i really hope smth like that will be included.

Everything explaining Q3 movement to newbies is good and a must. Imo is a 50% part of what makes Quake interesting. I just hope Syncerror forces those guys to implement useful things in QZ.

Also, I hope instead of going all top secret about it, they start posting info here soon. You are going to fail, again, if you don't ask esreality community before releasing anything. Cmon, we know this is a Q3 remake, theres nothing about to be spoiled.

And the most important thing that still hasn't been discussed/confirmed by anyone: Will QZ be useful by itself thanks to its new features (that we still don't know), or it will need current CPMA, causing again a split in the community thanks to some retards using OSP, RA3, Threewave CTF, large etc? Please, avoid this this time, from day ONE, or failure is 100% insured. Syncerror, start talking about this before its too late, we need to stablish a standard.

P.D: Sorry for talking about this unrelated issue, but imo, this needs to be sorted asap. If anyone wants to create a separate thread about this, feel free to do it.

yes, considering how far in development it apparently is, there is a big lack of information about it :/

Well, if its supossed to be released in first quarter of 2008 aprox, it should be minimun half-done, considering its a remake of a game, ffs.

it shouldnt be modable ;)

I agree. I preefer they just get all the CPMA features+new ones in the "QZ core" so we can get rid of stupid mods. Another solution is ONLY allowing CPMA as the "official mod" (remember it does everything, including CA etc).

what if the cpma dev dont wanna be part of it

The key to success is to have everything into QZ core, that would be the best solution. If QZ allows to play with any current Q3 mod, the CPMA VQ3 vs OSP vs RA3 vs whatever will continue forever. Just get everyone in the same place ffs.

what if qz is filled with bugs that the cpma coders can't be arsed to deal with

What if what if.

what if god smoked cannabis..

dude, my mind if so fcuken gibbed.

it shouldnt do CA

THis looks a bit too nazi, perhaps you don't need to throw the player back to start, but rather just try to inform him and tell him when he's doing it wrong, you don't need to keep respawning him. It's nice to at least be allowed to try to do it regularly or so to see that it doesn't work.

yeah it'd suck bad if quakezero causes the next world war

Hopefully it's the UTers who end up in camps this time.

seems like good thing if that would be there... except i agree with voodoochopper that shouldnt keep respawning the noob :D

Haven't read the post, since Aquashark called me dirty name earlier.

the ideas presented are common sense.

be nice if they could include some demos from top players for most gamemodes so people who just dl it can check them out and see whats possible in the game (especially if they do have movement tutorial maps they could show someone good at it doing them)

a pub friendly mode like ca/ra3 is a must imo as most new players would try that over ffa or something like tdm/ctf

Yeah n1 i remembered tekken practice mode where you could see the combos buttons highlight when you where doing it right i mean it cant be that hard.
I mean there were some pretty weird coders like camping gaz that had some crazy huds twith all the information of speed angles gforces and weird shits :P

Defrag should definitly be a gamemode out of the box. Movement is such a big part of Quake. The more tutorials in Quake the better.

in some games there are more than one ways to move properly, like in cpma/warsow where you can either strafejump or bunnyhop, or combine the two. so MAKING someone press buttons is just making them learn certain paths on specific maps.. it might not actually increase their level of movement skill.

you totally missed the point

or you. it didnt take long for me to learn movement, and i didnt have a tutorial like this, you just progressed in movement as you played and learned how to move in different situations other than just a couple of preset race courses. yes im sure those trickrunners have far better movement than me, but that doesnt make them move around dm maps better or more tactical.

missed the point a second time bump-bump

or you

nah it was you

u

I feel terrible about all this! :-(

it was you :)

hey nerd go shoot your school up

why should i ?


and grow up.

the world doesnt understand you and vice versa

i think ur ego cant handle that u cant read properly / understand what u read.

no, its just that im annoyed that you people are so stuck to your own opinion that you cant possibly imagine that someone else has a different view on things.

for all you slowbrainers, the point i was trying to make is that we all learned to play through actually playing the game. i agree that this will make things a lot easier on newbs tho. happy now?

im not slowbrained, or stuck in my opinions.

i just stated you missed the point aquashark had and then u started attacking me :(

hahahah "stuck to your own opinion" says the one that started this discussion with "it didnt take long for me to learn movement, and i didnt have a tutorial like this"

100% fail for you.

Hes talking about the basics. Just like if some experienced mate told to you: "just press -a- while you jump while you turn your mouse 45º degree to the left, same for right with -d-". You obviously don't get it after weeks of training, but thats the idea. Instead of a mate, the computer helps you telling you what keys to press, when to jump, how much degrees you have to turn etc.

How are you supposed to choose between bunny hop or strafe jump or even combine them when you don't know what they are and how to do them ?

if quake zero is going to be as multiplayer focused as q3, then something like this should really be considered.. there's so many +forward/+back and crouch games nowdays i think the casual gamer needs to be re-introduced to what quake movement is all about from the start..

i remember the half-life tutorial where you got to learn how to jump and crouch below and through obstacles :) doing something like this properly with a nice appeal would complement the game alot..

and yes, QZ with cpma out of the box would set the game on the best possible path to success, imo..

I don't think q0 will focus on that, let them make the game a GOOD q3 remake kinda at least

who said about focusing on that?
that's just a tutorial model that will make people stay with the game.. rather than getting ass raped for a week and fleeing to the nearest CS server running fy_iceworld.

ok I reformulate:
they won't do that at all
:)
in my opinion it will be the most happy scenario if they will even be able to recreate q3 with the newer graphics and the features they were talking about
(just a little bit sleepy maybe, not using drugs atm :)

it has to be clear that this is not the most important thing for q0.
###################
most important is the quality, that all the corequalities from q3+mods get into the game! and these things have to work FIRST netcode, stability, anticheat, high fps count ..
###################

the idea is very good as long as the tutorial is selectable in menue and not forced upon players !
the unlock feature is not good, i want to click 1 button and play the game(like q3 skirmish or mp). and i know most people want that.
unlock features are only possible in a singleplayer mode

maybe they should copy the defrag tutorial part out of :
"Genesis - The Beginning Of"
and simply copy (buy) the defrag hud

here are 2 links to the movie, dunno 1 was not working for me but the movie should be on many download sites.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=485602530153341227
http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2170

hopefully an intro like that wont be included

"am drunk heehheheh or hungover plzz"

the unlock system is only for the tutorial which is not mandatory.. DOH

man.. what a bunch of retarded replies..

you think i only said it as a reply, but there are readers out there who are new and have sometimes not as much gamingbackround as you. so sometimes its better to explain things and make things 100percent clear.

[female computer voice]

'hello noob.

today you are going to learn to strafe jump. by adding sideways velocity to your forward momentum you can gain velocity due to small rounding errors in the code'

[/end]

like instead of step through the portal to begin you can have a whole series of maps to complete then bots to race and stuff. then you will be allowed on the servers as its all done like battle net ladders?


but i think it's wishful thinking. most noobs will give up after getting annihilated at the hands of one of us :(((

matchmaking system.

It should be something like ‘Worms Armageddon’, which had tutorials and training for all the different weapons as well as movement. Lets remember that essentially the single player of ‘Quake 3’ was a training mode for deathmatch, and it required you to complete maps to unlock further sections while also attaining achievements such as ‘frags’ and ‘perfects’. This was addictive and at least gave players some level of understanding before joining online games to be destroyed by real players.

This should be repeated in Quake Zero but with more advanced bots that can scale up to actually offer a challenge to skilled players. Much like CPMA bots they should have the ability to strafe jump around the map and use all the movement skills and item control tactics. There should also be campaigns for TDM, CTF and 1v1 as well as standard FFA DM much like 'Unreal Tournament' supplied us with 8 odd years ago.

In my mind this is one of the critical elements that needs to be included if you want to grow a new user base in Quake. Simply reproducing Quake 3 will of course get some new people but most will not stay for long when all they do is get totally annihilated with no understanding as to why it is happening or how they can improve.

Training should go into real depth even including tutorials and practice on timing items and running control of maps. Achievements can be handed out for the completion of each task with perhaps a score that can be publicly viewed on a player’s profile, and gives them a target to complete the task at a harder level or for a higher score. Even accuracy statistics from every game they play could be logged on their profile and advice could automatically be given as to which weapons they need to improve their accuracy with or which items they should focus on getting more on which maps. Perhaps even use something similar to the heat maps discussed not so long ago to show players which parts of the maps are most important/best avoided when weak/or to be exploited when stacked. Spawn killing is actually a tactical element of the game and this could be trained as well.

The truth is every little detail needs to be covered to support new players and keep them playing. These are simple ideas that I am sure most of us have had before that really would help the game grow its player base significantly. I am of the mindset that there is no real rush for Quake Zero and so there is no excuse for not having these kinds of elements included and working from day one. I would happily accept a large increase in the games development time to see a much more refined end product that would actually stand more chance of being a success with new players, then one which fails to deliver on day one and although improves over time will have missed its massive day one surge.

I dont like that idea. Forcing someone to move through doing a certain button (or mouse) sequence doesnt sound good at all.
When I play quake I want to be able to move however I want. This does not mean the movement has to be CPMA like, but it should definately not be anything like the fighter games where you have to push 9 buttons in a row for a single move.

Using 'no limitation' as a limitation is the way to go in my oppinion.

you missed the point

You wrote:

"when the player crosses the start line, a visual indicator shows the correct button sequence and mouse movements you should perform in order to advance."

"also a defrag-like pre-recorded ghost would show you how to complete the map."

My point was similar to the old saying about either giving someone a fish or teaching someone how to fish.
That is, I would rather have a tutorial which perhaps shows a a move/trick of somekind. And then explains the idea beind such a move. Which in turn will help the player come up with new moves and ideas for how to move around the map.

The kind of movement I've always supported is one that that isnt too strict. And telling someone "you must perform this move in this way" limits movement. Instead I would preferre a tutorial that says "in order to get from this point A to point B, you can either do X, Y or Z. Maybe even a little bit of both.

When you play Guitarhero, there is no different way to play the songs. You cant play "Cherry Pie" in a different way in order to succeed, you MUST play it the way whoever implemented the song intended.

I'd rather have a game that is sort of free flowing. So, my philosophy is that the tutorial is a reflection of that.

so how many ways are there to get across a gap thats big enough to not just simply jump over it but needs a strafejump? (without any weapons.)

I see this tutorial as a menu option you _can_ use but dont have to. Its just to learn about the real BASICS of the game like strafejumping. (or item timing/spawn prediction/opponent prediction) A player that starts up q3 for the first time has probably never even heard of that and doesnt know how it works or what it means. You cant expect anyone to come up with new jumps/moves if they dont even know the basics.

from my post: as for the Hard part of the tutorial the player has to do the medium maps without any visual aid. after doing so another set of harder maps will unlock.

as in the player will figure out new ways how to end the maps without having to move strictly like in the Easy phase (which is for grasping basic movement types FFS).

also a record system would be good to motivate the player in trying new faster aproaches on his own.

when you're a n00b at math you memorize the basic operations without having to know how they fit in the big picture.. that is just the start.

+ what noctis said

. <-- thats the point of the thread

you are here --> .

See above response.

nice :D

very true there should be some type of tutorial, tell id plz.

would be good to have things like defrag ra3 cpma all under one roof.

rather not have ra3 tbh

Well you don't have to play it. But lots do or did, don't know which.

It must be included. Will attract newbies.

its only a menuepoint for you then, nothing more you have to withstand. not really much effort, is it? :p
of course the comunities should all have their own forum. not that ra3, defrag, 1on1, ctf players get all mixed and flame at eachother.
they are right, defrag and ra3 should be included.

q3 one game to rule them all.

I think just having a general article with training maps listed for certain things is good enough.

The movement itself is pretty cerebral so spoon-feeding someone the movement maybe possibly worthless. If they're not inclined enough to get it with hands-on experience and brief explanation than they probably won't get it with complex, layered tutorials.

Best way to train is simplicity.

Step 1) Learn common strafe jump and strafe beats.
Step 2) Play
Step 3) Learn more as you go

As far as map or mod specific movements, well, those go without saying as requiring tutorials. And I think Shaun (look for him on #cpma.na on Quakenet) is doing an awesome job compiling a library of tutorials for map specifics and mod specifics for CPMA.

And really the last thing you want to do is shove a huge stack of literature and training regimes in front of a noobie who only wants to play, to frag and get fragged. If they get into the game with some friends they'll search out the movement on their own, there's already tons of great articles out there.

Casual gamers play like 3 hours a week, do you really think they will bother with hours of tutorial to learn how to jump around the map ? LOL !

You guyz really live in an utopia.

the tutorial is divided in easy/medium/hard and it isn't mandatory to complete in any way.

in case someone is braindead enough and not able to finish the "easy" section, that's ok really.. you can have him in your gorgeous UT3 community. we'll just keep the decent players.

also most super-n00bs play offline with bots.. this should provide a good starting point for those who are resilient to jump straight ahead in the online fray.

people through this tutorial will also realize how much more substance the Quake series has and how much more rewarding it is to play it and evolve. for anyone with a functional brain there should be no way back to shitty watered down games..

So QZ basically aims at what wsw aimed with like 10% more with that tutorial.

My point is not to spit on what ever comes out from Id Software studios but is about the no-future of fastpaced games. People (and I can easily undestand why they do) prefer simple games like BF, CS or CoD because they can kill someone at their very first try of the game. They start having fun without any efforts from themselves.

So if you do believe QZ is not about having a big community, why don't you stay on Q3 if the game suits perfectly well to your style ?

No need to make a new game if it has to be everything like Q3 (even its community).

Remember matchmaking?

mastering the movements takes time
but understanding how to do them (forward key + strafe key + turn mouse same way then jump : OMG SO HARD) takes 30 sec

and yes, mister newbie will like to have a tutorial about it, but moreover and for the first time in a quake game he will loooooooove to officialy heard about these movements instead of strangely being owned by a class of gamers who seem to have an unfair mysterical advantage
wtf are you on ?

MDK tutorials! That shit f**in owned back in the 90's :D

Shiny entertainment was top notch

The tut could also handle certain situations of "real" maps.

This shows the user the useful of the movement and it's also good for a change from the normal defrag tut maps.

Nice idea, too bad most veterans who obviously after 5+ years of playing can move at blazing speeds are posting extremely retarded replies, forgetting the importance of learning strafejumping if we want noobs to enjoy the game. And oh boy we need noobs, we really need them.