They tried, they can't, stop asking.

Sauce?

tomato

moms trolling on the internet. Welcome to esr

wow you're clever

elaborate please

Use the search function.

Done already, cant find anything.

they tried?

I've searched here and in the QL forums for it and I can't see any official statement from id. Stop making yourself look important and just say what you know.

This question has been answered a dozen times before, and I'm not going to sift through the broken ESR search for you to find it just to prove it to you.

Either go message sync on IRC or find it in the search. Either way, you're not getting the maps.

Ok, then there is nothing official about it.

It is, and you can go look it up yourself. I'm no spokesperson for id, and I'm certainly not doing your homework.

What homework idiot.

What homework idiot?

The same kind you didn't do in English class.

Search doesnt work on ESR.

It does, it's just picky and buggy.

If you are not gonna say it in two lines cba then

cba to point out something that has been pointed out about a dozen times in the past month, despite the fact that the thread in question came out only a few months ago and was rather big. If you didn't see it then, I doubt you care enough for the maps to matter anyway.

Ask sync or search. The end.

You could have summed it in less words than that, gj.

its funny who answering the question would have taken you less time than posting all this whine about how you dont wanna do the "work" for others

Maybe because this question has been answered about a dozen times in the last 2 weeks and there was a HUGE thread about it a few months ago? Search does work, you just have to sift through a lot of extra shit.

i must be stupid then cause i cant find any official response
why dont you just tell us what sync (?) said in you own words?
that would definitally take less time than reminding everyone to use the search function

I have, about three times in this thread already. If you don't like what you hear GO ASK SYNC YOURSELF. How hard is it to /msg syncerror on IRC?

They tried, they can't, stop asking.

was the only info you gave, which is basicly none

sync has never answered me when i msged him on irc, cant blame him though cause he propably gets a lot of questions he has already answered (geddit?)

anyway talking with you is, as usual, a waste of time so i will stop it right here

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1667162#pid1667162
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1668258#pid1668258
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1667877#pid1667877
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1667658#pid1667658

Here are 4 places that you are told essentially the same thing IN THIS SAME THREAD. This has been pointed out to this same question about a dozen times in the past 2 weeks, along with the LONG thread where we tried to get permission from map authors, AND on the QL forums. If you weren't involved enough to manage to find ANY of this, you should probably find a new game. New maps won't make any difference for you, anyway.

If you can't get the info from sync, that's your problem with id. If you want me to do PR or troubleshooting for id, show me the money.

Either help others or keep your mouth shut.

On this issue, I have. Too many times. Either others can learn to use the search function or they can keep their mouth shut. That goes for you, as well.

wow, you really cant read
none of these posts give any reason for what id is doing(if anything besides not reactiing to the isse)
and i followed all those threads

... how hard is this? They can't do anything. They REQUIRE author permission for EACH MAP created by someone who doesn't work for id. The community at large tried to get in contact with said authors and they failed. Unless you can magically do what the collective community could not, you will not get the maps. If you followed the threads, you would know this. You don't, so you didn't.

I thought you said you were going to stop wasting my time.

that is a problem. not a reason.
a reason would be :hubster wanted 200$ for giving id all the rights but id doesnt want to pay anything"
afaik there isnt even a responde from the map authors published

im bad at argueing over the internet, thats why i cant stop, although i should

That is not fully correct... the main problem at the moment with QL mapping is that QL is a product so they can't get the maps for free due to US LAWS (not even donation).

the maps must be evaluated and paid fully what they are worth. For a FREE game to pay up a nice sum of $$$$ to get maps is out of the question atm. In the future public map contests will come up and we'll see some new comunity made maps in QL.

So basically US LAWS dont let ID have the maps for free so they dont wanna spend money in the BETA for it.

hope you understand now why its stupid to ask maps...unless u wanna pay them :>

let's say a map is worth 10$ then

Because a multi-millon selling company can't buy ztn3tourney1. rofl

it is owned by the russians and they protect their national interests well.

lol :D

ztn is American though (I believe)!

You made an account just to try to point this out? I call bullshit - point me to the law.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2895/122935783333.jpg

"No one is getting ztn in QL, that would make QL a decent game to play".

"its a product so they cant get the maps for free"

lol bs

just search with google and add "site:www.esreality.com"

Jamerio says no

you can't argue with that guy, he made mario for the megadrive!

Mario was on the megadrive.

Am I supposed to feel bad for your lack of knowledge?

isnt that what he said? O_o

was being sarcastic

that said, I'm not aware of any official/legal release on the megadrive, a quick google found a pirate/hack game, there could be another I don't know

Jamerio being high and mighty probably had a copy of that as a playground child nP~~

oh :P

wait, unless jamerio wasn't being sarcastic and forgot he actually said that.

Shit, I don't like how Aaron always trolls each and everyone. But that dialog between him and Jamerio here made me laughing :D

mario on the megadrive?

i lolled

can i haz some cheese with that whine?

no, but u can haz a big cup of stfu

DM13 WOULD be a decent map, except LG and Shotgun damages are screwed up, and the location of armours and weapons are messed too.

No one likes T4 because it's mostly rail, and T6 because of the spawn issues. T7 is just too big, and awkward.

The only two good ones out of the 5 are T6 and DM13, assuming they were to fix DM13.

I hope DM6 dies =(

I hope it doesnt, and ztn needs to be back, no map is going to replace it.

Mainly the maps are fail because the weaponrespawn is always 5. On maps like dm6 and specially t4, this translates in a shameless instagibfest.

We can expect those changes once private servers are released, where we can easily changed such values.

I think T7 should be replaced with ZTN, and DM6 with Hub, once there is a way to get those maps into QL

=)

are those changes planned/made public or are you just hoping? I'm not following ql forums or news at all

There's either some other secret beta "in" club where people are getting some of their information or he's just hoping.

Personally I hope that the private servers have a "competition" setting that can't be edited (So Public settings and Competition settings).

Having 5 maps all with different weapon times or mega health times is stupid.

..which makes it just way more likely to happen :D

idd:<

There is but hes not in it :)

nah but dm6 is played with 15 often.
while 15 at ztn can be annoying eh. so its always 5

Cool, im saying in QL weaponrespawn is 5 on every single map.

ztn can be just as railheavy as t4

only it isnt... and neither is t4

let's argue

bring it on!!

i disagree

no you didn't!!!!

are u guys bff? your avatars...

you comin on to me?

At first glance they just looked the same to me :)
Maybe I should go with Kirby and we can all be BFF

I wish they would remake q1dm6.

Its a bad idea seriously. dm6 only works in qw.

If it was sailed up a bit, I believe it would work just fine.

most rocketjumps would not work and it would slow as fuck =p

just stop playing QL - that's what i did after 5 minutes

same here

I thought I'd never see the day when I'd plus nemecel, but...wow, here you go, man.

If id doesn't hire a guy like Lukin or Swelt to make new maps for QL, I'm pretty sure competitive Quake will be over.

I've said it countless times, but I'll keep going.

All of the current maps are the property of iD software.
ZTN, and pretty much all the other maps that are complained about being missing, were user created maps. I would like to see it in there too, but I don't really even think it's up to them.
That is all.

(And yes, I'll keep repeating it every time someone repeats this complaint)

They (id) can ask ztn, Preacher and Hubster for getting the maps ready for the advertising stuff, making some minor modifications to them for the ad panels basically, the rest of course stays the same.

Im sure they would be honoured to have their maps on the official, latest id software cool game Quake Live. If they don't, they are stupid in so many levels.

Question is: can id possibly even find the info to contact them with?

Why do we need to port years-old Q3 maps when this game is supposed to bring a breath of fresh air to Quake? Like I said before, they should just contract a renowned map designer to make brand-new maps.

Hubster: hburji@hotmail.com
ztn: ztn@planetquake.com

They all know each other so by asking they could find anyone they want.

We need it because no map is going to replace the sensation of seeing top players battling on the mighty ztn, a map that has so historical epic moments and that never fails to deliver tournament after tournament. Nothing would be more exciting than for example, seeing a newcomer taking a top russian on it. The breath of fresh air will come with new people, not exclusively by changing all maps. Also, the modified gameplay of QL will not allow the classic maps to be played exactly the same. Also, a "breath of fresh air" if you are talking about new players in a way of: "if you keep playing the same maps the same people is going to continue winning" is total bs. If you are good enough to take a top player you'll have a chance on all the maps. You can't expect new top players getting close to the best players in the world because all the maps are new so its "more balanced".

Just for the historical background, at least two classic maps MUST stay within the "next generation" for the QL mappool, and ztn must be one of these. A mappool is at least 5 maps, with the classics you know they will always deliver a good show, then you can experiment with other new maps to see how they perform on big events, but not going mental on it and suddendly changing 5 brand new maps and expecting that every single of them is going to be a worth ztn replacement.

I'd quite like to see ztn and dm13 + 3 brand new maps. Although I think ztn could do with some minor adjusting here and there to "update" it to QL/Modern Quake.

dm13 and ztn would be kind of a perfect selection. I have to admit it would be hard to accept DM6 is no more.

Would love to see Swelt contracted to make a load of TDM maps for QL.

- They would require the original .map files
- They would need to be tweaked for the new movement
- They would need to be tweaked for the new weapon balance
- They would need adverts put in (like you said)
- They would need to be re-textured & re-modeled
- They would need permission to include them in the game (probably some form of written/signed agreement)

And even then I'm sure there's more work to it, obviously we would all like the old custom maps but it's not so much of a clear cut situation for id.

Also, if I was a map maker of one of the classic maps I might just be thinking "Why should id profit from my map and not me?". Unless it was clearly stated on the load up screen that the map was made by Name "nick" Name or similar then I would not want my map in QL as there is no benefit to me.

- They would require the original .map files
Ask the mapper for them?
- They would need to be tweaked for the new movement
What new movement? Its the same as OSP.
- They would need to be tweaked for the new weapon balance
The DM6 layout is the same, maybe you are talking about item placement in any case.
- They would need to be re-textured & re-modeled
Its worth doing this oh so complicated work.
- They would need permission to include them in the game
If the mapper agrees whats the problem.

"Also, if I was a map maker of one of the classic maps I might just be thinking "Why should id profit from my map and not me?". Unless it was clearly stated on the load up screen that the map was made by Name "nick" Name or similar then I would not want my map in QL as there is no benefit to me."

People outside this community is not going to give a fuck about who made this or that map, only the hardcore that has been there for a while would notice. In any case the mappers could ask for "Blood Run Tourney by ztn" in the loading screen if they think its cool.

As a mapper I would care because it means that I could easily point to the map as being made by me and it could also result in a company seeing and liking my work and contacting me about a job (Rather than them just assuming it's id softwares work and not bothering).

Not all the map makers still have the original .map files so it's not as simple as just asking the map makers for them and if the mapper doesn't give permission that's a problem and nothing can be done about it.

DM6 may not have been changed item layout wise but it has been changed for the new movement, as has dm13 (See the tunnel to MH) which also has a new item layout. There is no guarentee that the QL movement will translate perfectly to Q3 maps made for OSP (And no, the movement isn't the same) and the new weapon balance could easily change the dynamics of a map enough to require tweaking.

All of that work is obviously worthwhile but it's still a problem that makes putting Q3 custom maps into QL difficult and not such a simple task.

Cmon, the movement is not THAT different?

Also, a mapper that cares usually would save everything about their maps, in varios backups. There are hours of their lives put inside these maps, and the maps are intelligently designed, so I tend to pretend the authors are intelligent enough to do it too.

Its definitely easier and faster than trying to wait for a map made from scratch that is worth the replacement of a map like ztn.

Ground movement is very different and strafing is probably a bit faster.

You must remember that a lot of these maps were made years and years ago by members of the community and not people who wanted to get a job through it. It's entirely possible that they thought after a few years of having no involvement in the community "Right, I won't need that again", or they simply forgot about them and accidently deleted them and the backups or even had multiple hardware failures.

id didn't even have all the original .map files for their own maps for a commercial product as far as I know.

We'll never know if its possible if id can't be intelligent enough to try to get these maps on their game by asking to them anyway.

In the meantime we are condemned to play subpar, boring, unspiring abortions of a map.

Yup :<

qztourney4 is pretty nice as well.

btw
we did send all the map authors contacts from various popular q3 (1v1, tdm, ctf) maps to id.
and afaik some of them where contacted. i guess they could not come to an agreement or for what ever reason didn't want to

get some new maps... seriously... bringing in all these old maps will surely kill QL

no, but you are killing this thread with your dumb opinion.

all bringing ztn and hub etc will do is perhaps bring a couple of hundred to a thousand quake3ers to play QL. John Carmac is aiming for millions of players (which is already pretty rofl). These players will not want to play with people that a) have been playing this kind of game for years and then b) have been playing those maps for years.

generally, getting owned and having fun do not go together. QL is a great opportunity for the game to evolve, even if its just a tiny little bit. New maps can only do the game good tbh.

trollalert: ZTN is overrated anyway, its very rail heavy due to its size and also the fact that there is limited visibility. u do most of your damage with rail shots and finish with shaft or rockets...

the match making is there to prevent new ppl from getting raped by old ones, new or old maps wouldn't change a thing about that. And i'd say even 2 newbies would have a better time playing quakelive on good maps than on bad ones even if those good ones are 9 years old.

good map for noobie /= good map for experienced dueller. Thats why u see them play space maps etc...

Again dumb as hell argument that I've already mentioned here: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1667700#pid1667700

Also, even if total newbies want to play in space maps, for the ones that want to play decent duel maps matchmaking would solve it in ztn too, and everyone would be happy (both newbs and pros).

noobs dont have the skill to be able to make cut offs etcetc, they would largely just run around the map randomly, picking up whatever items they hazard across and fight each other to the death when they inevitably run into each other. Thats why they would rather play open maps, because at least then they can see each other and fight each other a fair bit, rather than not see each other for 9.5 of the 10 minutes...

Cool, but there is people that wants to play ztn too, so add it and have everyone happy, period.

You're really having trouble grasping the fact that ZTN is not theirs to add. I don't know why.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1667700#pid1667700

So they won't play ztn anyway right?

but if they actually start playing duel more seriously, they will then have to face people that have been playing the same maps for over 8 years or so. This is the kind of impenetrable barrier that kills off duelling's appeal to noobs. First of all, the players themselves will be much more experienced and with the old map pool will know the maps to such a huge degree that it will be impossible for noobs to get past the noob level, matchmaker or not...

Newbs wouldn't be able to beat anyone on a new or old map anyway.

right, but as they improve and learn how to duel etc, there is still one huge obstacle in their way (as if learning to duel properly wasnt tough enough) and thats the fact that some people will have years and years a head start over them in terms of map knowledge...

New maps won't change a thing.

Imo one of the biggest obstacles is the maps if you are new to 1on1, a new map pool every once in a while would have a significant impact on who are top 32 atm, top 3 might stay intact anyway though.

Only if the players were inactive.

I wold say for newbies maps should be relatively small and not have many teleporters, so they can actually find their opponent and not get lost themselves.

That said, most newbies I know and myself back when I first played won't go for duel anyway. for them ffa and maybe tdm is where it's at...

But there is more people besides newbies playing.

Learn to play ztn.

QL needs all the quality maps it can get (At the moment it's barely got any) and whether they are new or old it doesn't matter.

id rather not play vq3 at all tbh, or QL for that matter.

then stop trying to make smart comments about things you obviously got no idea of.

im just going by what i see in the demos etc. Its usually rail rail shaft or some sort of combination of that...

Then I understand your ztn comments.

id should make a mapping competition, using the q3 editor ; then they choose the best maps and convert them for ql

pro :
-id get free (minus the competition's prizes) talented mappers
-we get new maps

cons :
-?

profit !

"then they choose the best maps and convert them for ql"


then they let some people who have experience with competetive quake choose (I would say esr but then it would be a HUGE flamefest)

fixed.

ZTN and Hub ARE definititely coming back. Syncerror said id has no control over what maps the community chooses to remake, so as soon as they allow custom maps...ZTN all day. i want new maps...

I really hope quakelive doesn't turn into a ztn hub fest like vq3 is. That would be horrendous. Those two maps are decent at best, but people cling so hard because they are comfortable with them. Play new maps, you'll have much more fun learning then running your same old routine. You'll get a hell of a lot better at you precious old maps too.

wait, are you suggesting CHANGE to the q3 community? you must be nuts

obama's fault

so instead its just a dm6 fest which is way worse

No it isnt. dm6 is the map everybody has played, ok im also pretty bored of it also, but you just have to play it, for the sake of teh quakez, its like the default you shouldnt touch it.

But when we move on to high ranked players, tourneys, etc, i agree with vamp1re on the ztn/hub issue. Time to move on kids, lets play some new sh1tz. Cmon Method do some awsome 1v1 maps. And id could "contract" Lukin and Swelt for 1 or 2 maps, like they did with arQon. And we all were happy campers till the end of time sprayin' everywhere and respecting the pacos.

pff just get rid of dm6 asap, such a boring, overplayed and random map, especially with timelimit 10 whoever gets the best start will win, but I guess thats a big reason for its popularity, a little luck will let you beat a player many levels above you..

Anyway, new maps > old maps, even though Ill miss dm13 when its gone.

First let these "new maps that own old maps" be reality, until that day ztn and dm13 are a must, and even dm6.

1a 3a 15 22? :(

+24?
4a 18r 21 27? for tdm?
oic cpm would be nice, too!

Nah, you missed his point.

i think he didn't.
while he has a point with TDM maps. the duel mappool for cpm is just as boring, as vq3's.

You've all missed MY point. I wasn't starting a cpm vs vq3 map debate. CPM needs new maps too and I much prefer playing brand new maps over the cpm map pool.

My point does still stand though, new maps are needed to give a fresh feeling. If you get ztn and hub homesickness that bad just go play vq3. Otherwise at least try to have fun on the newer maps being used for duel, qzca2 and qztourney7.

I know, I was just trolling the CPM fanatics who scremed over played maps while nut hugging 3a and 1a (while they're on GTV wanking over the latest ztn and dm6 fest).

Of course they are, how else could you stand watching dm6 or ztn without some nice porn on the side

I agree! both maps are good but can be improved upon. I'd rather see new maps...

they could bring an old map like the edge, or some old one which could adapt pretty much well with some new items jumppads etc

Yeah, like ztn.

edge has been done many times and failed. Jesus christ people stop talking about these old maps that've been played a million times. Who gives a shit if ZTN isn't in QL.

maybe you should create a new map then, and send it to id software, by the way.. over the edge in q4 is a fair map :) it is my opinion :)

i'll wait for someone more talented to do it. meanwhile i'll play t6, dm13, t4.

t6 is edge rip-off isn't it?

No.

k

i dont know, but i feel t7 similar or something similar with ztn

similar gameplay, both players can get equally stacked in no time as in ztn but getting stacked doesnot ensure fragging, positioning matters more but the map is retarded when one guy has rail and other does not, which was not the case in ztn.

at least it is fixable :)

fuck off n00b! xD
qztourney4 ftw!

agreed, fuckers fail to realize with 15s rail respawn its the most balanced map evah!!, and you actually have to combat cant get away with gay stacking shit.

It has 15s rail again in the next update, btw.

15 sec should be duel standard ;/

I hope in dm6 too.

Who cares, it'd suck even with ZTN

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN

They play it because they know they will get destroyed on dm13 and no one is confident enough with furious heights yet.

T6 is abit shit for 1v1 imho, so much armour, vomit.

Or maybe because these maps are boring.

wait, you complain about dm6 sucking but when people mention other maps, they're boring?

Please, get over it and either play the game or shut the fuck up. The maps are there, deal with it. Hopefully upon release there will be better maps, if not, well we will have to deal with that when it arrives.

Anyway, fuck duel, tdm ctf 4lyf.

Well I don't know what you are talking about. Because a map is new it doesnt mean its good. ZTN is still better than any of the new maps combined. DM6 is still fun to me in duel, but I wouldn't mind it getting replaced by a map WORTH the replacement, unlike ztn, that I think its a must in the Quake mappool.

keep playing that violin man, we're all listening.

even farting would sound better than your talking.

subtle

Its funny, all the players that play old games are so afraid of changes that they piss themselves if they hear the word "change".

Look at CS, Dust2 is still by far the most played map, its been around for a decade. Same with nuke and inferno.

QW: still the same maps that are 10 years old are being played.

Q3: the semi-old maps arent included so lets start a flaming war.

Why so afraid of new maps? Why do you want to play the maps you have been playing for the latest 5 years?

I think a map should have a maximum length of a year maybee two.
Then it gets old, we know ztn inside and out, we know exactly how it plays. hub we know inside and out. DM6 we know inside and out.

Whats the point? After a while it just comes down to aim and luck.
We rarerly see anything new in the games we watch. We never get that "aha" feeling or "wow".

Al' rocket jumps, strafejumps or whatever jump is discovered. Damn im getting angry!

The whole point is that we know so much about the map. It's where the interesting action starts, where strategy, tactics, skill and mind games really begin to form and entertain.

You don't just chuck away things that are good because they are old when the new replacements aren't half as good yet.

New maps have been added to the mappool. We had the failed experiment of the pukka series. After all of that ztn always delivered the best matches.

Its not the players, is just that there aren't maps worth the replacement, and your idea of a different mappool every year is as stupid as the CGS ruleset.

"Whats the point? After a while it just comes down to aim and luck.
We rarerly see anything new in the games we watch. We never get that "aha" feeling or "wow".

I disagree with all of this.

I agree with this. Watch the ztn jibo vs av3k of latest GameGune. That was one of the most exciting matches i've seen IN A WHILE. What was map? Fucking ztn.

Let me guess.. the only map you're good at is ztn?

0/10

it's simple

change and addition only good if the replacing materials are better

if it's going to be sub par or only good for the very short term then it's wrong and a waste of time

hence everyone playing dm6

watch at dart
watch at handball
watch at volleyball
wathc at basketball
...
watch soccer they played the same map like for 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times
all shots everything is done and seen really ? but somehow every goal looks different
so is every dm6 game different and very very exciting
the skill should decide not the FUN factor of noobs seeing new airrocket positions

a lot of anger here :((((

i wish id would hurry up and open the doors to loads of noobs

?

It's open now mate.

Funny thing is some people like to believe that "up and coming" new players like for example these poles (foyjne or whatever is called) that plays 24h would have a chance vs the old dogs if all the maps were new.

Hehe not that I really care but Ive already seen him beat many of the old dogs on the new maps...

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1668722#pid1668722

Anyone is inactive compared to that guy anyway.

Ye active new players should clearly be excluded. You think the old players have never played like he does now?

Im talking about people with real talent that has been always in top 5's in all the mayor tournaments, not some punk playing all day.

The idea is that if these went active, with a couple of weeks these poles would get owned in the new, and obviously old maps.

Yes of course cause those guys never played 24/7, they just magically had this talent that made them best by default. Im not even saying fajny would beat any top player in a tournament, just that Ive seen him beat a few of the top players on dm13/t6/t7.

Maybe those old players will come back one day and prove you right but whatever prize money last years tournament distributed didnt seem to be enough to motivate them since most of the players doing well were totally unknown a couple of years ago.

They will if they care enough to play.

Gotta agree that the new 1on1 maps are bad though, t7 being even more unbalanced than t6. Its so lame that the guy dieing at mega on t7 so often spawn with 150 armor and RG/RL, liked t7 at the start but Im sick of it now, unbalanced spawns and made for sniping instead of fighting, theres not one open space to fight at thats of any significance.

T6 also feel pretty unbalanced, but Im far from good at it so maybe it would grow on me if I played it, still, it feels too easy to maintain control and the RG...

dm13 is great though, have really started to like the PG on it, only issue I have with dm13 is that LG room got LG/75 hp/50 armor, but thats not necessarily a bad thing, would like to remove at least 25 hp though. Really the best map for 1on1 right now imo.

T4 is probably the second best 1on1 map right now imo, the new weapon balance really worked out well for this map.

dm6 is dm6, wont shed a tear the day theres some proper maps to replace it.

Would be nice if one of these online tournaments added t2 to the map pool, preferably to replace t7, havent really played it much with the new layout but the few times I did play it I liked it - a bonus is that many of the people wanting a 8 dmg LG complains about CG being too strong ;) Still, I think this map plays pretty well and is pretty well balanced right now, some proper games on it to see if its any good would be nice.

That's because the people complaining about the LG not being 8 damage are sub-standard players and/or clueless about anything and everything to do with quake.

the whole vq3 concept is getting old and stale

I like it ;)

This is kind of true, only good duel maps in quakelive are qztourney4 and qzdm6.. others like t6, dm13 and t7 are pretty much search&hide + railwhoring and rocketspamming

i dont get it how dumb some pple are o.O

some guys want ztn regardless if its good choice for newbies or whoever (watch the dm6 whine in ql forums). Just me I want I want I want.

I want dust2 in ql!
get us DUST2 DUST2 DUST2
I dont care it doesnt fit quake.
I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT

and hey there are some trackmania tracks I WANT IN QUAKE LIVE!

THEY ARE PROOFED AS GOOD MAPS/TRACKS SO PUT THEM IN.
dont care about anybody (newbs) I WANT THEM.