apparently no console as its not the IDtech engine

Doesn't matter if it's not idtech engine, console can still be there :)

Compared with doing a game like QC, adding a console is like childs play. Its more a design decision.

My guess is no console, everything they want you to be able to change will be in a menu

That would be the perfect example of ignorant faggotry.

Why would it be? The console and/or the ability to autoexec stuff is nice, but im pretty sure you will be able to backup a quakechampions.cfg anyway. As long as noone has brightskins and picmip 16 the playing field is even. Thats what counts.

Ye, that "noone has brightskins" is a part of that ignorant faggotry as well.

If you want to ignore a potentially good game because you won't be able to showcase your notepad skillz - you are welcome.

I'd call that ignorant faggotry though. :)

Like you don't need proper forcemodel brightskins in a "modern" arena shooter.













: *

there was no console in the build presented at pax

DOOM console was both hidden, and had all of it's settings aggressively hidden in all versions before release also.

I was able to use the console to get a r_picmip 16 look in DOOM , had no problems that I can remember. Autocomplete on commands helped.

"in all versions before release". I should have said almost all settings locked and/or hidden though, not all.

More than any console, I'll miss the ability to bind keys to commands and the simple but effective config commands like bind, set, vstr, and alias.

Who knows, maybe there will be some sort of config file that is more than a just a list of values for settings.

Or maybe we are spoilt, and this level of configuration is too much power.

This, I'd prefer a more constrained config modifcation set to be honest, just for the sake of consistency. I know some people will disagree

The advantage to that is that players will not feel obliged to spend hours coming up with elaborate configs to be competitive.

The more configurability you put in a game, the more time people will have to spend discovering the right config. It also creates a disadvantage to players who don't know much about configs or are not inclined to fiddle with them. Y'know, maybe they'd rather spend their time playing the game than configuring the software.

Reflex took this sort of thing to a whole new level, and the fact that widgets like this one exist is bloody cringeworthy: http://i.imgur.com/V7JXK9X.gif

That said, one of the most popular uses of quake's config system is to set up different settings for each gun, like sens, accel, fov, zoomfov, xhair, and drawgun.

I reckon a lot of people will be upset if that is taken away.

Lol that Reflex widget is a joke. Please don't tell me that game has a competitive scene if something like that exists.

My feeling is, if it's not important enough to someone's skill set, they shouldn't care if it's not an option. If it is, it's somewhat of an unfair advantage.

So if there isn't a lot of adjustability they'll just have to get over it, because it isn't going to make or break anything for the large majority of players, pros included (i hope)

Sens and Accel obviously being exceptions

In defense of Reflex, I don't think this widget works anymore, since they changed their views on timers, but it is an example of the downside of too much configurability, and that's why I mentioned it.

My thinking is that if some setting provides near universal advantage, it should be enabled by default in the stock game. The only reason not to put it in the stock game is that it is ugly or unappealing, in which case, putting the setting in the game as an option will force every competitive player to use an ugly, unappealing config.

Everyone should be playing more or less the same game with some options to help them be comfortable rather than gain advantage over others through configuration.

yeah yeah hours.

Anyone above mouth breather levels will look at "game options" and customization first before they join a game.

Oh well I've seen hundreds of the same posts on the official forums and here about "how does this not work" "why does that not work" "why did I ruin my cfg with execing some stupid stuff???"

QL didn't do bad in that compartment. You'd have decent standard options and keybinds (weapons!), minus the music and 1-2 distracting options (kickback). But still the ability to configure a lot of stuff too.

In their own best interest they limit the options more, I'm fully in agreement, but customization is great if you know what you're doing and not only following the advice of anonymous idiots on bad forums.

One thing that CSGO does very well is the shadow option. You'll see more "information" in game if you put it on the higher setting. ID needs to do that in as many regards as possible to gather hardware sponsors too. I want to see the pros set textures at max to have the best contrast between enemy models and environment. I want them to set resolution, A-Aliasing,... on max to have the least distraction from let's say your own weapons. Directional light + enemy shadows like in CS. Default sound options for the best positional audio..etc....

Yeah, virtually every game has some built-in UI where you can change a few basic settings, and most players will take a look at those before playing. I'm sure QC will have that too.

That really isn't what I was talking about.

Even people who know very well what they are doing may invest a lot of time tweaking their config if they have that ability. Maybe you are not one of them.

I'm not suggesting changes to prevent morons from damaging their configs. I'm suggesting we liberate people from the need to continually feel they can squeeze out a drop more of advantage by spending another hour piss farting around with their config file.

I'd like some customization that is about comfort, enjoyment, and getting a half-decent frame rate rather than advantage-seeking.

Even the per-gun settings that are so common could be implemented with a UI listing static options for each gun. Doing so will make it more apparent to the average user what options even exist.

Do you think the following settings would be sufficient per-gun configuration? sens, accel, fov, zoomfov, xhair, drawgun, gun translucency, gun position, hitbeeps, what else?

There is no real reason to be able to execute any arbitrary string of console command whenever you press or release a key or button---as much as doing so and coming up with novel configs has appealed to my geeky nature in the past.

On the other hand, if certain settings are not available in the first place, there probably isn't a lot of harm to having a basic QL-style config system based on things like bind, set, vstr, and alias.

The console is also handy as a shortcut to navigating through the UI.

The exec command is also handy if you use slightly different settings for different game modes.

I still think the most powerful options, like per-gun settings, should be represented in the menus.

Too much power?


lol


The basics of the basics.

Basic for you and me at least. Not a quake skill. Just a nerd skill.

And goes with Quake, hand in hand.

It wouldn't really bother me one way or the other. It's really just about doing yet another heretical thing to get the player base most of us want.

I'm assuming you have no problem with the idea of having console options replicated in the menus---at least those options that are the source of most advantage.

I'd actually prefer a stock game that doesn't really require a lot of changes through configuration to be comfortable and suitable for the competitive player. Just have one simple option like "ultra mode" to enable all the crap casual players need to beautify the game.

I tend to start writing *.cfgs manually from a blank text document. I think you can guess my answer.

Well, that seems like a completely different kind of fun to playing quake. :P

You'll understand most people don't get their jollies that way.

A quake without a console? Ffs what a pos.

no carmack no console :c

I hadn't considered this in awhile.

Wonder how his involvement would of effected the final product of Quake Champions :D

idtech 13, released in 2028

there better be a console
we need to be able to change the position of the guns x,y,z
also alot of other things, like crosshairs for each gun and so on.

also graphical settings, i want to turn off ever bit of motin-blur, bloom. depth of field and dynamic lights.. i want a clear looking game
i get dizzy from all this stuff..

there is no advantage to this if everybody can do it.
also if someone is a good player, do you think that having no config will make him play worse?

if you want there to be no console, so that you may have an advantage over people who prefer to tweak their settings, you will have a bad awakening.

not everybody is the same, let the people tweak their game to their liking.. whats up with all this talk about "it should be the same setting for everybody" this is a backwards mentality..

thats like wanting every car that is made in this year to have no airbags, no electric windows, why? there is no reason not to have every imaginable setting to be tweaked in 2017

It is an advantage and a non-game related skill, since experienced players know about those settings and noobs do not.

It's 2017. High time to get rid of the annoyances from the past that players had to know about and do. QL already didn't allow to replace files (like in Q2) and locked visibility settings (transparencies from Q3). Time to take the next step, which is to not have an advantage due to configuring better.

yes, but obviously the noobs that do not know about these things will not be matched against the good players..

also if a noob is interessted in the game, he will do his research and figure stuff out, im sure there will be lots of youtube-tutorials for new players.

the last part makes no sense, can you imagine keyboard companies being like "you know we can make a keyboard that will register 10 button presses at the same time, but we will not implement this feature because it would be an advantage to people who use crap"

Maybe the game should enable players to program in their own wallhack if they have the knowledge of how to do so.

Then the nerds (different category from pros btw) will have an advantage over everyone else, but they deserve it, right---because they did their research.

hahaha qc devs already put a wallhack into qc (visor vision)

btw there is a clear line between customizing your game within the options the game gives you and a 3rd party program aka cheats

It wouldn't be a third party program if QC came with a built-in compiler. :P

It would just be reward for nerds.

Such a weak argument.





Know your game. That simple.

Yes. Maybe Tiered Servers will come back to help ease some newer players into the game?

yes there will be ranked matchmaking, where it searches for players of your skill and matches the teams evenly.

Quake has never had any problems with a console, it is completely accessible and does not decide games. If I play on FOV 110 better than FOV 90 , well, thats an advantage, I should be locked to 90 like everyone else... but nobody would complain about that. So why is the next step... hiding weapon models and changing picmip settings seem to be "crossing a line" from the posts here. This is something that we have always had, you even had this in DOOM, and there was no hysteria over it, so why is this argument made?

It is a complete non-issue, there is no line being crossed by having these options since we still have them in modern Id games.

There isn't an issue for anyone outside of a handful of people that try to make it one. Go back and look at rapha's configs over the years for example. I don't know how much he's changed it, but he does/did use 3d items, drawweapon 1, and picmip 3 (I think) among other "newb" settings. According to these guys, he should've been at a huge disadvantage compared to anyone that was using "pro" settings. Crazy how he managed to win all those major events.

3d items have a taller model, so that items can be seen from spots where 2d items wouldn't be. Take the RA in dm6 and ztn for example. It's actually an advantage to leave it like that.

Draw weapon 1 is quite useful for hitting rockets. Gives you a better sense of perspective and also rockets don't block your vision.

Same with picmip 4. Picmip 0 gives less visibility, while picmip 16 ruins the sense of perspective a bit, so everybody good in q3/ql used picmip between 4 and 7.

I shouldn't know about these things, neither should people in QC.

Lmao I was going to say this. Everything has a reason

From what I remember, a simpleitem size of around 17-19 will negate the benefit of 3d items like you listed. And that's not far from default size.

All the other things are preferences. For any setting you say this, or I say that, there are plenty of people that play with the opposite setting. You can't say setting x is objectively better than setting y, because it all comes down to personal preferences.

That command was introduced after QL had been dropped from major tournaments. So it was an advantage when it mattered.

Better visibility is not a personal preference. Not a single top player ever used picmip 0. Not one.

rapha used picmip 0 or 1 at last qcon iirc

Nope. 3.
http://demos.igmdb.org/QuakeCon%202016/QuakeL...ha/baseq3/

Not a single top player? I'm not talking about just "pros" either. I find that very hard to believe. Doesn't evil use like 10? Aren't the textures flat by 10 (maybe 8 even, it's been years since I've touched ql)? And some people would say he's got some of the best rockets there are. I believe he also used/uses drawweapon 0.

I mean, we can probably do this all day, finding examples of the opposite of what you say.

Edit: If there's 1 or 2 settings that definitely give an advantage, I'd say they're forceenemymodel and brightskins. Outside of that, I don't know. I mean even at picimip 0, it's not like there's a lot going on in the q3/ql engine. If you have issues seeing a keel/brightskin with picmip 0, it sounds like more of the chair to computer interface than anything else.

Nope. 5.
http://demos.igmdb.org/QuakeCon%202016/QuakeL...il/baseq3/

its not an issue, you think players eill suddenly not know how to play because of no picmip?

its just about comfort.. a competitive game that takes itself serious should always enable a clear playingfield.

you dont see the NBA handing out high heels to the players because its too easy in sneakers.

so the devs should not put all this blur, bloom and lighning, blood splatters pn screen.. in the game to begin with.
its just getting in the way, and nobody benefits from it, we all lose.

No, it comes down to PREFERENCE, comfort. He PREFERS his config that way.

Yeah the noobs will not get crushed and go back to Overwatch if you annoy the skilled players by limiting their configuration options.

we need to be able to change the position of the guns x,y,z
also alot of other things, like crosshairs for each gun and so on.

Oh no you don't, just play the game. Get into coding or something if you enjoy tweaking and customizing so much, it's a nice hobby if you do something else for a living.

complete non-argument, why do you want less in your product?

just play the game xD you think too much of it do something else.. haha -you

It's not an argument, arguments that I agree with were given earlier by others. That was just ridiculing people claiming that being able to "change the position of the guns x.y.z" is an absolute must.

why should asking for more options be ridiculed?

Why should there be a line where the consumer says that there are too many options?

what do you mean "no" that is not a valid reason.
changing the position of the gun, will not make me play better
but it will let me enjoy the game more because the gun is not taking away half of my screen at lower fov´s

and it makes me feel more confident for whatever reason.
if you go to a pizza place, dont you want to choose which pizza you wanna eat? or do you want there to be one pizza for everybody, because fuck everybody else ?

quake is the only game that has had this custumization, thats why i love it so much, all these new games come with terrible mouse accel and they add bloom and depth of field to everything like its going to make the game look better, no its not looking better they just hide their shitty textures with this.

when i flick my mouse around i dont want any motion-blur on my screen, especially not in a game like this.

you gotta ask yourself what you want! do you want a game that will be half dead in 1 year? or do you want a game that will keep a playerbase over the next decade?

this is the question you gotta ask

Bookmarks: Lorfa's Cvar guide



Haha, hypocrite.

I had to tune my settings like everyone else not to put myself in a big disadvantage. I'll be more than glad to give it away and just play the game instead.

You gotta be kidding me,, "we need to change guns x,y,z" NO YOU DONT! No one need to change those things except the gamedeveloper, And so many other things you really dont need that has been done via config in the history, you just making yourself dependent on things you dont needed in the first place. Like an addiction of any kind. A game shouldnt need much of customizing to be ready for anyone to go with, and i feel they have succeded with this. Start playing the game and stop acting like you were a gamedeveloper!

Are you a game developer? Because surely you act in that way, proposing what a game should contain and what not.

console in 2017 !??????????????????! LOL:

-4k
-120fps
-240Hz
-ultra-settings
-mods
-free-multiplayer
-upgrades
-oculus rift
-xvideos

what is your argument against a console?
btw mods wont be possible for qc

in a nutshell:
i suck and i feel that if you cant make a config to your liking
i will have a better chance beating you.

It is ironic that someone trying to defend his non-skill related advantage over other players is telling people they suck.

The fact that you bring up winning and losing shows you know that configuration is a source of advantage.

relax, i am just trying to get my point across.. dont take it to heart.

look, i am not saying we should be able to do black magic
but just to be able to customize the game to our liking!

for example: without a console you can forget about chat binds, fov and accel settings for each weapon, crosshairs, and all kinds of graphical tweaks.

be honest with yourself, imagine playing quake champions on a sunday evening for a couple of hours straight.. the mix of the bloom, blur and dynamic lightning will be heavy on your eyes!

in the end this stuff gives you really no advantage, and its only a matter of how you feel the most comfortable playing the game..

you know how after qcon there is always a thread "QCON 2017 configs" "ay you got cypher config?"

its a aspect of quake that was always nice to download some configs and look at how other players play.. same with demos, i hope you will be able to record demos in QC!

i really dont understand why you are so close minded, explain to me how having a console would be bad for the game.

It's more a question of what settings should be available than whether there should be a console or config file, which I expressed here:

http://esreality.com/post/2862289/n-a/#pid2862289

I think any possible advantage you can get should be possible to get through UI menu options. There is nothing preventing chat binds or per-gun settings being done nicely in the menus. Unfortunately, we'll probably be using voice chat anyway and be forced to listed to everyone's retarded voices. :D

Then there is the question of how much advantage it should be possible to get from those settings.

Personally, I think there should be the idea of a stock game that will please competitive and casual players, and then if casual types want it more beautiful, they can enable some sort of "ultra" mode that turns on bloom, blur, shadows, etc. So in other words, those things are just considered icing on the cake.

I don't think there should be much a competitive player can do to gain further advantage over the stock game. Any settings should be about comfort, not advantage. But the two won't be mutually exclusive, so there will need to be a debate on a per-setting basis. :D

I think the main things to avoid are a de-facto standard ugly mode that people use only for the advantage over other players, players becoming obsessed with configuration, and obscuring the means of obtaining any advantages.

You are really tearing people a new one(or trying hard to) recently!

GRRRRinnnd those GEEarSS...

Haha mate, that really isn't my intention. :D

If they put in a QL-style console and config system, it won't negatively affect me very much because I'm quite familiar with it.
If they remove it completely, I'm guessing it won't bother me too much either so long as the stock game isn't retarded, and I can get a decent frame rate.

Most of these sorts of discussions revolve around what needs to be done to get a decent player base, and we inevitably have to make concessions for that. For instance, skins are unnecessary to me, but they will bring players. If I follow the old quake doctrine, I should be able to turn them off because they are oh so offensive to my eye.

I reckon breaking down barriers to accessing advantageous configuration options by putting them in the UI does help. The fact that many people over the years have asked me for assistance with their configs shows it ain't simple enough---even though a lot of people here have got so used to it that it seems simple to them.

I think a competitive game should only be rewarding people for gameplay skills, i.e. those skills you actually use in the course of a match. You can talk all you want about config not helping you beat rapha, but a good config may make that 5% difference, and when you're playing against someone on the same level, that makes a big difference.

Of course, people know this, and that's why they tweak configs as much as they do. They are disingenuous when they claim it is just because some default setting makes them nauseated.

K your responses are well thoguht out, not a troll :)

its an advantage if your enemy didnt tweak his configuration at all (e.g. enemy plays with default mouse sensitivity...) ;)

but cmon its not this difficult to get a decent cfg for graphic settings or other stuff and then to bind your keys to your like. If the enemy is too stupid to do such a thing then he actually lacks a basic computer skill and shouldnt play pc games. So it is actually skill related... we just dont consider it a skill since its ridiculous easy.

Next time someone will cry about ingame options advantage because its soooo hard for him to set them ingame...

So I don't repeat myself, I'll just refer you to the comment I just made: #33. :D

I definitely do not consider mouse sensitivity a setting that gives near universal advantage (pros seem to be using everything from 10-70cm), and even if it did, no one would be offended by whatever its presence forces people to do. It's also one of the most obvious settings to put on the front-page settings screen. :D

I certainly don't consider mucking about with the console or using text editors on files to be a quake skill. Of course, you need non-quake skill to play the game (like turning on your PC), but those should be minimized. Let's keep everything in the game.

How is there an advantage if everyone can change their configuration? You could also argue the guy that feels very comfortable with the default settings has an advantage over the guy the has problems with default settings if there is no configuration.

It would be like car racing where the driver cant change the car settings to his liking/driving style. If you dont want any configuration go play on a console.

First of all, everyone has to know the advantage exists to get it.

Then, if everyone knows about it, it has to be straightforward in terms of time, effort, and knowledge to actually utilize it.

Then, if that is the case, depending on what settings are available, there is the possibility people will be forced to run the game under an ugly or unappealing configuration just because of the near universal advantages doing so brings. The end result is that the vast majority for whom such a game is unappealing will leave to play another game.

If you read my other posts in this thread, you'd know I have no problem with comfort settings. But some settings are clearly only used for advantage, and there is overlap between comfort and advantage. Thus the need to debate this on a per-setting basis.

It would be like a tennis player saying reducing the dimensions of his side of the court was for his "comfort" and then claiming it is fair because his opponent can do the same. Yes, his opponent can, and when he does, the game is ruined, and people stop playing it.

so true ^ (abso)

Wouldn't you prefer to know the reason you are losing LG fights has nothing to do with your setup, so you can resign yourself to the fact you need to work on yourself instead?

You can then focus on what energy drinks to consume rather than adjusting settings ten thousand times. :P

Hypothetical, a single class is given Zoom FOV ability! Call it the sniper or some shit.

For noobs it's like a secret hack you understand that? And that's been discussed to death on the old official QL forums.

It helps if the settings are available via in game GUI too.

yes we don't need console commands as long as everything is in the ingame menu!

:)

I do.


Fuck stupid menus. Console 5000x faster and more comfortable.

This.

xvideos, especially

a console will be to complicated for the new gamers... so they willmost likely skip it

I would like to see console, especially since for example, I have some weapons drawgun 0 some 1
Also depending on the weapon sensitivity is diffrenet for each "group".

But we will see.

That could be an option in the menu? Per weapon settings. Extensive menus ftw

well quake live has that built in per weapon settings. or it had whilst it was a web browser version not the desktop app

The way QL did it was terrible. You were still typing commands in for each weapon. They didn't even autocomplete. It would be better to have a whole settings screen for each weapon with all the most common per-gun settings people like to use, and a default weapon configuration that is used if a particular gun doesn't have specific settings overriding that.

Better than nothing still.

The only really good thing that system added was the fact your gun settings would change when the weapon changed for a reason other than your pressing a gun key (for instance when running out of ammo).

idc.
aslong as i can rocketjump, strafejump and rape some ppl.

+ hoping to find a decent team for sacrifice ;)

It is a hybrid engine (some parts are id tech, some parts are saber tech). So yes, we might see a console. Probably not until release though.

I would be fine with a game which does not have one and simply provides sensible options via the menu.

thats not good, developers are LAZY and its so much easier to add a console command then add a new button to a menu which is a chore

imagine quake having a button for every command, all 1500 commands

ql devs were lazy. How long did it take them to put a proper ingame menu? 1 or 2 years?

nevertheless the proper ingame menu couldnt fully replace a console

lazy as in, do you expect devs to make a menu that is not only sensible but also has 1500 options?

people are lazy, the menu is boring...

funny no one mentioned spam binds... I need at least 20 different spam/insult binds to have a psychological advantage over my opponent. I never saw an ingame option like that :(

same as a bind to change my name instantly so i wont get easy banned from a server...

funny how people still think it is a quake game while all the evidence is to the contrary.

clearly has 'quake' in its name

same for Enemy Territory: Quake Wars and its still not quake. It is just played in the quake universe but its not a quake series game.

The new UnrealTournament will be more quakish than QC!

edit: i wondered how an esr user can have such a view without being ironic or troll attemp... than I saw your registration date 2015... explains everything
I still hope it was a poor troll attemp

Noone gives a fuck about quake. Dead game. Go on.

no you are

Providing it lets me run a 4:3 res @120hz i don't give a fuck, will stop me pissing about with cfg when I could be fragging...

I like your attitude. :D

Would love to see a less in depth console of q3, and ID having an option to click on the main menu linking you to the console commands and a brief description of what they do.

Yeah, you'd at least expect them to give a definition of their own commands instead of expecting the community to figure it out and publish that info.

I don't really care if console or menu, because I don't expect the game to be good or have the same amount of options as older Quake titles anyway, but I hope for a good documentation/explanation of each option.

rip forcemodel

was thinking that same thing

Well, aren't they all gonna have different hitbox sizes as well as different everything else?

Forcemodel wouldn't be very useful in such a game.

at least enemymodel bright. :(

I think forcing enemy color/skin will be in

Different hitbox sizes wtf?

Not confirmed, but I would not be surprised.

It was discussed a little here: http://www.esreality.com/post/2862084/hitbox-size/

Hitboxes that don't fit the model would be quite weird.

Ever played q3 without force enemy? :P

It's the current year, or something....

A little bit yes. I don't think people would sit well with that in 2017 though.

easy fix is make all models relatively the same size

Not really compatible with their slow tank speedy scout type thing.

Compare Nyx and Clutch.

Yeah, just the other day, with basically default cfg (except binds).


I have to say, the visibility and the hitboxes are MUCH better than in QC and had more fun with it.

As long as it is not restricted to some low, medium, high... ultra maximum or some other shit along the same lines, I'm fine.

I hope they don't try to go the super "level playing field" route where people having configs that help them in game is seen as an "unfair advantage"... I would rather see the most configuration possible.

But deep down we all know that's not going to happen. :(

My guess is we get a console, but with limited support on ranked / regular modes. I also guess we get nice graphics options, but few HUD / gun position / etc configuration...

My suggestion that recommended sys reqs will be like CPU i7 3770/fx8350, 8Gb ram and gtx1060/970 or amd 480/470/390/390x for 60-100fps

Console version will be as always:
dinamical-nerfed resolution from 900p to 720p with stuters
nerfed shadow quality
nerfed reflection quality
lower textures resolution
lower texture filtering
lower antialiasing (blurry fxaa)
lower draw-distance
nerfed particle-system
30-60fps (60 when looking into wall,30 when shooting in it)

QC is going to be a PC game only.

Didn't God invent soccer for people without money?

Sure remove the console but Quake MUST have certain options available in the menu. Doesn't have to be much as lets face it having an elaborate cfg does not make anyone better but a few basics like a zoom toggle option i would welcome. We don't really need picmips if the player models aren't just brown pooey garbage which they are currently and for christ sake let me remove the cod style hit indicators...