You guys do realize that this is probably the worst thing to ever happen in gaming?

Even if you hated the game choices, the fact that this league is shutting down can do NO GOOD at all. The media coverage and outside sponsorship it brought in was the biggest any league has ever seen, and now that its gone it only shows that this industry can't survive.

Any organization to ever base their operations in North America (except MLG) has folded. CPL, WSVG and now CGS... heres a lesson to learn: DONT HOLD EVENTS IN NORTH AMERICA.

If you want to survive, be like soccer: focus on Europe.


FUCK.

can i make love to you ? ;)

not if i rape him first ;)

ahaah : ))

o_-

find a fold and fuck

beat you to it ;)

It shows that Games are not totally indifferent to economy.
As far as THE WORST thing that ever happened to gaming? No it's not.
Gaming is morphing as technology advances and economy fluctuates.

now, now.. don't get emo about some scrubby games in a shit format

.

say good bye to anyone over the age of 14 with any worthwhile skill then, while you're at it.

.

You last sentence is so true... I'm really scared of my future now.

Be a amateaur geek at a sport or esport. Same fucking difference if u break it down. :)

piracy is bad for gaming?

or

piracy is bad for competitive gaming?

either way, i don't see how.

.

no need to get all butthurt about it

the last part is more than true.

Well, at least there's still poker. Oh wait, right...

Damn, this continent sucks. I wanna move to Stockholm or smth.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1635648

word up.

for more good suggestions...

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1617441

Fortunately i don't have to move after all.

Unfortunately, it's far from a realistic option for me right now, but who knows within like 2-3 years...

I plan on doing it after I graduate (2 more years)

!

We could be roommates in Sveden and become BFF. :D:D:D:D

haahahahhahahhaha

LOL

maybe

=)

The CGS was the worst thing to happen to gaming. It turned a legitimately competitive genre into a bad MTV show. Good riddance.

MLG has it right. Hold a LOT of events in North America, and focus on only that. CPL, WSVG, CGS tried to do a worldwide event. CPL never got to be as big as they could have because they had 2-3 events a year, in the same location. Texas dried up pretty quickly, you know? Go around to all the major cities, one a month. MLG's system was great, that is why they are doing so well.

maybe using a genuinely popular game with the masses is also a good idea...

They're only popular because of the games they're using. PC sales might be better, but the majority of players in the US are console players. I think if you were to impliment different games into MLG (PC games) and it wouldn't last.

now you may know this better then me, but is north america more diverse then europe or the other way. I find it difficult to decide because america has so many different cultures mixed into it, and obviously europe has because they are all different countries acting seperately, but then again ive been told america treats its states like seperate countries.

meanwhile mlg is plastering their star players on the labelling of fucking dr pepper

i think it's absolutely fair to shit on cgs for its game choices, it IS why they folded

The day Clanbase closes is the day I will worry, cause that's what represents the real multiplayer gaming, imo. All these other attempts of making a show business from gaming by feeding money can come and go as much as they want. I don't care.

damn beat me to it

More proof of what I only suspected 2-3 years ago. Professional gaming is not feasible.

Well, we're fucked.

CGS was the BEST thing E-sports had. Sure, the games were questionable, but the advertising, presentation, and everything else was GOOD.

E-sports isn't going to make it if a league like CGS fails. People said "E-Sports is dying" and we usually said "No way! We have CGS, $25,000 a year for playing game (Which is decent)".

Now, we have nothing.

Sorry folks, nothing but downhill from here. From WCG using MOBILE GAMES, to ESWC giving away less and less money, there's nothing left.

STAY IN SCHOOL IDIOTS
STAY IN SCHOOL IDIOTS
STAY IN SCHOOL IDIOTS
STAY IN SCHOOL IDIOTS
STAY IN SCHOOL IDIOTS
STAY IN SCHOOL IDIOTS
STAY IN SCHOOL IDIOTS
STAY IN SCHOOL IDIOTS

CGS embodied almost everything that was wrong with e-sports. Gillz gtfo with your crap.

You obviously don't understand simple BUSINESS, or else you wouldn't of posted that.

By all means, please tell me the mistakes that CGS made that affected their business?

"By all means, please tell me the mistakes that CGS made that affected their business?"

So you admit that CGS was in it with the money mind set.

I got news for you, this is The Main problem with these organizations, they're in it to make as much money as they can and as quickly as possible, the result is a crap league like cgs; Crap games, Crap coverage of crap games, and Crappy people that will squel and drop everyone high and dry at the first sign of rough waters.

First CPL, now CGS, strike 2 IMO. How many more times are we going to see this formula turn out badly for gamers and gaming before people learn their lesson?

They need money to GIVE MONEY AWAY

It's pretty simple really. Why do you think prize money at ESWC has gone down through the years? Because they keep using older games (Which is good) but the companies sponsoring these leagues don't get anything back. No one needs a 9800GT to run Starcraft, Quake 3, WC3, Trackmania, or 1.6

There needs to be balance in a league. There needs to be good games, but at the same time, good financial support.

Look at WCG. One word...

SELLOUT

Tons of shitty games because those companies paid WCG to put them in their league. So, what do YOU want. Good games with zero prize money, or shit mobile games with lots of prize money?

Look at WCG. One word...

SELLOUT

Tons of shitty games because those companies paid WCG to put them in their league. So, what do YOU want. Good games with zero prize money, or shit mobile games with lots of prize money?


-Gillz, just so you know, Samsung owns WCG.
So WTF are you talking about?

I'm talking about companies like Microsoft paying WCG to put their games in WCG.

Knock Knock

Whos There?

Reality.

Reality Who?

Reality that gaming isn't a sport yet and no amount of money is going to change that.

Lol xD In it to make money. Yes of course. It wouldn't be worth their time if they were doing it for free. Do you host tournaments out of your back pocket?

And yes, I have given up hours of my free time to admin tournaments.

You have to keep in mind, I'd say it's a VERY safe bet that the majority of these "who needs money? play for free and fun!" posters not only live with their parents, but also probably didn't even actually purchase their copy of Quake 3.

Are you fucking kidding me? It's the idiots that try to play "professionally" that probably live with their parents. The people who play for fun are the people who HAVE jobs, kids, a real life...

and you're of the opinion that the skill level will still be as high?
I think you're missing the point of my argument. The people like me (career, kids, etc) will be the norm for skill level. Not intentionally being self-deprecating, but that's sad to me.
on the upside, the more that these "pro" gaming groups fail, the higher i place in the skill average. :\

I didn't say that...I don't care what the average skill level is. I play for fun and that's it.

Well there you go. That's why noone here's upset when a league drops, which makes sense, because they don't even care to watch, the league makes no difference to them. I'm the target market though. I want to watch some pros go at it at a level that I will never even approach. I was able to do that plenty a couple years ago, but it's been waning a good bit, and it'll just go poof soon. And that'll be that. I'm too old to care about playing all the time. I've got too much to do to spend my time playing a video game, though it is still my main hobby.

Well I too enjoy watching a good high skill level tournament...but its not the reason I play games. I have no intention of ever spending a significant amount of money to attend a tournament I would have no chance of even placing in, so it really isn't THAT big of a deal to me if they stop. But at least we have ESWC to watch :)
edit: and the ASUS events ofc

Many mistakes - went too big too fast (proven by other regions just about having enough players at combine to cover teams). Threw money away - big parties with celebrities, reported $2.5m deal for Fatal1ty. Bad coverage. Region 1 (US) only structured and well done region...

Quite a few (fundamental) errors - some quite easy to spot...

-Cash flow was completely dependant on advertisers.
-Only a single avenue for revenue.
-Their choice of games made it difficult to form a competitive thread.
-Type of league chosen won't work without an amateur league basis. Online doesn't count.
-Didn't focus upon development on the league. Alienated already existing community.

exactly. all these 'get the money and run' schemes crash and burn easily. you can't base a sports league purely on advertising and promoting bad new games just cause they're new. there's this thing called SPORTS in e-sports.

I mean shit, how poplular do you people think basketball or football or any other leagues would be if the fucking SPORT changed every week? Just doesn't work that way kids.

I see that some people are still confused about what e-sport is and what professional gaming is. I still see e-sports as something purely amateur and for fun, just like an amateur soccer match with your local club. If there is a so called "professional gaming", it sure belongs to Korea. This is the country where you want to be to make money as a professional gamer. Unfortunately, they mostly care about broodwar and warcraft3.

I personally never thought that the CGS system could last. The games they used were very disputable, it was actually HARD to watch a LIVE match ONLINE (TV isn't an option since they only were accessible on a private network), that american show only fits in USA and they seemed a bit too self-centered to me (nasty contracts,).

I'm not even sad for the people who were involved in this project. They made a choice, and I respect that, that I would have never made.

If you really hope to make a serious living out of video games as a player in some occidental country, applying to become a beta-tester for a big developer has more chances : ]

I totally agree with this. E-sports are here to stay but progaming is still a pipe dream.

Pro gaming is still a pipe dream because there are very few people willing to actually do something...Instead everyone is happy just to sit there and say "will never happen", "pro gaming people are idiots", etc etc etc.

Rather than being out there fighting for some structure, getting involved in tournaments, solving the issues that is holding eSports back. Right now the sponsors have the power and until people do something it will remain that way and we can all still use the line "pro gaming is just a pipe dream".

"Unfortunately, they mostly care about broodwar and warcraft3."

unfortunately? starcraft is THE game for professional gaming, so awesome on so many levels <3

I meant they don't have any serious interest in FPS games : ]

E-sports isn't going to make it if a league like CGS fails. People said "E-Sports is dying" and we usually said "No way! We have CGS, $25,000 a year for playing game (Which is decent)".

who said such bullshit?
everyone involved in e-sport needs to take thing slow and steady instead of bullshit like the cgs with no cumminty/ behind it. look at the esl, thats the way imho

and this is coming from someone that wants to move to Europe to have better ping ladies and gentleman!

Or play a game with a real future like Starcraft.

ha-ha !

who cares?

Gillz

and mojo

Gillz

thats what you get for picking shitty games.

Games had nothing to do with it. They picked popular games in the casual communities. The games were marketable/spectator friendly. In terms of a business sense, they we're doing it right. Unfortunately, it just went downhill.

.

If Indy decided to use bumper cars, they'd fail. You can't professionalize something casual.

Do you think it would have been different with Q3/QL or SC? I unfortunately don't think so.

The problem was only half the games.

That didn't asnwer my question.

With SC, it could have gotten quite a bit more attention, and possibly the promotion of the korean leagues and scene. Still doubtful that it would live with the way they handle promotion of the league and sport.

Quake would have killed it just the same.

Yeah, inside South Korea.

It's not just South Korea where the sport is growing - GomTV brings in hundreds of thousands of viewers from all around the world.

Its still unsignificant to the cause. The core of SC is on South Korea, outside of it has the same repercussion as Q3 in terms of "sports". Well, maybe the playerbase is bigger, but still wouldn't change a thing if it was on the CGS or not. Not like the North Americans are going to grow a passion for it like the Koreans, thats what im saying.

But the SC scene in NA is growing, along with all over the world. CGS alone wouldn't help, but it would have reaped the benefits of the already established growth and standardization. GomTV is already working on sponsoring tourneys in NA to help grow the sport here.

Canada

I honestly think that ESWC and WCG need to work together, make ONE league, and work with that. We can't afford to keep changing games, bringing in new leagues, etc.

ONE League.
ONE FPS 5v5
ONE FPS 1v1
ONE RTS
ONE Racing
ONE Fighting

they have to keep changing games, to get sponsors to advertise their new hardware needed for the NEW GAMES!

NO! worst thing that could happen, wcg is a joke. but eswc is the best e-sport can be atm.
sure, they might not have the biggest prizes every year, bla bla. but they earn enough to keep it going and the project will grow over time.
not because of sponsors that can leave one year or another, but because they have a cummunity behind them that respects the event and ppl who are actually intrested in the players and in the games, instead of phrantics that want e-sport to be something it isnt. hope eswc stays true, cause thats the way to go.

What's wrong with WCG?
You sound a bit biased to me. WCG is nice too, even tho I don't really care about games I do not play for myself. Therefore I'm looking more forward towards ESWC. But from what I've read and seen the last WCG (in Cologne) was pretty cool. They have a big community behind them too (not Quake tho, but all the CSers see WCG as their Olympic Games)

i wouldnt say that there is something "wrong" with the wcg,. its just not what i hope e-sport will become.
the wcg is about show and its fake. choosing games only because of money, asking random ppl to full the podium for better pics, asking random ppl to carry additional national flags... + things like the us starcraft incident somehow show that they dont really care about the competition either. i dont really know specifics, but from what i have heard the sc community would prefere another big tournament if they just had a choice.
dont really know about cs, but i think eswc isnt less important to them than eswc.
to sum it up, wcg and eswc, although similar, have a slightly different focus. it would be good for everyone if both do well, but in the end, i hope e-sport develops more towards the eswc direction

btw, you weren't online tonight and I'm going now :(
YOU BROKE YOUR PROMISE!!!

im here now!
your just sleeping early

fuck me... that was 03:30 man! Of course I'm sleeping :P
You lazy student!

personally I can't see it going anywhere until the speed improvements starts to slow down, right now a game is out of date within 2 years of being released. Having a league where the game needs to be swapped around every 2 years is just going to repeatedly split the community.

The best leagues are ones that stick with a game that is played alot, and loved by alot, alas economically of course it isn't possible for them to function forever if you're relying purely on sponsorship. No media or computer company is going to be willing to invest in old games that don't promote their hardware.

When graphics have reached a level where they can't be improved upon too dramatically, then maybe we'll see some stable games released that could be played at a pro level for 5 years or more?

Until that happens, I can't see a pro-league really sticking.

xeno

i think i'm the only person on ESR that is sad about this. I'm really really gonna miss everyone :(

Not the only one :(

not the only one.

.

Well no because the 08 season salary was almost over anyway. I'm sad that I can't spend another season in LA hanging out with some of the craziest characters i've ever met! Believe it or not, some people like gaming for things other than money :)

.

this is the main issue i have with the "pro" scene. its more about the people than the games for "you".
your reasoning seems to be that because the people were nice the CGS was good, which doesnt make much sense to me.

You're right, it's a reason but it isn't the only one... but it's the one i'm sad about! Because even if there isn't tournaments, doesn't mean I have to stop playing my favourite games which essentially means I have nothing to be sad about on that front because I can always just play when I want to =)

fair enough :)

i'm not blaming you or anything, i just vented what i thought about this whole thing :P

No, there's about two.

because they didnt choose quake 3 & starcraft

$$$$$$$ true story!

You're so fucking naive.

zerg rush kekekeke

BM MAN, BM

This is you lot's shitty vision of competitive gaming, 'esports' that just folded, not the time to call others naive surely?

In North America, their game selection was DECENT but ONLY in terms of a business sense. You're probably mentally handicapped if you honestly believe that the CGS failed because they didn't use Quake.

The CGS was a castle built on sand. I'm happy to see the CGS fail for what it represents to real competitive games like SC and Q3.

If the CGS fails, anything that tries to do what the CGS did will also fail. Doesn't matter the game selection. If you do what CGS did in North America for Quake and SC, it's going to fail just as quickly as CGS did.

Yes, I'm sure it would but I don't see what the CGS did as the right thing for gaming yet. We're trying to run before we can walk which is why these organisations keel over. Gaming needs a grass-roots model that builds on amateur competitions with decent prize money. The Russians do it properly.

ix has it right. Starcraft didn't make it to where it is all at once, and no other game can possibly hope to achieve that level of success without time and effort.

This generation is filled with the "I WANT IT NOW" mentality, and it's extremely destructive for what professional gaming really needs.

much more quickly, actually. it wouldn't make it out of "pilot" status.

Maybe not. Q3 imo is different than all other games. Is the only game that watched games with some friends and kept asking for more. Some even came to my house, just for that, to watch q3 demos. That is really something!

The obvious assumption is the one that all gaming leagues like CGS are doing, that games like q3 will fail. It's most probably true, but I am not 100% convinced. ESWC that used q3 a lot is still here and going well. CPL became famous because of q3 and CS.

But would definitely not like CGS to have used Q3, because of the way they presented the games, which was like a Circus with Clowns. Q3 didn’t fit in that format.

A step forward for E-sports. I'm thanking the gaming gods on this day.

youre a fucking idiot

Mojo the would be sellout calling me a fucking idiot because he couldn't cut it to get paid 15k a year being a CGS PRO!

Well Mojo guess what, I hope teams like 3D and complexity take a fucking hike, these guys sold out their souls and ended up finally having to learn the hard way like the rest of us. Now maybe the true sport of e-sports can get back on course and start making some real progress. I personally hope you and your prescious CGS pals are done with gaming because its time for a newer better generation of e-sports.

All these pros that are going to be flooded back into the market as free agents and will be forced now to take real action if they want to have a hope of cutting it in the real gritty gaming world are going to find out just how shitty it is. We will now be seeing which of these so called "professionals" are really in it for gaming as a sport, or were just in it for the money all along (same as the CGS Founders who also tried to again exploit gamers like Angel Munoz did but on a larger scale than CPL).

We'll see how many of these guys really were sellouts(you) and who wants this sport to go somewhere.

You think I don't want esports to go forward? CGS was the best thing to happen to American esports in a looong time. Major media coverage, big sponsorship from non gaming companies... I'm not selling out.

I haven't been paid a single cent by CGS in any way, so yeah I'm definitely selling out.

Do you understand the reprocussions that are going to come from this? It was the biggest league with the most money, and when that crashes and burns, its going to have a ripple effect. Other companies are going to look at this example and only have negative opinions about getting into gaming, and then they will back off. It will limit the amount of sponsorship dollars coming in, which is what runs this industry.

Yeah, some leagues will survive. ESL, WCG and ESWC, but the only one of those that has been going uphill is ESL. Now that the CGS is gone, these leagues need to step up or else the whole industry will crash and burn.

Heard it all before, and it won't be the last time.

Next.

maybe to american esports... over here in euroland it had no impact at all. Prolly why you feel the loss more than we.
_
xeno

How can you honestly say that? CGS might not have had the best tournament structure or any of your favourite games, but it brought competitive gaming into the mainstream media like no other league has managed to do in countries outside of Korea.

nobody really cared anyway, hence they didn't reveal their ratings figures

it was just a cheesy gameshow for non-existing TV audiences.

thats what everyone thinks but i think that all the msgs from randoms that i get saying "oh i saw u on tv" says otherwise. Sure maybe not in the millions but at least it was doing SOMETHING for esports.

"esports" means nothing if the games are unskilled and if this is the case then i'm glad it fails

why are the games unskilled?

because grass is green

Don't even bother asking that Liefje. Remember, you're dealing with hardcore Quake players that SWEAR the only e-sports game out there is Quake.

Just avoid them =)

noone is looking down on starcraft, and afair aquashark is a fighting game fan... ;)

I could accept starcraft to join that list, but that's about it.

Dumb. You can't compare the learning curve of SC or Q3 to games like PGR3, DOA... and besides the laughable game selection, the game rules where obviously casual (I've heard about dumb timelimits or stuff like that, don't remember/care).

This also replies to Liefje.

PGR/forza I can agree with you, plus the rules were so random. But I found it way easier to learn quake basics than DOA basics :) I think the learning curve would be just up to your own personal preferences, some games you might find easier than others, but it might not be the same games everyone finds easy.

Forza is actually a sim, and nearly on par with Gran Turismo, so that comparison is incorrect.

well there is my point exactly, i don't find it that hard to pick up whereas other people might ;) anyway i was more referring to the rules of forza, they were so random.

Oh, I mainly meant the learning curve he was talking about when he mentioned PGR3. Forza is much more difficult than something like PGR. =P

Forza 2 surpases any GT game released.

I prefer GT4, but I'm sure GT5 will be better than Forza on any level.

Hell no.

Hell yes.

Not better than Forza 2. I don't think so.

Except it will be.

In any case, at the long run Q3 is a harder game than DOA.

ROFL, coming from the guy who wrote an article called "E-Sports Winnings - Downhill?" based on the prize purses for Quake 3... priceless.

if it was so great why did they quit?

doesn't make sense to me.

Even if "nobody" cared its always good with exposure. No one likes commersial on TV, but we still buy the shit we see in the dentist/washing commersials anyway. So this is a sad day for esports indeed.

exposure to where? why did you think they closed the whole thing? hint: bad ratings.

and i'm glad CGS wasn't even remotely successful because what i'd hate more than CGS would be more CGS format clones.

It was awesome to see gaming on Eurosport! You can argue about the game selection but still it was GAMING on a MAJOR sport channel!

cant say im surprised by this.
tis sad sure but i still think "esports" is feasible, just needs to grow naturally. most of these leagues and stuff are run by suits looking to make a quick buck so they cram it into existence

I'm xou and I approve of this post.

me too :)

feel free to hold your breath.

finally..

HELL IT'S ABOUT TIME!

Did any of you gamers watch any of the games you don't play? I think tthe figures for that are very low. Try to then think of a spectator watching these games..

Quake3 is exciting because we know whats going on, but to almost anyone else its just a blur of colours. How many quake3 players are there now? only a few thousand at most.

If I am an advertiser thats not feasible.

The difference is Starcraft/Warcraft 3 where it has reached critical mass in a country where it is very acceptable, almost trendy to play these games.. their whole culture is geared towards it..

World of Warcraft and Counterstrike will prevail because of the Sheer numbers who play them..

If some universal FPS comes out in which thousands upon thousands play then it has a chance to reach the critical mass needed to advertise itself, only then can it start to go to TV etc. Quake3live has a vague chance at this because it is free.

Sorry, but quake is not that 'complex' can be explained in a few seconds.

"two players with different weapons in a area called map, with a few important items laying around".

And, you don't have to fully understand a game to enjoy it. Most people don't understand the offside rule in Soccer, but they still watch it.

You're missing the point. Quake isn't able to be broadcasted on TV to a mainstream audience. It's too complex, games can last over an hour, and quite frankly, people can find it boring.

Games like CS are a lot simpler, and more exciting because there is more people in the game, etc.

You're an idiot if you think CGS failed because it didn't have Quake.

Thats not true at all, CS is one of the most complicated games to follow for people who dont watch. But thats besides the point.

Not exactly what I meant. My main point was that CS is easier to watch, more entertaining, etc. Yes it's a complicated game, but it's a lot slower and easier to watch.

Is it fuck, you're full of it.

Having played CS since beta in net cafes and quake since the advent of quakeworld I can safely say that quake, both duels and teamdm/ctf, is easier to understand (on a basic enough level to spectate), more watchable and more entertaining than CS.

From the perspective of an unitiated spectator:

Walking around mundane urban environments? Lot's of time spent being cautious, covering angles, seeking cover and not in direct conflict? 'Spray and pray' (as it appears when watching - I know it's not when playing) with the odd flick headshot?

Compared with:

Demonic/Lovecraftian/futuristic maps? Fast paced gameplay with advanced movement that sees players flying around the map? Multiple weapon types with flashy effects? Air rockets? Flick rails? Shaft juggling?

The only thing holding quake back is numbers, pure and simple. Garner a larger playerbase from the ground up and enough players of sufficent skill will filter through to the top so that you're not looking at 5 outstanding players at a given time but 50 or 100.

Unfortunately as quake is getting long in the tooth it would be beyond optimistic to hope that quake 3 becomes as big as CS. We can only hope that Live and q5 rejuvinate the series and bring in new blood to what is arguably the greatest competitive FPS.

CGS was positive in that we saw players being offered real salaries, proper coverage on premium channels (e.g. Sky One) and a huge potential for advertisers to fund the scene. However it clearly lacked the sort of community, expertise and grassroots knowledge to be anything more than a way for a few enterpeneurs with little interest in gaming to make a few bucks.

For something on that scale to work it needs to be a lot more naturalistic, building slowly but surely from the ground up and being boosted by investment (not artificially inflated by money when there is no guarantee of equitable return).

Anyways quake and games like it have the potential to be the next sports phenomenon, in a similar vein to Snooker or Tennis. Until then we can support communities by helping new players, attending and if possible helping to fund LANs and ensuring that there is a consistently high level of competition at whatever level of play we're at.

Well that turned into a bit tl;dr but I genuinely love quake and would like to see it flourish :>

dtm

I wish you were registered so I could plus you.

Of course I prefer deathmatch over realistic games, but I'm not entirely sure the majority of people do. Over the years I have shown a bunch of friends q3 matches and I have got mixed reactions from them. Some love the speed, aim and action deathmatch shows. On the other hand, many just don't get it - it is too abstract and doesn't make sense to them. Strafe jumping, rocket jumps, being able to absorb rocket hits etc. They seem mildly amused, sometimes impressed by the aim but often they just want to talk about how it all isn't realistic. One of the challenges for leagues using unrealistic games is to engage viewers who don't instantly recognise the skills and techniques the players are using.

i've shown quake to lots of people, and while they may not appreciate how much skill it really takes to be as good and pull off what they pull off, they can still follow the game. Just make sure the spectating settings don't have picmip on or anything.

Why do you think its to complex? American Football is more complex than quake. Quake is not complex, difficult? - Yes Complex? - No.

In quake, games will normally last less than 45minutes.
Overtimes don't count because they are pretty rare.
Soccer will not last less than 90minutes.

CS is not more 'complex' but difficultier to broadcast, 10 Players = 10 'Spots' where action could happen. Many times there is action going on in two different spots on the map.

And no, i dont think that the cgs would not have failed even with quake, but i think it failed because every game that made esports to what it is, wasn't part of the CGS.
With wc3, cs, fifa, quake they would have at least the esport people as loyal watchers. Which is a basic part to expand into the public. And then their "dumb the games down to appeal to masses" thing ruined every game. Plus the 'payed fans'-scandal made them look ridiculous in the "esports-world".

You have to understand that yes, WC3, SC, 1.6, Quake is extremely popular all over the world, but unfortunately they're extremely unpopular in the United States. They need to pick games that are popular in the US to get any viewership, hence, the reason they chose those games.

But chosing games which are popular in the US and then expand into the EU with the same games and marketing, doesn't work. And every guy knew that before, except the cgs.

The whole point is, that you have to build up a solid fanbase, then you could expand into the public appealing to the masses.

Look at MLG. Hate to say it, but most Americans are too fucking stupid to get off their fat asses and install a game on their PC, hence, console. (Don't flame me Americans, I said MOST)

MLG does console and WoW, and it's the BEST thing the USA has right now. That's absolutely pathetic that the best we have here is Halo.

motherfuckers own a laptop to go on myspace, and a 40 in lcd tv. of course theyre going to play consoles and smoke out with their homeys

oh and WoW. Motherfuckers like elves and shit..bow and arrows

I live in Europe and Quake is not popular here. Is not fucking popular anywhere. Its still some sort of underground game to play compared to the rest. QL is the only hope left.

"And, you don't have to fully understand a game to enjoy it. Most people don't understand the offside rule in Soccer, but they still watch it."

it's mostly women who don't understand the offside rule ;-),
actually these peope are not really interested in soccer,
they are just being interested to be together with the people watching the game, pleasing their partner, etc. :-)

:)))
cgs was a joke, it was clearly a step in the wrong direction.
From the laughable games, the completely retarded franchise system to the awful show and the fake audience, CGS did everything which makes people to be ashamed of competitive gaming.

nm lads cpl will be back soon enough then you will have something else to whine about :P

THE RETURN OF CPL!

THE RETURN OF PAINKILLER!


HAHAHHAA

well that wraps it up.

What are you people going to do with yourselves with the advertising money for esr isn't there anymore either?
This is proof positive that it's truly not going to happen. I was bound and determined that it still stood a chance, on the basis that things like this existed.

The day that it's purely "for fun" with no other incentive, people like Cooller, cypher, fox, etc. are going to be gone, and the average 2 week player will be at the top of the skill pool.

what does this have to do with ESR? ESR is by the gamers for the gamers and hardly makes any money at all. Regardless if there are big money tournaments esr will still be here

what does this have to do with ESR? ESR is by the gamers for the gamers and hardly makes any money at all

I'm sorry, I was assuming it was supported by all these ads covering the thing. 'cause there's like 50 when i'm not on my home computer running ad-block. when they pull out (can't be long now) I assumed that would have an impact on the hosting. My mistake.

we occasionally have ads from companies but its generally just google ads we certainly dont rely on them for revenue :)

good. seriously, good.

This site is a fucking disgrace to visit without adblock. You get from "Quake 4 cheats" banner to "Find your Russian love/HOMO" banners.

Just stfu

im sure there isnt any real need to swear at me is there? if people stop whining and actually tell me what ads they find offensive i will forward on the information to get them blocked.... if you cant be bothered to do so why dont you stfu

leave Nicky alone!!

I c what you did there

your a fucking disgrace you prick

the DM community needs to copy the Evo2k model.
fast paced 2D fighting games are a niche too, but Evo is still around for 7 years and gradually expanded (regional qualifiers, better venues etc.)

Who cares who's at the top of the skill pool? Most of the people on this site play purely for fun, and nothing else. Sure the tournaments are cool to watch, but just because there isn't a high profile money tournament for our favorite games doesn't mean the player base will be gone. Plenty of people play pickup basketball/football/soccer games with their friends for fun, without any expectation of going pro, and many don't even follow the pros. In the end it will be back to what it was(and still is), a hobby just for fun.

Football was a hobby just for fun years ago, now a player on 1st div makes more money a month than you in your entire life on a work that cost you the effort of going through University for 5+ years. But since when has life been fair?

And football was much more than a hobby for any 1st div. player growing up, it was their life(and obviously still is). I have no interest in making gaming my life...Maybe they make more in a month than I'll make in a few years...but my entire life? I don't think so.

If they do it they love it, so they basically don't have a work. Also, you are doing your numbers wrong. Maybe not in a month, but playing one or two seasons in a top team can get you served for the rest of your life (if you obviously manage your money decently.) If you want to go to the "buying a Lambo every month" lifestyle, you need 5 years of "work".

Yeah clearly...I was just pointing out that them making more in a month than my entire life was quite an exaggeration :p

Now let's return to the state where we played games for fun and competition and not for the money

Money raises the competition and quality of play, it raises skill and takes the game to its limitations. It brings other countries together and the mix of styles is such a great thing about quake. Watching russians and their style/accel and control for the first time is so impressive. z4muz' movement, vo0, fatal1ty.. gaming would be nothing without the names and skills that have been reached

Yeah right. I haven't really followed the Quake 2 scene recently but AFAIK there haven't been any money tournaments in a long time and yet there still is a community around with lots of skilled players and online tournaments.

The main thing e-sports does is keep retards under the illusion of a viable gaming career.

You need a very popular game if you want e-sports to go mainstream, like in Korea. You can't shove Quake 3 matches in the face of non-quake players and expect them to enjoy it.

well, if Quad-Damage at Quakecon last year is any indication, the highest level Quake 2 is still "casual" level compared to the games that have had tournaments. Same holds true for the QuakeWorld.

Look at Griffin, very nearly beating Slasher in Q2. You think Griffin had more than a couple weeks to a month of Quake 2 under his belt?
Or Lost Cauze beating FienD in Quakeworld. Or DaHang beating Thump4.

If there's money, the skill level is drastically higher, simple as that.

yeah, 'cause you know, there would have been players like Michael Jordan anyway, regardless of whether he could put that kind of time for practice and experience in without living with his parents.
pffft

playing computer games isn't comparable to basketball. especially games like world of warcraft and carom3d or whatever games where used in the cgs. We don't need money to have fun with games, some of the best games I've seen was in cpm masters cup, an online tourney with no prices.

I can't understand the urge to make gaming mainstream. Its not like non golfers watches golf on TV. We already have a great platform for playing and watching our favorite games, it's called the internet.

but you need time and time = money.

get a job

?

a job gives you money and money = time

thanks for clearing that up for me.

you copied that from the wsvg/cpl dead news!11

yes :D

Gillz, Mojo...whoever else calling doomsday.
Look at the American economy right now. Big businesses are going bankrupt, banks are closing, people are losing jobs. Do you think it's a surprise something like this failed right now? The economy is in pure SHAMBLES. It reflects nothing on CGS, or gaming directly...it is simply the economy. Once America is back on it's feet, and things are thriving again...another league will arise, and hopefully learn from the few CGS mistakes and take pro gaming further.

Do not fret my little ones.

(unfortunately this probably won't be for at least 5+ years before things are back on track enough for something like pro gaming to erupt again...my guess anyways)

you're right. It's still sad though. In 5+ years we're gonna see all new personalities and it's never gonna be the same as it was :(

I'll be fucking 33 in 5 years. cba to wait that long to see big tourneys. Then again, true pro- Quake scene died with WSVG. :<

yeah, i'm thinking the same thing, i'll be 27 ffs... maybe i'll watch but i'd be too bad to play haha

heh, my son will be 10 then, maybe I'll start getting him ready to bring some pain in Quake 7.
:D

CGS was sad, but I remember that GGL Hip Hop league thing, with with Snoop Dogg as "the commissioner"... Jesus. Maybe we should accept our society is simply not ready to go outside the stablished standards.The mass is not going to pick up on games like Quake or SC, just like they are not going to go beyond RNB, Pop-rock, etc.

But it's the same with televised poker -- greats of the 70's and 80's, back when poker tournaments were first invented, like Amarillo Slim and Johnny Moss never made a TV appearance in their lives. But now we have 21st-century personas like Phil Hellmuth, Daniel Negreanu, and Phil Ivey being the main players we see on the TV. Old-school players like Dewey Tomko, TJ Cloutier, Chip Reese (who died last year) and Doyle Brunson are/were also still around and make their presence known on TV too (especially the latter :P).

In other words, it's a bit of a sacrifice for the Coollers and Fatal1tys of today to establish a foundation for the Cyphers and Av3ks to become superstars on. Lame metaphor, I guess, but I honestly think that's how it will turn out in the long run.

I heard Obama is going to put up the prize monies for a Q3 tournament.

He better. Why else do you think I voted for him?

I voted for cooller

business is serious business

:)

lolegd

and ppl going "buhu esports", like several already stated, its buhu professional gaming - which most of us couldnt care less about.

my balls smell terrible

seriously, go shower dont stink out the site :(

Sort of offtopic - anyone remember what the devil was that site's name with the blue background which was supposed to 'revolutionize' e-sports coveraging?

wsvg? or was that just the logo

No, I'm after the site that was introduced as sort of an "ESReality-killer"

duno then unless you mean gameriot maybe but i dont remember that being blue

Nope, not that either. It was blue, it had like an introductory tourist tour with next-next-next that explained all the qualities.

http://www.esfiworld.com/
this one?

Yeh :P

Gene Angel VP of Marketing, Co-founder

Uh oh, there's a new angel come to save e-sports.

haha

i must have missed that one

bet it is quakeliver.com - haha :P

Was that the one where the domain-owner logged to ESR just to plug his stupid site and got Vedic'ed ? :P

mh not sure, but its the guy which thinks that the Quake Rune represents a U :P

that would be the same site then lol

If only ESR followed suit... I wish!

you could always just not come on here :)

It's a love-hate relationship. I truly, profoundly despise the mixture of immaturity, idiocy and outright trolling this cesspit obviously attracts. On the other hand, I keep coming back because of an irrational allurement I am unable to explain myself. I'm done, overwrought and want to fucking eradicate it, once and for all!

haha

Smells like old-fashioned Snatcher flame mode.

i've seen you before! trying to steal news for readmore?!

I gotta disagree with what some of you guys are saying.... CGS was big but not as big as MLG is.

MLG may not have had the TV coverage that CGS had. But MLG has a HUGE, HUGE community and culture. They have sponsored teams and individual players, have in-house media production for highlights from tournaments and over-views. If you go to their website (www.mlgpro.com), you can see customized ads by sponsors where a well-known Halo 3 MLGPro player is holding an energy drink or sponsoring a certain apparel company.

The thing with MLG is that they've had a good hand dealt to them with respects to the Halo franchise. That's a game whose gameplay is consistent yet evolving (it isn't the CS, Quake or SC that is so far advanced ahead of the casual gaming that the casual spectators can't truly comprehend the underlying skill or what they've seeing). PC gaming has essentially become like the Olympic sport of Fencing. Only those deeply involved in the sport of fencing spectate events because to the lay person all the matches look identical and/or boring. This is because these leagues constantly change directions with games, the community (target market) is constantly struggling to understand what they are giving their attention to and why. CPL dumped many games and switched to new games over and over. Their brand name, CPL, constantly lost its target audience and focus.

I think the most critical elements to the success of an eSports league is a consistent use of a single game that has total community support. And it is this community that needs to be nutured, through media (articles, frag videos, highlight videos, interviews, access to learners tutorials, the spotlight being put on "all-star" competitors, direct sponsorship of winning players, etc.). And lastly there needs to be clear communication of the tournaments. I think MLG has excelled here. They have consistently and clearly communicated what games are on the next seasons lineup, what the dates of each event is, what the prizes will be.

The thing that these PC eSports companies don't understand is that their product isn't the games being slickly edited, high production value broadcasts with sponsor logos all over them. Their product is the community. They need to develop the community (their target market and their eventual revenue) of players that play whatever game they've decided to focus on. It doesn't matter how many bells and whistles the overall production of the tournaments have. If the community isn't there, there won't be interest. Casual spectators are the LEAST likely to support the company. They are the least likely to buy from sponsors or generate ad revenue.

People don't relate to sponsors or games. They relate to other people. Aspiring basketball players don't think about Spalding baskets when they shoot hoops. They think about Michael Jordan or Kobe or LeBron. And that's the point of the community and community leaders that help give it an identity that people can relate to. And in doing so, people WANT to support and TRUST the community.

Over and over, in the course of my studies as an MBA, throughout all my strategic management and leadership clases I've endured, the essential thing to the survival and success of a company is the competitive advantage of the company. What is eSports competing with? It is compelling to say that it is competiting with every other spectator sport. Football (American and traditional), Basketball, Baseball, etc. The reason for this is obvious, but I think the underlying essence is less obvious. These sports attract fans because it allows people something to relate to (wearing their favorite teams jersey, tracking their progress, etc.) and something to talk about. It is essentially the community, although it is so hard to see the community of major league sports when it is so ubiqutous. But how are eSports supposed to have an advantage over these sports? They can do this because it is more accessible to everyone and by building a community that people can be apart of.

I should probably stop before I get to much into this (if I haven't already). It just seems to me that eSports (with the exception of MLGPro) don't really understand what it is they are attempting to do. There is definitely vision, but no clear understanding of how to get there for these eSports leagues...

Don't forget that MLG was broadcast on G4 TV, which is much more widely available than a DirecTV network, including the fact that it has a Canadian subscriber base (I know, I'm one of them). This is also a large factor in its superiority over CGS.

CGS was aired on G4 over 9 shows covering most of the matches in the world finals showing far more than the "lifestyle" kind of content shown on behalf of MLG.

Good point. I also think MLGPro premiered on Sunshine network or something like that for a while in South Florida. (Although I'm not familiar with their recent stuff since I barely watch TV anymore.) I remember MLGPro in it's early years. They had VoD which was huge for them and brought in lots of fee-based membership.

the bottom line with halo is that you can go on and on about it's some idiot newb game where any idiot newb can win because of the controller and console and what have you but the reality of the situation is that halo is one of the least luck-based fps games ever created

even quake has a rather large luck element in it with the spawns and halo wins there too because halo spawns across all 3 games are completely deterministic (i.e. the exact opposite of random)

the same small subset of top players keep winning the tournaments, which is good for the tournament organizers themselves. there aren't any one shot victors like in CS that get a lucky run and never get heard from again, halo tournament scene was much more like quake where it was "final boss/toxic wins again" up until very recently.

while it's far from the perfect competitive game it's a very good one and a very popular one, not to mention there are enough in-game customization options out of the box to tune it well enough for competitive play. the major thing that separates mlg from other leagues is that they are not afraid to tinker with any core gameplay dynamic they can, vq3->cpm sort of adjustments, which is pretty ironic considering they're a console league

who are those one shot victors that you're talking about? :p the same 10 teams have been at the top for a LONG time in CS.

as much as i dislike mlg its most certainly a lot further along than cgs ever was. you see people walking around with mlg shirts on (which is pretty fucking lol though).

almost no one even heard of the cgs

i've noticed most of the people who buy those things don't even watch the tournament, they're just good at halo. my brother has never visited an event or looked at their website for anything past the tourney settings and he owns way more mlg merchandise than i do

this may seem strange but if you think about it mlg is basically emulating how pro sports work where people buy nba shirts just because they like basketball and so forth. in both cases the leagues have gotten to a point where they make money simply by existing

it makes no sense to hate on mlg or halo because they are only group that is managing to break the mainstream view that video games are for kids to have fun and should be taken as seriously as a game of candyland

you cant read or something. i was never hating on mlg but pointing out the fact that its been everything cgs wanted to be

and i've observed the opposite. i know a lot of people who know about mlg, played in it, or saw it.

PC gaming has essentially become like the Olympic sport of Fencing. Only those deeply involved in the sport of fencing spectate events because to the lay person all the matches look identical and/or boring

I'm not sure that this is true. There are a lot of popular sports which have complex rules, and they likely had this kind of complexity also when they were at their initial phase of development.

The problem with e-sport is that nobody except the gamers really care about it, nor esteem the skills it involves. It's the cultural gap between those who are grown up with videogames vs those who did not.

I would love to know the Korean culture better, but I speculate that their relationship with internet and technology is dramatically different from our. And I talk about the society, not the geeks.

They are right in saying that this has come too early. Our culture is not ready to it. When our children will be parents, everybody will have had past experiences with videogames and will be accustomed to internet. At that point e-sport will be feasible. For the time being it's an hobby, which has to be promoted etc, but it will not be mainstream for a long time.

lolograde's comment (#104) may be one of the best comments I've ever seen here.

I still check this site every couple months and the same discussions that we used to have in 2004 are still happening regularly. What does that tell you? CPL, WSVG, and now CGS are gone. ESWC and WCG are dwindling. What does that tell you?

This isn't a "sky is falling" or a "pro gaming is dead" post. I just think everybody at some point needs to wake up and smell the coffee. If pro gaming is going to exist, it sure as shit isn't going to exist in the form ESR wants it to -- the way it did in 1999-2003.

The whole movement is going much more mainstream with newer games that many veterans don't like. Either get on the boat or stop complaining. If you love the games, play the games. If you want the competition, the fame and the glory, switch games, it's not hard.

Or just quit. Pro gaming will probably be real and widespread one day, but it's a long ways off and probably won't resemble anything like the way we think of it today. Accept that. Move on.

fat -> games
djwheat -> eg

the world is back to normal.

whats the exact reason cgs shut down?

$$$$$$$

American gaming.

As a former CSS player I always was somewhat of a CGS fan, but I'm surprised they made it this long too.

RIP

Now I want EFG with p0s and clark back.

This is what hapens when theres no quake in a tourney !

next ESL.



Quality over Quantity = win

would be a shame for us to die before next masters season :)

something wonderful happening in the next season then? :)

maybe!

oOo

Not really surprised :D.

I hope e-Sport will learn from its mistakes.

Anyway, I still see the e-Sport the same way as before, imo, the only organisations which have a chance to survive in the long term are WCG & ESWC.
But remember, e-Sport is still fucking young, being too pessimistic or optimistic isn't appropriate yet. There is only one thing you can be sure of : e-Sport in 2008 isn't exactly how we imagined it 10 years ago.

good riddance

don't give a fuck about competitive gaming other than quake + maybe a little sc :)

that's what you get for no Quake and slamming Evo :D:D:D
http://www.thecgs.com/EVO_Fighters_Paradise_Viewers_Bane

when it's actually: CGS - Gamer's Bane, Viewer's Bane

Players that were in the CGS should regroup in a Free-Player Organisation !

no funny pics?

i do actually really wonder what the CGS' target audience was
i love playing and watching quake and starcraft, even cs but the CGS had _NOT EVEN ONE_ frickin game that i cba to watch - plus the show (from what i've seen) was a stupid american-gladiators-for-videogames thing
HELLO, 1989 CALLED, THEY WANT THEIR SHOW BACK
there's no real "skill" in games that have been on the market for <6 months - how could there..

my first reaction: expected.

Sup.

"E-sport shall remain an ideal."

I like this quote.

Sick of people talking "pro-e-sports is unreal". Get in line already, you are 1001st person to realize this. I'm just as sick of people saying e-sports isn't sports... yes we know that by sports you mean sweat and tears, but it's not what e-sports defines. It developed a definition of its own which combines best of both, real and virtual worlds. So shut the fuck up already, bummed out whiners.

8 Years ago we had a CPL, quake, and fatality. One major pipeline to stream money and attention through. Now we have dozens of international leagues for hundreds of games on different platforms backed up by biggest corporations. Is this not an achievement? If you think something died with CGS is probably its unholy idiocracy of trying to sell worthless games as representatives of e-sports, thus wrecking a concept that many of us wish to see popular.

Korea did it. ESWC is doing it... WCG (i wish it died with Carom3d) is still somehow doing it. MLB (i barely know wtf it is) is doing it. We are moving forward... without CGS.

I'm not a pro, never thought I'd be one, but I sure want to see someone being recognized for their skills in a worthy game that has follows e-sports concepts. Because it does take balls, talent, and insane amount of effort to be the best in something that is highly competitive. And besides, I just love watching it.

It will come, just not when you wake up tomorrow.

hurr i'm on esr, hurr i shit on professional gaming, hurr

i lol'd

Do we need any more prove that gaming is running on an inflated unsustainable manner? E-sport in 'western' society is about as legitimate as a pissing contest sponsored by a lottery. It is clear that there are just not enough of a support base to give out sums of money for some retarded kids playing popular video games. Why spend hundreds of thousands on sponsoring events when you can spend less on advertising on the internet and in media and have a far greater audience?

I can't recall any 'sport' that went in such a quick transition from being amateur to professional. There is hardly any concrete amateur structures to evolve the so called 'sport'. Only a handful of events are run on time without any hitches. There are no standards, no general consensus on what is even considered to be legitimate 'e-sport' game.

First 'e-sport' needs to get the basics right, get the structures and standards in place, get events to run like they should, have players and organisers accountable.

Right now gaming is all about the money, the olympic organising committee is right when it said gaming is not about achievement. Do you think any player or clan would attend an event without prize money where they have great expense to get to the event? Yet every other amateur sport is run in this fashion, where players pay money from their own pocket to progress up the chain to reach their goals. The lack of legitimacy of e-sport is probably the reason gamers are usually not supported by their peers unless they can bring in money.

Wow this post seems like Dejavu. :(

in sum e-sport = lulz

mmmm

Is that RIP time for compLexity and Team 3D as well? They all made quite a bet on CGS if I'm not mistaken.

Where can we see the audience scores for the CGS? I doubt they ever released any figures about that.

This shut down leaves a lot of unanswered questions for now.

http://www.mymym.com/en/news/15133.html

Looks look Team 3D is bouncing already.

Complexity hedged their bets by picking up 1.6 again (finished #1 in the CGS Pro-Am). Perhaps RIP time for Source though seems as 1.6 is still going strong with the Intel Extreme Masters series...

yeah 1.6 is fine with ESL, WCG, ESWC, etc etc ...

Fatal1ty and DjWheat will be the shoutcasters for WCG in the future ??

http://www.agptour.com/


( in fine print it says )

For more information, questions, or business contact us at contact@agptour.com


Im tempted to write an email and ask Jarod if he still think "it's coming soon, just be patient".



Oh and btw, CGS wasn't gaming, it was more like reality tv. Trying to sell people the idea that you can actually live off gaming...lol delirious.

As much as I trust Jarod, I think he's got a lot of pressure on him and his organization. Seeing a league like CGS with multi-billion dollar companies backing it fail and close down, doesn't make the future look good. I'm not doubting that he can do it, and I'm not assuming AGP is going to fail or quickly close, I'm saying that I REALLY hope AGP can pull through and do what needs to be done. Maybe bring us back to the 2001 CPL days for Quake.

Let's just hope for the best, and take it easy on him =D

Phew, thought it was never going to happen. Americanized drama made me cringe and feel embarrassed, put me off pro gaming. Listening to their crap made me feel way too old to be playing games, heck, come to think of it I've seen more mature cartoons on Nickelodeon. Did nothing to push esports across as what it really is, was a total mockery you didn't want to be associated with.

May take awhile to reverse the image they spent millions projecting, but I'm sure we can find a few positives out of this escapade.

LMAO @ ODEE

AHAHHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

less CGS drivel now kthx

and wow, gillz is such a fucking idiot.

:D

i laugh at everybody involved. back to job centre, eh.

Let's just throw out some more fucking insults with no reasoning to back them up!

Jesus christ you're dumb.

moron

Evidence please?

if you insist..

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1635812#pid1635812

moron.

THERE IS A GOD
good riddance

Hahahaha! This means that Fatal1ty has to try to compete again. Poor bastard is going to get served with the current level of competition.

he'll retire from retirement and go work at McD's

if that's his idea of fun, why not

he already has plenty of money from the last 10 years of sponsorships etc

i wouldnt have thought so :)

I said it before and I said it again, Fatal1ty will NEVER come back and compete. I know he said he will, but he's still in partnership with Creative, which is more money then he'd ever make from playing Quake at this time.

Sorry, no Fatal1ty.

His image would be ruined if he keeps getting served, so they have to try to promote previous wins and come up with excuses. Eventually, they're going to HAVE to get him to compete, though.

I give Creative a few more years before they fade away a long distance. 5-10 years ago you didn't get on-board sound, so you had to go and buy a sound card, not this days.

Besides if you really need a decent sound card, Creative sure as hell isn't the way to go.

As for the other fiddle shit they make, maybe they can hold on to their mp3 players but the competition is stiff on that market and they failed to promote their first Zens so Apple steamrolled over them, and now it's a bit to late and frankly with every phone now coming out with lots amount of storage and mp3, acc, wma, ogg playback compatibilities I see more people playing music on their phones as on separate players anyway.

Creative is in deep shit actually if not for the moment in the near future. They'll bail out of the sound card business as they did bail out of GFX card manufaturing business, just a matter of time and the rest of their product line will follow shortly.

Never actually thought of that, makes decent sense. Sure, Apple has most of the market for music players, and Creative WAS good a few years ago. Market share was 15-20% I think. Now, Sandisk and Apple are at the top, Microsoft is even above Creative.

But for sound cards, are there GOOD alternatives to Creative? I have a creative card, and the drivers for it are horrible, but I never looked into who offers other cards. You have to think, a lot of businesses related to music and gaming are going to need to still do bulk orders for sound cards.

As far as their other crap, yeah, it's nothing amazing.

You have to ask yourself, if those on board sound cards are really that bad that you want something else. I own a Creative X-Fi card, but the only reason why I bought it (and really the only reason) is because I got a face plate with jacks for headphones and volume control, which can swallow a "big banana" not the small one.

The difference between my X-Fi and Realtek on board sound is non exsistant on my setup, and I have sennheiser HD555 headphones. Sure the realtek outputs a bit quieter or let's say you can't crank it up to fry the phones, but in quality there is no difference, aside maybe that realtek has crap filters (bathroom, stonehall) and those, but does anyone actually use those. Also got SoundMAX on the other PC, which also does the job perfectly.

You got alternatives, Turtle beach, Razer, Asus etc, which by the looks of drivers all work better as creative, especially if you run a 64bit os.

But in a nutshell all those cards are in the same basket bin, so it really doesn't matter which one you pick, or if you pick them at all or just enjoy the on board sound.

And yes I know that some boards produce static with on board sound, but if you buy crap you get crap, if you know what I mean. When I buy a PC the most expensive parts are the motherboard and the graphics card.

For everything else there is the components of your stereo and a squeeze box (or similar).

I'll give you that, but you have to agree, the general public is going to buy soundcards. Players are going to think they maybe aren't hearing everything they can with thier onboard sound card, so they get the first big brand name card they see advertised. (Aka, Creative)

Plus it can be a placebo effect. A player spending $100 wants to believe it's helping them, so they will, and they'll tell their friends. Plus, if they don't have 5.1 onboard, they need a card(This is when someone gets a 5.1 headset/speakers because they think it will help them with their game).

Case and point, one of my room mates wanted a 5.1 headset and card because he thought he would get better positioning sound. I kept telling him no, but he refused. It wasn't until I mentioned that 100% of CS and Quake players who play in tournaments and leagues use Stereo headsets that he finally believed me.

I remove the pricing up there as i went to far, you get good pro cards for less as 500 EUR :), but you really don't need them in my opinion.

I just ordered a PC the other day and I completely forgot about the sound card, I simply don't need it anymore. I wont even bother taking the X-Fi out and putting it into the new one, got speaker setup where I can plug in my headphones, which was the major gripe before.

But yes, some will still go buy a sound card, altho I see a trend of people not really doing so lately. The on board sound is sufficient for most people.

I too would love better sound quality, but when I'm dealing wiht mp3s, wmas and some games I just can't justify a price of 300EUR anymore for quality or 20EUR for a genius crap, which in the end is worse as the onboard one.

The other thing is people who want 2 sound cards so they can do "2 sound tasks" at once, comes in quite handy, but for those I'd suggest an old creative audigy.

I'm not against creative, they just don't serve much purpose anymore. They are not that bad you couldn't stand it, in fact the cards are quite good, but not so much good to warrant the price they are selling at.

If i get a m-audio card for the same price as x-fi, makes you think.

Realistically, yes, they don't serve much purpose. Onboard is fine, and if you want a change, you need a REALLY high end card like you mentioned before.

I was just explaining why they're still in business =)

what good soundards do you recommend?

Oh no , not the cgs!!


... what is cgs?

Well it's not totally a bad thing. At least if someone is able to get the funds down the road for a real event maybe they won't turn pro-gaming into some sort of laughable circus show.

Canadian flag looks like it has a red nose : ]

fail

what a dumpster fire

E-sport and major broadcasting don't fit together, get over it. E-sport is cursed to be watched by true gamers, and there's nothing wrong about it. Get an education.

Not surprised, written many posts on why gaming in it's current form in the west is a non-profitable venture, i'm sure people proud and should be for following their dream. And as the Toyota advert says an absurd idea is the way to innovate. Finances are everything at the end of the day, no surprises here.

it was obvious this was going to happen, it lasted long enough to be respectable to some extent, obviously not by the game platform choices etc but yes

AN IDEA WHOSE TIME CAME TOO EARLY

So yet again the question arises, when indeed will be the correct time? ever?

Peace.

EG plz kthx =)

Yes, plz give us EG again. We loves you!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/me...ref=slogin

Just another point to prove. PC gaming doesn't belong in North America. People are too fat and stupid to get a PC to work (Other then WoW) so they play consoles. That's why MLG is doing so well, because every g-unit faggot playing Halo shows up to these events.

=\

Hopefully http://www.pcgamingalliance.org/en/index.asp

will be able to make an impact, and believe you me, if ANY set of corporations COULD make an impact, it's these guys.

don't throw in the towel all the way, in reality, PC gaming makes more annually than all consoles combined.

"PC gaming makes more annually than all consoles combined"

interesting. source?

In the link.
:\


Or you can go here, http://www.computerpoweruser.com/editorial/ar...umpTo=True

or here http://www.gamespot.com/news/6196181.html
or just google "annual pc gaming revenue" .

pro gaming takes another hit.

i really don't see it being as big as we want it to be

:(

unless we have a huge online tourneys with massive prize purses to make people study the game inside out then we wont have huge lan finals where the best of the best gets decided with out ping advantages/disadvantages

consoles seem to have it about right tbh as not everyone has a stupidly powerful pc that can play the latest games at decent specs

As long as pro gaming attracts only zit faced kids up to mid 20', there wont be any chance of it making a major break through.

Few years ago, I was following most tourneys, now, I simply don't give a shit, and the same pattern is showing for most people who grow up and get a job & family.

It's the same shit story as with Lego, you play with it, you love it, you forget it. Through Lego wont go out of business as it has a constant supply of potential buyers, those organizations don't offer any products, aside from showing you how someone plays games.

The only exception is S. Korea and even there, only two games are really the star of the show, but for how long that's the question.

agree.

lego is still awesome though

I always like watching q3 though. GTV never gets boring for me. I think what you say is for ppl that are consumed by what they are doing. They stick to one-two things. When they were young the one was computer gamming and they were playing non-stop. Ppl like me though, that like doing many things, will always like to follow the scene. Never spent a lot of time in computers games, but will never stop spending some time (even just a little).

every esports organization that closes down always claims that it was 'ahead of its time.' when will they get it?

When the time catches up to them!!11

Oh my god, did something terrible just happen? Something that will make all my favorite games an internets disappear?!!?

PS
Terrible news for all 15 PK players.

Oh, Demi-chan, I just heard the news! D: Isn't it awful? I was so looking forward to this. ;_;

Not really. They didn't actually have a functional business model. Meaning overall they were only damaging to everyone else in the 'industry'. The only people sad are those who fed directly from it.

2 interesting (also biased) columns about the cgs shutdown from the sk-gaming managers:
http://www.sk-gaming.com/blog/bds/19936-CGS_CGS_CGS
http://www.sk-gaming.com/blog/TheSlaSH/19934-..._sometimes

Those guys sure love suckin' their own dicks. Interesting columns nonetheless.

WoW, I haven't posted in a while been busy with real life :). To bad about these prof. organizations. I realy think if prof. gaming is to work the developers of the games, will have to host a series of tournaments and championships for thier own game/s. That way they get something out of it(they can sell new and improved games), the hardward developer get something out of it because now they can sell more hardware (more hardware means more sponsors). In short the responsibility would fall on the game developers to advertise and promote not only the games but some competitions which in turn would make gamers more likely to buy the games because there is some professional competition tied to it. So you could have the "ID invitational", the "Valve fraggfest", the "UbiSoft Championship". And if some of the hardware developer wanted to they could do the same either alone or in concert with a game developing co. and have the "NVIDIA Challange". Yes pay off may not be as much with this format but if they game and hardware developers get on board with something like that then there maybe more tournaments out there to make the difference for the pro's. Well, thats my two cents good luck guys.

well, there is quakecon, blizzard con

id games aren't played at quakecon, however.

LOL, yeah right, Quakecon.

Qcon now has officially ZERO Quake players on staff for the tournaments. Prepare for more Guitar Hero bullshit at the next event. Not only that, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual quake 'tournaments' would be 8 player FFA's and 1v1 Clan Arena.

Quakecon cares less and less about tournaments and the players in them. They rather run some bullshit tournament for the casuals where 'everyone has a chance'.

Kindergarden shit.

shocker...

I blame entry #36.

I stopped reading after a hundred posts or so. CGS was full of fail, it was just another league that thought if only we pump more money into hype and glitz up gaming for the masses we'll be rich.

I love watching games, I have games installed that I will never play again just to watch replays of pros or tournaments.. and CGS was the lamestt thing I've seen in a while. That wasn't professional, having crap announcers who "pump up" the audience is soo lame. Introduce people like they are about to fight in a championship boxing match. I'm not saying it should be run like golf coverage (maybe it should since that's on network TV and actually has stuck around?) but that was awful.

If someone who loves gaming finds it tacky and overdone, someone who doesn't care about gaming isn't going to stay on that band wagon long. They were right about being ahead of their time though, they rushed too far.

Each company comes out with a new league that will be the biggest, baddest, and most covered.. but the fact is if you don't start small and work from the ground up with a community when you try and go "big" you will flop. They see a league fail, and think IF ONLY we out due them on budget and coverage (aka spend more) we'll succeed! wrong wrong wrong. Instead of starting small and working their way up, they try and launch a huge venture and flop. It's similar to opening a chain of 100 stores nationwide, instead of one and doing well than expanding. It's a terrible BUSINESS MODEL which I keep hearing 15-20 year olds talk about as if they are a pro, it was setup for fail from the moment it went live on it's first day of coverage.

My hope? things will die down (US side of leagues atleast) and out of the frustration people will put together a few smaller tourneys to get the ball rolling that will take off.

they should use only one game for fps, rts, racing, beat-em up, etc.,
the game (or the multiplayer version) should be downloadable for free, so everyone can play it without hesitating to spend money on it or not. And the game should be played for a longer period of time, like 5 years (or even longer, maybe only graphical polish is needed, but current high resolution graphics in my opinion have reached a point where they are only hardly distinguishable from reality, so maybe no graphical polish at all is needed), not only one season. You can't just change the games every year after year, people need something they can relate to a bit.

But anyway these leagues like CPL or CGS, I don't know much about them, but I think the guys who made these leagues just profited moneywise from it, they probably are not real gamers, by the way the bad games they chose and how little they know about e-sports, it would be good to know how much money angel munoz, etc. have made from cpl, cgs, it would be good to know if they came up with something from their own pocket or if the sponsors paid it all.

Will this have any effect on the AGP?

Wow, great news. CGS turned pro-gaming into a cheap game-show. They're worse too. The Wheel of Fortune doesn't masquerade as a professional sports organization.