I forgot, I am going to use it with QPad CT white.

I heard it performs well on a really wast spectrum of different surfaces. Other than, I can only tell you that Razer advertises it with 0.06 mm lift-off-distance, which is, I personally think, a very important feature. Also, Razer states it - in contrary to current lasermice - copes with "fast" movements: around 1,5 m/s.
It's definitely not looking to be the next random shit laser garbage, but might not be what you're looking for, either. It's still a lasermouse and if you're using a low sensitivity, it might not satisfy you.

This is the deal breaker, can it cope with fast movements? The G5 was smooth but freaked out easily, I hope the Lachesis performs at least as well as the Deathadder.

of course not.

Just received a bit mangled package with the Lachesis mouse inside. Thankfully the critter was fine.

First impressions? It looks damn sexeh, just like the Deathadder. Well, some people didn't like the looks of DA, but I guess it's a matter of preference. The top of the mouse is covered with the same rubbery material Razer uses on Viper/Krait/DB/CH buttons etc. The sides of the mouse are made of glossy plastic, which I guess isn't so bad if your hands don't sweat too much. Also, all the extra side buttons are covered with the antislip/rubberlike layer. The main buttons are a bit harder to click than the Krait's, but I guess that's because they're new. Mousewheel works great, just like in all the other Razer mice. The rest you can see in the pix (links below).

I'm guessing what most of your are curious about is how the laser used in Lachesis performs. I've tested the mouse on QPad CT (black). I lowered the sensitivity in Windows to absolute minimum (@2000dpi, 1kHz, it defaults to 1500) and moved the mouse across the whole pad as fast as I could, but couldn't make it skip. I don't know whether it's as good DA/MX518 etc., but what I do know is that all the previous laser mice I've had the (dis)pleasure of testing on my pad skipped like crazy -- G3/G5/CH I could easily make skip by making fast movements (they sometimes even skipped ingame when doing flickshots etc.), and Fatal1ty 2020 was totally unplayable, even though I use med-high sens. I didn't notice any negative acceleration, but I guess it requires a bit more thourough testing which I'm going to try and do later.

Ok, now for the pictures, sorry for so-so quality :<.

- Razer Lachesis
- Lachesis and and my old trusty Krait #1
- Lachesis and Krait #2
- Lachesis and Krait #3
- Drivers #1
- Drivers #2
- Drivers #3

Thanks a lot : ) I ordered it few hours ago, I will try to write something about it tomorrow :-)

"The sides of the mouse are made of glossy plastic"

I don't understand this, I mean rubberized for grip in all the places you don't hold it...

i hold my mouse on the side....

all the rubberized grip has dissappeared from that spot on my ie 3.0 tho...

What is so hard to understand here, seriously?

The kind of rubber used e.g. on the DA gives no grip at all. It is the glossy plastic on the sides that gives grip! If there were also that shitty rubber, you would lose any stable grip.

Don't get fooled by marketing bullshit about rubber and grip.


CMY

The bigger issue is that this mouse is designed to be palmed, all fingers facing straight up/down, maybe clawing the index and ring. I could not comfortably hold the Lachesis by putting thumb and pinky around the sides. For one thing, I'd be hitting the thumb buttons on boths sides.

Maybe I'd like the shape better if I could come down with a supported arm on it, say with a mouse pad extender off my desk, but basically, the hump in back bends my wrist up, then my fingers down again.

No thanks. RSI!

What's hard to understand is why they put such a bad grip material on the most important part of the mouse, quite a lot of DA users seem to be considering putting something on there to improve the grip.

I am referring to this part of your post:

"I don't understand this, I mean rubberized for grip in all the places you don't hold it..."


You obviously complain about the absence of rubber on the sides, and I told you that it is this very rubber that offers no grip whatsoever!

There are some people who even "mistreated" their DA by removing all the useless soft rubber to get a glossy shell, which, paradoxically(?), gives a lot more grip (just look at old ball mice from Microsoft and Logitech, they were glossy mice, but gave perfect grip).

Just my 2 cents ;-)


CMY

Can you place your hand over it to see how you hold it.
I cannot seem to see a place for the thumb and the ring finger :s

is the Middle mouse button easy (soft) to press? I mean, as soft as it is to press the left or right mouse button.

It's actually much easier to press, maybe even a bit too easy. It barely makes any sound when clicked. Really, you don't have to worry about that. As far as mousewheels go, Razer mice pwn.

I just got one today as well. Now I've tried the Lachesis, DeathAdder, MS Sidewinder, and my new mainstay, the G9.

My first observations of the Lachesis--

1) the thing doesn't sit stable on the mousepad. It's not a good feeling, to move the mouse and feel the thing rocking back and forth. This may matter more to me, as I use fairly high sens and don't play CS or the ilk, so sometimes the mouse bumping about throws off my movements.

However, this should be stupidly easy to correct. Get on it, Razer!

2) related to 1), the mousepads are small and are audibly rough across the pad (the Sidewinder pads are too, btw). Hardly "zero-accoustic", especially using Razer's own Exactmat. I think this had to do with Razer's philosophy of using less surface area, making movement as quick as possible . And typical of Razer, the mouse is really quick to handle. But when you compare it to the G9, the smoothness of mouse against pad is absolutely inferior. Then again, the G9 is the best I have ever tried in that respect. Just absolutely butter on the pad...

In other thoughts, if you like a cloth pad, the Razer should be better than G9 because of said surface area. G9, like G5, has A LOT of surface against the pad.

3) more typical Razer-- the shape is very love or hate. It should be very versatile for many different players, it's a palmer than can be clawed. I just don't know if I really care for it. It definitely wasn't as nice as the Adder. Again, for me in terms of shape, it loses big to the G9. Go figure, I'm 6' 4" and have big-assed hands, and I like the smaller mouse better.

BTW, Logi is definitely on to something with the G9 shape. I didn't like the look either at first, which between that and laser, was what everybody bitched about-- but ultimately, it doesn't matter. That fucking thing fits my hand great.

4) The Adder's buttons were touchy, almost too much so, had to get used to them. If anyone is expecting the same from the Lachesis, don't. These buttons take more effort and have longer travel than the Adder, more so than the G9 as well, which is slightly more effort than the Adder.

5) The thumb buttons are placed typically Razer-ridiculous. On the plus side, they are impossible to depress accidently unless you have a fucking seizure and your hand wigs out or something. The trouble is, they are more difficult to reach when you need to reach them, especially the front (which I don't use anyway). The G9 and Sidewinder have much better thumb button placements, at least for my hand.

6) The middle mouse button is better to use as a button than Logi's G9 (again, I use the wheel as a zoom, but not as a button). However, the wheel is not as nice as the G9, and I can use both thumb button easily on the G9 as well, if I need an extra button for some reason.

7) The software on the Lachesis is decidedly inferior to Setpoint for the G9, which lets you customize the hell out the mouse, and use windows drivers for movement.

With Lachesis, you can have 32 different dpi settings. However, I couldn't seem to get the bar to 800, it either stopped at 750 or 875, something like that. That might be just my mistake. But Grrr.

There is also no visible way to know what dpi you're at. Since I mostly stay at 800 dpi, this is no big deal. However, both G9 and Sidewinder are much better at telling you what dpi the mouse is currently set at.

8) It glows white. Prettty.

9) I didn't lower my sens down to obcene ranges, but the the sensor seems to track very well. Within a short period of time, I was making some sick rails with this mouse, tracking was very good in general for me. With Razer's claims about acceleration, this may be indeed the first good laser for the low sens player.

Final analysis-- at least on technical terms, the Lachesis might have a winner in that sensor for the low sens player. In terms of everything else, for me, the G9 is superior in every single way possible. Everybody's a little different, your mileage may vary. But I gotta tell you, that new ugly Logi is real, real good.

Hey Love-Nub , would you mind to check if those new Laser Mouses have the "Prediction Thing" said on the FragYou Blog?


Feature: Prediction and correction of movement. Let’s say you’re trying to make a horizontal movement. Of course your hand isn’t 100% steady, so your line will have slight diversions and wouldn’t be completely straight. Back in the day, the manufacturers of mouse sensors decided to include a feature in the optical sensors of their mice, that would help people draw straight lines. It would “remove” the small diversions, if the diversion was less than a certain angle and instead just draw a perfectly straight line. The funny thing is: This feature has never been marketed, though it has been in countless mice over the past years. Can you guess why?

Problem: Prediction cost you precision. Period. If your mouse is trying to predict your movements, instead of just performing the movements you are actually doing, your precision is obviously degraded. If you want to make a movement that is almost, but not quite, a straight line (meaning you want to move a bit up and like half a screen to the right for example) then your movement will be altered. This function of sensors kicks in pretty fast and the worst part: in most sensors you can’t even disable it.




Since they changed a lot the "Sensor Technology" on the new mouses , I thought that maybe they removed it on some mouses ;O.

I'll try it in paint tonight when I get home with both mice, apparently, you can see it when you draw lines.

Well, I really can't tell just by drawing in paint.. I would like to know of a way to test correctly for this prediction, Sujoy or anybody else, any ideas?

That said, I've read other things mentioning that if you took away that interpolation/prediction, most mice would stop tracking correctly at much lower speeds.

In other news, I did a little low sens testing in Q3 using 400 dpi and low sens with both the Lachesis and G9, about 26cm for 360 (had to break out the old full size DKT pad, and chuck that wrist rest while I'm at it, lol).

I'm a strong dude, but I did manage to tire out my arm doing this. I can throw 16 lb bowling balls for 30 games, keep in mind, and I throw the ball pretty hard as well, over 20 mph if I want to. But 26 cm per 360 is hard fucking work for Q3. I made sure to FFA with a lot of bots on 3box4 just to make sure I had to constantly turn quickly, not 1v1.

The fact of the matter is, maybe my 35 years are too slow or something, but I couldn't get either the G9 or Lachesis to skip on either the DKT or ExactMat. Either one. And believe me, I tried to be as spastic as possible.

Maybe there's some special "swiping school" I can sign up for online. If I have to play CS or Battlefield to learn how to make a mouse skip, I say pass. Sujoy's neat setup is the final word on this.

In other news, I continue to hate the Lachesis shape. My arm gets much more tired having to hold that thing, the same with all Razer mice.

I guess for me, the Razer shapes are kind of like sport cars-- I sell cars, and have sold a lot of vettes, etc. Guys love the idea of the 505 hp Z06. But when they have a choice of taking the Vette out on long trips, or their E Class Benz, guess what, they take the Benz, they're more comfortable.

The G9 is more like the Benz, is my point. I'll take comfort rather than trying to make something work that doesn't for me.

hmm, nice car comparison there, you may have sold me on the G9 but will i get free aircon?

Hmm , from what I know , most people can't do horizontal lines / vertical lines without some curves , even if they "try" many times , so if prediction is on , you would easily do a "perfect line" with few tries , while on a prediction off mouse it would make some curves.


ty for doing that ;].

To make a mouse skip you don't have to spaz left and right or in circles. In fact neither is ideal because you don't hit as high of absolute speed for your effort.

You just have to put the mouse to one side of the pad, probably the far left side and with all your force explode to the right. If you go quickly enough and accelerate fast enough the mouse will flip out. That is a sure fire way of testing a pad or mouse for malfunction performance.

The fact is, 26cm/360 is NOT a low sensitivity at all for CSS or Battlefield like games. 60cm is more like average. I use around 55 in UT3. So if you could imagine how fast I must move to play effectively in a game much faster than source with a sensitivity about the same. Anyways I can make ANY mouse skip, and laser mice are for the most part effortless to make do so. It's just about explosive arm power. It's hard to understand low sensitivity if you're used to not moving your arm while playing, it's like a whole different ballgame.

But thanks for the review, I'm sure the mouse is decent for medium sensitivity players but being laser I think ultra low sens players ought to stay away. Even my DeathAdder can skip on an Everglide Titan which is one of the best pads for it. But it's sufficiently high I never reach it in-game. I noticed the skipping got worse in the later firmware versions. So when my last DA blew itself up, and I got a new one free and it had firmware 1.10 I just kept it on this.

Damn kid, 60cm per 360 huh?

Well, in a way I understand it. Low sens, from what I've seen, is better under stress. More margin for error.

It certainly isn't good up close in UT3 though. You're right, if you get used to it can make hitscan weapons very easy to use because there is that much more leeway. In UT2004 I went in small increments and used the highest sensitivity I could before my aim dropped off starting from something clearly way too low and moving up has always worked great for me.

I think you're right about this. I did a little experiment today. At work, I noticed my boss had a black 1.1a. He's pretty cool, so I asked him if I can borrow it, giving him the logi wheel mouse off my desk.

I came home, set the mouse up at 1000 hz and broke out the OG DKT large everglide, and played around in Q3.

The 1.1a is hella quick, I'll tell you that. I had a 3.0 back in the day, but knew nothing about running USB ports at faster frequency's, etc. Very light, no frills, no thumb buttons, etc. With my 6.75 sens at 400 dpi, this basically halved my q3 sens, about 25 cm per 360. The mouse played very well.

The G9 was it's equal at 400 dpi, a bit better for me shape-wise, I found, but is much heavier. It was ok at 25 cm per 360, but much more than that, I can see how the weight of the G9 could get in the way. At any rate, I can see why the low sens player would want a lighter mouse like the 1.1a.

I could see why the pros prefer mice like 1.1a and explorer 3.0, Logi MX500/510/518, as opposed to anything else, most notably Razer. All you have to do is up the hz to 500 or 1000 and you've got yourself a great mouse. No muss, no fuss. Razers tend to need a lot of TLC, and Razer has become very prone to shipping product that's not quite ready, and updating firmware afterwards. Pros don't want to screw with that kind of dumb stuff.

If you need to switch DPI, and like macros/profiles etc, the new mice are improvements. Also, the ability for the G9, Lachesis, and Ikari (although we'll see that when it gets here) to work without drivers, and not need overclocking of the USB port, are definitely benefits.

I was impressed with the fact that I still was unable to get the G9 to flip out, and there didn't seem to be any inherent latency/glitchiness of that laser vs. the 1.1a. I know what lasers can be like, I've tried G5, Copperhead, and Habu. The G9 doesn't feel like that at all.

The lasers have come a long way. With the onboard memory, and extra stuff, a lot of the newer mice just weigh more. I think that's the biggest downfall to them. That, and for the player who's great with their current 400 dpi optical, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Some professional players buy a new mouse before every big event to have the right "feel" so it helps to be buying $15 WMO's instead of $90 dollar Lachesises or whatever. The light weight is an important factor too. All weight does is slow you down hurting your control. The WMO makes some compromises to ergonomics to be ambidextrous but it is still damn good to grip since it lets you place the ring finger on the right side.

I'd really like to see some size comparisons between the Lachesis and an MX518/Diamondback/DeathAdder, preferably with someone actually holding the mice to get a sense of the grip style too.

I would say the Lachesis is bigger than the Adder, the back of the mouse is longer and more pronounced, gets a hold of your palm a little bit better.

Grip style-- feels a bit like the Copperhead to me, but more surface area than Copperhead. My hand can sit basically on top, my thumb tucked above the thumb buttons. Lot of mouse to grab onto.

I'm going to play around with it some more tonight, I haven't given the Lachesis that much of a chance. To me the G9 feels more natural as a whole.

Yeah , its probably like someone said here on ESR :

"G9 Feedback :

If you can get used to the wideness of the body it will feel good. The buttons are great. But once you do get used to it, every other mouse will feel very odd, since the g9 is very brick-like, while other mice tend to be like of a bio-design shape"

that was me :P

Hrm, my digital camera seems to be mia. There's other pictures online.

The quickest way to sum it up is this. as Lunatic said, Razer is three fingers up top, the Lachesis also rises up pretty far to meet the palm. It's more of a palmer, nothing to hold onto on the sides. That shape is uncomfortable for me, because as the the Lachesis is ambidexterous, it doesn't allow my arm to tilt to the pinky side.

A recipe for repetitive stress injury IMHO.

G9 wants you to put thumb low and rest on the provided rest (on Wide Load, thumb tucks into a recess on precision), pinky on the other side. You can claw it if you want up top and get great side control from thumb and pinky. More comfortable to me.

Normally, I wouldnt get one of Razer`s first batches... but I couldnt help myself with the Lachesis. Mostly because of the new laser sensor, but also because its a symetrical design (i`m a lefty).

Now I got one, I dont have the time to use it right away ^^. But I`ll post my thoughts when I get there. First impressions are good, except for the "forced to use three fingers on top - shape". You`re way less forced to hold it that way than the copperhead, but still. I want to keep my middle- and index finger on the two main buttons! (ringfinger on the side with my pinky).

same here man

Thanks for your Lachesis and G9 review. After reading here and there I decided to order the G9 from NewEgg which BTW priced dropped from $89 to $69

Thanks for your inputs...

I'll stay away from first generation Lachesis until drivers or hardware mature.

Great price on the G9. Hope you got to at least check one out up close before you bought it.

Hrm, interesting stuff at www.razerblueprints.net about Lachesis.

Random skips and driver issues. I thought the random skips were the result of the thing rocking a little bit. Not the case, apparently.

d. The movement reported by the Lachesis to the PC can be as high as 256.000cps per X/Y axis, which makes half a million cps for the resulting vector cursor speed, each and every single count produced by the 3G laser sensor at any resolution.

So, in effect, there are two sensors in the Lachesis, each sensor generates its own mouse movement data. Contrast this with the second generation of lasers, where only one sensor is used to compute both X and Y displacement in speed, resulting in some inevitable optimizations and errors for movements in specific directions.

There is no compromise on the Y axis simply to provide better performance on the X axis, and vice versa. There’s no artificial smoothing of the lines you draw, or cheats to “interpret” your hand movements into what we think is “right”, as X and Y data are provided independently of each other.


;].

LoLz!!!

The Razerguy Blog Article on Razer 3G Laser looked like an "attack" to the Steelseries Statements about Ikari...

http://blog.razerzone.com/




Oh yeah , Love-Nub , I replied you about the "Prediction Thing" , almost no one can do straight lines easily , so just try to draw a straight line to the left or to the right , on a few tries you should have the answer , if a "almost perfect" Line appears then there is Prediction , if it keeps going up and down then there is No Prediction.



Going to get my MX518 and my 3.0 Explorer and post a Comparison here :

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4471/predictionfn3.jpg

It was very easy to do a Straight Line on an MX 518 , but its hard to do on a IE 3.0 , its hard for me to do a Straight Line on a Real Life Pen , so you can see who has prediction and who doesn't :P.

Thanks pardner, I'll give that a run with both mice tonight.

thats prolly the best comparison review i have ever seen. i love you <3

Did you make the lines at slow or high speed? Is it any different?

I made the Lines Fast , not as Fast as I could , but on a Fast Speed...

I used nearly the same speed on both mouses.

It was very strange because Logitech did Straight Lines very easily even on Fast Speed , but the IE 3.0 ( which supposedly doesn't have prediction ) was almost impossible to do Straight Lines.


Slowing the Speed worsened the "Straight Lines" , now I can't do a Slow Straight Line even when using a Logitech MX 518 :P.



Also I tried to use "tools" to help to draw straight lines and I couldn't draw a "straight line" on IE 3.0 , I don't know if its because of the Shape of the Mouse or if its because the Sensor is "buggy". But the very probably thing is that its because of the Shape of the Mouse ;/...

it's not the shape, intellimouse optical 1.1 and WMO have the same "feature"

Lol, yeah its an attack, so what?
Steel attacked first XD
Razer claims theres no prediction/correction,
so why don't you lachesis owners try it out in paint?
Simple, just try to draw straight lines and compare it to a ime 3.0~

I'll be interested to see what the Ikari does when it comes out. From what I understand technically, if they don't have prediction/interpolation, unless there's something unique to the sensor/hardware, it will lose tracking quickly. It sounds like they're trying something different.

Prediction only works when the mouse is moved in certain angles at certain speeds.
It shouldn't have any effect on ips

Yes it does, its used to stabalise the mice at high speed
`Love-Nub, why don't you draw some line in paint for us to see
and post it in imageshack?
We'll be interested to know if theres prediction in the lachesis!
For example if you look at avengers pic theres no precdiction in the ime 3.0~

Here ya go. Besides the fact that I can't draw a straight line, hope this is useful.

Lachesis and G9

So the New Laser Mouses don't have Prediction things ;]... Thats very NIIIIIIIIIIIICEEEEEEEEEEE ;]...

That G1 is Optical right?

Oh yeah ty ;]...

Lachisis has less tracking errors than the G9 can you confirm you were testing both on their native resolution??

4000dpi and 3200?

If the lachesis is at 4000 drawing lines that smooth it has some seriously powerful hardware in it.

Seriously more than useful for humans, but impressive nonetheless.

yeah, that was at 4000 dpi. I'm pretty sure... fuck, don't tell me I have to hook it back up and check. I never want to hook that fucking thing up again, I've decided I hate that mouse.

well.. Logitech G1 is the best mouse i've ever used..

logitech G1 lines

speaks for itself.. :P

And I really dont thing it has any prediction..

G1 is nice, depending on your sensitivity. I still love my MX510.

I was thinking about how opticals where when they first came out, and how far mice have come. Way back, when Q3 was released, I switched to the first MS Intellimouse Explorer. IIf you did anything took quickly with that mouse, you ended up looking at the ceiling, spinning for 1 1/2 - 2 seconds! I learned to deal with it, though.

My testing between the two mice is done. I think the Lachesis has a strong, precise sensor, but for me the G9 sensors feels just about as good, and is tons more comfortable.

lol, the G1 has prediction up the wazoo that is how you draw the lines so straight.

It's the same sensor as MX510 I have one of them and they are very strongly magnetized to making straight horizontal or straight vertical lines. That is the prediction feature in them. It's a slight hinderance to accuracy imo.

hmm.. maybe it is.. :( but what mouse have the same shape with no prediction, and is not a laser mouse (thinking of G3)

None so you should keep using it and ignore the whole stir about prediction. : )

You're an idiot if you think the mouse doesn't have prediction.

cant you read? or are you just stupid?

but you clearly state you really dont thing the mouse has prediction...

but i clearly approved Antigen07's post?? what's wrong with you ppl??! omfg..

Last time I checked "maybe it is" is not "clearly approved"

last time i checked "maybe it is", is not "you clearly state you really dont think"...

You obviously weren't cognizant enough to realise that it had prediction in the first place.

that was not the point?
you referred to my response, not my original post.. moron.. I've got corrected/informed that it had prediction, and then I applied.. I's not legal to make mistakes or something before someone just HAS to drag you down to their level..

Lol thX love!
The new razer doesn't have it!!!!!!!
Gosh im so anxious to get it now...
Too bad i'm having a major exam now.... :-(

DeathAdder doesnt have it either.

u sure?
http://img3.imagebanana.com/img/ua5ng6r/pre.GIF

Yeah sorry I tested again it has it but I need to move the mouse fast to notice it otherwise my own movements and sensor errors make the lines not straight.

It's much weaker than MX500

What's the resolution of the image you're painting on to? DA/Lach/MX500 all give perfectly straight lines if you draw carefully enough, This straight line BS is such a gamer fad, like comparing ring and first finger length,

1280x960

I would have to agree, once Steelseries mentioned prediction people got all excited.

I went back and forth between a WMO and MX mice and it was pretty apparent the difference. But the actual number of realistic situations for which it's an in-game hindrance is small. Afterall I was fine for years with an MX500.

Basically prediction only costs you accuracy if you shoot alot before lining up a shot. Beginner players under pressure against someone with quicker reactions (or a CRT) tend to aim rapidly at someone and just click as soon as they are nearby and hitting very inconsistently...

If you get screwed by the prediction and the mouse moves only horizontal when you needed to aim up or down a little bit and you did but the mouse ignored it, then prediction wrecked your flick shot.

If you aim carefully and have the above situation you'd see you're higher/lower than what was expected then adjust and shoot. That way prediction didn't cost any accuracy only a tad of speed.

It's best to have a mouse without it, but it's hardly a crucial factor to consider. Comfort, Comfort and Comfort come first then probably followed by resistance against skipping, low weight, high polling rate and price.

One thing that would seem to me with any kind of prediction, whether it be on the software side or firmware/sensor, would be that it would have to add a little latency in order to perform calculations. This number may be very small, but it would have to be there.

Every little bit counts.

Yeah but the time required to calculate it has to be tiny.

My guess is all it does is look at the movement vector each tick of the mouse. If it sees -10x1 then it just clips that to -10x0 if it sees 2x30 it might clip it to 0x30, 45x-4 to 45x0 ect.. How large the ratio between the movements needs to be before it clips the least significant axis would depend on the sensor.

The above idea also makes me think that sampling a mouse at a higher polling rate could reduce the amount it predicts. For example moving 1000 pixels to the left in .5 second. that's an average displacement of 16 pixels each update on a 125hz mouse (so any small up/down movements might be clipped off) but at 1000hz it's just 2 pixels displacement each update (so it likely wouldn't filter any y-axis movements out)

That could explain why my Deathadder at 500hz appears to have no prediction at low speeds (small displacements each update) but if moved quickly it will draw very straight lines along an axis as it probably starts predicting.

If I remember correctly, the prediction site was discussed on this site many years ago. However I agree with you that not having prediction is overrated. Once you get used the shape and tracking specifics of a mouse your brain will make the needed adjustments and motions to aim. Getting 100% used to a mouse takes months, even if you can get to around 90% in a week. Raising the "prediction issue" seems more like a way to create buzz about the steelseries mice than wanting to educate the public. After all it is not something that suddenly appeared, it was discussed like 3-5 years ago on some forums.

Erm just noticed, the DPi your testing on it is quite high, why dont you tune it down and try to draw straighter ones?
Only vertical and horizontal line thou~
Thx alot!

Well, I'm stuck here at work until 9pm CST, so hold your horsies, I'll get to it at 400 dpi.

Thx buddy~
Dont try to draw too fast, just draw it slowly and try to make it as straight as possible~

Yeah, I'll try to take my time, use magnifying glass, and take my Parkinson's medication beforehand.

Drawing lines at 3200-4000 dpi is no muthafuckin' joke, we'll see how 400 turns out.

And, 400 dpi

Well, theres no correction or what so ever in it, so good to hear it!
Thx brother~
Btw, whats the DPi range that we can use?
Minimum to Maximum~

400 was good, so was 2000, just gotta get the settings right, with both mice.

Started to experience some negative accel with the G9 at 3200, hadn't played with Lachesis at higher settings tho.

Just got this mouse, about to try playing, here's the first few minutes impression:

Thumb buttons/area - what were they thinking? I don't have a midget thumb, it doesn't fit in the tiny little indent under the buttons so I can only assume you're supposed to put the thumb on the little raised area by the buttons, not good for finger and thumb mouse control.

The narrow back area feels better than the slightly too wide rear of the Death Adder but again there's a problem, the mouse feels like a 3 wheeled car, the back isn't very stable compared with a 4 wheeler like the Death Adder. I know the analogy sounds silly but that's how it feels, the Lachesis feels far too easy to tip.

And for some reason it wont do 1000 Hz yet, it seems to only want to do 500 Hz. I suspect this will sort itself out. - Sorted itself out for no obvious reason.

Erf wtf - I wasn't even aware it was competely mirrored, the mirrored thumb buttons also suck, where the hell am I supposed to hold this thing without pressing buttons? Time for the Socrates/Stermy grip I guess.

Feet - the bottom of the mouse causes friction with the mouse mat with the feet this came with, DA with basic feet is much smoother, I think the Lachesis will require Hyperglidez.

So having played - the smoothness and accuracy is really impressive, I think for CS or something like that it'd be a good mouse. It's still a laser mouse though and is unusable for low sens play, it gives no signal when you do a fast move to rocket jump and has that strange feel you get when you can't trust the mouse. It may be my pad (Steel Series Qck+ black cloth) but frankly that's what a lot of gaming pads are like, if laser gaming mice can't deal with it then they're not really gaming mice. Going back to the Death Adder until they bring out a firmware update, this is just the G5 mark 2.

The narrow back area feels better than the slightly too wide rear of the Death Adder but again there's a problem, the mouse feels like a 3 wheeled car, the back isn't very stable compared with a 4 wheeler like the Death Adder. I know the analogy sounds silly but that's how it feels, the Lachesis feels far too easy to tip.

It does since DA is a 3 wheeler as well and a bit unstable if you tip it towards the right side. :)

And for some reason it wont do 1000 Hz yet, it seems to only want to do 500 Hz. I suspect this will sort itself out. - Sorted itself out for no obvious reason.

Still haven't found a mouse that will consistently do 1ms polling intervals stable. I've had DA and other mice do 1000hz, but it's not stable, more like 2 packets very close and then a gap. This is on a P965 chipset with a Core 2 Duo so CPU power should not be an issue. Running at 500hz should be plenty, 250 is fast enough IMO with only a small improvement when going to 500. Going from 125 to 250 makes a massive difference though.

The DA feels far more stable to me.

"I've had DA and other mice do 1000hz, but it's not stable, more like 2 packets very close and then a gap."

How do you know this?

In different programs that measure hz as gap between inputs it usually jumps between 500 and 3000hz for what would have been average if the last gap between inputs was the norm. It averages out to around 990 though. In 500hz mode it jumps between 497and 502 which is more than consistent enough IMO. If I play with the mouse in 1000hz it doesn't feel as consistent as 500 either.

My tests back this up aswell. Although its nice to see an average value of 999hz it's not reporting a rock solid 999 every update and it does have the problem where it sends two updates in quick succession and then sends nothing.

I'd really like to know if it skips more on glass pads like old laser mice.

WTF? It skips? I thought it wont?
Razer said so~ XP
Maybe we'll just let sujoy test it~
Btw where is he now?

he's probably testing the mouse:)

Lol i hope so, well, he has quite an amount of mices to test lawl~
Lachesis, G9, Sidewinder, and the crap ikari...

Erm, just a little request, could some one draw horizotal and vertical lines in paint using the ime 3.0 ??
That sweet mice doesnt have prediction/correction~
Will be a good standard for comparison...
Thx first!

someone already has done it :)

Thx bro, but i thin we'll probably need a comparison from the same person for accuracy's sake~
In the same pic it would be so much more easy to compare, not all mice have strong prediction, some have little/weak prediction lol, i own a g5 and the prediction is awsomely stong lol!

The Lachesis does "appear" to have prediction, see: http://razerblueprints.net/index.php?option=c...topic=6827

bro saw your post the~
My nick is 'noobie~' over rbp...
Damn, thn what the hell is razers statement doin?

I have no idea. I just hope it can be fixed by drivers and soon. If it did everything Razer said it would the Lachesis would be an excellent mouse....but it doesn't.

So ZX679, can you list out all the problems founded on the lachesis?
Plz do so, just to aware wanabee lachesis owners~ XD
Oh i'll mail robert about it...

my mx500 does too seem to have prediction.. well..

mx500

I'm going to wait until Razer responds to my support tickets (I don't expect much to be honest) until I give a list of problems.

LEARN TO USE THE REPLY FUNCTION NUB, YOU'LL FIND IT HERE -----------------------------------------------------^

Lol, c? Logi's prediction is just so damn strong!
My G5 is worst... XD
ZX679, could you please list the problem down?
No the lachesis and G9 doesnt have prediction...
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7534/g9and...dpiut9.jpg

LEARN TO USE THE REPLY FUNCTION NUB, YOU'LL FIND IT HERE -----------------------------------------------------^

Glad i bought a mx518 now i dont need to worry about mice ever again

Haha, sorry for my stupidity, well the lachesis is again a very cool mouse,
but damned by bugs and problems...

Razer Lachesis. Obviously not.

my lachesis seems to be working fine

"I can't use this shitty DA anymore and I am going to order Lachesis tomorrow :L"
Haven't you learn't your lesson? New mice are about as reliable as a catholic priest with a young boy.
Buy a IE3.0 (if you like the shape of the DA).

I tried Lachesis for a day. The new Lachesis shape is TERRIBLE. The width flares out from the primary buttons, making it very uncomfortable to claw-grip unless you have very big hands. There is still a stupid indent where the thumb grips the mouse. Overall, the mouse is just not comfortable to use. Sensor is pretty good though.

Razer should have built on Diamondback shape, with following changes:
1. remove the rubber railing
2. remove the stupid indent where the thumb grips the mouse
3. improve side buttons

Mate i cannot stress any further BUT NO DO NOT BUY IT, i got it and its crap, tends to give lag now and again, its crap got a crap holding feel, and as ive used the death adder and diamondback they are far superior, 1. cos they are shaped like the IE3 at the back, 2 cos they provide perfect gaming results. DONT BUY THE LACHESIS! or your name will become a walking irony and ull be a victim!

Yeah, till all the issues are solved, don't buy it, well,
unless razer releases a statement and say that they have revert its production and fix whatever they should...

Main issues are
Lag(Delay in response)
Random Skipping( Cause by the sensitive sensor)
Low ips( 2.5 m/s) Razer capped it, low sensers saty away!
Various software issues...

i can confirm these issues, having them myself ;/
considering i just spend 14.9% of my monthly income on a mouse its a ****** joke! it doesn't take a whole day to realise there is something wrong about this mice. i wonder if they even tested it or go by some bullshit approach that reads "we can always try to fix it in the drivers if there's to much complaints or legal trouble".

nice

sorry for bringing up a old thread. but is there any diffrence between the old ms3.0 and the new considering that prediction stuff? are both versions prediction free?

yeah both versions are~

OK after one month I can say that it really sucks. I am going to send it to the service tomorrow.

I thought that I just need to get used to it but this mouse is horrible (laser). OK, shape is decent, there aren't DA's problems anymore (scrollwheel, glidez) but sensor doesn't work well.

I haven't played wSw for one month - I tried to play with Lachesis and I would rather stop playing this game. I came back to my broken DA and I play like before ;D

Thanks for all your replies anyway.

hey, you know what, maybe just wait for the next razer mouse. i'm sure it won't disappoint. keep that loyalty to razer man.

My own opinion: I think the Lachesis is GOOD but not GREAT YET. I've had it for nearly two months and I hated it at first, mostly because of the shape. I'm a high-senser and its reallly hard on the ring finger when playing with high sensitivity. I've taken down the sensitivity (to about 1500 DPI) and it's a joy to use. It's strange really.
There ARE issues though and I'm not happy that after paying $80 I have a mouse with issues but I'm confident that most if not all of them will be straightened out. On the Razer blog the CTO said that the new firmware is almost at beta so it shouldn't be long. Why am I not worried? The DeathAdder (whether you like the mouse or not) is used by a large percentage of pro-gamers (Fnatic CS in particular) and it had lift-off and acceleration issues when it first came out making it a non-option for even the most casual gamers. Razer fixed it. I figure they HAVE to fix the Lachesis if they ever want any pro-gamer to ever use it. Imagine the embarassment and financial loss if nobody ever uses their 2nd most expensive mouse (Boomslang is the 1st). The same goes for SteelSeries and their Ikari gamble.
THE GOOD:
low lift-off distance
extremely responsive
medium-sensitivity claw-grip gamers will love it
never skips
no prediction (in-so-far as I can tell)
no acceleration
you can set your own DPI presets and they will be with you no matter what computer you're on
THE BAD (that hopefully they will fix):
the cursor "jumps' randomly on the eXactMat (works fine on the Mantis speed)
some motherboards won't boot properly with it (DeathAdder has this problem too)
Some people complained about lag(....ill just take their word for it)
Axis locking(happened once...I just re-plugged the mouse)
On soft pads(like the mantis) the sensor picks up vibration when you click and causes the cursor to move
apparently palmers hate the shape( well I guess they can't fix that)

A NOTE:
the IPS is only capped at (60i/s)2.5m/s at high DPI because at high DPI there is simply too much data being sent. However at lower DPI (~2500) the ips is 100i/s. It shouldnt affect low sensitivity gamers because they won't be using 4000 dpi and anyone who does use 4000 dpi wont be moving faster than 2.5m/s (unless they're on crack).

Told you guys that this mice suck... Lol

it's from razer of course.

Does it skip on Everglide Titan Fnatic orange mat?

My sensitivity is around 15cm/360. I just ordered one and the stock is very limited in Australia atm :(

the mouse sucks
i am using x-ray thunder 9 with it
it often moves by itslef
using 1250 dpi
for example i move it left and it move more left without me
or cursor jumps sometimes hate it

Wow nice thread.

<-- 500hz IE 3.0 ftw. I also own the razer DA, logi G5 and MX518.

None come close to the ie30

Prediction doesn't affect my general aim so much, but i've always (not just since recently) been bothered with my slow small aim being sqareish. Now that i realize i don't have to battle that anymore i really want a p/less mouse.
I'm considering G9, ie3.0 remake, and ikari L.
But since i'm a clawgriper period (and i hate all you palmers.. kiddin :) ) i guess ie3.0 is out.

What do all you clawgripers think of ikaris shape?
I've also read posts about ikari being buggy and locks up.. true?

Maby it's just G9 for me?


I use 32cm width ~2mm soft corepad

Tobbe!

It skips on Titan Fnatic pad :(

has anyone tried it on the mantis control pad?

I have bought the Lachesis.

Previously i used MX518, G5, Diamondback and Krait.

Shure, those are awesome mice at all, especially the diamondback BUT:

+The Lachesis is the most beautifull mouse

+4000dpi!!!!! nothing more to say...

+EXTREMELY precise

+Smoot, silent and extreme easy-gliding gliding pads (on exact mat its like touching it and it stops only when it reches the end of exact mat)

+9 Buttons!!!

but this is no godlike mouse so here for the negative points:

-a bit short. people with longer fingers wont reach most buttons ( i can exactly reach)

-low. fits not perfectly the shape of my hand

Overall:

Better for RTS gaming than for Shooter. You lack control in shooter gaming when the mouse dont fit your hand exactly (as Logitech G5 / MX 518) that costs you the point of reaction wich is just your death.

Contact me:

msn: deadly_wounded@hotmail.com

mail: deadlywounded@gmx.at

lg DW

why on earth would you ever need 4000 dpi and 9 buttons? the mouse sucks.

>Razer Lachesis - is it good?
no,it isn't!
razer DeathAdder much better,shape based on ms IME 3.0+good sensor.U needn't 3200or4000 laser dpi,its "Great Numbers For Noobs,they thought OMG!LASER!PIU-PIU!",ahhahah,listen2me,enouth 400 OPTICAL dpi and >6000fps.laser=shit(coz skip).500000dpi=shit(coz useless).1000Hz=shit(125hz enouth).16buttons=shit(coz there are 5 fingers).

And what's the answer to that equation?

the answer is 42.

Razer Lachesis is only for ultra-high sensitivity players, for everything other is unuseful. It has strange shape, for my hand is perfect but for my other 3 friends is shit. Personaly i like that mouse very much, but i wouldn't recommended it. And it works fine only on hard mouse pads or desk. It has very quick response on buttons, probably quicker than any other razer mouses, but buttons on sides are hard to use. I have Lachesis, DeathAdder and Logitech G3. Lachesis best fits to my hand but in overall it is shit :)

I have Lachesis for 3 months now and works perfect. I think this is best mouse i had.
Mouses before: MX310,MX510,MX518, DiamondBack


Buttons are really fast. Don't know why you think that is only for high sens. My sens is 90cm/360deg.(and think that this is low-sens)

It is easily worst mouse ive tried , even worse than ms6000.
I dont usually care about shape but this mouse was only mouse that you cant get any grip of , you cant put your fingers OVER the buttons ...
It skips , liftoff is awful even when fixed firmwares etc.

Im serious , ive NEVER even tougth anyone could do SO bad mouse in EVERYWAY ...

It is better as decoration becase of its stupid pulse lightlogo shit... i cant belive anyone rated this mouse good.

driver installation takes years too and updating ...

I dont usually even bother to answer to mousethingies but seriously THERE CANT BE WORSE MOUSE THAN THIS.

this is THE mouse: mouse of fate.

And no, its nowhere close to older razer products.

and ... i gave mine to cs player :D

this mouse is great. I've used the Copperhead, Diamondback 3g and now this Lachesis. Of the 3 I'd say I'm most satisfied with the Lachesis.

I have no issues holding this mouse. I palm grip. I place my index finger on left-click and my middle finger on right-click, I don't let my other fingers touch the mouse when aiming, only when I pick up the mouse to re-center. Aiming this way is like tickling some good pink.

The main reason I got this was because it has 2 extra buttons to program and secondly, I wanted it to experience the 4000dpi.

Biggest problem with this mouse IMO is that the sensor can be TOO sensitive. If you have a roommate that blasts music in another room for instance and there is a lot of bass, you will get stuttering tracking errors. I've experienced this on the Copperhead and Diamondback as well.

Updating the firmware for this is 10x easier/faster than it was with my previous 2 Razer mice.

Overall, I'm extremely satisfied with this product.

BS mouse i have it and it sux...i want my diamondback :'(


One of the worst mouse ever