Linux is fine.

Solaris > Linux

A few years ago, after many years of using windows, I downloaded and installed Ubuntu. Installation was extremely easy and pretty much all the drivers were installed automatically. From there on, I could browse the web, listen to music, burn DVDs and do other stuff that I needed with ease, via software that was either at least as good as their windows counterparts, or software that was not as good but easily replaceable via Synaptic, and that was without any Linux experience.

Now, please, tell me, how does this suck?

long story

you failing to notice the weak points is one aspect of Linux sucking

It's annoying isn't it.

Ubuntu is far from plug and play. I'll make it simple.

The majority of people who use computers want to turn it on and use their software and turn it off again. Some are losers and need the leet appeal of an OS but those people have always been outcasts and I don't think them using Linux is going to change that, other than their codependent groups.

A computer is made up of Hardware and it runs software. Got it?
Ok so, if the majority of software and hardware produced is designed to work on windows (first and formost) then YOU WILL get compatability issues with Linux and that's before the myriad of Distro's. Something which average computer users have no idea how to fix.

Linux is free?

No, some versions of Linux are free and the only reason its free is because they're developing a product to get it to a point where they can charge you money.

People don't care about Xp or Vista, it comes with most new computers and even if you have to pay for it, look how long it has lasted?

I'm still using XP, it never crashes, I run about 25 different programs on it and they all work. THis would never be the case on linux.

I would have to use second rate versions of some of these programs and convince myself that I'm keeping it real because its free and Microsoft are evil.

Like I keep saying , Linux is great for testing things like security and its fair to say it does beat windows in that respect, but again, its only a small % of people who care about this stuff.

It'll never be mainstream, Linux should just stay true to who it was originally intended for and be happy with that.

If and when linux becomes a threat to windows Microsoft will just it away for free so there will be even less point in using it.

Ubuntu is far from plug and play. I'll make it simple.


Please, explain how that is in my case. I don't care about stupid trends ; These compatibility issues that you speak of - maybe they happen to some people, but I DON'T GIVE A SHIT, it worked for me. So why these compatibility issues should be more of a problem than those security things that windows lack? I don't care about either one of them.

it's not only about your user experience, dude.. the world doesn't begin and end with you. if it works for you, it's awesome! gg

but if it isn't working for a lot of people, it kind of defeats the purpose of an open source OS that everybody could/should use in order to escape from the tight grip of commercial OS'es/DRM and whatnot.

(i'm not saying commercial OS'es are bad, but for something as basic as an operating system, everybody should have access to a decent standard one and has to be as transparent as possible.)

having this in mind, it's pretty awful to watch the Linux platform being so unfocused and hellbent on reinventing the wheel in a zillion projects each failing in its own way.

there's a lot of misinterpreted freedom out there in the Linux community. they should standardize things (sound system, packaging etc.) across all major distros and call it a day. this way you'll have commercial developers and hardware vendors able to port their software / drivers easily without wasting a lot of money on a really small market share (<1%). only then with decent support from those Linux can succeed.

i hope Google does a decent job with their rumoured linux-based OS. they have the manpower and resources to pull through.

Just saying that the people with similar needs would probably find linux good for home use, too. There's only a few apps (like MS Office) that are popular and don't have equal linux counterparts (I mean from the ones that pretty much all windows users are using, not including games ect.), and if someone doesn't need them (there's still quite a lot of people like that), then he could find linux great.

well... linux sucks, windows sucks, mac sucks
just use whatever sucks a little less for you

the video you linked isnt bad though

linux rox only for amp.

I agree that linux does have its flaws, and its behind windows and mac OS in terms of Desktop useage. Thanks for posting this as he's asking the right questions and its nice to see linux lovers
asking , what sucks!

it's alan shore from boston legal and the practice

the thing that puts me as a standard computer user off from using linux is the fact that if I were to use linux I would be missing out on so much stuff. it's not the fault of linux, it's the fact that applications have been and still are beeing developed for windows.

one market where linux could really do good is in workstations which are only used for one thing, ie audio/video editing. like how linux is used in routers. avid (the software/hardware company behind the leading audio/video editing suites) could wery well develope and sell a workstation which has an all in one solution which has all the hardware and software needed in an linux enviroment. in my mind there would be alot of benefits for the developer working in such a way, seeing how they could control _everything_ that way.

linux is useful for server etc.

without a doubt Linux is great on dedicated hardware for specific tasks

however on general purpose desktop machines, things change.. you can't control the hardware specifications, nor the desired tasks a user wants to perform :)

Having watched the video, I don't understand how the lack of applications is Linux's fault. Yes they have problems with packaging and sounds but the actual development of more complete applications such as Photoshop is not their responsibility.

commercial software developers won't ever support such a volatile platform. it costs them time & money to port something while jumping through hoops (that will break on the next distro update anyway).

the market share of linux is also minuscule, but this would change if real standards would be introduced.

do you think this guy is trolling?
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/2007/05/we...ungle.html
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png

anyway, i hope Google mops the floor with all the Linux distros. they have the resources and the business ethics to do a quality OS.

I understand, but once those issues are solved then it's the commercial software developers job to write those applications. If they have a bigger market share obviously.

they will.. they want to sell and make profit :)

who cares

Obviously you care enough to post that (:

Elaborate on windows error handling plz and more info about windows administrators/gurus.

What are the differences between administrating windows server between sun server?

I find the only people that brag about Linux and make it an e-peen thing are people that want to do ridiculous shit for no reason at all, only for bragging rights.

Personally, I hate Linux. I understand how it can help things (Routers) and it can do things extremely well (Servers), but for desktop use it's fucking stupid. Linux users have the nerve to bitch and complain about driver issues from manufacturers, which is insane, considering the manufacturers are just saving time and resources. I wouldn't give a shit about an OS that JUST broke the one percent market share either.

Linux is just bragging rights, to me at least. I was running a couple distros of Linux in VMWare, and some of them I had to enter console just to install a fucking program.

I honestly think the only reason people go for this shit is because it's free. If Linux wasn't free, they wouldn't even hit 0.1% market share. Between the Mac users who brag about their overprices laptop and the Linux losers who brag about knowing every command in console, I don't know who to hate more.

I find the only people that brag about Linux and make it an e-peen thing are people that want to do ridiculous shit for no reason at all, only for bragging rights.

Hey, some of those things end up being very useful. Just look at aalib.

Linux is just bragging rights, to me at least. I was running a couple distros of Linux in VMWare, and some of them I had to enter console just to install a fucking program.

I take it you weren't around in the days of DOS... I remember having to use a boot disk to play half of my games because I didn't have enough ram to play them normally.

No, I understand that. I just think that we need to be in a more advanced era, where we don't NEED to access a console to install a fucking program on Linux.

I have enough beef with Cisco routers as it is, Linux is a bit better though, lol.

Making computers easier to use was the worst thing to happen to them. =/

Not really, maybe if ONLY the GUI existed, yes. But, we still have DOS in Windows, etc. Things do get easier, but it's not limiting what we can already do.

Or is it?

=\

I wasn't talking about functionality, I meant the crowd it now attracts.

Ah, true.

the 'crowd' supports geeks all over the globe. if you care about 'our' kind you should be happy.

I support my kind, not yours.

you're posting on a gaming site.. that makes you geek if you're unaware...

I associate with people, not labels. I would be quite happy if PCs were as hard to use as they once were, so the likes of your kind wouldn't be able to operate them.

that post is either trolling or mindblowingly retarded.

Option C: Out of your league.

so you're saying that the revolution of computing has made the world worse?

I'm saying that the world has made computers worse.

bitter much?

... so?

idk, normally people see bitter as something negative and something you want to avoid.... i guess you're just 'different' or 'alternative'.

Holy crap, are you a dude or a chick?

?????

you make no sense.

Your picture - I can't tell which gender you represent.

i was making fun of you being emo.
that picture is older than the internet .... you must be living under a rock

can't believe you give in to his shitty trolling :)

i just cant tell anymore with this guy...

Oh, excuse me if I don't frequent emo sites to pick up on these. You sure showed me! Major burn!

In other news, you continue to prove me correct about the taint your kind have brought to the internet.

hahahha, oh wow.

weak vedic

too butthurt to even respond?

answer to your lies? uhh.. yeah none of them are true.

done. thanks for playing. now get a haircut

You again continue to prove them true - better than I could even describe. You're a shining example of the stupidity that the internet WASN'T.

sure gramps.

Thanks.

kinda like gamers having the nerve to whine about developers not supporting esports

ur a fukcing retard

yeah, OSP 4 LYF nig

he thinks hes funnier than he really is

It really depends of the application. If you need to go to low level or real time, use linux. For everything else, Windows.

I have tried several distros of linux - everyone of them gives me issues with hardware and even when I download a linux driver such as from nvidia - it still wont install without knowing how use the terminal commands a setting permissions ect - until such time as linux is point and click/plug and play - its going to be for the select few or dare I say computer nerds - I want an OS which updates itself without my input , one where i can go to any manu website and in two clicks update my drivers and run any game out of its box from the shop - linux cannot even come close to meeting half those needs

I don't think you've tried Ubuntu, it only took me a few clicks to get NVidia drivers up and running.

I want a car that drives itself. One that can repair itself, change parts out on it's own, and drive on wet/muddy/snowy surfaces without having to change the tires. Hell, I don't even want to go through the trouble of knowing how to read through a contract for a payment plan - that should all be automated. Why the hell should I actually know how to use or interact with a complex piece of machinery?

Do you also need someone to hold your cock while you take a piss? The day that computers require a license to operate will be the happiest day of my life.

you make sense

THey're not asking for a car to drive its self, they're asking for a car that's as easy to operate and manage as any other car. Putting in a new carburetor in a Windows machine is easy, and has support. Putting in a new carburetor in a Linux machine is most likely filled with bullshit, and may not even work because the software for it to run properly on Linux might not even fucking exist.

Knowing how to change a carburetor would be like knowing how to fix the hardware issues that might arise in Linux. If you're going to try to argue the point with the same analogy, at least get it right.

You say 'might' as if it rarely happens...

I have had a total of 2 hardware issues on 4 different computers using linux. One was on my netbook with it's integrated intel graphics, which causes small performance problems - not a big deal. The other was getting my Razer Diamondback 3G buttons to register properly. That took me a grand total of 10 minutes to fix.

Right, but that's you, not the entire population of users who have used Linux.

Yes, that's me. Educated, and prepared for these issues that might pop up. Where is the issue here?

that you're willing to waste so much time in fiddling with your OS and trolling on ESR..

All while holding down a job and paying attention to a wife. Better than you just trolling ESR.

seems like you're now just bragging about things that have no correlation to the original subject matter. Not saying you're egotistical, but you're giving off that image.

You said that the majority of people who have used Linux weren't educated to handle the issues that came up, and that I was. This is the entire point of what I had been saying since the start. You're not arguing against me, you're making my point more valid.

Fortunately all that people at the linuxFest conference aren't as educated as you are, otherwise they could just keep zealoting about how wonderful linux is instead of worrying about improving it.

Making something better does not equate to making it easier to use.

That's right. But making a tool easier to use equates to make it better.

The tools are already easy to use.

I don't think they would give licenses to trolls so you better keep your mouth shut. LOL!

it is called leasing.

Also it is interesting that you equate your cock with a car. Got issues you want to talk about?

I'm sure that this is just you simply not knowing English well enough to understand, so I'll let it slip this time.

so generous...

Well, maybe we bastardized the word a little but I am pretty sure leasing a car is not a thing that's only done in Germany.

And yeah, depending on the contract they will change your tires, repair the car and so on. I know that because the company I work for has such a contract.

But it must be that you simply don't know as much as you think you do, so I'll let it slide this time. ;)

I wasn't speaking of the leasing part - that was an obvious attempt at a troll, which you then tried to continue with your next line that made you look pretty silly.

so you consider telling you your mistakes to be trolling?

Well, I suppose that explains why you wouldn't ever admit to anything and rather chose to look dumb and unwilling to learn.

It wasn't a mistake - I merely made a more detailed description. Would you like me to dumb everything down for you when I post?

you made it sound as if the offer of a complete service pack didn't exist for cars.
While it really does.

Also less than 1% of all people repair every damage on their car by themselves and almost noone it by building the spare parts by themselves.

So, no. Your post was already dumb enough, no need to make it worse.

It's called a contract. You know, like I said?

And you don't have to read through it to sign it.

Like you said.

You don't - I do. Signing a contract without negotiating is ROFL.

And once again you leave the road of arguing actual statements in favor of follwing insulting assumptions. Good job!

Don't let the door hit you.

You haven't even tried arguing a point yet. It's like you're having a conversation with yourself here.

Is there anything like TimeMatters Front Office/Back Office (PC Law) for linux?

Even if not, there's WINE or Virtualbox.

How effective are these emulators? What kind speed loss should be expected?

With WINE, it depends. Some programs run just fine, others might have little issues, others completely will not run.

Virtualbox is just like VMWare in that you are essentially able to run multiple operating systems at the same time. On my linux computer, I run XP in Virtualbox, and the performance is perfect for general application use with a 2.2ghz dual core.

There is also Cedega, which is basically WINE but better - however, I don't know if you can simply use it with any application, as it's meant to be used with games. I did see Steam on the list of supported applications, so you never know. It costs money (you have to buy access to it in monthly payments) but there is no real demo for it, so I haven't even tested it to see if it's worth the money.

edit: Ubuntu has a great tool called Wubi that lets you install directly on a Windows partition while adding a bootloader to boot from the image on disk, so you don't even have to worry about damaging your windows partition or repartition at all. It's still a real linux install, but due to running off of an image on a windows partition, file access of all kinds would be slower than normal access. If you don't like it, you can uninstall it from add/remove programs and it will delete the image and remove the bootloader.

is vbox the same in linux as on windows?
if so you lose a lot of performance since its layer 2...

The very same - but unless you're running a game, the performance loss shouldn't matter.

yeah if you're just running tests i guess. but for heavier applications you want layer 1 based virtualization...

Which he is not.

change thread title to "..as a desktop" and you will have gained my sympathy...

True. I don't understand why the hell they are comparing UI's. Aquashark you are an effing cunt. Post more SF news/videos and spend little time in things you don't have any clue.

Or better, lets compare Windows and Linux/Solaris as a servers. If you had any experiance in the way Windows treat their administrators with error codes, hidden/broken error logging, monitoring and stability you wouldn't talk shit about UNIX.

P.S. more daigo plz

if you watched the video it said from the start arguing about Linux on servers is out of the question, because it's rock solid there (duh)

also read #13 & #16, kthxbye

Windows wins because its also "free" in the sense that most systems run pirated copies. But Microsoft is pro-DRM, monopolistic, and closed source.

For example this are news for the RC of Win7 "The release candidate for Microsoft Windows 7 will expire June 2010, and the software giant will let users know they need to pay to upgrade by shutting down the system every two hours for three months." LOL

Once the options are
1) 200 bucks, close to 50% of the total cost of an office clone, for Windows (going the piracy way will be more punished by new legislation as time goes by)
or
2) Installing the most user friendly distro (Ubuntu at the moment) for free, maybe having to browse some forums or search assistance of a linux support guy for a fraction of the cost of a windows "license" to fix that sound or wireless driver that needs a little tweaking. Note that contrary to Windows that as seen in point 1, will be harder and harder to pirate sucessfuly while avoiding legal issues, Linux is getting better and better in driver support.

That said, i currently use XP for Desktop, its unrivaled till now, but saying that Linux sucks is, at least, short sighted. Linux is an awesome project.

My favorite Linux quote to date was a buddy of mine while working on installing whatever distro he was in to at the time. " Dammit! Linux is supposed to make me cool! Instead it just makes me pissed off!".

He was being ironic, before you spout some pretentious reply, but I lol'ed.

And with all he says in the presentation, he forgets the most basic of all, because they have it so deeply integrated in their abits they don't even notice it: A home desktop user will not use the command line console. Not even once. While linux keep needing the use of the console even if it's only for a few actions, it won't succeed for home desktops.

Kids with special needs and attention disorder please click here: http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.r...sktop.html

There are tons of closed source apps on Linux already. What does it matter?

Read everything. Thanks.

I read and responded to the part that you quoted.

I want you to read the whole "article".

Then quote the whole article or just post the link. You made it seem like that was an important reason.

The article itself is a lot of whining and not knowing Linux well enough to make a decision.

All right, Your Excellence, i have changed the link as per Your needs.

As i understand giving well-grounded reasons why something is bad is just a whining. I don't want to argue on this point knowing Your Excellences behaviour pattern that You must contradict everything.

Also, about Your remark regarding authors knowledge about Linux systems. What kind of knowledge do Your Excellence require? Would you like to see his diplomas? Know his working experiance?

In my opinion, these statements that are presented are simplistic enough for a common user to udnerstand them. For sintance, didn't you have any problems getting the sound to work after new *NIX system installation?

I agree (if Your Excellence agrees) that some points apply only to some ditros as for example Debian had greatly advanced with their package system so you practically never have to compile it (mainstream/commonly used applicaitons). You can just apt-get and voila.

Unfortunately, i don't feel making an effort in order to argue pointlessly with you. Because it would really lead to nowhere.

As i understand giving well-grounded reasons why something is bad is just a whining. I don't want to argue on this point knowing Your Excellences behaviour pattern that You must contradict everything.

You mean you don't know enough about Linux to actually comment on any specifics that might come up.

For sintance, didn't you have any problems getting the sound to work after new *NIX system installation?

Not on my Linux install, my FreeBSD install, or the WUBI install on my netbook. You?

edit: to be fair, I'm posting this on my Windows 7 box, though!

Unfortunately, i don't feel making an effort in order to argue pointlessly with you. Because it would really lead to nowhere.

It's a good thing, too, since anything I attempted to inform you about would probably crash right into your ignorance. It's pointless not to argue things, since nothing can be perfect.

You see thats why i don't want to argue with you. Your post is not relevant to this journal topic. Try again please.

The article you posted brought up points which don't deal with the journal topic, and is largely either incorrect, or due to ignorance on the user's part, void of reason.

You didn't respond to my question - are you having trouble with sound on your *NIX box?