PM Fojji, he knows more about LCD refresh rate then I do.

If you lower your FPS, you lower your rate of packet flow to the server. (I think)

Just PM him =)

Fox uses 333 or 75 afaik, but he uses 75 hz on the monitor. For 60hz, then 125fps is the optimal value since you display aprox every other frame.

Should just use 60hz, isn't true 75hz anyway, and adds lag:P

Afaik the vx922 runs at proper 75hz in native.

i have my fps at 125
maxpackets at 63

63 maxpackets is the worst thing you can do. You should always run it at 125 or whatever your fps is.

idk, it's working for me
even if you're at 125fps, and you're on an lcd with a refresh of 60hz, you're only seeing about 60fps
so that's what i was going off of
it's been working fine for me, my hit reg is just fine

Yeah maybe your hitreg but you lag and warp to everyone else and appear choppy. If it's not detrimental to your game you should use 125 fps even if the lcd is what it is.

ive asked people if i lag and warp, no one's told me that i do

125/125 always worked best for me on a laptop

what what what??? 125Hz on a Laptop-LCD???

no, fps/maxpackets

If your monitor supports 75 hertz at NON-NATIVE RESOLUTIONS!

cap your fps at 75

cap your refresh rate at 75hz

use a resolution between 640x480 and 1024x768
This step is monitor dependent, basically set it to any resolution that your LCD supports at 75hz. On my samsung 2253bw, up to 1024x768 supports 75hz.

The final step, and probably the most important, is to enable triple buffering in your video cards control panel.

I spent about 3 days when I got my monitor looking for optimal settings. This configuration is without a doubt the best if you can support 75hz. If your LCD gets 60hz max at all resolutions, use native res with 120 fps. On any LCD native res will be clearer than my suggested settings but much choppier, and you will definitely have more input lag.

With my LCD I want to set it to a resolution like 1024x768 and have black bars on the sides but it doesn't work when I change the scaling in the Nvidia control panel
I guess a lot of people have this problem because of Nvidia drivers
Do you know much about it?
My card is a 9800GTX

You need to use the scale to aspect option (the one below the one you are using). IMO Nvidia scaler is bad, image is very blurry (8800GTS 512M) compared to my onboard scaler. Res of 1024x768 scaled by nvidia looks as blurry as 640x480 scaled by my monitors scaler (both scaled up to 1600x1200). It also scales to either native or 1:1 pixel mapping which takes away the 75hz on a lot of monitors.

I should've been more clear in my first post. I was already using the 'Use NVIDIA scaling with fixed-aspect ratio' option. It just simply doesn't work. It does not produce black bars except when I change the refresh to 75, and then it will incorrectly put bars on the top and bottom and make it even more stretched.
I have already tried different driver versions and the enable overscan fix even though it's for those with 8800 cards.
My monitor is a 22" Acer AL2216W.

This might be a dumb question, but you are using a DVI-D connection?

Sounds strange to me that your monitor would show fullscreen when scaling is set to aspect. Since you are getting the black borders when not using nvidia scaling your monitor is most likely set to scale to aspect. If you can borrow another monitor for a few hours, try to see if the same thing happens with that.

Graphics chip on 9800GTX should be same as on my 8800GTS 512 (G92) so strange that it works fine on my monitor while not on yours.

Yes I am using DVI-D

Finally got it working. These are the steps I used:
Change flat panel scaling to Use NVIDIA scaling with fixed-aspect ratio
Go to Manage custom resolutions
Go to Create
(You have to follow the next steps in this exact order or it will not work)
Go to Advanced
Change Timing standard to CVT reduced blank
Change Horizontal desktop pixels to whatever value you wish to use (in my case 1024)
Change Vertical desktop pixels to whatever value you wish to use (in my case 768)
Change GDI Refresh rate to whatever value your monitor can handle (in my case 60, 70, or 75)
Go to Test
It should work from now on

I wasted many hours trying to figure this bullshit out. The trick is that I had to change the timing standard before putting in the resolution values, not after.
Fuck Nvidia.

Worked fine on my monitor, just installed the monitor drivers (.inf file) and it set aspect ratio perfectly.

hey just a few queries... i can set my refresh rate to 75hz in Windows right from 640x480 upto 1280x1024. does this mean my monitor supports that refresh rate in a "non native resolution"? i like playing with 640x480 in game but it's slightly blurry.

do you enable vsync either in the card control panel or in game before enabling triple buffering?

in Quake 3, when you cap your FPS to 75, you are automatically capping your Maxpackets to that as well. isn't that a problem?

Yes to your first question.

Vsync has only one advantage, which is image quality at the cost of latency.

Tripple buffering gives a smoother gameplay experience renders up to three frames in before showing it on screen. With 100fps your on screen images would be between 30 and 40 ms behind the gameworld.

Lower maxpackets makes you send less updates and maximum delay would be something around 13.3ms compared to 8ms before you send the packet. Delay between images would be 13.3ms compared to 16ms onscreen. Your actions would prob have slightly more latency, but onscreen delay would be slightly less. Wouldn't be surprised if it about evens out.

thanks for the explanation but it's slightly too technical for me. i don't think the lower maxpackets is too detrimental to my game but i'll have to play a little more to be sure.

The ms is milliseconds of added lag. Forgot to add that there is no maxpackets 75, it's either 77 or 72 (aprox).

13.3ms is the added lag with packets being sent out at 75 per second.
8ms is the added lag with packets being sent out at 125 packets per second.

16.67ms is the on screen delay between two frames at 60fps
13.33ms is the on screen delay between two frames at 75fps

with 77fps, 75hz and 77maxpackets you would get worst case delay:
13.3ms+13ms = 26.3ms shared over onscreen and sending to server

with 125fps, 60hz and 125maxpackets you would get worst case delay:
16.7ms+8ms = 24.7ms shared over onscreen and sending to server.

Not sure what is worse, however the second example should react faster to fireing of weapons while the first example should make it easier to follow the gameworld. Hope this explenation is a little bit more straightforward and easier to understand.

yea thanks that was easy to understand :) anyway, my CRT arrived sometime back lol.

What do you suggest our settings to be if the highest my monitor supports is 75hz?

maxpackets=?
fps=?
hz=?

Any suggestions?

Three alternatives (assuming that you play a quake engine game with FPS indpendant physics):
Alternative 1: Maxpackets 77, FPS 77, HZ 75 (aprox every frame displayed, with little blending of frames)
Alternative 2: Maxpakets 125, FPS 125, HZ 60 (aprox every other frame displayed, with little blending of frames)
Alternative 2: Maxpakets 125, FPS 125, HZ 75 (frames are blended all the time, can cause tearing)

If fps 333 is available in a Q3 engine game you are playing, then that is supposed to be the smoothest value you can get. Test and see what you like better.

...are you god?

no, he has two alternative #2's ;P muhaha

I dont recommand playing with 75 hz on a lcd since they cant run it stable. It would always fluctuate between 60 and 75, ruining the game fluidity. (I dont remember where i read this, but it was a reliable source)

Afaik it depends on the LCD, some do 75hz well others don't. I use 60hz, maxpackets and fps 125 myself. Fox uses 75hz though and prefers that.

That's what i would use if i had a lcd screen :)

i play on 111fps 100 hz, what mp should i use?

If you must have 111fps, then set the maxpackets to 125, which should send 111 times per second.

never....

ever ever ever ever ever enable Vsynch in a multiplayer game.

you obviously havn't seen my setup..

what does your setup have to do with not wanting to use vsynch?

because my setup uses v-synch ofcourse!

You should turn that off.

why? worse image quality and it becomes less smooth if I turn it off. seems like a bad idea to me!

It adds a significant amount of delay on the image. Even just the mouse cursor is less responsive in menu when vsync is on. It's your call, but I promise your score will improve if you turn it off.

no it don't. and I even double checked right now. it's equally responsive but when I use v-synch (r_swapinterval 1 and on in nvidia control panel) everything becomes ALOT more smooth. even if I double the fps it's not the same.

and I don't use it in qlive, and the feeling is exactly the same between it and q3.

should perhaps note that I'm using a crt with 120hz. I wouldn't use v-synch with a lcd or with less hz on the monitor.

the feeling of "smoothness" has nothing to do with the delay you got. strictly technically speaking v-sync _has_ to add a certain delay - that's just how it is. fine if you like it (similar to m_filter) but it does have some extra delay :)

maybe it does, but the amount is so minimal that it doesn't affect me. my point is that v-synch doesn't HAVE to be bad all the time.

yeah it's fine if it doesn't affect you.

vsync basically puts a "wait" into the frame buffer to make sure only whole frames get displayed on your screen. that's also why it appears to be smoother because it eliminates tearing in a rather drastic way. i still wouldn't do it in a fps for obvious reasons (hey your pc is now holding back the next frame from getting drawn...) - but do as you wish :S

You don't have a crt with 120 hertz on the vertical refresh. You have a crt with a 120hz horizontal refresh. You're too noob to discuss this with further. Have fun with that.

this feels like discussing sound with an audiophile.

the amount of delay it might add is so miniscule that I don't notice it, and it surely doesn't hurt my game or aim. and if the drawback of using it is so small that I don't even notice it, why is it a bad thing? I understand that technically it should be bad. but once again, if I go by feeling then using v-synch is better than not. regardless of the numbers behind it.

so again, why is this bad for me?

unless you're just one of the worst players to ever touch the game, then your game will improve if you turn it off. I don't care one way or another, as I'll probably never play you, assuming your flag assignment is correct. If you can't tell the delay from enabling v-sync then it's a waste you even using a crt.
I have one of the fastest crt monitors that you can get (160hz horizontal refresh) and I still wouldn't dream of enabling v-sync unless it's a slow paced game. Really slow.

you're disregarding the fact that I say there's no delay. maybe I'm really that jaded that I don't feel it. but I doubt it. I'll humor you and try without a few matches and see if there's any noticable difference in my stats or whatever. I still say I benefit more from it, in my scenario.

I'm disregarding the fact that you claim that there's no delay because I know that you're wrong.

sorry, I meant significant delay, which there isn't. I know there's some delay, but not as significant as you say.

You're fuckin retarded. Stop talking to me.

Don't start on the audiophile thing, because unless your hearing is impaired, iBuds are clearly shit even to low priced models from good brands (not Bose, by the way). If you actually listen to music instead of downloading it to your iPod with a "listen once and try something new" attitude, you'd clearly hear the difference.

I excuse you if you mean proper audiophiles, however.

I meant the proper kind :) the one's who insists it sounds better and "more transparent" (gotta love that expression) when you're using gold in your conductors.

I'm a musician and recording engineer (not professional, but close to it) and I've come across quite alot of sound snobbery in my short but colorful life! :D

and iPods are shit :(

I always thought that native resolutions produce smallest input lag. Also vsync creates very big mouse delay and maxpackets on 75 is not way to go imo :)

so I tried the 75 fps on my 75hz 640res LCD monitor and it has alot more tearing than when I set it to 125.. triple buffering is on. I'll stick with 125fps

what did you do about res scaling? and do you have ati?

mouse input feels like shit when you go below 100fps

i used 125fps 60hz for as long as i had an lcd, which is about 4 years, but currently i've been using 85hz (yes 85) with vsync, no triple buffering in quakelive and its much more enjoyable to play, aim is still top notch and may have even improved from being able to follow things easier.

If you have an Nvidia card you can force the max number of pre-rendered frames. Lower is better since it stops the card from showing you very old frames. Higher gives smoother frame-rate but smoothness is not a problem in older games, since your computer would have no problems keeping up with the game.

This helped a lot, thanks!

166fps

That's what I use on my CRT where I can, as it's closest to double my puny 85Hz refresh rate.

I think alot of stuff you guys are arguing about is people perceptions of benefit. I play cs, i would NEVER turn vsynch on. it blows. makes me feel like um drunk or something. I mean if you play competitively why would you WILLINGLY add more delay to your actions? i mean playing crysis with vynch ok, looks amazing. quake or cs or anything that makes you flick your mouse so hard you could kill a cat a big no. Whats the use? the only positive thing about your argument is you arent blaming your performance on your equipment. BUT, unlike the realworld, equipment has a dramatic impact regardless of how bad you are. good mouse(non laser) + good mousepad + the right sensitivity makes you leaps and bound better than someone who claims their 10$ mouse is "just fine". your Vsynch settings are technically and realistically NOT ok, your are just either willing to sacrifice time for looks, you play shitty people, or have a slow brain and cant perceive the latency. As for audiophile, perceptions are again subjective. the amount of detail one can draw from a stimulus is very different. I mean if i change the POWER CABLE to my amp, I HEAR a difference and i don't care what anyone tells me. I could do it blind folded. Same thing with interconnects from my CD player to my amp. 300$ cables sound dramatically better than the cheap chines stock ones. Same thing if someone were to remove my AC filter, you can hear it. Audiophile equipment provides very real advantages. the only thing that leaves people jaded is the price. my headphone setup is worth over 3000 USD. I was willing to pay that as i appreciate it that much. If someone else isn't, they are fine to say so, but they cannot tell me it is useless or doesn't give any benefit because they are wrong. So in conclusion, use vsynch if you want. just know you are a scrub and are holding yourself back even if you dont know it.

I mean if i change the POWER CABLE to my amp, I HEAR a difference and i don't care what anyone tells me.

Hi Flipper !

Yes I have been known to use ecolocation too :P. But in all seriousness im 18. a lot of what i am able to hear with disspear in 5 years :(.

Haha, don't worry about it m8. Since I discovered raves and clubbing at your age I havn't lost my hearing, or any experienced any significant difference, just the occasional ringing.

Music is meant to be played loud, fuck the future, dance in the present.

Haha true... to a degree. I mean how many people drive high and never have anything happen to them? And how many crash and kill themselves/others? Not many, but all that matters is if it happends you, right? Only has to happen once. :P maybe I'm cynical but I make sure not to play music TOO loud and I wear earplugs at concerts... and I don't care if people thinks that makes me a wussy :P. So I'm happy you are still able to enjoy listening to music even after "abuse" but bare in mind that life is unfair like that most often. People who don't give a shit seem to never get punished for it :P. and THAT is why there is no god :P.

*derail*

What audio equipment have you got for your headphone setup?

dml, I have 2 pairs of headphones. Grado 325i and Sennheiser HD 600. I mostly use the Sennheisers as they are better for prolonged periods of listening and comfier and offer a much better soundstage. The Grados are more musical and jumpy -great for rock, but my amp that I use, Little-Dot MKV is a very, VERY good, but solid state amp, and is too clinical for the Grados, and they hurt my ears so I let my brother use them. The Sennheisers are 300 ohms and the Grados are 32. I have a feeling the amp has way to much current for the Grados as the Grados sound fine on and iPod, whereas on an iPod the Senns sound like mud. The "Sennheiser veil" seems to be removed with solid state amps in my experience. I use a PS audio Quintet Powercenter passive AC filter. (fancy name for an expensive-ass powerbar, very worth the money though. makes the contrast of lows and highs astounding.). I use Audioquest Diamond back interconnects, for the price they are very nice. People generally ignore interconnects but I noticed an immediate improvement when I installed them, and even more after 2 weeks of burn in. My CD player is a NAD BEE 525 its a crisp CD player and at its price point its unbeatable. All the prices I paid for my setup are Canadian, so if you are lucky enough to live in the states you can get this setup for MUCH cheaper.

Little Dot is a small chinese company. you can find their amps on Ebay or at www.Little-Tube.com . I know chinese stuff isn't generally considered Audiophile (or ever for that matter), but I read countless positive reviews on Head-fi.org and other respectable sites and decided to take a chance as the only competing headphone amps i could find were 1k US and the little dot was 350 US with shipping. I have been VERY pleased with its sound quality. Great depth to the bass, clear highs and mids that aren't overwhelming.

Hoped this is what you wanted. If you have a budget and want to get the most out of it would be more than willing to suggest products and talk about it with you.

In the summer I am hoping to either sell my NAD cd player and buy a CEC 51 TL - XR. its apparently the best CD player until you hit 10k. they are 1.5 k in the states and 2k in Canada. They are absolutely astounding to hear. OR I want to sell my Grados and buy a pair of Stax 404 again they are about 1.5k us and 2k CDN. I can't afford both but im leaning towards the CD player.

Nah I was just interested. Personally I have a Cambridge Audio Azur 740C, Creek OBH-21SE, and AKG K601.

I was considering the Stax 404 too, but from what I gather I wonder if the presentation won't be too bright for me with my current CD player. Plus they're probably more practical for a raw listening purpose, and as I use my computer quite a lot I need something I can pick up and listen to anything with, which my K601 does well. I think more I should consider changing amp, and looking at interconnect and power source upgrades. Though as I just bought a new monitor I probably won't be getting any of those in the near future.

And just to keep things on topic, the few times I ever tried vsync my thoughts were the same... the delay was so noticeable I can't imagine anyone not being able to notice it, and wanting to put it on. If you match your frame rate well, screen tearing isn't that bad anyway.

It would be pretty amusing if someone added a poor cordless mouse, vsync on, a monitor with major input lag, and then gave it you to play with. Trying to win against half decent players with low lag hardware would be like trying to play Twister with a contortionist.

Yeah you are definitely right about the raw listening being more appropriate. As far as being bright I would say its maybe just the difference between dynamic and electrostatics? A lot of people claim they have no base etc, but a lot of what people consider bass, even people who listen attentively is just this bloated sweeping sound. Bass is all about the timber and such not about the booming and pumping from a purist perspective, but hey who dances without thumping bass :P but I'm sure you have thought about all this. Grado's, from what I have heard are very bright, so if you are worried about that stay away!! :P. As far as power source upgrades go, I recommend PS audio. I have been more than happy with their products. Even their "cheaper" power bars offer a great improvement with the filtration they do. The link is the model I bought, there is a cheaper one with 4 ports instead of 10.

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/quintet?cat=power

sta|1n

It's not so much the quantity, as you're right, with headphones large quantity is most often just boomy (you simply can't create the volume for such low frequencies on a 40mm driver sitting a few centimetres out of your ear). I'm more concerned about how detailed and clinical the high end will be, regardless of the bass. I especially find brightness a problem in headphones compared to speakers... I guess it's just how close they are that makes the difference. Then again, electrostats are described as effortless, and they don't have the same punch as dynamics, so I probably wouldn't feel the need to turn the volume up much higher (whereas sometimes you do with dynamics, because you get that extra clean punch).

bigNDpants

displayrefresh 60
maxfps 125
maxpackets 125

done:P

There's no use in having 60fps, using a higher fps just ensures you render the most recent frame.

SUCK COCK EVERYDAY!