102?

Which lineup?

According to their vk post, it's latrommi/421/pavel/cooller.

I wish ash was going

I think sparks said on his stream last night that rapha, zero4, br1ck and someone else were making a team. no idea what their name is though :P

Zero4 not interested in playing duel :(

He could still play ctf and tdm.

He will play those. But i wanted to see him duel

Since when?

Damn, did he say that? He did pretty well in duel last QuakeCon.

I cant remember how i heard it from

rapha/brick/zero4/clock

Ty for commin and confirming it! Best of quake to u guys!

who is whaz playing with, do you know?

He is not playing this year

And you?

.

Im split between seeing you and noctis win, but go get em!

whaz / brick / rapha / whoever will destroy everyone in ctf

Averagers actually look really strong.

102 has stacked vets that have played with each other before/and/or/a long time on a team.

Dahangs team looks kinda darkhorse to me. They are all very good, but, I really don't get what ties their gameplay together.

102, you have to historically go with as the safe bet, but Averagers looks stronger on paper to me, and the players/playstyles complement each other better.

Id viju and dahang are really well coordinated cuz they are basically former evil geniuses who were the dominant ctf team for quite a while. If anything averagers is the only team that appears random and without common experience.

Yes but no.

that was arousing

Solid -40 net by tox

Holy shit forgot that noctis was SUCH A BEAST in tdm. Point still stands tho. averagers have the least experience together out of the 4 mentioned.

Yes, that could become the main problem.

I expect rapha's team and dahang's to practice against each other (and maybe 1-2 additional teams) regularly in the months leading up to Quakecon. I think that's what they have done in 2009, 2010, and 2014.

But who will practice against Team Averagers? I really hope the European TDM and CTF scenes step up and provide a top team for Averagers to regularly practice against.

102?

Hopefully for TDM, yes. Even though it's not optimal regarding pings and timezones. Maybe a team like elite four in addition to this?

And they still need a CTF practice partner, because 102 won't come near the level of the American teams anytime soon.

You mean Team Elite Three Looking for Merc?

They practice everyday with MD.

Yeah... at the time of my post (March), there was no indication that there would be 2 more European teams (unknown and cypher's team) going to Quakecon.

Thought it was 20th of May :)

TDM is so much more fun to watch from one good players POV.

If we're forced to watch TDM at Qcon I hope to hell they remember this and teams designate their star players and we get to watch them mostly...

C O O L L E R
O
O
L
L
E
R

.

I hardly think you can guarantee 1st place to 102 in TDM.

.

Considering they won the last tdm lan undefeated iirc, it's not really a stretch

Cooller confirmed for Quakecon? He said some time ago he doesnt enjoys airplanes.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2715598/125fps-22-demos/

I guess

Guess his love for free vacations exceeds his terror to planes.

he doesn't enjoy falling airplanes

So far they're all random teams who'll do well in their own gamemode and terrible in the other, cept averagers, dem0n and spart1e can carry ctf!

I still wanna see winz linkin stermy tox, think they could dominate all 3 gamemodes!
Curious to see if Silencep comes up with a team too, Silencep spart1e dem0n +cypher would win all the gamemodes :D

I still wanna see winz linkin stermy tox

only a dream or they are planning to signup?

I've no idea, I just feel like that team could beat anyone else in any gamemode :D

Salivating Monsters could probably not only take ic, but take colwn too :P

"in any gamemode"
they could win tdm but they'd get fucked in ctf and duel ^^

Same bout tox stermy and company in ctf

Stermy is great at CTF, and winz and linkin are the best ctf duo there is as well :D

I've heard that last year

Don't think stermy was at qcon last year :D

ye it would have been worse ;o

No :D

.

http://www.sofsan.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/...126338.jpg

.

Please, do not remove this post ;)

.

its funny how hard americans try to win qcon. they even think of some bs tournament, so evil or cypher wont win :{D

Evil and cypher still can form their teams with a bunch of sub par americans and lose every team game but win duel

nope, because to play duel grand final you have to be in one of 2 best teams in tdm/ctf.

this tourney was just made for murican to win qcon, as they are strong in team modes, and with some luck, duel grand final will actually be rapha dahang.

To play in the duel grand final you have to be in one of the 2 best "teams" in duel. TDM/CTF results don't matter for it.

yes you're right,i misread the rules.

.

^ what he said

what i said to noctis. you were both rifgt

cant + you :/

Yah- because SyncError totally asks the community (Americans ofc, not euros) what type of tournament we want, and how the rules should be.

LOL.

shh, don't give those kind of secrets away

replace dem0n with tox and you have a winning team.

how rude.

dem0n is stronk.

They would maybe(!) slightly increase their chances in TDM. It's not sure how well tox would fit in the team, especially regarding practice times and communication.

More importantly, the trade-off would be to completely ruin any chance of doing decent in CTF. There is only one CTF player among spart1e/noctis/fazz/tox. According to his QLranks profile, tox has never played a single CTF game.

Considering the fact that the team wants to do well in all three modes, getting tox doesn't make any sense.

Whether tox increases their chances in duel really depends on how much spart1e/noctis/fazz practice it. If they are at the top of their game, I think their chances to get 2nd place in duel are the same as for tox.

If they are at the top of their game, I think their chances to get 2nd place in duel are the same as for tox.

lol

How many 2nd place finishes has tox had in his QL career? As far as I know, his 4th place at Quakecon 2014 was the best he's ever accomplished. He did beat rapha in that tournament, but he then immediately lost 0:3 against DaHanG.

That's what I mean with top of the game:

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1732454

1st: rapha
2nd: spart1e
3rd: cypher
4th: dahang

Or this:

http://esreality.com/post/1739480/gamescom-final-noctis-vs-rapha/

noctis was the betting favorite in the final against rapha back then. I don't doubt that he can do it again if he wants to.

Sure, noctis is the Neo of QL's Matrix, but he can't be bothered to play boring modes anymore.

Strenx once went into Quakecon as the favorite. It doesn't take a neo to achieve that.

I'm not saying noctis had the potential to be the best QL duel player ever, but I do think that his potential in QL duel is similar to tox' potential. Him placing 2nd at a major QL LAN, which tox has never accomplished, is one of the reasons for my belief.

What makes you think differently?

I don't think differently at all.

I'm just saying duel is boring so no wonder our hero prefers to play team modes!

Oh. It sounded like obvious sarcasm. Alright.

Now that I think of it, "getting 2nd place" isn't even the relevant outcome, because they will play a Swiss tournament system in duel.

So, the question is whether tox or spart1e will win more matches against rapha/dahang/cooller.

I think that tox will be the underdog against both dahang and cooller, because dahang beat him so badly in 2014 and cooller just recently proved he can win against aim monsters like him when he beat evil (who beat tox at Quakecon 2014).

Spart1e is a wildcard right now. He also lost to dahang in 2014. But if he's on form I think he has the same chances as tox.

Also note that Spart1e is the most successful QL player when it comes to performing well at all 3 major game modes. He has won Quakecon in TDM, he has won 2nd place in duel, and he has won 2nd place in CTF. I think that he will have the easiest time practicing for three game modes in parallel. Tox, on the other hand, apparently has never played a single match of CTF in QL. Getting his skill up there will severely limit the effort he can put into duel.

Remember that this isn't an isolated duel tournament. Maybe tox actually wins 2 out of 3 duel matches against the good opponents and spart1e would only win 1 out of 3 of those matches.

But having tox instead of dem0n could mean a ~6th place in CTF instead of a possible 3rd or even 2nd place. That would be a very bad trade-off.

considering tox played for one of the best eu tdm teams, he knows how to play ctf.. and yes he didnt play ctf in ql and yes times are different

but experience aint someting you lose overnight ....not for some people at least

considering tox played for one of the best eu tdm teams, he knows how to play ctf..

I don't get that part. How does playing TDM in ice climbers make him know how to play CTF?

I know that ice climbers played CTF at Quakecon 2004, but they didn't do well. They placed behind three actual CTF teams (aAa, gunzoids, and cloud9) and even another TDM team (519). They placed equally well as the team "Negative Influence" which consisted of Pangu, Shad, Alacrity, and pirpacQ. Does anyone know these guys? They played CTF just as good as ice climbers did...

If tox is given a narrow role in CTF, he should be able to fulfill it. But you won't win against any of the top 2-4 American teams by running things by the book.

Certainly, spart1e and dem0n will be the players to make the calls during the game. People seriously suggest exchanging someone who is considered a top 5 CTF player in Europe (dem0n) for someone who hasn't played CTF in ~10 years (tox). They suggest only having one CTF player (spart1e) in the team. Why would you do that if you are looking for a top 4 placement in CTF?

dahank team wins ctf, i dont see any possible constellations that might change that

^^^

Last year's Quakecon CTF tournament was won by:

ZeRo4, DaHanG, whaz, br1ck

Two of them (zero4 and br1ck) are now in rapha's team. I would not count this team out.

i consider id_ and vijou the driving forces in the team, i stand to my point

I understand that, but remember that the team I mentioned above (without id_ and viju) beat Unknown 2:0 at Quakecon 2014, while id_'s team went 2:3 against Unknown.

I think it will be very close between those two NA teams.

fair, i had the feeling that unknown was underperforming that game but you are right. i wish we could have private bets with esr money

No dutchies :(

yay

I would love to see fearzzz in some team.

me too ;x w/ evil fraze and camma :s

Av3k

Daddy_ / Detlew_W_w_Ww_w / serious / philiAN

daddy, czituch, amnesia haze, evil

sounds like a basketball team consisting of Verne Troyer, Peter Dinklage, Warwick Davies and Michael Jordan.

Peter Dunklage

dont jelly polak:D

S T R E N E X ?
T
R
E
N
E
X
?

https://twitter.com/strenx/status/578967984116477952

I wish him/them to find a sponsor, but it seems like impossible.

Don't think they'd be able to even content for top 3 at all, but it's always fun to see strenx at quakecon.

Well Cypher has his sponsor, Titan, let's be honest the other 3 aren't getting there.

Cypher isn't Titan anymore!

Whaaaaaat?! When did that happen?

Ages ago, 1 year i guess

His 1 year contract expired shortly after Qcon last year

didn't he earn enough by selling his quake trophies?

Yay Strenx!

Except his twitter feed is in some weird foreign language. Maybe it's been hax0r3d.

Je ne sais pas.

The Blood Dragons, which includes me and the rest are TBA.

a random assortment of tdm scrubs

also poland

Cypher, clawz, silencep, strenx (from strenx Facebook )

We need a sponsor first but it is definitely happing

someone needs to explain to strenx what definitely means

i'd donate to
cypher
silencep
winz
linkin

or evil silencep winz linkin

i think cyph>evil on some team modes no?? but that 4 is yeah, scary.

probably. i just like evil. also, evil played tdm at some dreamhack. with mikes cooller and jibo i think. cant rmber how he did

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOeuhJxEUlk

T O X ?
O
X
?

KYLE KYLE KYLE

honestly my take on the ctf side is that america always had the better teamplay in it, consistently over the years. Sure europe won some tourneys but overall usa won more as far as I know and that is the reason.

I am not quite biased btw, donated to team noctis and all so I would like them to win but they will face tough odds.

How many CTF LAN tournaments with both American and European teams attending have happened on American soil and how many on European soil? Nine out of ten in America? All of them in America?

I just checked the Q3 tournament history and it seems like there weren't any CTF LAN tournaments other than Quakecon in Quake 3.

Regarding Quakelive, no NA team was at The Party, so I don't think there has ever been a NA CTF team competing in Europe.

I imagine it's hard to win a LAN tournament when you've just travelled a couple of thousand miles for the first time in your life. I assume this applies to gunzoids and aAa in 2003, and to zyrinx/gerppa/exodus/silencep/dem0n in 2014.

Let's not forget that many European teams weren't formed according to the question of who has the best teamplay together, but rather who is willing and able to afford a trip to Quakecon on short notice.

If DreamHack had had a couple of CTF tournaments and EG would have won most of them, beating the likes of Unknown, DP, broken... we could draw the conclusion you have come to.

Cloud 9 won QLAN2 CTF.

Thanks. That kind of disproves my point, because as far as I know aAa, 32nd and wolfclaw were pretty strong teams in 2004.

I missed it because I searched for "CTF" and that abbreviation is not used for QLAN 2.

So that makes 5 LANs in America, and 1 LAN in Europe, if I'm not missing anything else.

Yeah, it was a good lineup of teams, in fact CTF, TDM and Duel all had great lineups at QLAN2. Definitely my favourite Q3 event of all time, can still remember watching as much of it as possible on GTV.

Digging a little further into QLAN2 coverage, I found this interview with cloud 9 after winning.

I thought I'd share it in case you don't know it or can't remember it. (I think I started really following Quake in 2005, so it seems like I just narrowly missed it.)

How would you compare the European competition to the American competition? Obviously there are more people who play q3 over there, but like the top 5 clans how do tehy compare to the american top 5?

yrim: i'd definitely say the top 5 euro clans are, 1-5, better than the top 5 american clans at the moment.
cl0ck: the european competition is by far the hardest competition i have ever faced, and ive been playing Q3CTF for about 3 years now, and appleseed in general is just insanely smart.

the coaching comment reminded on how huge a good coach was to have back in the day, I miss that :(

qlan2 was amnazing yeah!

It should also be noted that we had to learn 5v5 for this event which is COMPLETELY different than 4v4 and was absolutely unheard of/NEVER played in America at that time, let alone on the competitive maps.

Yes, this makes your win even more impressive in my opinion. You said in your interview that you had to adapt very quickly, because your tactics initially didn't work in 5v5 at all.

Was this also the case for aAa's win at Qcon 2004, because they weren't used to 4v4? I'd be interested to hear about your experience at Quakecon 2004.

I'm sorry for leaving out QLAN 2, it's been 11 years ago and I simply overlooked it.

No, this was not the case. 4v4 was actively played in EU during this time as there were clanbase/eurocup leagues for it and a lot of the top teams were very familiar with it/played in those leagues as well. 5v5 was NEVER and I mean NEVER played in the US up until this point. It was hard to even get practice for the event. Ultimately the community came together and (if my memory serves me right) created a 5v5 draft league mainly so we could practice for QLAN, like a month before the event. Other than that we played one of the few american teams that had an active rotating roster, negative influence(-i) nightly. Without those 2 things I dont think we could have won we simply didn't have enough time to scrim at the actual event.

Going from 5v5 to 4v4 is much easier and less complex than going from 4v4 to 5v5.

In 5v5 all you have to do is remove 1 player from your team. You still are leaving in the 2 players that know how to play high and low d, and the 2 players that know how to play offense together.

Going from 4v4 to 5v5 is much different and way more challenging. You are now bringing on someone new that you are very unfamiliar with (in this case it was czm). This player now has to learn how to play the role of the 5th man (which was usually a dedicated mid position, atleast for us it was). They have to learn how to control a part of the map rather then a flag and control the major items (weapons, powerups) that are there as well. Other things were also very annoying to deal learn, for example, the rest of the team (mainly the offense) now has to deal with being spawned on (fresh spawns right next to you or the risk of them spawning next to you more frequently).

4v4 was actively played in EU during this time as there were clanbase/eurocup leagues for it

Are you sure?

The Eurocup IX in 2004 was played 5v5 according to the rules.

There's also this quote:

RiGHT: What will xyz's likely lineup be?
redemz: linkin, deus, martel, derfel, kilem and me

As he mentions 6 names, it should be 5v5 plus coach. Quite certainly not 4v4.

And judging from this, the CTF nationscup in 2004 was also played 5v5.

Yes I am sure. Eurocup/clan had countless different divisions and several different rulesets for each mod. Hundreds of teams. If not eurocup then there were other leagues that were 4v4 during this era. It may be hard for you to believe but not every piece of historical data is regarding quake is googlable. Much was lost.

It's just that what you claimed about EuroCup was wrong. So I have no reason to believe you anymore about this.

(Even if OpenCup was 4v4, which I doubt, the top teams were playing in EuroCup, which was 5v5.)

No need to lecture me on the Clanbase system, I have played in OpenCups and EuroCups myself.

No, it wasnt wrong youre just an idiot. This took me all but 4 seconds to find.

"Eurocup/clan had countless different divisions and several different rulesets for each mod." -- that should have read Eurocup/clanbase and was a type-o, but should be obvious.

Anyway...

http://www.sk-gaming.com/member/aAa_appleseed

Year 2004
3/4th @ ClanBase Nations Cup #7 Q3 CTF
5/6th @ ClanBase Nations Cup #7 Q3 RA3
3/4th @ ClanBase Open Cup Q3 TDM
1st @ Savage Devastation #2 Q3 Threewave
1st @ Jolt DML #11 - Div 1 Q3 TDM
2nd @ FRGA Quake #2 Q3 Duel
3rd @ FRGA Quake #2 Q3 CTF
2nd @ FRGA Quake #2 Q3 TDM
1st @ European RA3 Cup - Div 2 Q3 RA3
5th @ Q3LFR Summer Cup #2 Q3 RA3
1st @ Savage Devastation #1 Q3 Threewave
4th @ ClanBase Summer Cup 4v4 Q3 CTF


If anything we shouldn't believe the shit you're pasting from google because youre obviously too retarded to research it properly.

As I said, there were countless leagues and tournaments playing 4v4 in EU. I'm confident eurocup (which was related to clanbase I believe, regardless even if it wasnt who cares) ran 4v4 events as well.

That's the SummerCup, not the EuroCup. These are competely distinct tournaments, not different divisions. My conclusion about the EuroCup was correct and your claim about it was wrong.

I didn't check the SummerCup. You are correct, it was 4v4.

It started at the end of July and ended on the 9th of August; Quakecon started at the 12th of August.

So they probably had this tournament partly in preparation for Quakecon.

As I said, there were countless leagues and tournaments playing 4v4 in EU. I'm confident eurocup (which was related to clanbase I believe, regardless even if it wasnt who cares) ran 4v4 events as well.

I don't believe you. In appleseed's list, it is the only tournament he notes as being 4v4. I think that is indicative of how much of an exception it was. Feel free to prove me wrong ...

Alright well, I don't really care what you believe- nor about this topic anymore. This is like some guy sitting the nose-bleed section of a soccer(or "football") match yelling to one of the exiting players that the grass wasn't wet as he slips in the mud.

I was there, you weren't. Bottom line.

You were in Europe in 2004 and I wasn't? That's an even more stupid claim than your previous ones...

I was playing in the actual games and you were watching from miles away wishing that you were like that fanboy you are, was the analogy I was going for.

You were playing in European online tournaments in 2004? Because you claim to be an expert on them...

Yah actually I was. I played for HoQ. Played with DeXTeR and williebobc in several clanbase/eurocup tournaments. Lived in Boston and pinged 75.

Actually it was team [QQ] Quad Quakers w/ DeXTeR then HoQ shortly after

EDIT: [QQ] I actually think I joined QQ (or atleast started scriming with them in late 2002/early 2003 and then left right before QLAN2 in mid-2004 and started playing with HoQ. Hard to remember those days though.

EDIT 2: Found this article outlining [QQ]'s history and noting me on the team.

http://www.esreality.com/post/646521/quadquakers-the-history/

I think june 9th and "6 months" thing was the start-finish of whatever eurocup or clanbase season was during that time and thats why that specific date is noted as me joining, but I was definitely apart of the team from an early date as well and didn't officially leave until the start of whatever the next season was where I played with HoQ- which I'm pretty sure was early-mid 2004.

Assuming that this is true, it doesn't prove that there were "countless 4v4 leagues" in 2003/2004, let alone that the top teams were playing in those leagues. Nor does it confirm your claim of a 4v4 Eurocup.

You *may* be right, but considering that all of your claims about tournaments so far have been either wrong or lacking any sort of evidence, I can't possibly believe you.

Lol. You are the modern day Jamerio.

I found a nice site to look this stuff up: http://www.dimensionx.be/?show=warpage
Your team QQ (without you playing) had a 5v5 match in the Clanbase Spring Cup 2004.

Here's a list of the other 5v5 tournaments in 2003/2004 that I found:

2004 Clanbase Q3 CTF ladder
2004 Jolt S14
2004 Clanbase Fall Cup
2004 Jolt PCZ cup
2004 Jolt S13
2004 SAC CTFL S12
2003 SAV X-Mas
2003 Barrysworld S12
2003 Barrysworld S11
2003 Clanbase Benelux cup
2003 Clanbase OpenCup Spring
2003 Barrysworld S10


I actually found one 4v4 tournament in 2003, the 2003 Clanbase Summer Cup.

Summing it up (and including the 4v4 summer cup 2004, as well as the 5v5 eurocups in 2003 and 2004), as far as I can tell, there have been:

14 leagues with 5v5 in 2003/2004
2 leagues with 4v4 in 2003/2004


That's quite a bit off from your "countless 4v4 leagues" claim.

Owned? ;)

But please keep telling me the leagues I played in/say happened didn't exist.

4on4 was only played during Summercups? When people wasnt playing, but beeing outside ? :)

How drunkard are we getting in Texas this year man?

2.8 promille ;)

Spoken like a true Finn

He's from Switzerland, retarf

I wonder who is retarf here

Actually the line-up for the Summercup was pretty sick, wasn't it?

32nd, eX, S?, xYz, gunzoids, broken, sh, medusa, oMg

I'm inclined to assume that they decided to have this one-time 4v4 tournament as a special preparation for Quakecon where both aAa and gunzoids would attend. Or am I reading too much into this?

Right, because they wouldnt have done this before qcon2003, where both gunzoids and aAa attended and was 4v4 as well, right? Or it just didn't happen because you can't google it?

Yes, I doubt that they did.

You didn't practice 5v5 before coming to Europe either. And as you said, adjusting from 5v5 to 4v4 isn't as difficult. It's very likely that the European teams didn't practice 4v4 in 2003 because (a) they didn't consider it necessary and (b) they hated 4v4.

It seems completely logical that they did a one-time 4v4 tournament in 2004 because they really wanted to beat you this time. And incidentally they did.

It's kinda unfortunate that none of the players from that time are active on ESR, because they would probably confirm all of this and prove to you just how arrogantly clueless you are.

You keep going from "I'm sure" "you're wrong" etcetc to "I doubt" and "would probably".

So which is it?

"I'm sure" about there never being a 4v4 Eurocup. There weren't many Eurocups so that is relatively easy to prove. This was your initial claim and it's still wrong.

"Probably" about the top teams only playing in that one 4v4 tournament in 2004. That's pretty hard to prove because I would have to check every single tournament. Your relevant claim was that the top teams participated in lots of 4v4 tournaments. I can't easily prove it wrong, but it is unlikely.

"You're wrong" about there being "countless" 4v4 tournaments in 2004 because 5v5 was more accepted back then.

As i Said, 4on4 was only played on summercups.

Also, now that we're taking this trip down memory lane- Now that I think about it I'm quite confident that 5v5 was adopted/became mainstream around late 2002/early 2003 and everything leading up to that point was primarily/soley 4v4.

Also here in deus frag video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AxqjhhfIwg

You can read in the video description where he outlines where the frags came from, but I will paste because you've demonstrated how much of a moron you are

"The greater part of the sequences comes from official games, sometimes Clanbase Eurocup games TDM 2v2 and 4v4 or CTF 5v5 (playing for Gunzoids, IronFist, or even EYE). "


Learning how to (properly) use google is one of the many benefits of obtaining a job in your youth. This should help id_'s argument.

This doesn't confirm that there ever was a 4v4 Eurocup because there wasn't one. Many European players will tell you this (like spart1e just did). Your claim is still wrong.

Did he?

4on4 was only played during Summercups?

This is to be read as: "Are you aware that 4on4 was only played during Summercups?"

Summercups != Eurocups

My research (http://esreality.com/post/2722372/re-qcon-2015-teams/#pid2722372) is in accordance with this. I found exactly two 4v4 tournaments in 2003/2004, which are the two clanbase summercups.

I think some of this confusion comes from you not being able to distinguish clanbase from eurocup.

Clanbase had lots of tournament each year (spring cup, summer cup, fall cup) that weren't particularly prestigious. All teams could participate in these cups.

Clanbase has one tournament per year called "Eurocup" which is by far the most prestigious one. Only the best teams of Europe get invited to it. Eurocups sometimes had LAN finals and prize money.

There wasn't even a CTF Eurocup each year, so there really weren't many of them. In some years, there only was a TDM Eurocup.

Because the Eurocup is the most prestigious online-based tournament (with occasional LAN finals), it was naturally held in the popular 5v5 mode which was considered the proper CTF mode.

"new that you are very unfamiliar with (in this case it was czm)"

I remember him absolutely beasting in this example so this wasnt as big as an issue in the end :X

I have by now confirmed that the 2003 Eurocup also was 5v5. (Of course, this isn't suprising at all.)

Also note that at the 2003 eurocup, the standings were:

1. 32nd
2. aAa
3. gunzoids

And in 2004:
1. GoS
2. xYz
3. aAa

Gunzoids didn't even participate in 2004.

In other words: in 2003, the #2 and #3 team went to Quakecon.

In 2004, the #3 team and an inactive team went to Quakecon. The #3 team of Europe then won the tournament.

So much about Europe "consistently sending their best team" which you have obviously claimed without having a clue about it.

Owned again?

(It goes without saying that the 2009 and 2010 fnatic "teams" weren't actual teams, because they included inactive players like fox and stermy who aren't even CTF players. This has been explained ad nauseam already. I thought it would be interesting to shed a light on 2003 and 2004).

.

Throw an EU LAN tournament with some money up for grabs, I'd be more than happy to attend.

"Let's not forget that many European teams weren't formed according to the question of who has the best teamplay together, but rather who is willing and able to afford a trip to Quakecon on short notice."

QuakeCon is every year, there's no harm in putting away some money starting September, worse comes to worse you have some disposable income.

Throw an EU LAN tournament with some money up for grabs, I'd be more than happy to attend.

That's what I assumed and I hope I didn't imply differently. It's really a shame that when we had big tournaments in Europe (ESL, Dreamhack, ...) they almost exclusively were duel tournaments, with the rare exception of one TDM tournament.

QuakeCon is every year, there's no harm in putting away some money starting September, worse comes to worse you have some disposable income.

That's true in theory, but many of the most active online teams in Europe have usually consisted of players in the 18-21 years range. They often aren't in a place of their lives where they have the opportunities of saving ~$2,000.

That's why veteran players like fox and deus came to Quakecon in 2009 and 2010, even though they were among the least active players at the time.

That's just the way it is. We can put some blame on the players, but by no means all of it.

There is no reason you can't have part time jobs between the ages of 18-21...lol. And those years had money for 2nd/3rd/4th where you can recoup some money....or just fuck it all and ask for donations. rooof

Meh, I'm not here to defend or explain the decision of players for not going to Quakecon. That wasn't the point.

The point was that it is something that should be taken into consideration. In 2009 and 2010, the European CTF teams at Quakecon weren't the best possible teams. That's a fact. Cl0ck has said that Europe has "consistently sent their best team". That is wrong.

I think your root point is simply EU>USA. Nothing more, nothing less. Wouldn't matter if we were talking about Quake, or if the national park system is better in whatever country. Blind hatred.

The 'Muricans haven't done anything wrong here. They've taken the opportunities that were given to them, they didn't limit EUs. And apparently a US team went to an EU lan and won during a more active era.

?

I think your root point is simply EU>USA.

No, not at all.

My main point is that the truth is heavily distorted with statements such as "We have consistently beaten the best possible European team for 8 years in a row" (this was actually said by cl0ck and is completely wrong in many aspects).

I'm just pointing out the many ways in which these types of statements are wrong or at least misleading.

And apparently a US team went to an EU lan and won during a more active era.

True. However, in 2004 an European team won Quakecon CTF. So it went the other way around, too. And this was done by the third best European team at the time. Which leads me to another issue:

What really confuses me is how incompatible cl0ck's statements from 2004 are with what he says now. In 2004, he literally said that the top 5 European teams are better than the top 5 NA teams. There's simply no reason to believe that the Europe scene suddenly forgot how to play CTF and hasn't relearned it until today. But that's what he's implying. It sounds delusional.

rroooffflll

Very good savings tip everyone!

C O O L L E R
O
O
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L
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My picks

TDM: 102
CTF: Averagers/Dahangs team
DUEL: Raphas team

this needs more winz/l1nkin

/TOX!

With the current teams listed my guess it will play out something like this

TDM

1) Team Averagers - Fazz / Noctis / Dem0n / Spart1e
2) 102 - latrommi / 421 / pavel / cooller
3) Raphas team (name?) - rapha / br1ck / zero4 / clock


CTF

1) Raphas team (name?) - rapha / br1ck / zero4 / clock
2) Dahangs team (name?) - Dahang / id_ / kgb / viju
3) Team Averagers - Fazz / Noctis / Dem0n / Spart1e

DM

1) rapha
2) cypher
3) cooller



I would love to see a tox/l1nkin/winz/ph0enX team sent. Also players like sparks and proZaC have yet to announce their teams.

TDM Winner: Averagers
CTF Winner: EG + KGB
Duel: Cypher

HAAAAARDOOOO GAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY

It's happening folks! The highly anticipated ultimate grand final showdown supermatch megabrawl between Captain "cl0ck" Hope of America vs Europe's Pride and Joy "Scowl" is finally going to take place this Su-su-su-su-SUNDAE!!!111 So stay tuned and oh wait nobody gives a fuck

EG will rape everyone in CTF, including this cl0ck person no matter how many raphas are in their team. Also lol for all-times-second-place-kgb who finally gets a chance to win a tournament at quakecon.

TDM remains to be seen but if 102 manages to show up then is gg.

Finally, if rapha pulls out another fiasco like last year then Cypher already won.


This makes:

CTF Winner: EG
TDM Winner: 102
Duel Winner: Cypher

TDM remains to be seen but if 102 manages to show up then is gg.

I think the TDM god known as Noctis will have something to say about that.

EG will rape everyone in CTF, including this cl0ck person no matter how many raphas are in their team. Also lol for all-times-second-place-kgb who finally gets a chance to win a tournament at quakecon.

It's not EG .... I don't see clampOK on the roster. What QCON has kgb's godlike aim shown up too? It hasn't happen in the 6 or so he's been too. That's not saying he hacks just doesn't play as well live as he does online. If he could play from his hotel room that might be different story. If anyone can carry him to a QCON title it will be id_ and viju the best two CTF players of the past 10 or so years in NA and arguably the world.

The team of ZeRo4, br1ck, DaHanG, whaz won it last year and 2 of the member's are back and while whaz played insanely well last year cl0ck his replacement seems to have gotten off to an early start in preparing for this year's event over his usually half ass'ed 2-3mos before hand. cl0ck should be an upgrade over whaz. It will come down too if rapha put's as much time into CTF at the sake of DM as he did last year. If he does him and DaHanG are pretty even in terms of CTF.

I thought the kgb thing was funny as well. Looks like he finally found a team to carry him to win a CTF tournament on LAN.

Is cyphers team confirmed yet? Only one person on a team can duel right? So strenx and clawz would go all the way to tx and not duel???

I think they're both super fine with that.

Strenx for sure. Remember how it went last year? Strenx doesn't care anymore, or whatever else it's the reason.
Going to this one is a free vacation, + the possiblity of being carried to easy moneys.

But i think Cypher's team is the weakest overall, and only good for duel, where Cypher is the defending champion and the definite favourite, considering Rapha's last year disastrous performance.

Performance that won't be much better this year probably, because let's be realists, you can't practice for world level feasting on 1700-2000 eloers. You need to practice against active big guns, and Dahang isn't available anymore.

Clawz is super interesting and the hottest thing around, but let's be real, it's his first LAN ever, he's too green, he doesn't have enough experience even for duel, his strongest gamemode, and in the other ones he's even greener.

Strenx will probably be near useless, in every game mode. It's all up to Cypher and Silencep, good luck against other stacked teams.

Clawz is super interesting and the hottest thing around, but let's be real, it's his first LAN ever, he's too green, he doesn't have enough experience even for duel, his strongest gamemode, and in the other ones he's even greener.

Apparently he's more of a CTF player.

Hmmm, apparently so, but not (yet) a top one. Probably he'll do better than strenx, anyway.

The funny thing is that Rapha was beaten by tox, whose usual practice partners are like 1500 elo.

The proof is in the pudding. Tox got dismantled by everyone else, like he always do.

Performance that won't be much better this year probably, because let's be realists, you can't practice for world level feasting on 1700-2000 eloers. You need to practice against active big guns, and Dahang isn't available anymore.

People have been saying for this years, it's never stopped rapha from winning tournaments...

Well, it did, indeed, right last year. And when it didn't stop him, it hindered him.

How can it say it hindered him when he won every tournament for like two years? Looking at a single loss while ignoring all his wins doesn't prove your point

I'm laughing at the desperate way you're trying to prove your indefendible point.

Of course not having the possibility to spar with top players hinders you. This is a no brainer.

Try to prove that it's actually better not to play against top players. Or if you want to avoid that embarrassment, just shut up and avoid to corner yourself even more.

Whether it hinders him or not is actually irrelevant.

Rapha has won roughly every second major duel tournament he attended. There is no reason to believe that his capability of winning has suddenly changed. His not winning Quakecon 2014 does not influence his chances in 2015.

Wheter it hinders him or not, actually, matters a lot.

There are, also, reasons to believe his form have diminshed.
And his not winning quakecon 2014 is related to his future performance in the 2015 one the same way being the defending champion makes you favorite, while coming off a loss (and a disastrous one) makes your stack to decrease. Unfortunately the absence of competition in the NA scene makes it harder to judge his real actual level.

being the defending champion makes you favorite

At Quakecon 2009, cypher was the defending champion. Rapha won and cypher only placed 3rd.
At Quakecon 2010, rapha was the defending champion. Cypher won and rapha only placed 5th.
At Quakecon 2011, cypher was the defending champion. Rapha won and cypher got eliminated in the round of 16.
At Quakecon 2012, rapha was the defending champion. Cypher won and rapha only placed 3rd.
At Quakecon 2013, cypher was the defending champion. Rapha won [and cypher didn't compete]
At Quakecon 2014, rapha was the defending champion. Cypher won and rapha only placed 5th.

See a pattern there? Being the defending champion actually has a long history of not meaning anything at Quakecon. Cypher has already been the defending champion twice (in 2009 and 2011) and then didn't make it to the finals. If anything, we should conclude that rapha is quite likely to win this year.

while coming off a loss (and a disastrous one)

Meh, losing against tox is not disastrous for rapha. Players like tox are simply his Achilles' heel, just like stermy or k1llsen were.

Being the defending champion almost always makes you the favourite, in every sport. It's useless to nitpick to try to debate this universal point. At least it could be argued about a quakecon curse, but you get the meaning.

And more than losing to tox (that still is pretty bad, given how tox never achieved anything in quake live), it's the way he lost. He often had the match in his hands, but he lost his usual coolness and looked even clueless at times.

maybe that had something to do with tox breaking the game

Doubt it. Tox always plays the same, and his strenght is one and one only. He hits ultra hard. What was really different was rapha's approach, he didn't look in control of his game and made various free mistakes. That rapha would have get wrecked by that cypher.

Performance that won't be much better this year probably, because let's be realists, you can't practice for world level feasting on 1700-2000 eloers.

You said his performance won't improve because he doesn't have top players to play against, but as I pointed out that has always been the case. Even so, he dominated LANs.

Of course not having the possibility to spar with top players hinders you.

I am asking you how it hindered him when he won everything? Is your point that he didn't reach his full potential (even though he still won)? If so, what has that got to do with his performance last year (since we already established that he can win even without lots of practice partners)?

Try to prove that it's actually better not to play against top players.

Why would I do that when I never said that was the case?

"You said his performance won't improve because he doesn't have top players to play against, but as I pointed out that has always been the case. Even so, he dominated LANs. "

I never said his performance won't improve this year. I merely suggested that, given how much he struggled last year, partially because of his lack of sparring partners, his training likely won't be much better this year. Last year, like this year, Dhanag won't be available for duel session. And it showed.

"I am asking you how it hindered him when he won everything?"

And i am asking you, since what i said is just common sense, and no sane person would even argue that, how do you explain your theory that training against lower level of competitions doesn't hinder you?

By the fact he still managed to win? But this only speaks about his natural talent and abilities. There are athletes that smokes and do drugs, and eat junk food.
Since they still win, according to your logic, junk food, smoking and taking drugs, doesn't hinder your performance.

Solid logic, indeed. Why did you even enter in an argument you know you had no chance of winning, at the cost of benidng the reality of facts, it's beyond me.

But keep going, i dare you.

You keep trying to tell me what my argument is even though I've directly stated that is not what I am arguing.

Since they still win, according to your logic, junk food, smoking and taking drugs, doesn't hinder your performance.

I've already addressed this. That's not what I am arguing.

Solid logic, indeed. Why did you even enter in an argument you know you had no chance of winning, at the cost of benidng the reality of facts, it's beyond me.

But keep going, i dare you.

ill rek u i swear on me mum

Ending every post with this childish posturing makes you seem emotional.

The one that is trying to tell me what my argument is, it's you. Since you're trying to twist your way out of the corner you put yourself in, let's return to the origin, shall we?

Lets go: i said Rapha is hindered by the lowest quality of practice he can get in the NA scene, a point that really, is like saying the sky is blue.

You said practice quality doesn't makes you train better or worse, and that since he won in the past, it means nothing.

Explain that, if you can. But you can't, because what you said is just objectively wrong.

And you're the one that looks emotional, to me. Otherwise you wouldn't have jumped in pointless and childish argumentations.

I usually don't get involved with ESR posting, but Rapha does have good practice in NA. Rapha to players like Sparks, dkt, and Chance is the same as Evil is to players like Dem0n, Fazz, and Base.
I talked to Tox (the person that knocked Rapha out) about his training pre-Quakecon and he explained to me in depth why he chooses lower skilled players to practice against: They don't punish every mistake. Against a lower tier player you can make mistakes and still win, so it allows you to practice what you aren't as good at without being punished for it. I'm terrible with rockets. If I used rockets in more situations I would lose against people my skill level. But, if I practice against lower skill players I will still win and get to practice my rockets in more situations. This would allow me to become a better player overall than if I just try to practice what I already know against people my skill level.

You are also using a lot of glaring logical fallacies in your post.

I never said he doesn't have good practice. He has, of course, some good, really good even, players to practice with. But they are few, and not world level, except Dahang.

"Rapha to players like Sparks, dkt, and Chance is the same as Evil is to players like Dem0n, Fazz, and Base. "

But on top of that, Evil, or whoever else in the european scene, can practice with Cypher, arguably the strongest quake player ever and the clean favourite to the top positions at quakecon; and this, alone, makes a big difference; plus, all the other masters of the game: cooller, spartie, killsen, and countless others that we all know and it's even pointless to list.

At least the other years Rapha and Dahang practiced together; and Dahang is good in every aspect of the game, a skilled veteran that has the potential to beat anybody else on lan; not the mindset to actually do it, but that's a non issue in online practice.

Without him, Rapha has no top player to put some good sparring in.

Regarding tox, yes i knew why he claims to practice the way he does; you even forgot another point he said, wich is that he practice against the map, not the opponent; but that's all pointless, because the results have constantly shown that tox is often clueless and caught on surprise by real top players; wheter that comes from crushing cans only, or other aspects, it's difficult to say, but it doesn't make his technique a good one.

"You are also using a lot of glaring logical fallacies in your post."

I don't.

We also don't know how good Rapha would be if he got year round access to playing Cypher, K1llsen, Evil, Cooller etc.

Rapha's biggest strength is strategy, which he can't really exercise too much here. Tox's biggest strength is aim, which he can practice against lower level guys.

Sure Rapha can practice aim against lower level guys, but he would make the best gains I think if he could practice both things.

Exactly, unfortunately. For years he even could only practice against bots and watching demos because he didn't have access to a good connection. A shame.

where the fuk si poland

In jail

What team will have the largest net weight?

Avengers cause of fazz's glasses ofc.

Colwn could be present. Stermy says that they are talking about it.

would be so awesome

said when where how

Stermy's fb

If clown does infact go it would make for the strongest quakecon in the QL era.

It looks like Dahang's team is "_btc_" (breaking the curse).

.

RoFL

Win-Win for scowl I guess :D

glad kgb finally is getting a shot at #1

FU adren

that isn't very nice

Any word on what team sparks will be on? He's been going pretty hard past little while and streaming a lot as well. Some of the top players who have yet to publicly announce their plans

NA

sparks
whaz
psygib
wonko
Effortless
dkt
Avenged


EU

tox
stermy
l1nkin
winz

Some of the top players

Oh, you!

in comparison to yourself? xD

.

Only NA guy that might work with is sparks, it'd be useless for most NA players to team up with euros since they couldn't practice prior to the event and would get raped. would be great if someone actually managed to make it work though :)

.

wonko...burgers...LOL

My predictions:

DaHanG , id_ + the other 2 guys will win > CTF & TDM

Rapha vs Cypher in duel finals, rapha can't handle the LAN lg, cypher wins.

You heard it here first KHEDDDDD

My prediction: A Euro team will win Duel and TDM (102 or noctis).

Needs more linkin

Pillbox <3

wow, so amazingly bland

Myself and my three nieces ages 5-9 yrs old will be forming a team "Frozen"
We will win.

at least tox will have some new training partners

.

There's most likely a team from Southern Murika coming as well with doom and cod but I don't know the other 2.

no ukn this year?

Noctis going to rape the TDM obviously.

Rapha taking duel back. I'm waiting for his level up. Rapha pushed cypher into neo-mode. Rapha needs to up his game now to match that shit.

CTF going to be won by... who gives a shit it's ctf


I just hope they fucking stream dat tdm quaters+ because ctf is pretty boring to me

I love watching CTF, but I wonder if theres a way to create a fun competitive version of 1 flag CTF because that would be way better for spectators

.

stream dat tdm quaters+

wat?

It seems the team gHs from Chile are going this year. They are pretty strong on CTF.

gHs: fack1u - Mesita - Vodkax - Koraza

Also doomsday and Cod are working on a team for going this year.

I want to go but i can find players to make a team to suit the level of the event and with the money to go. Its expensive for us... for real

I see Evil and Tox practicing.

This tells me that DaHank will not pull a dale from king of the Hill, and not choke. Double negativies

fazz's team looking stronk @ ctf :o

.

yo, the games were on fazz's stream from like 5 days ago or something?

I'm not @ home or even on a pc/laptop atm so I can't link you anything, but basically they beat cypher's team by a lot and roughed up some mixed teams on a few maps. They still have a few maps they don't look that comfortable on, but I'd say they look the best out of the European teams that are attending qcon atm.

With some practice I definitely think they could compete with some american teams.

IC

Tox and l1nkin warming up on ironworks right now, is colwn going finally?

they're still looking for sponsor, afaik

with winz i guess and whos the 4th?

they were talking about zyrinx

Bricks just said in chat that he got replaced with sparks since he had a fight with z4 or something

ya apparently its z4's way or the highway on that team. but i was under the impression that rapha/brick were good friends. apparently not good neough =p

z4 is the alpha dog in the quake NA sence and always calls the plays for his teams. Hard to argue with someone who has had the successes he's had. Sparks is an upgrade especially for TDM over br1ck which is probably why they made the move. Also rapha/br1ck may be pals but z4 was a mentor to rapha.

bad move, my boy br1ck > sparks in team games IMO.

bump

Better thread : http://www.esreality.com/post/2734703/quakecon-2015-hype/