1 word:

Wingman

nuff said.

Thread I started answering some of the questions here:

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1173350

1. Currently using Razer Diamondback Plasma, switching to WMO 1.1a when it breaks. Used an MX518 before that.

2. Using default Windows drivers, sensitivity at 15cm/360°, four notches in Control Panel with pointer precision off, polling set at 1000Hz for an effective 750Hz.

3. Currently using Razer eXactMat, Speed side, but moving to a SteelPad 5L.

a) When I was new to performance mice and I got to review a DB and the eXactMat for my job, and I liked how it glided so much smoother than my cheapo mouse + mousepad at home, so I ended up buying them both. Now since I'm lowering my sensitivity slightly over a period of time, the size helps (but I'm running out of room). Moving to the 5L because after using a hard surface for a while the bone on the outside of my wrist starts to hurt. :<

4. In between fingertip and palm style.

5. Slow for aiming/LG, fast for rocket jumping and other trickjumps. No skipping so far due to the DB's high negative acceleration threshold and my high sens.

6. I'd say half an inch at most. Never noticed it tracking even while lifted (as it would have screwed up my game) on the eMat, but on a black cloth pad, it did continuously track despite being lifted the same height.

7. No experience with laser mice as of yet.

8. Not related, but I've broken two Classic Keyboard Plus'es in as many months (I'm heavy-handed, but I don't smash it with a fist or anything). You guys are great with the other stuff, but keyboards not so much. :<

Hi, I'm God and I too have been keeping a low profile.

Dad i wondered where you were hanging out these days.Guess we've both been keeping a low profile :)

mom?!

yes?

Logimgr, it would be wise to identify yourself, making a valid link between your useraccount here and lets say a page on logitech.com ?

Would be quite a laugh if this is a setup

.

i dont like low profile tyres

:D

i like you god <3 but your fanclub is really gay :(

Lolgay?

Hell4them.

ergonomics > 6900dpi/40000hertz/flashy lights/34 buttons/etc

1. IE 3.0, used mx518, g5, g3, wmo 1.1a, fat 1010, generics...
2. 30cm/360
3. qck heavy for size and cloth for the feedback
4. palm
5. forearm movement, not wrist, and MOST mice give neg accel on quick 180 turns at 30cm/360 or lower. would like that to stop thanks.
6. the 3.0 has perfect sensor strength. any stronger and it would toss my view on lift and putdown due to tracking from too high off the mat.
7. NOBODY CARES what powers their mouse as long as it is accurate and doesn't have any tracking or speed problems.
8. Would you be so kind as to clone the ie 3.0 design but improve on it before the habu rolls all over your faces?

McFly is gonna post the biggest fuckin' post ever later tonight!

:D

bbl

hahahha :D:D

don't get jamerio on our asses

1) Logitech G1 atm, Logitech MX500 before that.
2) Default settings, without a driver.
3)DKT XXXL, before that func1030 (but it was too small)
a)For better gliding. Better tracking performance. Size.
4) ...
5) low sense
6) about 1cm~
7) don't care
8) <3

mx518 with g5 mousefeet and out-of-the-box 500hz would be godlike.
That's all i have to say :P

A fairly large (such as the Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0) mouse with an ambidextrous design and an optical sensor I imagine would be very successful.

I want Logitech to know Mouseman Dual Optical is the best mouse ever and lasted me for 6 years.

except it clicks so loud now my neighbours have been complaining

I concur, i've had mine for 5 years and i love the clicking!

1)Razer Copperhead : old mice G5;MX518;Razer Diamondback;mx500, tried some MS WMO too.

2)Depends on game: ~20cm/360 - USB 500 hz : using mouse3,mousewheel,mouse4 for weaponswitching

3)Everglide TiTan cause i can rest my arm on it while playing and it gives me more space than all other pads i got. the feeling while moving the mouse is better than on plastic

4)thumb and little finger on the siderails, palm on the back of the mouse to rest it and the fingertips on the buttons, the rest of the fingers dont touch teh mouse.

5)I don´t move the mouse alot or fast, only when i do flickshoots, rest of the time very low movment looking into the direction where i think enemy is. played 40cm/360 in q4, its for me almost the same, i got only the ability now to turn around fast when its needed (me is UT(1) Player)

6)Did lift the mouse alot, now no need to do it, but its better if the mice dont track so high.

7)Laser feels better but i am more confident with optical since i had some troubles at the beginning with laser mice, it didnt jerk out for a very long time now. (used also 500mhz on optical)

8)Try doing much lighter mice like Razer does, my hand starts hurting when i use G5, Mx518 is only little bit better bot not light enough. Moving heavy mice is to unaccurat for games like ut1 or wherer u need to adjust your cross around 0.5 mm.

1. Using now: Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
Used: Logitech MX510 & Razer Diamondback

2. 22cm/360deg @ 500hz. Use mousebutton 1 and 2 for firing. Use mousebutton 4 and 5 to switch Fov in UT2k4.

3. Currently using an Steelpad S&S
Used: Icemat 2nd v (with MX510) and Everglide Titan (with Diamondback)

4. Fingergrip style (mainly why I don't like the MX5xx models)

5. Lot's of quick short flicks

6. My guess is 5mm. Current mouse works fine with that, diamondback had problems with still tracking at that height.

7. Optical. Laser seems to be having trouble with surfaces (no experience)

8. Quit with all the gimmicks and make a rock solid mouse. There is a reason why I am using Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 that isn't cash-related.

1) what type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?
mx500
mouseman wheel

2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen [small]shot of your control panels, even better.
5 notch, and no accel in mouseware. usb at 250hz
with tracking optimized set to speed in the mouseware advanced settings.

3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.
a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?
a cloth pad (Steelpad qck+)
cloth coz i like friction. i find that it has better tracking and i dont have to put an extra effort to "stop" like u do with plastic/glass/etc type pads.

4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?
kinda both. covering it with the larger part part(left side) of my palm, but all sow using the thumb, index, middle, and the one beside it(dont know the name:)

5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.
all of the movements tbh.
low-mid sens user.

6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?
bellow 1cm

7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?
optical.
find them more reliable.

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?
would be nice if there was a mouse with the mouseman wheel shape brought back( and no, mx610 isnt good enough).

Archive.

OMG TEH IRONING!

1) Logitech MX400 current. Past: Logitech BJ69, Logitech Dual Optical, Logitech MX500, MS WMO 1.1. Now searching for MS IE3, because MS mice haven't such strange movement lag and so big negative accel. I loved my WMO :/ (I love Logitech too because of mice that fits to my big hand perfectly)

2) Middle in Windows, accel turned off. Q3 sens 4/accel 0.1, yaw/pitch 0.014. (USB 125, because MX400 can't handle more...)

3) Steelpad QcK
a) Tracking is really hard. Sometimes mouse loses it's view or smth and stops.

4) Default, wrist on pad, bended fingers.

5) Slow movement, sometimes fast if I need to turn 180. Big mousepad helps me to track enemy for a longer time (LG, MG)

6) When I migrated from MS WMO 1.1, I had to lift up my mouse much higher. Maybe it's because of laser. Anyway it's ok now, I got used it.

7) OPTICAL! Laser tracking is too sensitive. Even one hair can get my laser mouse bugged... Maybe I need mousepad for laser mice, but I think QcK should be good.

8) Try to make more custom mouse. For example something like MS IE3 with MX518 engine. Designers should show drawings for gamers, so You could make perfect mouse.

1) i use G5, before dunno a mouse with a ball

2) http://users.skynet.be/fa568952/b.JPG
dpi: 800
i use almost the most of my buttons to acces my guns.


3) the bureau underground

a) its the best i have here, don't know of its bad for anythings.

4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?

5) /

6) /

7) didn't even use the both, so i haven't a clu

8)easyer acces for the mouse buttons in the games would be great.

1| microsoft wmo 1.1a

2|

3| steelpad QcK

4| fingertip grip

5| short, fast movements / low-mid sensitivity, mouse accel on / no problems

6| 1cm highest / no problems

7| optical (haven't tried laser yet)

8| yes, please make this mouse optical.. thanx

INDEED.

ive been waiting for this a loooong time xD

haha the best mouse ever !! never found such shape...
wished they could make it optical...

(1) Logitech MX300
(3) FATpad
(3a) I use it for the size and that the MX300 glides across it very smooth. Very soft on your hands as well.
(4) I hold the mouse with my fingertips mostly.
(5) Most of my game movement is in a very smooth fashion I generally do not snap as much. I am usually mixed with short and long movements. I prefer lower sensitivites.
(6) The highest I'd ever lift my mouse is a centimeter or two, maybe.
(8) I absolutely love the MX300 and have always waited for something newer to try. However, every new product has had a different body design. I don't like all of the angled surfaces and odd shapes that mice come in today. (E.G. G5 laser, MX518) The only mice that have the same type of design are smaller than the MX300. Please design/release another mouse that is the same basic mouse design but still has the size of the MX300 or maybe a tad bigger. The weight is awesome as well. Very smooth mouse. MX300 rocks.. (or just release more MX300's to Best Buy..)X300

You know about the G1 and G3, right?

G1 is too hard to find and G3 skips

Yeah, very stupid not to release G1 in North America.

Never understood that.

I was not happy with that decision either. If they had released it, I would not have bought the G3.

OMFG I had never heard of the G1. That's awesome! my buddy plays a lil bit, and swears by his mx300. I've gotta get him a G1, once he upgrades his other shiat.

Can I order this online? even though it's not available here?
(USA)

1) MS IE3. Tried many, including most logi.

2) In Quake 3, sense 6. Used to use sense 2, acceleration 2. Button assignments TFGH. Report rate? Not sure what that is, but my USB poll rate changed to 1000hz.

3) Finely made EYEpad. Basically smooth thinly woven cloth.
a) I favor new clean cloth for mousing surface. For better gliding and for better tracking performance. Best size is A4. Aesthetics don't matter.

4) Uhm. I put my hand on it and use my fingers to move it? Is there any other way? I guess my hand just holds the mouse...

5) I think I move it in every way possible.....? I don't see any way IE3 fails at anything, ever.

6) About 1-2 cm. Logi mice had a different height of when they no longer track the surface, I think I didn't like that because it was harder to "reposition" the mouse.

7) Good question.

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?
Yes. I don't like the way the Logitech drivers handle higher DPI. I never liked having to use sensitivity .01 and acceleration .0045 in Quake 3. I also never liked the form of logitech mice, and I think this is the most important feature of a mouse that inherently depends on the buyer. It might be a good idea to have different form mice with similar tech.

No shitty drivers , no on fly dpishit
400dpi , WORKS ON LOWSENSI LIKE 360degrees on 55cm
(ms optical basic is closest one which almost works)
and works on 500hz

1) Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0; past models: IntelliMouse Explorer 1.0, Explorer 4.0, IntelliMouse Optical 1.1, Microsoft Comfort Optical 3000

2) Sens: ~28cm/360; MOUSE1/2 shoot and shoot-function nr. 2, Wheel for weaponswitching; 500 hz USB-rate and anir's accelfix.exe
Microsoft-driver-software is set up totally standard.

3) Steelpad QCK+
a) Nice glide, low friction for small movements, big enough for long movements

4) Fingertips to controll it, palm rests on the mouse

5) all playstyles mentioned; medium/lowsens;
The Microsoftmice give me negative acceleration - VERY nasty

6) I lift the mouse about 7mm to 1cm, while the upper side of the mouse gets lifted higher than the lower

7) Optical, no skipping.

8) Copy Microsoft. They really know how to make ergonomic shapes.

8) Copy Microsoft. They really know how to make ergonomic shapes.

Have to agree on this one.
M$ have been very good at making nice shapes for gaming.
Too bad the sensors always suck.
This is where Logitech is much, much better.

not

1) Currently: mx518 again after trying g1
Used: mx5**(510/500)

2) Setpoint drivers, 800dpi, middle notch, accelfix.exe, 500hz, ~55-60cm for 360 in game.

3) Selfmade icemat, feels exactly the same as icemat just bigger, made out of satin glass(i think that's how it's called). I prefer it mainly because it's not going to wear down like cloth pads or plastic ones. Also the glide is really nice for low sens.

4) Fingertip... And mx5** are the only mice i feel comfortable with fingertip style beacause i can hold my 2nd finger from right side(using right hand) on the side of the mouse near mouse2 button. Which helps me to control the mouse better :P

5) No flickering in the game i play >:) Pure tracking all the time, so gliding fast/slow is basicly all i need.

6) About 1cm, i have no problems with that.

7) Optical, laser doesn't work on the pad im using :) And i dislike the weird feel of laser, it feels like im playing with acceleration :/

8) <3 you

1) Logitech MX518.

2) 1600dpi set for everything. SetPoint pointer speed is set to the 5th line from the left (out of the 11), and acceleration is off too (I don't use acceleration on in-game settings either). USB polling rate has been over-clocked to 250Hz.
As for button assignments:
- 1: Left Click
- 2: Right Click
- 3: Generic Button
- 4: Keystroke Assignment
- 5: Keystroke Assignment
- 6: Document Flip
- 7: Keystroke Assignment
- 8: Keystroke Assignment

I've had to set the thumb buttons and + & - buttons to keystrokes so I can have them work game binds in older games not supporting the buttons. Due to this, I'd really love to see a proper profile system (software or hardware, I care not) implemented, so that when game executables are assigned and loaded, the settings are applied for the particular game, and when quit they revert back to desktop settings.

3) Steelpad 4D. I use the rougher side of this plastic composite surface.
a) It has a fairly low amount of friction, and the mouse still seems to tracks perfectly on it even with some of the dirt it has picked up. It's small, but I have pretty highly sensitive settings, so I only use around half of it.

4) I palm the mouse all the time, no exceptions for any type of application.

5) For all first person shooters I make the sensitivity such that in a comfortable small wrist movement my player rotates 180 degrees. I move my mouse approximately 8cm laterally for a 360 degree rotation. My style is mainly short flicking. My mouse has no failures with this style.

6) I lift it around 1cm, but I tilt the mouse so the front end is higher (natural since I palm the mouse and control with mainly wrist movement). This stops tracking altogether, which isn't a problem with my playing style because I can lift the mouse and place it in its original position quickly as I don't move the mouse far at all.

7) I've never used a laser mouse, but I find the precision of the high-end optical MX-518 adequate for all uses.

8) Never stop making the MX518, unless you upgrade it such that you class it as a new model. The loss of that second thumb button on the G5 is such a letdown; if you remove buttons, the people who used them now cannot, but if you leave them there everyone is catered for. Those who complain about the extra buttons getting the way should not spoil the functionality for others, which is one of the main reasons why I neglected to purchase the G5 and stay with the MX518.

1) Microsoft Wheelmouse Optical: Because it is LIGHT, CHEAP, COMFORTABLE and you dont need high DPI to be good at aiming (altough I'm sure more wouldnt hurt).



2) Default windows sensitivity (as you can tweak sens ingame as much as you want) no mouse acceleration in Windows, i.e. I've run the CPL Registry fix. (attached: see bottom of this post)

3) I'm using a Steelpad S&S which is what is considered as a low friction mouse surface along with mouse skates which ensure that there is less friction between the mouse and the mouse pad and ensuring that the original "skates" on the mouse dont wear down. Most gamers use a cloth pad.

a) I read the reviews and it seemed to be the best SteelSeries choice at the time so I bought it.

4) Fingertips on the mouse buttons, as explained to me by a local professional, it makes clicking easier/faster and prevents the middle of your hand from resting on the mouse (ultimately making tracking easier).

5) Went from low sens to high, but use arm to move mouse.

6) When I used low sensitivity I would often lift my mouse very high and would make a banging sound whenever I flicked my mouse around. I would also notice different amounts of tracking on different mouse pads: i.e. no tracking at all if lifted high enough. This isnt a problem now that I play with a high sensitivity.

7) From what I've seen, Laser mice are overpriced and most importantly too heavy, most of them "skip" which is when the mouse stops tracking alltogether if it is accelerated too quickly.

8) Please make a cheap, light and comfortable mouse that can be accelerated very quickly without "skipping". Most professionals (in Quake 3/4) use the Microsoft Wheelmouse Optical because it is very light and doesnt skip. Drivers are a very big selling point to the hardcore gamer. It would be really great to have Quake 3 acceleration in Windows (and therefore in other games). The Quake 3 source code has gone open source and can be downloaded, so implementation of this will be really easy for driver programmers.

Attached Misc File: 47027-cpl_mouse_fix.zip (0KB)

[+]
Agreed 100%. Who would have thought Microsoft could make good mice? That's what I thought until I tried the MS1.1a. Hope Logitech can pull off a similar but better mouse...

1) MX300 + Hyperglides now, IE3/MX300 before ;]
2) No drivers, 500Mhz fix, acceleration off, no shitty buttons, 400 dpi
3) DKT XL
a) Hmm, it feels good - not too slow, not too fast, quite big :P
4) Fingertips on mouse buttons, palm on mousepad :P
5) I'm low-sens so I need to move it FAST :-) Both IE3 and MX300 with fixed refreshrate do their job :P
6) Like 0,7-1 cm
7) Never tried laser one, I'm happy with my MX300/IE3 :o)
8) I don't need 665 buttons and gimmick like on-the-fly dpi switch. Make it simple :D

1) Currently: Logitech G5 (in lack of a better shape with good optics). Previously: MX518, Diamonback, , Mx310, MX300, Copperhead, MS IE3.0, MS Intellimouse optical 1.1SE, MS wheelmouse optical.

2) 500Hz, setpoint drivers. OS implementation for speed and acceleration. Side-button set to middle-button (for compatability). Mousewheel left and right - back/forward in browsers. Sensitivty sliders on middle notch (both windows and setpoint). No acceleration. 800DPI.

3) Steelpad S&S. Rough plastic.
a) No other surface gives me as high top-speed while maintaining precission. Very low resistance. Needs harder mousefeet than G5 originals (Please remove the pads and make the feet pure teflon with only glue added).

4) Mix between fingertip and palm. Sometimes do both depending on what weapon I use.

5) Medium to long movemets. Some flicks. Mostly try to avoid long flickshots, as it's not as accurate. Sensitivity is aprox 30cm for 360 degree turn.

6) Only as far as I have to (depends on mice).

7) Laser as long as the sensor can read at high speeds on my preferred surface.

8) Either increase pictures/second or lower dpi on future sensors. Btw forgot, MX400 has that classic mouseman shape (IMO the best ergonomic shape ever), give it an excellent sensor, 500hz and 2 good sidebuttons for gaming.

I used to own the MX500, then 510 and then 518 (heck, why all the successors? just come out with 1 model that will stand the test of time dammit. It may be a successful money-making scheme, but only until the market just becomes fed up and decides to abandon Logitech all together :/), but have since switched to the Microsoft Intellimouse Optical 1.1A.
I know you don't want to hear this as a Logitech representative, but I prefer it by MILES over the Logitechs i've used. Best of all, I paid R130 (~US$20) for it first hand, so the value is also much better :/ Its a comfortable, light, simple but yet highly effective mouse for gaming despite its apparent 400dpi (its never skipped for me once, and ingame tracking is phenomenal).
I have a steelpad qck+ mousepad and icemat mouse skatez which were designed for the intellimouse.

What annoyed me about the Logitech mice:
1. All the almost mandatory custom drivers etc for logitech when most gamers prefer to use windows default (we have to often play on sponsored computers at LAN competitions where using custom drivers is against tournament rules, so we just get used to having to use windows default to avoid such disputes).
2. The useless cable (i've had to replace my 510's cable 3 times as it continuously broke at the inlet to the mouse)
3. More of a personal issue (I havent heard anyone complain about): I find the smooth surface of the 510/518's surface collects a lot of a grimey/greasy residue and I have to wipe it like after virtually every game. I didn't have this issue with the MX500.

Please consider this as a form of constructive critisism and use the microsoft mouse as a success model for a future Logitech mouse, since Microsoft have abandoned the product there's a huge demand/niche for this mouse in the pro-gaming area of the mouse market. If you guys can fill that gap with a promising mouse that fulfills these basic requirements, you've got my buy...


I hold the mouse with thumb and pinky on either side, index and middle finger on mouse1 and 2 respectively (mouse4 easy to press by just lifting thumb, mouse5 I hardly ever use because i find it difficult to reach since I am right handed and the intellimouse optical is symmetrical about its center). ring ringer is also on the side between mouse2 and pinky.
- I use default windows drivers with disabled enhanced precision.
- I use CPL WinXP accelleration patch.
- I am running at USB frequency @ 1000Hz according to usbmrs11.exe - I've heard that this mouse can't handle this frequency but it seems to be working perfectly for me.
- I play counter-strike and quake -- Quake with low sensitivity (4) but accelleration (0.5). Counter-Strike with no accelleration (noforcemaccel/noforcemparms launch options) and sensitivity 2.3.
Attached is a representation of where i touch my mouse when I play. I dont lift it off the mousepad at all unless i have to reposition after large angle turns etc.
An image of the Microsoft Intellimouse Optical 1.1a can be found HERE.
THIS may also be of interest...

Good luck, and remember the recipe for success: Keep It Straight and Simple...

xD

ROFL!!! First thing that pops to mind are those Axe "Get a girlfiend" ads :) Nice write up though. Cant wait for the Logitech MxFragtion ;)

... fcku u, i have a gf ;P grr!
hehe :)

tell her to get a boyfriend then

a little bit too late

I hold that mouse in the exact same way! Nice way of showing btw.

Prooved to be a winner for me, my brother alias Frantic and others in the top UT/UT200X scene (such as Lauke for instance, although he doesnt use the side-buttons).

I have this mouse aswell.
[IMG]http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9339/1001520tj0.th.jpg[/IMG]

Best things about it = light weight (3ounces), shape, size, it doesn't skip at low sens.

I have modified it for a grippier surface, and made it look cooler ;) and also I changed the cord for a very thin one from a microsoft notebook optical mouse - which helps a lot compared to the thick cable the mouse had before, which got in the way a lot.

Might aswell answer the questions while I'm at it ;P

1) See above for current mouse. In the past I have used from the beginning of my gaming until now: ms intellimouse ball, ms intellimouse explorer 3, razer diamondback, ms notebook corded optical mouse (was light, small (for finger control instead of palm), and had rubber grips on the side) - but it did suffer from a bit of slowdown at low sens, ms wheel mouse optical, then - the mouse I have now which is basically the same as the wheel mouse optical but with 2 extra buttons.

2) I use standard sensitivity settings, 1000hz USB rate. In quake 4 I use sensitivity 4.3 and m_pitch 0.024 to make vertical shots easier.

3) Razer mantis control, its fairly hard but also quiet, and is fairly low friction.

4) I use both my fingers and my wrist and palm to control the mouse.

5) I move my mouse quite fast and do use a lot of flick moves so a mouse sensor that can keep up with the speed is useful, also it helps if the mouse is light because it is less tiring/straining on the wrist etc.

6) Yes, a gaming optical mouse needs to have less range to its sensor when you pick it up from the mouse mat. Its annoying if it tracks when you are repositioning it for more room etc.

7) I have never tried laser mice but from what I have read, they aren't so good for low sensitivity players because they don't handle high speed movements as well as optical mice. If I used high sensitivity maybe I wouldn't mind laser, but for low sensitivity I prefer optical.

8) Would be nice to have a mouse which has the following:
Fairly small (but ergonmic) and as light weight as possible, with high grip all over (including sides), very thin cable, two side buttons and ability to be used at low sensitivity without skipping/negative accelleration. Also, no "on the fly sensitivity changes" or any gimmicks at all, just a simple mouse which is made well and can retail for a fairly modest price.

1.) Currently: Logitech G3 Past: Logitech pilot, wheelmouse optical blue, mx500, mx510, mx310, mx518, G5; Microsoft: Wheelmouse optical 1.1a, IE3.0; Razer: Boomslang 1000, Diamondback Plasma

2.) I have my G3 set to 400dpi with the sensitivity notch set to 7 (of 11) with no enhanced pointer precision, no accel, OS implementation, game detection settings default (setpoint 3.01 currently). I do not use any other buttons besides mouse 1 and 2 including the button on the scroll wheel and the wheel itself.

3.) I currently use the Allsop raindrop xl. I'm using this pad because I seem to be more consistent with cloth than I am with an icemat (glass). It's definitely large enough for the sensitivity that I use and it has a really nice glide to it, yet offers enough friction to stop right where I want.

4.) I typically hold mice by finger tips, but depending upon the mouse determines how much of the back of the mouse touches my palm. Usually not very much. I move it using a combination wrist/fingertip motion depending upon how far I have to move it. Rarely do I have to move my wrist, but it's been known to happen.

5.) I pretty much track whereever I move at a slow/medium speed. Flicking is (obviously) done at a much higher speed, but with the sensitivity that I use (14cm/360) I can't generate enough speed to skip the mouse. I have, however, tested that mouse at 25-30cm/360 and lower and was able to skip the mouse by doing a realistic movement flick.

6.) I never really payed attention, but after I get used to a mouse it never is a problem. The highest I've ever had to move a mouse to reposition it was my G3/G5. I would recommend that you keep that as the max for any mouse to be lifted for a reset.

7.) For my style of mousing I don't really have a preference one way or the other. Thus far, as long as the mouse doesn't skip, it tracks fine.

8.) I'm not sure why, but laser mice have a REALLY difficult time tracking on glass surfaces and other various surfaces. I would try to figure out why if you haven't already. The ability for laser mice to track at a faster speed is also a necessity for other users. I would definitely keep in mind the need to make "simpler" mice. That being lack of extra buttons, lack of the extra "gimmicky" stuff (adjustable weight system), just toning some of them down to two buttons and a scroll wheel. Not everyone needs 15 buttons and the ability to have an extra 1.5g of weight on the rear left side of their mouse. I know logitech sells two button mice for like $10 on newegg, however these mice skip extremely easily. Microsoft sells the wheelmouse optical 1.1a for roughly the same price and it's one of the most widely used mice in this community.

Basically what I'm saying is that all gamers really need are the following three things (coincidentally they are all characteristics of the intellimouse explorer 3.0, which is why they are bringing it back):

1.) A comfy shape that everyone loves (in this case it would be your original pilot wheelmouse shape or your wingman shape (hint hint))

2.) It needs to track on just about every surface imaginable, and do it flawlessly like your MX518 does.

3.) It needs to be able to track extremely high rates of speed so you can support as many gamers as possible. I'm sure McFly will clue you in as to what exactly this entails and how to test more accurately.

Oh, and you don't really need any more than 400dpi to be accurate.

1) Logitech 510

2) left it all on defaults

3) Steelseries S&S

4) Grab it? i just stick my whole hand over it and play. i love the indent for the thumb

5) Normally short quick motions, but i try to use as much of the mousepad as i can

6) ~1cm high

7) Dont know, optical seems fine

8) i really like the ergonomic shape of the 510, fits my hand great and i can grip it well. i really like the weight too, it seems just right. adjustable weights are neat though

First of all, let me thank you for posting here.
You will not find any forum stuffed with so many harcore/pro gamers, anywhere - period.
The people using this forum are top of the top when it comes to mousing needs (is that even a word?). And I am the most harcore one when it comes to mice. :D

I hope you will continue to monitor this forum for a long time. This is where you will find the best feedback (albeit harsh critique at some times - but we want the best, we're picky)

Now for your inquiries:

1)
I keep switching back and forth between my Logitech MX310 (500Hz USB), and my own 'tweaked' MX518.
This MX518 is sawed-off to make it shorter.
It is sanded down on both sides to make it narrower.
It has hundreds of holes drilled into it to make it lighter.
It is also padded with extra leather on the left-hand side (where your thumb rests) to make it more ambidextrous.
Also, it is covered with suede leather in all the places where my hand touches the mouse.
The buttons have been covered with sandpaper to avoid slippery incidents.
The buttons themselfes - by this I mean the microswitches - have been made a lot softer/more sensitive. This I did by forcing a screwdriver on the little switch, holding it down for 20 seconds, and voila! a nice, soft/sensitive mouse button. (When you use slippery surfaces like I do, then you don't want Logitech's normal super-hard buttons. Messes up your aim.) Sadly, this can only be done with the very old MX500/300/310 mice microswitches. If you try this with a standard MX510/518, you will render the microswitch useless. (I soldered two old microswitches from an MX300 for left and right mouse buttons which I already back then had made nice and soft)
Of course, this mouse is equipped with hyperglides instead of Logitech's own feet.
And I'm running it at 500Hz, like everyone else here does.
I did the same things to the MX310, apart from the drilling and sanding down.

The reason why I'm not using the standard MX518 is simply because I think the shape is DREADFUL! It sits nicely in you palm, yes sure. But it is absolutely useless for aiming (for me). I see the MX5xx shape as a nice mouse for desktop browsing, but when it comes to gaming, it's worthless. (to me)

Other mice I've used in the past: MX300/G1, M$ 4.0 (best shape ever, too bad the sensor is garbage).
Mice that I've owned and tested: EVERY GODDAMN MOUSE OUT THERE, lol!
I have about 50 mice in my cupboard that I either don't use ever, or use as spare parts. (I'm into frankenmicing).
There isn't a mouse that is aimed at gamers that I have not owned.


2)
Using sens. 33cm@360° in UT2004.
Using sens. 19cm@360° in UT.
@ 500Hz USB
Button assignments: I have all buttons assigned to keystrokes (for weapon selection)
No acceleration (but did use it in the past for many years, might go back to using acc. any day)
The built-in XP acceleration I have killed as well.


3)
Switching between QPAD (cloth) and something called C4 nGen made by CS Hyde Company, U.S.A.
This is a piece of PTFE (Teflon) that you lay over your clothpad. This will give you the softness of the clothpad, but also gives you the super low-friction of a plastic pad.
I use stuff like fUnc liquid to make it even more slippery. (Hence, why I had to soften my mouse buttons)
I use non-laser mice. So tracking isn't a problem for me. :)


4)
It's a blend. Kinda palm it and kinda finger it (sounds dirty, eh?). I guess 'finger-palming' is what I do. I like my mice to be long and narrow. (MX310)


5)
Using very low sensitivity, I both flick and 'skate'. Imagine a madman doing flicks with the mouse really, really fast. But not just flicks with the writs, but using his whole underarm as well. I flick the mouse VERY fast (and far), so fast that the only mice that can keep up with me are the MX518 and Razer's non-Laser mice. (Not even a G1/MX510 will keep up with me @ 500Hz).
What I mean by 'keeping up' is that I get negative acceleration with all other mice. (Lasers *all* skip, regardless of which surface)


6)
I'm using a very large mousepad. Therefore, this has never been an issue for me. I hardly ever lift the mouse.
Actually, I prefer the Diamond Plasma/Krait sensor from Razer, as it tracks so 'high'.
But I don't have problems with the Logitech mice either.


7)
Ahahaha, oh don't get me started on laser mice *grrrr*
"The Great Encyclopedia of Why McFly Hates Laser Mice" is currently in it's final stages, with only 4 out of 189 volumes remaining to be written. :p

I simply cannot say *anything* positive about laser mice.
It's like mouse tech has taken a leap *backwards* in the past 2 years, since the introduction of laser sensors.
Lasers skip, have negative acceleration. They need specially designed mousepads - and that's still not enough for them not to skip like bambi on ice.

For low sensitivity gamers, lasers simply are not an option.
And trust me, the rate of low sens gamers is increasing by the day with the constant new releases of bigger and bigger mousepads. Also, games like ET, CS etc encourage low sens, where as the game I play and the game most people play in here do not require low sens. (Quake/Unreal series)

Let's take the example of MX518 vs. G5.
- 2000cpi vs 1600cpi - who cares? No-one can feel the difference anyway. (apart from placebo)
- MX518 can track on any surface, perfectly.
- G5 can hardly track on any surfaces at higher speeds.
- The G5 is a *downgrade* from the MX518.
And what's up with removing one of the thumb buttons. I use both mine on my MX518.
The only positive thing I can say about the G5 are the nice, big teflon feet.

To sum it up: If you are a low sensitivity player, then Laser mice suck!
Also, I am aware that mice are sold on the same catch phrase as CPUs get sold on; the higher cpi the better the mouse must be!
Well, maybe you could come up with something similar to the AMD "3200+" concept. Like, say this optical sensor, which really is 1600CPI, just tell people it's 3200+CPI, because it can track at greater speeds etc etc. I don't care what you do, make something up - anything. Just stop making those terrible laser mice! hehe

8)
I have a billion ideas how to make a better mouse. First and most important thing would be to either make a laser sensor that actually is *better* than the old opticals. And if that cannot be done, then stick to the MX518. Nobody will ever need anything better than that anyway, trust me. Start focusing on shapes.

I don't know how much I should get into here now, this post is dangerously close to being so long that nobody will read it.

But lemme just toss out one or two ideas I have:


- "The Custimisable Upgradable Mouse Kit"

This is probably wishful thinking.
But I imagine someone like Logitech offering a mouse, a package, that is made up of a central 'hub'.
Like the main CPU socket. Here you place the mouse's motherboard that holds the sensor and all the vital tech.
That hub/frame then fits into a generic chasis. This chasis would be like a skeleton/frame that could be adjusted in width and length - and possibly even hight.
And then comes the main 'plating'.
Good example of this is the upcoming Habu mouse from Razer/M$. On this mouse it is possible to take out the left side panel which holds some buttons. This can then be replaced or even streched (not sure how it works exactly yet) to fit a smaller or bigger hand - or different styles of holding the mouse.

Now imagine, the whole mouse can be made thinner, thicker, shorter, longer, higher, lower by using this system I propose.
Of course, there are limits to how long/short you can make a mouse, but you'd be surpised how big a difference the smallest change in shape/size can do in regard to gaming when it comes to mice.

If one keeps the main motherboard small (Krait is a good exaple), you can really make a system that is super user-custimisable and tweakable.
You could even include some sort of rubber 'foam' that the user could apply to certain areas of the mouse, then hold the mouse for 5-10mins(however long it takes for the foam to harden) - and tada! the user has a mouse that is actually shaped after his/her very own hand!
There would be virtually no ends to how many different shapes and sizes people would come up with, if one makes such a system.

Also, Logitech/whoever does this, could then sell part upgrades & add-ons. Like the newest sensor. The user would then purchase the new 32000CPI slick laser sensor, and simply plug it into his already perfectly shaped mouse (that he has shaped himself!)
I imagine chasis panels in many different colours and even different textures for better/different grip.
One could sell new button panels with new features - or simply more buttons, possibly placed differently.
Add-ons like memory upgrades for more complex profiles for different games and God only knows what.
Many possibilities in such a system.
It would be like a mini-PC system by itself.

The great thing about this system for the end-user would be that you can finally make a mouse that fits you perfectly. And no need to having to get used to a new mouse every time you want to upgrade. 'Cos now you just plug in the newest sensor and still keep your perfectly shaped mouse.
And the good thing for the seller would be that you can sell more stuff that doesn't cost much to produce to the kids who just can't get enough toys. :)

Obviously, Logitech/whomever wouldn't start out with all those features right away. Might just start with customisible button panels. or those foam shape thingies I mentioned.

The Habu and Razer Copperhead have already taken this step (button panels/custom coloured chasis).
I'm sure we will see a lot more of this in future releases.


- Better drivers from Logitech.

Being a long time user of mouse acceleration, it has always bothered me to no end that Logitech drivers only have the "Low, Medium, High" settings in the driver.
Why not? 1-10? Why not 1-100?
It's not hard to do.
In fact, a guy in this very forum has hacked the SetPoint drivers so that you can use any incremental value you desire to use.

Logitech drivers should allow any incremental of mouse acceleration. If not, then at least give us something like from 1 to 100. Should be easy to do for the driver coders.

People who have played Quake for years, find it frustrating that they cannot use any acceleration value they want to anymore in other games. (Quake lets you set any value you want).
Why not let all Logitech users use any acceleration they want to - in any game?
This should sell some extra units @ Logitech for sure.
Logitech's acceleration is exatly the correct type ( smooth curve, like the one in Quake).
The 'bad' one is the one you find in Windows XP's own 'pointer enhancement'. Which is treshold-based acceleration; ie. garbage.
This is the same crappy acceleration that Razer drivers use. Absolutely useless if you ask me (and anyone has has played Quake)


That's it for me for now.
I'm very pleased Logitech seems to be showing genuine interest in gamers (unlike that Creative guy that vanished into thin air suddenly)

And yes, if you are wondering, I *am* looking to become a freelance consultant on gaming mice for Logitech. :D

zomg how many let... lette...zomfglmao

I think you need to talk to a doctor about your obsession.

give us a picture of that mx518; it sounds interesting:)

Dont have cam atm. :/

Will work on it.

maek it happen!

The topic poster was prolly some kid goofing around and you make a post like this? :)

an impressive post, and also scary because i actually understood AND agreed on everything. ^_^

lets just sit back and hope logitech comes up with something good for us all.
i absolutely loved that idea about a fully customizable mouse shell.

I agree with this guy.

And this is me -> http://www.catchgamer.no/?module=users&f=...erId=19694

zOMG CATCHGAMERS!!!

too bad source is shiet.

Well, it's almost 2010 and most of McFly's whishes came true with the Logitech G9x, which has changable shapes. Maybe they did listen after all. Or maybe it was McFly himself who made that mouse with Logitech??!

1) Razer CopperHead, MS Explorer 2.0A in the past
2) 2000 cpi, 500Hz, 9cm/360, killed WinXp negative acceleration
3) Razer eXactMat, control side (less friction)
a) Low friction + very accurate on flicks with such a sense
4) Kinda fingertip grip with some hitscan weapons, but palm style when I'm in close battle
5) Movements: fast, short movements, high sens, flicking. No problems with that.
6) Very rarely. Got no issues with tracking when I lift the mouse a bit.
7) Found laser mice more comfortable for me to aim.

1) I use a WMO 1.1 now, used a Razer Diamondback before and I prefer the WMO because it's lightweight, even though it has a vastly inferior sensor.

2) 6/11 Windows sens, approximately 25-30cm/360 ingame, 500hz.

3) I use an Icemat v2
a) I like it because it's super consistant. It's low friction, and it's the same feeling all over the pad and it will never wear down.

4) It's a fingergrip style, but the sides of the base of my hand also grips the mouse.

5) I just move it as fast as I need to.

6) The thing I like about the WMO on the icemat is that it won't track if you take it off the pad the slightest bit, but it still tracks perfectly when all 4 feet are on the surface.

7) I'd prefer whatever had a higher negative acceleration threshold and less skipping.

8) While 2000dpi may be needed to sell the mice, there needs to be an option to turn it down to 400dpi, as a lot of games have trouble with huge mouse inputs. Also, lightweight is a must. The WMO weighs approximately 80 grams and it allows you to move the mouse quickly and precisely to line up that clutch shot before you miss your chance to hit your target. Fast and responsive buttons (like those on the diamondback) are nice.

Hello.

1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

I am currently using Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical. I have been using Razer Diamondback, Logitech MX510 and Logitech MX310 in the past.


2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.

I am currently using Windows XP with its default drivers. I have a sensitivity of 6/11 (10 in registry hive) and no artificial cursor acceleration.
The mouse has ~ 400 DPI and is running at 1000 Hz. I am using the default button assignment.


3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.

I am currently using a cheap cloth mousepad (~ 2 EURO) - nothing special.
I prefer cloth surface because of its low friction and - more importantly - smoothness.
Bigger (but not too big) pads would be better, though.


4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?

I am holding it only with my fingers (fingertip grip).


5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.

I play with a low sensitivity, so I have to move the mouse very fast in some situations. But these are usually only short movements.
I both flick and skate - whatever suits the situation best.
A mouse which is prone to skipping or "negative acceleration" is very disappointing.


6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?

I do not lift it very high when gaming. The mouse should stop tracking when lifted only a few millimetres.


7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?

I prefer optical sensors, because they are reliable and do not suffer from "childhood diseases" anymore.
Mouse devices powered by a laser sensor are not necessary and unreliable.
Laser mice are good with difficult surfaces, but no "gamer" has such mousepads.


8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?

Logitech should release precise tech specs (dimensions, weight, sensor model, etc.) with their mouse products
(Microsoft already does this for most of their products: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/documentation/default.aspx ).
Transparency creates trust, trustfulness makes loyal customers.

Logitech should keep its design short and simple without fancy bells and whistles.
We do not need adjustable DPI, removable weigths and 5+ mouse buttons.

Logitech should never rush unfinished technology to the market - Logitech should stand for reliability and confidence.
A sensor with a precision of 2000 DPI is practically useless when skipping or causing "negative acceleration".

Logitech should comfort every customer's needs.
Some prefer big, some tiny shapes. Some prefer "ergonomical", some symmetrical shapes. Some prefer heavy, some light weights...

Logitech should support the hobbyist/open-source communities.
Document your products, explain the firmware (if rewritable), etc...



Thanks for your interest.

If you have any further questions, you can contact me by e-mail: auto375640<AT>hush<DOT>ai

1) atm using mx518, but im gonna change back to new ie3.0. used old ms ball mices, old ie3.0 then switched to G5 which was a mistake. i also feel that mx518 has good tech and the shape is almost perfect for me but i feel mx518 abit too heavy so that's why ie3.0.

2) middle in windows, no accel, around 20cm/360 in game, 500hz.

3) switching between QPAD CT and QcK. I like the glide with Qpad but love the precision with QcK.

4) palm style.

5) using semi-low sens and mostly tracking when aiming, not so much flicking. i used to flick alot old Q2 days but nowadays that has dropped out.

6) 1cm, no problemos.

7) i prefer optical, the G5 had some serious skipping when i had it. no lasers for me unless you do some major upgrading.

8)
- i would like to have G1 with sidebutton(s).
-mx400 with mx518 guts on it.

1)
At the moment I'm using a Razer DimondBack. In the past I've used a M$ WMO1.1, M$ Serial mouse, Office1 PS2 ball mouse, generic optical mouse (can’t read the brands label), M$ Inteli Explorer 1.1, 3.0 and 4.0, that basic Logitech mouse you guys make, and the MX400/510/1000

2)
I turn off "enhance pointer precision in the windows mouse settings, sensitivity in Razer is set to 10. In game (quake3/4) I use m_yaw 0.017, and m_pitch 0.016, with sensitivity at 0.8. With these settings I get about 46cm for a 360* turn
3)
Razer Mantis Control, I prefer the control surface over the speed, as it gives me greter control over my mouse.
a)
It was cheep, as big as I needed, and I LOVE the feel of it.

4)
I prefer to finger grip my mouse, that’s with my ring and pinky finger on the side of the mouse (not just the pinky like your retarded alien shape MX5##/G5 mouses try to force). When I used the MX400, I actually liked that shape, it allowed me to finger tip control in game, but palm it for normal desktop use.

5)
I move my mouse very fast due to my low(ish) sensitivity, and all over the mousepad.

6)
I don't really lift my mouse that high, maybe 1cm, MABY 2, not that high really, I want to get it back onto my pad as quickly as possible.

7)
When I used the MX400 / MX1000, I liked how the lasers FELT, they seemed smoother than optical (this could have just been placebo), but, for god sakes, if you really want us to use laser, at least make them so they can track at high speeds!

8)
As everyone is saying, we want LITE mouses, but, I know that probably wont go good for you, allot of those dickhead reviewers on the net, who you rely on, normally bag light mice due to them feeling 'cheep', so if you can build a light mouse that doesn't feel cheep, that would be a really big [+].

Also, you could read all this, what people are writing about their current mouses, or you could re-release the Wingman, with an optical sensor, its as simple as that, can't u see its what the majority of us want?

the absolute BEST thing you can do is to use tried and tested technology that we know works fine (400dpi optical) and put that technology in a variety of shapes, like 5+ different shapes.

for example this new line of mice could be called x1, x2, x3 etc.

they would all use the same tech, so that everyone gets to use a reliably performing mouse, the only difference between each mouse would be the shape, so that people could pick the shape they ACTUALLY LIKE.

if you want every gamer in the world to use logitech, that is the way to go. you have to cater to all tastes instead of giving us one option.

I must emphazize that once you have tech that works, SHAPE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN A GAMING MOUSE. 2 billion DPI and on the fly gimmick rubbish is not needed. the reason a lot of the best gamers in the world use older mice is a combination of 2 things, both of which are key to having a great aim. 1) they're used to the shape, and 2) because they perform flawlessly - at 'only' 400dpi.

to have a great aim, all natural skill aside, you need to use the same mouse and surface combination for a long time. after a while your movements/shots become subconcious because youve made the movements so many times before - your brain just knows how far, and where, to move the mouse without you even thinking about it.

the problem is, everyone is different. we all want reliable performance, but we all have different opinions when it comes to comfort. so give us the reliable performance we desire in a choice of shapes that will suit almost everyone.

that said, i'd be happy with the following specs:

400dpi - plenty as proven by the legendary ms wheel mouse optical 1.1a

500hz usb plug n play - i use the default 125hz and have no issues with my aim, but everyone seems to love 500hz so why not

2 main buttons and a wheel - standard really

mouse feet - this is an area i see as the only part of a mouse that isnt consistent, at least on hard pads. mouse feet wearing down changes the feel of a mouse, if logitech could invent some sort of feet that slide smoothly but dont wear down or change in consistency that would be great.... maybe in 2080 hehe. at a minimum though teflon feet like on the g5 is necessary.

the mouse also needs to work at full spec without drivers. i personally refuse to use mouse drivers.

oh and make sure the mouse doesnt track too far off the surface... SO annoying for players who pickup/putdown their mice a lot. most mouse DONT do this, but the g1 did for me which rendered it useless.

basically just use the ms wheel mouse optical 1.1a as a reference for flawless tech ;p

anyway i might edit/add more ramblings later.

eh? include some spyware into mousedrivers, this way you don't have to ask

Driver issues put me off logi for life.

What kind of issues?
I've bene using Logi drivers for 10 years, I've never had any problems so far.

Well for the first 2 years i played quake i used a certain mouse setup with some registry fixes to remove neg accel or whatever. Then one day windows crashed and when i reinstalled i could never get the same mouse feel again because I didnt have the original tweaks.

Now I use ms mouse all I have to do is plug it into any computer and it feels the same, no drivers to worry about.

I'm having a hard time linking said problem with Logitech's drivers.
However, I agree with your statement regarding Microsoft mice. Long live simplicity.

The problem probably wasn't in the Logitech drivers, I would imagine.

More likely that you forgot which settings you were using b4 your crash.

I've gotten used to remember all my settings in the Logi driver. Gives me the same feeling on every clean format - and even new PC/motherboard.

yeah maybe i was being too clever with my original tweaks :(

Same here...buttons unbinding in q3...had to fix the registry to use mouse properly (hello?)...terrible drivers...shall I go on?

G5 needs a firmware update to make it compatible with more clothpads..right now the mouse is skipping on my dearly beloved clothpad... (3 euro fellowspad)

fix fix..hurry hurry =) thnx

1) at the moment im using a logitech G5, i have had a microsoft intellimouse 3.0 and a logitech MX-510

2) windows sens = mid. 1400Dpi, windows accel disabled

3) Steelpad QcK+. i bought this because i live in NZ, and it was a cheap, good pad.

4) palm styles

5) i am a low sens UT player (cant be bothered measuring settings, but with my mouse settings i use 0.67 ingame UT2k4 sens. This requires a lot of fast mouse movements when playing DM or TDM. One issue i have noticed with the G5 is whenever i move it "too" fast i end up looking at the floor or the ceiling. I dont consider the movements i have to make to be too fast but with the G5 it can skip on me.

6) like 2cm off the mouse pad, no issues with mouse lag or anything ever

7) dont care :)

8) Sort out the skipping issues for low sens players then i love you long time.



how much does a G5 or a copperhead cost for people from different parts of the globe? my G5 cost me $130NZD, and to buy a copperhead its $160NZD. a G7 costs approx $180-190NZD

As per your inquiry I've looked them up for you.
Taken from the Alternate store (biggest computer store in the Rotterdam region)
Razer Copperhead: € 69,- (equals to 130.639 NZD)
Logitech G5: € 65,- (equals to 123.066 NZD)
Logitech G7: € 85,- (equals to 160.932 NZD)

Hope to have been of assistence.

alternate zijn ook de grootste oplichters, komen niet voor niets uit duitsland

Aye, though als je zelf weet wat je koopt zijn ze vaak goedkoop. Komplett.nl is altijd wel beter en goedkoper tho.

beter als je hardware koopt kijk je bij www.tweakers.net/pricewatch .
daar kijk ik ook altijd, vet relaxed man, meteen goedkoopste leverancier vinden, en direct bestellen :)

Aye, maar niet handig als je veel onderdelen wilt bestellen. Dan ben ik al mn winst kwijt aan leveringskosten ;]

Overigens is de pricewatch niet altijd even accuraat. Ik had de grootste moeite met het vinden van een Cherry Keyboard !

MICROSOFT 3.0 IS BACK BIIAAATCH!!!!!!111

HELLO NEGATIVE ACCEL

Please do point out which mouse has no negative accel.
Thanks in advance.

You are right, of course.

But there's still a very big difference between M$ <insert any model> up to razer opticals and MX518.

3.0 >>> ALL!!!!!!!!11

Yep, indeed. The 3.0 really does have more negative acceleration than nearly all other gaming mice.

I must say I find the 3.0 more pleasant than my Diamondback or MX510. And it was cheaper on the boot. Since I use a mere 22cm/360deg in ut2k4, I'm not noticeably effected by negative acceleration. Shape is more important to me than the negative acceleration, that said; I'm looking forward to Logitech's new line.

Which reminds me. What was so bad about the IE 4.0? I read here and there that it wasn't suited for gaming, but why?

The IE 4.0 had a really, really bad tracking. The sensor couldn't follow any medium-speeded long movements. It was totally not suited for gaming - great shape, tho.

Ah yeah, and it had a 100 hz lock.

Pfff what a bummer. The shape looks very pleasing ;[

MAYBE!! BUT IT'S STILL THE BEST!!!!!!!!111

MS 3.0 is the best.

1) i used an mx300 since 2002, but recently my second one of them broke down and havent been able to get a new one. never used any other mice because was perfectly satisfied with mx300.

atm im using some shitty microsoft mouse, and for that am unable to play FPS games properly. -> playing WoW.

2) when i had my mx300 working, i used default windows xp drivers, sensitivity in the windows 2 notches left from the middle. USB @ 500hz, all acceleration disabled.

3) im using an Ulti-Mat Breathe x4. a 55cm x 45cm very thin cloth pad.
http://reddbull.patricklandolt.com/mew/public/gear/ulti-mat3.jpg
http://reddbull.patricklandolt.com/mew/public/gear/ulti-mat2.jpg

a) i prefer this mostly because of its size, but im also extremely satisfied with its surface. it has that passive friction a good cloth surface has, without that 'start-off sticking' that you get on bad surfaces.

4) only the tips of my fingers touch the mouse, my palm never. thumb on the left side way on the bottom, actually touching the mousepad most of the time. ring- and little finger on the right side also both touching the mousepad. i press the button on the top of mx300 with the middle part of my index finger, and have gotten extremely comfortable doing so. use it for the most important weapons in all games.

also, i constantly lift the mouse a bit. not as in i hold it in the air, but i dont press on it at all. i find the mouse glides a lot better this way.

5) i use a very low sensitivity, i turn one full circle (360°) when i move my mouse across my whole mousepad (55cm).
http://spidermew.moo.no/mew_playing_06.avi

i never got any failures on my mx300's, but i cant say that about any other mice. G1 is the one that comes closest. i've tried almost every single mxXXX mouse i've got my hands on. only ones i havent tried are the laser versions of the 'ergonomic' ones. to my surprise, most of them couldnt even achieve full 500hz from the USB. O_o, and as you can probably guess, they had some nasty negative accel on my fastest moves.

the latest and greatest disappointment was with G3. i got it, extremely stoked about its "max speed of 54+ inches/second", and after extensive testing on all dpi and sensitivity settings was devastated. IT SKIPPED! as in on my fastest moves i ended up looking straight up or something like that. so... i returned it to the store, and have been unable to properly play FPS games since.

6) 1cm max. on a dark cloth pad its not an issue. but with EVERGLIDE giganta optical smoke the mice tracked it even at like 1-2 cm in the air.

7) mx300 is the perfect mouse for me, so optical for the win. too bad i cant get my hands on any mx300's anymore.

8)
- is it true that the laser sensor needs a special surface to track the fastest moves?
- make the drivers have a numeric value for the sensitivity and acceleration with floating values.
- give me an mx300, or fix G3 so it tracks my moves. ^_^

holy scmidt that's low sens...

wow funny vid u got there jezus :)

why not G1? you said it was the one that came closest....
you can still buy em from www.pixmania.com afaik

close still isnt there. it had very noticeable negative accel on my fastest swings. i dont do compromises when it comes to such things.

It has that negative acceleration because Logitech were retarded and made it work at 800dpi by default instead of 400dpi like on the MX300. There's an internal limit to how many pixels/s that sensor and microcontroller can handle and 800 exceeds it's limit easily!

well arent you early. :D these things are all known, no worries. i used an mx300 for ages cos my sensi was so low. now im higher (@ 540°/55cm), so im using a G3 and am perfectly happy with it.

Yeah, I was all sad when I got the Razer DeathAdder because I loved the shape, but it turned out I moved it so quick it'd skip out! (going to try a different pad someday though)

Using the same MX500/MX510 I have used for last 4 years basically.

Mouse makers really don't get it.

Deathadder really should keep up, you should check your drivers and settings and stuff. im sure im not up to date, but there was a problem with it in the beginning that if you didnt use the highest DPI, it would skip easily.

but it IS the fastest mouse out there atm if it is configured correctly.

On my mousepad which is basically a QcK+ type black cloth it definitely has erroneous tracking. 4-5 other users on Razer Blue Prints can also make their DeathAdder skip out like I do with a low sens on a black cloth pad like me.

It's even worse at the lower dpi settings, i've got all the updates and drivers. Tech support and I couldn't work out any solution. My MX500 skips less in games with the movements I make. The DA just is finicky about this black cloth surface is what I think.

A couple users reported better tracking (no skipping when they had skipping before) on the Everglide Titan so I ordered the light colored Fnatic version hoping the liftoff is lower or about the same as this pad because of the colors.

The DeathAdder has got more of a problem with sudden violent movements, if I just move it fast at a constant speed, like sujoy's test it performs much better and it's hard to skip it. But if you whip it in a fast slash to instantly turn around for example it goes to hell. The MX500 doesn't seem to be affected the same way. (and when it skips it usually just stops turning rather than DA always flips to the ground which is far worse.)

uh huh, thats too bad. yea trying a lighter pad is probably a good idea. yea, i never could get my mx300 to skip on my black cloth pad (Ulti-Mat Breathe x4). G3 skips easily, but its laser. ^_^

anyways, hope the new pad works better. cheers.

Apart from the opticals... whatever you do, don't make the scrollwheel unusable (impossible to press) and don't remove any side buttons (keep it at 2 at least) like on the g5.
k thx

Everything from Trust.

1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

1. I use my laptop's touchpad. Manufactured by Dell v1.0.

2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.

2. 3cm = 360 degree rotation

3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.
a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?

3. My touchpad IS the surface!

4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?

4. I carefully put my finger on it

5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.

5. I carefully move my finger around over the touchpad

6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?

6. I can't raise the touchpad because it is stuck to the laptop. But I tried raising the entire laptop with one hand and I could raise it for about 2 cm.

7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?

7. I prefer whatever technology is being used in my touchpad

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?

8. My real nickname is fatal1ty, but I have been keeping a low profile. Don't quote me on this, though.

Thanks

[-]

I don't think anybody will be amused someone six six six

thanks.

Shame on dumb users. :/

EXACTLY!
Shame on dumb users! ;)

shame on you.

No no no.. don't change your opinion now...
Still... Shame on dumb people (whoever these dumb people are)

lolz

ur puttin shame on q3 logo near your nick :(

rofl

Why hasn't this happened yet?

MX400 laser is the same shape, but no rubber(gum?) on both sides.. Have one. Office mouse, nothing to say.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

Look at #99 :) Anyway just try it yourself ;)

Yes, #99 says that the MX400 has a similar shape. I want the exact same one, though.

shity sensor in it though. its a office mouse.

photoshop!

Nicely done, isn't it? :)

MX400 has a similar shape. Btw I have that logitech wheel mouse (but mine has chameleon paint on purple and silvergrey).

Edit: I added a picture of it. It's hard to see the chameleon paint on the picture, but it's purple. Funny thing is that the paint itself (without workmanship) costs many times more than the mouse. Btw. I removed the cord sometime ago, as I never play with ballmice anymore.

The Pilot, MX300, G1, G3 is the perfect shaped mouse for both right/left hand users. Just keep packing the latest technology into those !

exactly 100% !

I disagree.

i disagree with the latest technology part, put the mx300 sensor into the g3 ffs ! :/

Ok mr Logimgr, as you can see Mcfly is mental, but he knows his stuff without a doubt. I would recommend you just stuff the mx518 sensor in ALL your mice!

with 500hz default

into the wingman and the mouse in #24's comment (8).

That and keep the ability to turn the dpi down to 400. 400dpi forever!

Well I sure would be happy if all the requests in this line of replies were used :D

It'd be one hell of a mouse. I wasn't ever really crazy about the wingman though, but I wouldn't mind giving it another shot. They should incorporate all this stuff into the original pilot shape as well.

1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

Logiteech MX518. I got used to everything about it. The shape, weight, the mouse feet etc. I used to use the Microsoft 3.0, but broke it and decided to try something new. I ended up trying it again recently but returned it as I don't want to take the time to get used to a new mouse again. I'm pretty picky. Before that were all Microsoft ball mouses. One thing though is that the MX518, the cheap cord caused my mouse to stop working at random times for only a split second, which is very bad when it comes to gaming. But Logitech replaced it. I tried the G5 because I noticed the improvement in cord, but the laser skips.


2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.

I use middle windows sensitivity, which I believe is default. My sensitivity in Quake 4 is 1.7. Left button = Shoot, Right Button = Weapon Special, Mouse Wheel Button = Machine Gun, Mouse4 = Nail Gun, Mouse 5 = Laser Gun. I use 800 DPI as it felt the best.


3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.
a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?

I use the Razer Mantis Speed (Everglide Titan has the exact same surface). I use it because it gives me the perfect amount of friction, not too much or too little. I use the default mouse skates that come with the MX518 because I tried hyperglides/steelglidez and it just made my mouse wayy too frictionless. The Supermat has too much friction, QcK+ is too thin imo and I did actually use that for a while as I put it on top of a supermat for more cushion. But it wore down real fast in a matter of months. The QcK Heavy just has too much cushion, and I realized the QcK in general is giving me too much friction and is too inconsistent. I tried an Icemat which is a very very smooth pad, but being a cloth user all my life, all my small little movements were thrown way off because it's near frictionless.


4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?
the MX518 is pretty much always going to be palming it. I use mostly my wrist to move and sometimes a little forearm movement.


5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.

I have a low sensitivity. I tend to flick my rail shots and my rockets. When it comes to otehr guns like laser gun i have to move it side to side in a controlled movement. This movement only failed when I used the G5. I'm not sure if it was skipping, but when I moved it too fast it just didn't feel right, as if the movement was off. The whole feel of the Laser just doesn't feel accurate to me. If you're going to make a new gaming mouse, stick with Optical. I don't see the big deal of the Laser, if Optical works and is near flawless, just stick with it. The Optical sensor for the MX518 is perfect, you can't skip it no matter how hard you try.

gtg can't finish

1) Logitech G5 (In the past I've tried: Logitech G1 (shape didn't suit me), Razer DiamondBack (shape was horrible for my hand), Logitech MX510 (which I still use for my laptop, great mouse), Logitech Dual Optical (my first decent mouse, loved the shape ever since)

2) 2000DPI, 500Hz, no mouse accel, lowest sens in windows, speed and sens implemented by SetPoint, no game settings.

3) Steelpad QcK+ (large cloth pad)
a) Because it's easy on my wrist, being cloth, it got less friction than most pads I've tried, easy to clean, and doesn't wear our the feet on the mouse. tracks fine, no skipping etc, but mainly for the comfort and stability it provides (compared to plastic/glass surfaces)

4) Mainly palming, but sometimes I might fingertip, just to stretch out my fingers now and then

5) usually a bit fast movement with a mid sens (30cm/360degrees). I do flick a lot with my mouse when aiming and do very long and slow moves when I have a traceweapon (like minigun, shaft etc). The fast movement have caused my G5 to skip in a QPAD CT Black, which eventually made me hand back that pad the next day and go back to my beloved QcK+

6) around 5mm I think. Never had any problems with tracking when I lift the mous, only problem is when I place it down is that I sometimes left it go down with the first side first and it kinda have one side down and another in the air, and when that falls down also it tracks = very fast movement to left/right which can be annoying, would require shorter read distance, which I think would cause other problems such as a laser that got problems reading on many surfaces.
It does not differ depending on mouse/surface

7) Havn't noticed a difference, my G5 and MX510 feels the same, ofcouse the G5 is more reponsive, but that's mainly because of the 500hz usb. So whatever technology that can give most precise tracking is the one I like.

8) I do mod my mouse, always, because they're not exactly how I want them, actually why I tried a G1.
Logitech mice have always been rather "heavy" compared to MS and razer (good and bad), good thing is they feel robust, like you can't destroy them, and it's true, they really last, keep on making mice that last. Bad thing is the mouse feels heavy, should be more light. I always remove the weights, but it's not enough, should be below 100g atleast, in the MX510 I drilled holes and removed the taskswitch button. On my G5 I opened the mouse and took out the whole weight system, and removed the dpi leds, result is my mouse is now 98g instead of 125g or so.

Another thing is the buttons, they're so unreponsive it's terrible. I always stick some paper inbetween the sensors and the actual buttons, to make the respond faster (a thing that razer have really understood to do well), same goes for scroll clicks (button3). And, the G5 had a scroll that was a big too high imo, I liked the mx510 more where it was just the top of the scroll sticking out of the mouse instead of almost a 3rd of the wheel. (and make the scroll roll really easy, nothing worse than scrolling some document/webpage and have to actually put force into your fingers, should just roll asap you start trying to)

A suggestion I got for your software would be to implement "profiles", that saves ALL settings set in the logitech controlpanel, would be handy for ppl going to lan e.g or when you do format c: or the mousesoftware just decides to reset all your settings (yes, happens for me in the newest SetPoint 1-2 times a month)

My conclusion is Logitech make the best mice for me, the shape is unbeatable, but there's a few small things I'd like to see changed.

Just find out what shape people are missing and stick the mx518 sensor into it ^_^

1)
logi trackball (bad idea) ->
logi mouseman (GREAT mouse, switch to optical bc cleaning sucks) ->
logi dual (ok'ish, sensor postion bad, rubber stuff sucked) ->
mx 318 (great shape but mousewheel became buggy) ->
mx 318 (still have one backup)

2)
MWare 9.79.025, middle notch, no accel, mwadvanced tool: tracking: speed, USB
Buttons: middle button = middle button, left+right extra button = pgup/pgdown, rest default

3)
cheap cloth, playing very hi-sens so i need friction for control
other reasons: sucks up sweat, never tracking problems, doesnt wear out mousefeet, low height, cheap, feels much nicer than plastic/glass/steel

4)
Fingertip grip

5)
very hi sens (~1.8cm/180°) arm doesnt move, wrist does everything, very fast movments (like 180°'s)
all flick shot with wrist, fine aiming with fingertips.


6)
0.5-0.7cm, no problems with mx318

7) never used laser

8)
- it would be nice to be able to export ALL mouse settings (for reinstalling / tournaments)
- xp accel issues, we need the ultimate fix!

Extraordinary. I never hear of such a high sens player. Remarkable.

I have before, but only in qw. And when I think back to those guys, I find it laughable now.

Why? If they can play well with such a style it's applaudable.

I tried playing like it myself, it works in the kind of old school quake style that was very much centred on rockets, but tracking is rather useless. Then again I still play about 10cm/360, what the guy above suggested is 3.6cm/360. It's playable, but it would be impossible to get the preciseness that you need, atleast when it comes to high skill games.

I wonder what the technical limit is. Because all I can think of is that such small movements are very hard for a human to pull off.

I guess it does depend on the person, I started on about 5cm/360 with accel (crazy). I can draw very well so I am good at controlling small movements with my hand/wrist. Even with that I eventually came down and down to improve my aim, I think I landed up with 30cm/360 and then started increasing it again, when I couldn't move anymore and turn fast enough.

If we look at the top players with high sens, well the highest sens that I know of, would be, probably polos or ZeRo4. And ZeRo4 you can already see it's the upper level technically, you can see that his lg struggles a little.

i'm playing guitar since ages, i guess that helps a lot considering precision.
of course it's still trading of some (long range) lg/mg % against movment/oversight + rockets/sg/.. % but in tdm or promode it works pretty well.

and btw it's all PELE's fault :D

Heh 100 turns around in 50cm. Some ppl uses almost 50cm for 360 :))

1) I currently use a IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0 (old version). I have used almost everything that has hit the market in the past six or seven years, including Logitech Pilot mice, a pair of shitty Boomslangs 2000 and 2100, Microsoft Blue, MX300, MX500, MX510, MX518, Diamondback, Copperhead, G5 and some of the Microsoft ones (4.0, 6000, etc). Of all those the only ones I have really liked and used are the 3.0 and the MX5xx series, although for gaming my preference has always been the 3.0. The MX5xx series is good for desktop and work things though.

2) 500Hz, default windows sens, no accel (unchecking precission, I don't use the mousefix). In games I range from

3) I currently use a QcK+ heavy.
a) Size, smooth movement and low friction, apart from it being washable, are the reasons. I really like the Icemat, but it collects too much dirt and is not big enough.

4) I palm it. That's one of my concerns with the MX5xx series, it has a problem for people with big hands like me, we have to fingertip it.

5) Fast, big movements (but not too big). I use low sens (about 28cm/360ş in VQ3/Q4, less in RtCW/ET/DoD and even less in CS)

6) Depends' but sometimes I end my big movements lifting int a bit, and somehow I control when does the mouse stop tracking. Laser mice had this problem for me where they would stop too soon.

7) Optical, I can't see any advantage for laser mice over a good sensor like the MX518 one. It feels better, specially for low sens, I can't notice those extra 400dpi, it works on more surfaces and it's just perfect.

8) Copy Microsoft shapes, reduce weights, use the MX518 sensor and start thinking about us big handeds :P

1) Logitech G1.
Have used: MS3.0(ages ago), Logitech optical (same shape as G1), Razer Diamondback, Tried a MX510. The Diamondback eventually broke and I never liked the undercuts along the side of the mouse. Imho simple mouseshapes are the best because they give your more freedom to grip it how you want. I tried the MX510 and found it too bulky and the thumb groove forced me to grip it in a particular way that I didn't like. I went for the G1 because I always loved the shape of my old Logitech.

2) Sens is about 20cm/360, no accel, 500hz with windows patch.

3) Everglide Titan Monstermat.
a) I wanted something full-size and knew I could rely on cloth mousemats as I had had an Allsop before. I'd like to point out most gamer mousemats aren't available in high street shops (in the UK) so there is really no opportunity to try them out unless you have a big wallet. I'd love to try glass/steel/plastic but I can't afford to waste money on something I might not like.

4) Mix between fingertip/palm.

5) long movements, sometimes quite fast. Medium/Low sens.

6) Try to avoid lifting the mouse, hence huge mousemat. Only lift the mouse when I'm not engaged in an intense situation etc.

7) Never tried a laser mouse. See my point in 3a. DPI definately affects mousefeel but ultimately I don't think it makes much difference.

8) I think if Logitech could get wireless technology to the level where there really is no mouselag (and most gamers are very demanding here) it would be a huge selling point. Mouse cords are REALLY annoying, people have all kinds of cord-weights, mouse-bungees, taping to the monitor, etc to cope with this because they can't accept the downgrade in responsiveness. So somehow making a good wireless mouse that had a light battery in it would be ideal.
I also really like the material Razer uses for their mousebuttons. Shiney lacquered surfaces are not comfortable when you are sweating etc, and no part of the mouse should be like this imo.

The other thing would be a magnetic levitating mouse :> Same principle as bullet trains. Could be implemented in multiple ways.

1. LOGITECH WINGMAN GAMING MOUSE. since there's no optical version of it, i made one with ms intelli 3.0 optics instead of a ball, so it's very light.

2. sens: windows sens on default, sens 10 in q3, that's 20-22 cm/360° for me.
no ingame accel and win xp accel turned off with the cpl mouse fix.
500 hz, ms intellipoint drivers.
buttons: left=fire, middle=forward, right=secondaryfire or zoom.

this setup and the mouse shape are the reasons why i stuck with the wingman, modern mice have only 2 main buttons and are long and narrow compared to the WGM.

3. allsop raindrop (plain, fine cloth)

4. i hold the mouse with the fingertips.

5. i move the mouse flicking it with the wrist, with quick, fast movements.

6. i don't use to lift the mouse much when playing, about 1cm max.

7. i prefer optical mice because laser sensors don't track well on some surfaces, especially hard pads.

8. i mailed logitech several times suggesting to make an optical wingman mouse. the answer was something like "we'll take a look at it". this was about 4 years ago, and logitech has made many potato shaped mice with lots of small buttons since.

CONSISTENT TRACKING on any gaming surface and a COMFORTABLE SHAPE are more important than unnecessary high DPI numbers. build a wingman with a mx518 sensor and i'm happy with it. give it a wheel if you think it's necessary, but keep the classic shape and the THREE MAIN BUTTONS, not small side thingies you can't reach.

I have a mx500, mx510 and a mx100 (along with the black internet deluxe keyboard which AWESOME-O :)
but anyway

When I compare the mx500 and 510 to the laser the one thing that comes to mind is that eventhough the laser is more accurate it requires a better surface to work on. For example It doesnt track very well when mousing on our white cotton couch.

I have had to put keystroke: = for the middle program-switch button because i couldnt otherwise bind it in q3. The mx518 sucks my banger since it lacks a forward internet button (i really cant understand you lot left it out).

The icon on the mx500 and mx510 (with your logitech emblem on it) wears out way too quickly, might aswell not color it black anyway.

Anyway i am proud to say that i have yet to come across a mouse from logitech that stopped working :)

will logimgr reply?...

Like someone else said in the thread of the Creative guy:

"HE'S DEAD, JIM!"
:p

Might have been someone taking the piss on us after all.

Just who got the piss taken out of them? I think we've all had a f cking good discussion and got a lot off our chests.
:)

Well, yes.
But it would be a lot better if our feedback actually would reach Logitech - and have some sort of effect.

I only posted to make the troll seem legit. Everyone else is so pw0ned!!!

A mouse with little holes that air gets shot out so ur hands to get sweaty that would be nice. And it shouldnt run on batteries, could try solar power.

There is such a mouse already.
Has a little fan inside of it.

For tracking, it's useless.

solar power inside? gg

most people have their computer out of the sun.

i guess you can get my profile mixing mcfly and mew
mcfly my hero about mouses yes go get him a job in mouse stuff
mew with his vid that i use all the time to shut all the fake pretending low sens users mouth and show what i dream of!!!

1) razer db plasma and g1 . i ve tried all other "gamer's" mouses around and sent them all back after a few tests they couldn t pass
i m left handed that s why db and g1, else i would have had a mx518 also for specs, but the shap cannot allow a left handed guy to use it.
on tests i ve seen no differences between 518 and db and they are to me the 2 top mouses around when it comes to track and stand low sens

2) around 40cm@360 degres. i used 60cm@360 before when i began and could afford it cause i was playing very slowly but ever since i ve started to play a bit more seriously i can t afford being lazy on my moves and no mouse stands 60cm@360 without horrible neg accel, even with direct input ( so you can t give the screen resolution excuse to save the mouses )
rate 250 for g1 and 500 for razer db
400dpi for g1 (else neg accel shows up even direct input can t save this mouse)
400dpi or 1600dpi+direct input for razer db (else again neg accel come ruin my nolife dream)
screen reso 1024*768 85hz and most games at 125fps

3) icemat2
used cloth pads before, but now i got used to the icemat and the kinda not existing friction on it (shit point is the noise) , i d love a bigger pad, but i cant stand anything else. got a qpad ct large 1.5mm (cloth pad) i dont use and i ruined the good face of a func in 3 months (but func was great also)

4) fingertip grip, i palm it when i get owned( werd reaction), and for quick ficking.
i got big long hands so no mouse let me palm them nicely anyway so fingertip is THE choice.

5) uber low sens alterning quick flicks and slow tracking. as already said yes "this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment" neg accel all the way so i must rise my sens and i dont play like a would like to.

6) most of the time i lift it to max 5mm maybe once every 3 minute i ll lift it to 1cm when i go berserk. the last mouse i sent back because of that was the G3 who kept tracking while i was lifting.

7) the other reason i couldn t keep the G3 is that like any other laser mouse i ve tried ( razer does the same) neg accel arrives even sooner than on shit old cheap opticals.

8)
my very point here is that there are 2 big kinds of player high sens and low sens.
high sens guys now have what they dreamed of, high dpi mouses to get some max precision out of a very small movement. you ve been working all those years for them and them only.
about the low sens players ... well we are more than 10 around the world i can assure this, and we would be a lot more if only someone would make a mouse for us the day you ll admit that as a marketing fact, that very day you ll change the world of gaming mouses.
as mcfly said more and more peeps are going to low sens, it s a fact and when you know there is still no mouse feeting those low sens requirements, imagine what it would be with dedicated material.

when you guys will stop selling mouses for dpi and nothing else like others sell pc for ghz with 128mo ram and no graphic card as the best stuff ever, we ll make another step in the right direction

to finish i dream of a G3 shape with mx518 sensor. no more no less and i ll be happy for the rest of my life. (G3 cause i need those side buttons)

cute

[+]

and i dream of a G3 shape with the mx300 sensor (G3 because of the rubber material on the sides :x)

Clue on some rubber yourself.

I always glue leather on my mice. Works even better than rubber.

I bet you skin the animals yourself.

XDDD

Shape all Logitech mice like the IE 3.0 and you have a winner on your hands.

Not really.
I don't like the MS 3.0 shape much.

Just a personal opinion man. :D

Ye, but you said "ALL".

One model should be enough to satisfy you. :)

But you praise 4.0 ?

What's that got to do with anything?

it's the same shape -.-

not really. have both next to me (just put my hands back on the 4.0... *drool* awesome shape - heh, gonna try putting in the guts of my broken 3.0 the days).
the 4.0 is much more curved, wider, etc.

I tried frankenizing my M$ 4.0

Gave up - those buttons are impossible to keep in place.
Let me know if you somehow succeed, though!

Shape is far from behind the same.

3.0:
http://www.activewin.com/reviews/hardware/mic...plorer.gif

4.0:
http://www.bgslevi.cz/images_k/DDB6057.jpg

4.0 is soooo perfect for me.
Pitty M$ can't make proper sensors.

:\

After reading that I really regret having plussed you. ROT IN HELL!!!

ah fans.. have a plus :)

1) Logitech MX518. It's an awesome mouse btw. :)

2) Usually varies from game to game. For Q3, I use 2 sens @ 1600 dpi and for everything else, I use around 4 sens @ 400 (800?) dpi.

3) Razer Mantis Control

3a) Back when I bought it, I was using a low sensitivity and preferred some more space on my surface. Now, however, I'm looking to maybe try a hard surface like one of func's pads.

4) Two-fingered -- index on the LMB, middle on the RMB, thumb on the side buttons

5) That's a hard question to answer for me since I never really think about it. My mouse movement varies depending on the situation, I guess.

6) Can't really answer this question since I just do it without thinking about it.

7) I've only tried the G5 once out of all the laser mice out there, and it did track really smooth. But as far as what I've got right now, I only have my 518 and I don't have any reason to buy anything else right now. I guess, if I had to choose, I'd prefer laser mice since it doesn't emit light like an optical sensor does, but of course, it'd have to be of good quality in the first place.

8) Make a G5 with two thumb buttons and glossed paint (or whatever you guys did to the texture of the 518's paint) and I'll buy it the day it comes out!

Quoting your 8th point, that's something I'd very much be willing to buy :)

1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

I got a Logitech G1 with MouseWare & CPL mousefix. Tested too many mice to mention, but this one's the best (with mx300 and Wingman).

2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.

Sens is low-mid, only use mouse1 & mouse2 (fire & jump). Dunno about report rate, it's the one the mouseware gives me on default - never really gave a damn about that or dpi. Absolutely NO acceleration, I hate it!

3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.
a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?

I use an Ulti-Mat Breathe, which is basically the same as Steelpad Qck. It is an XL-sized thin clothpad. I have always preferred clothpads, but to be honest, Qpad's my favorite. I just like cloth :)

4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?

I palm it and squeeze it between my thumb and 4th finger (whatever it's called).

5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.

I move it using my wrist or my forearm (usually by flicking), depending on how much I need to move my mouse. I use a low-mid sens. No erratic behaviour on this one, the Razer Diamondback used to "fall" to the small flat area it has on it's sides quite often. Also, when I raised in the air it stopped responding unlike other mice I have used (and I hated that!).

6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?

I lift it very little to be honest. I lift it when I need to do big turns, like a 180-degree turn. Obviously it ruins your tracking, but I dont think anyone should aim and lift their mouse at the same time :).

7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?

Optical just because it's old and proved to be good, but im the guy who sticked to ballmice two years longer than other people because I didnt like optical technology at start (the first models were skipping).

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?

Bring back the old Wingman gaming mouse! It should sell pretty decent and it's probably the best small-sized mouse ever made.

Wingman bring the wingman back!

1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

Now: Razer DiamondBack Plasma
Before: mx510, mx500, mx300, pilot, wmo

2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.
Sensitivity of ~2.5 in razer drivers, left side button for alternate attack (i use it often, so it's very important for me). In-game sensitivity is about 90cm/360°


3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.
Razer Mantis Speed, but any decent large cloth pad will do.

a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?
Most important is the tracking performance and the feel of surface, then the size. Don't really care about aesthetics, so brown spots on pink background would be ok.

4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?
fingertip for Y axis, palm for X axis :D

5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming
Of course, fast movements! The faster, the better. Had tracking issues with every logitech mice, i've tried (see above). Usually there were problems with long movements.

6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?
About an inch or so. No. No.


7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?
Never tried a laser mouse. Numerous reviews on laser mice made me stick to optical mice.

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?
Yes, just one thing. Do the 'McFly' test on hundreds of surfaces for upcoming gaming mice if any...

Wow, this community's response has been incredible. Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed feedback. I can tell you that our engineering team has been following the dialogue voraciously and filling my inbox with emails about it (they are especially taken with McFly ;-). To be honest, I myself have been on vacation so it'll take me a bit to digest all this now that I'm back. Once I do, I'll post a reply that will hopefully address some of the biggest issues and questions you've identified for Logitech. Check back later for more...

Thanks again, Logimgr

Just make a new post instead.

I myself have been on vacation so it'll take me a bit to digest all this now that I'm back.

Let me sum it up for you,

1. Most players like Logitech optical sensors but dislike the MX500 shape - hence they use well shaped MS mice

2. Most players do not care about high DPI - Because it's useless to anyone using a mid/low in-game sensitivity - they prefer 400DPI

3. LASER MICE DON'T WORK - they skip at fast movement - this includes g5 and g3


Your goal is actually quite simple. Put together a mouse that has a solid optical sensor and the most preferred shape. So,

Wingman or MX300 shape + MX518 sensor = WINNER

Hope this helps.

True in every single word.

I like the mx518 shape, best mouse feeling I ever had.

By the way, this guy registered with a logitech email address and appears to be the real deal.

Yes, I am the "real deal." I work in product marketing for Logitech's mice dept. And I'm actually a female so I have to smile when posters refer to me as a "guy." :-)

Cool - welcome back. :)

Glad that you turned out to be genuine.

Indeed, it's good to see a company such as Logitech taking a genuine interest in feedback from some demanding users. I hope the information we provided you with will be useful.

well then this is really great! seeing logitech looking for our feedback!
now you`re "officialy identified" I will make my post too (another day)

Without real name.

a/s/l?

+

Here's my input, since McFly already covered everything. :-D

1. Change the hand design. Stop reusing the same old design that has run its course. It’s time to change.
2. Incorporate accelerated scrolling into your drivers. It’s an important feature that we can’t live without these days.
3. Work on the scroll wheel. It shouldn’t take so much force to get the middle click.
4. ADD THE FORWARD BUTTON BACK TO THE MOUSE!!! It’s important!!!

I'm sure its said allready but why arent there left handed mouse!? Im a lefty and use a mx518 Oo imagine that! ;)

i'll make a real answer to those questions and i'll also tell you why mx500/510/518 shape is nice but not ergonomic.
anyway, until i'll came back to answer all questions I guess there is a perfect ideea to make a mouse with 3 buttons on top of the mouse, instead of 2 buttons, just like old ball mouse A4tech Winbest 4D+, 4 buttons, 2 scrolls, 520 dpi, product number WW111. Most side buttons needers use mouse3 or mouse4 or mouse5 for some functions like defuse, team messages, or for some omportant tasks like jump, +attack2.

Romania

Had both the mx510 and mx518, both great mice for a low sens player like myself, but it took 7 mice in total before i got long (more that a month) lasting ones. So i ask you, what ever mouse shape you develop around the mx518 sensor, please sort the poxy microswithes while your at it.

1) Currently MS 3.0 (old version from approx 2001, not the new one).
Previously Logitech Pilot (the really old one with the nice flat shape picture
I would have kept on using my beloved Logitech Pilot, but the ps2 rate and ball, just couldn't keep up with usb-rate and optical.

2) Sensitivity 14 in regedit.
Pretty standard button assignments (using program specific buttons for quake3 since it does not support mouse4-5).
500hz usb

3) Steelpad S&S.
For gliding and traction.

4) Fingertip grip.

5) Typically I keep my wrist on the pad, flicking the mouse with the fingertips. I think most failures happens with low sens players and my sens seems to be high enough so ms 3.0 never skips.

6) I don't lift my mouse that high from the pad. Never had problems.

7) I have only tried optical mice so I have no frame of reference towards laser. I'll probably prefer whatever is most precise and responds the fastest.

8) The shape of most mice released in recent years have a way too high arc over the back which is not ideal for fingertip grip. I think a shape like the classic three-button logitech would be very well recieved.

Also, I think a small, lean gui for the mouse settings would be better than a big bulky program, for gamers.

so here comes what I promised:
(i'm the anonimous user, registered now)
***************************************
1)
I used until now:
- A4tech Winbest 4D - decided to increase sensitivity - was imposible with ball mouse + my a4tech feets

finished.
- Logitech MX500 - used it until mouse feet finished
- Logitech MX518 - used it until mouse feet finished
- Intelli Explorer 3.0 - used it some time, loved the shape, but it had some tracking problems.
- Razer Copperhead - it skips, couldn't use it.
- Back to a new Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 - old model but brand new, searched alot for it.

***************************************
2)
- i'm using no accel at all. with intelli explorer 3.0 i leave the mouse speed standard, ingame sensitivity 1.9 (about 35 cm for 180 degrees).
- i use anir's fix at home and at lans cpl_fix for noaccel.
***************************************
3)
- i've testet Func 1030, Func F10, Steelpad 4D, 4S, S&S, 5L, QCK, Razer Exactmat, Razer Mantis Spedd & Control.
- at the moment I have Steelpad S&S that I use with my IE 3.0. I have also a Steelpad 5L wich I bought for my Copperhead, but I'm still keeping it for HABU - wich I found out that it skips :(

- I like Steelpad S&S because the mouse glides perfectly, even if I like more the size of 5L.
- 5L feels much more nice to the hand then S&S but the friction is too big for me, not to mention QCK wich is like glue to the mouse.
The perfect mousepad for me is a pad with S&S surface, maybe a little softer, size of a 5L.(it would be nice to be a little bigger - especially for front back mouse movements. the sensitivity that i use with it's size, makes it imposible tyo look straight up in games because pads are all too small)
***************************************
4) and 5)
this depends on what game do you play.
there should be mice created for a specific game.
let me give you some examples.
1. for counter strike - most users have low sensitivity. they need a mouse that they can feel comfortable with his palm, light so that can be easy lifted into air,( low sensitivity needs this) to have a correct shape so that you can aim at the head (i mean the left and the right of the mouse should be big enaugh so that you can feel them and easily move them left-right with maximum responsiveness), the buttons 3, 4 ,5 should be well placed right near the usual position so that you can feel them close to your fingers when you don't use them, also to be placed so that mouse can still be used in the same limit of left-right responsiveness when you are actualy using the thumb buttons.
the left-right responsiveness of the shape and also the fact that users have to be able tou finger tip the pad is needeed so that you can easily stop the mouse on someone after a long and fast movement.
the mouse needs to be palmed so that when you move fast to be able to keep a correct direction, must be left-right responsiv so that you can start and end the fast movement. also you need to use fingers to easy touch the pad, so that stopping the movement to become easier.

2. quake players - usually they are high sensitivity players. they need the best palm mouse movement, they don't need fingertipping the pad, because they usually move the mouse over the enemy, shoting at high moving speeds, turning around al over the map. they don't need to stop the mouse on any enemy only with some weapons.

3. other games....

doesn't matter all other games, because if you make a mouse suitable for counter strike it will match all other games. palming the mouse means the following. easily find a comfortable position without touching the pad, but also the mouse has to let user use his fingers touching the pad if he needs to.

***************************************
6) any low sensitivity needs to lift the mouse, and this is depending on the mouse.
a problem with the a4tech optical mouse is that no matter how accurate it tracks, when i lift the mouse it still tracks, making me to look around and modifing the looking angle, wich can be verry annoying.
mx518 was great, mx500 was great, G7 tested at a friend of mine, but a little was too high.
also, IE3 is great in this problem.
***************************************
7) i prefer anything that tracks correctly, no mather if it's laser or optical.
mx518 has a good movement (not perfect but better than any other - only mouse that tracks better is A4Tech X718 - maybe the fact that the HZ of the mouse are fixed is making it so correct, even if it's better with higher hertz).
laser gets the surface, while optical gets only a vague shape or the surface wich helps optical to don't detect any hair or dust accidently remained on the pad.
***************************************
8)
***************************************
-- what's wrong about mx518:
************************************
- is perfect for palm users
- it has the front buttons a little too high.
- it's uncomfortable if I try to use fingers to tip the pad.
- it's not wide enaugh on the right side so that i can have a comfortable position for my small and ring fingers.
- it's too small on the left side, so that i keep my thumb curved too much to the right
- the thumb buttons are too up so that on the correct position I have to lift my thumb too much up so that i can reach them.
- the buttons for changing the dpi should be stored into memory so that i can carry around my mouse whith new functions to that buttons.
- the quality of the mouse1 and mouse2 buttons is not good.
- not verry good position on the wheel.
- the mouse is a little too much on the right side.
- poor mouse skatez - they should be a little bigger.
***************************************
what's great about logitech mx518:
***************************************

- great quality thumb buttons - the way they feel when I press them and how they act after one year.
- great quality on the wheel - the way it feels when I press it and how it acts after one year.
- great shape for lifting the mouse in the air and great shape for palming the mouse.
- good position for mouse skatez - good stability.
***************************************
Here comes the perfect mouse:
***************************************
- thin cord as razer copperhead.
- IE3.0 mouse1 and mouse2 style, direction, orientation and size. also the way you press them.
- IE3.0 right side of the mouse, a little lifted, and a little from mx518 regarding the curve that alows you to lift the mouse.
- IE3.0 left side is perfect, as direction, as thumb responsiveness and comfort, but with mx518 quality thumb buttons.
- IE3.0 back side of the mouse or mx518 back side as they are both comfortable for palm using.
- MX518 wheel and intelli 3.0 space between mouse1 and mouse2.
- MX518 front button (small button in front of the wheel, but positioned between the wheel and the mouse 2 button, a little bit bigger so that could be used for jumping or scoping on awp for users that can't use thumb buttons for this, or don't like to use +attack2 on the keyboard).
(would be great a mouse as A4tech WInBest 4D wich has 3 separate buttons and 2 wheels- no buttons on wheels)
- IE3.0 tracking system for lifting the mouse.
- MX518 tracking as negative accel because it has the most powerfull mouse on the market.
- A4Tech tracking accuracy, so that it has the most hardware accel free mouse - make the mouse have 500 HZ all the time, no variations, so that's making the mouse work bad.
- 800 DPI is the best resolution or maximum 1600 dpi, so that a user can handle.
- no pixel skipping, or negative accel, or jittery movement (MX518 is perfect on this).
- must be working without drivers, recognizing all mouse buttons.
- must be storing profiles and mouse functions so that if you go to a lan party you can still have x function assinged to y button of the mouse.
- MUST be able to select different functions for any button - must not have predefined functions that you cannot change.
- as total shape Microsoft habu matches what i said, but the skipping problem won't let me buy it, also the right side of the mouse is not good enough made so that i can easily lift it.
also, the buttons are as big as they will make me not able to palm the mouse without effort, i'll allways be stressed that i'll accidently press mouse1 and 2 button.

Hope I made a point - scuze me for my english

Personally I don't like razer's thin cords (a la DB), I've found my cords to get nicked very easily. If we must move to thin cords, make the outter jacket stronger than razer's.

Btw, did it occur to anyone that Logimgr is destined to be Mcfly's wife? They share a passion for mice! Common grounds ftw.

rofl

Throw in Feuersturm and you'll have one hell of a peripheral ménage à trois.

<3

Linux drivers please.

Can't stress it enough. Give me my damn accelerated scrolling, while you're at it!!!

1. Currently I use Logitech MX518. In the past I've used

Logitech MX510
MS Explorer 3.0
MS Explorer 4.0
Logitech Mouseman wheel optical
Logitech first mouse (3 button ball mouse)
Genius Net Mouse (ball mouse)
+ other generic noname ball mice

2. Setpoint installed, 1600dpi, game detection disabled, OS Implementation, no acceleration, 500hz USB patch.

3. Everglide Titan cloth pad.

"a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? "
Works great with MX518.

"For better gliding? Better tracking performance?"
Yes and Yes

4. "4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)? "
Both ways. Depends on who I am playing and on what map, whether its tdm or duel etc. Its never the same.

5. I use about 11cm for 360 turn. None of the optical mice I've used ever skipped or malfunctioned. I use both flick style and skating/tracking style it depends on the situation in the game.

6. "6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?"

Hard to measure it really. Never had a problem with it except Mouseman because you had to lift too high to lose traction. It was impossible to play so I returned it the following day and got MS Explorer 3.0.

7. Never tried laser mice but most people on forums claim they're not better than optical for gaming.

8. Well if 7. is true then I suggest you improve technology and make new laser mice as good as optical.

MX518 is pretty much a perfect mouse for me. No need to change.

Cheers and keep up the good work :-)

&^*%#$^@$#&^# it... got an error after supplying my post, lost the data
i`m not going to type it all over again =(

Always copy part way through... I've had it sign me out before when writting a long post, but often that keeps it when I hit back :P

Wingman with 400dpi optical sensor (not much but stable and best shape) would be NICE

Can you explain why 400 dpi, why not more?
Cause I think its not about personal taste here, its the more the better - till a certain point where our hand cant move this precise. Though I do believe we`ve reached that point with 1600dpi at the least.

i also use 400 dpi with my g3, dont see/feel an advantage in using a higher dpi count, am i bad now ?:|

You ARE bad, but higher DPI usually only becomes useful at higher resolutions.

thx for the information

i do like 800 dpi, can't feel anything with 1600 dpi, but the difference between 400 and 800 dpi is obvious.

Wingman gaming mouse should come back with optical sensor!

I dont know if it's been mentioned or not but a new wingman would rock.
lol
And perhaps give the mouse bottons a very 'hair trigger' feel. Less pressure to accurately push down on the mouse the better with in reason. :)

mouse microsoft mwo/q4 (dm style games) microsoft 1.1se/cs/cod2

i have owned wingman, mx500, mx510, mx518, razor copperhead, fatal1ty 1010, explorer 3.0, imo 1.1a, imo 1.1se, mwo

i play on a qck heavy

all i think logitech needs to do is take the mx518 in side and out just how it is. Then put something between G5-microsoft explorer sized feet on it, force the usb refresh rate to 500hz like the g5, give it a weight system, and give it a softer cord.

i think if you made a 518 like this and a G3 sized mouse you could have a winner

and plz no more stupid dpi shit 400 dpi is enough i can live with the 1600 dpi of the 518 but im a microsoft user till some actually improves on these old mice

1. Have owned mx500 and now I'm on a razer diamondback. For desktop usage 1600 dpi is certainly a lot better then 800, for gaming I'm not sure it matters that much unless you play at some really high sens (which nobody who takes gaming seriously does imo).

2. I use pretty much every type of sens setting depending on the game at hand. Q3 is mostly low sens with accel, enemy territory lower sens and more accel, urban terror just plain low sens.

3. For mouse mat I use a Duvel beer mat I got from a bar. It's really thin, cloth with rubber at bottom and like 50 cm wide and 20 cm high. Best thing I ever had as a mat and I wouldn't ever see myself using anything but cloth.

4. Between thumb and 4th finger, aim with palm movements mostly and for fast moving I use my forearm

5. 5 cm flicks aren't unthinkable, haven't had failures on mice that much. mx500 lost a foot, microsoft optical (the first one) had a broken cable after a few years, still have a logitech mouseman wheel (blue one) with all feet missing but otherwise still working.

6. I don't like the fact that I have to lift optical mice higher then ball mice to reset their position. The razer I currently have seems to lose tracking at just the right height, while my mx500 tracks too good to comfortably move it back to center.

7. Optical, laser was just too weirdly sensitive

8. I have really big hands (like grab a basketball with 1 hand), so a bigger mouse would be good (mouseman wheel was almost good, but the back was too thin, but stick in an mx518 sensor and I'd probably get that one). Also try to fix this teflon feet breaking off, like make em stick through the mouse itself rather then just glueing em to the bottom or something ?

I never lost the feet on my mice. You should get a better mousepad :). I am also dependant on being able to remove them to replace with hyperglides.

Optical wingman! 1600dpi, overclocked usb hz, scroll wheel, teflon feet, etc.

In relation to how far the mouse is lifted:
The microsoft 1.1a optical mouse is great in that regard. I think the optimal height for sensing is very very low. If the mouse is off the mouse pad AT ALL, it should not be sending data to the computer. The 1.1a stops sensing literally a few mm off of the mousepad, while all logitech mice ive used keep sensing for a while. This creates a lot of unnecessary movement and strain for the gamer that is pointless.

Sometimes, when a lot of logitech mice ive used are lifted off the mousepad, they will continue to give readings. I've had weird instances where it'll still give readings when the nearest thing is literally feet away. Take a note from microsoft here, it should literally be that if the mouse is not within a few millimeters of the pad, it should just stop sending alltogether.

Wingman remake!

I want a mx518 with a rubber grip on the left click and right click.

1) Logi MX310 (have used MX510 and cheapo other ones)

2) sens 5/11. no accel, 1000hz usb overclock

3) FatPad. large mousepad = win

4) fingertip palm lightly touching high point on mouse

5) high sens/flicking. no malfunctions

6) ~1 cm. usually lift the right side of the mouse and drag the left as I pick it up.

7) don't care. as long as they work

8) Make a mouse w/ MX310 shape + mx510 style side buttons + latest and greatest sensor.

1) Currently using Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer 3.0
In the past I've used: Logitech Mini Optical, MX300, MX310, MX510, MX518, KTEC KTM-6500, Razer Diamondback, Microsoft WMO 1.1a, Microsoft IntelliMouse 1.1a

2) 8/11, standard buttons, 125hz

3) Steelpad QcK+

4) Combination

5) I used to do fast movements when using higher-sens/dpi mice, but I just sort of slide/glide with the IME 3.0

6) Sometimes, and no.

7) Currently optical technology has proven to be far more reliable. I am interested in trying Laser mice, but the poor reviews it recieves in general make me very skeptical about them. If Laser was improved to be more reliable I would definately use laser.

8) Improve Laser mice :D

Like somebody already mentioned, allow us to set the mouse acceleration value in setpoint (e.g. 0.00-100) rather than off/low/medium/high.

Acceleration on the mouse wheel scrolling (Check microsoft drivers)

Have the buttons give minimal resistance to clicking, enough so players can lightly rest their fingers on them.

Make a mouse with "no" negative acceleration and that "never" malfunctions and never skips. And that doesn't require you to lift it a mile off of the mousepad for it to lose tracking.

Make the mouse has a non-smooth texture (e.g. the one on the sides of the G3)

Teflon feet (Add some replacement ones with the mouse though)!

Make sure the mouse has "no" latency.

Make sure the wire is thin, doesn't get "bent" easily and doesn't break!

Make it very, very light and then allow players to add in weights (Like the G5 system but the mouse has to be as light as humanly possible)

Create a "wire weight"/"mouse bungee" type product and include it with the mice rather than as a seperate investment.

Then remake the mx300-310, mx500, wingman and maybe even the dual optical shape (Also get a sample of hardcore [competitive] gamers who like "symetrical"/"erganomic" mice to help you design new shapes)

1) Currently using logitech mx518. I have used microsoft intellimouse explorer 3.0, logitech mx500 and logitech mx510 in the past.

2) 1600dpi. no accel. smart move: off. Sensitivity 3/11 (OS implementation). game detection disabled. usbport @ default 125Hz (because tournaments wont allow hacking usb port, and it seems mx518 does not gain that much performance from it either). ingame sensitivity so that about half (19cm) of my qpad is used to do one 180 degree turn. cpl mousefix (registry patch). dpi switching buttons is disabled, if I ever wanted to change sensitivity ingame, I would just bind it. I dont know any good players who use dpi changer.

3) Large Qpad CT Black 1,5 mm - http://www.corporate.qpad.se/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5

a) Size and glide combined. I never had any tracking problems with mx518 on any surface. If my mouse would have problems with tracking, I would change it, not the mousepad. It gives the feel of cloth pad but also has nice glide with hyperglides and because its so thin on a hard table.

4) Tight grip between thumb and fourth finger (if thumb is number one). Mouse firmly placed in my palm. Second and third finger is touching mouse1 and mouse2 with fingertips only. My littlefinger does not hide alongside of the mouse like the shape suggests. I use this finger to control the resistance to the mousepad when I move the mouse around.

5) When I move my mouse around I use flick movements to get most consistent response. Im a low sens player (counterstrike). mx518 never lose track of my movements.

6) I lift it just as high as nessesary to stop the tracking of the surface when I reposition the mouse on my mousepad. I set my sensitivity so that I dont need to lift the mouse all the time. I would never want to lift the mouse in a situation when I wanted to move my mouse quickly to another point. In other situations I lift the mouse all the time so that it is centered in the middle of the mousepad. That way I am ready to move my mouse any direction nessesary. so to answer your question, tracking is not an issue when I lift my mouse, because I hardly move the mouse around unless it is on my mousepad. I would imagine finetuning the sensor so that it only tracks the surface when the mousefeet is touching the mousepad would be best for gaming. It would take some getting used to tho.

7) I have not tried laser mice yet. mainly because of the horrible feedback from my fellow gamers. I cant affort to buy expencive laser mice just to try them out myself either. I am so adjusted to this mouse that changing to laser mice (slower but more accurate) would mean I would have to change my gaming style. I dont need to fix something that is not broken. I am in no need of higher than 1600dpi anyway, and I doubt anyone ever will be.

8) Try and release products that we can modify ourselfs. maby mod kits for your current gaming mice or small stuff like this: http://www.steelseries.com/products/steelgear...p/pictures

1) Currently using Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical. Have used Logitech Optical Basic, Logitech MX500, Logitech MX510, Logitech MX518, Logitech MX1000, Logitech G5, Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0.

2) 400 dpi, 6/middle on the sens bar, I use low sensitivity in-game , usb 500hz 'hack'

3) QPad CT Black

a) Smooth, mouse glides well and allows me to move the mouse fast without drag

4) Palm for large movements, finger grip for smaller movements

5) I like the Microsof tWMO because it's light and symmetrical so the mouse always corresponds exactly to the screen and I can move it very fast to hit 180 shots. This also helps with movement in quake as circle jumps are easier.

6) I only lift mouse on 360's etc.

7) Optical, never failed for me. The MX1000 Laser sensor sucked for me. Lifting the mouse tended to stop the mouse working for a few seconds?

8) Make a mouse with WMO weight, shape, sensor etc etc but add a thumb button! That would be the perfect mouse for me :D

that mouse exists: intelli optical 1.1, same sensor, shape, thumb + pink button

I sincerely hope you come back regularly to check this thread, as I've been wanting to give someone knowledgable at Logitech feedback for a long time.


1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

Currently a Logitech MX518. I've used an MX1000 (weight was too off-centered), MX510, MX310/MX300, Wingman Mouse, MouseMan Wheel (with the green rubber bits), several A4-Tech mice of unknown model number, Microsoft IntelliMouse 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0, Razor Boomslang, and dozens more nameless mice.

The hands down BEST EVER mouse I've used is the MouseMan Wheel, with a particular A4-tech model far behind in 2nd, and my current MX518 tied for 3rd place with the Wingman 3-button mouse.

2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.

Windows 2000, Default (middle/6th-bar) Control Panel Sensitivity, No Mouse Acceleration, Game-specific button assignments, No Logitech Software, 500Hz Polling Rate, Default (middle of 3 choices) built-in mouse DPI setting, 1-3 sensitivity depending on the game/field of view.

3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.
a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?

QcK Steel Pad (cloth)
I prefer cloth pads for lack of friction, and while Allsop pads had the best surface, this QcK pads large surface area is what won me over. I've used all the classic pads (Everglide, Icepad, so many I've forgotten their names), and a 12-inch Allsop is what I'd wish for most.

4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?

Thumb and Pinky finger for horizontal movement, with palm/bottom of those fingers for more precision, and 3rd finger resting a tiny bit above the pinky for lateral/flickshot precision.

5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.

Wrist Flick shots for hitscan weapons (laser rifle, railgun, awp), and slowly wrist-ball-joint sliding for tracking weapons (chaingun, lightning gun, ak47). A combination of the two for weapons that require "leading", i.e rocket launcher, disc launcher etc. You need a light mouse for effective flick shots, and one thats bottom isn't too rounded for tracking, or it catches the skin on your hand when you move it quickly.

6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?

Between 3mm and 10mm depending on how fast I need to turn. My MX518 Optical has problems when lifting, which my MX1000 didn't have (to my recollection). The optical stops tracking at about 6-8mm on my cloth pad, and even lower on other surfaces. The only reason I use the 518 is because it's currently the best there is, and because my MouseMan is a ball-mouse instead of an optical.

7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?

Laser have seemed to have better precision on any surface, but good opticals rarely skip now days if they're not lifted too quickly.

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?

PLEASE - PLEASE make a Laser version of the classic Logitech MouseMan Wheel (with the green rubber bits), and perhaps better thumb button positions. Entire teams I used to play on used that one type of mouse (with Allsop pads back then). It's Logitechs greatest achievement. Please make this.

After reading more of the thread (I've just finished the first page), I'd like to clarify a few things.

While I currently use my palm on the MX518. I prefer just touching with the tip of my fingers.

Oh, and I prefer Optical mice on my QcK Steelpad. A mouse should stop tracking when it's lifted more than 3mm.


The ideal mouse would be:

Really Light
Optical
Soft Cord (but sturdy wiring, rigid cords twist up yet soft ones break the wires easily)
Well positioned thumb buttons
Designed to be held with thumb/pink and maybe 3rd finger (one between Middle and Pinky) as support
The less palm touching the mouse, the better
Rough/rubber surface (I absolutely hate the grime build-up after hours of using the smooth MX518)
Super-Soft buttons
Large replaceable pads (but designed to last forever) that don't cover the screws
500Hz Poll Rate (Lite Drivers that work on Windows 2000 and just have basic features like key rebinding with NO bloat)
Stops tracking immediately when lifted
Works on any flat surface
Extra buttons near the 3rd finger, but not where you rest it
No buttons in useless positions (or ones to change DPI), like the MX518's 3 buttons near the scroll wheel
The base should be _completely_ flat, use the MouseMan as a foundation for the shape

I'll post more ideas when they come to me

1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

I use a Fatal1ty 1010(button is garbage) for now. I also have a Logitech Mx310.


2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.

I use 400 DPI, fifth notch to the left in control panel.

3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.
a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?

I use a regular blue cloth mousepad. Cheapest one I can find.


4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?

Palm, my fingers extents way in front of the mouse.

5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.

I play Counter-Strike with low sensitivity. 40cm/360 turn. I flick fast with the mouse all the time, sometimes If i flick too fast, the mouse would not register the distance I moved accurately. This is negative acceleration


6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?

I lift for about 0.5cm high, no tracking problem. Same with every mouse

7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?

Optical, allows fast movement without skipping.

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?
Please make lighter mouse. I must use fatal1ty 1010 to play FPS games because MX310 is too heavy.

LOGITECH!!!
at least modify an mx518 and make the following modification:
1. put the feet from G5 on it
2. Make the line on the right side of the mouse a litle more on the top of the right side so that I can do put my small AND ring finger UNDER that line, as at the moment the only finger that fits there is my small finger. There you go, you have a new mouse :p

1) In the past ive used intellimouse explorer 3.0, i have got the new version as well. Now I am using the intellimouse explorer 4.0 because of its ergonomics. Never a fan of the razer mouse because i think their shape sucks. The mx5** series my brother has it but again i dont like the shape a lot. Since I think all logitech mices are of similar shape i dont bother with them. I dont know but i pawn people with better mouse. (im looking at the razer deathadder due to its new ergonomic shape but im a poor guy so the price puts me off)

2)[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/ikra/untitled-2.jpg[/IMG]

3) DKT gamerz cloth mousemat (gotta hate plastics and steel and glass)

4) bottom part of my palm resting against the mouse mat.. the rest is on the mouse. This proves a good thing because it allows the bottom part of my palm as a swivel point giving me more precise control. Like when you are writing, writing on air gives bad penmanship, but resting your end bit of the palm against the surface gives your perfect handwriting.

5) I want the mouse to sense the speed at which i am moving it. The faster i move the more space it covers, the slower the lesser. But i want to have certain threshold points as to which the mouse does this. Thus when i want to turn 180, a fast flick would allow me to do that it makes sense because moving my hand too much against the surface kinda sucks. This has to be finely tuned!

6) less than 0.5cm at most times... this is basically because if i lift it up too high i lose time and losing that time determines whether you get the first shot or get shot first.

7) optical all the way, laser mice needs a bumpy surface added to the fact that laser doesnt really give me a sense of safety, what if a 3 year old stares at it for god knows how long.. can damage the eye can't it? (or i might bw wrong) but the fact is i believe optical is a proven tech for gaming, i have yet to be impressed with laser mouses esp the benchmark here gives laser mouses a bad rep.

8) Change the shape of your mouse since almost every logitech mouse i see has the same shape in one way or another, better colour schemes (wtf is up with the stripes and holes???), and build some series for the poor gamers.

laser mice needs a bumpy surface added to the fact that laser doesnt really give me a sense of safety, what if a 3 year old stares at it for god knows how long.. can damage the eye can't it? (or i might bw wrong)

lmao

you cant see a beam coming out of the mouse as it is with LEDs
next to that, it would a really freaky kid staring at the bottom of a mice...

1) MX518, used MX500 in the past (and always thought it was better... for no reason).

2) Defaults @ windows, no acceleration, 400dpi, polling rate 500hz, using about 40cm/360° for the game I play.

3) Using an Allsop Gigapad XL (or something like that)
a) It provides me reasonable friction and it feels smooth and is not fragile. Also it makes ~no noise. It's not cold @ winter when I have my window open.

4) I'd say palm, but pretty much like FragtioN.

5) Fast+slow, it's always a combination. Flick and track.

6) 3mm I'd say, not much.

7) Optical, I've tried various laser mice and they all skip @ low sensitivity. Skipping is the worst thing ever. The reason why I bought an MX518 to replace my broken MX500 instead of G5.

8) My mousefeet wore off, I complained and you guys shipped me replacements. Great service eventho I don't like the way you make keyboards. (The most important thing = ability to hit a lot of keys at once. Useless keys and features(G15 anyone) just don't do it.)

1) Logitech MX518 @400dpi because it's only thing they sell these days that comes close enough to a MX510 (@400dpi)

2)400dpi, no drivers installed, 1000hz, no "enhance pointer precision" and windows sens @ 5

3)Steelpad Qck Heavy, cloth mousepad.

4) Finger tip I think, with the bottom of my hand slightly leaning on the mouse.

5) Short movements when it's within reach on the screen, long ones if I have to move alot, like 180° turns. Sens is low-mid. I tend to reach speeds of 3m/s often. I had sever skipping problems with the Logitech G5 but never had those with the MX510/MX518

6) I usually lift it about 1centimeter high, no probs when using a MX510/MX518.

7) ATM I prefer optical but I do have to agree on the fact that laser mice feel more accurate, but the skipping problems atm made me go to optical again.

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?

BRING BACK THE MX510!! :D

When will creative ever come out with a revised G3 with mx518 optics ? I'm pretty certain a mouse like that will sell like hot cakes.

My trusty MX300 of 5 years is worn and cannot be found on sale anymore. Until logitech wakes up and churns out G3 with a decent sensor, i'm a happy camper with my WMO 1.1a.

When will creative ever come out with a revised G3 with mx518 optics ?

I think the same day Logitech comes with the new X-Fi...

Anyways, ever seen the G1? same shape.
But you`re right, it would be great if they update the G1 with the MX518 sensor

G1 isnt an option too since finding one here( UK ) is as rare as finding a mx300. Even if it was on sale, i bet the price wouldnt be pocket friendly.

The reason i mentioned G3 was because of its side buttons. I'm sure i could use the extra 2 buttons when playing cs or well , just any game.

I agree. It seems the G1 is no longer made....doesnt show up on their website and no longer in stores.... discontinued?
And I like side buttons too, great for some quick binds or peaking ingame.

Suggestion till a better alternative: Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical.
The best shape and side buttons there are imo (better than G3). Same sensor as the IE3.0... its pretty much outdated, but still performs great (400dpi, polling oc`d to 500hz).

1)
Currently:
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0

Previous:
Logitech MX-1000
Razer Copperhead
Logitech G5
Microsoft Intellimouse 1.1a
Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1a

2)
Sensitivity 6/11, default button assignments, 125hz report rate

3)
Some cheap cloth and a qck heavy.

4)
Fingertip mostly

5)
My sens is about 26cm for a 360ş turn. I guess i move the mouse pretty normally using both flicks and skating.

6)
Not much, id say about 1mm. Logitech G5 lift off distance was ok to me, just to name an example. My current mouse (ie3.0) has some issues with the qck heavy by requiring about 3mm to stop tracking. My guess that´s a faulty unit since i never saw any1 complaining about this mouse/mousepad combination. Never got used to it so i went back for some cheap cloth and now everything´s fine.
G5 lift off distance was pretty ok for me, just to name an example.

7)
I think no1 cares about what makes it work, as long as it does it in a reasonable way . Just make it work properly.

8)

Pretty much what #223 says.
Remember, shape is the most importante thing in a gamer´s mouse. And make the mouses light, as most as humanly possible &#61514;
1)
Currently:
Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 3.0

Previous:
Logitech MX-1000
Razer Copperhead
Logitech G5
Microsoft Intellimouse 1.1a
Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical 1.1a

2)
Sensitivity 6/11, default button assignments, 125hz report rate

3)
Some cheap cloth and a qck heavy.

4)
Fingertip mostly

5)
My sens is about 26cm for a 360ş turn. I guess i move the mouse pretty normally using both flicks and skating.

6)
Not much, id say about 1mm. Logitech G5 lift off distance was ok to me, just to name an example. My current mouse (ie3.0) has some issues with the qck heavy by requiring about 3mm to stop tracking. My guess that´s a faulty unit since i never saw any1 complaining about this mouse/mousepad combination. Never got used to it so i went back for some cheap cloth and now everything´s fine.
G5 lift off distance was pretty ok for me, just to name an example.

7)
I think no1 cares about what makes it work, as long as it does it in a reasonable way . Just make it work properly.

8)

Pretty much what #223 says.
Remember, shape is the most importante thing in a gamer´s mouse. And make the mouses light, as most as humanly possible &#61514;

i want the microsoft wheelmouse ball back. *smile*
http://one-simple-idea.com/WheelMouse.gif
sorry no better pciture found...

bought it 1998.

unfortunately its a very slow .
only 300-400 dpi i think
thats not acceptable for today screens 1280*1024


also have an eye on the switches. use microswitch NOT common switch like razer did in the viper krait copperhead for the wheelbutton!!!
typ.more pressure is nessercery and they are not very reliabale.
for toys maybe its ok but not for tools..

for now i will give the new 1000dpi logitech pilot mouse with 4way wheel a chance. :-)

im using that mouse. Removed the ball and all that crap and put a logitech g1 sensor into it ;P

nerds....

By Latvia Clw '
mx518 with g5 mousefeet and out-of-the-box 500hz would be godlike.

Listen to this man. I would buy that mouse in a heartbeat, as long as it has 8 ergonomic buttons like the mx518.


1)Logitech all the way, from the ball mice to mx518 in any game.

2) I use medium sens, all eight buttons and a refreshrate hack to get the highest Hz count possible, since the mouseware software makes the movement jaggy on default Hz.

3) FATpad, soon to be replaced with the razer clothpad that I forgot the name of. Clothpads are the very best, as long they have the rubber base.
a) Clothpads have smooth tracking, a little resistence that counters nervous shaking and are completely flexible. Also they are huge these days.

4) Palm, almost never fingertip style, I find the mx518 too big for that. I wouldn't fingertip it anyway.

5) I move the mouse like you would expect in shooter games, fast for movement, slow for aiming with the occasional flicks for rails and infight. The mouse didn't fail once for me yet.

6) I lift it up while resting the hand joint on the pad, so the mouse is like 0.5-1 cm from the surface. Never failed for me yet.

7) Never used a laser mouse. Optical works fine for me so far.

8) Make better driver software that really shows you how your mouse behaves, with graphs and Hz tracking and the like. I had to trial-and-error a long time to really get the XP acceleration out of my game and get a stable sensitivity in games and windows.

Also, drop the DPI switch, its useless (for everyone i know) and makes setting up a stable mouse harder. Also please use higher quality in your rubber surfaces on the mouse, my old mx500 has a blank spot where the thumb rests. Also, cleaning tips would be nice, since alcohol seems to damage the rubber surface.

edit: spelling

WMO FTW :P

2. Windows pointer speed in the middle (default), no pointer acceleration

3. Steelpad QcK Plus - size and material, just great for me. I use it just for comfortable gameplay.

4. Fingertip style

5. Rather hi-sens, but moves aren't so slow. I used to play on very low sens - 50cm/360 - my moves were very fast then.

6. 0,5 cm max

7. Optical, with LED diode. Why? Just for sure, that my mouse will always do what i want. When you use a laser mouse pointer usualy will be often "jumping" back for 1-2pixels while moving very slow on most surfaces.

8. Hehehe, DPI switchers are pointles for serious gamers.
I want the MX300 shape back with LED :P
LOL at 1000Hz in new edition of G5 - i know from a company, which is making mouses, that it is hardware limited to 500Hz in ands-6010 - it's just fooling programs that it has 1kHz usb rate.
Please make a more durable buttons ;/
New shapes, and models with different shapes, but with the same optics pls ;]

This thread is still going :P

1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

Right now I am using a Hybrid of the Logitech MX510 and MX500 mice. The micro switches were wearing out on the 510 after 3 years of gaming and I already had bought a spare mx500 for parts. I like the glossy coating of the 510 for better grip so I used that part with the MX500 sensor, buttons, and chassis. (the two sensors were the same model and the mx500 which much newer had a higher revision number. (it also was harder to make skip))

In the past I have used:
Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical 1.0 (back from long long ago)
Logitech MX510, Logitech MX500, Logitech G5, Logitech MX1000, Logitech G7, Razer DeathAdder.

The best shape out of all these was the DeathAdder, however I move it too fast for it to track my movements without skipping so It's currently worthless.

2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.

I hate using mouse drivers. I greatly prefer the simplicity of letting windows manage my cursor speed (6/11, the default 1:1 ratio) and using modified system files to destroy Windows XP's pointer ballistics. (acceleration)

I use the highest report rate my mouse can obtain stably. In the case of the DeathAdder it was 1000hz, in the case of my others, 500hz. Future mice need to load up running at 500hz in hardware without having to hack the USB rate in software like what your G5 does.

I like binding mouse4 and mouse5 to functions in my games, but I will not use the mouse buttons if they require even a moderate adjustment of my grip on the mouse. I like mice that are simple and elegant 5 button designs with a wheel, the extra buttons down the center of the MX5xx mice are not easily used in games.

The death adder was good this way since I could use both buttons without moving my thumb. The MX5xx shape was worse in this regard since only the further back of the two thumb buttons was easily pressed without shifting my grip.

3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.
a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?

I use an Xtrac Pads Ripper XXL.
http://www.xtracpads.com/ripperXXL.htm

I favored this cloth mousepad for it's size and it's size alone. Most mousepads are simply too small to suit my very low mouse sensitivity, I play fast paced FPS games so picking up the mouse and recentering it in a fight is not an option usually.

However I like the feeling of cloth since it soft for my wrist and has a nice level of friction that helps keep fast movements under control. One of my major complaints of almost all mouse pad companies is they make their pads black!

It's clear that dark colored surfaces reflect less light and thus don't work as well with optical sensors as lighter colored pads could. My DeathAdder skipping on this pad is one example of the failure of black to promote excellent tracking. Especially important for gamer like me who at times moves the mouse faster than 4m/s (watch the video :P)

4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?
I hold my mice in my right hand. The thumb presses on the left side of the mouse and then I put the ring and pinky fingers on the right side of the mouse and I can clamp and hold the mouse firmly with these 3 fingers.

I do not like mice shapes like the MX5xx that try to make you hold the mouse with the thumb and pinky! This is a BAD grip, the pinky is not a strong enough finger to really oppose the force of the thumb and so you get a mushy hold on the mouse and sloppy aim at best this way.

When I hold the MX510 this way my ring finger's fingerpad is actually on the ridge on the right side of the mouse a strange place but I can get the needed strong grip this way atleast.

My pointing and middle finger use mouse1 and mouse2 respectively. I always press mouse3 with my pointer finger. I usually curl these two fingers so the tips of them contact the main buttons rather than lay them on the buttons. This helps reduce the number of misclicks I get making fast movements, it also seems to help for reaction time but I'm not sure.

Study the shape of the MS IE3.0 mouse and the DeathAdder very carefully as this type of shape promotes this strong and accurate grip style naturally and like no other mouse I've experienced. The shape of the mouse and how you can grip it is truly the most important feature of any mouse.

I like the MS IE3.0 shape so much because you can hold it mostly in the palm comfortably. Then instantly switch without making any adjustments to the fingers to a more precise finger hold like I described above. This gives it unparalleled comfort and accuracy that the MX5xx shape just DOES NOT have. I do not shoot as accurately using this MX510 as I do with the DeathAdder, but this mouse does not skip so I don't lose games in overtime because I skipped to the floor at a bad moment.

5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.

My mouse sensitivity in most games is above 65cm/360. The movements I make are very fast to make up for the slow sensitivity. Almost no mice I have owned can totally handle this style. If I make a concerted effort I can physically make them all skip on various surfaces pretty easily.

Video of Razer Death Adder and other mice skipping:
http://hosted.filefront.com/antigen07
Me making Mice Skip
DAbeforeafter.wmv

I use my whole arm to play, when I need precision I hold the mouse tighter and aim with my fingers. The wrist is not really involved in my playing style I keep it comfortably straight in most situations, again refer to the video.

I am sure this doesn't need to be said but the G5 laser mouse was horrible for me and I sold it to a friend after a couple months. Please, for the love of god, give up on Laser technology for gaming mice. Even if it is possible to improve the tracking to be as good as older opticals are. It just needs to come too far to get there. It is better to use led based opticals which are tried and known to work than to chase a dream of a laser gaming mouse that will never happen.

Whatever improvements they bring in tracking fine surface details is useless to me when my hand is moving 30 miles per hour.

6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?

Before I had my large pad I had to frequently lift and recenter my mouse on the pad. All optical mice I have tried have a slight bit of cursor jitter and wander when they are lifted up from the pad and when set back down.

The ideal performance in my eyes would be a mouse you could lift up from the pad without moving more than 2-3 pixels and then set back down again without moving more than 2-3 pixels.

The way that could be achieved is with a shorter liftoff height. However this is merely an annoyance it is not NEARLY as much of a concern as the skipping problems most mice have at high speeds.

So once you've made a mouse that can track motion at 6-10 m/s and beyond without negative acceleration and featuring a good shape. Then you can worry about making it stop tracking after lifting 2-3mm on darker mouse pad surfaces.

7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?

Laser mice are horrible at tracking fast motion. The extra CPI that they offer is worthless for most serious gamers who are completely satisfied with 400 or 800dpi. (by that I mean extra dpi is not useful because at low sensitivity they already have pixel precision aim)

I prefer 400dpi old school optical sensors because they are by and large the most reliable that I have ever used. Logitech should know the Avago ADNS-3060 they used in the MX510 and MX500 was one of the best low sensitivity and high speed handling mouses ever made. If you could improve on that sensor design you are stepping in the right direction.

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?

I want you to know that I have been a loyal customer for ages but I am not happy with how I got shafted with crappy laser mice marketed with big numbers of dpi and blah blah to be the second coming. When they were total trash.

You need to have confidence that making a superior product for gamers will be a success. Regardless of marketing friendly 2500DPI LAZER HYPER MEGA MOUSE crap. If you released a mouse today that was only 400 or 800 cpi like the optical MX510 but much improved. I am sure your marketing team would think it was suicidal. Imagine all those uninformed hardware reviewers and little kids saying it 'feel's worse than 2000dpi Laser mice. (Placebo Effect probably)

That may happen but if the product has performance where it counts, certainly Sujoy's tests will reveal it, and if it's got the shape to back up that performance, works correctly out of the box, eventually you might see top class gamers using it at tournaments and it's reputation for reliability without skipping or negative acceleration and the accuracy provided by the good shape would keep sales strong by word of mouth not high flash marketing numbers.

Gamers in the end are going to use what works and what is comfortable. You already have made what works with the MX518/MX500 optical sensor. Now you just need to make a comfortable right handed design like the MS IE3.0 or better.

Let me list 15 things this mouse needs to have and be able to do:

1. BE OFFERED IN TWO SHAPES - One that's slightly larger, ergonomic and right handed only and another smaller with the same features/optics and a nice symmetrical shape. Both shapes need a centralized optical port and both need to be corded.

2. NOT BE A LASER MOUSE - This one is a given since using the technology makes the mouse worthless for the growing number of competitive players using low sensitivity. Use standard LED or Infrared LED illumination based on what can give the best performance.

3. NOT BE DPI CRAZY - Not only is it very annoying to have to use 1600+dpi on the desktop when you don't have mouse drivers installed. It is also useless fluff for all gamers that use medium high sensitivity and lower. At 800x600, the most common gaming resolution and 90 degrees FOV, there are about 3200 pixels to aim at in one 360 turn. If I use 20 inches to make a 360, any mouse that is at least 160dpi gives me pixel precise targeting.
Don't cater to high sensitivity players. They have bad aim and shouldn't be using such high settings like 2"/360 to need to have 1600dpi anyhow, let Razer be the company to satisfy this small group's dpi chase.

4. RUN AT 500 OR 1000HZ USB BY DEFAULT - All the good gaming mice from years ago lack this feature and it's a disadvantage at tournaments when you can't modify the computers to run at the higher USB report rate. This also simplifies the user's experience allowing peak performance with just plugging in the mouse.

5. NO GIMMICK FEATURES - I hate to break it to you but on-the-fly DPI switching, more than 5 buttons, laser sensors, glowing colorful LEDs, adjustable weights, rumbling force feedback, tilting scroll wheels, wireless connections and anything else that looks or seems cool on the box but does not add to the performance and usefulness of the mouse is a gimmick. A mouse should be built as simple and light as possible while maintaining strength functionality and durability.

6. MUST TRACK ALL FAST MOTIONS - A gaming mouse should not skip on any decent cloth mousepad. This includes movements faster than 5m/s. If you think you've made a mouse high performance enough so that no one can ever make the sensor skip... Stop think again and rebuild it with a 50% even higher top speed. There is no excuse for this one, a mouse that flips out and goes to the floor should not be a part of 2007's PC Gaming peripheral market. Yet almost almost all the top selling gaming mice out there are quite easy to make skip with some elbow grease.

7. MUST NOT HAVE NEGATIVE/POSITIVE ACCELERATION - Again the reliability of the mouse handling speed not only is determined by the point that it skips at but the point that your in-game movements are no longer in direct proportion to the speed and distance you are moving the mouse. If a gamer keeps his sensitivity the same has a mouse acceleration disabling patch like Anir's fix and moves the mouse a fixed distance, say 50cm and turns 360 degrees. Everytime he moves 50cm no matter at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5m/s and beyond he ought to turn the same 360 degrees. This is so important for a consistent gaming experience to have a consistent mouse response to the same distance traveled.

8. SHAPE NEEDS TO PROMOTE GOOD ACCURACY - If you are not sure what type of a shape does this, go to a world class tournament and look at what mouses the best FPS gamers are using. Take a sample of the top 16 or top 32, split the mice up by the ones that are right handed and the ones that are symmetrical and make a design based on the best points of each of these that can give the same or better amount of comfort, control and steady grip that makes these mice stand out from the rest.

9. USE GOOD MATERIALS IN THE SHELL - With the Logitech MX510 you upgraded from slippery matte silver to a reflective surface. This noticeably improved the grip with no change whatsoever to the shape. An example of your failure was going from the MX518 to the G5. The strange black textured plastic actually had a worse grip than the old material. Your goal should to make sure nobody ever has to make a http://www.steelseries.com/int/products/mice/3_ss version of your mouse. Also I thought it was neat when you made different colored versions of the MX510. That is a good idea to make a mouse stylish, LEDs are annoying and can't be easily turned off without the drivers.

10. MAKE GOOD PTFE FEET AND INCLUDE A SECOND SET - The feet on the Logitech G5 were great. Including a separate replacement set with the mouse would be even better if the mouse is good enough to keep. It is annoying to have to buy after market mouse feet when the shipping on them often costs as much as they do. There is one problem with what mouse makers sometimes do. They put the Teflon feet on top of the screw holes to access the inside of the mouse. Customers have a right to open their products and void their own warranty if they want to. Don't force them to destroy and have to replace their mouse feet because they are curious.

11. USE A NYLON BRAIDED CORD - This was a good innovation on the G5, it keeps the cord strong, protected, light and flexible. The same design on my SteelSeries headset has sustained tons of abuse and has no problems at all. Older Logitech mice like the MX300 and MX500 have issues with the cord breaking internally at the spot where it leaves the mouse body after a year or so, you need to reinforce this area and prevent the problem in the future.

12. IMPROVE THE MICROSWITCHES - Logitech mice have problems in games with lots of clicking involved where the buttons fail prematurely. They don't have to be anything special like high actions per minute or light touch activation like Razer buttons. In fact, it is undesirable to make the buttons activate so easily on Razer mice. It causes accidental clicks and it does not improve reaction time pressing a lighter button. Just make them high quality and built to last.

13. SIMPLE FIVE BUTTON DESIGN - It is difficult to find uses for much more than 5 buttons, and everyone is accustomed to using Mouse4 and Mouse5 in web browsers for back and forward. Keep the mouse simple, more buttons just add weight and complexity to the design that wont help gamers if they never use the extra buttons in games. Again just like dpi more is not always better.

14. KEEP THE WEIGHT OF THE MOUSE LOW - I feel that adjustable weight on mice is a pointless feature that adds complexity but really has no effect on the performance. The weight of someone's hand is far more than the weight of the mouse anyways. Keeping the mouse light just reduces fatigue experienced after gaming for long periods of time and reduces inertia so the mouse can be accelerated and decelerated to aim quickly with less force and effort required. Shoot for 100g or less on the right handed model, 90g or less on the smaller symmetrical one.

15. A GOOD RELIABLE MOUSE WHEEL - The G5 was an utter failure with it's wheel. A good wheel needs to turn quietly, have distinct notches, only register one movement when the wheel passes the notched part. Then add accelerated scrolling so the faster you scroll the more lines per tick you move. The mouse wheel has to be easily clicked (most are TOO HARD) without scrolling up or down, and easy to scroll up and down without clicking. Spend some time to get this to work and people will love using your mouse.

Also considering how much brand loyalty you destroyed with the Laser G5 and G3 mice. I would not recommend naming it anything starting with "G". Maybe MX2800 and MX2803 that gets rid of the stigma of the MX1000 name as well.

you do know how old this thread is right ?xD

About 2 years.

But there might still may be hope Logitech will check it. =\

Doubt it was logitech, probably a small competitor.

we need the email adress of logimgr
edit: maybe sujoy can send an email with a nice request to check back on this thread.

I actually have a support ticket open with Razer about my DeathAdder Skipping problem.

They basically told me thanks for all the feedback, there's nothing we can do, but we'll use what you said and have showed us to help us make future generations of products... =/

I am going to go link them to this and tell them to have their product engineers read through what serious gamers need.

Done:

RazerSupport|Nemesis
Posted On: 02 Jul 2007 03:20 PM
Hi there,

Thank you for sharing this interesting piece of information with us.

We will be sharing this with the relevant departments for their attention.

Thank you once again.
Best Regards,
Razer Customer Support
www.razersupport.com

Isn't sharing wonderful?

Hi there,

This is Logimgr, not some small competitor (although that was a good one). I have been quite busy to say the least, and while I (and my engineers) have been tracking this forum along the way, it's not always easy to read it every day and respond frequently.

As is apparent, there is a lot of diversity among gamers, even just among this very hardcore community, about mouse preferences. I read your comments, your requests and your ideas. Believe me, I wish I could address them all.

In the end, we can't make the perfect mouse for each of you, but believe me, we are working hard on the big issues pointed out here, particularly with the reports of skipping and such with laser sensors. Due to technical and business constraints, we can't necessarily address everything as fast as we'd like. And sometimes, we provide the market with offerings that our most hardcore community may not love. That does not mean we don't hear you. That does not mean we aren't working on ways to meet your needs and have our products stand up to your discerning standards. But understand that we're juggling business, manufacturing and engineering realities. We accept that we'll get slammed for things, and we understand there are plenty of gamers out there who'll say Logi is stupid or doesn't listen or are a bunch of noobs. However, for what it's worth, believe me, we are listening and do strive to make our customers happy. I can't imagine another group so passionate about quality, innovation and attention to detail in this business. We're trying, and we really appreciate your feedback, praise, criticism and everything inbetween. :-)

-- Logimgr

fkn hell...

Is G7 discontinued now? and if so what is the replacement? I want a new mouse and it's got to be wireless.

No it doesn't.

1. Used various generic ms ball mice, logitech wingman, mx510, razor diamondback, currently using intellexplorer 1.1
2. windows default sens. 15cm/360 ingame, mouse1 attack, mouse2 zoom, mouse4 ventrilo.
3. qck+ mousepad
4. Palm
5. Usually about 10cm of movement before i move pick up the mouse, usually with a combination of wrist and arm motion and flicking when quick movement is needed (e.g. flick shot). no failure that i've experienced with any optical mice.
6. i lift it just enough where the mouse does not track the movement so i can reposition it on the mousepad so about 2-3cm
7. Optical just because i've heard about some tracking problems and what not related to laser mice, havent tried any myself.


8. !!!!!!!!! OPTICAL VERSION OF LOGITECH WINGMAN !!!!!!!!

*edit* oh and wtf old thread =S

why laser on the g9?

make a budget optical g9, like g8.

1) What type of mouse (manufacturer + model) do you use to game with? What have you used in the past?

mx 310 it was not bad considering the shape and all no problems ...razer copper head (sux) i used to be low sens but i changed to med now ... copper head at low sens ... omg totally sux whenever i move the mouse hard and fast it tends to turn xtra like lag or something i can't describe it ... now using mx518 ... logitech mice still the best.

2) What current settings do you use on the mouse (sensitivity, button assignments, report rate, etc)? If you could post a screen shot of your control panels, even better.

playing counterstrike control panel 6/11 in game (1.9) 800 dpi
no driver cpl mousefix installed
3) What mousing surface do you use? Mousepad name or description is fine. Even better -- a close-up photo of the surface.

razer mantis speed right now but i use baracuda jaggernault too becuz i like the big size of the pad really comfortable where u can rest both of ur hands but it really hard to maintain such a big pad.. u have to wipe the pad like a DOG when u clean it

a) Why do you favor that mousing surface? For better gliding? Better tracking performance? Size? Aesthetic?

smooth and rough cloth pad both suits me but not plastic steel or glass. mantis is just nice the size and everythign suits both low and high sens where u got the freedom and space to move around and its quite smooth. I like the big size of the the jaggernault as its really comfortable where u can rest both of ur hands but it really hard to maintain such a big pad.. u have to wipe the pad like a DOG when u clean it.

4) How do you hold it (e.g. fingertip grip, palm it)?
Finger tip to press the buttons 1 and 2 and palm touching bottom of my mx518... i hate razor as u can't really grip it wif ur palm u know ;)

5) Describe how you typically move your mouse when gaming (e.g. how fast/slow, long movements/short movements, high sens/low sens, flicking, skating, etc.). Did this movement behavior cause a mouse failure or disappointment? Videos showcasing failing behavior would be great to see.

errr i dun really know how to answer this but i prefer moving wif my wrist cause i think the shots made are more stable but in game, fast reaction is everything, arm also do have to chip in a part to give u faster reaction.

6) About how high do you typically lift your mouse when gaming? Do you ever see an issue with tracking when you lift your mouse (if so, please explain)? Does this differ for you depending on the mouse and the surface?

doesn't really affect my mx518 in any tracking problems but razer copperhead does i dun really lift my mouse up much cause im a mid sens user so i can't really answer u on this question most prob about 0.5cm.

7) Do you prefer optical or laser mice? Please explain. Are there specific situations you prefer one over the other?

optical definately. lasers are screw up like copperheads.

8) Anything else you want Logitech to know?

i dun really like the plastic glossy surface on my mx518 i prefer the rubber padding to cover the whole mouse. Sometimes when i used the mouse for too long there is some kinda shit residue on the mouse button and i have to wipe it off frequently. My mx518 for some reason keeps getting auto resets sometimes it can get irritating when u r in game and in a "hot" situation. The auto reset as in like it will reset its DPI back to 800 and randomly pushing ani buttons. As my button 4 and 5 i used it for changing crosshair size, when it auto resets, i have to change back the crosshair size to small again thats wad i normally use. <NOTE : IF ANIBODY KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM PLZ REPLY TO ME ON THIS AUTO RESET ISSUE>. And logitech uses very crappy mouse cord for mx 518 plz do something on ur nx batch of mx518 mouse if u still wanna call it a gaming grade mouse. U can't possibly have the mouse wire keep moving around loosly. I have to secure it on the table wif my monitor if not the wire will drop off the table if i move the mouse too fast. Mouse feet and sensor are good for mx518 i dun have ani problems.

Note to logitech :
make mouse suitable for all users like Right handers left handers people who like to PALM IT or like to FINGER IT. Lets say u make a mouse and call it mx888 wif the sensor of mx518 good mouse feet and a good PALM IT design den sell the mice and continue to sell it for 10 years... 10 years later people will still love the mouse and will buy it even if its extinct... u logitech people shud consider reselling G1 and mx300 and mx500 becuz they are kinda extinct and to me they are "GODLY mouse". Just like wad microsoft did they resell ie3 black edition and it been good. My point is as long as its a good mouse we don't care whether its optical or laser. u people dun have to keep upgrading and increasing ur DPI for what fuck is there a need. U mean 10 years later our human hands will evovle so much dat the mouse have to keep up with our hands ? concentrate on a few mouse model and make dem GODLY GAMING GRADE MOUSE and keep selling dem im sure i will buy dem till im age 60 if im still using computer so much at that time haha ... most prob i wud be watching soap opra on tv. :)

HERE is the number #1 thing you should do!

Make a Utility for just the mouse buttons for people who don't want to install your drivers. My experience with your drivers is awful and I know a lot of people who can't stand your drivers.

SO, please just a little prog for the buttons and NO MOUSE DRIVERS.

Actually the number 1 thing they should do is start making high quality optical gaming mice again......

Cool thread. I hope Logitech makes good use our feedback.

1) I am currently using Diamondback. Have used: MX300, MX500, MX510, MS IntelliMouse 1.1, DeathAdder, Copperhead

2) 1600dpi, 4/11 Windows, 500hz Polling

3) Currently using Steelpad QCK. I like good cloth pads because they are smooth without being "slippery". Also, its size is just right :)

4) Mostly finger tip

5) When aiming, I use only the wrist. When turning fast, I use arm.

6) Lift off less than 1cm. Never had problems with mouse misbehaving during lift off.

7) Currently, I prefer optical (infrared) because they can keep perfect control at faster speeds. If laser sensors catch up, then I would like it just as much as optical.

8) 500/1000hz polling and DPI switching without drivers is essential. Main reason I prefer the Diamondback over MX300 and MX510 is because its primary buttons are much more responsive: requires less pressure to activate and less travel distance. Finally, don't fold the mouse cord because it creates permanent kinks. Much better to wrap the cord in circles.

1) Logitech

2) Well because the blue G5 has lousy speed (move it too fast it doesnt go as far) I tend toward high sensitivity with it else I cannot turn. It's okay, the mouse works fine, just it could be improved and the MX518 was better imo but it broke (light died in it or something). Honestly I switch from high to low many times, not sure which I'll end up sticking to more. Mouse1 fire Mouse2 zoom mouse3 nothing cause it scrolls wheel accidnetly doesnt work too well mouse4 alternate +jump key mouse5 nade key (useful in holding down key combinations and still being able to nade)

3) Xtracpads ripper xtracpads.com, the big one :D black, it tracks well and is smooth

4) Exactly, the point, some grips enable different sensitivity use, and even with the same grip, a person's individual grip varies. Anywho, I tend toward palming the mouse, but get to finger use and forearm movement of mouse sometimes, sometimes I bend wrist more, it depends. However, one GOOD point to bring up, the laser aspect of G5 blue makes it so if the mouse is picked up a bit and repositioned it still tracks, so I have to tilt the mouse a bit when repositioning (if I play that way). Also, depending on grip, the mouse can have a tendency to slide, controlling it isnt easy at first imo. it is pintpoint accurate and sturdy... I use 1000hz poll rate to reduce input lag, tested with the USB report rate tool.

5) Yes, low sens is epic fail. I compared this mouse to my MX518 and G5 blue was worse, G9 didnt work well either. Low speed, I use low sens sometimes, and mouse goes a whol circle less??? come on :( cries. I can move my mouse real fast, and it especially becomes necessary when you make errors and have to adjust/adapt

6) yep, as mentioned with G5, I think its a whole half inch! but if I tilt mouse and liftI can keep right fingers till no matt for control, and its only half inch on one side.

7) ya know I really really preferred optical because of the sliding the laser causes, it is so accurate, and little friction, and somethin to do with physical build of the mouse, (weights or not), but it slides. I do like trackballs because they are sturdy and have that control surface resistance can provide on cloth, however, when moved fast one way, the ball keeps rolling >.<
MX500 was really a stellar optical mouse, bad speed, but wonderful tracking I think, my shotty aim used to be real good with it. The reviews of it don't lie. Sure G6 G9 better laser accurate aiming, hard to control usually due to slide effect - usual optical mouse kinda trippy on accuracy, skip around, not smooth... MX500 was awesome till it died

8) Thank you for makin great mice and the mice myself and others prefer for gaming, and listening to customer/consumer input. I'd like to add, the old Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse USB, the smaller design, lighter, red special edition 800dpi <-- this mouse was great to hold, make some G5 mice like that just for preference imo (also compatible with right or left).

THanks

nP~

Dear logitech,

This is what you need to do to be the end all of mice producers. Get whatever the hell Razer is using for their 3g optical sensor, specifically the new 1.28 prediction-less version. Keep the same shape and buttons but give it the typical logitech built quality, as Razer RAPES you at tracking quality, but build quality is another story. I use a Razer Deathadder, have been for 3 years, and will always. I have used a g5, it was the biggest wast of money, but it was built well, even though it tracked like a dead moose.

Razer Deathadder,
Razer Goliathus mousepad Control edition (big cloth pad, tracks great, good amound of friction)
36 cm to a 360
1000hz poling rate. 6 windows pointer sensitivity. cheese mouse fix 75hz, pointer precision off.

Personally I couldn't give a damn how many buttons or features a mouse has. All I want and need is for the head to blow when I pull my trigger.

I prefer optical as it somehow feels better. Lazer is skippy, sucks and raises the cost of your mouse like crazy! Not to mention, who the hell needs all that crazy high dpi? just put out a mouse with the least amount of prediction possible and that i can whip 5 meters a sec, and you have yourself a client.

Should you want detailed feedback from myself, or professional counter-strike players, I can provide. Contact me for an email.

Errr... havent you seen this thread started in 2006 and the last reply from logimgr was from Juli 2007?

I can't believe how long ago this was.

Same, feels like yesterday...

He plays CS - he's a little slow.

haha good pun! LOL i totally didnt notice that. it was right ont he side of the site! so i figured it was new... :S such fail -_-... well all this goes to show is that the shitty ass g9 was the culmination of their efforts. FAIL!

ESR CREATED THE G9

aha :D

i use the g9, and it will hunt your ass down !

And right when you find me, and flick to shoot me from behind, the g9, in typical logitech lazer fashion, will spaz out and cause you to miss. I will then turn around and dome you, and teabag you profusely.

no

and hey, in all fairness I wasnt the only one!!!

Can you pls ask someone in your company why you discontinue your best mice (mx300, g1, mx500)? MS still makes WMO's and IE3's.

unbelievable
this could have been my chance to find out why all my logitech mx 5xx mice died the same way

Wow, nice to see this thread still alive. Thanks for the continued feedback. I wish we could offer all things to all people. In response to Nzr0 (comment 290), I'll say that we do still make the G1 but only sell it in Asia. Sales in the other parts of the world were too low to warrant keeping the product on shelf.

i bought one of those asian g1 from ebay (they got that silver body instead of the blue one right?) And even tho the internals look 1-1 the same down to some numbers on the board, the sensor isn't the same as my old one i bought some years ago, it has some sort of accel and produces a totally different sensitivity at the same settings.

any comment on this ?:x

I've heard that the sensor in these G1's have 1000 CPI. And what do you mean "has some sort of accel?" The sensor has acceleration itself?

it has 800dpi and yes, even tho looking the internals look 1-1 the same as the old ones (even down to friggin model numbers) the korean g1 produces a different sens with the exact same settings and has some inbuilt accel which made it quite useless for me (apart from using it as spare parts).

Wait, just to clarify, this is the MX518-ish look G1 that we're talking about, right?

If so, then that's strange, because somebody else told me that it's sensor is fine; works just like it should, no acceleration problems or anything like that.