awesome, i can now cover my walls!

btw, if you're equating communists to nazis, have a big F. U.

The left is just a mirror image of the right imo :P the russians have mass graves too you know

you're ignorant to no end =\

YES!! COMMUNISTS WERE GOOD, FOR EXAMPLE: THEY SAVED POLAND FROM THE NAZIS!! LONG LIVE UNCLE STALIN!!1!1
not sure who's ignorant here...

oh no, pan rudy didn't kill off all of his jewish neighbors, so no hes upset! :((

haha, the more you write the more i pity you

Haha, thanks my dear!
Do you even know what highest grade you could attend under post-war nazi occupation? What would be the forced population limit?

also, you're a total idiot if you think politics can be "good" or "bad". Big countries push around smaller countries and always have. Those positions also change, btw.

nazi germany also "push around smaller countries" but somehow you're upset when someone equates them to soviet russia.
and what you're trying to say? that poland and other countries should be grateful? you're right, there is no good to worse to bad history scale. we were fucked up either way.

I'm trying to say that I ditest comparisons between S.U. and Nazi Germany for the following reasons.
One was a great "civilized" European superpower with goals to exterminate most of the populations and enslave the remains on all territory would occupy, which already started exterminating A RACE within its borders, with open official policies and ideology so unhuman people still shiver. Another was a country in complete shambles with 30 year old internal political war whose goal was only to survive the onslaught of this totally nice european nation. How can you even compare the two? Who is the aggressor? Humph?

with open official policies and ideology so unhuman people still shiver
sorry, but this applies also to ussr :(
and ever heard of molotov-ribbentrop pact?

"sorry, but this applies also to ussr :("
What exactly? Haha, last time I checked the official communist policy was to establish a global utopia :)))
"ever heard of molotov-ribbentrop pact?"
Haha, ever heard of "delaying a total fucking destruction" and political maneuvering ? :)

yeah they only wanted to "survive" ... wohooo seems the ~30 million people stalin killed were just training in survival camps. cause you need some training to "survive". o_O

uhm, those people died because they were forced to build an industry and infrastructure out of nothing in order to defend the country. If not for the the completely maniacal tyrant like Stalin, the country would unfortunately be over-run faster then France :(

lol @ u

just research the backgrounds of the guys who started the communist party, where they came from and their real names

huh? that didn't make any sense whats so ever to me, what you're talking about and what you're trying to say.

somehow i think that you're trying to defend this madness.

Umm, duh?
Why would I try to defend my existence which is a result of the defeat of the Nazis?! UNTHINKABLE!!!!111

i was talking about madness in ANY way. if its wasnt for the soviets (my grandpa was a soviet prisoner of war and on his way home he met my grandmother) i wouldnt be here today arguing with you about this but i'm not saying : "hey fuck the millions of people who died because some motherfuckers were dumb as shit and even more motherfuckers dumb as shit followed them, because i am here now"

Stalins behavior was not madness, in ANY way. It was savvy politics. He got a country in the worst shape in the entire region and he left it as the only other superpower with a nuclear weapon. Yeah, that madness.

killing millions is ALWAYS madness.

Then the whole of the human history is all madness. Defending your home country is madness.
You must be living in a world where countries are just cows chewing grass and not violent carnivores looking to eat somebody. I have nothing to talk about with you then.

If you can't see that Stalin wasn't only about peace & love, you need brain surgery.

If you think there is such thing as peace&love in politics, you need surgery.

That has absolutely nothing to do with my post. I simply pointed out that you were completely dismissing all the evidence showing that Stalin was a tyrant and at the head of a totalitarian regime. Although the definition of totalitarian is somewhat vague (and I invite you to consult Hannah Arendt's work on the subject), surely you can agree that you'd rather live in a democracy than in a totalitarian (or autoritarian) regime?

Yes, I'd rather live in a democracy. However, democracy went extinct in Athens and never been reborn. Russia went from oligarchy to monarchy many times depending on the strength of the ruler. Particularities of each head added their own *flavor*. USSR has introduced a completely new socialist ideology. I would prefer USSR with its collective socialism to capitalist USA oligarchy. My second choice to USSR would be Sweden. As to what you were pointing out... that Stalinist Russia was a totalitarian regime.. but saying that you sort of stop short of why. You're not looking at the surroundings. Unfortunately countries do not evolve without the influence of the surroundings. At that time, totalitarian regime was imposed by a country pretty much on itself for survival and yes, Stalins uncompromising ensured the rigidness of the construction.
Russia was a complete and utter mess. One big collective farm ravaged by one world war and three civil wars.
Like I said, if you are not an idiot you should understand countries are surrounded by other countries carnivores. Any normal politician would also understand this. So did Stalin. I'm not saying he was a good guy, I'm just saying he understood the threat and tried to prepare the best he could.
This is why people were rounded up on big "communistic building" projects, put in labor camps, into collective farming.
Not to kill off millions mindlessly, but to prepare for war.
And S.U. was prepared. I'm very interested if you could show me how it would be prepared in another way.
Do you even know how much was done in this short time out of completely nothing?
And Germany attacked, and S.U. won. There is no place for subjective method when talking about the past. This is how S.U. won and I'm just grateful it did.

yeah russia won, and things were just great since then in eastern europe.
they should keep that "victory" to themselves

go hug some estonians, or something.
Like I said, big countries push around smaller ones as a fact of nature. And please before you continue that line, do some research on what the nazis planed for the occupied countries and then tell me which one you like better.

Oh then if it's a fact of nature then I guess it should not be subject to criticism.

*cough*

Yeah? What the hell kind of a pointless discussion would that be?
Dihydrogenoxide kills thousands of people a year!! I HATE IT!!! *shakes fists

*cough*

What the hell? I don't even know what to say... Do you reply for the sake of replying?

No. Try to think. If a bully hits a little kid over the head and If there are no parents, what should the little kid do? Keep crying?

Kicking the bully's ass is something, proceeding to beat the other, smaller kids into submission is another.

Noup, it's the same damn pattern. Every country imposes it's will as much as it can on as many as it can. Naturally. This is a banality to infinity.

So now that I've shown how completely inadequate your comparison was, you're going back to the "it's natural to invade and occupy countries and repress populations" argument, that I have already answered?

Uh no, i was explaining THAT part of my post because it's the part the guy replied to me about. You did not show anything about my original explanation of the history, comment #53.

big countries push around smaller ones as a fact of nature.

Hmm it depends on the country and time. Myself coming from an extremely small country in the western world, this is not the case. Looking around me I dont see much of this either.. In any case such statements do not justify or make genocide or tyranny acceptable because "it's nature" by ANY means..

Well, if you are isolated, there isn't much you can do.. accept maybe raid, remember Vikings? ;)
And genocide... I think ethnic clensing is quite common. No I don't think it's good, but people killing other people for whatever reason is nature, morals simply DO NOT EXTAND into politics. It's a diffrent world, there is just nothing you can do in that world but act accordingly. If you stand before an avalance, simply saying that "it is unacceptable" will not do anything. The reality simply doesn't give a shit if hnns finds it unacceptable. God. This is my last post!

What the hell is "natural"? Two centuries ago, it would be "natural" for women to be inferior to men, now it's "natural" that both are equal. See the problem? It's not "natural" for countries to invade and repress. Just because empires/nations have done it in the past does not mean it's natural. If your parents get put in jail for voicing their opinion, would you consider it "natural"?

"Oh, nevermind that they're my parents, I'm happy they got put in jail because it's only natural for the totalitarian regime I live in to prevent people from expressing their views. I am now going to masturbate to Stalin's picture for the next two hours."

"See the problem? It's not "natural" for countries to invade and repress."
You're an idiot. It is. It is nature for organized groups of people to never have enough of certain something like resources and therefore contest over it. I'm putting you in ignore for stupidity.

zzz

Opinions changing about certain subjects do not necessarily mean the change goes towards a truer view. Men and women are not "equal", this is just some feminist and egalitarianist theory that is getting more attention because it fits today's moral canon better. Similar analysis can be made about war.

I didn't say that, I'm only pointing out that justifying things with the "it's natural" argument is wrong, since what seems natural at a certain place/time isn't at another place/time.

Isn't much we can do, huh? I said we were a small country that isn't getting pushed around by bigger countries. I don't know how I can explain it further?

"Killing people for whatever reason is nature" <- No, its not, and its extremely sad that you would hold that opinion. You're rationalizing genocide and mass-murdering of dozen million people by saying "it's nature". Sorry but that's BULLSHIT and don't let anyone catch you using that arguement again. Maybe in the USSR.

I would like to point out that the following text is by no means a subset of the USSR agenda, which would lead one to think that freedom is nothing more than an empty prescription issued by those who foolishly advocate 'freedom'. I'm not sure if this is simple enough for someone like you to understand, but I hope you don't take this as an insult, as everyone can not be gifted with the understanding of the inner workings of rulings of our universe today. I thank you for your attention and I hope you do well in your life, as it would sadden me tosee someone like you fall prey to the masses of destructive politics.

Are you replying to me?
"freedom is nothing more than an empty prescription issued by those who foolishly advocate 'freedom'"
Precisely.

lol why cant you admit your people did great evil? we brits are the worst, we raped anf piliaged the world and still at it via america, africa is in the state it is because of us, israel & the trouble there is down to us, we're still at it, its just not as visible

"lol why cant you admit your people did great evil?"
Lol why can't u!! Yess!! My people did a great evil, if they didn't you'd be in the hitler ugend!!
"we brits are the worst, we raped anf piliaged the world and still at it via america, africa is in the state it is because of us, israel & the trouble there is down to us, we're still at it, its just not as visible"
Haha, do you realize how precisely true that is? besides the "not visible" and "worst" part. cause no one could possibly be good or bad when it's plain geopolitics.

did you take ur meds today?
and yes we needed USSR during the war. and Stalin's an asshole.
and so are you.
kthxbye.

bye.
child.

rofl, im 16, and you act more childish than anyone at all. youre in such denial right now it's pathetic.

How do you think I know you're 16?

Of course you can't equate them. Everyone knows communists were much worse.

Another idiot with a Good to Worse to Bad history scale. Get back to kindergarten =p

Communists were also much better... at killing people.

My scale goes upwards as well.

A general statement like that is completely pointless. Probably exemplary of the smartest comment you could come up with on history. Again, you're an idiot if you summarize history by Good/Bad. Go back to kindergarten.

Nah I can come up with much better comments. I don't want to get into discussion about 'better' and we're straying off topic here. Enough trolling.

n1 edit there. I don't summarize history by Good/Bad.

"Everyone knows communists were much worse."
You know what, you deserve a Steel Cross with Wings and Brilliants for this. Of course every single person just knows, from the bottom of their heart, they are convinced, that the communists were much, much, worse. Can't argue with that. Can't say you don't summarize history with comparatives of 'bad' either.

=P

Tip: it's green and tall and needs a haircut (at least in WoW universe).

is it a horse???

haha, russian kids are still brainwashed? Stalin can easily be compared to Hitler. He probably killed more people though.

Haha, are you still an idiot? Did anybody mention Hitler before you? Did anyone make any stupid Stalin>Hitler or ruler=regime comparisons before you?

umm if you're too dumb to make the connection between nazism and communism in Stalin and Hitler I can't help you. What do they teach you in russia anyway?

You're obviously too dumb to see that the fact that they are connected doesn't mean that they are one and the same. What do you have for a brain anyway?

i never say they were one and the same, this is the second time you've put words in my mouth. i just said they can easily be compared, and they constantly are, as evil men, the biggest mass murderers in history and rulers of nations.


oh and
"what do i have for a brain?" grow the fuck up

I'm sorry sir, it's just that "Stalin can easily be compared to Hitler" is a populist statement that does not warrent any historical interest on my part, nor does it bare any mention before your got into my fiesta fun =)

gimme one as well

Found this awhile ago and love them, seeing we have nazi posters why not Americans :D

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-posters/american.htm

and Brits :D

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-posters/uk-ww2.htm

ban!

you want US propaganda? 24/7 live on fox news! :)

Fox propaganda is poor :(

I dont really care about the polictical msg behind these im more intrested in the iconology used by the communist and nazis

Look, the only reason I got upset is because the in actually content in a soviet poster couldn't possibly compare to a nazi poster. I read your main post like "well if the posters of the jews crucified are ok, then I'll share some posters portraying Hitler as an evil looking men!" Do you see how ridiculous that seems to me?

they share something ... it's all terror-regime propaganda.

Your view is childish. Any regime can be classified as terror-regime.

...that's simply not true.

wasnt comparing them to nazis propaganda posters as most arent anything to do with war, it was more to do with the style not the content

"seeing we have nazi posters why not communists :D"
Maybe you should edit, if that what you mean.

i see that comment as perfectly innocent.

i read it as: seeing as we have nazi posters on a gaming site, lets pop on some commie ones too (ie. another type of historical propaganda on a gaming site, how quirky)

Stalin was as evil as Hitler, no doubt. If you say Nazism (national socialism) is bad because of Hitler then Communism (and essentially soviet union, at least while he was in power, etc) is bad because of Stalin EVEN THOUGH nazism is not Hitlerism and Communism is not Stalinism.

Gulags, executions, starvation, purge, millions of deaths..? Are these not comparable at all to the "death of 6 million jews"? I guess you can't objectively analyze these matters as it's your MOTHERLAND and OMG BLIND PATRIOTISM strikes in and the love for FATHER SUNSHINE.

Regardless, it appears that a minimum of around 10 million surplus deaths (4 million by repression and 6 million from famine) are attributable to the regime, with a number of recent books suggesting a probable figure of somewhere between 15 to 20 million. Adding 6-8 million famine victims to Erlikman's estimates above, for example, would yield a figure of between 15 and 17 million victims. Pioneering researcher Robert Conquest[15], meanwhile, has revised his original estimate of up to 30 million victims down to 20 million. Others, however, continue to maintain that their earlier much higher estimates are correct.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin#Number_of_victims

..Or did I completely misunderstand the point being made?

"Stalin was as evil as Hitler, no doubt."
If you want to look at thinks from such a childish perspective. Sure.
"If you say Nazism (national socialism) is bad because of Hitler then Communism (and essentially soviet union, at least while he was in power, etc) is bad because of Stalin EVEN THOUGH nazism is not Hitlerism and Communism is not Stalinism."
No, and no. Also, I refrain from using such meaningless words as "bad". Now, in my twisted mind, the nazi ideology and the communist ideology are complete fucking opposites. Do you think this doesn't reflect on the thoughts people had in their heads while following orders, the structures, goals, ... ? Even though reality made them closer, you can't put an equal sign there.

"Gulags, executions, starvation, purge, millions of deaths..?"
heelloo? look arouuund the gloooobeee? You don't even need to look at the middle east and preceding history.
"Are these not comparable at all to the "death of 6 million jews"? I guess you can't objectively analyze these matters as it's your MOTHERLAND and OMG BLIND PATRIOTISM strikes in and the love for FATHER SUNSHINE."
Comment #53
Also, do you, in all seriousness, think there was a "final solution" according to which the country would commit suicide?
"Regardless, it appears that a minimum of around 10 million sur..."
Your numbers are absurd. To no surprise, considering the sources, or the fact that you never lived in a country you're talking about, don't know it's language, and therefore don't even suspect you're one of the brainwashed generation. Unfortunately for the anti-soviet mouthpieces the archives of NKVD and gulags have been declassifies in the late 90's.
From 1921 to 1953 there were 4 million people incriminated with the article 58 of the Criminal Code (counterrevolutionary actions and heavy crimes against the state). Out of those about 800 000 have been sentenced to execution. Besides that loose estimates allow that about 600 000 died in incarceration, so the sum number of victims is 1.4 million people.
As to femine, the common claims are 6 to 10 million, 3-7 of which in Ukrain. However, thanks to demographical stats we know that in 1932, 780 000 people were born, and 668 000 died. In 1933, 359 000 were born, 1.3 million died. These figures include natural deaths, but it's obviouse that hunger was the prevelant cause. As cruel as it was, it also wasn't a random act of aggression against own people. There was a drought and the officials confiscated all of the yeilds to fullfill the state plan.
In 1976 Solzhenicin said that from 1917 to 1959, 110 million died in USSR. It’s hard to even start commenting on these stupidities. In reality the increases in populated were more then 1%, which was more then in UK or France. In 1926, USSR had 147 mil. People, in 1937, 162 mil, and in 1939 170.5 million. These numbers do not correlate in any way with tens of millions deaths.
I do not deny the terror in Stalinist russia, but I still can not compare using terror to make people work or discarding of the anti-communist, anti-Stalin political enemies to Genocide of a race and genocide of the world. And you people still refuse to notice that Nazi Germany was the aggressor. That it matters somehow. Perhaps I am blinded by patriotism, or maybe I just wasn't indoctrenated in the "USSR=NAZIS=EVIL=DESTROY" club. The deaths that came from Stalins deadly uncompromising approach still do not come close to what WW2 did to the country, or what would have happened if he didn't make it ready for war, and we lost. Sacraficing few for the many is exactly why I'm never going to go into politics, as human beings become statistics and you have to weight people against natural resources, etc. Anyway, If you have any more questions on numbers and why and what, I’ll be happy to answer.
edit: forgot the femine part

i didnt say that it's not interesting from an historical POV :)

nanana!! see you're just a big child and a hypocrite

nazi=shit
communists=shit

kthxbye

/me chks the url ... ye its still esr :P

thought it was comedy central

Yeltsin is a giant tool.

it seems that he is, unfortunetly just like many other russians

Why dear?! My Booger?!!? WHY!!!!!

awesome stuff

www.foxnews.com

I so want people like steg and therailmccoy back :(

Aside from all the political blabla above, I just wanted to say those posters are totally awesome esthetically wise :)

mmm sweet political flame..

was that an attempt at being funny?

they look way more artistic than the nazi ones

Here's one combining some *RED* elements.. ;-D
Obviously image copyright is mine!
http://bytemunch.net/pushpabon/i_see_red_people.png

lol use higher res, so yelts can use as background!