VEHICLES PLZ ^_-

oh noes its UT2004 onslaught all over again ;D

good troll, B+

Halo seems to be a rip off of quake series, so why not quake take a thing or 2 from them?

fun fact: anyone with a clue in the halo community actually fucking hate vehicles, even a mediocre player can recognize how much they're all overpowered

I think he was more referring to the suggestions made in the linked column, than actually entertaining the idea of having vehicles in Quake.

i get pissed off when people rattle on a bunch of bullshit about halo 3 gameplay when the reality of the situation is there are more noobs playing q3 instagib ffa than serious duels, and you could dismiss q3 gameplay as a bunch of garbage newbie shit in the same fashion.

it just goes to show how closeminded ESR has gotten in regards to any other fps game. if you're going to compare halo to q3 you need to compare competitive halo to competitive q3, but people know fuck all about it around it so they base their opinions off one game of social with their drunk buddies. just my 2 cents. halo 3 plays like qw tdm in slow motion, which still makes it way better than q3 tdm ever was.

And Vehicles!

Shouting hell yeah from my vehicle, life is a miracle.

Last year I made a similar post and gathered flames from hell.

Good luck Jarod :)

Well, you can already teabag your victims, that's a huge plus.

Sure, training for a LAN tournament requires as low of ping as possible, but if you don't live in Sweden, the only place in the entire world that might suffice for LAN pings is actually setting up your own LAN in your house, etc.

That might be applicable when there are QL servers in sweden ;)

ranking - yes (if only because it rhymes with wanking)
matchmaking skill - ya
skill level per game mode - it's in qlive
ping and latency - swedish flag for sub 30ms would be awesome!

the rest not so much. maybe the demo thingy..

Totally agree with Streetrunner! Achievements and unlockables are really the only things that actually keep me playing a game for a long period of time. Halo type rankings can do that for QL.

Really? I think playing for acheivments is one of the lowest things.

They are totally worthless and empty things, pure marketing rubbish. Achievements undermine everything that a game is meant to be.

If the majority of acheivements we're simply a clap on the back for doing something you would have done anyway and not given a shit about then perhaps they wouldn't be such a bad thing. But glorifying people for obtaining 750 kills with a certain weapon (something I might add they may have done several times over before the implemnation of acheivments. Take for instrance DOD:Source). Is a shameless bullshit gesture.

Well usually I just play the game regularly first. And then after I finish it and am kinda bored I go for achievements. Partially because I want to fell like I got my monies worth and it also gives me something to do lol. I'm not the type of person that buys loads of games, I just have a few so I play them as much as I can.

I agree though that some achievements aren't "fun".

angry prepubescents with microphones?

... are you fucking serious?

Rankings

Starcraft/warcraft don't have rankings. Well, you could technically say battlenet, but nobody takes that seriously - people rely on third party sites like iccup. CS has no rankings, either. DOOM2/QW/Q2/Q3 didn't need them when they were popular.

Matchmaking Skill

Again, other largely popular games work just fine using third-party support. Why is this necessary?

Skill Level PER Game Mode

Falls under matchmaking, so this really didn't need it's own part.

Ping and Latency

...

While online tournament play the ping really matters in regards to fairness, there is little else knowing the ping can benefit

Holy crap - removing your ability to see your ping would somehow benefit the game? Let's not even get into the fact of how much CSP can be done on Halo with it's slow speed, but what that is saying is essentially that we should drive without a speedometer. To think that ping is unimportant online is one of the single most ignorant things I have ever heard.

Forced Game Modes

While trying to get more maps played is noble, forcing people to play any mode on any map that isn't already played is just stupid. There's are reasons that we only play 2 of the stock maps from Q3, and even more reasons why we shouldn't even be doing that. New maps are FAR more important than trying to get more participation through force.

Voice Talk in Game

After the years of working in LAN centers, I can honestly tell you that voice chat is probably one of the WORST things ever to happen to gaming. If you want to chat, get on IRC. You don't need more than team binds to play a team mode, and it serves no purpose in a duel other than to start fights.

In-Game Ettiquette and Player Reporting

Halo 2/3 reporting has never worked. It's simply too big of a task to try to moderate that many players.

Demos System

Play Quake 3.

Single Player Story

Play Quake 2.

More Game Modes

First we need to force the play of more modes, then we need to add more for people to disagree on?

This is an impressive collection of bad ideas, though.

are you really that angry about such trivial bullshit all the time? or is it just a nerd rage persona you like to portray?

iccup rankings: I think that was the type of thing Streetrunner was getting at anyway, whats the point of relying on 3rd parties to do the same thing, I never could be arsed to sign up to a site like that when I played starcraft.

iccup rankings: I think that was the type of thing Streetrunner was getting at anyway, whats the point of relying on 3rd parties to do the same thing, I never could be arsed to sign up to a site like that when I played starcraft.

If you're not interested enough to use iccup, you aren't the target audience to begin with. If you're not looking to compete, then battlenet is just fine for casual random games.

The issue here is that games like SC were popular LONG before iccup. While this kind of feature promotes an already popular game, it isn't what makes the game popular.

you are completely wrong.

As you can see in the very first sentence in the quote this is about the very new newbies who play their first game. So having a third party site is not an option.
Oh and for the complete newbies battlenet rankkings worked just fine...

What place to complete newbies have in a competition? Battlenet is hardly the kind of ranking system he's talking about, and it didn't ever work right.

its not about competition as in winning stuff, but in competition as in getting opponents with a similar skill.

So now you're trying to make a case for matchmaking instead of ranking. WC3/SC battlenet is horrible for trying to find people your skill level, with WC3 being slightly less horrible, and CS lacks matchmaking entirely.

This has not stopped the games from being extremely popular. If the game is good enough, the community provides. If you're lucky enough to get these things in ADDITION to a good game, it only saves time for the community.

yes I am, but a matchmaking based on rankings, so people notice that they move up (which you can't see in QL atm).
haven't tried battlenet for SC, but for wc3 I found it to be adequate not great.

CS is another matter because it is possible for noobs to score a frag once in a while and also pretty much understand what is going on. And they can also try all guns if they save long enough. On the other hand while even noobs playing against better player will score some frags in FFA and TDM but you don't get to use many weapons since they are all taken. In CA you get to use the guns but usually the bad players die before they can score a frag. Plus TDM and CA can be quite confusing at first.
And duel can even be frustrating when playing against someone who is about the same skill...

CS is another matter because it is possible for noobs to score a frag once in a while and also pretty much understand what is going on.

Right, and it's enjoyed great success because of it. It's an example of a point where the core of the game ended up doing well to form a community, and the community supplying what the game lacked in features.

On the other hand while even noobs playing against better player will score some frags in FFA and TDM but you don't get to use many weapons since they are all taken. In CA you get to use the guns but usually the bad players die before they can score a frag. Plus TDM and CA can be quite confusing at first.
And duel can even be frustrating when playing against someone who is about the same skill...

While I wouldn't ever support CA, I think that Quake would need to completely shift to TDM/CTF as the main mode instead of duel to be sustainable with the current model. Duel as a focus with the nuances of quake is intimidating for newbies, apparently too hard to balance and agree on for the community, and wastes potential server use.

Agreed about the team based attract new players and 1on1 scare off part. Playing with and cheering for a team > playing as or cheering for an individual.

hey, nerd: halo is a horrible game with prehistoric-age control devices. That didn't stop it from maintaining popularity with nifty online features and matchmaking setup/rankings, that helped total newcomers approach the game more easily and in a more "social" way or environment

Not hard to do with millions of marketing dollars.

hes a loser joke that works for the CIA

you know, anything perceived "deviant" needs control and usurping/suppression. Another bold cause, tax dollars to good use

"Agent Sands: El, you really must try this because it's puerco pibil. It's a slow-roasted pork, nothing fancy. It just happens to be my favorite, and I order it with a tequila and lime in every dive I go to in this country. And honestly, that is the best it's ever been anywhere. In fact, it's too good. It's so good that when I'm finished, I'll pay my check, walk straight into the kitchen and shoot the cook. Because that's what I do. I restore the balance to this country. And that is what I would like from you right now. Help keep the balance by pulling the trigger. "


Does not really apply here cause Depp is like the antithesis of Vedic, but I still love the quote in a cynic kind of way.

Agree with most of this

What do you disagree with?

I disagree with everything you say, Just because i dont like you.

I see how it is. It's over between us.

Playing for bnet levels is really addictive though, I would really like it for 1on1 in QL, right now you have to arrange a game with a friend to play on a decent level and even then you have to ask people to spec every ten min.

Have to agree with the rest of your post though.

I'm not saying that battlenet or ranking systems are bad, but that they're not what makes the game popular. You need a solid game underneath to make those features interesting.

that spec stuff will change for the future

trolled

Lemme summarize this long post for you:

"Lol hoo needz dis stuff"

Disagree on all points except single player, would minus you if I could.

You completely misunderstand, so it's no wonder you disagree.

I don't think that these features are an issue (save for the ping idea, that's just fucking retarded) - I merely think that there are more important parts of the game to fix before even CONSIDERING adding in features.

I understand everything you're enraged about as it was already pointed out by the first guy's reply. You are not just providing a critique to original article, you are suggesting taking a step back on almost every track that leads to improvement of QL/FPS experience integrated with immediate social features.

This article is also not about putting off priorities on current break/fixes, so I don't know why you would even mention that to me.

For one, your point about VoiceCom is outmost wrong one. Your experience of listening to kids yelling at one another at a LAN center does not prove/disprove a necessity of have VoiceCom available. It's a very useful feature for team games that enriches gaming experience with real time communications and makes it 100% more exciting(since damn Roger Wilco). Now whether or not you want to use and how much it is completely UP TO YOU, but it doesn't mean everyone has to be deprived of that possibility. And I'm sorry, the quote:

I can honestly tell you that voice chat is probably one of the WORST things ever to happen to gaming. If you want to chat, get on IRC. You don't need more than team binds to play a team mode

is simply the dumbest thing in entire thread.

I understand everything you're enraged about as it was already pointed out by the first guy's reply. You are not just providing a critique to original article, you are suggesting taking a step back on almost every track that leads to improvement of QL/FPS experience integrated with immediate social features.

You only continue to prove that you didn't understand what I have written. These features, while nice, have NEVER been a key to popularity, and other games that are even MORE popular than Halo 3 do not have them.

This article is also not about putting off priorities on current break/fixes, so I don't know why you would even mention that to me.

You didn't read the article, either. He's talking about things that would bring in more players and keep players. There are FAR worse things ruining the game than what he's calling for.

For one, your point about VoiceCom is outmost wrong one. Your experience of listening to kids yelling at one another at a LAN center does not prove/disprove a necessity of have VoiceCom available. It's a very useful feature for team games that enriches gaming experience with real time communications and makes it 100% more exciting(since damn Roger Wilco). Now whether or not you want to use and how much it is completely UP TO YOU, but it doesn't mean everyone has to be deprived of that possibility. And I'm sorry, the quote:

If you really think you need voice to play a team game, then you obviously don't play team games. Team binds have served us for a decade, and they work just fine. Voice chat is for trolling/yelling/FFA/girls. Again, voice chat doesn't make or break the game (and never has) and while I wouldn't care if it WAS put in, it's not important.

You read what you want to and ignore the core reasoning behind my post because you're a blind fanboy. The issue is the dish, not the toppings.

"If you really think you need voice to play a team game, then you obviously don't play team games. Team binds have served us for a decade, and they work just fine. Voice chat is for trolling/yelling/FFA/girls."

Regardless of the rest of your argument that IS one the dumbest statements in the entire thread. Just because there binds and they work doesn't mean they are enough. Has it occurred to you that binds are LIMITED, as in they're PERMANENTLY BINDED? They can't describe every strategic communique, in fact, that can't do more than 3 things, which have to be non-map specific. Have YOU ever played tdm competitively with a clan? Where you have to change strategies on the fly? Have you ever seen a TOURNAMENT AREA or at least a freaking EuroCup video, for crying out loud? People talk, people use binds, both have a purpose, but saying 'teamspeak' for trolling means you have no fucking clue.

Regardless of the rest of your argument that IS one the dumbest statements in the entire thread. Just because there binds and they work doesn't mean they are enough. Has it occurred to you that binds are LIMITED, as in they're PERMANENTLY BINDED? They can't describe every strategic communique, in fact, that can't do more than 3 things, which have to be non-map specific.

3 things? I had around 8 or 9 team binds on my setup. Unless you're playing in a pug, you REALLY shouldn't need more than that, but you could easily get even more binds if you tried.

Have YOU ever played tdm competitively with a clan? Where you have to change strategies on the fly? Have you ever seen a TOURNAMENT AREA or at least a freaking EuroCup video, for crying out loud? People talk, people use binds, both have a purpose, but saying 'teamspeak' for trolling means you have no fucking clue.

CTF, mostly, with the bulk of my TDM in 2v2. No issues so far. QW TDM has been going on with binds for 10 years, so why do you think a slower game like Q3 needs voice chat? QW arguably has far more depth in TDM, too. Voice chat can be useful to a degree, but I don't agree that it has any specific advantages over binds. Arguments about it's usefulness or being required aside, the original point was about getting/keeping newbies, to which voice chat has proven to be a HORRIBLE thing for mainstream gaming.

3 things? I had around 8 or 9 team binds on my setup. Unless you're playing in a pug, you REALLY shouldn't need more than that, but you could easily get even more binds if you tried.

I could do a lot of things, including learning 20 binds, one for each words and than put those together to form legible statements. Or I could just yell it in my headset without even involving my fingers. What I can do has nothing to do with what I am better off doing.

CTF, mostly, with the bulk of my TDM in 2v2. No issues so far. QW TDM has been going on with binds for 10 years, so why do you think a slower game like Q3 needs voice chat?

Have you read my posts? No game NEEDS voice chat. Binds work and do what they're supposed to do. Totally and absolutely regardless of that, voicechat is a useful and COMPLIMENTARY feature.

Voice chat can be useful to a degree, but I don't agree that it has any specific advantages over binds.

Than you simply can't comprehend simple logic. Let's try this very slow. Binds are statements binded to keys. They are preset and are therefore limited. They simply can not describe a sudden change in strategy, communicate tactical positions, coordinated actions. Binds CAN'T be enough because they can't do certain things PHYSICALLY.

Arguments about it's usefulness or being required aside, the original point was about getting/keeping newbies, to which voice chat has proven to be a HORRIBLE thing for mainstream gaming.

No. THIS argument, as I have specifically pointed out by saying "regardless of your argument" is about "Voice chat is for trolling/yelling/FFA/girls." which is a totally fucking clueless statement. Do you have comprehension problems?

I could do a lot of things, including learning 20 binds, one for each words and than put those together to form legible statements. Or I could just yell it in my headset without even involving my fingers. What I can do has nothing to do with what I am better off doing.

You don't need advanced binds to communicate properly.

Have you read my posts? No game NEEDS voice chat. Binds work and do what they're supposed to do. Totally and absolutely regardless of that, voicechat is a useful and COMPLIMENTARY feature.

You were just going on about how much it's needed at a higher level of play...

Than you simply can't comprehend simple logic. Let's try this very slow. Binds are statements binded to keys. They are preset and are therefore limited. They simply can not describe a sudden change in strategy, communicate tactical positions, coordinated actions. Binds CAN'T be enough because they can't do certain things PHYSICALLY.

The game isn't rocket science. If you can't manage to cover every situation in the keys you have available to you, the problem is you.

No. THIS argument, as I have specifically pointed out by saying "regardless of your argument" is about "Voice chat is for trolling/yelling/FFA/girls." which is a totally fucking clueless statement. Do you have comprehension problems?

For the most part, that's all that voice chat is used for and is useful for. You sure are getting raged without even reading enough to understand what you're so mad about.

haha, like bouncy balls against a wall

Referring to the whole thing - Verdic, are you fu*king stupid?

Also, you say you play TDM 2v2. That's where voicecom would find the MOST use. Clear cut one-on-one communications with your teammate would benefit that gametype more than any others.

Are your parents fucking watching you type or are you just too big of a pussy to write a naughty word online?

Again, if you think you need voice chat in any team mode, you are just another novice pickup whore.

Though I agreed with all your other points, I gotta go with demiurge on this one. Voice chat IS necessary at a high level of play for team modes.
edit: maybe you weren't referring to the competitive level of play, which I would tend to agree with you. voice chat on random pub servers with newbs would probably hurt the game more so than help it.

Actually, it's not necessary. Altough I think the option should be in there it's certanly not necessary. If I remember correct it was the Swedish nc-team in promode (correct me on this if it's wrong someone, because it was some top team atleast) that drew the conclusion that voice chat just made them all play worse and make their teamplay go wrong. It just spawns much more randomness in the game which make people disregard their usual play.

I think most teams would disagree with that...Binds simply cannot explain every situation that you're in :o
edit: but yea you're right, I was a little extreme with 'necessary.' I think most competitive teams prefer it to binds though

Yes. I said nothing else.

lies, you called me fat!

afaik most qw tdm teams prefer(ed) binds over voicechat. unless you're very disciplined it kinda of makes sense...

Yes, I agree completely. People have a tendency to stop thinking and using their ears and instead just shout "WHERE ARE THE ENEMY NOW?!" in the mic.

fanboy of what?

If you've ever tried playing CTF then you would most certainly know that teambinds are not enough.

You cannot be ignorant of the fact that voice comms are far superior to teambinds. Binds allow for the most general of directions to other players. On certain maps 'low' may mean one of several different possibilities.

ENEMY FC ALT LOW

No matter the level of detail packed into a bunch of letters with spaces between them, the information you are providing pales in comparision to what a short exchange in words can offer.

Using an example of ctf, were you to attack the enemy flag carrier but you die, you can quickly tell your team mates of an approximate level of health, whether the fc has additional escorts and finally, where he was last heading.

You would not only need to bind at least 3 keys to desribe that event in its totality without leaving much to chance. You would also have to take the moment it would take to key them all in, in order. Time you could be spending focusing on getting to the enemy flag carrier quicker.

It might seem abit harpish but seconds like that do count in certain situations and in light of this I cannot possibly attend to your position that voice comms do not add a considerable ammount to not only the gaming experience, but also it's competeitive element.

No.

OK tiger.

voice communication has too much redundancy compared to binds, in a fast paced game like quake.

in halo or counterstrike it works, because the flow of the game is rather slow, so speaking in long words/sentences won't affect the game much.

but in quake3 listening to your teammates finish their sentences can really be annoying, when you could easily understand what the'yre trying to say by the color of their bind (thats an exageration, but i guess you get the point).

saying the words 'EFC low left' will take far longer than just using a red bind and your teammates knowing, that when i def player uses a red teambind, it means that efc is low left, or something like that.

Well, my team and I, and other teams I have played in have always used voice and we have never had a problem with it.

So long as you are disciplined and don't rabble then voice will be far superior to binds.

no it won't, as i said above, voice is way to redundant.
unless you use some sort voice-code, it will always be inferiour to binds.

of course tho, for people used to voice, binds will be too complicated, so you and your team would have problems. and i would to, but the fact still stands that binds are more efficient, when enough effort is put into it.

I won't agree with you, but I can understand your point :p

HE WORKS FOR THE CIA.

couldnt agree more with most of your parts.
Jarod should better focus on the AGP-tournaments instead of writing such stuff

I agree with some of your points sure.

But ur a wankarrrrrr

Vedic is one of the most negative internet trolls' I've seen. Always contradicting someone and trying to make clever, witty remarks when he just comes off as some snarky kid with a grudge on his shoulder.

Voice Talk in Game
After the years of working in LAN centers, I can honestly tell you that voice chat is probably one of the WORST things ever to happen to gaming. If you want to chat, get on IRC. You don't need more than team binds to play a team mode, and it serves no purpose in a duel other than to start fights.

Really, so team modes dont count? I'd love to see you get destroyed in CTF on a team without voice to communicate versus one with. Coming from a background in UT2K4 CTF, a truly TEAM gametype, I can tell you it makes all the difference, especially if skill is level between the two teams. It is impossible to provide proper cover if you cannot call your position and you cannot even expect the teams that gel the best to overcome not being near each other and only operate through some practiced formula.

Anyone claiming how much they need voice chat in team modes instantly loses any credibility. Learn to move to ESDF to have more binds than you can even know what to do with.

Come back when you're not a total novice.

if binds are enough then the team games you're playing isn't really team games. Take q3 tdm for example which is basically the same as FFA, time items, kill people, repeat.

hopefully T-Cubed emerges in QL...

Its not appropriate to compare halo 3 with its multi-multi-million marketing & pr budget (established IP with $X0,000,000 invenstments working for marketing only) selling experience of being mighty hero for a hour or two to nearly every male teen available in NA, and niche low-budget quake series with no mainstream success.

i think you've forgotten what the quake community was like 10 years ago

Quake scene wasn't very big 10 years ago.

wrong.

Well it was bigger than today but we're comparing it to Halo 3. Quake is just too hard for new players and it'll never ever be as big as Halo.

Quake 2 at its peak had like 100,000+ players on a day and Quake 1 was still going strong at the time as well. If you didn't get into the game until Quake 3 dropped you wouldn't know how big it used to be because CS, UT, and the 3 quakes themselves split the community which was lumped all in one massive player base in multiple directions. The FPS community as a whole was much smaller but there were less games so the number of people playing them was comparable.

compared to mediocre wee-pee shooter with coca-cola's marketing approach it was (and currently is) nothing, even at its peak.

it's a perfecty honest comparison. We can take what halo has suceeded with and apply that to Quake while still being a much different game. These are just things that make the user experience better, not mimicking gameplay. Get a clue.

halo's success is marketing approach.
the same approach that makes you pay a few bucks for a bottle of colored soda water with red&white logo attached to it.

"I personally want Quake Live to appeal to people long enough for them to not quit after they get destroyed in their first game."

No, Halo 3 is a terrible game, and we don't want the people that enjoy it to stick to Quake. The quicker they leave, the better.

Who majored this crap?

You DONT want people to play Quake? This guys a thinker, get him a Nobel prize!

Yeah, Halo 3 players equals everyone.

It equals infinite players in relation to the Quake scene.

And infinitely less dumbassery. A trade off I am willing to deal with.

Quality over quantity I suppose would be appropriate.

You're so smart, dumbass.

Because we don't have much dumbassery here at ESReality at the moment.

rofl he wants to include single player in QL, im sorry to say that: what a fucking moron! Seriously what the fuck? His ideas fucking sux, the only good idea is to include microphone in team games, would be awesome to have microphone in CA or CTF...

CA, really?

dead people instantly being muted obviously, too much rage otherwise

Some of the ideas are good. A great ranking system, matchmaking system and achievements is always a good way to keep the newbies playing.

I'm not so sure it would be a good idea to mask the ping though. In my opinion, more information is always a good thing.

These are good ideas... people think rankings will be bad but theres no way in hell it'll have any negatives. We're trying to get more players to this game and having a ranking system will give the bad players more to strive for when playing. The best players won't be affected by rankings because they'll still be competing in tournaments but the bad players will have their little number to compete against other bad players with.

Its a way to increase the number of players that the game has so theres no way that could be considered a bad thing.

Halo 3 has rankings but I still don't want to play it.

Let's fix the game before we add features, hmm?

doing one doesn't exclude the other.

but of course priority one should be making the game as good as it can ever be.

Would you buy a car that gets 2 miles per gallon if it came with air conditioning, GPS, and flame decals?

no, but I'd be very happy if the car did 50mpg and came with all that stuff. why not aim for that?

You can have a good game without those features, but you can't have a bad game with features holding it up. I agree that both should be the goal, but I only see talk here about adding features as if the game itself was ready for them.

I agree.
but saying the features themselves are bad isn't really true. the bad idea is implementing them without fixing the real problems.

Aye, and I've done nothing but agree with that point thus far. =P

not even in comment #8? :P

sure sounded like it..

The article being centered around the currently failing QL playerbase and how to keep/attract players, I offer the reasons why these features are either directly bad or simply aren't remotely a priority.

The ping feature he recommended was completely retarded, though

well if they want more newbies then these things aren't a bad idea, since they surely would be more appreciated than making qlive a better competetive platform. we all know most gamers see shiny new graphics and fancy features and base their experience on that.

things like these are just as needed as the stuff that's important for the people who know the game. both has to be done to make this weird experiment really successful, it has to be both a newbie magnet and at the same time a setting for competetive play.

well if they want more newbies then these things aren't a bad idea, since they surely would be more appreciated than making qlive a better competetive platform. we all know most gamers see shiny new graphics and fancy features and base their experience on that.

That's the issue I have taken with QL since before it was even released. Quake 3 is just a horrible base for a casual game, and needs work to be up to par for professional play. I'm saying that the game needs a radical redesign to be popular, as the core game has already not stood the test of time.

what would you change ?

For casual play or professional play?

what would you change in QL as it is now?

Remove duel, remove CA, remove instagib

Add CPM

Stir

didn't know you played cpma, thought you only played wow when it comes to other esports.

I dropped VQ3 around 2003-2004 (when games were harder and harder to find) and moved to CPM exclusively. Games were easier to find for a year or two, but mostly I was enjoying the game much more.

How about GEE TEE VEE and a fucking demo menu or even demo streaming (not video, ingame) on the QL homepage?

some really good ideas here, dunno wtf is everybody so angry with. most of the ideas here would be appealing to new players, but at the same time don’t effect u. And the more players the better, that’s the goal.

Welcome to ESR. Can I take your coat?

Should've changed that to Welcome Back, perhaps, as you seem to have been away for a long period of time.

this stuff is thirteen days too late

Only thing I would want, what was mentioned is the demo system:

If I was able to open some demo through the webpage, and cut some little clip from my demo and store it in my 5mb large space @ quake webpage, then link it to someone and webpage would ask him/her something like: Do you want to view this demo %demoname%? "Yes" "No"

-I would be pretty fucking happy :D.

Maybe the premium customers could then even have larger webspace to save their demos and something extra :D.

I definitely think a ladder system based on automated match making, based on a ladder rating or perhaps a calculated skill level, would be terrific for the game. It would work for duels, al least.

Skill ranking sux. Imagine that you have a tournament and in tournament many newbies signed, but you are not able to play with them since ranking system doesnt allow you.

We have an example in Slovenia now. We are about to start a tournament and there are many newbies signed. However, I'm able to play with them now, but if the system was like he said then I wouldnt be able to play with some participants in this tournament.

First of all, what about MOAR SERVERS? You know, not even Sweden has its own servers, oh but you want to put their flag in the game for lower pings? Oh the irony.

Rankings - hmmm
Matchmaking Skill - Captain Obvious to the rescue!
Ping and Latency - lol
Forced Game Modes - rofl
Voice Talk in Game - i like it, with some big mute buttons
In-Game Ettiquette and Player Reporting - Good idea in theory, wont happen in reality
Demos System - nice
Single Player Story - change your dealer ASAP
More Game Modes - Lowest priority maybe

The ping idea is blasphemous, but the other stuff seems good.

he does have a point with it though. but obviously they can't remove the ping value for the player. I'd say a cmd like cg_drawping (with true ping displayed) coupled with something like what streetrunner proposed isn't a bad idea.

I don't mind having the default (and modifiable via config) setting to not show ping and have the bar system. However, I hate restrictions in client-side options.

I was thinking that as I read through the comments.

Scoreboard with his proposed system and then a cg_drawping "2" with the real XXXms displayed would be fine.

Don't agree with most points, some them were pretty stupid.

20:12.45 ( stripy` ) such rofl comments on esr
20:13.24 ( stripy` ) why cant ppl realize that quake live can be newbie friendly and competition ready at the same time
20:13.34 ( stripy` ) it’s not mutually exclusive
20:14.43 ( stripy` ) i mean the old quake community should need to understand that adding most of those features will not affect their playing habits, but will help out new players a lot…and also motivate new players to continue to play
20:15.09 ( stripy` ) more players, more money, more id support
20:15.44 ( stripy` ) on the flip side id needs to understand that adding competitive features will not make the game less noob friendly
20:15.58 ( stripy` ) the goal is to do both, with good prioritizing
20:16.04 ( stripy` ) just my 2milion cents

Have anyone said otherwise?

yes. guess the word "halo" just made ppl crazy, and not think it thru:)

I think you're wrong. What people had said was: "There are other issues and things that should be fixed before even considering any of these changes."

sherlock: no fuckin shit

THAT WASNT THE POINT.

What are you on about?

missed the point

No, I don't think I did. Care to explain?

They do make the game less newbie friendly, what's important is that those features enable anyone who isn't a newbie to the game to have extraordinary amounts of fun.

The difficulty comes in turning newbies into players before they quit while not ruining the game for all the non-newbies.

a game should be non-newbie friendly because you get your ass handed to you for your first 100+ games, not because there are 7000 config options you need to know to get on an even footing with everyone else.

having a good mm system that separates scrubs from competent players helps too, halo's learning curve actually gets quite steep once you get past average level play (which probably like 2 other people outside of myself on ESR are aware of) and the ranking system keeps the absolute scrubs separate from the medicore players and keeps the medicore players separate from the top tier players.

i thought this was the point of QL in the first place, if it's just matching you up with whoever that's fucking stupid and solves nothing

Of course, but in Q3/QL the main problem is the game itself.

what would you change?

Lots of things.

Cool.

If he'd just gone over the points he mentioned without referring to halo 3 every other sentence I might've not spilled my soda.

The right angle is "What Halo hasn't but QL has"; which is punkbuster, one of the worst pieces of software ever created. There's a 54-page thread in the forums about the kicking problem and it's been there for six months.

Why can't ID just admit their loss and get over with it, they got fooled in to investing to some 2 college students' imaginitive software, but jeesus h why do they have to let it slow down and pollute every game with the heartbeat/update/random kicking problems without any expentacy of actual results.

So true, punkbuster is like de DRM of latency, it doesnt stop determined cheaters but pisses legit players like nothing else, excepting maybe that, erm, you know, theres no sub 50ms QL servers in most parts of the globe.

I like how even though I've not logged onto the QL site in months and it's not supposed to be turned on according to msconfig (Or auto-run) PunkbusterA is currently active on my laptop.

All it is doing is wasting processor/memory of my laptop.

:/

Pretty sure it even remains after uninstall, too.

skimmed over it and all of those suggestions are either dumb or unrealistic

I definitely agree with the ranking system and achievements. I'm not sure, since I don't play Halo, but I believe they take your overall ranking and don't allow you to play players that are better than you. I think that is what Quake Live desperately needs. The achievement system is just there to keep newbies playing for a reason besides killing the other person. It gives them goals to work for, and a sense of accomplishment. Maybe Quake Live can give them a lil award next to their name like on Mplayer. The more achievements, the cooler looking icon next to their name. Just like in WoW when you have that 80 next to your name, or that cool set of armor you got from that one dood from that dungeon. Same idea, diff. game.

The ping one sounded crazy to me, but it's sufficient to let the player chose to see it.

The single player story is really unrealistic, and I think that the comparison with halo franchise makes little sense, especially given the development environment of QL.

The rest is pretty good and would help new players keeping playing.

the major Things Quake Live Needs doesn't have that Halo 3 Had : billions $ marketing from "we got some much money we don't even know what to do with it's microsoft

exactly my thought

Bright skins ON by default!! Talk about experienced players having an unfair advantage from the word "go" (or "fight" in quakes case)

iD SORT IT OUT YOU FUCKIN PRICKS!!

But it needs more to become more than a game. It needs what Halo 3 has

FAIL !!!!
QL needs what Q3 has !! (GTV, private servers...)

GTV and such are just tools to attract and hold the player base. Without player base game turns into a slow ball of nothing rolled by a few has-beens, wannabees, and cannot-quits. More social interaction, goal-based features, the better.

IMHO GTV, or any other tools like GTV is, contribute to the advertising of the game and contribute to attract people. (like making video, as kilaton did, also contribute to attract people)

They should add a GTV, and allow a GTV access directly from the QL Frontpage.

I'm sure that if a noob watch a "pro-gamer" match, it will motivate him to continue.

So it should be great to show GTV announcing some match like :
QL LIVE NOW !!!! "FRANCE - SWEEDEN" NC TDM FINAL

And that you can show easily the match just by clicking on the link.

Me likes.

he took that from GGC

who he ? Me ?

I you think about me, I took that idea from nowhere.

I had the idea long time before the beta-release of QL went out 1 year ago o_O

I posted a message about that on an ESR thread which asked us what features we wanna see in the next release of Quake.

But If someone else has the same idea, it confirms that should be a nice thing to add in QL.

ok, i thought you saw it on GGC, there are constantly messages like "DOTA FINALS NOW, XXY vs QQW, TUNE IN CLICK HERE" etc...

In fact I don't know what GGC is o_O (I nerver played Dota... :x)

Yes, because it was so hard to figure out THAT would be a good idea..

Thats a great idea! :D
I think everyone would like that feature, good and bad players.

GTV(s) are great tools for the more experienced parts of a game comunity, and help keeping that part of the comunity interested in the game, but they don't attract any new player. Never did and never will.

You know, QL needs Q3 players first.

If all the Q3 community switch to QL, we are all going to promote the game, with our own capabilities.

From my pov, it is the best chance that QL will have.
(see the "success" of Q4... it has never happened because Q3 players weren't enough anthusiastic for this game).

=> From who, the QL keys were firstly provided ? Q3 players...
=> Who makes movie about QL to promote the game ? Q3 players (ie. Kilaton)
=> Who is currently discuss on this ESR thread about the best way to promote the game ? Mostly Q3 players

Q3 players are the key of the success of QL.

But Q3 players are going to play QL only if some features are also implemented in QL. (just a shame that in 2009, there is no features like that implemented by default into the game...).

Care to explain how a bunch of haters with biased vision will be of any help ?

I don't think q3 players are the saviors.

The simple answer is, Qlive needs to be appealing enough to entice people to play it.

Q3 players are not exactly gonna make any difference. The idiots who have them for idols are already playing qlive anyways.

it might not necessarily attract new players but it might get new players to stick with the game if they saw something like come watch superstar vs young gun play in the eswc 2009 finals with casting by djwheat, on their ql main page. spectator experience is one of the main factors that keep people watching/playing a game.

That's what I said ;)

Looked like an excellent compilation of things that will improve any game. QuakeLive, of course, included.

I have a better idea : remove QL and put Halo in your webbrowser. Win.

My opinion Follows;

The real solution here is that we all need to be promoters of the game. People that play competitively, or even people that finish first in a couple of FFAs impress new players regularly.

If someone asks you a question- take the time to answer it. If someone comes in to a server and asks where everybody is from- give them your city. You need to get on a common ground with this new crowd for them to feel like a community.

I usually join the Seattle servers late at night and play with people WELL below my skill level (really there is no other option at that hour), but I do so without turning people off from the game. It typically turns into a Q&A session where people ask me about timing and movement and I try my best to answer them legitimately. I'm by no means a "great" player, but I understand enough to help people who know less than I do and we should all try to strive for the same.

whole heartedly agree with this one.
its not loosing that puts the noobs off. its loosing to some silent tosser.

silence is better than the douchebagetry that comes out of a lot of these cs/cod pubstars who think they are hot shit, i wish they would just be silent

I do a similar thing, I've trunched some CA servers when it's been 5am in Australia, playing on such a high ping people notice you and do ask questions. But I do agree on being courteous with people, it is lost in so many games and it does help attract people towards a game. Especially if they can appreciate a friendly environment.

the best thing halo3 has going for it : it's not quakelive

I really liked the idea of kill cam replays from CoD4 although that might be a bit silly in 1v1/ctf/tdm/etc. It might be fun for Clan Arena or Duel Arena type modes.

the guys a douche.
the little children and wankers that need a little rank icon next to their name to play a game are not the sort of people i want playing quakelive anyway.

please dont lissten to people like this and fuk up quake ID! :(

well i pretty much like the ideas you came up with, new players will have something that keeps em motivated
while for older players nothing will change at all.
ok, a single player might be over the top and i rather see my real ping than these bars, aswell as not being
forced to play a mode, but the rest could make the game better after all;-) (that's mainly the ranking system)

ye

The problem are not quake veterans ...
The problem is that nowadays newbies cry and whine like childrens, dont have the humility to accept that to learn play this game you have to spend some time on it ...
They want to win immediately without putting any effort !! They go around and crying for hacks, cheats and insult you if you frag them 2 time in a row ...
I think that new people must grow up or leave immediately. I dont want them in quakelive!

Fucking retarded article.

Any idiot who thinks Quake needs to be like Halo in any aspect should be.... hm.... forced to play Halo until he dies. Yes, I cannot imagine anything worse.

You should try reading the article before stating stupid arguments. Nothing of the Halo game itself is said to be worth for QL, but all of the comunity support things around it are.

I have read it. Forced game modes? Removing detailed ping info? Bloody stupid.

And even suggesting all these "community & newbie friendly features" is silly when core game is so fucked up with 10 year old bugs and lack of competitive features we have in OSP, CPMA and every other competitive mod for any Quake in last decade.

So what is priority?
1. Making a good competitive game for the top1% of players.
2. Keeping the other 99% playing?

To be honest I do not see what is "retarded" about the article at all. That's exactly what complete newbies need to enjoy the game and stick to it long enough to get better and see the light.

Those complete newbies are what we need in order for id to put more money and time into perfecting QuakeLive and for new top gamers to come and take the place of the retired ones.

It's obvious no one with an ESR account needs that shit, but everyone else does.

It's not all for newbies even. Who would benefit more of web-based demo sharing tool than the veterans? Or of a more refined skill system? Or of a per gametype skill level? People is complaining just because they've seen the word Halo and nothing else. Of course not every idea is worth it (singleplayer for what?), but there are many great ideas in that article.

I think single player would actually be a big attraction to QuakeLive. It would certainly be easy to make and its existence would not ruin the experience for anyone who's interested in multiplayer.

The Q3 story concept is fine for what would be needed too, just needs a bit more work on a plot, cutscenes, characters and a way to link it all to bot matches (Or maybe not bot matches).

I generally think that single player content released periodically would keep reminding people that there's something like QL ou there and make them come back.

I personally see two types of sp scenarios you would have:

1) Q2-style kill 'em all walk through levels. Let's say there are 2-3 large levels added to the game every month. Regular "office gamers" would certainly come back for it.

2) A karate movie style plot when you have an old and retired champion who teaches you the tricks of the trade. You beat opponent after opponent while learning new stuff. This could be very educational as the mentor would teach the player certain strategies or skills.

There could be obstacle courses or shooting galleries where there are dummies falling down and you need to score as many airrockets as you can, etc. And certain bot opponents along your career progression could only be beaten by keeping an armour advantage (teaches timing / map control) or by keeping the railgun away from the bot, or by keeping higher ground all the time.

Most of the skills that you acquire as you play a multiplayer game can be easily singled out, taught and explained in this manner.

I think that one major reason why newbies don't get better is that they are not aware of certain skills or aspects of the game. No game so far has taught the player how to play properly. I am hoping this will change some day.

I couldn't agree more.

totally agree, as a fan of sci-fi, I have always thought that the doom/quake universe is one full of fantastic potential.

You have memorable characters (who the fuck didn't think the opening of Q3 with Sarge charging all those cunts wasn't the most epic thing ever) and great environments.

I have enjoyed every quake SP i've played, probably q4 the most because of some of the sick set peices.

Agree

[nerd]

btw here is simple estimation:
Publisher gets about $20 from game unit sold out.
For hypothetic q3a-alike game for pc only with ue3 licensed, a dozen of polished and properly playtested mulplayer levels, q3a-style singleplayer campaign and basic competitive features the budget is expected to be $10 mln at least (marketing included). To break even publisher should sell out 500k copies, 700k - 1mln to make profit.
For pc-only q3a-alike title such numbers would be tenfold as optimistic.

[/nerd]

i can has translashun?

i agree whit it all except forced game modes and that ping thing (or it would be ok if u still can get the real ping displayed through the console )
i don't understand how many retards we have at this site... how can features that would improve the experience for the newbies be something to rage about?

The thing quake live needs is this... Red vs Blue

A few good suggestions - I think a halo3-like experience system would really encourage more players, but forced game modes... really? I don't think forcing people to not enjoy themselves 50% of the time is a good idea.

The ping bar thing could work, but only if you can see your actual ping number as well, this is important information, though obviosuly the author of this article isn't experienced enough to make use of it..

Single player story really isn't needed - multiplayer is what keeps people playing games, single player people would play for maybe 10 hours, then move on - it would just be a massive watse of time for id and distract them from improving the multiplayer.

Finaly, more games modes just arn't needed, add too much choice and you'll just end up with the same number of games modes being played and the rest being neglected, and ql doesn't have the player base for that many new game modes if they did all become popular anyway. I could see something radicly different such as maybe a race mode working, but that would have to be implemented after custom map support and if new modes were to be added I don't think it would be advisable adding any more than 1 or 2 at most for reasons just stated.

don't see how any of these gimmicks would attract someone who's not into deathmatch anyway. you can apply current standards of other games to quake, but do you really care that much as a new player? the core game is dm. as a new player i would stick to it, if the game is fun, i like dm, it's ALIVE, means community, tournaments, coverage, money, cooller etc..

what worries me is:
the more players the more money and the more money the more players. no one is gonna throw money in right? if you consider this, cosmetic changes make sense, although some of the suggested seem too odd and if they succeed is speculative, but what do you have to lose right. somewhere you have to get started.

i would prefer money over makeup anyday though, no one likes changes in their favourite game

I would prefer putting a cap on the number of timeouts Polish players can have.

things halo needs quake has:

cooller.

yeeeeeee

achievements + rankings like COD4 or TF2 = massive community > more potential for good gamers.

fucking noobs imo.

fucking noobs imo.

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