They are this "good".

I dodge like this according to my opponents. I think the key is to aim with your mouse, and to avoid 'strafe aim', contrary to what a lot of people recommend. Then you're free to move like you want and you can focus more on annoying random patterns.

'Strafe aim' can be very effective indeed but it kinda force you to move in a very predictable way, or else, well, your crosshair isn't on the enemy model.

I think I developed this skill precisely because my LG was far from good at the beginning, so that was my only chance to win a 1v1 vs a good opponent. I'm talking about 1v1 CA btw, in duel my dodge is often pretty weak unfortunately (more parameters to handle simultaneously, some positions are just hopeless, etc.)

Oh, also: zoom, of course.

Nearly everyone I see that gives out lg advice says strafe aim, then I need to smack them on their heads and say they are retarded.

eh.. it's still good to know strafe shafting, finishing off an opponent or whatever.

when I started out with ql i didn't even know that and shot 15-20 % lg for the first year, I would have been very happy if someone told me about that

Strafe aim is only useful if the other guy isn't fighting back, and then it still dictates what you have to do while hitting the guy.

Using the other method is always preferable. Of course, if you can't aim you don't have a choice, but it is not the best method.

what about revers strafe aim?

Aim strafe?

strafe aiming is good when you're in the process of switching directions in your dodge. i tend to start off moving to my right and moving my mouse to my left, and when i start strafing to my left, i just dont move the crosshair at all, and vice versa depending on which direction i am moving.

even just for that split second when you arent sweeping your mouse at all, if your crosshair is where it should be, you're likely to hit way more LG, and it's not hard to restart your dodge instantly.

The mixture of strafe- and mouse-aim is what you basically need - and a lot of practice ofc.

Sensitivity is entirely a personal thing; many people claim that you should lower your sens, but I hit better accuracies (usually between 30-40 %; in duel, around 30-32 in general, closer to 40 -or even more- in FFA) with higher sens, without zoom.

If you can aim fine with your mouse then there is no need to use strafe aiming, other than for correcting. The rest of the time you should be moving and dodging.

Yes sensitivity is complete preference.

My experience is that in case of certain enemy dodge-patterns (or horizontal jump pads), strafe-aiming can come quite handy.

Long story short; you should master them both - or at least acquire a somewhat "good" level.

there are so many situations were using mostly strafe aim is the better choice, it comes to whatever situation/enemy stack/weapons/etc. you are in.

using strafe aim vs someone with a lg lock on you is a bad idea, but atleast in team modes (i rarely duel) a lot of times finishing someone off quickly is the best solution.

I don't see any situation where it is the better choice, if you hit the same accuracies with the two different methods. If the only way that you can hit lg is using strafe aim, then obviously that is what you need to use. It's just not the correct, best way to do it.

i disagree, i believe good positioning and strafe aim are sometimes simply superior. if you are this good with mouse aim that it becomes the 'correct choice' at all times then go ahead of course. makes me wonder though as i rarely see someone being able to do that.

i try to avoid having to do difficult shots when there is no need to, i'd rather set up something that's easy to play out for me. you just have to realize when you are making yourself a target and avoid those situations/get out of them quickly.

in my experience there are situations where, for example, circle strafing around someone with mg/lg delivers high accuracies without exposing yourself too much. that's probably different in duel though :d

It depends on the situation. If you have equal stacks, same weapons, and no positional advantage, then strafe aiming makes you an easy target. But if your opponent is in a bad position, or at a disadvantage with weapons/health/armor, then strafe aiming is a great technique for maximizing damage consistently. One aspect of the "mental" game is Quake is demonstrating to your enemy how consistently you deal damage in particular situations. This makes them avoid those situations and this helps in maintaining control.

Agree with this, strafe aiming definitely has its' advantages at certain times. In the correct position and catching your enemy off guard it's easier to hit 60-70 lg lock on with strafe aiming than still trying to dodge and use mouse aim

Hmm, suggestions to counter them, obviously.

Well, zoom (still) and, dunno, low sens? Always works with LG.

I doubt cooller (best dodges ever + strong LG) would win against strenx (very average dodges + very strong LG) in a 1v1 CA, if you get the idea.

Cooller will win 1v1 CA even purely on item control.

Cooller.

U sir, made my day. You deserve an internet medal.

Strenx has the best LG but as far as I know he doesn't use any zoom script shit

He does zoom a lot nowadays. Maybe 60-70 FOV.

zoom with a key or with a script? how do you know? got cfg?

he zooms with space, no script, cg_zoomsensitivity 1

that sounds annoying (pressinc space while dodgin and aiming)

I just find zoom while aiming really annoying, I can't get a perspective because 60-70 is too close. It's so anoying tring to guess rocket trajectories. I eat them all

it's really not as annoying as it sounds to be honest.

unless you have binds that need to be hit with your left thumb aside from zoom.

It's not annoying but you need to learn how to dodge while zooming and know the map by heart (otherwise you dodge into the wall).

What script btw?

Cypher outshafted strenx alot... Strenx himself said that cyphers dodging in hard to shaft and that he hits a lot back, tox said the same. Pretty much every top player agrees that cypher has the best dmg output. you cant do that without amazing dodging i guess.

dodging is overrated honestly. its only good up til mediocre+ level, when u play against someone who can still put a 40+ on u, ur dodging is just about useless.

think it was yesterday i was about 50/50 shaft against heartless, later i played gizmoinaction and got 10-0 2 maps (10-6 as best i think). i could just feel how my movement was nullified by gizmo

That talks about your and heartless intelligence abilities :p

elaborate plz

that's the stupidest non-troll intended post ever.. Don't call it overrated just cuz u can't do it properly.

dont think u ever played against super shaft if u dont believe me :D ive dodged many different shafts, but when played against gizmo i couldnt. sure, there were some rounds he didnt put load on me but i judge from average

you're proof esr trolls generally suck at ql

as a cheater u must understand what happens to movement when hit by shaft thats strong enough to cause any significant knockback :D

as an esr troll, u must suck at quake ^^

mybe he combines his movement with the mouse movement, don't know whitch way, against or with the dodge move ... i do circles by pressing in a row clockwise, if you do that i guess u have to aim against the clockwise movement

uhm, tox lg>strenx lgm duh

nah, but tox is much better at dodging.

Yeh, if he becomes toxinator. Then, he just hits everything.

"nah"


ihm, ok

strenx's dodge in ca, as we saw on his stream, is awesome. specially in lg battles. ur right perhaps in some duel situations, when (as u can see in videos of him vs good dodgers/roxers like cooller or cypher) he's doing lg vs rox and he's like bunnyhoppin' infight as dodge, which is the worst. but that may also partly be cuz he gets bounced around. anyway, overall, i'd say his dodge in duel can be bad at times vs good players, but in 1v1 ca and specially lg battles, his dodge is as good as his aim (mainly because the 2 are connected for him, alot of his aim relies on his movement and prediction)

Cooller will for sure.

what about people jumping and ducking while shooting?
its sometimes useful..
can i bind / use a script to jump and duck with one button?

Gonnae no dae that?

How?

Just... Gonnae no.

makes you smaller by a 1/3 but it decreases acceleration at the same factor iirc

dont jump, knockback will fuck you

get superior stack, just do strafe lg -> win

Get superior stack against tox, just do strafe lg -> stack almost useless.

ok so im like 200/200, and hes like 100/50...

we fight... he hits 50 lg... that means he needs 5,71 seconds to take me down... i hit only 30 lg countering his movements -> i win 2 seconds earlier... fuck it: im uber bad at lg and i hit only 20 percent... still win...


brain>aim, thats why hes only decent... and his gamestyle is ugly

His gamestyle is awesome :'(

personal opinion.

imo hes gay

erhh toxic is brain and aim.

in your world maybe

stop embarassing yourself...

embarassing because im right? that would be strange

Well mainly because your wrong and absolutely adamant that you're right.

And im wrong because?

I would like to remind you started this nonsens conversation, and when i proved how much wrong you are with simple math, you started some personal bullcrap vendetta.

The math was uncalled for but I was talking about you saying that toxic doesn't play intelligently.

that i did not say: his gamestyle is perfect example of using own strong sides...

but hes not as creative and smart player as rapha, cooller, cypher, av3k, agent + many more

His early Q3 and Q4 careers say otherwise but whatever, nobody was really as creative at that high a level as fox, noctis and rapha.

remind me what did he won in q3 duel?

both wikipedia and esportsearnings.com dont show any special results...

he dominated one game, that simply matched his strong sides

nope he didn't win but he lost with style, but Q4 slowly morphed into something that didn't suit him at all aka 1.4.

yeah ID nerfed lg, and suddenly he wasnt winning all :-D

erh he was winning again iirc.

he hits 99.999999% lg

you won't hit more than 20% against him

to keep it short: ql nick, small dick

How would you be able to get that stack advantage if you can't engage in fights until you have ~200/200?

spam.

lets not forget he may simply lack lg due to initial spawn

Yeah, but quake duels are not decided by initial spawn...

nice joke...

they are mostly

Yeah lack LG and hit 9000 rails..Can't tell which is worse honestly..

depends on map.

on ztn not having lg means u prolly dont have rg aswell

on t7 its different[most balanced map ever]

on dm13 you dont have rail at all

Man tox is not known only for LG and RG.. His rockets and plasma are not mentioned because LG overshines them but he's sick with both..

do you ppl even read what i post?

ok, hes awesome aimer... Then why hes not using plamsa all the time? Because diff weapons got diff purpose... now, watch out, this will make your duel skills better: lg is better than rockets midrange, so having a lg vs rl, on a eg ztn is almost free second RA... and you have time to get rockets before mh...

:S

He would rape you

where did i say he would not? rauvz started bullcrap conversation by mentioning his wank idol

i find funny all these dodge/shoot lg topics... after dunno how many years most of ppl still dont know that in ql stack > aim, dodge whatever crap you can think off

My idol is fox.

brain>aim

OK, I accept the premise. Brain>aim, ergo you suck because you're stupid, ergo why should I believe you that brain>aim?

i suck because i didnt play this game for 10 years, and when i did it was rarely :-)

try again, but think before you do... Real life is not cpm

yea I'm sure you'd have been top level if you "tried to" or "played all the time for 10 years".

that i did not say, but i surely would be better than atm :-)

So what if you didn't play it for 10 years? I thought brain>aim.

yes, i was sure you wouldnt understand

to play properly you need to have certain amount of experiance to simply know how to react...

you cant solve math equation without basics of math

anyone got the most updated strenx cfg? I just cand understand how he zooms while lg'in, you just can't see where the rockets are going to explode due low fov.

I suppose after playing like that for years, you kinda get used to estimating where the rockets are gonna be with that fov.

he does that zooming on space like forever: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S77MJg-v4sY

Really I don't know what a "zoom script" is supposed to do. I have a different zoomfov on my LG than other weapons, which allows me to hit my zoom button to increase my LG accuracy in long distance shaft battles. It's recommended.

whats ur regular fov and then zoomfov for the lg? do you press a key all the time or it's toggle? I just don't get how that is usefull since you can't see the rocket trajectory when they shot you, you can't see where they are going to explode in the floor.

The key is to use a somewhat high zoomfov like 70 or 80 for lg/mg to still be able to dodge around decently. For rail you'll most likely be using a lower zoomfov to hit more distant enemies and since you won't be using the zoom for close combats. The same can be said about rockets, plasma and shotgun.

Like always in QL there's no right or wrong since it's all about what works best for you. I for example should be using zoomtoggle since it actually let's me focus on not zooming instead of holding down shift. Problem is I that i never tried hard enough to get used to toggling that zoom and for the last years i just can't be arsed to.

Not sure if I'm overdoing it but here goes an example:

cg_fov 100

bind x "weapon 5;cg_zoomfov 70" // rocket launcher
bind y "weapon 6;cg_zoomfov 80" // shaft
bind q "weapon 7;cg_zoomfov 55" // rail
and so on...

bind shift +zoom

I guess the fun part with QL as a game is that you can still be somewhat good even if you lack skill in some area. If you're lacking aim you can use good positioning or good item timing instead. If you can't seem to keep track of the items you can do decent with just aim. Some people are not very good at either but still manage to adapt to someone's gamestyle very quickly and can be succesfull that way. I think you can extend these areas to whatever skill level you're playing on - to a certain extent. I guess that makes the game quite interesting and rewarding for everyone and is one of the reason I've been playing this on and off since Q3 first came out.

/random rant

You can see trajectory and dodge almost as well as without zoom. You just need to learn it and learn the map better so you know where you can dodge and where rocket will explode without looking.
When I need to be very cautious about geting splashed or geometry is complicated (like t7 top mh area) I just don't zoom.
Keep in mind learning it took me some time. I use zoomfov 60 for everything. I don't use toggle and bind it at space. Thumb is strong and I can move freely without it. It's faster without toggle, you can for example make quick zoom+rail.

I've been using zoomfov for LG (just like strenx and tox do, spacebar) for about a year and I still eat every single rocket.

btw I agree that it is extremely comfortable; probably the only decent part of my cfg. RG = 45 fov, LG = 63 (or something. Stolen from tox), same key.

hmm that's strange. It used to be like this when I started (I made this up myself btw later heard about strenx/tox) but then I learned how to dodge. Ofc only long/mid range rockets.
Maybe try practicing it specifically - concentrate on predicting the trajectory and geometry in this place? I think I was concentrating on dodging while zooming at one point.
This custom has some drawbacks in tdm/team games unfortunatelly - you need to limit it to some extent.

And if you still can't... well maybe instead you have better eyes than me and it would be more benficial for you to lg without zoom :-)

Regular zoomfov is 45 and shaft is 65. I just +space to enable it.

It's not a lot of zoom, but it does give me a bit extra accuracy at long distance shafting, and it isn't so much that I cannot see rockets.

i think the "zoom script" is a script floating around that zooms in or lowers your sens when you hold +attack on certain weapons

sounds like different cg_zoomsensitivities on each weapon

it changes your fov or whatever command while you're firing and then reverts back when you release attack

So anyone care to post script itself?

I've seen it here and on ql forums. I don't see how can it be any better than zoom on space.

Space is for jumping!

I switched purely because of rocketjumps. When I run jk2 once in a while it comes back and I can only jump on space (and crouch on c) I haven't played it for 3 years but these customs are still strong :)

Can anyone explain me what cypher and rapha are doing on their latest (I think) cfgs from the DHS 2012?

There is lot of shit about zoom, fovs and whatever... I just can't make sense out of it.
http://trance.gg/Quake-demos/DHS12/Cfg/rapha.cfg
http://trance.gg/Quake-demos/DHS12/Cfg/cypher.cfg

q3 artifacts

What do you mean? afaik the "weapon1" stuff is QL only.

Aliases arent ql only. Those are just remainders from whatever q3 config they used to build up theirs.

If nothing of that is being used then their cfgs are full of shit. I thought they would take more care of it.

why? they pwn at quake, who cares how their configs look.

focus on game rather than random outside stuff is one key to success

Actually they are also remnants of other peoples QL configs, namely fox and noctis.

Im testing rapha and strenx cfg on wmo...


How can strenx even move? his sens is 1 and 0 accel. It's unplayable. But on his stream his movement seems like a pretty high accel player. He says something about how the Kinzu has accel on its own. How does that work? sounds a bit dodgy.

Then I tried the Rapha cfg. He supossedly uses wmo too. I find it extremely fast. He uses

sens 5.5
seta cl_mouseAccel ".48"
and m_accel ".1"

(not sure about what m_accel does?)

This plays like really fast for me. How can he even aim? It seems like he doenst even have +zoom binded

I tried both some years ago. Strenx loses close range RL fights because of it, and rapha's sens is sexy.

But its crazy high for me. I dont know how he can keep the crosshair inside his enemy. Strenx LG is unmatched so far.

Rapha has crazy flick rails tho.

strenx uses kinzu + drivers. there's a ridiculous amount of accel.

I don't believe strenx uses a wmo, I think he uses a kinzu@800dpi. Someone mentioned a little while back that his sens is around 55cm/360 (maybe he said it himself on a stream, can't remember). For rapha, if you see how he's playing/moving the mouse it's easy to see how he's got such good control.

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT927Yn-iVM strenx~1:30, rapha~1:40

looks like rapha finally realized playing with model gun on is stupid

q: What is the best way to go about if you use different fovs per weapon and you want to maintain exactly the same feel/scale (whatever you call this) sens and accel values wise?

Yes, i'd like to know as well :C

cg_zoomsensitivity 1
It isn't the same because it can't be but it's as close as possible in small proximity of the crosshair
Dunno about accel.

I dont mean zoom, i mean having cg_fov different values binded to weapons

You can't have exactly the same "feel/scale" with different fovs. You want to use your muscle memory from one sens to another but it won't work. The best you can get is similiar sens in very close proximity to the crosshair but it will still feel different.

Cba to think about exact formula but you can test it with zoom and cg_zoomsensitivity 1 - it sets your sens the way I explained before so set cg_zoomfov to whatever new fov you want and see if it feels the same.

don't change sens, sens and fov are independent of each other, it's just 'feel' and that's something for you to decide :d

I don't think you are moving the same space physically in the real world at fov 110 compared to fov 90 if you are using the same sens and accel values. I want 1:1 feel for both. There needs to be a way.

afaik sens is measured in degrees, hence it should be the same amount of degrees-per-inch moved no matter the amount of fov visible? that would also explain the different feel quite well.

you could do a simple rule of three though, but i don't think that's accurate or 1:1 or anything like that :/

I've learned there is an algorithm that you can use.

what is this magical lg zoomscript I always see ppl talk about...

didn't noctis use to have one in his config?

try www.ncts.at for his cfg

idd it does, i'll check it out ty!

wow, what does it all mean?

averything about lg is in genes so..don't bother with it if you can't hit shit..use rockets..

It isnt, my lg sucked for a few years now i very rarely get outshafted. I aint tox level but good enough.

Okey anon. :)

why does the front page of esr keep getting messed up?

lol what happened

LG and dodging is my strenx.

I can give you some tips if you want.

add me as friend at quakelive.com.

post mouse settings

razer abyssus
3500dpi
1000hz
no accel
sensitivity 0.4, ~29-30cm/360°

weird

lol at you..as always