as good as cooller is, i don't think he has a chance vs that arcade noob cypher

would like to see him make a decent comeback and make top3 tho

never underrate cooller

best player of history

easily

Haha well that's the end of that discussion then... :-D :-D

http://www.proplay.ru/articles/7155/

Cooller on eswc

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1473765

heh.

before cypher had god given aim

yeah, he went 3x better in one year, sure.

Edit: he won dm6, played just as he plays today. with *god* given aim.

uh yeah he did, 3 times is an over statement though

it's like the cooller jump from wcg 2002 --> eswc 2003

cooller was REALLY good in that tourney. btw it was asus autumn, so its really 6 months, not a year. you think he would destroy cooller on dm6 the way he did if he was not that good? i dont think so.

aim has never been too much of a problem for cooller. zero4, czm, z4muz etc had much better aim than him. he still beat them with superior map control, timing and positioning (even when z4muz was playing at his best, hitting 40% LG and 55% rail in OSP against good players)

to me, cooller's still better than everyone else in these aspects of the game. cypher's insane for sure... his play makes my jaw drop but his positioning and strats are just a few notches below cooller's.

maybe cooller will never beat cypher again. maybe his time has passed but i'd still rate him the best quake 3 player i've ever seen until now.

i hope cooller never starts to care again though cuz that would mean the beginning of world war 3.

I totally agree with what you're saying.

Even watching him play very rusty at gamegune his actions were still a joy to watch, I mean seriously his dodging and positioning on pro-nodm9 (or any map for that matter) is just as sexy as skint's face.

I hope he takes an interest in QL because that game should fit perfectly with the way he plays, effective rockets and not being pinned down by shaft the second you appear with the improved movement he should be well away.

dodging, yes. very important but i forgot to mention it. i recall some match on dm6 where cooller was waiting for RA. his enemy (czm iirc) sent a dozen rockets his way but he dodged every single one of them and escaped with RA.

interesting that z4muz won ztn in next game after that map... but without demo...
imho z4muz absoultly best sweden player...

the game vs jibo is awesome

are any of these games recent ? or taken from the time when cooller actually cared.

when he cared and it shows

his ztn games were light years ahead pow

i literally just jizzed

zzzzzzztn only

i like how you fanboys wont admit he sucks. "from the times when he actually cared......"

cooller sucks? now?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

wait, some more:

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

heh nice joke

god you are an idiot

nah, im pretty awesome and cooller has never impressed me so much that i would become his fanboi

yes ur an idiot


if walter say it !!!

walter also said he doesn't cheat

Cooller
when he did play on wcg2001 he was knocked in first rounds... unknown unkind did play in losers round of 1/4 vs PELE[PK] and did lose in strong OT on ztn (after that pele said that guy will be a big problem in future heh and pele will lose on wcg2002 ru vs unkind in match for a 3rd ticket)...
cooller won all in 2002 and after - old legends PELE polosatiy pow3r more young stars b100.death m19.Lexer IDL.Demon - he will win his strong opponents unkind and noBap - and he will dominate morfez evil jibo the newschool players... on international tourneys he won z4muz zero4 and czm best world players...
and on his last serious tourney he won some strong newschoolers like killmaster
and won new star cypher in fact

They just all envy and pleased when he was not first..Cooller dominated 2003-2005 everywhere ,shows good results in 2002 and 2006 , shows good results (2-5 places all time) in q4 ,now he yet 6 place this year ,but i think in eswc finals he will play better.But all times he was very stable, how nobody other players..all times 1-5 places.And a lot of players respect him, other just envy thats all..Dont remember , very hard to play with young talnted players, but he still try to be in top3 and its cool ,GL him.

yeah he dominated those cept when he lost to zero4 and czm and others. But only talk about how he "dominated" but not mention when he did lose to others. lol.. totally biased statements here. gd

STFU FAT CUNT!

hasn't he won every set against zero4 ever?

and take away hub and czm would have been half the player he was

still you're right, he has lost plenty

I never got why CZM was such a hero to everyone. Sure his personality is great, very nice guy and stuff but his game is weak. He has great aim on hub, but i've seen that stuff from Walter/Noctis too. His dm6 is not > cooller. His pt4 was pretty good but i think zero4 was just rusted when he lost to him. And his ztn is not top russian. So.. maybe tdm god status is why people want him to win? I don't know. To me the best dueller ever is cooller, 2nd being zero4 and 3rd is now cypher (he will keep rising even through quakelive)

well between him and cooller it's 1-1 in competition (very close 1-1) and that has to account for a lot

fatality zero4 and cooller are top 3 without a doubt, in whatever order you see fit (zero4 and fat have a lot of bo1 wins are they as worthy as ESWC wins? cooller has beaten zero4 in all their games apart from CXG which was an unknown result iirc).

4th would go to czm I think, but if cypher wins the eswc finals as easy as he did masters then he can have that spot ;p

Cypher is certainly more impressive than czm to me and I will try to explain why.

As far as I know czm has played Q3 competitively since 2000, attending many many LANs. He is a really great player but the way I see it is that he has a majority of the time played mediocre when the top competition was around. Look at all the LANs he went to between 2000-2004 and his placings in those. Even in the last few years when he was "dominating" he still wasn't destroying the competition. QLAN2 he lost to fooKi. Quakecon 2004, which I THINK was his first BIG LAN win, he lost to a severely unpracticed ZeRo4 in the winners bracket finals. He lost to Cooller in ESWC 05. At the CPL, although winning 1st, his iffy ztn game was exposed by Jibo. Most of Paul's recent big wins were based on his hub knowledge, which now seems to be null because players have caught up to it. Notice at the ESWC Masters how he lost hub alot and even lost to ZeRo4 now that he is active again.

Cypher was a top player in Q4, won the ESWC Masters in Q3 without dropping a map, won the QL event at Quakecon rather easily. This is all with half of czm's experience. That in my opinion is already more than czm has ever done.

Note: This is in no way trying to discredit Paul's skill in Q3. I just hope he does good at ESWC Finals. Actually he BETTER practice and show a good result. He was handed a free unearned spot and if he does not take it seriously and flops it will be an insult to everyone who believes in him.

it's funny how you would dismiss that 2005 loss to cooller and not mention how he dominated everyone up until that point in the competition. It's not like he did bad there. Losing in a close match. Even though a loss is a loss.

All the reason you give for czm's success you say opposite for cypher. Even though I agree that cypher is the most dominate right now, your other points about czm not raping hub now is kind of lame. You don't mention the time he took off for years, while most of these kids kept practicing for q4/q3 while he was away.

czm isn't that good anymore it's obvious. cypher is the best atm tho.

afaik cypher was NOT attending q3 lans for years, came "outta nowhere" in dominating fashion..yeah i realize he has been around a few years

the only thing i was saying is czm has always been around, was winning when the game was in a slump, and now that it has picked back up in activity he has fallen back down in placement. and i agree it doesn't help much that he hasn't been practicing alot. but when did czm practice alot? mustive been before my time. the only time i ever remember him practicing at all was the whole unborn saga

well this coming from a guy who works at walmart, talking about a guy who went to princeton and is attending caltech.

Yes, I'm attacking you personally. LOL!


walter = mr.Ican'tleavemyjob@walmart but all these others players who study their asses of in college like czm can do go to lans. LOL. Luls

are you fucking retarded, i never worked at walmart

back when i couldn't go to the LAN you are speaking of i was working two jobs

you fail at trolling

quake make up another story to keep it going!

i was too busy fucking your mom to go to lan

and btw, everytime someone bitches about me not going to lans it translates to

"you are so fucking good at quake that i can't fathom why you don't go to lans! no reason on earth is justifiable for a player of YOUR CALIBER to not go..."

got a point there.

but it could also translate to "a player with your EGO"...

theres plenty with more ego than me!

guys, dont be so smart, everybody knows that im not going to any lans because of my cheats...

im a lamer, just an another stupid lame child, im scary to lose somebody without my cheats... zero will fuck me like 102:-7 on any map if i will not be able to use aimbot and wallhack...

so i decided to play only online

haha qlr rapes 2ez stfu

its wrong to say cypher is not experienced, there are demos in cyberfight.ru of cooller playing cypher from 2004-2005, and he was already giving a tough match to cooller

SHUT up really

sorry.


czm explained it
he just never had the chance to go to lans
lanas he went:

* 1st CPL Winter 2006
* 1st Quakecon 2004
* 1st GGL Gravity Games 2003
* 1st VSports All Stars 2005
* 1st DC-CON7
* 1st QIL4
* 1st Questcon
* 1st Esports Pro Summer Championship 2003
* 2nd ESWC 2004
* 2nd ESWC 2005
* 2nd QLAN2
* 3rd Quakecon 2003
* 5th Quakecon 2001
* 5th BabbagesCPL
* 5th Cyber-X Games
* 6th QuakeCon 2002

cypher is better than czm?

cypher didnt even rule a 10 people game (q4)
cypher cant even win an asus! with some russian noobs

nobody is playing quake now ! nobody except some oldschoollers who practise some weeks before

no new talents

i htink zero4 has more clue of how to find the best of all time

wehn he says the hardest competionen was 2000-2002 than hes right
i mean the people stopped careing since than
even cooller said on the question why zero4 aslways lost to him : he wasnt hungry enough
great pople quit like unkind polo lakerman fatanlity etc...



so best player ever : Toxic :) na ok
fatality and zero4 are a good choice
and the posttime which lasts pretty long for q3 is cooller but he also won only 2 big events so...

Fatal1ty - Zero4 - Cooller >
Lexer - Unkind >
Fooki - Czm >
*

Personally I think zero4 is slightly off on 2000-2002 and 2003 is really when people stoped playing/caring.

All I'll say on czm and his "dominating" play is czm didn't beat his opponents they lost to him. Fatal1ty, Zero4, Cooller on the otherhand all beat their opponents to win.

Also for someone who could never go to LANs that's an awful lot of LANs to have attended...

he meant wcg and eswc till 2004 or so in an interview

Oh so he didn't attend/qualify for WCG and he didn't get invited/qualify for ESWC 2003.

Cooller couldn't go to any Quakecon pre-2004, tournaments which he was more than capable of winning (Which cannot be said for czm and WCG/ESWC2003).

right cooller qould have won quakecon 2003 for sure

And 2002!!!!!

yes yes

ilikeyou

your from iceland?
how the fuck di you make it in handball finals ? wtf how many people live in iceland are they only playing handball there? all day long

I'm not from Iceland, please divert all these questions to HNNS

Nah it was definitely 2002.

Maybe the scene as a whole did but with QLAN and ESWC 2003 I think you can see that at least the top players were still pushing as hard as possible whereas in 2004-> it hasn't felt like that at all.

oh please man, chill out. i think the top 3 are fat, cooller, and zero4. czm and cypher can't compare to the legendary status

oh and about the people stop caring etc, i agree that it is true many players quit the game but it doesn't mean the game is evolving any slower since they left...cypher is currently better than two of the best ever + czm so that says something. just because he is not a "legend" or "oldschool" doesn't mean he is not extremely talented and the best atm

don't try to argue that cypher isn't good just because he hasn't been playing q3 since 1999. imo it is even more impressive to me for this kid to start the game late and still climb to ladder to destroy even some of the very best ever in the game

oh and about the people stop caring etc, i agree that it is true many players quit the game but it doesn't mean the game is evolving any slower since they left

While I do agree that Cypher would have to be described as the most skilled q3 dueller ever I do disagree with this statement.

A large, active competitive scene always evolves faster than a smaller inactive one. I don't think why requires explaining.

you probably right now that i think about it, but i don't think the difference is that dramatic

Well it is computer games :D

cypher didnt even rule a 10 people game (q4)
cypher cant even win an asus! with some russian noobs

mda man... you genius

it's funny though because czm raped everyone for like 2-3 years straight. Cept maybe cooller who went back and forth with czm.

Czm has two big tournament wins (Qcon 2004 and CPL 2006). I would hardly call that "raping everyone".

Not to say he isn't an amazing player, but to put it into perspective, Cooller, Zero4 and Fatal1ty have all dominated to a greater extent.

yet you'll ignore the fact how horrid he'd rape everyone. Maybe he didn't win the finals in all the tournies, but he tore people up in stage plays more than anyone else was doing at the time. He still dominated and why you insist on replying to me with telling he only *LOL* won two major tournies is jokes.

Who gives a fuck, he dominated people. Oh wait since you think it means he never lost AT all you have to feel the need to reply with a useless ass post.

Now you'll post something about "oh stage play is nothing and only final blahblahblah" I don't a fuck because beating people is beating people except when it's online which a joke.

You won't reply unless you're some country biased trolling idiot like a lot of you fucks seem to be on this site.

Cypher is pretty much the most dominate atm with success in q4 and now cpma. toxic for a few tournies there in q4...

A country-biased trolling idiot - that's quite amusing coming from the person brandishing positive opinion about a player of his own nationality. I can't say much to trolling of this calibre, but I'll repeat the part you clearly didn't read: "Not to say he isn't an amazing player..."

Judging a player's performance on anything other than final results is purely subjective and therefore pointless. I don't care how much of a czm fanboy you are, you cannot prove that his "dominating" games weren't the result of having played weaker opponents, or players who preferred to give up and rush once they knew they'd lost, etc etc. I don't think that's the case, but my opinion is as good as yours, and they're both worth nothing. For "dominating" to have any meaning, it's got to be backed up with objective fact.

The original discussion had to do with why czm was regarded so highly. In that context, me pointing out that he didn't have the most impressive record is a relevant contribution. If you have a better objective measure by which to judge performance, by all means enlighten us.

* N U K E D *

Well objectively, if you take all wins from tournament matches, all games leading up to finals and such I bet czm would have a better win percentage than cooller did.
Just because czm is a american and I'am has no bearing here. This purely games won and games lost. And no games won leading up to a final isn't subjective as you say "oh maybe people gave up and rushed", doesn't matter here as he won those games anyway.

Please stop trying to make this a country thing, it's a q3 player thing. I don't give a shit where these fucks are from. If they are good at quake and won many games, then wtf does it matter if they are from some shit country on earth?

Don't bring up hub or map choices either. It's like any sport, people have their best shots,weapons, moves,dunks,forehand,serve,backhand, swim, sprint, maps. OMG THIS VOLLEYBALL PLAYER CAN JUMP HIGHER THAN ME WTF? HE IS ABLE TO SPIKE THE BALL BECAUSE IM NOT USED TO JUMPING IN SAND WHAAA.

?

You were the one who brought up country bias. I just said I found the accusation amusing, coming from you.

If the opponents Czm "dominated" were weaker, that accounts for the high win percentage. As soon as you try to prove they weren't weaker (on the day), you have to use the same argument as you did for Czm dominating, and that's circular reasoning. On the other hand, perhaps Cooller's opponents were equally weak and he just didn't care.

There could be many reasons why Czm's performances in the group stages appear more "dominating". My point is you simply can't say for sure. What we can be sure of is that Cooller (for example) was the best overall player at ESWC 2005, and Czm the second-best. Anything else is simply your opinion.

hehe <3 it's always going to end up being subjective anyways. Nice reasioning have a +

You have no idea how impressed I am by this response. Have one back :P

isn't the raping from czm coming from his style of play rather than the strength (omg i was gonna say strongness...) of his opponents?

You know you have these people who, once they make one or two frags, can just rape the shit out of others because of confidence, but on the other hand are just shit when they loose their lead?

I'm such a player so hence the question, but ofc at my level of play, i don't pretend i'm as good as czm :)

yeah i geddit he raped everyone but the people he lost too

how many big lan wins has cooller?

ESWC 2003
ESWC 2005
CXG (cooller is the de facto winner, zero4 2nd, elp 3rd with czm 5th)
QLAN
WCG RU 2002

They're the biggest in Q3 (He's won lots of small-medium sized ones too, but all more prestigious than the ones you've got czm down as winning). He also went unbeaten at ESWC 2004 (As did czm I believe).

CPL Winter 2005
CPL Dreamhack 2006
Q4 but still.

a national tourney is not a big lan event

forgot qlan

so yes he has 3 big lan toruney altough qlan was europe only

cybergames had 2 good palyers or what

QLAN wasn't "Europe only", it was open just because Zero4 and czm didn't go makes no difference or you can take away several Zero4/fatal1ty titles. QLAN had the majority of the top Q3 duellers of the time and Cooller won.

cXg had a some of the best Q3 duellers ever in attendance cooller - zero4 - elpajou - czm - death - chaoticz - z4muz - keeper - daler - fooki - fazz, cooller was the de facto winner (He beat zero4 2-1 in the WB final pt4 z4, pt7/ztn qlr)

WCG RU was big enough to mention in that list, it had LeXeR (QCON 2002 champion to be), uNkind (The WCG champion to be), Death (CPL Holland champion) and numerous other top Russian players who could certainly compete with anything EU/USA could offer. WCG RU 2002 is a more important event than QC04 and CPL06.

But hey, national qualifiers aren't usually counted as majors so I'll happily concede it. So that leaves cooller with four major international Q3 tournaments, two at the peak of Q3 and two just after.

and all bo3 nP~

ok 4
:)

cpl 06 >>>>> wcg ru

No.

Out of shape Cooller, czm, Jibo and Daler vs LeXeR, cooller, uNkind, death, nobap, pele, etc. (All in shape and active)

you are just heavly biased towards russians, and dont start denying that, that would be pretty hopeless considering all of your comments on this page ;)

And the players werent out of shape, also you forgot a few good players (zamuz, python, viju, destrukt, chance etc.)

And knowing russians, wcg.ru was probably even bo1...

CPL 06 isn't even in the same league as WCG RU 2002, it was BO1 but that's how they all were back in 2002.

Viju, DKT and Chance? Please, they aren't even close to players in the top 8 of WCG RU. Daler, Python, czm, jibo, cooller, z4muz were all clearly out of shape and far, far from their better form of years previous (2003-2005).

WCG RU just had a bigger percentage of top class duellers along with a heavily active community. CPL Winter 06 had a bunch of oppurtunists looking to make some extra cash.

I'm not "biased" towards Russian players, I'm "biased" towards great players like LeXeR, uNkind, noBap, Death and others (In the same way I recognise Zero4, czm, fatal1ty, socrates' skill).

shows good results (2-5 places all time) in q4

first six months of the game he was the first while version of q4<1.3

before in some interview he said 'i don't care no more' and then didn't bother :(

sucks :<

z4muz!!! - incredable

walter walter - who is that i dont understand...
new online hero??

i am a nobody

nobody is perfect

i love you so much

could you please upload some demos?

yes please

vs good players and NOT hub

please

He's the only American who can beat Cypher.

he's maybe down ?
he's like strenx never send demo....