cpma? v1.32? wcg06?

osp and wcg02 dont exist for the site

best to just purposely list this demo from the wrong event then...

indeed

yeah remember this demo. nice shaftwork by cooller!

didn't zero4 mess his comeback up by clipping a wall during chase?

zero4 is nothink on lan!



sry couldnt resist :(

hmm mixed feelings.. imo he wasn't exactly unlucky during his comeback as cooller dropped in the void in a really critical situation, could have broken Z4's comeback once for all or at least made it a few frags less for him. then again he was shooting so many sweet rockets and really put lots of pressure on Cooller and could rape him with rockets a few times. brilliant game, you could already tell what kind of player Cooller would become the following year :)

what a boring map, thank god for pdm6, ztn and pt4.

Pt4 was worse.

[-] t2 is one of the best duel maps ever. it gets a bit lucky at times but which one doesn't?

t2 is one of the best duel maps ever

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yeah. especially when you stand and wait by a tele for like a minute before your oponnent comes out of it, then hit him with a sg or a splash rocket, and then you return through the tele on the other side, take health, armor, and wait for the same thing.

SHIT map.

You have to be a really shit player not to notice the pattern.

totally agree, q3dm13 is way better

so this game took place before cooller started professional bodybuilding?

whole situation in cooller group was funny ;) (match vs ni3, american petition)

"The infamous WCG 02 group stage match. "
Who the hell for, was it infamouse? Americans??

wtf did you just say?

What the fuck is wtf?!

+ for that reply

I'll say this only one time... this was the beginning of Z4's downfall.

The younger zero4 played the highest level of Q3 perhaps EVER (roughly a year or so before this tourny?).

This guy DOMINATED the best, he didn't just beat them. The skill margin was just crazy. Close games? Ha!

As he got older, he started caring less, he stopped practicing and he just figured he'd get a few bucks at the BIG SHOWS it seems to me. The desire just wasn't there.

He got worse as time went on, the players overall didn't really get that much better.

I allowed myself to speculate above, because Z4 pre "this tourny" was the better player BY FAR. What happened? It was a slow decline.

I see, not that better players came in, it was z4 who decided to let them dominate q3...

Well... it's hard to say.

Obviously the players got better but honestly, I think in his prime his level was as high as anybody's (relatively).

Edit: I also didn't mean he "let" anybody win. He got owned hard, many times, as does any great player.

No doubt about that, z4 was a great player and my favourite for a long time.

Can you provide some demos of that uber shape? I'm not sure but I don't think he got that much worse in the later years, seeing as he could still challenge the quake duel monster of the past years (Cooller) at every event. I guess I missed some of the fatality and ZeRo4 highlights as I watched most of it months or even years later (all the pre-2002 stuff) but I can't think of anyone as evil as Cooller. So it's not that bad to be more or less equal to that guy :)

I'm sure I could if I went demo hunting on Cyberfight, but I'm not in a position to argue my position right now.

and please don't see this as my suggesting HE OWNZ EVERYBODY EVER.

Cooller was the greatest Q3 player IMO, but if we take into account the skill gap at the time of their powers Z4 could dominate like no other I seem to remember.

I also seem to remember a slowing down of his play, and of reading how he doesn't even play the game until days before an event to get back into shape quick.

He used to be sooo spazzy if you saw demo's from his POV. Just crazyness... is this even a good thing?

All speculation, ZERO facts and just my opinion.

Well I was't doubting your position, actually I'm a huge fan of ZeRo4 :) it's just that I rarely remember games from back then, or at least I didn't watch them the way I would watch games nowadays. I hardly recall games from the earlier years, except maybe that online demo vs frost on dm6 :) so I'm just curious what games you might be able to recommend.

Good question...

If only you would have asked me a few years ago.

I would be happy to oblidge, but I can't even remember any particular one. If I have some time this weekend (not during a Quakecon heh) I'll do a quick look on Cyberfight.

Now see - that Frost game - I remember that. I *THINK* WCG 2001 was prime time Z4. I haven't looked to make sure, but I THINK that was kicking ass time for Z4.

Without really knowing maybe these at a 2001 WCG will help? Towards bottom.

Link thing didn't work for me

http://www.cached.net/?go=%2A/demo/archive///...atch/Zero4

The destruction of random is one of the very best demos I've ever seen...the ownage was legendary.

http://www.cached.net/?go=%2A/demo/single/165...ch/Caravan

Heh ye was nice :) although I don't really know about random, was he one of the bigger guys? Still good seeing as it's online on not so great pings and from somewhen in 2002?

ps: sarge as models makes it so much more enjoyable to watch demos :D

random was an up and coming q3 player around 2001-2002 and he had a nice run during about 6 months until z4 destroyed his feelings on that particular night. What makes this demo even more interesting is the fact that random actually challenged z4 to a duel and was very cocky telling everyone that he could handle z4 who was the best player during that time. The results speak for themselves...random completely disappeared after this match never to be seen again...ouch.

owww the story behind it explains alot then :D

<3

You have to be kidding. Zero4 was playing amazing quake in 2003 (eswc final, cxg final, quakecon winner) and in 2004 (eswc team winner, quakecon finalist).
What you obviously don't understand is that the level of quake3 from 2001 was raised to a completely new level by the upcoming young russians and also some really strong swedes. In the same way that Zero4 went way past the skill that made Fatality win in early Q3, new players made the skill go even further, which was an adaption that Zero4 managed successfully.

The guy was almost always in the finals, you can't blame him for losing against the one player who won everything he attended once he had established himself (except quakecon 04, where hubaero was magically drawn against both zero4 and czm).

You could also argue that CZM took q3 duelling to a whole new level in 2005. The way he made it in a rampage to the eswc final was so incredibly impressive. But then - owned by Cooller!

No I'm not kidding. I never said he wasn't playing amazing Quake, just less amazing than it used to be in my opinion.

Look I'm not some Biblical demo God. I'm just calling it as I remember it. We need not take this too seriously. I was speculating and adding my opinion, the chances that my memory is not serving me is VERY HIGH.

I'm not going to defend myself :)

BTW Cooller ownz!

FKIN A!

How was czm owned by cooller at eswc 2005? Cooller was raped the first map, barely won the second, and took the third map by a decent margin.

No other player has dominated top level tournaments as long or as totally as zero4 did.

fatal1ty ?

in different games even ? [=

nuff said.

he took cpl, wcg and qcon in a single year unbeaten. if you compare that to cooller's "most dominating player", cooller lost to both lexer and socrates on eswc 2003, and got pwned by toxic in 2005. and those are his 2 majors.

i have to agree that i was most impressed with zero4 when its about players who dominated q3 1on1 for a period of time

Not to take anything away from Zero4, who to me is the second greatest q3 dueller ever, but he also got dominated by another player who he couldn't beat, for a long period of time.

Who did he get dominated by?

I'll give you two hints, one hard and one easy, let's see how you skill up, shall we? :)

1. The players name sounds somewhat like the producer of a toxine that, through ADP-Ribosylation, constantly activates a G-Proteine.

2. The players name is very similar to an english word for "cold", "chilled".

Which games did z4 get dominated though, the few that I've seen were down to the wire.

Yeah, they were certainly not all down to the wire.
WCG02 - domination, then Cooller decides to stop playing (which is a big mistake)
ESWC - Zero4 takes his map, but gets absolutely dominated in the deciding Pro-Dm6.
CXG - Zero4 takes his map, but gets absolutely dominated in the deciding Pro-T7.
ESWC 2004 - A really close Pro-Dm6.

Quakecon 04 - Zero4 owns on Hubaero.

The point is that the young russian defeated the already established Q3 legend every time they met over a timespan of 2 years, which madeit seem like it was impossible for Zero4 to beat him.
Quakecon 04 proves nothing regarding that, as Cooller absolutely sucked on that map back then and would have lost it against second tier americans as well, like JIbo who lost 50-x against an american tdm player.

"This guy DOMINATED the best, he didn't just beat them. The skill margin was just crazy. Close games? Ha!

As he got older, he started caring less, he stopped practicing and he just figured he'd get a few bucks at the BIG SHOWS it seems to me. The desire just wasn't there.

He got worse as time went on, the players overall didn't really get that much better.

I allowed myself to speculate above, because Z4 pre "this tourny" was the better player BY FAR. What happened? It was a slow decline."

Congrats on inventing an entirely ficticious alternative history where ZeRo4 is the lord jesus and you're his loyal wife and promotional manager. As for ZeRo4's slow decline, I guess failing to advance beyond the group stage and then losing to your infamous rival 14 to -1 and proceeding to bomb out of the tournament in 24th place marks a "slow decline"...especially bearing in mind he won both tournaments a year earlier.

ZeRo4 was the undisputed best in the world for 2 tournaments essentially: quakecon 2001 he was in great form beating the likes of czm/fat and at wcg 2001 he outplayed lexer when it counted as well as numerous other famous names. At Babbages he wasn't even a favourite going into it and the last event he won, Quakecon 2003, the level of skill between himself and czm was practically non-existant.

Great achievements are a wonderful thing to observe but that doesn't mean you should start rewriting history to make things sound far better than they ever were just because you've watched too many ZeRo4 demos.

P.S Where was this period of time when this was true out of interest?:

"This guy DOMINATED the best, he didn't just beat them. The skill margin was just crazy. Close games? Ha!"

At Babbages he didn't look too dominating vs lakerman on t4, at WCG 2001 he played more of a lame running game than fatal1ty ever managed in Q3 and last but not least at QCON 2001 he beat fat on ztn by essentially playing like if22's dream date. I guess the period of domination was when you lanned with friends and watched z4 demos in your gimp suit.

The end.

"at WCG 2001 he played more of a lame running game than fatal1ty ever managed in Q3"

I am referring to the Lexer tourney2 upper bracket game with this comment.

Yeah, cause every time Fatal1ty plays a lame running game on T2 we all know what happens :D:D:D

It's ok that you don't understand English, that's no excuse for playing garbage hitscan games though.

UT is much more complex than that.

Too bad we'll never see gitzzz compete in one of the competitve quake scenes so we could find out :P

I don't think Gitz playing anything would prove a point about UT.

It's difficult not to be suspicious of a series where failed CS player lotus can hang with the best and ex-pretty good CS player burningdeath can switch and beat the supposed best of all time in the series in the space of what 6 months? A lot of crazy crap can happen in Q3 but I've yet to see anything on that kind of scale, that implies to me at least that hitscan aim, a little confidence and basic strategy can take you a long way in a UT game - can you say the same about competing at the very highest level of the quake series games?

add winz to the list, an ok quaker, who switched to UT and in one year won ESWC 2005.

I didn't know about the CS guys you mentioned. That is a disgrace :(

UT2004 is totally hit-scan dominated, you're right. But the original isn't. In 2K4 they changed everything that was good about ut and left everything that was bad, a real fuck-up game play wise.

I didn't say series. You did.

Yeah you don't say a lot, but hey who's complaining about that haha.

haha!

He was clearly deeply influenced by wombat's +back performance at Ground Zero.

Actually my first reply to this post didn't really have a whole lot of merit since I intially thought you were talking about fat's play on t2 in the qtest tournaments where ironically he went pretty all out.

I'm waiting for your commment about qcon 2003 z4 vs fox (the pt4 match)
omg you are zzzzo wise!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yeah, must be tough beating fox in duel tournaments...it's only been accomplished by at least one person in every major duel tournament he ever competed in.

Get a clue, I'll export you one if you can rustle up the change by mortgaging your house.

at least 1 person in every major competition... ON PT4 ?
I don't think so!
cooller have only much training skills (and this is not just a small diference) but he have no...class!
"Get a clue, I'll export you one if you can rustle up the change by mortgaging your house."-I think somebody just have to give me his house because his pay limit is off (no joke) so I'll assume the risk

"at least 1 person in every major competition... ON PT4 ?
I don't think so!"

You're talking to yourself, which explains why there's no brain activity recognizable in your posts at this point.

I didn't say someone beats him on pt4 at every major competition. Spend more time studying the English language and less bumming fox.

good lord, the esr forums are so competitive compared to what i'm used to. I could get used to this, I like flame wars.

Yep, welcome to European Quake culture: we're just as big assholes but we're as eloquent as possible about the intricacies of our stupidity ;P

I did not think about brain stuck stuff but if you want so... well here it is:
as you said smth like "z4 played a pretty lame match even if he won" my comment was this:
I'm waiting for your commment about qcon 2003 z4 vs fox (the pt4 match) meaning "I've seen some z4 unbelievable matches and I've seen your point not just from your last post but from the entire context of your posts on this thread"
and that was all
and your sarcastic comment was:
"Yeah, must be tough beating fox in duel tournaments...it's only been accomplished by at least one person in every major duel tournament he ever competed in."
I think I was specific with the PT4 mention so your reply is outside the subject if I'm not wrong. No many can be proud that they have beaten fox on pt4 (not to mention fox was in a very good form that day, see fox vs demon on pt4 match, same day)

"Spend more time studying the English language and less bumming fox." this was not about fox but about z4 so... brainMaster...what can I say else than "and in fact at wcg 2001 z4 running away from his opponent on that boring pt2 match made a pretty interesting strategical game the players play to win not to make you the spectator happy" ?

I think you've actually made an honest mistake in misreading what I said, my point was that ZeRo4 is and was a great player but the original poster was over-exaggerating matters by claiming that he "dominated" every opponent he faced. I pointed out that he ran away from fat at qcon 2001 in the final and as a result it was a very close game and also at wcg 2001 he had a similar game with lexer.

All I said for qcon 2003 was "and the last event he won, Quakecon 2003, the level of skill between himself and czm was practically non-existant." By that I mean that it was very close between him and czm, as you might have noticed in the finals demos, and that either one of them could have won that event so once again he didn't "dominate" his opponents. Naturally he dominated SOME opponents in some specific games, that is the nature of Quake 3. Regardless there were ALWAYS people who were at the same level as him no matter what period we discuss.

So what are you actually talking about now? I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt in this post since your last one made me think you might have just misunderstood the way my original post was phrased. All the same I wouldn't go around insulting people if you don't understand what they are saying, I wouldn't presume to insult a French guy in a post composed entirely in French about some intricate detail pertaining to the language of the post :P

Thank you.

If I may be clear about one thing:

I didn't just IMAGINE some of the things I said about practicing etc. I've actually heard this from (un)credible sources (meaning: NOT HIM) at one point or another.

If I say ZERO FACTS - don't waste your time getting angry at me, I just don't care enough to "argue" such a thing.

At any point, we are making FAR TO BIG A DEAL about this.

Can't we all just get along!?

fair enough, from some of your above comments you made it clear you were just speculating, but I only saw the original comment and it smacked of typical US fanboyism so I thought I'd set the record straight :P

The last thing I am is a US fanboy.

Actually I don't have ANY nationalism in my thoughts at all.

I've talked about CZM and Z4 on two occasions in ten years. It happens to be these two demos on top of esreality right now.

Right now I do happen to be somewhat of a Cypher and Avek nutrider, but they're not from America.

""and last but not least at QCON 2001 he beat fat on ztn by essentially playing like if22's dream date. ""

lmao!

I agree...ZeRo4 was the best player quake has ever seen...but he's only human and got bored doing the same shit over and over again and moved on to better things.

He never managed to beat Cooller in a series, and they played lots of series against each other.

2 is alot?

WCG 02, ESWC 03, CXG 03, ESWC 2004. Not sure if I'm forgetting something.

they only played one map at wcg 02 and eswc 04. series = more than one map (i.e. bo3)

You aren't making a point.
Let's just agree on that he got his ass kicked.

Furthermore, I'm assuming you're american, so let's agree on that Cooller not only controlled Zero4 like a girl, but did the same to CZM after he had taken over the american crown at Quakecon 04, which of course in a direct consequence would mean that the US 17 years after the ending of the cold war find themselves in a inferior position to Russia, and therefore must be declared the obvious loser of this longtime conflict. Ok? :)

...

1. I wasn't trying to make a point. Just stating that they only played two series.

2. Go look at tourney results and demos too see the truth.

3. Pull your head out of your ass before you start talking politics. ;)

Is a good thing you're posting anonymously, as you just lost any respect or credibility I may have given your opinion after that post. Oh well. So much for an intelligent discussion/debate :P

Unless he was someone high skilled, in which case you'd likely say jack shit.

hahaha classic :D

zero4 is a very good player, no doubt. but the no1 quake3 player is & stays cooller!

hahahaahah funny all the excuses this lovely makes when cooller loses its some unlucky mishappening.. and when zero4 loses he gets "dominated"

The anti-american is soooo funny....

f ing fan boys are like little girlscouts trying to sell cookies. Ya I'll buy a few for charity but I'll also eat them quickly and throw up later because coconut and peanut butter is f'ing nasty.

:D

btw if you wanna bring up cold war and russia, I'll say 1v1 me and cooller in a fist fight. I'll show you greatest gamer when I snap his neck in 2 and rip his fingers off and shove them up his arse. How will he play quake then?

This thread has Z4 fanboys that would never admit that Z4 lost a map (even tho ther is demos wher he gets beaten), and you have cooller fanyboys that would never admit that cooller would get ownd.

Well you also have the normal "i can beat up somone IRL so i own" retards and the "lets turn stuff that has nothing to do with poletics into a poletics debate" tards.

Now this thread also have the "i cant spell but that wont stop me from posting random crap on a forum" idiots to, and that will be followed by the "learn to spell ffs n00b" posters, that realy have nothing better to do with ther lifes.

the "learn to spell ffs n00b" posters, that realy have nothing better to do with ther lifes.

epic foresight, [+]

Did I miss something here?

why are you asking me?

Because I don't understand what you were getting at the two posts above the one before this.

maybe noone did, i don't know; i cba to explain, sry :P

learn to spell ffs n00b

are you a statistician or what ?

Neither; I'm both!

I'm sure the comment about the Cold War and Russia winning it based on the results of Quake 3 competitions was made--uh--in jest, you lunatic.

z4 is my q3 hero

"zero4 is my hero I wanna touch his boner"
:))
you can see one comment like this in a z4's demo (spec pov)
fag!

imo, the best q3 1v1 player ever is cooller with both z4 and czm tied for second place. this isn't based on match wins, tourney performances or whatever but just by the games i've watched and the impressions these guys have left on me.

1. Cooller
2. CZM
3. Zero4

imo

hmm they both are really good and i can't really choose one over the other. recently, czm seemed to have been in better form but in the past, it was clearly the other way around.

edit : Z4 vs cooller on pro-t4 from CXG was about the best game i have ever seen on that map.

Agreed.

elpajuo, the little ive seen of him playing is just crazy on a good day, but then i dont think he can always play like that, think it was Qlan or something where he didnt play well at all.

im gonna find the demo wich just stunned me, and as a cooller fanboy got me a bit scared ;D

owned!!

too bad he got shafted @ quakecon :----(((( ulm8

damn that was some very well played T2 by cooller.

Some of those rockets were just magic. Also Z4 landed some kickass rox, too bad we could not see it from his pov :)

overall one has to say, T2 drains a lot of skill. You just cant do shit when you're on defense. Its pretty much a guessing game where your opponent goes, everybody knows if your enemy leaves through the left hallway, that he can come from the right if you go trough tele, of course your opponent also knows, so he does sth else etc.

On a map like ztn you can pull so much more tactics, either on offense or defense.

best q3 dueler is fox

Are you expecting a + from ini?

z4 used to spank him hard everytime they played 1v1...

http://www.cached.net/?go=%2A/demo/single/14395////textmatch/fox

http://www.cached.net/?go=%2A/demo/single/15988////textmatch/fox

ok captain clueless

Okay Captain Obvious, fox beat z4 once in a duel but z4 beat him to a pulp countless times.

The end.

can't someone put this on google video plz

Never saw this one before... downloading! :)

zero4 was very good player... he did have his own playstyle... ok

but in 2001 - lexer played vs zero4 tourney2 lexer's weakest map all time, and t4 zero4 best map... i remember lexer's virtuosity games vs b100.kik and pele... on dm6 and vs akiles slinger games on ztn... and he did lose one map on group stage vs janus on t2... lexer did play on t4 without warmap in grandfinal coz he did have porblems with his mouse... i dont wanna to say lexer was better... but what was interesnting hehe - in winners final lexer knocked out t4, zero4 ztn and it was dm6/t2 - monet choosed t2 =)... in grandfinal it was t4/dm6 =)...

but for me fatality was a more interesting player then zero4... i dont meant better, but more interesting in fact... his style of play imho was more creativity then zero4... and i remember how in 2000 on wcg challenge fat won zero4 on dm13/ top 3 was fat laker zero4... i like to see in quake the mindwork of course, but quake is action and some creativity intuition original dont waited things are better for me... and lexer was imho most nonstandart player... some of his frags was beautiful with original thinks...
for example lexer-b100.kik frag on dm6 when he jumping from rail with plazmarail combo or lexerchaoticz frag when he run to rad armor with minimum percent and he know about red armor and that chao was only =100% and will be stand on RA place for a 3-4 seconds...

ok in my opinion these pro q3 players z4, cooller, czm maybe daler, elpajuo all are able to beat each other
the fact that z4 won everything in 2001 and cooller won big tourneys in 2003 is a result of the constant training, luck and maybe the physical status of them at that time I mean if you are not calm enough some day you may loose a contest despite you're the best prepared player for example
ok, z4 won everything in 2001 then he went down... kinda. if what he said that he did not train that much anymore is true than he is one of the most talented player around here
cooller is having sometimes good days other times bad days definitively he's got great potential
elpajuo also won against everybody at cxg 2004 where the players were in great shape (excepting z4, see just how many RJ misses he had on that competition) so he is a big danger... in the proper situation
czm was playing very well last 2 years and the fact that he loosed against cooller in the finals don't mean cooller is better, cooller was better that time, those matches. czm underestimated cooller, his confidence defeated him

what I'm saying is that best q3 player don't mean just the guy that won most competitions but also the guy that have the bigger potential

Imo the best Quake3 Player ever is fatality. Honestly, he made Q3 to that, what Hulk Hogan made in wrestling.

Players like Zero4 and especially Cooller brought Quake3 to the next level, no doubt. That's a great work too, but as soon we talk about the word "ever" it's fatality. I just want to remember u guys, when Qcon 2002 was announced and he returned one more time after a long period of inactivity of Quake3. He adapted quite easily and caught up the skill that was performed to this time.

you know... what hulk hulgan did uhh... well, it wasn't real. Maybe picking an actual famous sportsman to use as an example would've made a better choice. Just saying.

U have no idea what wrestling really is, have u ?

It's not about the things they showed in the ring, it's the status of this "sport" in general.

hmm still think had cooller not lost vs socrates he would have went on to win

yeah if cooller had not lost, he would have won. :>

you know what I mean :)

I think he was the only one capable of beating unkind, had the maps gone his way

he did win the wcg ru qualifiers anyway

This was an awesome match and watching it live with djWheat was amazing. No one believed cooller could do it Zero4 was gonna have an easy first spot in the group.

If anyone has a the Shoutcast somewhere plz dig it up i'd sell my right nut for it.