needs more duel maps instead of ctf maps :(

we need more proper maps in general
not just duel, but also ctf and tdm.

and not crappy OLD maps.

sure, a remake of an old map is better then no map at all, but I would like to play a _NEW_ map.

looks cool but i don't play CTF...

it's probably because they're going to have ctf at qcon, i'd imagine.

6 Maps in 6 Weeks....none of any interest

mmm I'm still wondering why they chose to add this particular map from the Threewave packs. It's not really the best...

same here

"In 1999, id Software contracted two young developers, Michael "Casey" Goodhead and Dave "Zoid" Kirsch (known collectively as "Threewave") to create 3 Capture the Flag arenas for QUAKE III Arena."

As noted, we own 3 of the Threewave maps, this was one of them. Most of the maps from the 3wave pak (such as Spider Crossings, Camper Crossings, Japanese Castles) were community additions later added to Threewave's set of maps.

So, did Scancode et.al refuse to let their maps be a partr of ql, or were you unable to contact them in the first place?

its not a matter of allowing it

its related to some retarded law in the US which makes it impossible for companies to accept donations.
id would have to pay "the value what its worth" as IP to the creator of the map. its not allowed to pay i.e. 1 dollar. it would have to be determined what the real actual value would be and that has to be possible to be proved to some commission or whatever.

and since id owns/controls everything without the possibility of community additions, its going to be hard to have community created maps added to it.......
:(

I think its crazy... there should be some way to get around the law I'd say, but seems to be very hard :(

There seems to be a new reason every day, and nobody has yet pointed to id saying this was the reason, or the existence of the law itself.

what about the q4 community mappack from id then?

Technically, if the law was real, they didn't profit from those maps. They would be using these maps for ads.

Probably, it's okay if just nobody plays the game.

so no ztn or aerowalk?
Maybe id should ask the inventor for permission to rebuild these maps for ql, if there is a will, there is also a way, but probably there is no will :-)

Would it be possible for you to tell us what are the two other ones ?

Ofc, theyre notPopularCtfMap_2 and notPopularCtfMap_3.

q3w2 the popular one by casey, one of the best maps in CTF, imo

see bottom of the page
http://www.funender.com/quake/threewave/manua...index.html

wcp15, the best ctf map.

w2, shit +back alldef map, but still better than w1 :D :P

q3wctf2 and q3wctf3, they are so much more enjoyable than this one, but it's still better than nothing :P

well its quite obvious the 3 maps you got the rights for are q3wctf1 - q3wctf3, i guess what xou really meant was... why did you start with the ONE map out of the 3 that nearly no one liked compared to the other 2 which got a lot of playtime in q3.

you got me wrong.

well then its what i mean! =/

man the same old story again. just send an email to the community mappers and ask for permission. is that so hard?

Or you could say thank you for delivering yet more free content to a thankless community, is that so hard?

oh I'm sorry, I was under the impression importing already made maps everyone wants into ql is easier than making new maps noone cares about.

man the same old story again. that was done: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1522383

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1555156#pid1555156

Yup, and we've been in contact with many mappers. I started speaking to many of them half a year before that thread even.

wait, so you're saying you've been talking to them for a year and a half and still no maps have been imported. what's the problem?

Complicated world sure is complicated.

thanks for very useful update mr. spokesman

Just guessing it comes down to money. Probably something like this:

id: Hey we wanna use your map as a basis for a map in QuakeLive!
Mapper: OK, why do you have to modify the map?
id: To put ads in it.
Mapper: How much will you pay me? (or alternatively "I REFUSE TO SELL OUT! I AM AN ARTEEST!!!!")

So that's the question - what sort of pay structure do you work out in these situations? It's free to us, but id wants to make money here - and giving away too much on a map on a usage model, rather than a lump sum, can have implications down the road, even if it makes sense now. When you have the volume of maps out there that Q3 does, you don't want to go setting a precedent that makes adding maps in the future a financial obstacle, but the mappers want a fair deal as well.

While we have folks here clamoring for the classic maps, some maps would go from OK to fantastic with some small modifications, so it's not a stretch to say from the 8-10 maps everyone would be happy with, there are probably many more that would be acceptable with tweaking.

Personally though, bring on the new maps! I've seen and played so many games on dm6, cp9, and ztn1 that I really could give 2 shits whether they are (or were) brought in to Qlive or not - to me, the existing maps id owned the rights to were a good base to build off of, but that's it. And I think their target audience (ie expanding it beyond the people who want those maps so voraciously) could give 1.5, 1, or possibly even less than 1 shit about those maps. Siberia and Ironworks are pretty good, and young.

ironworks and siberia are a breath of fresh air for ctf maps
the maps with runes don't count. imba maps are imba

maybe hes just getting tired of having to reply to people with an uptight attitude like you.....



although Sync, you may wanne put together a little text file so you can just do copy/paste more easily :)

so instead copy-pasting his alleged update you write a rant. nice

a rant?
not really.

a rant would be more like my response to you: blow me.

you're not being constructive

most of them even tbh:)

You managed to get your hands on swelt and wviperw? :)

Thanks for the details! Some updates just lack this kind of explanation for us :)

Most of those are actually Q3 versions of QW CTF maps. This one was originally called CTF2M2 - Spill The Blood.

ah. that makes sense.

How about "1 duel map that doesn't suck".

You've really got a one track mind, dontcha?
I nearly plussed you for making a post without the letters z, t, or n in it.

I see at least 2 of those 3 tho..

please do so.. as you probably know, kids need some affirmation from their 'parents'.
Maybe then he is happy again and he is going to stop his mindless rant

didnt mean to [+] you :<

l2aim :>

1 new map out of 3 so far?

tnx Casey & Zoid ^^

Are those voids around quad?

YEAH THAT'S FUN.

Yeeeeah void who would have thought!!! I mean, seriously, void! awesome... really.

Well, it was partly made by Dave "Void" Kirsch after all.

works for my pub ctf stuff :D

I don't know guys. It's nice you have the effort to bring new maps in but this 6 maps in 6 weaks "campaign" I am really not sure what to think about it.

Maybe an interesting idea, how to get some cool maps, would be mapmaking contest with cash rewarded say best 10 places. Of course you would obtatin full rights for the maps (or at least the right to include it into the game) from the participants in the contest, as I see the rights are the biggest issue with QL maps.

Or just find the ztn guy ... :-)

Making good maps isn't hard, getting people to play them is.

As I said theres the rights issue with the maps, I know there are hundrets of them. Secondly People are used to play maps which are fun. I liked to play pdm6, ztn3t1 and hub3aeroq3 in duel the most, well and those were the most played maps in duel. Coincidence? No. People play maps which are fun, which bring them joy. That doesn't go for individuals but for general opinion. What makes map 'good' as you refered? I guess, what makes a map good is actually that it is played by many people and they have fun while playing it.

You can e.g. try making a poll with question which of the QL FFA maps feels the best? And theres a huge probability that pdm6 would get the most votes. You can't say as an argument that the other maps are not played enough since it kinda goes in cycle there (yeah its also based on number of players). Moreover pdm6 is very much the most played map in TDM and duel (QL). Then if you put say 10 new maps in that cycle you can see which are played more and which less, what is the disconnect/connect ratio while playing the maps, which maps are often voted and so on, progress/changes in time, thats what statistics are good for and QL has great advantage of gathering the data.

you're not really making any good arguments. When i started i first tried pro-q3tourney4 cause others played it, same with dm6, i really hated that, from playing the singleplayer Q3 campaign the only map i enjoyed was the 4 player FFA on DM13. People will play what other people play, i think its a few people that decides what maps are fun, and obviously once you've played a map many times you get acquainted with it and it will automatically feel good for you. That said i think a lot of the new players in Quake Live enjoys stronghold ctf, QZCA2(trinity thingy), and of course qzdm6, but i don't think they know why :p i'd agree QZCA2 is great for clan arena. And might be good for other modes too :)

I am not making any good arguments? And what have you done? You showed me an example of preference of one individual(you), what's that good for? You might not be an average Joe u know. Preferences on many individuals show which maps are played. If e.g. John, Jack and Lucy like dm6 the best and some weird individual called say light:) likes dm13 with 4 players, he would have to either play alone or join the majority but at the end you have the most popular map - dm6, understood? About the maps not being played enough, you should just read again my second paragraph in the post above. So what exactly makes people to like dm6 that much? Hard to say, maybe it's the great quad area, panels, 3 levels, good item placement or all combined together. It's really tricky to say or estimate which map is great and eventually becomes popular, because the gameplay of it evolves and it will be shown later on. It could feel great on a noob level but when you get used to it, you will notice it's e.g. unbalance and the results will be 30:0 in the first game and 0:30 in the second against the same opponent or it'll become boring soon. I guess one of the few good ways how to get some results is, to test the gameplay of it for some time.

Yup, new maps, and then enforce them to being played a lot somehow, i'm not the big analyst of maps but i'm quite sure its not always the best maps that are played most. And i still believe average joe will indeed play the maps that others play, he doesn't have a choice cause he don't know how to callvote. :p

What i meant to say was that the popular maps was not necessarily very good, they might be popular for other reasons than people like them at first. In poker this is known as schooling. If you just call the big blind from early position, other people will call as well, they don't know why but they do it cause other do it. Its the same thing that happens when people play maps in Quake Live... For example QZCA1 is pretty horrible at least for 4on4 CA or more, yet its played a lot, and lots of people votes yes, just cause they played it a lot, some might even start callvoting it just because other do it.

I still think its a good idea getting new maps though, i don't think its very interesting to see ZtnT1 played for another 10 years, same with DM6 and DM7 really... The problem now is that theres a lack of even average TDM maps in Quake Live as it is.

That statement is retarded.

It's true though. Best example: pukka3tourney2

All comes down to insecurity. The same insecurity that haunts both VQ3 players and CPM players whenever a change in either is suggested. What if i lose my skills? What if i lose a game on a map i don't know? What if... and the list goes on, humans in general tend to hate changes, and its no different in a game thats really just played for fun.

I'd blame laziness

I'd blame fear.

For every mapper like thefury (aka summatra) there are 50 mappers who can't do jack squat. Furthermore, even an awesome mapper like thefury doesn't put out great competition maps every time (with that "slight" I should note that I personally love 3 of his maps).

Getting people to play your map isn't as hard as people make it out to be. I should know, I managed to get people to play my q4 map "Fool's Run" and almost had it in the CPL even though it was ugly as sin and had a couple major gameplay flaws.

well the situations in q3, q3 and ql are very differently
i would agree that it is very hard to get people to play a new map in q3
inthe beginning of q4 it was easier because the stock maps were shit/unusable for competition (with maybe 3-4 exceptions)
in ql on the other hand id has the ability to force new maps on every server which is a unique situation.

People have tried new maps plenty of times in Q3, just the majority of people don't believe they are actually all that good.

was it a good map in q3 ?

For public matches it was ok. In cws it was mostly chosen by weaker teams to not get totally owned by better teams, like ctf3. As far as i remember it was not very long in mappools though. Wctf2 or wctf3 would have been a far better choice to rerelease.

in the early days of Q3CTF it was only
q3ctf2, q3ctf3, q3wctf1, q3wctf2, q3wctf3.

and later more were added by the community

for a long time wctf1 was played... but when it was replaced by w1 it was phased out very fast.
the strange walls in mid on w1 were designed to make it less rail-heavy, but in the end I think it destroyed the flow too much.

unfortunately this is a remake of q3w1 and not of q3wctf1

(which actually makes it weird that id say they have the rights on these 3 maps from the original threewave mappack while this quakelive version is a remake of the q3w1 which id does not have the right to.... sure w1/wctf1 is a very small difference, but it IS different)

Three out of six new maps now. Anything usefull? no.

Fucking christ.

whine some moar

Shut the fuck up retard.

rage some moar

rage some moar nerd

qzdm20 is quite nice for clan arena :>

Its absolutely horrible for clan arena and ends up with teams gathering up in each side of the map spamming grens through the doors, if you think that makes a good clan arena map....
For TDM its absolutely horrible as well, and extremely cessy, so i think its pretty much a failed attempt, i think with some geometric polishing some of the areas could work well for duel though, but Clan Arena, you got to be kidding me.

gotta agree here, qzdm20 is not that great for CA for exactly what you mentioned. I could see FFA being fun though.

camp the lg room k thx

Siberia is decent.

My point: We need duel maps!

CTF > duel

Hell no!

Siberia is a fine map for ctf, I would suspect this will be ok aswell.

ok enough ctf maps.. waiting on some good ca maps pls (hidden fortress and qzca1 do not count).

No.

just port the ra3 ma... oh wait.. right.. they can't, cause mappers want billions of dollars for their maps.

cp9, cp9, cp9

next week's release will certainly quench the thirst of our Duelers

The only thing that will quench any duelers thirst is if next weeks post will start off with something along the lines of:

In 2009, id Software contracted two immortalized map designers, who's work has been used at a top level in all previous games in the quake franchise. The two developers Sten 'Ztn' Uusvali and Mattias 'Preacher' Konradsson will now be releasing their most popular creations for use with Quake Live!

I mean, it can't be that hard! Atleast Preacher is still around in the mapping community.
http://www.celephais.net/board/view_user.php?name=preacher_

ROFL @ the impossible flag capture map o_O

Back to 2001/2002 when this map was played, you needed to have 200/200 +quad+hast (+escort) to be able to comeback from the opponent base with their flag on your back... :x

OK "id" know how to code and develop a game, but they are too far away from the community to do a thing like that. Do they read us ?

Just put the top10 most played maps of Q3CTF (some old good ones, and more recent played ones). Of course qzwcp9 is at least the more awaited map from CTF players.

although i agree that there would have been better maps to begin with, they stated that the map got changed and polished quite a bit. so lets see how it tourns out. i really like the 2 other new ctf maps

I dont want more old maps.
I want new maps.

but not this shit like qzdm20 hidden fortress.

none of the maps are made with competition in mind.


although I do think that QZDM20 can be superb for 2v2 TDM.
for 4v4 its simply too small.

i think ID software are full of good programmers but empty of any experienced player....

Agreed. It feels like in Formula 1 the engineers didn't listen to the drivers when adjusting the racecars ...

So the problem with custom maps is that id doesn't own them. I wonder if they're allowed to get rid of range based LG damage, to make Team Arena an own gametype and separate it from regular CTF, and to fix TDM settings. ;)

You can't even get a consensus on DM6 being shit or not from the duelers. Same with CTF maps.

I'm not sure if somebody said the reason they don't include ztn is because they can't contact with ztn, but if his real name is Sten Uusvali as someone said earlier, he might be this one in facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/people/Sten-Uusvali/1575289133

Stalker!

as in any other ql update thread, i'll ask in this one as well: mac client? now? pls?

is there no pc near you? Gaming=PC
if youre rich and famous and got a mac, buy a PC too :D

i have a windows laptop (work), every now and then i play ql at work, but it just takes too damn long to load up this windows crap :p q3 runs perfectly fine on my old macbook...

gief chrome support
:/

6 new maps? 2/3 are recycled older maps.

I would really like to see some brand new content.

Maybe some sort of community contest would be in order - sort of like they did for q4. It would produce tons of good content, and not take too much effort on id's part.

Needs more stormshadow maps

All what QL needs is hub3aeroq3!

I don't know why people bother complaining. You're all going to play this anyway while wishing for everything Q3 already has had to offer for years.

Here's hoping for HUB?

i, for one, welcome our new hoping overlords

i pubbed this a bit, felt decent, although RA was in kind of an odd spot.
any case, i see fast-cap potential here :]]

didn't you understand by now? dueling is not very profitable for id, they focus on team modes because it draws in more players

they still ignore tdm tho, and they even said so.

CTF and CA were the most popular public server modes in Q3.

so?

THEY STILL IGNORE TDM =(

They don't see it as of as great benefit to QL as a successful product.

BUT WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY =(

I though that FFA in excessive mod was the most popular (just take a look in your ingame q3browser... there is "only" FFA Excessive@sux servers)

How long has excessive been out?

I can understand adding NEW maps. But adding old maps that were terrible 9years ago..and are still terrible. Seems like a big pile of pointless. Most popular maps of their mod(just like dm6).
q3wcp9
ra3map11
ztn
At the very least these 3maps should be in QLive in some form or another. I would love to hear a detailed explanation as to why they are not.

They absolutly not focus on team modes :P how can a company say they are focussing on team modes if they implement TDM as it is now..

Weaponspawn time is a joke, no speclock functions, no coach functions.. no timeout function.. pretty much everything needed for Team Death Match is missing :(

And as this is basic functionality same for CTF.. CA..

While ESReality is an excessive whine fest as usual (even when getting free content) there is a point to it though.

It feels like with just a few tweaks and maps, the game could be superb, when you are so close, it gets kinda frustrating when you don't actually see it completely realized.

well, just quickly visited alone the map, I can already feel the frustration given by tons of rail campers in flag room
furthermore the dangerous and only path to flag's platform isn't helping
looks like this map will need some tweaking in order to be playable (meaning scoring could happen ; seems like a 0-0 score type of map atm : frustraboring)

still.... I want _NEW_ maps.
not remakes of old ones.

hub3aeroq3!

!!!!

yeah no!

If you were an author of ztn1 or aerowalk/hub3 how much would you take for it?

1. I'd give away for free just for credits in MOTD.
2. I'd give away for 5 cents of each time map is played
3. I'd give away for 1000 dollars in one transaction.

Modify these values if you like. If you answer 2 just remember there are 20-30 server sites, each one has got about 30-50 servers spawned.

a) and a free trip to quakecon (hotel/flight).

You wouldn't if you had been there the past 2-3 years. Last year was easily the worst.

well i've never been and i don't think i ever will, but I think it would be a nice touch from id to offer a "VIP-id-package" or something like that to a fellow customer and avid gamer who helped improving the game.

some good idea:
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3981/qzztnv.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9541/ztn0001.jpg

i dont understand why map is unsymmetrical. this unsymmetry force to use one exactly above another intrances to middle and this actually limits number of it by 2. i think middle and flag rooms must be totally reworked and more intrances added

ids release statement states:

we've got a little something for everyone - Duel, CTF, and Clan Arena. Stay tuned for the latest and thanks for playing.

semmes like the y realy dont care about tdm anymore :/

ty to put the CTF map ever...i just really want to know how IDsoftware choose the new map....try to ask to CTF community not only in US !!!!



Although we've now released back-to-back CTF arenas, next week's release will certainly quench the thirst of our Duelers. Stay tuned.


some TDM MAP?

please DELETE all stupid maps like qzdm1 or something!

It can't be so hard looking in QL database and see which maps aren't used.

and please ZTN and HUB!!!! and any other good VS map.

id want lots of maps so they can advertise that they have "OVER XXX ARENAS TO FIGHT ACROSS".

It's like razer marketing.

...and here comes ZTN or Hub.

Owned!