nice, gl to all
can i somewhere see who signed up so far?

http://www.fragster.de/kurzmeldung/6503/updat.../comments/

when was that lastly updated?

http://www.team-dignitas.org/index.php?id=8535

provisional player list up now

We will put up a list later

European tournament I suppose?

correct, they should state that somewhere though anyway

WOW N1 PRIZE, WILL I HAVE PING 2 ALL OVER THE WORLD WITH IT?!!!?!!!?!?!?!?!?!!?

a network card for 200 dollars.
how stupid are we gamers.

Good point. That's what increasingly pisses me off especially with 3D game trends these recent years, they basically acting as enabler for monstrous hardware sales. You pay $30 for a new game and then several hundreds for the hardware upgrade to get it going.

And all set and done, you're left with a rig which is *seriously* overpowered in all regards but your occasional gaming session. On top of that, all that cpu and fx muscle draws electric power in abundance, even when you're just browsing, chatting or reading mail. Kind of a no no in times where we're supposed to not only think but act "green".

Personally, I'm through with this nonsense. The next generation games either run on the rig I got - and smooth - or I'll just skip that shit.

I can't wait for the next new release for Super Nintendo, either.

QuakeWorld ftw.

I like quakeworld. I like playing it on my current gen pc, too. I don't know that you'd be as big a fan of Quakeworld if you were playing it on a dial-up modem (hardware), ball mouse (hardware), and getting 70fps max (hardware) though. That's the hardware you'd be using if you had that same frame of mind when Quakeworld came out.

Thought so, considering your avatar.

Regarding the hardware, true. QW is sure considerably more fun to play on a recent rig. What I'm saying though is that the "advances" 3D games made during recent years aren't worth the money anymore you have to shell out to enjoy them (and the waste you produce, in terms of acting "green").

Most of them are just 3D shit anyway, where from one generation to the next you get a gazillion polygons instead of just a zillion. Lighting and shadows. Wow, great. But you know what? From my pov, the actual artistic design gets even worse. And the gameplay doesn't improve much either.

Gameplay wise, I'd say that QW is already fairly complete, or could easily be polished to have better weapon balance and shit. And artistically, for me Q2 was the pinnacle. Beautiful colors, maps, models and sound design.

So really, what does it matter if there's dynamic shadows or whatever. In fact, as the visuals become more "realistic" the actual fun aspect of the games seems to diminish. That's at least how I feel.

wtfs
im a huge q2 fanboy, but calling it the pinnacle in artistic design with beautiful colors? - crazy talk.

It was the dullest looking game ever, most maps were almost entirely just shades of brown and grey.

Sigh. While somewhat true, it completely misses the point of pushing the envelope.

On the topic of acting green, if your electricity isn't gotten from hydro/geothermal/nuclear, YOUR COUNTRY IS DOING IT WRONG AND BITCH TO THEM ABOUT IT NOT YOUR COMPUTER FOR FUCKS SAKE. Thanks.

nuclear????????? lol!


also what

DISREGARD THAT I SUCK COCKS.

Also, what didn't you understand?

i c

yeah, thats why i think it's only worth it to play current gen games on console. One xbox for the price of a new video card stays current for a few years, and I stick to pc for online multiplayer :)

actually it's much more then 200 =\

Ok moses

they put a hardware which they can't sell, into tournament price..
nice!

what is the difference with a 15 euros network card and a 225 euros network card ?

this:

I knew it!

The £225 one is more expensive.

that some stupid idiots will pay that much on e-bay! \:D/

Hardware-accelerated voice chat is fully offloaded from the CPU, processed on Killer Xeno’s dedicated audio chip and accelerated through Xeno’s NPU. Killer Xeno™ is bundled with TeamSpeak 2, the #1 Voice Chat program for online gaming. Killer Xeno™ also supports Mumble, a free and open-source, cross-platform voice application.

Smoother Gameplay
Offloads all network processing to the NPU, freeing up vital CPU resources to boost average frame-rates and smooth gameplay.

Game Networking Acceleration
Bypasses the Windows® Network Stack to transfer packets directly to/from the game. This speeds-up game execution to improve game responsiveness and increase your framerate

Bigfoot Networks™ Hardware Bandwidth Control - keep your network traffic away from your game by prioritizing your game above everything else. This way, you can download that new demo while leading a raid - all with no lag.

Bigfoot Networks™ Hardware Firewall - high-performance, hardware-based security that keeps intruders out and lets you live worry-free in the DMZ.

Bigfoot Networks™ FTP, Telnet and BitTorrent - Low-level, power-user tools for file transfer, communication with the NPU or fully-offloaded, no-lag BitTorrent file transfers

Plug-&-Play compatibility with all online games
Works with all online games for improved performance without game modifications

128MB DDR2 RAM - onboard RAM dedicated to Killer Xeno's NPU for better network performance.

http://www.bigfootnetworks.com/how-it-works/

Do they even know, that this is q3 tournament, which was released 10 years ago?
And the most popular multiplayer game is counter-strike, which was released even earlier?
Why the fuck would i need a network card with such functions?!!?!?

Well, as far as I'm aware it can reduce network latency, Sujoy did a review of one here if I recall correctly.

Sorry, but the latency stuff is kind of a laugh.

Because, if they bypass the windows network stack - on your workstation - as they write, how much is there to be gained? To ping ESR, it costs me about 60ms round trip time, but to ping my router here in my LAN, it takes a mere 0.5ms. Repeat: 0.5ms. So all they could gain would be an improvement on those 0.5, because the very most ping time is spent on all those hops on the internet. So you might gain another 0.1ms or something. Wow.

Then, the other function their driver/card combination could do is prioritizing traffic. In other words do some, possibly hardware supported, traffic shaping. Well, that's all very nice if you do other heavy network stuff while gaming, like downloading your favorite tv shows. And even then it's not sure how good their stuff would perform. But that function, traffic shaping, can be the only reason why you would want that card.

and I think you can get traffic shaping done for less than 225€ too :)

Well, I would consider this package an option if they were highlighting packet prioritizing in particular and especially say that it'd be supported in hardware. Although any benefit could easily be nullified if you were to play in the internet from a LAN where other PCs might cause some traffic too. Because then the router buffer, once it fills up, would eat all your workstation gains up, and more.

But, and this is really a giveaway, what they're advertising on top of their list there is all fake. I mean offloading video processing to a GPU makes sense, as people realized some 15 years ago. But offloading network traffic processing? HA HA HA.

For a short calculation, if you run a 2GHz CPU with 1KHz tick kernel, a single 1ms context switch gives you 2000 CPU instructions to deal with network buffers and other stuff. That's more than ample. Man, may router runs a 256MHz Geode processor and even when downloading at full 3Mbit speed the CPU usage is (virtually) zero. Ok, there maybe some, but you'd have to look at teetsy tiny cycle counters to see that.

Then, 128MB onboard RAM. For what? Network buffers? HA HA HA. Let's say your upstream is 400kbit, i.e. 50 kilobyte per second. That's what you would need to buffer one second of upstream if you wanted to buffer, 50 kilobyte RAM. Which you don't. You just want to pump out the shit as fast as possible. Well maybe buffer a little, namely the low prio traffic. But 1MB would be more than ample for that.

Remember how I said above how they're selling shit nobody needs? Well this overpowered card is a prime example. And you know what they're playing at here, namely the question any gamer asks himself: why do I suck? Could it be this card, which my opponent possibly has, is the reason? Is it that mouse pad, this CPU or that video card? HA HA HA is what they might well think while pocketing your cash.

Like I said, I recall Sujoy doing a review of one and it did reduce his ms by a bit if I remember correctly.

It'd be worth like £15 max though.

Yeah. I did a little research in the meantime and can tell you how this works pretty much exactly. And what the possible benefits and drawbacks are.

The card contains a PowerPC chip (440MHz IIRC) and just boots a Linux kernel. That's also why all the RAM, because what you get there is a small Linux system. Basically, this is a cheap ass router board design squeezed onto a PCI card. There's nothing original here, no custom chip design or anything, all standard components used on a plethora of boards.

Then, as the Linux kernel includes some pretty sophisticated traffic shaping functions, they just hook this "router on a card" into Windows by disabling the Windows network stack and pumping all packets through - what? the Linux network stack. Heeeeeehehehehe.

Especially, all traffic shaping is done in software (Linux kernel) but on a separate 440MHz CPU. That's what they call "hardware supported" traffic shaping. Clearly a laugh, because somebody saying "hardware supported" would make me expect the logic, at least in it's crucial functions, to be hard wired. Not the case here.

So, what's the use of this? Just one: to maintain a reasonable gameplay while down- resp. uploading other stuff. That's also the reason why that is their main test case, which is also explored in that ridiculous review paper they advertise over there. You don't download, no benefit at all. Except that of enjoying the Linux network stack instead of the Windows one, which is always a pleasure of course ;)

Now, as to that use case, I can tell you that it works to some extent. Because I employ the same traffic shaping on my (Linux) router here at home. Where the router btw can also prioritize my game traffic also versus traffic coming from other PCs in my LAN. Which this card can't. As soon as your brother next door starts downloading - and not just you on your workstation - benefits are nullified. No advantage at all, you get the same jumping pings and stutter.

Then, and most interestingly, take a look at the company. Apparently, they only have this single product. And are funded by venture capital companies. Guess what that means. It means that they develop nothing on their own and just threw out this single piece, produced presumably by a random Taiwanese company to their specs, to profit from the roaring gaming industry. Well they had to write some tiny piece of software to hook that stuff into Windows. A contractor would have written that in 2 weeks I guess. Altogether, I wouldn't be surprised if that BigFoot company consists of a single person who might even just work part time for it. No engineers, nothing. That's what it looks like.

Finally, and what I said all the time: this is seriously overpowered shit. Almost a complete router board, which runs at least the Linux kernel and could run a fairly complete Linux system altogether. Don't know exactly how much power this would draw, but I guess anything around 15 to 20 Watts at least. All the time, even when you not play or download or anything.

And why is it overpowered? Because with those standard components, including the traffic shaping which comes with the free Linux kernel, they could keep their investment as low as possible. Instead, you can pay. Not only for the card, but also for your electricity bills. They just shifted over the costs and cash in all the profits. In other words, playing us for fools, that's what this is.

Because I employ the same traffic shaping on my (Linux) router here at home. Where the router btw can also prioritize my game traffic also versus traffic coming from other PCs in my LAN.

how do you do that?

iptables!
I guess it can be done by easier tools as well, like firestarter.

iptables are usefull for so many thing, wish i would understand it

Sorry for coming back late, been on holiday a couple of weeks.

No, it's not iptables, resp. only partly. iptables can be used to classify and mark the traffic for later shaping, but even that's not really necessary.

What I use is the built in Linux traffic shaping facilities, specifically the HTB queuing discipline. The command line tool to set up the whole stuff is called "tc" and is part of iproute2.

Note though that the stuff is not that well documented. Originally, when I had a cable connection, I started out from
http://lartc.org/howto/
and
http://luxik.cdi.cz/~devik/qos/htb/manual/userg.htm
which provided enough info to hack together a working setup for me. When switching to DSL though it needed some more tweaking due to encapsulation overheads related to DSL. A good starting point is
http://www.adsl-optimizer.dk/
from which I again hacked a script together tailored to my needs.

Two general remarks though. First, shaping only makes sense on upstream, because downstream your router will pipe through packets at good enough speed anyway. Of course your ISP may start buffering downstream traffic at some point, usually towards reaching your bandwidth limit, but you can't do anything about that anyway. So the real thing you want to control is your gaming traffic versus ACKs going upstream or versus real upstream traffic, like when running bittorrent. For this scenario Linux traffic shaping works really well. I can for example pretty much saturate my upstream pipe and still have a stable ping.

This comes at a cost though, i.e. slightly increased latency. Specifically, it adds about 5 to 10 ms to the ping. For some this is too much to bear, but I myself don't care because I really want to use otherwise stale bandwidth while gaming. Also, if necessary, shaping can be turned off easily with a tiny script as well, but I rarely do that. Anyway, thought this should be mentioned.

If you want to go into all the hardcore details of setting stuff up let me know. I can for example post my scripts on pastebin if you're really interested. But really only then, because I'd have to do a little work to prepare them for public consumption.

210 euros

umm...sounds like a load of crap, i hope they go bankrupt

to bad i cant play then

Sad panda and all that.

wow, the quake community seems to be really grateful for tournaments, good to know

you think esr is the quake community? wow, you guys really are stupid.

The quake community is über leet teenage osp/quake 4 diehard "diabz"

so where is it? i mean, there is no other international competitive quake community/site i am aware of

maybe he meant the 'community' part, dunno.





YOU FUCKING MORON!!!!

innit, just stop it

Oh rofl. In terms of absurdity this is on par with steelseries gaming keyboard, connectors of which are gold-plated with 20 carats (sic!) of gold

Actually, a quality NiC will make your ping lower and more stable when a lot of packets are sent. The difference between an onboard card and a good card like Intel Pro/1000PT PCIe Desktop Adapter is a few ms ping and less fluctuation. The difference between the 1000PT and Killer Xeno is most likely very small and not worth the price difference.

54/32 , no waiting list here.

5n1perok
Aerox
astronaute
bodzo
calipt
CrazyDragoN
dark`
dem0n_
dudez
elF
Fanatic81
fore
Free
Gandhi
GaRpY
GEKKO
GoHLinK
Guard
HELL
ij1
impulseBE
Kaide
kRoNic
madix
Nightbox
rld
roychez
Semper
Spart1e
suprimo
t0x1c
Weird

i spot one pro player!

and thats not the korean Free, so ul.

atleast 7 good players signed up :o)

a quakelive tournement to honour dave "bigfoot" angus, i like =]

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Barrysworld >>>>> *

ro32 is boring but from there on are great matches:
ro16: impulseBE vs Weird
ro8: Hell vs Spart1e -- Madix vs Weird/impulseBE -- calipt bodzo

also wonder how well guard will do in ql

shame its single elim

Toxic ? is it the real toxic ?

yeah, the real polish tox1c

no the fake one :(

so...rules? maplist? what time does it start ?

Its published @ team-dignitas webby.

First round starts @ 15:00 CET (This sunday ofc)
Maplist is as usual: t7, t4, ztn dm6, dm13

Full rules here:

http://www.team-dignitas.org/index.php?id=8552&page=1

you better train hard, nub.

why do you still have a signup now link there, seems kind of pointless :)

1h30 for a QL bo3 round seems huge!

spartie, bodzo, and the others.

Nicole Kidman O_O

yeah but in this case noone is afraid of the others

expensive card but seems to reduce ping and keep min fps higher

would never buy anyway

hell is cellaring a lot.

lol @ stream for logged-in users only
seriously, gtv is better be coming next tuesday or else...

wp calipt \o/ wonder what was going on with garpy on ztn though

Great, a stream for registered users only and when you register it doesn't send the activation email..

worked fine for me, spam filter?

Yeah got it now, took like 15 mins tho

The commentating is pretty good, too bad about the quality though, couldn't they have a high quality stream? It gets confusing when they are flipping between the players when you can't read the names on the screen.

wp Bodzo

when is the next match?

mms://stream2.multiplay.co.uk/quadvtv2

Direct link to the stream for opening it with VLC or WMP. Quality sucks, though

nono we need fucking GTV!!!!

man I hate those tankjr sounds

Who's shoutcasting this? I lost track of the number of times he called spartie v madix on ztn.

A_Spec

congrats bodzo wp

Connects to stream at 21:00 to see the final. Oops, it's already over. GG.

Have to have been the absolute worst commentating of a quake tournament in EVER. That girl from ITG was ten times better than this dude.. I rather watch the game without anyone casting than listen to bullshit like that..

I think to thank people who stays 5 hours streaming and commentating is better to do this comments :/

Ye, he seemed very nervous too :======SSSSSSSSSSSSSS

why?

Nice, any reason why?

massive egd

IMHO u did it well and if i didnt heard bad, this was ur first quake tourney commentaded isnt it?

;)
first of all thanks for doing the cast, i atleast enjoyed it.
still, there were a lot of thing that annoyed me, too:
(it hard to remember exatly what it was, but i will try)

- you switched povs to often. and if you do so, at least announce it clearly. its really confusing while watching a low quality stream
- to much just accounting what is happening instead of talking about upcoming fights and meta game (2gd manages that brilliantly imho)
- all in all it felt like your understanding of quake duel wasnt that great.

but dont get me wrong, thats just a list of things i felt that could be done better. its all easier said than done. i like the way you talk and get excited, so keep casting

Thank you for the feedback, always good to hear this kind of stuff. Better then the unconstructive bs I get all the time.

Thanks for doing it, but I recommend you to start playing the game. Or comment with someone, because today you missed AAAAAALOT of things that really made the game more confusing to watch.

U said that madix had an awesome rail on dm13.
You said calipt keept the map control, even tho he died at the same time as his opponent.

And from a personal viewpoint, I like to spec one guy. At least don't switch every 15 seconds as you did sometimes.

And you have developed some kind of announcer tic, repeating the same phrases over and over. And yelling some things loud just to make it exciting, when it's really not exciting at all.

And when someone gets a frag, he doesn't pick up the other player as you stated over and over.

Sorry for the blatant rage, but tbh, someone had to say something, how would you otherwise realise you need to improve. I didnt see anyone writing anything constructive before I wrote it..

We are all agree with the fact that the commentator needs to improve some things but, the way u used to tell it to him.... Dude, look at Nukm... made a constructive post letting him view what he did wrong and then look at ur post...

After I stated the "problem" in a too harsh way. I didnt even know if the guy reads esr. I didnt know his nick or anything. I msg'ed the onair| guy in #quadv, but didnt get a reply.

Since when do esr prioritize peoples feelings or constructive criticism?

Ah yes, because God forbid that we want to let this community to grow.

What exactly does that have to do with anything I wrote there? I did appologise for the harsh words, and wrote specifically what I think you did "wrong". And still you are so personally offended that you can't just ignore to reply further. Learn the game, stop thinking sounding excited makes a good caster.

I'll let the professionals decide what makes or breaks a good caster. Sadly enough you fail to recognise if a person takes personal offense or not. Anyway, I'll take your notes into consideration for the next time I do something like this. But please keep your inner troll in check before you decide to splurt our random bullshit.

I wish I logged irc and msn messages.... Cause if you took personal offense over what a hasbeen wrote about you, then you would surely cry of what the "proffesionals" wrote about you.. If honesty over the internetz hurt you, then you have picked up the wrong job...

"If honesty over the internetz hurt you..."

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

That's you.
That's what you look like right now.

Irony here is that the theory is based on UT.

tbh I doubt that any caster can talk about upcomming fights like 2gd :p Talking about what people are trying to achieve in the game... takes a lot of knowledge, and ability to read the game.

Most of the really good casters can't do that.
Most just talk about the concequence of the kills.
like:
he denied him that mega!

That was an amazing kill, but he is very low on health, can he keep control?

etc.

Then they aren't actually good casters, they're bad but presentable as opposed to awkward.

you were good, ignore the has-beens

+'ed not for post, but for your time and effort. Thank you.

Seen worse, but the POV-switching every 10sec was ultra annoying

i think you aren't in a position to comment on his commentating

fazz definitely can NOT commentate on anything related to Quake, EVER.

Fucking deal with it.

maybe he can make a remark on a game, but to insult a commentator is beyond me :)

If commentators of any sport can comment on the players without having a background of being active in that sport, u bet I can comment on the commentators.

this is what I call as "bitchslapped".

He was alright. Except for he had no time for fun facts and talk about strategy, but thats problem in any fast paced game (be it ice hockey or quake) and having only one commentator.

I didn't watch the stream, but A Spec is a terrific Warsow commentator. Have never heard him shoutcast a Quake game before.

are there any scores/demos of the games available?

Im not sure about now, but the guy commentating said there will be VODs on quadv site soon.

fragster has all the scores and demos: http://www.fragster.de/download/13/demos-replays-quake-live-duel/

hmm gg

hey, a_spec is cool okay? :<

A good tournament and fun to watch, Grats to Bodzo and thanks to A_Spec / QuadV for putting the effort in to cast this to the masses.

Although you switched up the player names a few times i really enjoyed the commentary.. good job!
NIce tournement and congrats to bodzo

The only thing that really annoyed me is the bad quality of the stream and the fact he kept giving wrong names as favorites.

None of his 'favorites' came to the finals, except maybe spartie, who sounded like an outsider in the commentator's pov...

Also what's the point of casting that gohlink vs elf game... That was beyond me. Scores were like 40-0 and 27-(-1)...
He might have been a monster in UT, that doesn't make him anyone in quakelive. I don't doubt he will be very good in the very near future, but he's far from a top favorite at this point. He has huge potential though and I hope he'll achieve with his undoubtful talent... But the main reason why he came that far in the tournament is because he didnt have any good opponent before the semifinals...

Terrible brackets ? Yes.
1 dignitas per fork of the bracket tree? Yes.

Conclusion: fail. This tournament could have been better if the tree had been done correctly with decent seedings.

Now the positive points:

Despite some odd seedings... very well run tournament, deadlines were good, I enjoyed my games and kind of enjoyed the casting nevertheless, good job A_Spec, I hope you stick to casting this game and I'm pretty sure you will improve and rock at it eventually !

My two cents ;)

it's the typical dignitas tournament, familiar from UT3 as well.. :)

The whole round 32 and 16 thing was more of a verbal agreement between me and the admin. Yes I knew that they were going to be absolutely terrible games but it couldn't be helped.

Well that's pretty sad in my opinion. I guess they wanted to ensure that there is a dignitas player in pretty much every casted game...

Altough I havent seen those games nor the scores, I can say that rld vs astronaute or reynir (div1tdm/ctf) vs bodzo (tournamentwinner) would have been a way nicer game to cast. nVc vs free probably aswell as far as I know.

Like I said, couldnt be helped sadly.