I don't know if you guys heard, but here in Washington state, we just legalized weed.

Does this mean you will post more often from now on?

well, the fact that weed is now legal in Washington is true, just take a look at what he's saying :)

drugs are bad son. im the living example

weed is a sacred plant, obviously you can misuse it like anything, even water, but thats not a problem of weed but the user.

The USA constitution is written on hemp paper, the founding fathers encouraged citizens to plant it, many of them smoked it, its a sacred plant for India since eons, women used it to relieve pain of menstrual cycles in the middle ages, it helps to open the third eye, weed oil cures cancer, etcetcetc.

see the documentary "The union: the business behind getting high" to learn why it went illegal because of corporate profits ofc (dupont, medical mafia, etc)

Rofl yes, go watch some documentaries by potheads, this will enlighten you, good advice.

420 for lyf blaze it nerd

hehehe

It's a fucking good documentary though, a lot of interesting points for a non-smoker. It's somewhat a wake up call that makes you realize that the government and other authorities are not to be trusted (in alot of other aspects aswell) and very often have other agendas than what you might think.

Might sound like a foilhead, but it is very interesting for an open minded person.

Edit: Changed "alot" to "a lot" inb4 "A lot is Two Words".

so you are pro weed (a drug) and against getting education (you said that on another thread)?

Really wicked.

whats a drug bro? haha youre the one lacking education!!!! alcohol and cigaretes are real killers yet theyre "legal". hahah the corrupted form of education you love so much really rotted your brains.

alcohol and cigarettes doesn't change your brain or your personality... they doesn't make you an amoeba, unless you take them in a quantity that ruins your entire body; but still they doesn't act like cannabis does

wattttttt? LMAO. It has been conclusively proven that nicotine changes you brain structure cause it creates physical dependence (the type of dependence thats very hard to overcome), something that cannabis doesnt, cannabis can create psychological dependence if youre already weak minded, but anyway anything can become an issue for weak minded people. Nicotine is one of the hardest legal drugs to stop once youre hooked, and even when people succeed at stopping, theyre way more anxious and nervous for the rest of their life. Nicotine also interferes with cellular apoteosis, making defective cells that would otherwise self destruct to continue multiplying, what sooner or later ends in cancer. THC, on the contrary to nicotine, induces cellular apoteosis, so that if a cell becomes defective it has more chances to self destruct if theres thc in your system.

Its proved that alcohol destroys the liver, and while on its effects most people become violent. Cannabis doesnt, it makes people more relaxed and less violent. I suppose you agree were living on a highly violent society, and well alcohol isnt helping a bit on that issue, but its "legal" huh.

I find really funny that two of the proven most dangerous substances like alcohol and nicotine are "legal" but thc, a known anticancer substance, isnt. Whats legal or illegal in this society is very arbitrary, its not based on the substance properties but interests and misinformation.

Im stopping right now in this thread cause most people is so misinformed on these topics that i really doesnt want to spend energy replying nonsense after nonsense, each to their own. Have a nice day all and take care!

(note about the graph, cannabis physical harm is based on smoking that obviously creates health issues [but as you can see less than smoking tobacco] and if you consume it in other way like edibles or tinctures, the physical harm becomes negligible )

fuck me, I actually agree with with you

shit happens bro ;)

it's a christmas miracle

kind of a useless graph, how much is used of the substance?

it says Ecstacy does less Phsyical Harm, than for example Tobacco or Alcohol, but I doubt one cigarette would do more harm than a pill. I'm not even sure if a night of drinking would be less healthy than some E at one night.

prolly a good enough dose of each substance to get high, obv its not math where 2+2=4, anyway its e, alcohol and tobacco are pretty close harm wise, ecstasy has much lower dependence tho.

"something that cannabis doesnt"
This is a lie; Tetrahydrocannabinol (Marijuana) develops psychological dependace, chimically.

(quoting myself) "cannabis can create psychological dependence if youre already weak minded"

(your reply) "develops psychological dependace, chimically."

learn to read much? *You* better not smoke bro :D

I don't even know where these books are, actually; probably down in the cellar, under some bookpillar; i don't intend it as an excuse, anyway; it's just that i don't care to post proofs that are already common knowledge of the last 40 years of medicine or so, and are easily findable with a rapid search; just because i already have seen peoples (drug dealers, abusers, or just simphatyzers, dunno) denying the evidence of the facts and claiming that "researchs are biased by moralistic governments, you don't have seen cannabis drug addicts, they must have been fine, they must have been alcohol addicts", and so on.....
I'm not referring to someone in particular;
just feel free to ruin your body and your psyche with wathever you prefer; it's your choice to refuse the reality and to deny it, but affirming false things you'll just contribute to someone else's malaise; doing it consciously or not.

i work in hospital at the psychiatry in the locked ward and i can tell that to much of everything can kill your brain.

I don't care about the pro or against weed discussion. Who am I to decide on people's choices and prohibitions anyway.

What I want to know about is why you don't believe in education. On another thread you said you are against education, that the educational system is overrated and now you say "the corrupted form education you love so much really rotted your brains", and I think you know education is one of the basis of how human society works since its very existence.

- How do you do it to earn money and live then, or rather what's your profession if you don't believe in education? Did you win the lottery or something?
- Are you jamerio-like being highly opinionated on the subject though he didn't finish high school?
- Do your kids go to school? Have you tried militia?

I believe so much in education that i love learning and reading, ofc you need some formal education to start, writing, languages, math, etc. What i seriously dislike is people that believe that knowledge and wisdom can only come from an academic system full of douches that doesnt wants their paradigms to change, cause theyre full of ego, which "expert" wants to be proven wrong? Another interesting topic is that there are lots of interests on research, do you seriously believe that for example a laboratory is going to spend money on someone who discovers a cure for something the laboratory has a pill that milks money from patients forever cause they dont cure???? The medicine nobel prize winner Richard J. Roberts said it best "Many 'chronic' illnesses have cure, and laboratories know them, but their not good business for them".

Most people doesnt search truth, and for me, truth is the only thing that matters. You never know where you will find it, you just have to keep searching and learning, since my early 20's im a self taught and guess what, i work 6 hours from monday to friday and i make enough to keep my wife and daughter with a quality of life that many friend that went the academic route dont have, while also having enough time to continue learning, free from people that dictates what book i should read or what topic i can research.

It requires a special mindset to life the veil and realize the system we live in is rotten to the core, sadly theres not enough people aware yet to change it, but were working on it, and sooner or later we will succeed.

The great Jiddu Krishnamurti said it best in just 5 words "Truth is a Pathless Land".

Without an "academic" background on a particular subject it's impossible to have an opinion on it. That's why I find funny that you post so much about medicine when you just posted you didn't go through the "academic route". It's the journalists problem but worse.

Your entitled to your close minded opinion.

Would you trust an electrician's word about medicine? Would you take his advice or diagnosis seriously? Of course not, and that applies directly to you when talking about medicine and that everything is a conspiracy. It's not like anyone can learn over the interwebz a profession's specialty that takes 10 years total of complete dedication.

Have you noticed that so far you have not posted a single serious research quote on any subject whatsoever (not just this one)? Not a press release or graph but the actual thing, made by competent and neutral researchers, quoting exact parts (lets say page 67) and so on; and that requires being able to understand it in first place and being able to compare information (it's not like you are cannabis specialist doctor by reading a 20pages paper).

I know it will sound elitist, though it isn't by any means whatsoever nowadays that 99.9% of people keeps studying after high school, but it really shows when someone has no uni background no matter how much he earns.
It's a whole different level but that's the argumentation/medicine/etc. standard; for example that's why we find jamerio's business sites funny and unprofessional but he doesn't get the dozens of crucial mistakes they have. Same goes to when we read what you write here: it's full of argumentation and scientific method mistakes, and that's before considering the actual subject itself.

I will open your academic mind to just 3 notable autodidacts in history:

Leonardo Da Vinci (prolly the smartest person to ever live on earth)
Howard Phillips Lovecraft
And for the last one i chose one that left a good quote for academic apologists like you:
Frank Zappa "Drop out of school before your mind rots from exposure to our mediocre educational system. Forget about the Senior Prom and go to the library and educate yourself if you've got any guts. Some of you like Pep rallies and plastic robots who tell you what to read."

Today you dont even need to go to the library, we have the master library/forum/etc thats called Internet. But im sure you megaman3 are way smarter than those 3 cause youre uni level.

Srsly LMAO@megaman3

Yet as i said earlier your entitled to your misinformed opinions, thats one of the traits of smart people, we feel compassion for people like you, not hate, which is a lower emotion reserved for dogma dominated mindsets.

I would reply to this but #76 completely proves my point. That post is filled with obvious mistakes it's like reading a 15 year old arguing.

And as I wrote, most people go to uni so the one that's below is you, not me being on top.

Im bellow and so is Leonardo, Lovecraft and Zappa cause they didnt went to uni. Anyone that went to uni is on top. Talk about stubbornness.

Not to forget "The wizard of Merlo Park" Thomas Alva Edison: in school, the young Edison's mind often wandered, and his teacher, the Reverend Engle, was overheard calling him "addled". This ended Edison's three months of official schooling. Edison recalled later, "My mother was the making of me. She was so true, so sure of me; and I felt I had something to live for, someone I must not disappoint." His mother taught him at home.

Edison is the fourth most prolific inventor in history, holding 1,093 US patents in his name, as well as many patents in the United Kingdom, France, and Germany. He is credited with numerous inventions that contributed to mass communication and, in particular, telecommunications. These included a stock ticker, a mechanical vote recorder, a battery for an electric car, electrical power, recorded music and motion pictures."

Oh but he didnt went to uni so according to megaman3 Edison is bellow him also :D

The aware mind will realize exactly the opposite of what megaman3 says, hes so wrong its not even funny, just seeing that two of the greatest inventors of all time (Da Vinci and Edison) where autodidacts is enough to realize the importance of a free mind, one thats not confined to the stuborn world of a set of books chosen by people with egoistic and monetary interests.

I will now leave here a great quote of the book "Earth Forbidden Secrets" by Max Igan which i highly recommend:

" Academia decrees that only people with Degrees and Doctorates are permitted to practice science and they have two very important and quite simple filters in place to ensure that independent research is suppressed: One; Credentials; and Two; Peer Review; because no matter what your evidence or theories are, nothing gets past peer review, but you cannot receive peer review without first having credentials but of course in order to get credentials you need to tow the party line and embrace the accepted theories or you simply won’t get your degree in the first place. So what do you do? Remember Catch 22? It’s actually quite brilliant in its simplicity – in some scary way.

Again this is a ridiculous and extraordinarily unscientific approach to science because science is something that anyone can study and learn. All that is needed is for one to possess a keen and analytical mind. A person does not need a degree to educate oneself or record facts, or to conduct experiments, observe their outcomes and think about them in a critical way. In a truly free and open society where the pursuit of true knowledge is nurtured, science, by its very basic fabric, needs to be part of the free democratic process and all theories examined. Science was never designed to be an ‘elitist club’ presided over by closed minds. Such behavior is truly irresponsible and can only ever serve as a hindrance to legitimate research and the genuine pursuit of real truths. Science cannot properly function as an Authoritarian Regime. "

<333

you really don't get it, do you. All your examples are very much flawed, without needing to google, and that logic is as well.

but there's no use arguing with a paranoid electrician from one of the smallest countries in the world, is it.

My logic of giving clear examples of bright people that didnt went to uni is flawed, but yours "he who doesnt goes to uni is bellow he who goes, no mather what" is brilliant logic right? Keep the hate coming, will make you feel better, deep inside you know youre wrong. You said no need to reply, you dont get it, bla bla hahahah.

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)

does your daughter go to school, you know the institution you have a personal issue with?

is she aware you are into drugs?

how much will you charge me for cleaning up my car?

She goes to one of the best schools from Montevideo, she's only 7 and plays the piano we have in our house pretty well cause at 4 years she started the "estrellita" International Yamaha music school course for kids. I also studied piano when kid and play it with her, i play mostly classical, my favourite being Mozart, mostly Sonatas and Fantasies, some Beethoven too like Moonlight and one of my all time favourites "Waldstain", or the infamous tocatta and fuge from Bach. Music is very important to do as a kid to develop both hemispheres.

She also is a scout since shes 5, has gone to two camps already, to learn things that school or uni doesnt teach. She goes to a dance school, some days ago she danced in the final show of the school in a theatre with 500+ spectators and was the best from the group. She can read in a way that all adults cant believe and become shocked. I could continue but sadly as she isnt uni level yet and me neither, so were "bellow" megaman3. Cause you know education only can come from uni. uni uni uni makes people so smart, with such open minded thinking, like megamen3 the stubborn troll.

I would gladly clean your car if i was unemployed, because all work is good work. Only jerks think otherwise.

Just to note.. I don't think having gone to uni or not gone to uni makes a difference. It's what you do outside of uni that really counts. And if for some reason you didn't get up to much during a university escapade then at least you have some accolade that you can use as evidence to back up one's academic claims. If you chose not to go to university, then to be a bit more credible you need to have some notable achievements - if not then you might as well go to university...

I agree and disagree with both of you. I went to university 3 or 4 years later than most because I realised I wasn't as 'special' as I thought I was. I think what megaman3 is trying to say is "show me your damned credentials so I can believe you". Quoting biographies of famous dead people and claiming them to be of superior intelligence is easy but not particularly correct. As intelligence now is incomparable to what it was then (when ever those people were alive). Also, if not going to university is such an excellent decision - then why don't we hear about the statistics of people who didn't become successful this way.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure I remember what we were talking about - but I'm bored as fuck sitting at the airport with a massive delay on my plane so bleh.

)

the beatles back me up, kind of.

So, you're a drugdealer?

"It requires a special mindset..."

Yeah, your mind is 'special' alright

"youre the one lacking education!!!! "

This coming from a guy using 4 exclamation points and endorsing drug conspiracy theories.

keep living in your world of labels, makes you feel pretty secure right?

Wow, can you be any more cliché?

Next thing you know, you're going to call me "brainwashed" or something you pathetic people tend to ironically enough do all the time.

Just stop wasting my time and go read up about govorment baaad :(((

Like it means something.

And you go read up about goverment goooood :)))

So you're either a paranoid tinfoil drugie OR you love the government? right?

Either you're with us or against us?

No, fuck you, your drugs AND your government.

C'mon man that documentary is about as legitimate as a Michael Moore film. :`(

I was sceptic about it, but you just convinced me to watch it.

Its just a good start, im not saying that doc is the ultimate truth, but its a nice start to further research on the topics it presents.

Basing information value only on source is short sighted, for example the FDA approved the use of Aspartame (nutrasweet), a known carcinogen and excitotoxin (cause neurons to die) when rumsfeld (who had actions on nutrasweet) got to the goverment in the reagan era. It was banned before because it was proved it created all kind of problems cause aspartame metabolizes into formaldehyde, methanol, diketopiperazine and formic acid which are toxic to the human body and are especially toxic to the brain.

Meanwhile the usa knows thc is a potent antitumoral agent since 1974, tests that were silenced but later replicated in other labs with the same results, yet its a banned substance. 1998 research , 200x research

Oh I'm totally with you on private interest dictating the US Governments actions, what laws can be bought in the US is absolutely fucking crazy.

pliis cam tu itali, mai frend.

But at least people know its true in Italy, in America its a world of denial.

meh, do you know berlusclown?

I hear he hosts great parties! :P

he denied ;)

and we all believe him:]

sure we do :)

The herb is the best medicine.

it is pity it blows up the minds

aight i can understand your point of view and you even have some legit points. but pot and any other drug! are unhealthy. i dont have to explain smoking is always unhealthy but lets asume you eat that shit. as any drug it causes addiction. weed causes psychosises and in long-term use literally destroys your brain. even if pot addiction doesnt hit hard on you if you consume it over years it will change you, and not to the better. you can throw your life away with pot it isnt harmless by any means. to the pro-pot people protesting for legalisation i can only say: booze and zigs are already causing too much harm why throw in more stuff that damages people. i know im quite a conservative dick on that one but that topic touched my life personally, i have lost friends(didnt die ofc) due to pot and i have friends who smoked out their brain.

damn.

Tell me. What in this world is healthy ?
Please compare these two substances and see what your conclusion is.

Sugar och Pot.

Pot is really good in some medical areas, and if you deny it, your naive. Of course there is like everything else, there are good and bad sides of it.

And Tosspot, if you don't think the ban behind POT comes from the medical suppliers, you are naive. Everything is about money, why would anyone pay for medicine, if you can grow a plant yourself that can solve a lot of psychosocial problems?

And also, I'm sorry to hear about your friends, but blaming pot that you have lost your friends is like blaming food that your friends has become fat.

also one of the top arguments but is it really that healthy? you might look up what diseases pot helps and dont come at me with a shitty wikipedia list. pot is good medicine for mostly cancerous and old people. plus why would u take medicine if you are not sick? you dont take 5 aspirins a day just in case do u?

to the sugar thing. hte human body needs its input including fat and sugar. you cant compare basic needs with pot

and to my friend he smoked himself dumb not able to hold a reasonable conversation this is only ! a pot issue and he wont recover

you cant compare basic needs with pot

i guess i don't even need a tasty and refreshing glass of beer, but i really like it :)

and to my friend he smoked himself dumb not able to hold a reasonable conversation this is only ! a pot issue and he wont recover

a drunk driver didn't obey a stop sign and killed my friend's sis. is drunk people FUNNIER than smoking oneselve dumb?

this was just to remember that something you like (alcohol) may be as harmful as pot. the only difference between the two is that the former is banned and the latter is not.

historically, it's not a problem of danger/side effects (alcohol, cigs, painkillers, cough syrups and, more generally, meds, ...).
if we avoid conspiracy or hemp vs oil theories, i think that once prohibitionism was over in USA, there wasn't anymore a hate conveyor for the society. that's why narrow-minded bigots had their attention redirected from alcoholic substances to something else (funny fact: take a look at USA anti-drug spot campaigns during the 40/50's).

nowadays, what's the actual difference between pot and alcohol? people abuse both of them and alcohol is a huge cost for society (just google it or read dis).

in the end, laws, as society, are not perfect. they both need to evolve depending on citizens' background.
if you don't want to legalize pot, why don't you ban oktoberfest?

>tl;dr everybody walk the dinosaur

dont justify drugs with drugs. alc is bad so is pot. luckily the one is legal the other one not. but legalising that shit will mess up the health system and destroy many lifes.

plussed for walk the dinosaur

but legalising that shit will mess up the health system and destroy many lifes

please, put some effort at defending your point =P

im at uni now. but look at costs and victim numbers of zics and booze . thats what comes with legalisation

worst argument ever, when booze was prohibited it was a nightmare!!! so they had to lift the prohibition. pot is banned cause apart from being a threat for the corrupted medical system, its a huge money maker for CIA et all, like coke, heroin, etc. The "wars" are all hoax, war on drugs LMAO, war on cancer LMAO, war on terrorism LMAO. Did you know USA invaded Afganistan cause the talibans didnt want their country to be a source of opium, so usa invaded it and BOOM production was high as ever, see this graph bro, you seriously need to research more on this topics, your so delluded!!! (no offense)

also, it was strategic for building a huge oil pipeline

lets asume you float a nice little city with low criminality low drug abuse etc with legal highs. thsi is what would happen:

-higher criminality since u need money to buy that shit
-long term health care issues since drugs damage you mentally and physically
-victims, crack babies, innocent kids falling into addiction before they are 13

you can compare legalisation with crack and cocaine in the 80s

i doubt you can name a good aspect of making drugs accessable. do you really wanna be that guy in front of your children? what you do with you life is your thing but kids see and kids do. the fuck i dont want my kids to grow up seeing that using drugs is legit. Gstructor stop, what are you doing STHAP

1. taxation income (from taxing the drugs duh)
2. Jobs (rehab,councellours,farms,shops,afficianados,education)
3. Self growth for the people that can handle it without the stress of getting persecuted.

Crack,cocaine,meth/crystalmeth etc all run rampant worldwide to this day. It's allready "easily" accessable for the people that are searching for it and legalizing them wouldnt really change all that much (depending on how each city/country handle it).

With the logic you convey we should also ban transfats,sugar,tv,books,masturbation,sex and exercize as they are all prone to abuse in many different ways ( both negative and positive ).

Fuck, you can even abuse water. That shit will kill you if you do not use MODERATION.


The key is educate the youth of tomorrow and instill more sense of self disciplin and make the idea of moderation more "mainstream". Your currently living in the mtv era of mcdonalds and sugar fueled rage fits because of lazy uneducated parents that are doing their best to get by the mindnumbing reality that is modern day life...


Yeah, i got a bit off topic.... deal with it :D


ps.

cannabis is a treatment for add/adhd it lowers the oxygen intake to the frontal lobes as its imbalanced (thus causing focus and coordination issues). amfetamines do the same thing but are in the long run dangerous and causes heart disease (even at low doses).

cannabis can also be used to treat deppression at low/medium doses with regular moderation. It's also used for fighting addiction and is a far better substitute for pain then popping opiates (addictive, destroys your arteries and is a thousand times more damaging in the long run).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=an...UtNF-Le2L0

Usagi is more reliable than this kind of graphs

How is alcohol bad?

i dont know man, its addictive and affects your state of mind

Your talking about abuse or miss use now.

no, alcohol is addicting at any level. Just different levels of addiction, most people can handle it, some cant.
¨
And it does affect your state of mind, mental coordination is lowered, physical coordination is lowered and you think differently while drunk.

Thus, changes your state of mind.

Just becomes something is addictive doesn't mean it WILL create an addiction. Some people are immune against addiction, some people tend to get have an easier time to get it.

Thats what I've been saying, alcohol does not become a problem if the person can handle it, food does not become a problem if a person eats normal portions. So blaming the substance isn't fair except for when its really addictive and messes with your mind.

I can do the exact same thing on every substance. Everything we take inside changes us in some way, otherwise there wouldn't be any point of taking it.

I do agree with everything you have written except the first parts of your answer.

People are naturally prone to addiction, alcohol is addictive.
Thus alcohol supplies addiction.
Why are you even arguing this when you pretty much presented an oxymoron?

And no one is immune to addiction.

I guess you have more experience of working with addiction then i have. so maybe i should stfu.

I have no idea of what experiences you have and i really dont think you should stop discussing it.
Was never my intention for you to stop either.

I just felt you had a wierd view of addiction and we probably view addiction in different ways, just conveying my side of things.

sorry if you got offended.

Well.

A lot of people view Addiction as a disease.

this part is copied from the organisation where i did my research / field practice

"We would also like to add that addiction might be caused by any reason whatsoever. Addiction may be the result of a particular event or a series of activating events, or an individual might be genetically, socially, culturally or for any other reasons be trapped in the addiction for which he may or may not be exclusively responsible. However, he owns the responsibility of choosing the narcotic substance as a coping mechanism, he is responsible for the acts committed during his addiction and more importantly he has to take the sole responsibility of sober living"

From what i learned the substance should never be blamed for the problem it causes.

Definition of a disease:
a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.

alcohol/drugs can be applied in the poison category, though in my opinion we use it because we dont have a real word for it and it's har d to really categorise.

I whole heartedly agree with the text you pasted. I also love how it can be applied to virtually anything that depends on a consious decision.

alcohol isn't addicting at any level; his effects on the brain doesn't generate direct body dependace; marijuana does it;
the kind of depedance you are referring to is the psychological one; but basically everything can developes psychological dependance: videogames, poker, slot machines, food, physical aspect, pornography and dozens of other things develops so muche dependance that there are cliniques on the entire world specialized in these things;
while if you drink 1-2 glass of wines or of beer at day, during the meals, you simply can't develope dependance;
on the other side, take ANYBODY, tie him/her up on a bed in an empty door, inject in him/her some cocaine or eroin, or force him/her to smoke pot: you have obtained a drug addict, plain and simple; not all the drugs have the same addiction power; with some of them, 1 dose is enough to develope PERMANENT needs; and detoxication is always way worst and more difficult than someone could think.

Dont know why im even replying to a troll post but lets go.

Let's start with what they have in common, both alcohol and cannabis release dopamines in the brain. Thats how it starts and is also the reason why people can get addicted to exercize,tv,pain etc.

Why alcohol is addictin, ethanol and dopamine. The body will develop an ethanol dependancy over time, even when drinking "small" amounts everyday which can easily be experimented with by drinking 2glasses of beer/wine a day and stopping cold turkey.

Why cannabis is addicting, THC and dopamine release.
THC stimulates the receptors in the brain releasing dopamines.
With regular use the receptors will get harder and harder to stimulate and dopamine levels will get lower aswell. But at no point are you physically addicted to thc to the point of dependancy.

In both cases individual tolerence plays a roll, to say that you get addicted from taking one toke or drinking one glass of beer is just absurd.

Our views differ no doubt, but i stand by my initial statement.
If you want to argue the meaning of the word addiction it would be a whole other story.

Your is a troll post....
according to you, both alcohol and cannabis makes the body to develop dopamine, but cannabis doesn't develop dependance? You serious?
Even if that thing of the dopamine release would be true, which i doubt, both the substances would develop dependance; but you claim that cannabis, doesn't; which in fact is quite the opposite of what is the common experience, and even the opposite of what researches and studies says; Alcohol, like it ir not, doesn't develops physical dependance, the only active principle of the alcoholics, the ethanol, is just a simple alcool, chemically; it doesn't interact with brain for develop chemical dependace, contrarily to the tetrahydrocannabinol, the active principle of the marijuana; it is pure terrorism to claim that small quantities of alcohol develops physical dependance, and it is contrary to what the science says;
It is just the kind of argument a pro-drug would add, but let's consider that aspect: even if, for some reasons, it would be true that normal quantities of alcohol would develop dependance like a drug like cannabis would do, it would still be wrong to pretend to legalize the Marijuana; a coherent behaviour would be to pretend that BOTH would be declared illegal, being both drugs.
But the thruth is, alcoolics are not drugs; they can be abused, they can hurt your body and makes you doing wrong things altherating your mind (temporarily) when used in toxic quantitatives, but they don't act like the drugs does on the brain.

sigh..
alcohol that you drink is ethanol.
You could try drinking methanol and see what happens to you in the long run though.

study on ethanol/alcohol dependancy and how it effects the brain.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF...rue#page-1

It also turns out were both wrong, tetrahydrocannabinol can create dependency alltough short term.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/278/3/1290.short

There are more similar studies and widely varying results on the subject of thc dependence and withdrawal but all the studies on alcohol dependancy point to the same thing.

Do you even know why cannabis is illiegal and stigmatized in the first place and alcohol isnt?

i cannot link school books where i read the drugs sections with the effects, but it's clear the alcoholics doesn't developes dependance like drugs does; if you are referring to alcoholistics, these peoples are just phsychological dependants, exactly like some obese peoples are dependant to food, or some others are dependant to videogame etc.;

And after all, still stays the general concept: if you really think that alcoholics are drugs, then you should ask to make them illegal too; instead to ask to legalize marijuana because of the alcoholics.

You cant link schoolbooks, but you can atleast write them down.
Translate it and write it here or just find a single credible study online that can support your claim.

it's not that hard.

I don't even know where these books are, actually; probably down in the cellar, under some bookpillar; i don't intend it as an excuse, anyway; it's just that i don't care to post proofs that are already common knowledge of the last 40 years of medicine or so, and are easily findable with a rapid search; just because i already have seen peoples (drug dealers, abusers, or just simphatyzers, dunno) denying the evidence of the facts and claiming that "researchs are biased by moralistic governments, you don't have seen cannabis drug addicts, they must have been fine, they must have been alcohol addicts", and so on.....
I'm not referring to someone in particular;
just feel free to ruin your body and your psyche with wathever you prefer; it's your choice to refuse the reality and to deny it, but affirming false things you'll just contribute to someone else's malaise; doing it consciously or not.

So what i got from this.

Your stating stuff out of thin air and your too lazy to even google a simple study to prove your point.


So i stick to my first assessment, your just a bored troll.
If your not your just ignorant.

merry christmas.

The one stating stuffs out of thin air is you, only that in your effort to defend drugs you have a lot of interest in pointing out useless/unreliable/biased researchs googled around;

So i stick to my assessment, your just an hurted cannabis user.
If your not your just ignorant.

Merry Christmas.

Cant even goad you into providing a source apparantly.
The time it took you to actually write a response would be enough to actually provide something.

But keep stringing me along, i dont really care if you do as this is pretty entertaining.

Yes, it sure is entertaining, like is entertaining to smoke the brain to psychosis, aphaty and paranoia; but as i already said, there are only two points left:

1- You are totallly free to fuck you up with whatever substance you prefer, unless you try to convince someone else that these shits does good things;

2.Alcoholics and cigarettes are way less harmful than cannabis, since they doesn't modify the psyche; but if you really think they really are worst, you should ask to forbidden them also, instead of using it as an excuse to legalize other drugs.

Im still not arguing legalizing drugs with you so why are you defending your self on that point when im not even arguing with you?

Ive also provided proof that alcohol is as "damaging" as cannabis if not more.


1. i am free to do whatever the fuck i want, thus i dont smoke and i hardly drink anymore.

2. alcoholics refers to people that are dependant on alcohol.
cigartettes are dangerous because of the cancerous tar.
Tobacco in moderation is no more less dangerous than alcohol or cannabis.

Why is it an excuse to legalize other drugs?
You do realise that drugs are a huge tax sink at the moment?
YOU provide the cost of treatment with your own tax money.
legalizing all drugs and taxating it will solve that problem instead of treading along this path.


If people want to do drugs they will DO drugs.

i just might add this aswell, if you are arguing everything vs alcohol why arent you mentioning various opiates that have been proven to be harmful? How is thc worse then opiates?
If you say omething about changing the psyche you are only proving how daft you are on the subject.

i don't really know if it was you asking to legalize cannabis or someone else, but you were defending it too, so the point doesn't change much;
Still, you can invent and shout out whatever you want, but there is no way moderate use of tobacco or alcoholics can even be comparable to the damages drugs like cannabis and others does, mainly phsychologically;
I say so because you do anything possible to demonize things like alcohol and tobacco, that are not drugs, and on the other hand diminishing the drawbacks of drugs like cannabis;
If you are not doing so, i apologize, i misunderstood, but please tell me: what are you trying to say? That cannabis is less harmful than tobacco? This is just ridicolous, and you well know it.
It's just a pity that you try so hard, because i have seen with my eyes the effects of the "two pipes a week" on some people's mind, and they are evidents and sad.
Just don't try to corrupt other peoples with the lie "the most natural medicine" or whatsoever.

Im not answering the same question again, if you dont understand after all this i really cant help you. So i'll ask you questions instead.

Why isn't alcohol,tobacco,sugar,poppy etc considered to be a drug in your opinion?

Please explain in medical/chemical terms WHY cannabis is more dangerous then alcohol.

What does "two pipes a week" actually mean?
There are people treating illnesses like glaucoma,ALS,sclerosis etc. with cannabis, you see no benefit with this at all?


Why do you like alcohol? explain in detail.

man, you are only doing dumb questions faking ignorance, you already know the answer to all of your question, if anything just reading around in this thread;
And to make provocative questions won't change the facts above exposed.

Yet you wont answer them, ive stated my opinion and why i think like i do you havnt. You have nothing to base your opinion except from hearsay and everytime we even get close to the subject you try and wriggle out of it the best way you can. i am asking you why you think alcohol less dangerous then cannabis, i want a chemical breakdown on why that is. Not assumptions and biased opinion not to mention how you say i demonize this and that when i havnt done that. ive only stated the facts, provided sources and you have yet to bring anything credible to this discussion what so ever.
Your free to think whatever you want but if your only going to listen to one source your pretty much admitting that you are biased.

So again:

Why isn't alcohol,tobacco,sugar,poppy etc considered to be a drug in your opinion?

Please explain in medical/chemical terms WHY cannabis is more dangerous then alcohol.

What does "two pipes a week" actually mean?
There are people treating illnesses like glaucoma,ALS,sclerosis etc. with cannabis, you see no benefit with this at all?

Why do you like alcohol? explain in detail.


if your not going to answer them, dont bother replying cause im not interested if your not going to try and propell this discussion forward.

Yes, suddenly the fact that drugs are unhealthy becomes "my opinion", "don't supported by science researchs"? You have smoked too much to say so! And you asking me links for those sources, while the more difficult thing is to avoid them?
And stop asking me why tobacco and alcohol cannot be classified as drugs like marijuana, because i've already explained it, all you have to do is to search them in this exactly thread;

If you don't bother to read what i wrote, then you can as well stop repeating me the same questions.

now i dont i chose the words carefully

cmon don't play with words :)
both alcohol and cannabis danger are related to how wise the "user" is.
that's why law is ineffective at regulating both of them.

ok we are stuck here. fronts are clear. i want to add one last thing. weed doesnt do good to you. it intoxicates, enslaves and damages you. medical mariujana sure bring it on. im the last to keep ill people away from their medicine. but weed is not good for healthy people period

yes, but my provocation stands still: "why is cannabis (~illegal) worse than alcohol (legal)"
alcohol is just an example, i.e. cigarettes are also addictive, they intoxicate, enslave and damage you.
EDIT: even if sauce is not provided, dis graph is quite enlightening.

never said that. i think booze and before all zigarettes are more dangerous. but its too late we are a drinking and smoking world. i dont want more bad stuff to be established.

as ql map pool, we may set up a rotation :)

xD

XD

cannabis IS worse than tobacco and alcohol, that for sure; and if you are referring to drunk so much to almost die, or to smoke 20 cigarettes at day, still, try to compare the maximum negative effects of the three: you will see that you will be a braindead phsycothic amoeba well before being in alcoholic coma or died by an infarct.

it's funny you still believe you know what you're talking about.
are you a mor(m)on? :)

ah, yeah, funny, to be called a mormon when saying that drugs fucks up the brain and you don't like them because you have seen directly the effects they have to peoples

we were talking about cannabis, not drugs in general
btw, here

the concept is the same, cannabis is a drug, according to the definition of the term "drug"

ye, same as dm6 is an all shaft map.

? i'm glad to inform you dm6 has been included in this month's standard mappool, more games to play!

exactly the same way as guns are bad

"i guess i don't even need a tasty and refreshing glass of beer, but i really like it :)"

so what? What's the point? Cannabis is not a basic need. Food is. Point.
Just because i like a thing, am i authorized to do it? Does it make it a right thing?
By the way, alcohol is not even comparable to Cannabis... Alcohol doesn't change people's behaviour permanently, and contrarily to cannabis, there are safe alcohol dayly assumption doses.

so what? What's the point? Cannabis is not a basic need. Food is. Point.

my irony was just about that. beer is not a basic need.
i thought it was clear enuff, but if it's still not clear, i can sketch it for you :)

Just because i like a thing, am i authorized to do it? Does it make it a right thing?

no, but it is your duty to change public opinion and discuss your ideas.
also, what about tolerance? you really remind me of the guys who threw stones at mary magdalene in the bible.

By the way, alcohol is not even comparable to Cannabis... Alcohol doesn't change people's behaviour permanently, and contrarily to cannabis, there are safe alcohol dayly assumption doses.

source? alcoholic grandpa's words?

How is beer food?
Some vitamines sure, but other then that its moot.

Your better off sucking on jeast and chewing some hops.. :P

Not to forget that alchohol is far more toxic then thc.

Compare it to drinking your self to death vs smoking your self to death.

good luck with that one...

my point was pretty clear, then ;)

Well. I don't drink alcohol because its a basic need, i think it because it makes me gets away from reality, something i think everyone is in need of.

meditation is a much healthier and way more powerful way to escape reality and shut the noise in the head.

I know. Used to live in the mountains of Kashmir/India.

Alcohol is worse in almost every aspect.

you do realize you can drink yourself dumb too right ?

you mean potat :)

I'm not saying it doesn't have some benefits, I'm only saying it doesn't help to present your case like Michael Moore does!

Why you hate Moore so much? He was the first that showed me that Bin Laden was tied to the Bush family, and was having a health treatment on USA at the same time he was the "most wanted man on earth". Nobody has the absoulte truth, but moore is way smarter than most people that bashes him.

I used to like Michael Moore and I too learnt a lot about Bush in fahrenheit 911 however you can counter that with something like this: http://www.arcaneknowledge.org/movies/fahrenheit.htm
I have to admit that this link I've given you is a really bad counter argument because its clearly by an anti-moore writer. I also liked Michael Moore's documentary about Healthcare because to be that's the most obvious right Americans are denied.

I turned on Moore during an interview he did with Channel 4 news here in the UK during US Election Night (I think 2004, could have been 08) where are relatively lenient questioning from John Snow who I believe to be the best news anchor in the business he offered NOTHING. He just spouted popular liberal diatribe to preach to the converted.

When you scratch at the surface of Moore there's little substance and he dumbs down his arguments to appeal to the MTV viewer which if you're to be taken seriously is just wrong. You don't have to make an old fashioned BBC documentary but even John Stewart proves you can have substance and style with out compromising on quality.

man you sure are fucking stupid

Just when I think I'm getting over your posts, you find a way to make me cringe even more

he never misses an opportunity to let people know what a crazy beer-drinking pot-smoking party-animal mofo he really is... what could possibly make you cringe about that???

him explaining how he lost his virginity

Given his whole appearance, it's not that believable

agree

actually people acuse me of beeing an alcoholic but as a matter of fact i just drink on a lan a lot. and on the weekends sometimes.i dont even can handle much booze. and i am absolutely against drugs. i know i know alc is a drug too but who is perfect

We all have our addictions, crazy party moments and weaknesses, but never missing a chance to mention them on ESR or stream can get very cringeworthy.

it doesnt feel that way to me. anyway i get it.

and as im already in the need of justifying myself. sharpe it has come to this. i tolerated your hate a long time now. i dont know what your reasons are but i didnt do any harm to anyone nor did i provoke anyone like some esr members do constantly*looking in your direction* i could call you names now but thats not my style. lets just say you are one hell of a angry self-rightous little man. oh and ive been waiting a long time to use this pic.

thats right thats the homo retard mouse* style of officially calling you an asshole.

Not saying you're homo man. Just saying you seem, through the internets, to be the kind of guy who just discovered booze and weed and likes to show off his consumption everywhere. Be the bigger man and don't mention these things, people won't like you because of it.

thats a weird portray of me anyway we talked about it lets move on

your just wierd in general son... but that's why we like you. ;]

:3 *sending mental christmas present in 3...2....*

meh. there is so much stuff waaaaaaaaaaaay worse for you than marihuana that you ingest every day. there will always be people that misuse or even abuse substances, but it doesn't mean that those substances should be illegal or are bad for you (you know, those that are actually harmless like weed). case in point: booze. it can be bad for you if you drink like a dumbass and do stupid shit, but in moderation is awesome. the same thing with weed. used properly by people in the right age that can make decisions for themselves is no more dangerous for you than a packet of crisps. in conclusion:

(just kidding:])

ps: lol @ new lans in US (the lol will be gladly revoked if something interesting actually surfaces:])

Thanks for posting bro, good advice there.

I live in Washington and it rains a lot.

rain = $$$$

=D

quakeless in seattle?

Get the community together and have a fundraiser. Only way too see if theres any interest really. :]

I love it that everything Tosspot posts I read it in his voice.

And another derailed thread were gretard shows us his paranoia.

Alcohol is not even comparable to Cannabis, the only ones that does it are the ones trying to legalize it; alcohol doesn't develope physical dependance, and there are daily assumption doses that are totally safe, unless you already have heavy hepatic issues; various studies have demonstrated how to drink maximum 1-2 glass of wine (wine, not beer or vodka) per day stretchs the life span;
the same definitely can't be said for marijuana, that develops both physical and psychological dependance, ruining the body conditions expecially on the brain side, generating psichosys, paranoia and passivity, permanently; and shortening the life span;
Even tobacco generates physical dependance, but in a light way, that is not even comparable to marijuana one; mainly, tobacco ruins the body conditions, but doesn't make the peoples crazy;
alcohol isn't a bad thing per se; tobacco is, but just in ruining the body; both these things aren't socially dangerous;
while marijuana... well, you will see the effects that marijuana brings when used on regular basis on an entire community, in the next years... sure, medias will lights the statistic relative to criminal acts and psychological collapse, but the effects will be so massive that they will be impossible to hide; only that it will be too late, for that peoples... ruined in the name of the fun and the freedom to all costs.
Am i a prohibitionist freak? No, i am just a normal persona, with the defects that we all have; only that i don't want to live in a drug addicts society, and just because i have seen and read about the effects the drugs does on the human behaviour, and i simply hate what cannabis, "the light drug, the pain-suppressor, "the more natural medicine", have made to peoples i have known, some of them i still knows: nobody of them is an equilibrate, satisfied person; even peoples that just smoked once or twice in a week, gives the impression of being aphatics, deeply unsatisfied, unpredictables; while some peoples that have had an heavy dependance, are just amoebas, they accept anything, they only wills the next pipe. This is the deliberate, indifferent, dismantle of an human psyche. I just hate it, and the facts some peoples tries to hide or to call with other names.

You are highly misinformed, dude.

You are.

And also willfully ignorant.

hes totally right tho. there are a lot of studies regarding the increased risk of depression, schizophrenia and other when smoking marijuana. it cannot be compared to alcohol which is a quite straight toxic that our metabolism is used to dismantle in little doses.

i neither smoke nor drink cause i have an heritable propensity for addictions but i wouldnt ever compare something that is a byproduct of mashed bread that has been consumed since the neolithic period to marijuana (and i also think that people who do that are just desperate to legalize it)

"Cannot be compared" is ignorant extremal position. Anything can be compared in certain aspects.

i wouldnt ever compare something that is a byproduct of mashed bread that has been consumed since the neolithic period to marijuana

Unless you clearly state what particular properties are uncomparable, this is meaningless statement.

sure you can compare everything just to find out in most cases that both have nothing spectacular in common. whats the point? :P
but let me state what properties are uncomparaable: the effect on the human and the ability of the very same to deal with it. both are negative but in a very different way

He's totally right though: there are a lot of studies regarding the increased risk of depression, insomnia, hypertension and other when drinking excessively. It cannot be compared to cannabis which is a quite straight toxic that our metabolism is used to dismantle in little doses.

I both occasionally smoke and drink due to the fact i have a propensity for avoiding addictions[ because but i wouldn't ever compare something that is a byproduct of weaving crop cultures that have been in fabricdation since the start of the neolithic period to ethanol-consuming liquids (and i also think that people who do that are just desperate enough to resort to scare tactics)

smoking is automatically done while weaving just how consuming alcohol is when eating the precursor of bread? and we all are offsprings to people that use weed for fabric?

both false

smoking is automatically done while weaving just how consuming alcohol is when eating the precursor of bread?

I'm sorry, but what? How were you able to come to that conclusion. You implied that weed is dangerous while alcohol is all fine and dandy, trying to trivialise alcohol as a simple byproduct of yeast (not bread by the way), well I wanted to point out that marijuana is an accidental by-product of a crop that was used for different purposes (just like beers).

and we all are offsprings to people that use weed for fabric?

I just wanted you to know that hemp, in terms of history, is a culture that was used for manufacturing of threads for weaving purposes (clothes as well as rope) and papers rather for recreational drug uses. Notable regions and nations utilising the cultivation of hemp are: the middle east, China, western Europe (England, Spain and France in particular due to their colonial demands), the North America (I recall, although not sure of factual evidence, just before independence US land-owners who refused to grow hemp were incurred an additional tax in the original New England states in the 17-18th centuries, and George Washington owned hemp plantations. So all the people that are not offspring of Sub-Saharan Africans, Native Mesoamericans or Pacific Islander Aborigines are offspring of societies that grew hemp ;] Shit, the Soviet Union had a massive industrialised program for growing low to non-THC bearing hemp in Ukraine and Siberia (for clothes manufacturing purposes) since the 1930s to the late 1970s. So yea, there

* What is it with, like, a large portion of Germans turbo-rape the English language? A large portion of people who would list some sort of Germanic language as a mother tongue tend to twist plurals, get the past tense of verbs wrong and write adjectives and their following nouns as one word, and most annoyingly, are completely unable to detect any form of sarcasm. You lost 2 world wars broheims, please fucking learn the language of your conquerors already, it's annoying and frustrating to communicate with y'all :'(

wanted to give a serious reply until
"You lost 2 world wars broheims, please fucking learn the language of your conquerors already"
fick dich

Raged like a Kraut c:

Am i a prohibitionist freak?

no, i just feel this is a lot of strained blabla underlying a lack of knowledge.

as be4, waiting for a reliable source. otherwise i could also say:
"well, you will see the effects that nex1 would bring when listened at on regular basis on an entire community, in the next years... sure, medias will lights the statistic relative to criminal acts and psychological collapse, but the effects will be so massive that they will be impossible to hide; only that it will be too late, for that peoples... ruined in the name of the boredom and the freedom to all costs."

cheers :)

to not know the negative effects of drugs you could only directly avoid every single book/science magazine/ internet source related to them.... and i should be the one with lack of knowledge?
as be4, waiting for a reliable source that states the absence of negative effects by smoking pots

cheers :)

first of all, my example is my personal experience and a job which requires strong mental lucidity. 'nuff?

if it's not, check this obscure website

Though the long-term effects of cannabis have been studied, there remains much to be concluded.

also:

[...]The epidemiological evidence is strongest that cannabis use exacerbates the symptoms of schizophrenia in affected individuals. [...]
The most contentious issue is whether cannabis use can cause schizophrenia that would not have occurred in its absence. One cannot rule it out but it is unlikely to account for more than a minority of cases. [...]
From Cannabis Use and Psychosis - Wayne Hall, National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre, Australia

also:

[...]Cannabis use appears to be neither a sufficient nor a necessary cause for psychosis. It is a component cause, part of a complex constellation of factors leading to psychosis.[...]
From British Journal of Psychiatry (2004) 181, p110 - 117, Prof. Robin Murray.

i could go on for hours...

also:

to not know the negative effects of drugs you could only directly avoid every single book/science magazine/ internet source related to them.... and i should be the one with lack of knowledge? [...]
From your last post

iirc, we are not talking about all drugs, but about one in particular.

in the end, the key point is you don't seem to understand the concept of moderation. it wouldn't apply only on pot, but also on booze, eating, ... and, generally LIFE.
do the workds "responsible use" recall you something or you see only in b/w?

also, since you said you read a lot of book/science magazines/reliable internet pages, i wait for you to post the "evidences" you claim, sir.

listen, you are free to blow up your mind with whatever you like, just don't use the excuse that it's a good thing and "it's a medicine, alcohol is worst, etc. etc.."

still waiting for the "evidences" you claim (school books excuse is just pathetic).
the only evidence I see is you repeating something (said by someone else) you're too lazy to check.

You want my evidences?
FUCK YOU is my evidences!
YOURS are the excuses, when you say there are no evidences drugs such as marijuana are harmful, we all know that, i've seen with my direct eyes what it can do to the guys, and it's trash!
So fuck off if you mean to troll around saying "lalala, i've never seen evidences of drugs being harmful..." and fuck off even if you say that alcohol and cigarettes are as harmful as marijuana or so, because we all well know they are not, and if you say the opposite you are just intentionally trolling, in which case, go smoking your brain off with a booze, dude!
If your intention were sincererely trying to avoid peoples harms theirself with things like alcohol and cigarettes, you should just be asking to forbid them... ...instead of pretending to legalize drugs!

not really trolling, but i think you did not understand neither my thesis nor any of the following points:

- you don't know ANYTHING about that (i.e. you keep generalizing by putting hemp at the same level of other drugs, "go smoking your brain off with a booze", ...)
- what did you see with your "direct" eyes? trainspotting? christiane f.? don't tease your audience.
- you don't understand what you read; i.e. where did i say "i've never seen evidences of drugs being harmful..."?
- you don't accept someone questioning your beliefs
- my "excuses" are supported by publications and experience, while you can't provide any sources to support your beliefs (that's why i don't call them theses)
- you shall not say "we all know", you may say "i think" since you don't support your personal beliefs
- you raged as a 10 years old boy, congrats: you are not able to stand a confrontation
- how could i be your dude if you tell me to f*ck off? please put your head in a cold water bowl before answering

- lalala? redditfag detected... you don't deserve being cooller's one

As a responsible individual that I consider myself, I'll do whatever drug I want to do. I think this debate goes further than how harm are drugs... It's about personal freedom, you know? You don't like drugs, FINE, don't do them! Easy as that, you can't ask for a society without drugs man, that's a fucking fantasy and you know it, I would rather regulate them, create information about them... why someone is a criminal for having a physical addiction? wouldn't it be rather a medical problem? why would someone spend time in jail for doing drugs? I think it would be more reasonable and logical that those who are under dangerous addictions would go to doctors instead of going to prison, that won't help them...

Besides, if you regulate drugs you destroy organized crime all over the world, do you think that society should care first about some random asshat snorting some whitey dust into his nose? Society should care about the producers of that whitey dust who are the actual criminals, the guys who kill people for their business, do you know how big quantities of cocaine need to be supplied to the whole 'distribution points'? do you know how much people are working for this illegal industry (and what conditions, yeah, almost slaves)? Criminals becoming the richest people and most powerful guys of the world (because money is power in absolutely every place of this fucked up world), do you think this is good? Christ, who cares about drugs themselves, just don't be dumb enough to use them...

But don't forget that a person's decision to take drugs in the first place depends on what they know about them, as well as most people not beginning drug use as responsible individuals but rather as young and highly influential individuals. Basically, the education people recieve and the people who surround them during their early years are beyond their control, so you can't really call it personal freedom in most cases. However, I agree with you on everything else :D

"create information about them" in my post stands for stuff like ex drug addicts or former rehab guys go and talk to high school kids and so on, not just questionable 3 second TV-spots just saying DRUGS ARE BAD !!!!!!!!! next to national health care logo or some other shit. You need to know the whole background and nobody can tell you better than someone who's addicted and admits this addiction.

listen, you are free to blow up your mind with whatever you like, just don't use the excuse that it's a good thing and "it's a medicine, alcohol is worst, etc. etc.."

I didn't say otherwise )) drugs are bad for health and they are problematic too

and that is the problem

No answer for me? Or did you realise how moronic your original opinion makes you look ? c:

i lost your reply, after a while they cancel from the esr banner, so please repost it if it really contained something that deserved to be responded.... if you didn't realise how moronic your original opinion makes you look c:

I basically replied to you, using such items as "logic" and "empirical evidence", as well as included credible studies (with source material links) that rank drugs for misuse potential :o If anything, my response was general anti-drug (all drugs, so including alcohol, which to be honest is very dangerous as well, more so than certain illegal drugs) and pro-moderation by the way. (more detail in the post)

Since you are having problems locating it, I've left you a magical clue to where you might find the mysterious post!

| TRY
| LOOKING
| DOWN
| YOU
| FUCKING
| MORON
| #144
V

that delirantic wall of text was directed to me? Sorry, you should have included a tl; dr section, i don't like to waste time listening to the rants of someone desperately searching to present drugs as "medicine" or so;
Drugs are unhealthy, all the researches on them clearly shows the dozens of permanent drawbacks of using them, included marijuana; all the researches, excluded the little percentage of them that are biased and meaningless;
Ah, and in case you were trying to use the classic last-resource trick, "alcohol and tobacco (and chocolate!) are drugs, and harmful", then you should as well ask to forbid them, instead of using that nonsense as an excuse to legalize drugs.

Where in the fuck in my post did I ask to legalise drugs? I just corrected you on certain points of view because, well, you seem to be uninformed and opinionated.

tl;dr version of my below post, done since you can't speak English well enough to understand it:

1) All drugs (including tobacco and alcohol) are dangerous to a person's physical and mental well-being when abused. The trick is either moderation or completely staying away.

2) Alcohol+tobacco have a much higher potential for abuse and harm than marijuana. Scientific Journal Article

3) Your prediction for "end of the world due to weed being legalised" comes from ignorance and a biased view as a result of your personal experience. Several nations and historical entities had widespread (and sometimes borderline mandatory) drug (cocaine, marijuana, opiates) yet none claim their end due to their drug use. Conquest by a passing superpower, relocation or revolution? Yes. Self-Annihilation? You've watched Mad Max too many times c:

4) You seem to be biased against marijuana in particular, because of an addiction to your close friend or relative

5) I'd currently narrow down your possible location to just rural Italy and France (you're not Southern Slavonic, based on your use of the term "delirantic", which is a defunct term in English language, and uneducated Franks and Italians tend to use loan words from their mother tongues when running out of vocabulary.. and "rural" because your views and small-town commune logic rule you out living in a thriving metropolis). The general attitude your surrounding populace has taken to consumption of alcohol, mostly wine: people are proud to be in a rural environment that is a staple of wine production and are happy to get drunk, their grandparents and parents got piss-drunk and the children just don't know any better. I'd say you are pre-determined for an onset of early alcoholism based on your point of view (if you aren't a borderline alcoholic already)

6) Your close friend or relative that warped your mind with their drug addiction so bad? If things are as extreme as you say, then they just had a certain pre-determination to failure and weakness (imagine Fredo in The Godfather, he's a fuck up and he can't help it), and if weed wasn't their poision of choice, they would have fallen to something else.

7) Your "friends" who "smoke once or twice a week" and are unsatisfied with their situations and are "not equilibrate" , well, they are probably have additional problems (financial, relationship, family, onset of early alcoholism as a result of living in a bad region, onset of chronic depression due to living in a bad region or possibly something even more serious) << How do you know they don't have additional problems they won't tell you about?

8) This is basically a repeat of number one, but based on your reading comprehension, I'd better write it again. All drugs (including tobacco and alcohol) are dangerous to a person's physical and mental well-being when abused. The trick is either moderation or completely staying away.

agree and plussed you for #144. wonderful post.
3) bigots had to focus their hate towards something else than booze in the lates '30 (personal opinion) :)
4) nex1 often mixes up the terms "marijuana" and "drugs", I think he hasn't any personal experiences, his beliefs have been put in his head by someone else. is "dogma" the correct word for that?
5) I was born and I lived in italy until I was 26. althought the phenomena is starting to vanish, it's still like that in small towns.
nex1 may be italian: 1 = uno, nexUNO ~ nessuno = noone.
7) those "friends" smoke because thet are unsatisfied (and they have more problems), it's not the other way around.
8) completely agree

9) torquemada would be proud of nex1 :)

Alcohol is not even comparable to Cannabis, the only ones that does it are the ones trying to legalize it; alcohol doesn't develope physical dependance, and there are daily assumption doses that are totally safe, unless you already have heavy hepatic issues; various studies have demonstrated how to drink maximum 1-2 glass of wine (wine, not beer or vodka) per day stretchs the life span;

Anything could be comparable to anything else, should there be one or a set of criteria to gauge the comparison. I could write more and but while looking for data, I found this study which ranks alcohol (lolhi and tobacco) above cannabis on a comparative scale for potential misuse ( a comparison on psychological danger of the drug and predictability of addiction as well as potential psychological and physical harm). Please note that this is a scientific paper written by academic professionals so a good factual example of where you are going wrong in your assumptions.

the same definitely can't be said for marijuana, that develops both physical and psychological dependance, ruining the body conditions expecially on the brain side, generating psichosys, paranoia and passivity, permanently; and shortening the life span;

This time I couldn't be fucked looking up individual studies so I decided to be lazy and just wikipedia'd it.An article that includes both supportive and critical arguments of marijuana and its use. Thankfully this link will provide enough studies and references to data should you question the legitimacy of the material on that page.

alcohol isn't a bad thing per se; tobacco is, but just in ruining the body; both these things aren't socially dangerous;
while marijuana... well, you will see the effects that marijuana brings when used on regular basis on an entire community, in the next years... sure, medias will lights the statistic relative to criminal acts and psychological collapse, but the effects will be so massive that they will be impossible to hide; only that it will be too late, for that peoples... ruined in the name of the fun and the freedom to all costs.

I am yet to hear of a civilisation that could claim that widespread drug use as a contributing factor towards its downfall. The Qing dynasty in China openly practiced and encouraged smoking Opium for several centuries, and used the same opium before that for medicinal purposes for Milennia (and if you ever read Arthur Conan Doyle, you'd see that opium houses existed in Europe as well), ancient Mesoamerican civilisations used the coca leaf in battle, hashishins in what is now modern-day Iran survived for almost 2 centuries before being ransacked by the Mongols who were nonchalantly passing through. Even 20th century fiction addresses the issue in a different light to your predictions: Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, a dystopian novel with themes of over-indulgence of a futuristic society via the form of mandatory state-administered synthetic drug named Soma predicts the downfall of current society in its values to be replaced by hedonism and loss of moral values rather than "end of world omg" that you predicted. You seem to be just over-simplifying the issue based on your personal experiences, but more on that on the next paragraph, since it's relevant.

Am i a prohibitionist freak? No, i am just a normal persona, with the defects that we all have; only that i don't want to live in a drug addicts society, and just because i have seen and read about the effects the drugs does on the human behaviour, and i simply hate what cannabis, "the light drug, the pain-suppressor, "the more natural medicine", have made to peoples i have known, some of them i still knows: nobody of them is an equilibrate, satisfied person; even peoples that just smoked once or twice in a week, gives the impression of being aphatics, deeply unsatisfied, unpredictables; while some peoples that have had an heavy dependance, are just amoebas, they accept anything, they only wills the next pipe. This is the deliberate, indifferent, dismantle of an human psyche. I just hate it, and the facts some peoples tries to hide or to call with other names.

I'd call you a prohibitionist freak. You seem to trivialise issues based on your personal feelings and experiences rather than empirical data (you keep saying "studies prove" without quoting what studies have done so, me mate Dave from the pub says if you go to the crossroads closest to your house and bite the corner of the house right next to it during the full moon, you will grow wings. Everyone knows it's true, and studies prove it. See how ambiguous that sounds?

From your English, I would assume you were either Balkan Slavonic, Eastern European Slavonic or come from a rural area of a Southern European country with a Latin-based language (either rural France or Rural Italy, but I'd bet you are not Hispanic), considering all of those regions are famed for production and widespread consumption of high quality Wine/Beer/Spirits with famous brand and region names, I seriously doubt that you haven't seen some sort of example of alcoholism (or at least notable cases of people binge drinking). Shit, I live in England and I've both heard and contributed to those "drunk retards doing feats notable of memorising" shit myself, and England has shit alcohol in comparison with its neighbouring Commonwealth states, let alone the rest of Europe (thus we resort to importing).

I'd also assume that you had a really close friend or relative who went through some sort of negative change as a result of substance abuse with weed as either their gateway drug or their Fait Accompli. It is always sad when that happens, but unfortunately is more deeply rooted: people that tend to do that either have self-motivational problems or a lack of ambition, or even more sadly just lack self-control, and their demise might have come in another way or form (be it weed, black tar heroin, drinking vodka at a party till they get their stomach pumped (had a friend in school have that happen to him), off-the-counter pharmaceuticals, overeating or frequenting BDSM clubs)
I'm not saying every weed smoker I've met is a MENSA candidate, but I've met a lot of people, both in real life and on the internet that have no formal education or training after school that do smoke weed on a somewhat regular basis that have incredible wit, street-smarts and a good sense of humour. I could go further and show examples but I cba disclosing that. (please note that despite all that, degenerate stoners do exist and I have seen my share of those as well, mostly while in school and doing my A-levels. And the other acquaintances of yours that you mention fail to appear as a "equilibrate, satisfied person": well how do you know weed is their catalyst? What if they have additional causes, such as living in a region they dislike and are unable to get out, relationship, financial or family problems, the above-mentioned "lack of drive/self-motivational problems" or are just borderline psychopaths who were unpredictable before being introduced to ganja and started to "smoke once or twice per week"? Every person is psychologically and biologically different, you might not know all the baggage they carry.

The conclusion

There are many people Worldwide suffering from alcoholism that never touched anything weed-related in their life that have ruined their lives based on their addiction. There are also degenerate stoners in the world, as well as many other categories of people that tend to abuse substances, illegal or not. And while THC-bearing marijuana is a drug (no matter what argument the Bongwater Brigade cna throw at you from "it's not a narcotic, man" to "if it grows from the earth, and is cultivated how can it be a drug?" (they should go to the Golden Triangle in the far east or Afghanistan)), and has potential for abuse and does come with negative effects on heavy or long-term users. However, there have been plenty of studies venturing into the potential medical benefits of marijuana as an anti-carcinogen or pain-number for people with incurable diseases.

Yes, it's sad and borderline pathetic when somebody has completely lost control and is attempting to rationalise it (like you mentioned some of your friends are), but try to confront any friend or acquaintance and ask them about their drinking problem. Even if they don't have a drinking problem, there is nothing they could retort with which would make it like they don't have a drinking problem and are just trying to deny it c:

Anyways, as memphis wrote in this thread, it is all about self-control, moderation and knowing your limits and metabolism capacity and respecting them. I'm not one of those "420 legalise it \m/" screamers, it's just fairly annoying when people spew non-empirical bullshit spearheaded by biased opinions as a result of personal experience with little to no factual evidence, which you seem to be doing.

TL;DR : 420 bl4ze 1t f4gg0t

you know what's 1337? marihuana cookies