you're pretty thick it seems

Does it make a difference on LAN? If so, all eswc has to do is have it 0 in their rules?

It does imo, as does nudge.

This I don't know, but isn't there online qualifications for ESWC?

shouldnt online and lan compete on close to same level?

edit:
also, why are you bringing this up here? there is like 3 threads about it already. why should a game be totally different online compared to lan? It's the same game.

you should be happy that you can play on higher ping now compared to before, server search doesnt have to take hours with cpma. you surely know the fights we had with russians etc in osp.


quite frankly i dont care what you vq3ers play anymore, i believe the mode itself is flawed and i find it slow and stonage-y. i do hope you do well on eswc tho fazz :)

I don't play q3 anymore. Sometimes I start it up for fun, and every time its just gotten more and more aim only. And it's NOT because the players got better. It's because the CPMA changed the dynamics of quake3. It really is boring for me to hit people when I clearly see my crosshair is faaar away from them.

And no eswc for me :) I don't have the aim it takes, nor the time to get it.

the only thing that changed the dynamics is the physics.. weapons are the same m8.

The way the weapons work(for/against you) is changed, and therefor also the dynamics.

lan has always been like that tho (?)

I don't think so.

It has.

Ok Bush, you decide the past.

You're right, lan changed a few days ago when xerp came into light to make online play more lan-like.

Idiot.

Yes, I am alone thinking this....

Arguing this with most people is like Kasparov arguing chess with a chess commentator. Totally pointless cause the commenter has no understanding of the game in Kasparov's eyes.

There I said it. Hate me more. I love you all.

And don't bother "COMPARING YOURSELF WITH THE WORLDS GREATEST CHESS PLAYER YOU BIG EGOMANIAC" cause then you missed the point.

Actually, you're one of the few who argue against xerp now. Most people are realising that xerp isn't the problem - the game is. Why do you think the majority of people want to switch to CQ3?

Try to keep up, mate.

Hi, is this you?

No, is this you?

lol

actually the only ppl who defend this idiocy are cpm players who dont even play vq3 but dont hesitate to comment on the issue......

You mean "The only people against it are the ones who have never played on LAN and never will anyway, so they don't know what they're talking about."

there are enough players with a lan record who have stated their discomfort and you could´ve read that in various threads if you wanted.

LAN record does not mean they have good judgement or are not an idiot. I'm sure you believe everything you watch on TV, too.

I am not talking about the LAN you would have with your neighbor... But I end the discussion here. I could as well discuss with the floor.

At least you'd be on equal ground.

I see what you did thar:)

xerp is totally different feeling than what lans presents without xerp. It's TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Why you think they are using xerp on lan now?

For more accurate results.

ya apparently duh. But you were arguing playing with xerp online represents what lan is. When it is not.

Of course it isn't, nothing can magically take away the affects of latency, but laghax (Because that's the command that does all the lovely netcode stuff, try out laghax 0 and xerp 1) and xerp make it closer to LAN.

Arguing this with most people is like Kasparov arguing chess with a chess commentator. Totally pointless cause the commenter has no understanding of the game in Kasparov's eyes.

Dude u know shit about Chess !.
Rofl.

Nowdays chess commentators are rated as IM (international master), GMI often ...

Only tactic is hard to follow in GMI's eyes or Kasparov's eyes ... but this is not the main part of chess, and like computer analyses u accept that.

Openings, positionals ideas, a 2000 elo could understand easily 90 % of the game.

: Someone who knows chess.

It was a synonym. Missed the point there Mr Baguette!

Go to masturbate your mouse, it is clear u are a noob at chess.
Moron.

Have I claimed anything else?

Owned ! now stop talking about chess, to try to shine in society

: bubble.

society? Get a life :D

you're going against your own logic now by the way, remember the WoW discussion? fazz is 3000 rated player while youre at 1800s. so why do you have anything to say about this? :--D

While he is a more known name, you don't really know my experience. I prefer to stick to local LAN play and occasional online play.

lmao rules change now innit.

you dont know what battlegroup i was on either so :) that argument wont hold here dude

Your battlegroup wasn't BG9 US so...

no but Cyclone EU.

With low rating. Are we going at this again?

well 1900 cyclone is like three times the skill of any other noname battlegroup : -- D

are u saying xerp (the other stuff CPMA introduced) havent boosted lg and rail on lan aswell?
i remember fox talking about this how lg was uberstrong in CPMA and thats only problem for most of the vq3 players, cpma is fucking up the balance.

LAN netcode was just as broken before as online. The benefit of fixing it is that everything works the way the values intend and as was originally intended by id. You look at it from the wrong perspective. You're saying that it improves your LG accuracy when in reality, due to the poor design of Q3, your real accuracy was simply hindered. All CPMA has done is fix bugs.

Better to balance a game around a stable framework than to try to balance it with inaccurate and unstable results.

maybe thats true but its not like arqon will ever try to balance anything after he "fixed" stuff. and i'm not sure this is how id intended, i pretty sure they balanced the weapons on their broken lan netcode so obviously thats how the balance should be.

all i'm saying is that hit/trace scan weapons was allready overused in OSP, all these fixes that we got when switching to CPMA made it 10 times worse.

That's why everyone is switching to CQ3. =P

maybe thats true but its not like arqon will ever try to balance anything after he "fixed" stuff.

The vq3 community won't let him.

didn't cpma also remove that artificial 50 ms lag, or was did osp do that as well?

rofl well done in creating the most fucking retarded comment on esr this year

honestly, I've been watching a lot of recently online competitions and none have the value of big old competitions

Uhh, I think you've got the wrong command and a combination of the most retarded net settings ever.

And I'm sorry that I'm not aware of all the forum threads on the site. As I actually never read the forum on regular basis.

its ok :)

are u saying xerp (the other stuff CPMA introduced) havent boosted lg and rail on lan aswell?
i remember fox talking about this how lg was uberstrong in CPMA and thats only problem for most of the vq3 players, cpma is fucking up the balance.

this i dont know since i havnt tested it myself :)

xerp'ers support terrorism!!
BAN XERP! STOP TERRORISM!

boring

rage appreciated

Dendaer fäzz han seuger ju (c) ugh :P

I agree. And i feel forced to use it because most people do nowdays :/ If you dont you have a big disadvantage.

Lets go back to OSP where we belong ;)

supposed to be phaze :(

gah my bad haha <3

FAZZ THE USELESSBOY

l2p + fo

lol totally rat salad

remember when you weren't a raged has been?

Duuude i just won q4 @ gathering, I'm so happening

xerp whine is getting really fucking stupid now, its been there for ages and only now do all the VQ3ers decide to start raging about it.
do you seriously not realise its because your stupid gametype is flawed and not the mod???

OMG NOW THAT Q3 WORKS ONLINE MY PRECIOUS VQ3 IS ALL AIM, LIKE ALWAYS BUT IVE ONLY JUST REALISED DOH!!!!!!

but they kept repeating q3 was perfect :'[

I guess you are too young too remember the first 4-5years of quake 3. It was a game about out thinking, out timing, improvising AND out aiming your opponent.

Not "shaft in 15sec, better be back here then." =P

look, vq3 is all aim get your head out the fucking clouds

I never said it isn't.

Hello, excuse me but the game is now in it's 9th year of existence. This style of play has evolved for a reason.

And that reason spells with 4 letters :)

lulz?

devolved :x

"first 4-5years of quake 3"

how about unplayable online and dominated by lpb swedes?

How about PLAYED online. And ALWAYS quite dominated by Swedes.

nope.

Man vq3 is all aim, look at all the lanbase tdm games swedens would whine if they had to play on 30ms lol

Why does the flawed gametype consistently produce the best duellers then?

ALL CPM is a faster version of that "flawed mod" and the increased speed puts less emphasis on aim and strat because the increase in speed make it harder to aim as well and make it easier for you to escape when you make a strategic positioning error.

Yep. The weapons and weapon balance and gameplay and armour system are exactly the same as vq3. Physics & movement are just faster.

Those are minor things.

The core changes are the speed and the impact it has on aiming and how it allows you easier escape from making a strategic positioning error that would be a lot harder to get way with in OSP.

minor?

you're a fucking idiot

they change the game drastically

Those are not major fundamental changes to the game.

If you put the armour changes from CPM into OSP it would still be OSP, just as CPM would still essentially be CPM if it used traditional armour system because those are not core changes.

I suppose if you reduced the damage of ryu's fireball and dragon punch by 25% he would no longer be ryu?

Or if you reduced the damage of the railgun by 15% in Quake 4 it would no longer be an over powered abusive piece of crap cos the imapct on gameplay would not be enough.

What really makes CPM different is the impact the greater speed has on the gameplay.

Because things like armour are all SECONDARY compared to the increase in speed which has a real impact across the board to the point where it makes it feel like a different game.

for a start it's VQ3 not OSP, OSP is a mod, not a gameplay set.

these small changes you talk totally change the way a game is played, be it 'minor' or 'major'.

Just load up CPMA and check the difference between CQ3 and VQ3. Very small changes that have a large impact on the way the game is played. The LG and MG feel like totally different weapons yet only one thing about them has changed and it's nothing to do with damage or anything that has an effect on damage.

It's not a core concept.

I could quite easily migrate to CPM from my expereince in OSP and get to grips with the game in a matter or weeks and probably do better than i ever did in OSP because my rail sucked and I was too aggressive which means gg in OSP.

Imagine idsoftware employed a company to create the ultimate version of Quake 3.
They gave them 6 years with the understanding that they would bring some original and fresh concepts into the FPS genre.

Do you really think increased DPS/ramp jumps/air control a different armour system and a few other little tweaks borrowed the 20th century would be classed as a fundamental changes and value for money?
At best a new LEVEL is the closest the mod gets to a fundamental change and that's not depedant on the mod so it does not count.

A core concept would be something major like.....

DIFFERENT CHARACTER CLASSES.

BACKGROUND DAMAGE

A NEW WEAPON MECHANIC,similar to a portal gun.

Any of those aforementioned ideas would be a core concept because they were not in Quake 3 or any of the quakes and would have a big impact on how the game is played from previous versions and unlike moving to CPM from OSP it would take a long time to master.

the problem with people around here is you've sat on your leather assess playing the same game and maps for 8 years and have absolutely no vision of what can be done to the genre.

Yes CPM is different to VQ3, but it's like comparing Street Fighter 2 Champion Editon to Street Fighter 2 Turbo.

The Turbo Edition was simply a faster version of Champion Edition with a few little tweaks, but it was still thesame game underneath because it brought very few FUNDAMENTAL tweaks to the how the characters played vs each other. Even CPM admits is an evolution
your MG analgoy is crap because i hardly doubt its something that would take any real time to readjust to.
Just as it takes very little time to adjust from different cars when you play Gran Turismo.

And while CPM is is a different game, it is still Q3 with a few little bells on. It might well play different but it's easy to adopt because at the heart of it its doing nothing different enough.
Do you really think if cooller played 2 months of CPM he would be able to rattle the top players on maps like ZTN or any pro-t4, pro-dm13?

If I played OSP and had close games with someone, and that person then migrated to CPM a month before me, with a weeks worth of play I assure you the games would still be neck and neck assuming I knew the level design, BECAUSE the game does not address anything really new that would allow that player to pull away as most decent players would get what CPM is about straight way and IMPROVE soon slot into it.

And it's not just an VQ3 vs CPM argument, it applies to many games. PArtly why Im so bored of FPS games and the SOLE reason why counter strike took over the world because it addressed the big picture when id were simply doing the same thing over and over.

Quake III sold shit becaue it offered nothing new to 99% of their market.

unlike moving to CPM from OSP it would take a long time to master.

Okay... go master CPM real quick. Prove it.

Just as it takes very little time to adjust from different cars when you play Gran Turismo.

Maybe in newb arcade mode and if you don't know how to drive properly, sure. In GT mode with near-real physics and actually konwing the proper ways to do a braking drift, the every car needs major readjustment. Stick to talking about games you know about.

I can't argue too well but here goes:

Do you really think increased DPS/ramp jumps/air control a different armour system and a few other little tweaks borrowed the 20th century would be classed as a fundamental changes and value for money?

That wasn't what I was getting at. You implied it made little difference to the overall game and this is something ix and arqon have stressed so many times; people thinking minor changes are pretty insignificant yet do not realise the impact it has on the overall gameplay.

your MG analgoy is crap because i hardly doubt its something that would take any real time to readjust to.

Calling something crap that you have absolutely no idea about and just 'doubt'? Try actually playing the game. It's not crap and it's not about readjusting (stupid). It's about the impact it has on the game (the original point, you know, the one where you said small changes don't do major). The cripple effect has gone and it totally changes how the game is played and balanced. I'll throw another example in: knockback/bounce in one of the previous CPM versions. A small change with drastic results (if I remember rightly so) how about just give it a go (instead of 'just doubting') and you might see past your arse.

The rest of your post is utter shit about going from game to game and easily adapting and so on. The only reason you can eaisly adapt is because it's general DM skill. Most of the gamers here can jump into any FPS game (regardless of how different they are) and generally pick it up right off the bat yet to be respectably skilled in them easily is unlikely. The same applies to RTS players going from game to game.

I get rolled time and time again by shitty CPM players yet roll them in VQ3 easily because they're totally different games. Ask light how many hours he has had to put into CPM to get remotely good in CPM even though he was a very solid 1v1 player in VQ3. I could list a ton of other players but that would be pointless.

Minor changes (and a lot of them) have big impacts and really think if you really think CPM is hardly different then I guess you really are that stupid.

No wonder people think you are THE idiot around here.... flaming and spamming threads about gameplay while you have no fucking clue about it.

uh.

right?

....

Why give him the time of the day.

I'm a relative newcomer to these forums but a troll is a troll no matter how he/she/it presents him/her/itself.

Jamerio isn't a troll - he's just kinda dumb sometimes. =P

How am I a troll when I'm putting up a solid argument?

there is no solid argument. your full of shit and obviously dont see what cpm is about.

Make overtly simplified across-the-board statements and see if you can rile someone up.

Your "argumentation" in a nutshell.

Glad to see you have a fucking clue what you are talking about....

way2fail

xerp is the cancer killin vq?

sif there is anything to kill anymore..

osp is the cure

lets go back to quake 4 ;)

or osp \o/
^^

who's this random n00b and why is he so raged?
nevermind.. arQon will squash him in a second >:(

I love the "haven't read anything about it/don't play q3" arguement. I think that's the one that will really get through to arQon.

XERP

haha

lmao

rofl

maybe start deleting/locking these stupid xerp threads?

fazz is the king .. over and out

this is basically cpm vs vq3. thats how people take sides anyway

Except both you and me played some cpm, and remember how fucking bad those guys where? =o)

you are both crazy if you ask me.

someone taking video gaming a little too seriously... :-\

Maybe you haven't noticed how much money they've made in gaming :C

Can only talk for myself here and I've made almost NO money if you count the time put in on gaming. Dunno if it was a serious comment tho ^^

hmm.. let's count poker as gaming too? ; D

Same answer, I'm not a very successful poker player.

can I help?

+ this dude anywhere you can :D

lol

I imagine you've beaten vo0 in cpm to speak so confidently.

I think I got too the same level as the top cpm'ers when I played it actively. For like 2 weeks. Not saying they are newbs just that I remember the skill level being very very low when I gave it a shot.

mhm.

"I think I got too the same level as the top cpm'ers when I played it actively."

BS.

I think I got too the same level as the top osp'ers when I played it actively. For like 2 weeks. Not saying they are newbs just that I remember the skill level being very very low when I gave it a shot.

I never played any of the top players, yet alone in competition, but I fail to see how that has any relevance to the credibility of my statement.

No, CQ3 vs VQ3.

oh, hello

lol. why cry about that game feels like playing on lan when u play online. and no ping advantages ?

shafting above 40% with 130 ping, yet having 130 ping rockets, rail, shotgun, et al does NOT feel like lan.

thats more an effect of laghax -1 than xerp tbh. you get unlagged hitscan but rl/pg stays fucked.

you never saw kids that have been playing for 2-3 months shafting 40% vs decent players like it was meant to be before xerp. not even on lan. this has nothing to do with laghax, to be honest.

following the same logic those decent players should be shafting 60% with xerp, right?

you completely misread/misunderstood my comment.

enlighten me.

So is that really because they can't shaft 40% and xerp lets them or just because before it took longer to get used to how to play to the netcode?

I mean there are plenty of players in many games now who can track well enough with a mouse to hit 40% so expecting them not to after a few months of practice implies the netcode should be an artificial barrier in some way. It's a hitscan weapon that's very easy to aim vs opponents with very limited movement options to dodge.

guess we'll have to see if everyone is shafting 40-60% at the next major lan. then your point would be validated, no?

Who are these people who are shafting 60%? (In actual rounds, not on amphi/similar). I'd really like to see screenshots/demos of these people.

I've seen people hitting 40-45% but not really anything especially higher than this and not in any serious games.

If you really want to prove how xerp is better than LAN it's quite simple:
- Download an aimbot+autoshoot
- Go to Below the rail on OSPDM5
- Have your "partner" strafe from the left wall to the right wall (With his back touching the rail platforms wall) to minimise any differences that dodging could have.
- Have your "partner" turn god mode on and shaft him for 30/60secs or X shots
- Repeat this on LAN/Online with xerp and without xerp (and any combination you care to try).

If it really is easier to aim with xerp online than on LAN then the statistics will show it up.

You've covered your bases there. 40% is just normal good shafting, 60% will not happen and is the kind of silly hyperbole that makes this whine rather hard to take seriously.

kgb has been spotted several times with 55-58% lg. sue me for rounding up 2-4%. there's no hyperbole involved.

Yeah, and that's totally xerp and not other means of 'assistance'.

are you implying that he cheats?

Aren't you the guy who constantly goes on about how he is a cheat?

never once have.

Ah, ok :D

to be fair, i've said several times in the past that i thought he was suspect. then recently he just admitted he was xerping his nuts off to get his 50+ lg with 60-80 ping.

and i agree that 35-45% is good shafting, but it's ridiculous when people that have been playing less than 3 months are achieving that against opponents that have been playing significantly longer. simply ridiculous.

I am 1 of those persons, now why is it ridiculous for me to have good aim?

what if they come from all hitcan games where tracking aim is basically all you need.

he's just pissed for being beaten by new players who, can you imagine, don't need to go trough years of adopting to broken netcode.

yeah that's pretty much my point, too. The only reason people couldn't use their tracking aim as well was because it worked differently.

I guess some people will even call that "skill" :/

it's not noble or classy to actually hit where you aim, ya know?

yes, I'm sorry.

the only players i've lost games to in the past couple of weeks under fairly "even" circumstances are zero4, griffin, kgb, and rapha. none of them lg'd over 35% vs me and i hold no grudge against any of them for winning. what does disturb me is the all-aim;no-brain downward spiral in which the internet side of the game is going as a result of this glorious "fix". what i'm referring to are games that i've witnessed as a spectator. "lan" shaft and net rockets. great.

Those 4 the only ones you played? ;p

actually, i was a bit irked by griffin going +back mode for the OT win :P

so instead of whining about shit rockets you whine about proper lg? nice.

proper lg? please. get back to me when you've played competitively on lan. until then, you and the rest of the groupies can kindly stop talking about that with which you are utterly unfamiliar and clueless.

raged.

cg_lagHax <-1|0> (default = -1)

0 disables it, -1 means "as much as I'm allowed": it's naturally adaptive. You'll lose some of your "feel" for lag, which messes up your RL aim, etc.

I dunno how many games you play that are high ping that there's such a massive difference between the feel of your hitscans and non-hitscans.

I can see the difference at 80ping; but when you're playing 30-40 ping when does it become an issue?

funny you'd mention that. i currently live in hawaii. my lowest pinging, modern server ANYWHERE is an obscure promode-centric server in LA with about 68ms. next lowest is about 78ms (my most frequented server). if i play on dallas servers, i'm looking at 100-115. chicago is 120-15 or so and nyc is 135+.

so no, the 30-40ms thing no longer applies to me.

edit: so the answer to the first part of your comment is "all of them"

you should move to a better place : D

That's the problem with this cpma.

:D <- me laughing

quickly, somebody call the whaaambulance!

eswc online qualifier rules specifies cg_xerpclient should be set to 0, I guess that is sufficient to make fazz happy .

So you can check if someone uses it?

how do they check r_picmip <=5 either ? , I dont have a clue how those can be enforced in an online tourney, expert in server admin controls anyone ?? but I doubt all client side variables is transparent to server.

you can make punkbuster check them afair.

ok that should end the xerp whine, since nobody can provably use it in eswc.

you are quite the optimist, aren't you?

or what else...xerpers xerping their way through to the grand finals..it is so xerpilicious !!

If punkbuster can't even stop cheats, what chance does it have against xerp?

sounds like someone got out shafted by a 100 pinger yet again

in old osp days people used shaft in online games very selectively.
Railing really well was considered a rare skill. I mean no wonder todays online q3 is way different than it used to be. I mean nowadays almost everybody in a pub server hits 35+ with lg, most people know all possible rails in dm6, I think its about time to get quakelive !!!

While xerp 1 makes a significant difference and imo improvement to xerp 0, it is not a problem in CPM but only VQ3 gameplay. The whole fucking problem is not aiming being too easy now, it's the ridiculous combination of rather bad dodging abilities, slow movement, weak armours and very strong hitscan weapons in VQ3. It was less significant with OSP because the netcode was simply way worse than nowadays with CPMA. I think this partly even applies for LAN, but again you can't blame the technical side for the gameplay flaws. CPM has constantly been tweaked and changed to make it balanced and kinda "flawless" from a gameplay point of view, while VQ3 gameplay has been the same since 2000. Even sports do apply changes to the ruleset ("gameplay") to fit today's needs, it's just VQ3 staying behind. So just cut the whine, get that fucking thing tweaked a little (towards CQ3) and you're set. Too bad the majority of idiotic VQ3ers is too narrow-minded to actually accept gameplay changes (not changing VQ3 into CPM, but making it ready for today's mouses/connections/netcodes). You're not upgrading from a carriage to a sports car and keep the old wooden wheels either, do you?

The whole "shot being off but still hitting" thing is due to a change in the way stuff is rendered, read ix's explanation in one of the other threads. Models and shots are just drawn differently compared to OSP so it looks off but it isn't.

I see what you mean, but tbh, the kind of games we saw some years ago, are the games I wanna see now aswell. I don't want vq3 too be a new game. When I see spartie playing noctis or unity I just get sad, it's like (lukrek on 1ms with timenudge -20)^20. And it doesn't show any talent at all IMO. The games are horrible too watch IMO. Aimaimaim, and it wasn't AT ALL like this ON LAN with OSP 3 years ago. No offense guys, I bet you put years into aiming that good. But if you compare with for example cypher, it's not hard to notice that he is very very talented. I want too see more of that talent being displayed, not his 45% shaft.

I guess we'll see at eswc if these "online heros" can hit without xerp :) Will be very intresting too see some new and old names clash for real.

All you need to solve the "problem" is a fix so you can disable it by voting. And add the information of the players setting to /players.


And what is CQ3? I think I missed something ^^

It's a tweaked VQ3 (possibly too much for some people).

spartie playing noctis or unity

and none of them are using xerp, gg.

My question is still unanswered. How do you check if a player uses it or not?

And the problem isn't just xerp. It's arqon.

arQon made VQ3 bad?

no, he just didn't leave the netcode bad or something

Criminal, clearly. =P

awesome

cq3 is what we should be playing

The games are horrible too watch IMO. Aimaimaim, and it wasn't AT ALL like this ON LAN with OSP 3 years ago.

Keywords being "3 years ago".

Yeah that is entirely true I guess (hardly watching VQ3 these days), but as I said it's not the technical side that is the problem, it's the lack of updates for VQ3 gameplay that kinda kills the game combined with new technology. Make some minor changes to VQ3 to rebalance it and you might see similar or even better games again.

CQ3 (chocolate Q3) is a tweaked version of VQ3 gameplay with minor changes into the direction VQ3 should be going anyway. Test it by voting \callvote gameplay cq3 on a CPMA server, guess people like fox are willed to play vs you. Changes should be on www.promode.org -> wiki or in the CPMA docs in your Q3 dir, they might be a little outdated tho (dont know).

xerp right now can't be checked, it's not included in the \players command or any other kind of stats. It should definitely be added to \players in future CPMA versions if tournaments keep locking it so you can at least spam it during games when people are shafting etc. (some people including myself use weaponspecific xerp settings as it kinda ruins the RL aim).

yeah, i noticed the RL thing. kinda annoying.

Very well put. `

my cg_xerpclients 1 predicts another 500+ retardspam thread

cheat0r, haxxor, xerper!

Firstly you're all stupid for giving Angel and Arqon an inch in the first place cos they'll both take a mile. Luckily they'll burn themselves out too.
One is a failed investment banker who has been ripping gamers off for years.
The other is a bitter mod coder with a serious and misplaced superioty complex and that is coming from me but at least I have no angle and know what I'm talking about.

Quake III is a 9 yr old game, in Vq3/OSP mode it's EASIER to hit higher hit percentages because the gameplay is slower.

That is why the Xerp command is appearing to be problem and the "BUG" and the notion that it is a bug in Vq3 is bullshit because the game is so old the player skill has far exceeded the damage values that id had anticipated at the time.

The firing rate of the shaft was SET by the designer who no doubt considered AVG player skill/net connection etc in 1999!!!

So whether this Xerp thing is a technical problem is not important.

The impact of it was gamepaly related and while it might have been a welcome addition to one mod (CPM), it's caused problems in another mod where it would not have been a problem except you all went into Zombie mode and believed angel was actualyl going to use q3 and was not at all his last bastion of hope of saving his collapsing organisation and shutting up bad PR on ESR.

CPM has faster gameplay so its harder to hit shots compared to OSP.
CPM has faster gamepaly so it's easier to GET OUT making a strategic error.
So Xerp probably is well suited here.

OSP has slower gameplay so it easier to hit shots.
OSP has slower gameplay so its easier to punish people if they make a strateic error.

So considering the shaft has probably way exceeded the level of prowess id originally anticipated, I would say Xerp was only ever going to cause problems and force people to choose one over the other.

Whether Xerp was a bug or not is not important.
The reality is the command now puts too much emphasis and power on a gun which is already abused.

it has nothing to do with Showing the flaws of OSP.
the flaws are there cos you've spent 9 years playing the same game.

Luckily Quake Live is out soon so it should automatically undo the damage caused by everyone believing CPL and using CPM in the first place as the only people that will play it will be CPM players as it was before you all got sucked in.

Whether Xerp was a bug or not is not important.

Nobody has ever said it was a bug. Ever.

The reality is the command now puts too much emphasis and power on a gun which is already abused.

You mean "makes it the way it would be if you were playing it on LAN."

The firing rate of the shaft was SET by the designer who no doubt considered AVG player skill/net connection etc in 1999!!!

+

That is why the Xerp command is appearing to be problem and the "BUG" and the notion that it is a bug in Vq3 is bullshit because the game is so old the player skill has far exceeded the damage values that id had anticipated at the time.

+

it has nothing to do with Showing the flaws of OSP.
the flaws are there cos you've spent 9 years playing the same game.

= wtf?

Did you even read your post before you made it? How can you say VQ3 isn't flawed and at the same time blame the damage values? Really, wtf? Xerp only makes it so you can hit the correct percentages you should. The weapons have never changed - all that has changed is the ability to hit with them correctly.

The reason this has made ESR rain with VQQ tears is that everyone can finally see just how bad VQ3 would be if we were all on LAN. Anyone complaining about xerp either has never played on LAN or just ignorantly refuses to look at the facts. You can't just band-aid the game by changing a value here and there, either - you have to work from the ground up.

1) Xerp isn't a bug (I've no idea what you're on about here to be honest)
2) Xerp 1 is cg_smoothclients an id software command
3) Xerp doesn't actually make the MG/LG anymore powerful, you can still aim with no extra effort to the same standard with or without. (Xerp 0 = Lead your aim, Xerp 1 = Aim at the models)

Your arQon/Angel rage is hilarious. Nobody gave arQon anything, TDM was ALREADY using CPMA VQ3 in some leagues, it would have happened anyway regardless of what Angel did.

Also attacking arQon is like admitting you've no actual argument against the command just that you don't like the fact CPMA is being played over OSP.

funny thing is that it does all but smooth player models (that's what smoothclients is supposed to do, right?)

I know, I mentioned that in another forum! :D

Using nudge ?

no

Bug in the sense that a lot of CPM devs are going on about it being how things really should be.

If all it is is smoothclients 0/1 then what is the big deal and why are people moaning about it then as surely all the Q3 cvars were exhausted years ago?
And waht's with the stupid name as i never heard about it until a few weeks ago?

I knew about smoothclient years ago so why all the threads?

Xerp must do something for people to bitch about it.
If it's nothing new then why all the recent fuss?

It's been in the docs for ages (Ok it doesn't explain in detail but it DOES say cg_smoothclients = xerp 1)

The whine is just a load of bs to be honest.

CPM devs have only said that it is extrapolating and that now you just have to aim at the model (therefore it is more like LAN).

Xerp is a bug? You're such a fucking retard.

I was mistaken, arqon had actually replied on this in the other xerp thread.

yay for timing adam... >:(

thanks to everyone for their commens - i'll rule on this when i get back from vacation.

But I see through it, since arqon doesn't go on vacation(I mean come on who is he kidding, not a single picture of the guy in all these years, prove me wrong!!!1)

And "I'll rule on this", COME ON. I'm guessing it just shows what kind of political theory he is supporting.

Actually I seem to remeber a picture being posted with one interview (could be just a random guy ofc)

Until now the dicussion had been pretty good, especially for one where VQ3 and CPMers would tend to be at one another's throats. Your posts, Fazz, are stupid and counter-productive.

You've not bothered to check any facts before shooting your mouth off: "or whatever the idea was(haven't read anything about it)". Xerpclients is id smoothclients interacting the the CPM necode, so calling arQon an asshole over it is misguided and you show your own attitude is just as bad.

Your arrogant combination of insulting those weaker than you:

"Except both you and me played some cpm, and remember how fucking bad those guys where? =o)"

with insulting people who're stronger than you:

"When I see spartie playing noctis or unity I just get sad, it's like (lukrek on 1ms with timenudge -20)^20. And it doesn't show any talent at all IMO. The games are horrible too watch IMO. Aimaimaim"

shows you're just a washed up player who can't accept that things might have moved on. What is the fazz definition of talent that all others must aspire to? Woe-betide any who win without fullfilling fazz's requirements.

VQ3 has always seemed like a massive aim-fest, those who have the aim just like to think they're strategic masterminds to boot and get a shock when some 'new-school' noobs come along with better aim. Sky from the UK scene wrote something similar years about about generations of players complaining how the new school were stupid and aimy and not noble like the people who'd played on cups and string in the days of the dinosaurs.

"I guess you are too young too remember the first 4-5years of quake 3. It was a game about out thinking, out timing, improvising AND out aiming your opponent."

Maybe in the first couple of years, when Ice Climbers broke q3dm6 with cess then you can see aim gradually breaking VQ3 more and more. A game where Quad is practically ignored is not healthy.

You're just living nostalgia for something ephemeral, if you took the new aim monsters back to the old days I think they'd still be aim monsters, noone is 'all settings', aim and mice have moved on, far more people have good connections (a Swede whining about an LPB, now that's some funny shit).

It's that attitude that really will kill FPS because you're totally unwilling to see the real problem (batshit insane damage values for hitscans combined with the cripple effect and slow movement) and move to the solution, which is to tweak the weapons and some elements of player physics (remove cripple).

This is why I posted my thoughts in a journal not in a forum. Cause it got me pissed today and today I raged about it. I haven't insulted anyone. I said what I thought. And if that insults anyone than that's not my problem tbh. I don't give a fuck what anyone writes or thinks about me(believe it or not i have been quite bashed through the years). I am in a hurry too go home from a lan so I might answer better too this when I wake up home and perhaps is in a better mood. Slept 10hours since wednesday.

Everything I wrote is discussed with other people who agree with me but don't dare too write it for their "image" too be ruined. I don't care much about that anymore since I'm not into esports seriously at all anymore.

Now i have to pack up and go. Lets talk later

Whatever happened to CHUK ! That site had some decent articles.

I'd plus you but you're already #1 and now I have to beat you AND Nicky, I need to find some way to say something good about CPM, bad about women and insulting to black people to I can get plussed by you, Nicky and Jamerio thus taking my rightful place at the top.

Bitches don't know 'bout my CPM skillz, nigga?

Jamerio hates people like breeze mate

Arabs generally steal things, sell carpets and blow shit up.

What's to like?

blowing shit up is awesome!

All the action heroes do it!!!

Half Dutch half Turkish and I sell carpets so wft? :P

I'm like the fifth most popular person on ESR. You should be kissing my arse!

pff just a wannabeeee xx

Pika mate Pika

[+] to help you on your way :P

I remember when I was up in the 80%'s and on number 4 or so, what the hell happened :(

Meth is a hell of a drug.

Stop saying funny stuff for fucks sake.

its a family guy quote (i dont know this)

xerpclients is id smoothclients interacting the the CPM necode, so calling arQon an asshole over it is misguided and you show your own attitude is just as bad.

so you say "id smoothclients fucked up cpms netcode?". thats really awesome dude, since CPMA is a MOD for id game. lol.

then why arQon did not just remove xerp if it works wrong with his netcode? he even renamed smoothclients in xerp, gave it wrong description. No, he doesnt deserve to be called an asshole etc, but he did a mistake there and he should fix that please, and dont say "xerp 1 is good".

You should work for Fox News.

im not british and dont understand this :p

oh wow.

i think that by your previous comment you proven that you dont understand maaaaaaaany things

When a pole tells you that you're not understanding alot of things, you fucking need help.

yep, it couldn't get any worse than that
:D

i will just answer like the CPM players on esr do.

lol you are an idiot, go away dumbass.

problem is, you give people reason to call you an idiot, whining about things you have no understanding of.
btw i play vq3

I do not give any reason, I am discussing. the problem is that large amount of cpm fanboys here cant discuss, they dont know how to do this. only showing they have not enough intellect for a discussion.

Arqon said that it works as intended.

but yeah sure you got the intellect for a well founded discussion...

We'll discuss with you once you actually UNDERSTAND what it is that we are discussing.

[+] for "Woe-betide"

xerp is basicly "unlagged" netcode for lg(and maybe mg)?

so if xerp/unlagged is concidered good, we would need unlagged netcode for all weapons to not unbalance the weapons depending on ping? but i know that the unlagged netcode doesn't feel the same(beeing railed around corners and prediction for projectils etc) and most ppl would never want to adapt to this.

seems kinda fucked up to "unlag" just some weapons right?

here's some good read about q3-netcode and about unlagged code (incl cg_smoothclients/cg_xerpclients 1 extrapolating):
http://www.ra.is/unlagged

It's not unlagged

that's why i said "unlagged", but it's kind of similar..

xerp = you hit where u aim undependent on ping

unlagged = you hit where u aim undependent on ping

no thats cg_laghax
xerp predicts even further so you can shoot behind them and hit shots where you were slow to change direction when shafting.

wrong. unlagged is a serverside feature that calculates players position and hits depending on the state of the world retroactively. so if you get railed by a 100ms hpb the server will calculate your position 100ms ago and kill you if you were at the position the guy shot. the shot will be percieved as real time on the side of hpb, only your death will be delayed by 100ms, as opposed to his weapon firing 100ms later.

xerp/nudge/laghax etc are just clientside graphical effects (can I make this any more bold?) that extrapolate opponents position with a margin of error getting bigger the higher the nudge value gets.

wow you really missed the point..

no you did. xerp only looks similar to unlagged until you hit 40+ ping. after that it's all laghax.

my point is that the point i'm talking about is my point and not your point.

you don't have a point.

It's no good telling him he's missed the point when you're just wrong.

then tell me what my point was and what was wrong with it?

its the combo of laghax and xerp that makes it "look" imba, while its laghax doing the shizzle

correct

you sir are a retard

and "i will fucking strangle you "(c) kilem - if you keep talking such rubbish when you have no clue

without xerp i out aim player1
with xerp i out aim player1

that doesnt change...

however being a relatively new player i am glad xerp is around, because matching players 7+ years of brain/experience is hard.. instead i can focus my game more around my aim and hope that carrys me more so with xerp1 than xerp0

" just cause you can beat some good players online using this shit doesn't mean that you are skilled in any way. You low skilled retards."

well actually, its a good feeling beating people using xerp1, because i know that even with their 7 years of experience, they arnt perfect :) sorry if you are an oldschooler, but with this command allows new players including me who have little vq3 experience get into it faster... the ones whining like babies (eg. you) are the older/maybe more experienced players getting beaten, nothing more. Did you turn on the command and be like OMGWTFBBQ I AIM SO NICE... then get beaten by someone with better aim than you?!

Though i do agree LG/MG is overpowered... its better than broken weapons from 1996.

dont hate the command hate the gameplay/mode... if you dont like it quit the game or hope arqon changes it... better still go play osp or even q4... using lg with 60 ping on both of those feels the same and stupid.

dont be so afraid of change that you have to cry about it. hf.

wow your an idiot

that's like playing chees online using a bot that thinks for you and makes you feel good about yourself because they didn't think of it after 50 years of playing.

but i win and its not a bot so who cares!

you sir are very smart man and I take your reasoning just a little further.

without wallhacks i out aim player1
with wallhacks i out aim player1

that doesnt change...

however being a relatively new player i am gladwallhacks are around, because matching players 7+ years of brain/experience is hard.. instead i can focus my game more around my aim and hope that carrys me more so with wallhacks instead of walls

" just cause you can beat some good players online using this shit doesn't mean that you are skilled in any way. You low skilled retards."

well actually, its a good feeling beating people using wallhacks, because i know that even with their 7 years of experience, they arnt perfect :) sorry if you are an oldschooler, but with this command allows new players including me who have little vq3 experience get into it faster... the ones whining like babies (eg. you) are the older/maybe more experienced players getting beaten, nothing more. Did you turn on the command and be like OMGWTFBBQ I AIM SO NICE... then get beaten by someone with better aim than you?!

/sarcasm

not saying xerping is hacking but your reasoning is just bullshit.

congrats, you just owned yourself.

let me summarize your post.

xerp is good cause it gives you a chance vs someone who plays for 7+ years? ofcourse that is good for you. you know why? because you are a fucking noob. if u lose 30:0 to that 7+ guy in OSP, and play a close match in CPMA just due to the fact that u can abuse the shaft and do insane amounts of damage in 3 seconds, while no need to really concentrating on timing items or anything else, something is wrong there, maybe? or u think it was meant to be played like that?

people who had brains always hated cs, cause it gave everyone a chance in fight vs everyone. quake had something that was called a skill gap. it was miles and miles between pro and noob. which is the reason noobs hated it. cause they would always get their asses handed to them in a very brutal way.

Edit: getting raped by swedes for years just because netcode is shit and they have 1000000 mbit connections (ok, its not JUST because of that :) )isnt good either, so the overall answer is prolly a tough one. it should be fair to have the same chances in 20 vs 60 ping matches, but it still fucks up the overall balance.

I don't believe one bit that a new player can come in and duke it out with any active top player on aim alone. They'll get slammed left, right and centre if they have no experience at all.

His argument is crap though. What he should have said was "With xerp 1 I can focus on everything else about my game rather than on how to lead in front of the model so that my hits actually register".

As it happens nvc has played quite a lot of DM games in general and has been playing very, very actively so it's not like he's some random newbie who has come along and is outaiming+beating people with seven years experience (Unless maybe he's playing wock :().

yeh i guess i worded it wrong lol, but what you said is pretty much what i meant :D i just never read what i write before i press submit.

You would definitely win the prize for the worst argument, ever. Btw, I am in favour of xerp.

It's funny how Hooney and the other guys that came up with Promode, foresaw this situation (ie VQ3 being a game where ultimately aim would rule the day) back in 1999. Not that it wasn't fkn obvious when you compared it to the other Quakes but still.

Yeah who would have thought that a slow game with high damage per second hitscan weapons plus crippling effects would come down to aim. You'd have to be a rocket scientist to foresee that.

still not as aim biased as a lot of you idiots seem to think, or shall I say was

I loved arqon's 'there is never any strat involved, only a tiny bit at the top level' not word for word but he meant that exactly and it was only a few months ago

was the biggest crock of shit ever

Ye Mass, easy to make smartass remarks in 2008 when all is said and done, back then competitive gameplay design was uncharted territory and coming out with such statements vs. a crowd of vanilla fanboys (that still resist change almost a decade later) was revolutionary. It's a shame the "design team" (and the design-> implementation process itself) has kinda lost its way since then.

It might not have been the case in Greece, but in Scandinavia it got obvious pretty quickly that hitscan rules all in vq3.

And what do you mean "lost its way"... Back then the dev team didn't dare/care fix vq3, and they still don't.

go fazz !

true!

I dont understand how people can keep arguing for xerp just making online like LAN, its utter bullshit.

When we see these players at a LAN without xerp i expect their LG% will be less than they were getting online.

CPMA netcode always been shit anyway imo. You can just flick and shoot with a rail in someones general direction and it seems to hit, let alone the rockets that seem to have a gravity field that sucks nearby people into them :/

lol

that one made me chuckle, ta

you're still thick as fucking shit it seems

go away cunt

Go away retard. Kill yourself over fatal1ty's q4 failure.

^

what they said

its because CPM'ers can't shaft without it, welcome to ESR :)

and the majority of top cpmers dont use it.

The majority of wallhackers don't admit too wallhacking either *whistle* *provoke* *rofl*

tf mate, gripping for straws a bit here? :D

how can you whistle while rolling on the floor laughing? dipwit.

Just picture it for a minute. It provides more comic relief than originally intended. :)

people still play q3?!

It's funny that so many people complaining about xerp are swedes... do you even remember how fucked it is to play with 60-70ms (which is the best I can possibly get atm)?!
You may have played 5 matches a year vs. some russians and that's where the ping/server-whine came in almost everytime.

I damn sure know I'd be pissed about xerp if I had constant 20-30ms all across europe and some HPB certainly hits more than me - just as pissed as I'd be on 60-70ms "unxerped", getting shaft-raped by some 20ms swede in every fight :)

mmm that must be it...

his comment is obviously a generalization and plain wrong in some cases (and propably right in some other).
the point is, if some players just cant play a decent match without it at all because of fucked up pings, they dont care if it makes some ppl`s shaft 5% better. yes, its not a problem that swedish players have and its not a big problem for me either, but you cant just only think about playing under ideal conditions online when this situation is only relevant for 30% of all players...

dun hate the player hate the xerp.

It's funny that so many people complaining about xerp are swedes... do you even remember how fucked it is to play with 60-70ms (which is the best I can possibly get atm)?!

word

thats not the swedes' fault, though.

It's funny that so many people that like xerp are africans... do you even remember how fucked it is to play with 10ms (vs a ping 70 opponent, which i am losing to atm)?!

Why are the same 5 cpm idiots spamming all these threads?

This is the argument that needs to be adressed, written in bold so the 5 brainless cunts can read it:

IF 2 GUYS PLAY EACH OTHER AND BOTH GET A "LAN-LIKE" ENVIRONMENT FOR THE LG, BUT NOT FOR THE OTHER WEAPONS, YOU ARE DESTROYING THE GAME BALANCE, AREN'T YOU?

LG = LAN
OTHER WEAPONS = NOT LIKE ON LAN

--> SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT?

dude, xerp doesnt do anything specific to lg

Don't destroy his argument yet, he thinks he's on a roll. =P

that could be me there

I'm seeing a few loudmouthed promode players on bad skill level write responses to every single critical opinion on this topic, with "vedic" leading the way. It is a bit freaky, no doubt about that.

In his opinion "the only people who are against xerp are the ones who will never play LAN anyway".
That is awsome coming from some complete newbie with no idea of what quake is now and what it used to be in response to critical opinions of the xerp command from players that have been the best in their countries for many years.

Quake3, vq3, has lived so many years, it has been a game for the masses, and considered the best 1v1 shooter of all times.
CPMA is a small mod for this game that was played by a few players but seen with shrugging shoulders by the majority of quake players, and now, in the very end of quake3:s lifetime, the vq3 game is played in the CPMA frame with developers that don't like the real quake3 in the lead.
Evidently, they push their dwarfmode, which logically profits from a bigger player potential by sharing a frame with the popular quake3, and force settings into quake3 that vq3 topplayers protest against.

Apparently the vq3 community has lost it's vedics and massmans, maybe the fire for a question like this isn't there anymore.
Still, it has come quite far when the 50-player community dictates play for the quake3 that was the real and big game and had all the topplayers with exciting competition for almost 10 years, with great games coming from guys like fox or fazz and certainly not from guys with a response to the same questions in every single thread regarding the issue on esreality.

Actually, I only invested the time I did in defending xerp for the fear that the overwhelming idiocy might actually stifle progression like was attempted with the 125fps physics idiocy. That and I have a lot of free time at work to use my phone web browser! Now that arQon already made it clear that it stays, I'm going to spend my time just telling people how stupid they are.

I'll start with you. You represent the "IT WAS BETTER BACK IN MY DAY" crowd with no intention of even remotely considering that things used to suck. You hear a comment here or there by a "pro" player and you take it as law (and you didn't even read that Fox supports CQ3 and argrees with arQon's decision), despite the fact that you know nothing about the subject and suck at the game. VQ3 has no voice because anyone smart enough to put an argument together would be fighting for progress.

VQ3 started to die before CPMA had it's hands in the pie. You should be thanking CPMA for giving VQ3 the extra years it has. Nobody forced you to play CPMA. You could have stayed with OSP or even made your own mods. You complain so much about the volunteer work people have done for your benefit, and you still come back to take another serving. It reminds me of the idiots on the WoW forums who vehemently complain daily, and yet they still pay the subscription and play the game.

You represent the skilless and ignorant cancer that has been killing Q3 for 6+ years now. Save time and complain to the bots you lose to - typing out such a long reply on my phone is quite a bitch!

It's extremely annoying to read your fanatic argumentation where everyone who supports something you don't like doesn't have an idea of the issue, sucks at the game or isn't smart enough to support what you think is better.

What I find questionable is that quake3-players now are under dictate of developers that support a dwarf mode that few ever wanted to play, while disliking the concept of the quake3 that everybody wanted to play.
Their interest in ruling on questions like this one certainly isn't to do what is best for quake, but what is best for the dwarf mode.

If arqon would think in the best interest of vq3, it would be easier to give his ideas about xerp the chance to be considered improvements, but with arqons clear dislike for quake3, the game is simply not in good hands.

Obviously arQon does have some 'respect' to vq3 to some degrees, otherwise there'd be nerfed rail and shaft damage allready...:) (wich would be a good thing)

they dont want to change anything in vq3 ... but check cq3 .. thats the cpma team's idea of a better vq3!

everyone who supports something you don't like doesn't have an idea of the issue, sucks at the game or isn't smart enough to support what you think is better.

If you really had the experience you tout, you wouldn't make the claims you do. How is this wrong?

What I find questionable is that quake3-players now are under dictate of developers that support a dwarf mode that few ever wanted to play,

Who the fuck is stopping you from playing OSP? Who's stopping you from making your own mod? You're perfectly happy using arQon's mod and complaining when you could spend that time productive to your cause. Your argument has no weight when you complain about how things are and then just sit around and deal with it anyway.

while disliking the concept of the quake3 that everybody wanted to play.

If "everybody" wanted to play it, Q3 wouldn't be down to the size of the community it is now. Clearly there is a problem with the lasting power of Q3 and no amount of fanboyism is going to stop that. CPMA is the mod of choice for both VQ3 and CPM, and CPM itself has a sizable community. It's clear that there is a market for such change as Warsow and CPM have only helped to reduce the VQ3 crowd to the size it is.

If arqon would think in the best interest of vq3, it would be easier to give his ideas about xerp the chance to be considered improvements,

This is your opinion, not a fact. You disagree with his choices without even considering the reasoning. If id made the changes, I'm sure you'd be happy to just blindly accept, but for some reason, the VQ3 community seems to think that anything arQon does is for the worst. Worse yet, you sit back and complain and don't do a thing about it. You honestly have no right to complain when OSP is still perfectly usable for VQ3 and there are plenty of documents on how to learn to code your own mod out there.

If OSP is what everyone wanted, everyone would be playing it. They're not. 99% of the players on OSP servers are just bots. What exactly do you think arQon has done that was not in the best interest of VQ3? The physics? Most players with any skill got used to it within days of the change. The netcode? Yeah, it really makes sense to try to balance weapons by using shoddy networking instead of from the ground up. Childish arguments, at best.

good argument m8

YEAH, VQ3 IS TEH 8TH WONDER OF THE WORLD, NOT LIEK IT COULD BE FLAWED IN ANY WAY!!!!11
it's sad that people fail to see, that technical improvements (not just xerp), show that q3 gameplay isn't perfect. basicly we could get back to year 2000, nobody complained about lg aimwhores then...

Just tried this "new" cmd. And ROFL. Too those who doesn't notice a difference or say its not an unfair thing too use. You are newbies. PERIOD

Wait, so saying period makes it a fact? it's that easy? AWESOME!

fazz you are an idiot, PERIOD.

I liek replish

dat's sum bulletproof logic right thar.

why don't people use the old osp ?
if they wanna be prepared for eswc, they don't necessarily have to practice with ivan sidorenko from syberia, 2000 kms away

after the cpl switch essentially forced anyone that wanted to play compeition style q3dm to move on to cpma, there's very few (if any) decent OSP servers leftl; that's the case in the US at least. makes it idiotic for others to say "stfu and go back to OSP". those that have conflicts/issues w/cpma probably wouldn't mind giving a return to OSP a chance if the opportunity actually presented itself. then again, in doing so, we'd lose the aim-only crowd which has become the majority of today's players as a result of the switch in the first place.

There are no servers left since everyone is supporting the community and the community is going with whats played "officially".

So... the community wants things the way they are. Fancy that.

seems not in my region
romanian and hungarian q3 servers most use osp

What both of them?

yeah, because we're backwards idiots

but this don't help you at all, I know

I wish I had enough time to both read all the xerp threads and post some dumb things on them.

why? its a waste of time.

wow.

Havent tried xerp yet, so i am not going to say whether it is good or bad!
But I find it kindda funny that (no offence) nonamed quake 3 players are arguing for xerp in a good way, and then, most of the players who spend a good 3-4 years playing q3 competetive think xerp is probably the worst thing ever!

It's not a tuff call who to believe.

3-4 years of adapting to a broken game... gone to waste.

How can you call the most succesfull fps game ever, a broken game?
I guess you would say the game is getting better and better with all these new mods and commands aswell, but why is then that almost noone is playing nowadays, and if we go 3-4 years back, so many players were active in a, as you call it, broken game?

What? It was less successful than Q2.

if you say so

Huh? It's a WELL KNOWN FACT, not just what I say. Q3 sold poorly and, while it did alright online (not anymore, years ago), it's hardly even close to the most successful FPS game ever.

"How can you call the most succesfull fps game ever, a broken game?"

The most successful? As in the amount of money earned, number of players, what? Surely you can't be that stupid...

"ut why is then that almost noone is playing nowadays, and if we go 3-4 years back, so many players were active"

So you DO mean the number of players? Wow, I guess you really are that stupid. grats.

Quake3 is THE reference for 1v1 fps gaming, if you like it or not.

Brescia is just another topplayer observing that the only people that argue for xerp are nonames, while plenty of good players have articulated concern.

The concern has mostly been with the fact that people hit more with MG/LG (True, nobody is denying this) and that it "breaks" VQ3 by making it more aim heavy.

The command doesn't change VQ3 it just makes the flaws in its gameplay flourish more (Kinda like how hub3aeroq3 is everything that is wrong about VQ3 duel).

newsflash: top players are well used to playing a broken game. many us nonames didn't even bother with vq3 until it had decent enough netcode to be you know, playable. doesn't mean we didn't play other games or quake mods that (another shock) require aim.

If it makes you feel better to act like an idiot, then allright..

Anyways, yes Quake 3 is by far more succesfull than many other games.. If we look at prizepools, then yes, games as painkiller had a larger pool, but dude if we go back to when quake was played the most, the prizepool in quake was only beaten by the prizepool in cs and maybe sc over in Asia.

And then the number of tournaments in Quake 3, offline as online also speaks for themselves.

Oh, and if its not the amount of players playing a game that makes it succesfull, then what is?

Comeon dude, no need to argue that Q3 was an extremely popular game for both players and spectators!

And my personal oppinion is all the upgrades to Q3 is a way of ruining the game! It was a perfect game back then. All the upgrades may make the game better if you look on it from the makers site of view, but i dont need a game thats perfect for the persons making it, I need a game that is perfect for the players playing it!

Ever wonder why very few cs players switch to quake even tho many of them admit it is a better and faster game?

Maybe because it is a lot harder to win a random duel in quake, than winning a random ffa in cs?

typiskt

Oh, and if its not the amount of players playing a game that makes it succesfull, then what is?

What they're trying to tell you is that q3 did NOT have the most players playing. Repeat: Quake III Arena was not the most played game. Sorry!

Even funnier when people who actually know the programming behind xerp say it's a good thing.

beer mug C-C-C-COMBOOOOO.

oh please, 2 mug combo is nothing.

yes, because the cpm programmers are so in-tune with what makes great vq3 gameplay. oh wait, no, we had great gameplay before the switch. funny how all the complaining starts in the era of cpma in addition to a massive drop in playerbase. yet it's only the cpma team (understandably defending their product), its mindless groupies, and the very newest players (who oddly defend one side of a comparison when they know nothing about the other) that seem to think this all is an improvement. meanwhile, we sit back and watch the game crumble.

"flawed" platform or not. lots more people used to play with lots less complaining. we even hear people refer to years past as the "golden age of q3" or other similar monikers. unfortunately, unless the cpma team starts living up to its "for the players" sign on the wall, we'll never see those days again...well, maybe vicariously through demos....

people were referring to the golden age of q3 long before the CPMA switch

face it, VQ3 is too aim dependant the better netcode allows it to be more so

play CQ3 instead

thanks for supporting my point.

you're blaming CPMA for what VQ3 has become even more of

which is totally fucking stupid

you're kind of thick

he wants the game to be shit again so he can own with his netcode skills.

do you even play any of the quake games?

yes, and that has nothing to do with it.

no the difference is

cpm has introduced alot more players today than osp has done, why? because its newer and actively updated... is because its actively updated that you see alot of whine..

your whine is because you are an osp player coming to a "new" mod with changes... if osp continue to change you would also whine about that, nothing more.

this happens in evey game.

and then there is something called a placebo effect.

Look it up. It only works on people who have no clue about the medicinal/technical aspects yet they expect a certain change. And suddenly that happens.

Now, I'm not saying xerp is a placebo that does nothing!
What I am saying is that people can make themselves believe the weirdest things, without any scientific foundation.

And as far as i can see xerp is in the end nothing but a mathematical method, so I would rather ask the people who have seen the actual code that someone who "feels" he doesn't like it.

I've jerked around with my cfg settings and after two days nothing felt right. but then I turned xerp 1 on and things miraculously fell into place. hallelujah!

doesnt mean anything! programmers can write a code.
but they cant say that it is good for us. its our job.

also to write a code doesnt mean it will work the way you wanted it to. xerp 1 = smoothclients. but xerp makes enemymodel jerky and not smoother.

execpt "jerky and not smoother" is not what the only thing that lot's of people are complaining about. Especially since you can solve some if it by making xerp ping dependent.

if you read docs it actually tells you that xerp 1 DOES make the models look jerky and -1, which is cpma's version of smoothclients is better at this

A lot of this whine from top players reminds me of this:

<AL|EN> chg: CPM tele exit speed is 400, same as VQ3
<AL|EN> WTH ?
<AL|EN> WTF ??F??F?F
<AL|EN> chg: CPM tele exit speed is 400, same as VQ3
<AL|EN> ???
<@svr`> ?!~?!??!
<@svr`> ZOMG
<@svr`> !?!??!!?!?
<@svr`> !?!?!?!
<@svr`> !?!?!?!
<AL|EN> why t[14:28:39] <Pushpabon> cos after you come out the tele you do a quick circle and then jump
<Pushpabon> you get the double jump height if you execute the second jump within 0,4 seconds after the first
<Pushpabon> so be fast, go pro
<AL|EN> www.speedcapture.com -> Cpm -> Ranking Style 1
<ffslight> you must be extremely proud
<AL|EN> just sont tell me tha i cant run in cpm
<linkery> if you cant make rail tele to ya on cpm3a
<rurolf> defrag isn't cpm
<AL|EN> i DON"T want to learn some new TELE JUMPS !hey want to
<@svr`> dude
<@svr`> relax
<AL|EN> KILL AL TELE JUMMPS ?
<AL|EN> WTF ?
<linkery> tele jumps work better now idiot
<AL|EN> YOU ARE IDIOT !
<linkery> ok
<linkery> pope -> dead
<linkery> lol
<AL|EN> i do CONSTANTLY ONETELEJUMP to YA on cpm3a !
<@svr`> dude
<@svr`> that still works
<AL|EN> and now i can't
<AL|EN> NO !
<ffslight> congratulations AL|EN, now you need to circlejump a bit more
<AL|EN> don't tell me about strafejumping cos i am best running person on this planet
<ffslight> sure you are
<AL|EN> in cpm
<ffslight> and i'm the queen of england
<linkery> : DDDD
<AL|EN> maby you will see official ranking ?

whine? :)

most of the players who spend a good 3-4 years playing q3 competetive think xerp is probably the worst thing ever!

These players whines... ;) top players or not. A lot of people seem to still have problems accepting that they are wasting time in an inferior game that didn't stand the test of time. Tbh. i dont really care much if xerp 0 is forced or not, but i can understand the frustration cause CPM as i play is not ruined by xerp, but apparently VQ3 have been a waste of endless herding of the perfect ability to make strange movements with mouse to get a stunning 26.5% accuracy with a fucking hitscan weapon that with todays standards should yield much higher accuracy...

tl;dr: VQ3 didn't stand the test of time, play CQ3 or CPM instead.

They might be whining, they might not.. Thing is, back when osp was played, the only thing people whined about, was their ping.. I just do not understand why this game had to be "improved" again and again! As i said in a post before, Q3 was probably not perfect for the people developing it, but i think it was pretty close to being perfect for the players playing it! My oppinion anyway..

Wont argue with your arguements, because you are probably right with saying Q3 didnt stand its "time" test..

I don't hink there is any substance to the statement that vq3 didn't stand the test of time, and that we should play "cq3" or cpm instead.
There are highlevel online competitions in vq3 every single week right now, as well as ESWC masters, qualifiers and the main ESWC tournament. Vq3 is very much living, and even if there aren't as many players as a few years ago, the competition is there; plenty more than in cpm.
It would be more logical to claim that cpm didn't stand the test of time, or maybe even that it didn't ever really exist, because we have seen 0 big lan tournaments with top competiition in this little mode, which shows what interest the game has created.

I completely agree with your opinion that there was no reason to "improve" the game after 2005, when the last ESWC with q3 1v1 took place and the scene got a bit smaller. Why would you do that when the game has seen it's biggest days and it's biggest competitions already, and it was great and hugely popular during that time?

The game was on a top level, and light's argument here, to propose that cpm should transform from a small gameplay mode to the real quake3 because the activity in vq3 is lower, which is arguable in the first place, doesn't make much sense to me.
That's like saying that, hypothetically, if golf gets less popular and there are less prolific competitons, but still a lot more than in mini golf, which never was big and never had any big competitions, all players should start playing mini golf because golf didn't stand the test of time.
Can we please keep this at an at least halfways reasonable level light?

its a volatile subject this, and just 2-3 years ago i would be completely on your side. But now i believe that CQ3 or CPM as the primary 1on1 platform would be a fresh approach to the scene. Anyways, thats nothing to do with this subject, this subject is merely about trying to make people understand that improving the basics of a game: inputlag, clientprediction, stability, well improving everything is GOOD.

well a point that have been brought up by many... When was Quake 3 best then?
Was it best when it had +50 ms standard and no brightskins? horrible netcode, impossible to have equal games online?
Was it best when they removed the 50 ms, the netcode, while good still, feeling heavy and equal games was still impossible.... Or is it good now that people have great possibility to compete on fairly equal basis in an environment that feels closer to lan(arguably)?

The Vq3 people have always been overprotective about their game, its not really strange because i know how much time these players put into the game, it really really sucks that you build up some serious lg skills online for example, just to find out theres a new patch that takes away part of the skill(leading) required to hit something...

Only the lg is more LAN-like with xerp, as far as i know nobody feels that rail, rocket launcher, sg, plasma are better with xerp.

How is that an environment closer to lan?

some people say you cant tell the difference between playing with an LCD or a CRT either... Anyways... As said many times and over and over, xerpclients does nothing specific to LG, some may not get used to it instantly with the other weapons as much as they do with LG, doesn't mean it don't work with the rest of the weapons, just takes a bit of practice.

Personally I find that my aim with all weapons has been more consistant across different pings. (On <20ms it's pretty much as it was but at 40ms> it's almost as good as <20ms)

One of the biggest things I noticed about xerp was the amount of air rockets I was now able to hit.

you saying xerp helped your rl aim?

Edit: Let me re-phrase it. No it hasn't HELPED my RL aim at all, I've always been aiming like I do when I'm on low ping, the difference comes as you get higher pings. XERP allows me to play with a similar level of play to what I'd get on a lower ping (But not actually better of course).

This goes for all the weapons.

strange. I've noticed xerp fucks up my rockets somehow. cg_nudge is sooo much better for rl feel. only problem for me is cpma is unplayable with nudge. :/

Well, I never really adapted to ping in the way most people probably have. The idea that xerp = MG/LG only is pretty dumb, it has the same effect for all weapons you've just got to get used to it.

it is this getting used to random retarded shit that kept me from playing vq3 in the first place.

What I find funny is all the whine when TimeNudge had pretty much the exact same effect in OSP.

It was fine to use timenudge in OSP but not xerp in CPMA?

And I've gotta agree, although the majority of the games I play are usually UK based (Jolt leagues/vs friends) but when we had to play further than NL all I could ever think was "This SUCKS".

I've realized over the years most q3 players are morons who'll blindly defend anything they get used to, be it clientside cfg settings, ruleset, maps or watever, so it comes as no surprise they get worked up over osp and it's shit netcode.

personally I switched to ra3 in the early days, since it's fairly playable up to ping 80 and never looked back. wasn't until cpma took over vq3 that I gave it another shot, and it took me about 5 seconds flat to realize it was 100% better than osp. maybe because I got to play it with a clean slate unlike all the whiners around here who been playing their broken shit for years.

ahahhahahh :D

i still visit ESR once every half a year or so, because i loved quake and although i quit, i still have fond memories.

one reason i come back is, ESR still has the capacity to entertain and surprise me! half-wit newbies telling accomplished, once-respected players how to play quake, priceless :-)

this cpm stuff.. ehm.. let me just say i'm glad i quit at the right moment!