Depends on your frame :>

Why did Jamerio delete his comment about wanking?

kdawg hacked my account and posted it.

k

you been infected. get that german treated before it's too late.

If only context existed.

It's not like 'less' vs 'fewer' where there's meaning in the choice of term; what does 'with hope' usefully communicate that's being lost? Or is the point the author's pedantry?

I await your response hopefully.

That just seems out-moded and flowery.

Ktnxbai, noob.

I believe, it does sound out-dated and strange. But don't knock the adverb 'hopefully'. Instead write 'I hope to hear from you.'

The reason it sounds strange is, that the word 'hopefully' has been softened, compromising its real meaning. 'hopefully' means 'with hope', not 'hoping'. If you are hopeful, there is a doubt that this hope is justified, so really, 'hopeful' is quite strong.

I boarded the plane hopefully, because of my fear of flying.

Oh noes nothing must ever change or evolve, everything should stay as it is.

damn conservatives :<


Seriously though, who determines what meaning or ever spelling is right and what is wrong? Just old books? Or maybe the present people who speak that language?

Certainly not an author with an abundance of adjectives in his text...

Strunk also addressed the likes of you:

"But," you may ask, "what if it comes natural to me to experiment rather than conform? What if I am a pioneer, or even a genius?" Answer: then be one. But do not forget that what may seem like pioneering may be merely evasion, or laziness--the disinclination to submit to discipline. Writing good standard English is no cinch, and before you have managed it you will have encountered enough rough country to satisfy even the most adventurous spirit.

then be it known to you that "hopefully"in this version has been around for 50 years now, as a quick google told me

also from there:

It is not easy to explain why critics dislike this use of hopefully. The use is justified by analogy to similar uses of many other adverbs, as in Mercifully, the play was brief or Frankly, I have no use for your friend. And though this use of hopefully may have been a vogue word when it first gained currency back in the early 1960s, it has long since lost any hint of jargon or pretentiousness for the general reader.

Are the last fifty years really a good example of a time that was blessed with good language?

please point me to any time that was.

and keep in mind that only because fewer people could and did write the language as a whole doesn't become better!

Yet, words have a distinct meaning. They are not like clay, one may futz around with.

I like the period 1826-1950

do you dislike metaphors as well?

Because they surely don't work with the exact meaning.


Words have always been in motion, or why do you think a word like the German "sollen" has 20! possible translation in the English language?
And translations in this day and age are obviously ever more important. Who knows maybe this discussion only occurs because a German wanted to translate "Hoffentlich"...


Words are exactly like clay.

At first the are formed, then fixated on paper and stay solid for a while but at any time they can be cracked down again and with adding some water be reformed.

And also please don't tell me you ever heard informal speech among common men from 1826. Which is my point really, cause atm 'hopefully' is not to be used in formal literature.

plz go back to that time

The word 'back' seems to mean that I came from that time. This is incorrect. It is a mistake and should be corrected as soon as possible.

wrong, bitch.

therefore hopefully shouldn't be ur main concern

And anw all of us know that he hopes he will leave on the noon plane. The example imo was stupid (the trying to be clever kind) and not the use of the word.

The quote somehow contradicts itself, since strictly following a certain ruleset (in this case "proper" or "standard" English) which defines the tools of trade without seeing the need for change can be considered laziness itself.

I guess it is a bit textbook saying that the world is changing all the time so it is to no surprise that a language does so as well. But I guess we have hardliners for this purpose, so a language does not become entirely bedraggled

And quite possibly the reason you may prefer the books from 1890-1950 does not entirely revolve around the language.

I think what he means is that you have to know the rules to break them. You have to be familiar with the standard to produce the off-beat. You have to write many simple sentences before you can write a difficult one. Etc.

I see it more along the lines that before you are able to write well in standard English, you will have made so many grammatical etc errors that by the end, you are just satisfied to be able to write in properly. You will come to the realization that standard English is the only way.

also, shouldn't it be "Hopeful, I'll leave on the noon plane" if it were to mean "with hope" because it refers to "I" and not to "leave"?
So, "hopefully actually has a precise meaning in that sentence...

You see me puzzled.

well, he is alking about the adverb hopefully which as the author writes should mean "with hope", just like the corresponding adjective, hopeful.
As you know adverbs are either connected to verbs or adjectives or they stand alone as a statement. Don't know the English grammar term for that. (Adverbiale Bestimmung der Art und Weise / des Ortes / der Zeit etc in German)
But if you refer to a noun (or "to be" or verbs like "feel, look, smell, etc.) you use the adjective, so it would be:
"I am hopeful to be able to board that plane" or "I will be hopefully boarding that plane"
Both times the words mean "with hope" but refer either to the person or the action.

However, if it stands in front of the sentence, seprated by a comma it becomes like the words:

Honestly, Mercifully, Unfortunately, Basically, etc

So in the end with this use of hopefully we just won a word, nothing else.



Disclaimer: I didn't check any of this and my last involvement with English grammar was three years ago, so here's to hoping I didn't make an ass out of myself :P

french recently started to use the word "juste" as the english word "just", yet they doesn't have the same meaning at all
french langage owned by the "just do it" Nike ad

Completly in french " just do it " cant be translate

not at all isn't exactly true though? juste un peu <-> just a little etc?

does that the German "just" is like the English "just", too ("just ein bischen")?

Nope, the English simply made a slight mistake when adding it to their language.

Adjective "just" is the same as Juste as far as I know (fair, equitable, even).

We also have "just" the adverb though which of course is different to the French. I don't know what the German "just" is though so can't really comment there.

was in doubt so I've checked
"juste un peu" is ok : here "juste" means "only"
http://www.larousse.fr/encyclopedie/#larousse/45183/11/juste
Seulement : J'écris juste trois mots et j'arrive.
so if the Larousse says it's ok, it means it's ok \o/

I was talking about french using "juste" as the english "just", e.g. "xerp n'est juste pas le problčme, en fait" / "xerp just isn't the problem, actually" ; the previous french sentence is just wrong

anyway maybe this barbarism will turn into a neologism with time if people keep using it that way, after all that's what living languages do

again, nobody in France would say "xerp n'est juste pas le problčme, en fait"... :)

indeed, I guess I'm not good at inventing these examples because I don't use this barbarism
but it exists, I schwear

l'affaire est parti d'ici en ce qui me concerne, y a quelques exemples
http://blogs.nofrag.com/Dr.Loser/2007/oct/29/...nti-juste/

I can't say I have EVER heard anything like that. The "drive safely" ads given as examples in the comments are actually correct and do not use it like the English word. There are one or two examples but they could be explained by the fact that many people don't care about how they write on the internet, and, even so, they're only quoting like two posts on a video game forum :D Frankly, I really don't think the Nike ads changed anything :p

uh, what? give me an example.

"c'est juste trop super le franēais"

nobody in France would say something like that :D

Just to prove you wrong I drove over the boarder today an uttered that statement aloud.

but you know the French, they won't admit you are actually talking until you speak English.

and then you can't understand them ... :(

french recently started to use the word "juste" as the english word "just"

Are you sure you are French? Or are you just backing some silly thread on a silly forum?

I should have edited to "some french", not the president or the pope or whatever
that's just anecdotic ofc ; was just mentioning it as that's kind of the subject in this thread
ps : fuck off \o/

fuck off?

YEAH FUCK OFF, ALL OF YOU
stop puting into question what I say
I hate forums

you hate forums?

The French can say whatever they want, voilą the beret, striped shirt, armpit hair, baguette and bicycle.are here for you!

man the cliche market has no pity, we lost most of these
beret monopoly is claimed by the green berets
striped shirt is the drunk russian army trademark
holland = tulips, windmills and bicycles
and armpit hair is a portuguese speciality. at least that's what is said here ; we are raised with this belief, so how could we claim it back ?

only the baguette is left of us, but for how long ? if we wern't cowards we would fight for our clichés, but I guess we take naps instead

btw : "voila" takes no accent ; if I'm not mistaken the accent on "a" implies a notion of distance. e.g. "regarde, lą !" - "look, here !"
but I'm sure someone will BREAK MY BALLS AGAIN about that, I should have better not told you that

voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį voilį
voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila voila
voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą voilą

You are mistaken.

The source is familiar. Is it one of them generic must get books to become a better writer? So you and fellow writers can bath in a circle jerk of gooey fun?

Yes.

way2notgetajob

stop embarrassing urself, idiot.

hopefully people will stop using it wrongly

hopefully you'll die. soon.

diabz woke up on the morning of Sept. 30th thinking to himself: "It is a beautiful day. God has made it for us to live it fully and make the best out of it within our given capacities". He then went on to logging on the ESR - a well-known gaming site - and posted the following comments:

"they dont have numbers nub"

"hopefully you'll die. soon."

Calling yourself diabz. Posting this nonsense day after day. On the internet. Mhyeah.

thx 4 ritin mi biograffy fag.

wat happen? you're not funny anymore.

In whose name are you saying this?

Horst Seehofer.

THIS THREAD IS ANGRYING UP MY BLOOD!!!

care

want some?

lol@this
lol@ESR
lol@universe

lol@u