Rofflecakes, I know I know. But there's other stuff I could show you from here if I were able to get images, especially side by sides of the Q4 guy with box and units compared to Q1/QW/Q2Q3...

Besides, almost mute point once you see the side effects of trying to change them this late in the game.

Understandable, but it still sucks :(

I'd like to see those pictures to be honest just out of interest :)

same

me 3

Yeah, take a look at my "programmer's tip" in the other thread on two hitboxes (terrain/weapons) though ;(

You are definitely right that people are overdoing this and studying Q4 with a (subjective) microscope, but just adjust the weapon hitboxes by 1% and you can say "we tweaked the hitboxes".

Then, people can go on about the next change (as you see they already are).. "the movement".. "the feel".. :P, and ultimately they'll find out that what they're wanting, is that instant interfacing with the game they have after years of playing Q3.

And, that to get the same love and "feel" for Q4, they need to play it for several years too.

No it isn't the same. I started Q3A in 2004 (No previous quake/ut experience worth noting) and felt instantly at home and enjoyed the feeling a lot with no effort.

I never played enough Q3 to get totally used to just Q3 stuff and I can jump into other games and the feel 'feels' better (e.g. Q2/QW)

Exactly :P the first FPS is easy to like, because it is new; you are learning new stuff every day, learning the community, etc.

An upgrade, you will keep comparing to the last. And something that calls itself "Quake 4" is impossible to not compare to "Quake 3".. :P

So with Quake 4, you dont have to learn much else, you are just sitting there with your full-on FPS focus, swallowing every piece of input, comparing the Q4 experience to a 3-6 years old experience - to 3-6 years of motor skills and reflexes, 3-6 years of intuition, with something that is four months old. :P
That comparison can _never_ be fair.

Again, I was in UT -> UT2k3, and almost every single thing people write about Q3->Q4, looks familiar to me. They are even writing about "the feel" now, which really cracks me up since "the feel" was a big deal in the 2k3 discussion.

So, basically - yeah, I'm right. ;p

I'm not comparing it to Q3.

And "3-6 year experience" What?

I started 2004 and I played some TDM/CTF seasons (Not much outside of that). So firstly thats 2.

Secondly when I go into other new games, I'm not like "WOW THIS ISN'T LIKE Q3, BUT THIS IS". I look at what I like and what I don't with no thoughts of Q3. For example UT2k4 I didn't enjoy the movement or secondary fire because I don't find it fun.

I guess the keyword here is *upgrade*.

A slight increase to movement speed and a slight increase to rocket speed (very slight) will render this point moot because people will have a greater ability to dodge. Q4 is nice in that the momentum change from one direction to another is nearly instant, there's not much speed buildup.

Hmm, wouldnt that actually be the same if you increase both :)

Not quite, the rest of the weapons behave the same.
If stuff goes faster, you have to react faster, and if you can move faster, the reaction has more effect.

It would make a different feel.

Dude, same thing happens in q3. Make your model sarge and start shooting like this and you will notice the same thing.

I don't know if hitboxes are THE problem and if SyncError has already said it's a huge mess to fix, then we should put this problem on the back burner for the immediate future and work on more important bugs for 1.1.

this demo should demonstrate what !?

The Hitboxes are fine !

The reasen why u can shoot next to the head and between the legs AND hit, is ....
guess what ?! .... IT'S A HIT_BOX_ !

If someone was to shoot you with a real gun beside your head, would you get hit? No, itd go by your head.


Thats what its supposed to be like, but its not.

http://www.counter-strike.net/

go there and have fun :D

They wouldnt make it people with heads and arms and legs if you were supposed to hit BESIDE those people, who cares if Quake isn't a realistic game... its basic logic to say that if you shoot beside someone it shouldnt hit them.

not everybody lives in sweden and has a 100mbit connection ...

and

lol, i accidently [+]ed you :]

Then there's the entire argument about how lag, delays, and animations all can come together to make a very random environment when it comes to pixel hit detection. Yes, you only hit what you hit, but if you fire a bullet and the player twitches drastically changing the player animation suddenly they are dodging bullets Matrix style.

In a perfect world with better hardware and faster connections and smoother fps with more animations pixel hit detection rocks. Until then, I'd prefer to see Quake stay a "3d Chess" where its more about attacking your opponents piece than what animation they were in at the moment to dodge that shot.

<3

For someone who works in the industry you seem to have a surprisingly good idea what you are talking about. =)

same here

you work in the industry and you seem to have a surprisingly good idea what you are talking about?

LOL ;)

I think the whole point is that the hitboxes should be as equal to the actual model as possible, not outside it, or inside it for that matter.

The hit boxes are the same as all the quakes, and I've been saying that its not the hit boxes in q4, its the net code and game engine.

oh so the model is smaller than the hitbox, never seen that before

why not make another model that is closer size to the hit box? ;p

well.. hello einstein ;]

Wow, and I was feeling lonely on this =/
This game needs more and better models.

Yeah that's what I thought when I saw the "very hard to fix update." Make bigger models and bigger maps? I'd love to see more Quak'ish models anyway and alot of people want bigger maps so.. Dunno if it sounds stupid but it sounds like an alternative to me...

Tbh the hitboxes don't look "that" bad when considering a model and box and the models are "thinner", i.e imagine keel or tankjr etc in that box. It does still definitely feel as though something is going on that isn't right though. The demo actually makes them look smaller to me than it seems in game, would like to see a comparison with a movement image maybe or something. Somethings definitely not right anyways.

yeah definitely

for models, look here :
http://www.dimwalker.nm.ru/img/mdl_wip/keel.jpg
http://www.dimwalker.nm.ru/img/mdl_wip/tankjr.jpg
unfortunatly it is often down or very slow :(

holy camel hump

my hump my hump my hump!

rar lady bumps

for the love of God, please not that song. oh please please PLEASE

There's nothing unacceptable about lady bumps!

are they for q4?

mynx! plz!
or any other non-fat chick :)

jesus can those be downloaded for Q4??

I like tankjrs ass =x

Unable to connect.

Just make a god damn tank jr model that fills the hitboxes out and everyone will stfu.

These are not my models, currently they are WIP and have no animations and texures.

tankjr is much bigger then hitbox, keel is one of the q3 models that where near the actual hitbox.

No animations or tectures kek-.- Not much point then in other words :|

I said _make_ not, not "use this one" ;). Never mind.

Keel is too tall for the hitbox :)

I thought the hitboxes in Q3 and Q4 are equal size in terms of units so even if there's a need to resize the model it should fit in?

No, I mean, I think that in q3 keel is slightly taller than the hitbox, if you shoot the head it goes through it. I could be wrong, but i think so.

Yea the top of his head was out of the hitbox afair but nothing that can't be fixed while converting him to Q4. Just make him shorter :)
Or better yet make a new model that fits the hitbox perfectly.

Someone just needs to make a model that is just a large box, problem solved.