what?

http://de.altavista.com/babelfish/

ok?

answer = newb forum nolifers ;EEEEEEEEEEE

I totally see your worries. These complaining peoples are used to their setup for years now. Obviously they are not ready to take a little step back - in terms of ingame features - for a greater good.

They dont see - want to see - what a game really needs to attract the masses. In my point of view It all comes down to spectator environments like mvd-demos and gtv-spectating. More spectators == cash in a add-based game. I guess ID is smart enough to figure that out.

So i think - hope - right now they are spending their development-time on those key-features. There is no time to implement tiny client-features which are not essential to the growth of a game.

But they will be implemented later no doubt.

Why should anyone take a step backwards?

What's the point in releasing a game in a "worse"(Using this term loosely here) state?

getting thousands of people playing QL would be a step backwards? it's supposed to be a game for the masses, not for the average "I'm the ultimate quake-pimp" gamer...

Obviously they are not ready to take a little step back - in terms of ingame features - for a greater good.

Why should in games features need to be removed/not implemented "for a greater good"?

the question here is what features are we talking about?
if only 5% of all players (which would be us hardcore fans - maybe even less than 5%..) take benefit of these features, they are pretty useless to make QL attractive to the everyday-casual-gamer imo.

I didn't speculate on features because I was making a generalised point.

But I can't think of any feature in particular that is in CPMA for example that isn't of benefit to everyone. Is the feature something you'd see and say "wow I've got to play this game?" probably not but that's not the point.

This is idsoftware, it's their engine, I'm sure they are capable of coding/creating some of the basic standard features from CPMA et cetera.

If CPMA was such a perfect solution then millions would already be playing it. Nothing that CPMA has implemented would make Qlive a success, if anything it would hinder it due to enhanced speed.

All q3live needs to do is copy Q3, make some new maps, jazz it up a bit, change some weapon parameters and make sure they sort out the ladders and rankings so new players can play new players, just like it was in the old day.

Qlive needs to provei the players with a sustained hospitable environment long before any gameplay tweak.

someone is mxied up

I wasn't talking about game mechanics.

In fact I was specifically talking about what you said is what QL needs, so good job there mate.

CPMA is the mod, CPM is the ruleset.

A step backwards for the "pro" player, not the game.

The game should be designed to appeal to the majority of the target market. Q3 already has all the features the "pro" gamers want, I don't see how these gamers think making Quake Live into Q3+Comp Mods is going to appeal to people who aren't interested in that level of play (had they been, $10 would have netted them Q3 to do so ages ago).

In time, if the game sustains a large enough userbase then the logical progression says that higher skilled options should be made available to the playerbase. Whether that is a Quake Live mod or a new Quake Arena game doesn't really matter right now, the point is it isn't necessary or wise to do it now.

A step backwards for the "pro" player, not the game.

The game should be designed to appeal to the majority of the target market.

Do you even realize where you're posting? We ARE the target market of a game like Q3. We were the ones who bought it and stuck with it. The ones that left? Not the correct target. If id wants new players, Q3 is not the medium to use.

I don't see how these gamers think making Quake Live into Q3+Comp Mods is going to appeal to people who aren't interested in that level of play

So a mildly dumbed down version of Q3 that is free to play with huge ads will? Do you invest in bridges?

Do you even realize where you're posting? We ARE the target market of a game like Q3. We were the ones who bought it and stuck with it. The ones that left? Not the correct target. If id wants new players, Q3 is not the medium to use.

Where I post has little to do with the validity of the argument, it might fall on deaf ears but that doesn't make what I'm saying any less valid.

For example, you are not the target audience. Read Carmack's interview on GamesRadar. You assume you are the target audience because you've played Q3 for a long time, guess what nobody is stopping you playing it just the way you like it, Quake Live just won't be some magic bullet to bolster player numbers for your enjoyment.

I have no problem with competitive gamers, I believe they are an important part of gaming. I just don't think they hold the best interests of all gamers to heart when asking or demanding changes in games, being a pro does not make you a gaming ambassador. I see this definitely in Quake Live, which could be considered a good game of park football being overly criticised for not upholding professional football rules and regulations.

So a mildly dumbed down version of Q3 that is free to play with huge ads will? Do you invest in bridges?

And you think aiming it at 3000 people who still play Q3 plus mods is a good business practice? Those people won't be satisfied, ever. id would be lucky to get half of them over and end up with a product that would alienate any new comers.

You have bridges? I thought you flew over water on unicorns in fantasy land?

And you think aiming it at 3000 people who still play Q3 plus mods is a good business practice? Those people won't be satisfied, ever. id would be lucky to get half of them over and end up with a product that would alienate any new comers.

I don't support either idea, actually. Making Q3 into a casual game will never work, no matter how easy you make the installer.

QL doesn't need to be a casual game but it does need to be more forgiving and a lot more accessible. They can always add a pro mode if the playerbase demands it. If they go with it off the bat they could turn away a lot of new players who'll feel cheated that a core group have an unfair advantage over them.

QL doesn't need to be a casual game but it does need to be more forgiving and a lot more accessible.

So... casual. Perhaps if you knew more about the game and weren't a casual player, you'd know the difference.

Guess that would depend on your terminology of casual. I wouldn't call CoD4 casual but it is certainly more accessible than Quake 3. Then again you're just being an arse because you feel playing competitively somehow qualifies you as an expert in game design or any matter related to gaming.

I wouldn't call CoD4 casual

This just in: ROFL

Then again you're just being an arse because you feel playing competitively somehow qualifies you as an expert

you got it right!

I can flush a turd down the toilet but it doesn't make me a plumber. I can read a book and say whether I enjoyed it or not but it doesn't make me a writer. I can play and beat a game but that doesn't make me a game designer.

Playing a game well doesn't inherently give you the knowledge to make a great game. At best it'll let you list the 'things' that enables you to play well. Those 'things' may not even be the same for a different player. They could also be 'things' that are to the detriment of that other player's skill but not yours.

I'm not saying that you can't be both good at a game and also knowledgeable about the mechanics behind it's design. Rather that being good at a game is not related to such knowledge. People act as if this is untrue, that their experience of a game or seriousness of their commitment to a game ("I play competitively therefore I know more than you") somehow measures their knowledge of the game. This is crap.

And in this case talking a lot of crap, does indeed make you an a-hole. :)

so you're saying that you understand the basketball game just as well as say Michael Jordan, just because you watched it on tv? nice.

"I can play and beat a game but that doesn't make me a game designer."

Too true, I'm sick of people using something czm says as an example of why their argument about a game is correct. Learning to exploit the gameplay (actually look up exploit in a dictionary before any of you bellends reply to this) better than most other people doesn't make your opinion matter at all.

Disagree with some other stuff you said though but + for that.

All the competitive scene wants is for a game to be quick and easy to setup and clean and clear to use with all the vital information within easy view/access. Funnily enough this sort of stuff also benefits anyone who wants to play.

Name some simple features from CPMA/OSP or whatever competition mod takes your fancy that benefits one scene but detracts from another?

Name some simple features from CPMA/OSP or whatever competition mod takes your fancy that benefits one scene but detracts from another?

Shouldn't you be naming the features that would attract new players over a vanilla install of Quake 3?

It's been a long while since I played Q3 but I'll say there were features in mods (and stuff like your own server and custom maps etc) that would be good in QL. Then again I recognize that id is steering the project to a new audience and our legacy is not necessarily the sole future path of the game/franchise. Had we been totally correct we'd still be a massive active community, as it is the thinning numbers are a good indicator that ideas are tired and perhaps need some rethinking.

Had we been totally correct we'd still be a massive active community, as it is the thinning numbers are a good indicator that ideas are tired and perhaps need some rethinking.

What's this "we" stuff? By your own admission, you haven't played the game in a long time, and I'm sure you decided to dodge the fruit of his question because you couldn't even begin to name any of the features he's talking about without rushing off to google. The thinning numbers are for many reasons, but it's not the audience at fault, it's the developer. The problem is, and always has been, a completely disconnected relationship between id and the community. id doesn't even hold their own conventions.

Features don't attract players but lacking them will put players off.

i think i recall seeing id saying that the hardcore q3 audience is not their target..

They did although some still can't quite grasp that because this was meant to be their magic bullet to bring their game back to life.

i cant understand a thing in that sentence

id software did say that, but some people can't quite understand that because they are clinging onto Quake Live being the magic bullet that er, brings quake back to life.

Of course he fails to realise that as far as I can see most of the people "whining" are quite happy with Q3+CPMA already.

Of course he fails to realise that as far as I can see most of the people "whining" are quite happy with Q3+CPMA already.

So why complain about QL then? Why even show any interest in it?

You have to be totally retarded to think any game release is going to totally mimic the experience you have with another game. id learned that lesson hard when they put Q3Arena into Q4 and everyone picked it apart because it wasn't Q3.

I hope id do implement stuff mentioned in this and other threads but primarily I hope they design the game to appeal to a wider audience and not bog it down with a million and one legacy prerequisites to satisfy 3000 Q3 faithful who ultimate are going to complain anyway.

You have to be totally retarded to think any game release is going to totally mimic the experience you have with another game. id learned that lesson hard when they put Q3Arena into Q4 and everyone picked it apart because it wasn't Q3.

This doesn't mean that it doesn't work, only that id is a poor developer. Again, see Blizzard being wildly successful.

I hope id do implement stuff mentioned in this and other threads but primarily I hope they design the game to appeal to a wider audience and not bog it down with a million and one legacy prerequisites to satisfy 3000 Q3 faithful who ultimate are going to complain anyway.

You already admit you haven't played in a long time, so what's going to change in QL? You can still get in on plenty of newbie FFA/FT/insta action on baseq3 servers at almost any time, yet you'd rather sit out and wait for a developer to cater specifically to you? How is that any different than these players who were expecting it to be catered to them? It sounds more like you haven't tried, are too lazy, or just plain can't make friends. You're a typical casual player, and no tweaking to Q3 is going to keep you involved.

You're the same type that was complaining to id to NOT fix Q4 into Q3, because you wanted it your way. Guess what? They listened! Thanks! Since you didn't get your fill in Q4, I hope you have fun with the 17 other players who enjoy the bastardized gameplay that you help pioneer in QL. Meanwhile, I'll be spawning more overlords.

I'd like to see Quake Live done right. For casual players and for competitive players.

There aren't any features in competitive mods that have a negative effect on the casual players, past the "But it makes the good players win even more" (This is less to do with the features and more to do with the casual players mindset of creating artificial rules).

In terms of game mechanics adding depth and balance improves the game for everyone whereas dumbing it down has negative affects on everyone. The better players will always win so trying to make things even for the worse players just makes it harder (See Quake4's default 1 armour maps).

When you say step back, do you mean a lack of geeky console commands Or is it the lack of what i would call very basic and now known needs of a multiplayer fps, i.e brightskins gtv ect...

ye ye, and we ruined ut3, and etqw, and whatever

Can someone tell me if you're able to change your settings via the cfg / console?
I hope they limit it so that only modifications can be made in the game menu.

More than limit imo. Console is just for modders/coders.

Cvar less, play more, go hoe!

Why? You're in effect advocating less control/freedom over the user's settings and preferences. Sounds like your position is based on your ignorance on what the console can and cannot do. Please stick with the GUI if that's what you prefer but don't push that on the rest of us.

I wanna see ogres in ql
and random headshot damage

and vehicles

FLYING vehicles!

with a BFG attached plz.

And ragdoll physics!

Don't forget the ability to purchase power ups!

and of course create/customize-a-character

I already have an ORB-like character, but instead of an eye he is a dick. that's what QL needs!!!

Play more Spore !

oh and we need blur!!1 lots of blur!

and limit the game to 30 fps, it's all you'll ever need!

Especially with all that BLUR.

why 30, the game looks great in 24!

still frame ftw :)

has to be playable on my 1990's gameboy, gameboy is the future.

id software deserves to eat shit,

Well they already read it....yours!

QL need more powerups. some kind of laser goggles, cloaking or perhaps some temporary wallhack?

sharks with freaking laser beams attached to their heads

Yeah predator style camouflage <- seriously though, the invisibility pu should look like that, dunno if the q3 engine can manage it though.

temporary wallhack? o.O

shurikens and lightning?

tits and fire?

You'll need those noobs pretty damn hard if you'd like QL to have a decent sized community :)

I really think one thing doom1/2 and q1/2/3 have that doom3 and q4 don't is a sense of humour. Doom3 and q4 can be fun but rarely funny let alone funnly.

and a general sense of style, really

needs more xerp

What really ruins QL is all the esr users that whine about it.

the proplayers are happy when it is very much $$$$ to win so it should be good for progamers when it attacts the masses!
i also think its good q5 is not sure to come out, so id will take more affort in quakelive.

the concept of ql ruins the games itself

At this stage QuakeLive will not support community mods. id wants to focus on a small number of game types. On the other hand, community maps will be supported and integrated into the game in some time.

ql needs the cpm mod to be a success but...
In my opinion the worst thing is unsmoothness of ql. Its soooo laggy even on the best servers.