2 tru

:D

:>

Haha, had a good laugh out loud over this.

also.

not sure whether to laugh at this or cry :|

Anyone know what map that is, our of curiosity? :D

Im pretty sure thats a Doom level

Yaah thought it was a doom map, had no idea which though

I'm pretty sure its the 4th level in doom 1. That bottom right maze area is in that level.

Would that be the one with an elevating stairs towards the end ? Cause I thought it was this one

It's E1M6 of Doom1.

Found it:
http://media.strategywiki.org/images/4/4b/Doom_map_e1m6.png

Ah, ya its the one I was thinking, forgot the level it was.

Yeah that one is epic. Halls of the Damned was a hell of a map too (pun intended).

Doom had the best named maps :D

Barrels o' fun
Dead Simple

D:

grosse

That's because syncerorr wanted to make quake into an esport, so the layouts of the maps had to be conducive to that.

What the hell are you talking about????

it was a reply to #4. The kind of maps that generally get played in ql now are cutscenes. I can only think of a couple maps built like a maze as seen in the first diagram and almost noone plays those, hence not popular with todays players.It's sad to see so many great assets from q1 and q2 being underutilized today.

that diagram applies to singleplayer
who the fuck spawned you into this world? you're such a mental midget

edit: "The kind of maps that generally get played in ql now are cutscenes."
i guess you're trolling.. still, my first remark stays. go away!

What sort of retard are you?

i don't think you understand

rofl fucking mong

thanks:D

Incredible

ahahha , awesome.

So true!

WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so good!

If you've played Deus Ex you'll get this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoFe8hRy42o

:D

<3

sad but true...

i blame consol games, and popularization of computer games overall :-<

yeah, a big part of it is the simple fact that most games atm are made for a different target audience

hah ... i love it, how older generations say younger generations got every corner padded with foam. I mean it is true, but still ...its funny how history repeats, no matter how bizzare the shape or form.

Exactly how I feel. Can't stand being an old grumpy man at heart but I mean we have to don't we?

we have to, so we remind younger generations that they are getting soft. :)

Except that line of reasoning doesn't work with computer games at all. The games of the 90s were significantly better and more difficult than the games of the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Best movie ever.

Just forwarded to all the console noobs in the office.

1:35 the guy getting first blood in cod has a DICK on his gamer card thing, hahahahahahah

That video is a retarded comparison.

Says the guy who thinks BF3 is "fucking awesome".

It is fucking awesome, problem?

nah, you're dumb

England*

bf3 rocks. need a tissue?

He is right though, comparing a frag movie to a stand/run only footage is not really the best way.

It is fucking awesome, you prick.

This video compares frag video footage to random S&D public idiot footage. You're a fucking retard.

Yep and the video was intended as a balanced, logical argument... man you totally blew a hole in that. Where is the intellectual integrity ffs???!

Alternatively, it's a fucking joke, man! Exaggeration for comic effect!

It's a video mocking CoD for being slow, boring and full of stupid little shits compared to the glorious Quake master race, yet the gametypes and players aren't even comparable.

Oh, wait, sorry..

u so funne

The serious point behind the video: relative to Quake, CoD is slower, campier and has a lower skill ceiling. In general, this also holds when comparing other old shooters with other modern shooters.

To illustrate this in a humorous way, the guy who made the video chose some particularly slow, campy, skilless CoD clips to set against awesome CPMA footage. This was not meant to be a fair comparison!

The guy knew he was preaching to the converted, and chose some exaggerated examples for comic effect, and as a shorthand way of communicating a point that he expected his intended viewers already to agree with.

This is a pretty common technique, and I'm surprised you seem not to have run into it before!

do you work for id? i see you defending ql a lot. Are you invested in it? or just blindly following behind with a genie in a bottle hoping for the best?

Haha. I'm tempted to play along with this, but knowing you, you probably genuinely suspect that I'm getting fat stacks of cash from id, or am actually SyncError's secret Australian cousin or something. So for the sake of not being a troll about this: no, of course I don't work for id, and I have no financial interest in it, aside from the sunk costs of a 1 year premium subscription that I wouldn't want to go to waste :))

But I just re-read the post you replied to, and I think you're reading a lot into it based on my 'history of sticking up for QL'. I didn't mention QL at all -- looking at that post in isolation, I could easily be a QW/CPMA fan who thinks QL is a piece of shit.

so you are adam's long lost cousin. I KNEW IT!!! Sound the alarm.... oh wait... noone cares...

but seriously....
http://trends.google.com/websites?q=quakelive...0&sa=N

http://www.google.com/trends?q=battlefield.co...amp;sort=1

haha yup :)

that was searches though, either way toggling websites makes it all the more real
http://trends.google.com/websites?q=battlefie...1&sa=N

But in regard to the 'blindly following...hoping for the best' thing, I'm not sure what you mean by that. I remember having a conversation with you a little while ago, where I thought I explained my philosophy on QL pretty clearly: if you have fun playing the game, relax and enjoy it while it lasts. If you don't enjoy the game, don't waste your time playing it or worrying about it.

yeah but what if ql was now taking resources from a doom 4 game? We saw how shitty rage was. I'd rather id work on one game at a time at this point, since they've proven they can't do both as both ql and rage are failures of epic proportion. If doom4 fails, id's last chance at redemption, then quake will cease to exist, so wouldn't you want to ensure doom 4 was successful?

Well I'm not sure about the 'resources' thing -- one of the most frequent complaints against QL is that there seems to be hardly anyone working on it. So I don't think QL's existence will have any significant impact on Doom 4.

If it really was one or the other, I'd probably choose to have id focus more resources on QL and really give it the best possible chance to succeed. At this point I'm not all that concerned about id's future, because I don't have a huge amount of confidence that they'll ever make a new game I really care about. If abandoning QL meant surviving to make an awesome Quake 5 Arena, sure, I'd take that, but it doesn't seem likely to me.

And the reason I can be a bit blase is that Quake will never 'cease to exist'. QL might, but then *hopefully* what is left of the community will settle on CPMA or QW or Warsow or something.

Ok. I only see one loophole though, and this is perhaps where we differ. I strongly believe , in order to save the genre, ql has to die, so there's enough people left to habitate q3 when they return. The longer ql stays alive, and it's population decreases, the fewer bodies are left over at the end of the day, and really, from what we've seen from id lately there's a strong likelyhood they'll just continue on with the same plan they're on. They probably only need a couple dozen people subscribing a year to keep a few servers alive. The devs may have to move on if they want to get paid, but the game itself will probably stay up, based mostly on how gung-ho todd seems to be about the game (something tells me he plays as much as yakumo on some alt account).

So ya, if it dies now, we'll have plenty of people to play with on q3 where the genre as a whole has a chance to survive with an influx of new maps, ideas, etc brought back from ql. I could see q3 thriving for a while after such an event. What say you?

I'm not convinced that an abrupt end to QL would be a good thing for Quake overall. If they turned off the servers today, sure, there would definitely be a core group that would move to Q3. But I don't know whether that core group would be any larger than the group that would otherwise stick with QL long-term. Those who will drop off gradually as QL putters along might be the same people who would switch to non-Quake games if QL were shut down today.

Even if the migration to Q3 were reasonably successful, the death of QL could easily be the death of major competitive Quake events (and yeah, I know you think that competitive Quake is pretty much already dead, but there are still a few awesome tournaments. Dreamhack + QCon is a lot better than nothing.)

If you do successfully move the community to Q3, where to from there? What will stop the decline in player numbers? I don't think we'd be in a better position than we were just before QL came onto the scene, and I think there's a fair chance that we would be in a worse position than if QL continued.

Without something really major to attract them, you'll probably see even fewer new players coming to Q3 than you would to QL. (For various reasons, fair or otherwise -- it's an even older game, with no company behind it and fewer reasons for mainstream websites to cover it it'll probably be even less visible to the average gamer, there would probably be fewer significant tournaments, it'll seem like a bigger deal to set up, don't forget Q3 still technically costs money, etc.)

Even if the migration to Q3 were reasonably successful, the death of QL could easily be the death of major competitive Quake events

A game doesn't need tournaments to survive, and Q3/QL players seem to be extremely restricted by tournament mentality. If people were to play what was fun, rather than just playing what tournaments were using, they would probably enjoy themselves a lot more.

Tournaments are supposed to happen because there is demand, not because a tournament should be expected.

I wasn't suggesting that no tournaments = death of game (and definitely not that no tournaments *should* lead to the death of the game), although I do think that a lack of major tournaments would have some negative effect on player numbers. But I value the major tournaments for their own sake, not just for their effect on player numbers. I enjoy following the competitive scene, and I would be sorry to see it die.

If you want tournaments to continue, they need to be a result of people playing the game, rather than a reason to play the game. If a short-term loss would result in a long-term gain, wouldn't it be worth it?

Look at the rest of my post, though! I'm not at all convinced that shutting down QL would lead to the 'long-term gain' you speak of.

I was mostly speaking hypothetically - if it had been done before it had gotten as bad as it is. At this point, nothing could possibly be done to save it.

But I guess maybe a more important question is: If the existence of QL is enough to cock-block Q3 from regaining a player base, and if you're right that id will keep QL running with only a tiny number of subscribers, what do you propose to do?

It seems like the only options are a) kill QL entirely, or b) make the most of what we've got, i.e. try to enjoy QL (or move on from Quake).

I can't see you achieving option (a) without doing something crazy and illegal. By talking QL down on ESR (and maybe other places, I'm not sure where else you post), surely the most you can do is lower the general mood a bit, and at most convince a few more players not to play, or not to subscribe. But you're not going to convince the remaining 2-dozen diehards to quit -- and unless I've misunderstood you, based on your arguments those die-hards are enough to keep QL alive and therefore preclude a Q3 revival.

It seems like the only options are a) kill QL entirely, or b) make the most of what we've got, i.e. try to enjoy QL (or move on from Quake).

If the decline in QL steadily continues (or Zenimax simply pulls the plug at any point), the game will eventually be shut down. The options are mostly between now, and later.

Maybe, but I was basing that post on ray's opinion that:

They probably only need a couple dozen people subscribing a year to keep a few servers alive. The devs may have to move on if they want to get paid, but the game itself will probably stay up

If this is true, then I think the 'eventual' shutdown could be postponed for a very long time. And I don't think that by telling everyone who will listen that QL sucks, you will have much influence on the last 'couple dozen' die-hard subscribers.

It's not true. They not only have to pay for servers, but also for the main page hosting, the database, and employee salaries. That's also if they had absolutely no new content at all, as each man hour costs them as much as an entire subscription.

Okay, tell that to ray though, not me :>
The post of mine that you quoted was basically a case of "You stated x; assuming for the sake of argument that x is true, where does that leave us?"

Your question was still valid, just in the wrong context of time.

My greater point was todd's apparent gung-ho attitude about quake and wanting it to survive "at any cost". Whether it's realistic is another question when it presents itself, but as i said based on his attitude, it wouldn't suprirse me one bit if he self funds the game all by himself, just for nostalgia sake (not developer salaries as he'd obviously let them go). because if you've seen his comments about quake live and his dreams of remaking q1 , etc ... you can tell the guy lives and breathes quake, which isn't a good thing in this situation as he's probably part of the reason his bosses are bleeding money since he's not thinking like a businessman, and more like a fan.

In other words, what me and you would do in this situation (shutting down ql so it stops bleeding money) is not necessarily what todd and sync will do.

also in regards to them having to pay for main page hosting, the database, and any bandwith incurred by those few thousand players. We're talking a few hundred dollars without salary fees. Hardly a dent in their pocket. The server costs however will be their undoing and they'll have no choice but to let a lot of them die, which is the trend anyways (singapore, argentina, warsaw #3, etc etc). In the end i could see only 6 or so staying up (maidenhead, va, tx, germany and perhaps warsaw or swedish servers).

My greater point was todd's apparent gung-ho attitude about quake and wanting it to survive "at any cost".

If he actually cared about the game, why has he done nothing for it? Either he cares about the game, and is actively supporting it right now (and he's just incompetent), or he doesn't care about the game, and knows how to give a convincing speech.

because if you've seen his comments about quake live and his dreams of remaking q1 , etc ... you can tell the guy lives and breathes quake, which isn't a good thing in this situation as he's probably part of the reason his bosses are bleeding money since he's not thinking like a businessman, and more like a fan.

Doom 3 was shitty, but at least not a commercial failure. Quake 4 was a total failure. ET:QW was a total failure. QL was a total failure. Rage was a total failure. If he is a "fan", he has absolutely no idea what makes a game any good, and no idea what makes any of the other Quakes any good.

In other words, what me and you would do in this situation (shutting down ql so it stops bleeding money) is not necessarily what todd and sync will do.

I wouldn't do that in his situation. I would have made sure that the game wasn't complete shit before releasing it. At this point, I'd resign, and look for a company that doesn't fail.

We're talking a few hundred dollars without salary fees.

Thousands, not hundreds. In the middle of a recession, with a major title that didn't sell well, an engine that won't be licensed, and rapidly decreasing players. That would be just to keep it alive with no upkeep or development, which would make people leave even more. The only reason to possibly keep it alive is for beta testing features of the engine, which they will likely be licensing anyway. If they don't, or if they can't find a buyer, they are royally boned.

Dont' get me wrong, i could care less at this point, i was just speaking for the quakers who want the genre to continue. Maybe they can try the things you just proposed. I guess ask them, then again i dont' know too many that care anymore either. Well good luck with either game.

p.s: have you tried any other games? or are you part of that very small minority of die hards who have never played anything but quake? Just wondering as that seems to be the situation for a few people i know who have played nothing but quake since the start and are totally oblivious to the trends in the gaming industry.

Yeah I've played a bunch of other games. I'm assuming we're talking about multiplayer FPS, in which case they're mostly relatively modern ones because for a long time I didn't have decent internet.

I enjoyed CS:Source (very casually) for quite a while, had a lot of fun with HL2DM, loved TF2 fairly briefly, tried BF2 and Bad Company 2 and had some fun but never really got heavily into them.

Warsow was my introduction to Quake-style arena shooters (I'd actually enjoyed Q3 much earlier, but that was in single-player and the occasional LAN against fellow ultra-noobs.). Having played a fair bit of Warsow and Quake (mostly QL, a little bit of CPMA and a tiny bit of QW), I find it hard to enjoy slower-paced shooters these days. They've also reduced my tolerance for input lag, unchangeable low FOV, crappy framerates (and I don't have a very powerful computer), lack of customisability, etc. So for me at the moment, as far as multiplayer shooters go, it's pretty much Quake/Warsow/maybe Nexuiz if I'm desperate, or nothing.

I appreciate the reasonable discussion, by the way. Looks like we can pretty much just agree to disagree on a few points.

I do have to ask though, if you've given up entirely on Quake, isn't it a waste of time to continue reading ESR and repeatedly posting about how QL sucks and is dying? When you explained that you thought it would be better for Quake in general if QL were to die quickly, it made sense that you would be campaigning against QL. Even if I disagreed with you, I could understand why from your perspective it was worthwhile. But if you don't care any more, what's the point? Isn't it just a waste of your time, and needlessly unpleasant towards those who do still want to make the most of QL?

Not talking about this discussion, which I found quite interesting, but you do seem to still be making quite a few sarcastic and negative posts (almost always rehashing something you've already said) around here.

and repeatedly posting about how QL sucks and is dying?

now that's not true... if i see someone, like a yakumo or a tritin trying to convince people to subscribe because a) playerbase is more active than ever, or 2) premium servers are always populated, i reply with my disagreement. Because, tahts' simply false advertising as far as i'm concerned. I have been just as positive about the game. However, with the last update, if we can even call it that, i pretty much decided this game wasn't going anywhere. How anyone can disagree at this point, after that fail of an update is beyond me. 3 months, and all we got was sync and city's maps. I'm just blatantly honest/blunt. My opinion, good or bad, all depends on the discussion at hand. I hope that answers your question.

lol, the irony

Point out something that's legitimately ironic there, please.

Well, I guess you would need it pointed out to you. "You're a fucking retard."

Pipe down and stop making arguments for the sake of it.

dunno, but it's cool :-)

I recognise cpma done by voo and could it be fallout 3 tenpenny tower music.

To be fair, the COD segments look like how the majority of people play CA in NA.

reminds me of one half life vs counterstrike video, it even had the same music. but i cant find it anymore...

Nice :)

A bit ironic that it used the q3 soundtrack for the "q1 is awesome part" :S

hahaha loved it, I stay away from modern fps' like they are the plague and for good reason too imo

I bought BF3 at the local supermarket (40 quid), it was fun for 5 hours then it gets boring. These games just dont have a competitive edge.

a poorly spent 40 quid :( even if I had a reason to see any of those new shooters I would just download it, bf3 or mw3 or whatever. They are all clones with different cutscenes!

I had to buy it to play online, which consists of staying in one place and shooting bits of enemies until you get a little message.

so much fun!

If that's how you were playing it I'm not surprised you didn't enjoy it. Quake would be shit if you played it like that too.

Well you're somehow forced to play that way... I like rush but for example in the Paris map if you're on the attacking team and have to plant on the cafes its really easy for the defending team just to spread across the different buildings around and can't really attack. The thing that amused me the most was to take the flanks and find 2 or 3 people all proning together and knife them. But as you get better it becomes less and less likely to do this.

And conquest pubs mostly make no sense with most of the team not capping flags etc...

It's just hit and miss depending on server, you'll sometimes get on teams with people who understand the gametypes and know what they're doing, or you'll get people who have downs syndrome.

Good attackers are so hard to stop though. The problems arise when people don't do as the name of the game suggests and they stop rushing and start standing still. On a map like Seine Crossing which you were describing, just pray some spastic doesn't take the vehicle and get it killed in 10 seconds.

what i hate the most about modern FPS games: they're all team oriented pub shooters (from CS to TF2 and the COD clones)

it's really disconnecting to play team games on pub servers where tons of people come and go. it's just unfun impersonal chaos.

where the fuck is dueling?

Dueling is harsh for newer players, wastes an entire server for 2 people, and needs far more specific balancing.

What does 'an entire server' mean in this context, though? You can have plenty of 'servers' running on one physical box, and unless I'm mistaken, the limitation is usually bandwidth rather than processing power. So 4 duel servers would be roughly equivalent to a single 8-man TDM server or whatever.

I don't have the actual numbers, but I doubt that an 8 player server is equal to 4 servers that have 2 players. Additionally, unless you want to completely get rid of spectating or waiting to play on duel servers, you're going to have more than 2 people, but they simply have to wait to play.

back in quake1 you could even use a 486 as dedicated server ...
and from server perspective not much changed since when ...
guess you can easily put 24 servers on a 6-core machine ...

play l4d2, it's zombie fodder and you don't give a shit weather you're playing with bots or actual people ( bots are better).

shit weather

It's kinda sunny outside.

I agree... I played TF2 for a few weeks on pubs and you rarely see the same players twice.

In duel you get a much better feel of other players skill level, and its a much more personal experience like you mentioned.

Do you visit the same servers?

Yeah, I just add the ones where I get the lowest ping to the Favorites tab.

Then you should try Competitive TF2, it is nothing like the pubs :p feels like Quake with Capture Points or NTF from CPM wich is based on the same name.s

Video example?

Nice videos, first time I've seen tf2 actually looking really nice and alot like quake.

It gets a bad rap for casual 32man servers, but it really is comparable in comp.

that's because you've never played anything but quake

Where did you find this misinformed information?

First one looks like pub play. Second one had some nice airshots.

P.S. There was actually somebody shooting with a sniper rifle while jumping.

First one was tournament footage.

yeah, just don't forget to buy at least 50$ worth of equipment and experience points and rings and hats if you want any chance at being semi competitive.

You can do the class achievements for 3 weapons per class (27 total weapons) in a few hours, at most. In that time, you will also be getting item drops, which you get about 10 per week. Additionally, due to scrap bankers, you can get any weapon you want for 1 scrap (2 weapons).

None of that really matters, though, as competitive TF2 is almost strictly vanilla weapons, as almost all of them are either sidegrades or downgrades.

how do I filter vanilla servers in the browser?

you get in a team and start playing 6v6 :p srsly try it out

Play on any 6v6 server, or join comp.

"It feels like Quake"

It's a matter of tastes I guess.
May I borrow that fleshlight of yours, now?

GOOD GOD, SO TRUE.

I also had a good laugh at the quote near the end by the way, sums up my thoughts about modern video games perfectly.

hahahahhahaahaa, <3 the end!!!!!!!

ahhaha loved it

Very true haha, nice video. It's very sad :(

mma support: https://twitter.com/#!/NikLentz/status/131742641112088576

indeed there isn't many games left nowadays that feels like what games once were like.

true :D

Aldi Süd was by far the funniest.

hahaha, very nice. and so true, unfortunately. nice work :)

!!!

I loled :D

I'm looking forward to the day when I show my kids doom, quake and cpm.

as someone said it's missing the retard fov. I just ran metro 2033 which is probablly the most graphically stuning game I've ever seen btw. it just happens to use fov 45. FOURTY. FIVE. with scope it's like, 15. so for the first time since I started playing videogames I started feeling slightly nausiated. fuck you consoles. fuck you in hell.

yeah halo 3 is the same way, i couldnt play specifically for that reason

also

It always happens to me when i use someone's else computer i find the mouse sens high as fuck

that's true for most people here I imagine. the point tho is the lack of proper sens options. you get a slider bar where the lowest setting is still high and huge steps so there's no chance in hell to set your sens correctly unless you're lucky and the game has a modifiable cfg file.

I use 450 dpi on my abyssus and the standard sens was still too high in bf3 :X

Now I know why most of them can't hit shit while you are running :DDDD

Yeah this is so true, it's why I get totally raged when I watch my team standing still and not push forward in rush. The average BF3 player falls apart with 2 people running at them, and so often you can run straight at a bomb site by yourself with no problem. These retards who stand still and hide behind rocks and shit for minutes at a time make themselves easy targets for these 5cm/360 30 bullet spray per kill players.

I find it very true indeed. In almost every game I play the slider won't have low enough sens.

Imagine how would playing with such high sens + 5000 DPI laser mouse full of shining lights

It should be "Control Stick Sensitivity" :(

Amen!

nobody would care

if only you thought that every time before posting

why, its i that dont care about any of you, quakelive, or quake in general, or pro gamers that cant handle nothing outside of a duel, or pro gamers that cant play a game without picmip, brightskins and gamma on 10

what about

quake, its shit

No one would care about Q43A neither, because that's shit.

quake is serious business!!!

Says the guy who played 8 hours a day but realized he was shit and would never be a progamer, so now he hates against it and plays BF3.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kpv2bRT7-w

just lol dude. You chose a biased cod vs bf3 comparison video to disprove my point? Anyone who watches that video will realize the guy talking is nothing more than a troll. Lol wut do i do, wut do i do. The guy is an idiot haha. Even noobs can figure it out. Nice try though.

It's almost as bad as this piece of propaganda by sharpe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhcmhyVjvrc

You're both trolls in that respect

I've seen gameplay by good teams. It's as dull compared to Quake. Even if both players on both games on those videos where the worst players in the world, it still displays the terribly boring walking speed.
Enjoy your slow pieces of shit games.

You're naive in every sense of the word. Try playing something other than quake once in a while. You might get a more realistic point of view then. As it stands now, it's just a narrow minded biased viewpoint which holds no water. You really have no idea.

Realistic as walking around in huge open areas and calling it fun.

You have to actually be good at quake to appreciate how hard it is. Being shit at it is like playing your first game of chess, and thinking its boring as fuck and then going to play checkers because its easier and more fun since you understand it more and can actually win.

enjoy your checkers (bf2/cod etc)

leave quake to the big boys.

using cheats doens't make you a big boy celestial

lol, you and your ways, how many "cheaters" who reside in the US have you busted? :o

1. idontplaywell
2. sasukefreedom
3. tommeh
4. velcor
5. spicybabe
6. prodigyzyn
7. the 6 guys who cheated in the same game last march

Need more? i'd have to look them up. But i do consider it having been a waste of time. Making an alt account is so beyond easy that anyone, who gets banned, can just rinse/repeat so i don't even care/bother anymore. If they want to cheat, and if id isn't going to do anything about it, then fuck it.

This is awesome. It's funny to see how one of the first LAN console games"Halo" changed so dramatically from 1 to 3. No game developers can be trusted!

look at the number of views this is getting, now if one 10th of that would watch dreamhack etc.. ;)

Get it played at dreamhack? :D

pointless bump but just want to vent my frustration that this movie, as 'good' as it is, gets far more views than all quake live frag movies probably combined :(