huh!

godfather himself

Better interview. The interviewer looks scared of the cam tho :>

Havent really thought it would be worth spending money on any Fatality hardware yet, but the microphone and that last gismo they talked about sounded kinda neat.

he looks pretty bored and clueless too

If those headphones don't have at least passive sound canceling they're worthless at a LAN.

sorry, I can't take so much fatality on 1 day

it would kinda help if he held the mic to fat when he talks ...

Can't wait for memory cards like that one to come down in price. They really do reduce boot/load times to less than a second!

"The netcode feels good"

I bet it does on DM17 FFA's.

fata is boring and he can win only "big" challenges like the ffa

pretty impressive

chris ferguson plays ql? awesome! :D

"current state of the pro-gaming"
let me guess, pro-gaming is broke ?

money is broke

if progaming is ever to suceed, it needs stability.
Only one game for a long, long time, not every year another game.
Tbh. what has changed since the days of Quake1 gameplaywise,
only different physics and/weapons, but not really better, just in a different style.
Just imagine if all the players of fps united to play one game,
what a big community we would have ... in the days of Q3 there were basically only 3 games, Quake, UT and CS, nothing else.
Nowadays there are so many different games with communitys, I cannot even count them. And as long as it stays like this gaming will never become big.
All the money in progaming in the early days was a product of the dotcom bubble anyway, too many people from the old no-internetgeneration speculated on the internet ... thinking this was the next gold rush ... they were wrong, only internetcompanys profited ... If I hear stuff like "x-fire messenger" getting sold for 100 Million $, I can only laugh ... or facebook being woth several 1000 billions ... I mean if you buy facebook, how will you get that money back? by advertising? ... lol ...
or google, yeah I agree it is a big company, they also have a lot of power, but their power is not so easy convertible into money ...
I agree it's a big company, but it's not that big ... they just have a high marketing value ...
in the same way money was inserted into progaming ... when it was still very little, also now with so many small scenes, you can't invest money into it, the group of people you attract is just too small,
I can understand fatal1ty does not play anymore, there is no money in gaming. But there could be if all the fps players only played on game. But this will never be the case.
And probably if there was one game with a big community, the manufacturer wouldn't hesitate any longer to bring out the sucessors, then people say "oh, there is a "2" in the name, so it must be better", the result is company makes easy money and the scenes get destroyed ...

progaming is just show business, and show business is having a hard time with the crisis
anyway less money = more fun into gaming, can't stand the competition nerds

competition = fun

apple = orange

well, from a certain point of view, far away

Because the highest skill comes from time invested. And time is money. The best, when being paid to play, are consistently going to do much better than those that can only play casually because they also have to have real jobs to cover their life expenses.

It's really not that difficult of a concept, I don't know why it's always lost on so many people on ESR. I guess many people here live with their parents or something.

I don't get your point

he will never compete in any tournament cos he know he will get smashed by every pro since he is rich already and he enjoy life by hanging out with money-friends and bitches.

Dunno why is he keep saying that he will compete in the tournaments...

However, this time was better interview and really great equipment he have!

I dunno about that. He was pretty rich and famous when Q4 had events and he came in and beat toxic (in a bo3, but then lost the 2nd bo3)

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1269883

fatal1ty pwned esr main page in 24 hours.

i want to blow my load all over his fatmouth

instead of using my fleshl1ght, ffs

fatal1ty sucks

Best gamer ever.

I'll never understand the reason people feel the need to constantly degrade fatal1ty (or what he's doing). He's a better man than me in the sense that he is at least trying to give back to the community in which he came/is a part of. I honestly wouldn't do a fucking thing for the gaming community and couldn't care whether or not it succeeds. Due to the constant whining and fecal mouth spray being farted out on or about anything, game developers that really care will eventually be broken down...with the only ones left being as sad, jaded, angry, and picky as the fine participants on this site (or others).

You signed up just to say this? American flag... so... Creative/OCZ marketing division?

I made an account for that post+others because I figured posting anonymously would usher in the predictable/convenient cries of 'anonymous posting' replies that have been all the rage... for years. And I'd have still typed the same message even if born a humble farmer from New Zealand; or maybe even a rich popular ninja from Japan. Seriously, the flag should have little to do with what I'm trying to get across.

Oh please, you tried to set up the whole "I don't care about the community" persona, only to spend your entire post promoting fatal1ty as a community patriot.

You're terrible at this, you know? Fat is basically the failures of CPL/WSVG/ESWC personified. He is one of the reasons that gaming can't be taken seriously, and your blind defense of him (without even knowing the community) only shows how marketing is more important than quality.

Why is he a failure of those organisations? If you ask people to mention a gamer Fatality is the one they are most likely to mention every time.

My experience is even that they have a very positive impression of him, so your statement makes no sense unless you post some arguments for it. Just saying it doesnt make it true. If anything he is one of the ppl who is promoting gaming the most.

Why is he a failure of those organisations? If you ask people to mention a gamer Fatality is the one they are most likely to mention every time.

He's not a failure of the organizations, he's merely a person who represents the failures in the decision making of major organizations.

My experience is even that they have a very positive impression of him, so your statement makes no sense unless you post some arguments for it. Just saying it doesnt make it true. If anything he is one of the ppl who is promoting gaming the most.

Promoting it how? By not playing games anymore? By not actually playing against top competition? By throwing a logo on a product that a company would have made anyway? He doesn't do anything but portray an image of gamers - one which we have been trying to get AWAY from for years. Look at him: no girlfriend around his arm, no education, no stable future, poor verbal skills, and speech issues. He's as much a victim of marketing as gaming is in general, but he's too stupid to see the long-term issues with what he's doing.

"no girlfriend around his arm, no education, no stable future, poor verbal skills, and speech issues"

I dont really think you have to be sorry for him. Are those things the ones u need to focus on to acknowledge success? Im guessing he is doing pretty well for himself so please lay off that. You have no point there.

You said he plays games with no competition? He played the games that were featured in big tournaments. He played it to become a pro gamer and make a living and he succeeded. Big time.
What was he to do to satisfy you? Play Quake 3 forever even tho there were no tournaments and no money? Thats just plain stupid. We can both agree that the game should have been featured as main deathmatch game by every organisation you mention but thats not his fault.

He has been playing for many years, making a name that ppl outside the gaming world can recognize, a name that is now being branded by big hardware manufactures. Give me one example of another person that exposes gaming like that.

I know this is ESR and its basicly the official club for haters of Fatality but it just reeks of jealoucy. People here would only have acknowledged him if he had stuck with Quake 3 to the bitter end like the rest of you, and im guessing its the same jealoucy that feeds the hate for Counter Strike in here. A game that has succeeded where Quake didnt. Thats just pathetic imo :>

I dont really think you have to be sorry for him. Are those things the ones u need to focus on to acknowledge success? Im guessing he is doing pretty well for himself so please lay off that. You have no point there.

I do have a point, you just don't understand. Language barrier? Fatal1ty is all about image, not about quality. As such, the image he gives off makes for a VERY poor public view.

You said he plays games with no competition? He played the games that were featured in big tournaments. He played it to become a pro gamer and make a living and he succeeded. Big time.

Past tense, prior to real competition.

What was he to do to satisfy you? Play Quake 3 forever even tho there were no tournaments and no money? Thats just plain stupid. We can both agree that the game should have been featured as main deathmatch game by every organisation you mention but thats not his fault.

There have been tournaments EVERY year, and he was even challenged by Zero4 without showing up. He talks about how much he loved Q3, as if the game didn't have tournaments, but it has. Even if it was one tournament a year, isn't that better than the current ZERO that he's been attending for the past... how many years?

He has been playing for many years, making a name that ppl outside the gaming world can recognize, a name that is now being branded by big hardware manufactures. Give me one example of another person that exposes gaming like that.

Lee Jaedong, and he does it without being a total douche.

I know this is ESR and its basicly the official club for haters of Fatality but it just reeks of jealoucy. People here would only have acknowledged him if he had stuck with Quake 3 to the bitter end like the rest of you, and im guessing its the same jealoucy that feeds the hate for Counter Strike in here. A game that has succeeded where Quake didnt. Thats just pathetic imo :>

You have no substance to your argument, and you don't even bother to respond to mine after asking for it. You've gone off on rants that have nothing to do with what I have been saying. You're the poor victim of American marketing, and you're still trapped in the fantasy world that you think is professional gaming. The fantasy is over - quake is dead, and it's not coming back.

People arent perfect. That you cant see past an insignificant detail like his speech impediment, which btw isnt the same as a speech barrier, tells me more of you as a person than his insufficiency to represent gaming.

If you want images of perfect people with perfect looks and so on, there are plenty of beautiful brainless people in shows like paradise hotel for you. That is very superficial as well.

I truely cannot see any valid points in what you are mentioning, of why he shouldnt do a proper role model for gaming.

You keep rambling about competition in Quake 3 when the fact is that there were no money to make a real living off in that game, though there were random tournaments from time to time. He swithced for the money.

Jaedong is well known in Korea. He is known internationally in the SC-community. He isnt known worldwide, outside of that, as Fatality has come to be.

What fantasy are you talking about? Where do I state anything about possibilities for a professional carrer in Quake, since you of some reason say im living in such a dream? :)

People arent perfect. That you cant see past an insignificant detail like his speech impediment, which btw isnt the same as a speech barrier, tells me more of you as a person than you. If you want images of perfect people with perfect looks and so on, there are plenty of beautiful brainless people in shows like paradise hotel for you. That is very superficial as well.

I offered plenty of real issues with him, but you single out the speech issue. Perhaps the speech issue is tied to his child-like verbal skills? Why not respond to any of the other valid issues with his image?

You keep rambling about competition in Quake 3 when the fact is that there were no money to make a real living off in that game, though there were random tournaments from time to time. He swithced for the money.

He isn't playing anything, so even playing in what few tournaments there are for Q3 is more than he is making now. You're making excuses.

Jaedong is well known in Korea. He is known internationally in the SC-community. He isnt known world wide as Fatality have become.

Fatal1ty isn't known world-wide, and he is only known in the communities that he has taken part in, and I'd say not even as much as they lead you to believe. 99.99999% of the world do not know who he is. Meanwhile, I don't know exactly how big Jaedong is right now (despite now appearing in a shoe commercial), but players like Boxer/nada have already massed fan clubs in the MILLIONS.

What fantasy are you talking about? Where do I state anything about possibilities for a professional carrer in Quake, since you of some reason say im living in such a dream? :)

You're saying that Fatal1ty has somehow "made it" as a professional gamer, despite the fact that every single person outside of Korea has completely failed as a gamer.

you try too hard.

Well i dont pretend not to try like that other guy :)
But your prolly right that its wasted breath.

You only mentioned his speech inpediment. Then you said he had poor quality without elaboration why you think that and then you just state that it makes for a poor public view. That is hardly anything but stating your general oppinion of him without explaing.

He isnt playing now and so what? He has become rich from gaming. That qualifies as making it as pro-gamer which makes your so called "fact" about everyone outside of Korea failing as progamer another invalid point.

If you are saying that he has to be currently active to be called a successful pro-gamer, then you are the one making the excuses, not me and I think you know it ;)

Jaedong has millions of fans located in Korea. Outside of Korea much much less in comparison. You throw some random fucked up 99.99999% into the discussion which you just pulled out of your ass.
Your arguments are getting closer and closer to "my dad can beat up your dad".

Especially considering how failed SC is outside of Korea, for gamers to win money from, it also fails bring names of top players to awereness of the public. Jaedong hasnt even been know long enough to become a profile for gaming in the same way even tho he is capable.

There is no way of setteling this without actual numbers which are non-exsistant. My belief is still that the name Fatality is recognized by more people in the world than Jaedong.

You only mentioned his speech inpediment. Then you said he had poor quality without elaboration why you think that and then you just state that it makes for a poor public view. That is hardly anything but stating your general oppinion of him without explaing.

I mentioned his anti-social habits, his lack of education, and his inability to speak properly (both speech, and articulating himself) in public situations. Let's not forget that the guy does not have the nuts when it actually comes to playing the games.

He isnt playing now and so what? He has become rich from gaming. That qualifies as making it as pro-gamer which makes your so called "fact" about everyone outside of Korea failing as progamer another invalid point.

You have said that Fatal1ty is promoting the community, so how is he doing it? I suppose the image you find attractive is that you make money to stop playing games? What kind of reverse world do you live in? He isn't rich, though I'm sure the rumors about him are enough to satisfy you!

If you are saying that he has to be currently active to be called a successful pro-gamer, then you are making the excuses and I think you know it ;)

Successful would be self-sustaining. No, he's riding the meal ticket for as long as he can. He knows that he doesn't have a chance in any real competition (hi Q4/poker), so he has to keep up the image as long as he can so he can be marketable.

Jaedong has millions of fans located in Korea. Outside of Korea much much less in comparison. You throw some random fucked up 99.99999% into the discussion which you just pulled out of your ass.
Your arguments are getting closer and closer to "my dad can beat up your dad".

Yeah, and Fatal1ty has... maybe a few hundred (if that) fans both inside and outside America. So?

Especially considering how failed SC is outside of Korea, for gamers to win money from, it also fails bring names of top players to awereness of the public. Jaedong hasnt even been know long enough to become a profile for gaming in the same way even tho he is capable.

Now you're trying to make this about the game instead of the players? Even still, SC is still popular, just not as popular as it is in Korea. I'm sure it'll be making a huge comeback with SC2, especially since DOTA will move over. Additionally, I listed Jaedong, Nada, and Boxer. I could easily extend that list to other very successful SC players, if you really want.

There is no way of setteling this without actual numbers which are non-exsistant. My belief is still that the name Fatality is recognized by more people in the world than Jaedong.

Your belief means 2 things: jack and shit. Jaedong alone OBVIOUSLY has a bigger fan base, but you again fail to recognize Boxer/Nada.

Your arguments just keep getting more and more lame. Your are basically saying that he should have been well educated, beautiful, well spoken, accept every single challenge, stick to one game, make enough money for himself not only to become sorta rich but 2-digit millionair, while still not promoting himself and pissing you off at the same time.

First you used 99.9999% to convince me. Now you say there are just a few hundred non-americans that actually think well of him. I think your capability of realistic reasoning has reached its limits now.

Furthermore you now want me to mention SC-stars like Bisu, Nal Ra, Savior, Mind, Flash, Stork, Kal and so on, for what? To let you know that I actually know anything about SC in Korea? What does this have to do with discussion?

You are grasping. Everything you say start sounding more and more like something you would actually read on this intellectually depraved forum. Since it started out as being an exception, that could encourage me to keep it up, i now no longer see any reason to continue discussing with you.

Your arguments just keep getting more and more lame. Your are basically saying that he should have been a well educated, beautiful, well spoken, accept every single challenge, stick to one game, make enough money for himself not only to become sorta rich but 2-digit millionair, while still not promoting himself and pissing you off at the same time.

Millionaire? =D He's lucky if he's made $300,000 since he started his career. I'm saying that he is neither a true sportsman, nor is he a good image for the gaming community. He doesn't have to be perfect, but he should at least look somewhat respectable as a role model. Growing up to play professional sports is considered a nice goal with nice rewards - growing up to be fatal1ty means that you'll still be working at McDonalds when you're 50 until you die alone with nothing to show for yourself.

First you used 99.9999% to convince me. Now you say there are just a few hundred non-americans that actually think well of him. I think your capability of realistic reasoning has reached its limits now.

Few hundred total, not just the people outside America.

Furthermore you now want me to mention SC-stars like Bisu, Nal Ra, Savior, Mind, Flash, Stork, Kal and so on, for what? To let you know that I actually know anything about SC in Korea? What does this have to do with discussion.

You originally asked me for another gamer with any sort of widespread influence - I have offered you multiple, and I've only touched the surface. It was you who tried to attack the credibility of these players. Either pay attention to what you yourself have been writing, or gtfo of the thread.

You are grasping. Everything you say start sounding more and more like something you would actually read on this intellectually depraved forum. Since it started out as being an exception that could encourage me to keep it up i dont see any further reason as to why to continue discussing with you.

Don't continue, you're far too influenced by good ol' American marketing. People like YOU are the reason that organizations like CPL/WSVG/ESWC are making bad decisions and ruining it for us all. Go watch some commercials and buy some useless crap - that's all you're good for.

I think you won this debate.

I'll never understand how people think Fatal1ty promoting himself and making himself money has any positive affects on "our" community. The guy barely plays in any relevant tournaments and he just promotes his new hardware at trade shows all year.

He's not promoting gaming in the slightest he's promoting computer hardware and he's not a professional gamer, he's a professional promoter.

BUT HES DOING IT FOR THE COMMUNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THE COMMUNITYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

The community has gone insanely down hill since q3 arrived though, I wish there never were a q3 tournament for monies.

I don't want to get involved in your discussion, but regarding this part: "People like YOU are the reason that organizations like CPL/WSVG/ESWC are making bad decisions and ruining it for us all"... care to elaborate? :p

The only reason people like Fatal1ty, and companies like CPL/ESWC/WSVG/etc can stay around is if people promote them.

I know that it sounds counter-productive to boycott things like ESWC, and many people still think that CPL helped the community, but the only thing you do when you promote these ventures is to set everyone up for a fall later. Gaming doesn't need a big all-at-once boom, it needs community progression over many years. Right now, we have a community for tournaments, not tournaments for the community. It's doomed to fail.

The ESWC was an amazing event... I don't see how promoting them can hurt the community in any way?

While ESWC was the best of the bunch, they still had plenty of issues.

so you're saying the community is better off without the eswc? can't agree with that... I mean the CGS it's a different story, it looked like a bad mtv show, but the eswc legitimately supported gaming.

Yeah, because a female-only CS tournament helps gaming.

The eswc can hardly be reduced to the female cs event :p

One of many issues.

What are the other issues? I honestly think that the ESWC was one of the best things to ever happen to professional gaming.

For quake, I'd say issues like the use of PB, map choices, coverage is still terrible, bad monitors, and prizes are insufficient. Outside that, they have very poor choice in games, and support gender-restricted gaming - a concept that is retarded beyond belief. It took them forever to even get DOTA, and they never featured Starcraft.

Also, it's in France.

Come on, they had the best games except Starcraft, did their best for Quake III, and DOTA was hardly as popular when they started (I don't even know if it was out yet). The coverage was usually amazing on most websites since the press rooms were great, you can't blame them if esreality doesn't have the same kind of coverage as gotfrag etc (which focuses less on Q3 obviously). It wasn't even in France last year but in the US, where a lot less spectators came than in France. I think you're also neglecting the impact of the national qualifiers. Overall the ESWC was amazing for pro-gaming, you can't possibly expect them to do everything exactly the way YOU want it.

Come on, they had the best games

They had Q3, CS, and WC3. These are not the best games.

and DOTA was hardly as popular when they started (I don't even know if it was out yet).

Took them years to adopt it, despite wild popularity.

The coverage was usually amazing on most websites since the press rooms were great, you can't blame them if esreality doesn't have the same kind of coverage as gotfrag etc (which focuses less on Q3 obviously).

I don't blame 3rd party coverage, I blame ESWC's lack of coverage.

It wasn't even in France last year but in the US, where a lot less spectators came than in France. I think you're also neglecting the impact of the national qualifiers. Overall the ESWC was amazing for pro-gaming, you can't possibly expect them to do everything exactly the way YOU want it.

I didn't say that the US is any better. ESWC failed pro-gaming, and likely killed both CS and Q3. Great job, I'm sure.

Where exactly has the ESWC taken the scene/community?

Nowhere, it's barely evolved since 2003 at all, sure it got a bit bigger but even then it was hardly setting the world on fire (Hence the financial difficulty).

The ESWC had a major impact in a lot of countries that hosted national qualifiers and where local gamers would otherwise not have had an opportunity to compete against the best. The same goes for the WCG. This is concerning the games for which such qualifiers were hosted, of course. You have many small countries were the one basic goal of the "serious" players was to qualify for the ESWC. These national events were sometimes broadcasted in the media and thus helped show how professional gaming can get. I seriously don't understand how one can possibly say the ESWC didn't help gaming or even hindered its development. Vedic has given me no arguments, just personal opinion. How exactly would you have done things different? You can't possibly expect from an organization to suddenly change the opinion of every person in the world about gaming can you?

Personal opinion is leaving out many popular and top tier games? Personal opinion is the fact that they went under and left a devastating effect on both Q3 and CS? Personal opinion is the fact that gender segregation is counter-productive to growth? Personal opinion is the complete lack of coverage by ESWC?

No, you just don't want to believe that ESWC was just as much an issue as the organizations in the past.

Which games? DOTA is debatable, they ended up having it anyway, and just because they didn't have some games doesn't mean it didn't have a good effect on the games they did have.
Yes, it's your opinion that the ESWC had overall a negative effect on Q3 and CS. I think it had a very positive effect on both. It was basically the only Q3 event with quakecon for quite some time, and provided a lot of entertainment to players and spectators alike. The overall impact on CS was extremely positive, I can't speak for them but I don't think any CS player will say the ESWC was a bad thing to happen to the scene.
I agreed on gender segregating.
Yes it is your opinion, I think the coverage was great. Information was made available for everyone to follow, and the various medias were given free access, including to very good press rooms, press conferences etc.

Which games? DOTA is debatable, they ended up having it anyway, and just because they didn't have some games doesn't mean it didn't have a good effect on the games they did have.

SC? WoW? ET? UT3? CoD? Various fighting games? Guild Wars? Natural Selection? The list goes on of games that should have/could have been in, and many games are far more deserving of spots than Q3/CS female.

Yes, it's your opinion that the ESWC had overall a negative effect on Q3 and CS.

Obviously you haven't seen how many people have quit CS since ESWC tanked. Harder to tell in Q3 since the community is so small and detached.

It was basically the only Q3 event with quakecon for quite some time, and provided a lot of entertainment to players and spectators alike. The overall impact on CS was extremely positive, I can't speak for them but I don't think any CS player will say the ESWC was a bad thing to happen to the scene.

WAS - key word. You're looking at short-term benefits that, in the end, ruined it for everybody. Your issue, like most young gamers, is that you can't see past the step you are on, when you have a hundreds of steps ahead of you that you need to plan for.

Yes it is your opinion, I think the coverage was great. Information was made available for everyone to follow, and the various medias were given free access, including to very good press rooms, press conferences etc.

This was all third party, completely inaccessible from any of ESWC's actual services, and had FAR too many issues to be considered even remotely professional. Lag, complete lack of viewpoints, missing demos, etc... Media attention included.. gotfrag? ESR? Oh man, be still my heart.

Most of these aren't arguments but assumptions from your part. For example, you assume a lot of CS gamers have quit, but I'd like to see some stats for that. Also, you don't know how many would have quit a long time ago if the ESWC wasn't there in the first place. And again, I don't see how not having every popular game on the planet prevented the ESWC from helping the games they did feature. It's not thinking short-term to say the ESWC helped gaming.

You obviously don't follow the CS scene, so you should probably look into it. As for people who would have quit without ESWC, those are EXACTLY the kind of people we need to get rid of. As I have said, it's a community for tournaments, not tournaments for the community. Growth need to come from the players, not some marketing division.

You're another victim of marketing.

I'll admit that I don't, but I checked the stats on steampowered.com and I can't see any difference. So do you have any names/stats to support your claims?
What I meant was that when you said "you haven't seen how many people have quit CS since ESWC tanked", even IF it's true for some people well the ESWC isn't the reason they're quitting but the reason they're quitting now instead of a long time ago. So this is not damage done by the ESWC to CS.
Anyway, I agree with you when you say "growth need to come from the players, not some marketing division". To me, the CGS was pure marketing. But we differ in our views of the ESWC. To me, it was run by people thinking as players, and for the players. It did have some flaws though, but listen to Matthieu Dallon's interviews and seriously, the man loves gaming and wants to help it grow.

I'll admit that I don't, but I checked the stats on steampowered.com and I can't see any difference. So do you have any names/stats to support your claims?

You don't see any difference because it doesn't list any. Do some forum work.

What I meant was that when you said "you haven't seen how many people have quit CS since ESWC tanked", even IF it's true for some people well the ESWC isn't the reason they're quitting but the reason they're quitting now instead of a long time ago. So this is not damage done by the ESWC to CS.

It's damage done the same way CGS led gamers to believe that they had a future in professional gaming, when in fact, no sustainable model for professional gaming can come about with games other than SC until a proper community can form around them.

Anyway, I agree with you when you say "growth need to come from the players, not some marketing division". To me, the CGS was pure marketing. But we differ in our views of the ESWC. To me, it was run by people thinking as players, and for the players. It did have some flaws though, but listen to Matthieu Dallon's interviews and seriously, the man loves gaming and wants to help it grow.

I don't doubt the intentions, I merely think they didn't know what they were doing. They didn't spend enough time considering the long-term goals, and they were as reliant on sponsors as gamers are. We need to build the community from the ground up to a point where we have the sponsors wanting OUR participation, not the other way around.

I can't see anything major anywhere except some CGS source players actually coming back to 1.6. What exactly are you basing your claims on?
I don't think it's done any damage, it provided opportunities and entertainment for quite some time, and helped improve the image of gaming. Just because it has come to an end doesn't mean its previous achievements don't remain. You're only seeing, and exagerating, the bad side of the coin.

My "claims" come from the community, and from actual players who are finding it harder and harder to get people to play with.

There is only a bad side to this. The previous "achievements" are a testament to the fact that short-term solutions without long term preparations don't work. I'm sure that, in your eyes, you think the CPL helped gaming, despite alienating sponsors, stealing from players, killing careers, and hurting communities that relied on game choice support. ESWC is only not guilty of stealing from players, at least as far as I am aware of.

ESWC has only solidified the mainstream mentality that professional gaming is a joke, just like every other organization that has fallen before it.

I don't think it has solidified this idea, for two reasons:

1) There is no way that the average guy who has no interest in gaming has heard of the ESWC going bankrupt. However, he might, in the past, have heard of the ESWC itself and what it meant in terms of prizes, number of participating countries, or simply dedication from players. This has not been erased.
2) Just because the ESWC went bankrupt doesn't mean sponsors consider there was no return. In the current economic situation, they simply thought money would best be put elsewhere. For example, I think it was the "commune de paris" that helped fund the ESWC for some time with the venue etc, well I'm pretty sure I read they were prepared to do it again this year, because unlike other economic actors their priorities didn't change radically. If the other sponsors had been given the choice in "normal" conditions, they'd probably have continued sponsoring the ESWC. Now I'm not saying that this wasn't a shaky foundation, but simply that the ESWC going bankrupt has in no way changed the fact that the sponsors know it can be good for them to invest in gaming when the time is right.

Did you really need to number your reasons for 2 things?

1) There is no way that the average guy who has no interest in gaming has heard of the ESWC going bankrupt. However, he might, in the past, have heard of the ESWC itself and what it meant in terms of prizes, number of participating countries, or simply dedication from players. This has not been erased.

CS suffers the same "community around tournaments" that Q3 has.

2) Just because the ESWC went bankrupt doesn't mean sponsors consider there was no return. In the current economic situation, they simply thought money would best be put elsewhere.

It was the sponsors saying "NO THANKS!" that killed ESWC.

For example, I think it was the "commune de paris" that helped fund the ESWC for some time with the venue etc, well I'm pretty sure I read they were prepared to do it again this year, because unlike other economic actors their priorities didn't change radically. If the other sponsors had been given the choice in "normal" conditions, they'd probably have continued sponsoring the ESWC.

WCG and Quakecon are still running with sponsors, so why do you blame the economy for this failure? Hell, they're far less serious than ESWC, and have terrible games.

Now I'm not saying that this wasn't a shaky foundation, but simply that the ESWC going bankrupt has in no way changed the fact that the sponsors know it can be good for them to invest in gaming when the time is right.

CPL did the most harm in this situation, but ESWC's (quite possibly the biggest organization) failure to rally support will make any future sponsor think twice about supporting any sort of venture outside of casual mainstream gaming.

(this is still me, I changed username a couple of days ago but it only got validated)

Did you really need to number your reasons for 2 things?

Did you really need to write this? Why resort to personal attacks?

CS suffers the same "community around tournaments" that Q3 has.

How is this relevant in any way to the point I made?

It was the sponsors saying "NO THANKS!" that killed ESWC.

Where am I denying this? I said the exact same thing.

WCG and Quakecon are still running with sponsors, so why do you blame the economy for this failure? Hell, they're far less serious than ESWC, and have terrible games.

The economy + the ESWC's decision to host an event in the US, looking at how things turned out. This is not related to the original model of the ESWC (see how they were doing before) and does not mean in any way that they had a negative impact on gaming (see my previous post + the next point).

ESWC's (quite possibly the biggest organization) failure to rally support will make any future sponsor think twice about supporting any sort of venture outside of casual mainstream gaming.

You don't have anything to back this claim up. This is 100% assumption.

ps: you still haven't backed up your cs claim either btw. Looking at the stats the same number of people are playing, the same amount of time, the same cs pro's are still there... actually, more cs pro's are playing in the US since the demise of the cgs.

Did you really need to write this? Why resort to personal attacks?

It's bad enough having to deal with such horrible arguments, I really don't want to also deal with stupid formatting.

How is this relevant in any way to the point I made?

Go back and reread the entire thread. Either pay attention to all the details, or don't waste my time with stupid questions.

Where am I denying this? I said the exact same thing.

ESWC died due to sponsors not supporting it. If they thought they were getting a valid return on their investment, wouldn't they still be sponsoring it?

The economy + the ESWC's decision to host an event in the US, looking at how things turned out. This is not related to the original model of the ESWC (see how they were doing before) and does not mean in any way that they had a negative impact on gaming (see my previous post + the next point).

You're making up excuses - WCG and Quakecon are still around while making even bigger mistakes. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they'll cave in simply because of the failures that they have been promoting as well, but right now, sponsors feel that they bring in an actual return. ESWC was never a big tournament, as far as even remotely sustainable standards go, it was just big compared to nothing.

You don't have anything to back this claim up. This is 100% assumption.

Oh? Why are there less and less tournaments being hosted for serious games, and yet more and more support for casual crap like Guitar Hero and Halo 3? In fact, the speed at which competitive games are dying is almost directly proportional to how fast the casual scene is growing. Either you haven't been paying attention to the gaming scene at ALL for the past 7 years, or you're purposely just trying to ignore it. Do you have something to lose by ESWC's reputation being hurt?

ps: you still haven't backed up your cs claim either btw. Looking at the stats the same number of people are playing, the same amount of time, the same cs pro's are still there... actually, more cs pro's are playing in the US since the demise of the cgs.

You don't follow the numbers or the community, so you wouldn't know. There is no real specific data anywhere that lists this over time, but don't let that stop you from making things up.

It's bad enough having to deal with such horrible arguments, I really don't want to also deal with stupid formatting.

Yes I'm sure separating the two arguments made it harder for you to address them. Great logic there.

Go back and reread the entire thread. Either pay attention to all the details, or don't waste my time with stupid questions.

My point:
"There is no way that the average guy who has no interest in gaming has heard of the ESWC going bankrupt. However, he might, in the past, have heard of the ESWC itself and what it meant in terms of prizes, number of participating countries, or simply dedication from players. This has not been erased."
Your answer:
"CS suffers the same "community around tournaments" that Q3 has."
In no way did you address my point. Maybe more formatting was needed after all.

"ESWC died due to sponsors not supporting it. If they thought they were getting a valid return on their investment, wouldn't they still be sponsoring it?"

No. Not necessarily. If their company is in rather serious need of money elsewhere, maybe they won't have the time to wait for the return of investing in the ESWC. Say I put 1000€ in the bank to get interests, then some time later I have to use most of that to buy a particular good I need for my business. This doesn't mean I'm not going to put some money back in the bank even later when my need for money to spend directly will have decreased.

Oh? Why are there less and less tournaments being hosted for serious games, and yet more and more support for casual crap like Guitar Hero and Halo 3?

Because these games are played by many people. This has nothing to do with the ESWC.

In fact, the speed at which competitive games are dying is almost directly proportional to how fast the casual scene is growing. Either you haven't been paying attention to the gaming scene at ALL for the past 7 years, or you're purposely just trying to ignore it.

Again, this is not related to the ESWC and your initial claim that the ESWC is responsible. This is linked to less people playing what you call competitive games, and more people playing casual games.

Do you have something to lose by ESWC's reputation being hurt?

Looks like I'm going to have to get used to personal attacks. Petty :)

You don't follow the numbers or the community, so you wouldn't know. There is no real specific data anywhere that lists this over time, but don't let that stop you from making things up.

This is pretty ironic considering you're the one making the claim. I did follow the numbers, they're publicly available on the steam website, and you admitted yourself that they showed no difference. I don't actively follow the CS scene but is what I said about the pros from the CGS coming back wrong? Then who exactly is quitting because of the ESWC? Give me some names and figures instead of blabbering about me "not knowing".

zzz, huge post typed out and the team liquid cake thread crashes firefox

not typing it again, so I'll just go with "no."

don't give up man, this is not the vedic I know

Nothing is more annoying than typing out a small essay only to have it erased. It's been happening a few times, so a few of the replies I've posted lately have gone from what would have been long to just a one-liner.

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/7671

I'm not that worried about it, I just need to figure out what is going wrong lately. Works fine on my desktop, but my netbook seems to crash almost every time I view the TL cake page.

lol
btw GG for both of em
:D

OT: Steampowered.com stats are WRONG. Maybe not the CS ones, but there's no way so much peaple play HL2DM:
2,067 2,283 Half-Life 2: Deathmatch.

ESWC was the community, of course it's not better off without it.

The "eSports" scene was just a community of organisations that hosted events for a rather small group of people to attend.

Ehh Vedic - what have you done for the community? Fat was good - he's maybe not the best right now but damn good and could beat the best on lan. Ask any top player and they would definitely agree. Look at all the top players around now - many of those were active in fat's day and most of them lost to him more times than not - this includes guys like czm, zero4 etc along with other top lads that have since retired like lakerman, doomer, etc. Good guys, good as anyone. He's a reasonable man trying to make a living - get off his case!

He's following the career path for top pro players laid out by Thresh who won a few tourneys and then went on to set up businesses based on his name.

I am sure he's putting in big hours as a fakenick in QL right now - who knows how good he is? If in practice he realises that he's probably not good enough to seriously challenge for a tourney then he'd be stupid to enter as it would be damaging his name which is his meal-ticket. Good luck to him. Don't have an account so posting anon but I'm from Ireland.

Ehh Vedic - what have you done for the community?

What does what I have done have anything to do with what HE has done? For your information, I've paid out of pocket to make sure that the LAN centers I've worked for were all equipped with Q3, I've paid out prize money directly from my pocket to tournaments that I've hosted at said LAN centers, I've personally attempted to convert and train dozens of players, and I've converted and uploaded gigs of Q3 movies to Google video.

Fat was good - he's maybe not the best right now but damn good and could beat the best on lan. Ask any top player and they would definitely agree. Look at all the top players around now - many of those were active in fat's day and most of them lost to him more times than not - this includes guys like czm, zero4 etc along with other top lads that have since retired like lakerman, doomer, etc. Good guys, good as anyone. He's a reasonable man trying to make a living - get off his case!

You list players that weren't in their prime, or who just plain weren't good.

He's following the career path for top pro players laid out by Thresh who won a few tourneys and then went on to set up businesses based on his name.

Thresh made an actual FREE service that aimed to bring all gamers together, but you still can't even remotely compare his accomplishments with current-day standards - same as Fat. Fat didn't make motherboards/video cards/mice - companies that used him as a marketing tool did. The products would have been released either way, just with a different logo. Hell, fat doesn't even use them. Much like a Mac, you're paying for a brand, not functionality.

I am sure he's putting in big hours as a fakenick in QL right now - who knows how good he is? If in practice he realises that he's probably not good enough to seriously challenge for a tourney then he'd be stupid to enter as it would be damaging his name which is his meal-ticket. Good luck to him. Don't have an account so posting anon but I'm from Ireland.

Don't have an account, yet you're sporting a proxy IP, and you somehow thought that I would care if you are from Ireland? Fat had his chance to play Q3 when Zero4 challenged him, and he backed down. If he was afraid of zero4, he's scared shitless of real players.

lol - I was in work so knew the flag would be us as per proxy - only said I was from europe so you wouldn't think I was another american rowing in behind a countryman.

You are kidding yourself if you think those players weren't good - and I could name loads more like lexer, polas1ty, etc that fat put it up to too. There's no point comparing his demos with ones that have come out 8 years on. Whatever you say about him he won tourneys, lots of them, back when there were 20x as many people playing Q3 - and also in several other games he was top-5 (pk, u2k3, q4). Saying he was no good makes you look stupid and I don't think you are. It wasn't until cooler came along that there was someone obviously better.

Anyhow the point is that for him to keep playing the same old (if great) game and take the risk of ruining his name would have been really stupid. Not saying I wouldn't like to have seen it, but from his viewpoint it would have been dumb in the extreme - look at all the money he wouldn't have earned if he did that.

lol - I was in work so knew the flag would be us as per proxy - only said I was from europe so you wouldn't think I was another american rowing in behind a countryman.

I don't care what country you come from if you can back your shit up.

You are kidding yourself if you think those players weren't good - and I could name loads more like lexer, polas1ty, etc that fat put it up to too. There's no point comparing his demos with ones that have come out 8 years on.

They weren't, the competition was just low.

Whatever you say about him he won tourneys, lots of them, back when there were 20x as many people playing Q3 - and also in several other games he was top-5 (pk, u2k3, q4). Saying he was no good makes you look stupid and I don't think you are. It wasn't until cooler came along that there was someone obviously better.

PK had Vo0, a mid-skill player, UT2k3 is UT2k3, and the only person trying in Q4 was Toxic - also mid-skill.

Anyhow the point is that for him to keep playing the same old (if great) game and take the risk of ruining his name would have been really stupid. Not saying I wouldn't like to have seen it, but from his viewpoint it would have been dumb in the extreme - look at all the money he wouldn't have earned if he did that.

So if he can't roll with real competition, and he hasn't done anything else to promote gaming, what exactly is it that you think he is doing that is worth praise? If he just wanted money, he could go work at Wal-mart or, god forbid, get an education and a real job. Instead, he's opted for the lazy route with short term benefits that will leave him in a terrible position when he gets tossed out.

honesty, look at this site. Take a deep hard look at yourself too. Then you say the image of fatal1ty is bad? LOL Some people have blinders on themselves.

Just from observation over the years, gamers (from here and the games themsevles) are just huge whiners, wankers, and people with complex problems of all sorts. It may be too late for some of you to do some self-reflection. Who knows.. Just acting like trolls just might be an addiction now. I wouldn't be surprised if it started to carry over into other aspects of your lives in more subtle ways.

I don't troll, despite popular belief. In fact, nobody once called me a troll until I jokingly called myself a troll a few months ago. Perhaps you merely think I'm a troll because I'm the target of trolls, and I'll happily bore them out of any thread that they want to fight me in.

If you were to believe the movies, racing is nothing more than a bunch of ricer fags who partake in drugs and hookers. Fatal1ty represents the bad side of the scene, but hardware companies and tournaments feature him because they look at short-term profit with no care for how things will be down the line. As long as it's not their problem when it happens, they don't care.

Take care not to insult the same scene that you yourself a a part of.

You are so deeply entrenched you can't even see yourself from an outside perspective. I see you're just allowing yourself to be human with no introspection. Just like anyone else....


IM ALWAYS RIGHT. YAY IM HUMAN. WOOOOOOOO.

Existentialism motherfucker!

yeah like when the spaniards posted in the sombra thread, or the germans whenever a k1llsen demo comes up, why would nationality matter..

I'm curious about something.

I'm guessing we're agreeing that the only really successful form of pro gaming that excists is the Korean SC scene. the quake dream was short lived and many of us should have accepted that quake becoming the next SC or even CS was not going to happen years ago. this beeing esr there are still people who are passionate about quake, rightfully so as it is the best form of competetive death match out there (which is not saying it's perfect) and it actually has at least a portion of it's community who knows competetive gaming and what's required to make it work.

I'm also guessing alot of your 'trolling' of esr has to do with the things I wrote above.

anyways. what I want to know is why do you think that SC in Korea became a success? it's a very accomplished game in terms of beeing competetive and it's somewhat easy to follow. the same could be said for quake, at least in the fps genre. although quake never even came close to what competetive SC has ever been. where does the differences lie? what did this community do wrong? I want to know what you think since you seem to have very set ideas about esports/pro-gaming.

I can't be sure, but one thing that is likely a large factor is that Blizzard has always tried to release games that work on last-year hardware. Starcraft and Quake 3 came out only 1 year apart, yet look at the difference in requirements:

Q3: 3D graphics accelerator with full OpenGL support, Pentium II 233 MHz or AMD 350 MHz K6-2 processor or Athlon processor, 64 MB RAM, 8 MB video card, 500 MB of free hard drive space, 100% DirectX 3.0 or higher compatible sound card,

SC: 90 MHz processor 16 MB RAM 640x480 8-bit display

The big issue with getting competitive in Q3 was reaching the 125fps mark. Even today, that mark can be hard to hit on general systems (especially ones running vista) or laptops. I know that it isn't an issue on CPMA, but without the guidance of an experienced player, how many people make it that far? My netbook probably can't even run Q3, as it runs Guild Wars at about 0.5 FPS, yet I can run Starcraft/Diablo 2 perfectly.

That's just a result of the genre of the game. 2D isometric games (StarCraft, Diablo) will no doubt have far lower requirements than any 3D accelerated game, especially 10 years ago. So, while this may be a genuine reason for StarCraft's success, it's unreasonable to expect the same from the Quake series, and it has nothing to do with the game's community. Sorry for stating the obvious.

WoW and Diablo are both designed around low requirements, and both have exponentially more players than Quake. Getting your game wide-spread is very important in creating community. Tournaments should come FROM the community, not having a community come about because of a tournament, and Blizzard have provided that platform quite well.

Q3 and QL still have trouble on some systems today, and can be damn near unplayable on Vista. Let's not even forget how LOL Doom 3 or Quake 4 were.

HL/CS and the Source engine is pretty good too.

agreed

Because the "pro-gaming" scene consists of jealous, whiny bitches who need a good dose of ass-rapin'.

Zero4 > fat

dongj1n > ZeRo4

"this one time in speech camp ..."

hmmm, this vid is broken ;/

That Fusion IO technology is really impressive.

What's with this interviewer? after he asks a question he appears to have absolutely no interest in receiving an answer. If you want your audience to care, you should at least look like you do.

" fat summer camp" , somehow I dont think ppl will be losing weight there :) sounds like something for Liam.

Yeah i really have no idea why they didnt just call it "Fat Camp". I would have if I was him :P

this interview was actually good. not the same old shit questions as always, the guy actually managed to ask him some new and kinda interesting things.

Wow the interviewer seems so interested

There was this one time at fatal1ty camp ...

where we filmed these home videos......if you saw them you would die from laughter.

I don't know about his other products but the Fat Pad I bought 3 years ago is awesome.

his headset is quite good too..

why are there always video interviews?
text interviews are better, I just can skip all the redundant stuf and move immediately to the stuff that matters, but in these video interviews you have to listen to every bullshit.

+ you cant really watch them at work ;F

zzz

The interview is pretty interesting, but I was constantly distracted by the priceless look on the interviewer's face - he either bounced up or down, or glanced at the camera for no reason at all.

or glanced at the camera for no reason at all.

As though he'd just come out of a heavy drug trip and was wondering why a camera was pointed at him, there was a mic in his hand which only he used and some guy with a heavy Southern drawl was babbling about gaming camps.

Fatal1ty Summer +Back

I like fatality, but only when he is playing at tournaments.
Wonder if ill lever like him again ;(

what's that keyboard/mousepad setup thing that he has in the background (to the right), is it a new product?

I actually use something similar (made-at-home) to keep my mousepad/keyboard in the same position no matter where I play. OCD much? yep. but it works.

behind every successful person is a pack of haters.

stop whining about fatalitys skill he is or atleast was one of the very best for a long time
u shouldnt doubt that he couldnt do a comeback in ql and be one of the best if he would put the hours in it

besides if any other pro player had the chance and smarts to go the fatal1ty road they would all jump on it