ramps are more of a speed killer in vq3 than stairs could ever be.

indeed, just tried on wcp9 (ramps or stairs from rg to lg), can't decide myself about which one is the worth (ramps slow you down but in the same way everytime ; stairs can slow you down even more, or not -random)

arn't there other ways to fix this crap ?

rj to the top. ez.

i don't like them either, u can't jump them up if ur too fast and when running down the stairs u only got little control cuz ur actually not even running but falling them down which kinda sucks imo

falling down the stairs is so much more awesome and faster than the stupid ramp style sticking to the floor =/

then again if someone comes around the corner it's harder to stop

which is a part of the awesomeness that fjorgyn describes stairs to possess. unless you want forgiving gameplay, but vq3 originally was quite unforgiving.

i suggested solution here

http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25225

by the way my suggestions how to improve runes here

http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25180

I liked the rampjumps in quake 4.

Me too. I love how much people are seeing the movement superiority in Q4 now that QL has brought so many more players around.

q4's movement in q3's engine would be pretty good, ya :}

except for the crouch sliding which effectively ruined dynamic play

mm no :}

do you know what 'dynamic' means?

What is particularly dynamic about someone sliding around a corner? Sure, they can turn quicker, but you're missing out on the chance of the player strafe jumping just at the moment someone is putting a rocket/grenade under their feet and popping them into the air. This is what I define as dynamic in Quake.

If you're speaking about the ability to turn sharp, why do we need to extinguish the subtleties involved in strafe-jumping with the crouch sliding???? Why not increase air-control? Then we get the sharp turns *and* maintain the subtle dynamics involved in strafe jumping around a corner.

I'm sure there are some arguments to how crouch sliding involves finesse and skill, but so does strafe jumping (especially on turns) and it still maintains the dynamics that crouch sliding effectively negates.

Even one of the lead designers agreed that crouch sliding in Q4 was a clever but faulty concept. I can't find the quote, atm, but I assure you of it. I don't pretend to believe that one developer's beliefs means it is true, but I think it reveals that the developers were disappointed in the outcome of the gameplay.

Regardless, to each their own. If you prefer crouch-sliding to more air-control, then more power to you and all those who prefer Q4 to the other Quakes. Definitely we can see from Q4 tournaments it was a fast game because of the crouch sliding, but it was hardly dynamic. But so is Mario Kart, which feels just like crouch sliding. =)

which still doesn't mean that it isn't fun to play

Quote where he says otherwise.

apples, oranges

You write a load of BS and get [+]'d - well done.

Crouch sliding adds a dynamic to the game. Your whole post is just the fact you can't change direction quickly once you've chosen to slide, which is actually a dynamic in itself by allowing the player a tactical decision whether to give up dodging for speed and silence. I could go on, but its not worth it for such ignorant fanboy trolls.

edit; tbh, the one who stops posting first is the winner of the argument

are they the same as VQ3?

if so then that's pretty cool`

they're finally growing on me like some q3 players said they would.. I still have a problem with aiming while walking on them though.. say you're walking backwards on stairs and shoot a rail or any other weapon, it actually shoots above where you're aiming.. I'm trying to get used to this too but I still think it's pretty retarded.

You're not fully understanding what's happening, although you have a valid point. Your hit box gun muzzle is firing the shot in the normal place but your view is sunken as a part of smoothing stair movement. It would probably be better to use the player's view point as the origin.

I don't actually mind the speed on the stairs. What does annoy me a little is that when moving up some stairway and shoot, that shot is higher than you aimed.

The same thing applies when shooting people which are moving up a stairways as the hitbox doesn't seem to be where they are on the stairs.

ScOOT, I'll soon be able to beat you! Watch out next time. ;)

We can fix the stairs. injx did a good job of this in PMX afaik. It's something we've talked about, and would need some time to test the changes before rolling them out, but it would make it easier to traverse the stairs and jump off of them / up them.

People that like the Q3 stairs would be upset, but it is probably the best move.

what kind of fix he did? if you implement suggestions link to which i gave above people will be able to choose q3 or q4 stairs behaviour and noone will be upset

Yes but there's no reason to do all of that. There's an ACTUAL issue and we can fix it.


(p.s. People will ALWAYS be upset. ;)

all of that? is it realy so much to do if big part of code allready made in q4?
does "People that like the Q3 stairs would be upset" mean that "ACTUAL issue" is q3 style behavior as such?
i think you must remain most of good things of q3 stair behavoiur fixing only bad parts of it

I guess the lack of "ledge catching" feature in q4 makes a big difference on how to abord the stairs subject

my point is that q3 stairs positive thing reveals only above 320-340 ups. so it is logical to remain q3 strairs above 320-340 ups and make anything more appropriate under 320-340 ups, not necessary like in q4

I find them shitty at any speed

you have speed above 340 ups on them only if you wanna have such speed specifically when you falling through stair with strafing for example going downwards from ra on dm6 or making jump on ztn from upper level to RL.
stairs fills shitty when you dodge from your enemy or trying to make RJ moving on stair - in both cases your speed is hardly above 320 ups

nice !

what i like about the stair is how you have to be careful with your movement while fighting. going down makes you so vulnerable cause you cant change direction fast enough.
hope that doesnt get changes cause it would take away interesting spots in a lot of maps

sounds good :)

finally :}

DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING YOU'RE RUINING QUAKE3

=D

how is qlive interesting to cpm players anyway ;p

trolling platform

will someone ramp jump on it, double jump on one of its edges, or simply air control around it ?
but maybe it'll just be a vq3/ql players who'll be slowed down by borken physics when stepping on it, who knows

it will give whole cpm gameplay to everyone on map with it

don't you dare removing the ability to strafe/slide down the stairs without having to jump!

=/

I don't believe the fix removes this ability at all. I tested the changes a couple of months back, but we'd obviously do a lot of testing on the new code before we decided to go with the changes. I don't think anyone would want to remove the ease of sliding down.

The main change is that 1.) you don't have to hammer jump a billion times to move up stairs quickly, 2.) you don't have to perform surgery to rocketjump off of stairs, and then 3.) we apply some new friction code to the stairs so that while running/walking they still slow you down. So the end results is that they still slow players down unless they jump up them, but jumping up them is easier / more natural.

nice :} so at least i don't need to rebind my jump button from space to mouse2 :p

i assume you aren't mentioning the "shots being fired from above your head" issue because it's obvious that it'll get fixed and not because id still hasn't learned of it's existence (or importance)?

Well aware of that issue, it's just kinda a minor point when the discussion was ultimately about movement.

How about bitterman drown sound error?

:(

Has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

:)

and about uriel's wings... they're defective.

if they clip 'em again I'LL FUCKING KILL YOU ARQOIN!!!! ARRRRRRGHH!H!HHH!!!!!

What about adding old but non-blurry crosshairs for those who prefer lower resolutions??

>you don't have to hammer jump a billion times to move up stairs quickly

what about double jumps?
your stairs fix remembered me ramp behaviour in warsow

An alternative for mappers is to try the larger 32x8 steps instead of 16x8. They're obviously not ideal in all cases, however.

I don't like how you can't RJ properly on the stairs while your moving...have to stand still =\

If it makes cooller's movement on stairs less sexy I am against whatever it is that somebody is doing. :PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP