that was indeed supershotgun :D

quad = 4x

Captain obvious or Sherlock?

Yeah SG in ql is really fucked up!

I saw couple of times even on matches on qcon or ESL-TV INV ( especially fox vs noctis on t4 ) when player1 trying to take control back and he did it - then player2 just hit ridicoulus SG and control is gone

Hmm let's see hit from RG with Q takes 240hp and hit from SG with Q takes 400hp. GREAT

They really need to do something with it.

Yeah, shotgun is super stupid in QL, heh.

I've been one-shotted for 110-115 damage before. It should be lowered a bit.

he took full pellets so its 440 damage :p

outch

: /

Why the fuck was quad damage only triple in Q3? I mean seriously... what?

idiots. 4x damage was apparently overpowered in qw.

I just don't get the mentality behind that, I mean quad is supposed to be overpowered, you still killed the vast majority of people in one hit anyway...

yeah how many times would one survive a quad rail to the face in vq3 anyway? o.o
4x dmg is more fun anyway.

Yes, usually I can figure out where they were going with something, this is just an arbitrary nerf, like they wanted people to have some chance of surviving but no better reason.

Everything in q3 was meant to balanced, weapons, armors, health, movement (compared to qw and q2).
I'm guessing thats why they took it to x3 instead of x4 in both qw and q2.

Agree with you, its a ridiculous decision.

tri damage

lol

SSG needs changing abit, wider spread and reduced to max 100.

If I recall correctly, it's 11 bullets, every single one of them taking 10 points of damage, so one shotgun blast can take up to 110 points of damage. This quadrupled is 440 points of damage.

Not sure if it can be 880 with the doubler, because I rarely play any CTF :)

And SG is fine as it is, in my opinion. There's much more diversity in the game thanks to that kind of power of this gun.

What most people don't point out so often is that you have to perform a point-blank shot in order for that kind of damage to occur. If you step away only a bit from your target, it's virtually impossible to do any kind of serious damage against an enemy. And it is most definitely impossible to kill an equally skilled and equally armoured enemy that has a pg/lg/rl/rg on a medium range. Additionally, those kind of point-blank shots rarely happen because an intelligent player will play in a way that will not allow you to come close enough.

But, if you're the more skilled or intelligent player, you have some armour, and you catch your opponent off guard in one of those narrow ztn corridors, you should have a chance to take him down if you play correctly. You wouldn't have that chance in Quake 3, where you would be taken down momentarily with a freaking lightning gun, a gun that ought to be used for medium ranges. In my opinion making the shotgun much more powerful on those point-blank ranges and a little bit more powerful on medium ranges is creating much more diversity in gameplay.

Lastly, I don't agree with people saying that the shotgun is so much overpowered that it's imbalanced. I often find myself being in situations that using any other weapon to finish off an opponent that is low on health is much more preferable than using the SG.

What most people don't point out so often is that you have to perform a point-blank shot in order for that kind of damage to occur. If you step away only a bit from your target, it's virtually impossible to do any kind of serious damage against an enemy.

I've been 2 shot killed from fully stacked 190/190 with shotgun, at range, plenty of times. It's one of the main reasons I don't play QL.

yea done that myself, say at SG on ztn, to gl, that kinda range its still powerful..

Maybe complain about paper armor instead?

paper armour?

any other weapon needs some serious time to kill with the exception of rockets maybe but even then....

how exactly would a stronger armor help in that situation?

Normal Armor System like CPM have since forever: 50%,66%,75%
Even QW/Q2 Armor System is better that vq3/vql - Armors mean SOMETHING in TDM/CTF.

In general I see your point, but what does it matter in this situation?

except that thats not even possible.

at 200/200, after one full shotgun blast, u will be on 164/127.

After the 2nd shot you'll be on 128/54.

would take one more full blast and one partial to kill you.

that is unless ive totally fudged my maths which is possible... or that theres some kind of bug in ql.

I thinking he means shotgun + quad.

ah, well whats wrong with that then?

seems reasonable that that would happen...

ask him :D

that's a slight exaggeration

I didn't specify what "at range" was.

haha so pwnd :>

sg must be like this......this gun should own the close range but ihmo still doesnt...people rather use rockets ...i really dont think its overpowered at all

true, sg being overrated is overrated.

SSG in Q2 was equally powerful. not as fast though, like all the other guns.

SSG in q2 has 120 dmg, but you have to shoot _really_ close to do that kind of damage

you have to shoot very close to get that damage in QL, too. SG is useless long range in QL and decent for mid range.

i say boom boom let me hear ya say wahooooo

Sg is overpowered in ql, you see it in tdm, it easily trumps lg, and you see people using it successfully mid-range also, I wouldn't get my hopes up for the dmg to be adjusted though.

imo damage is fine, spread should be higher though

Yeah, I worded it badly. Afaik the damage is the same as in q3 atm, but the spread is fixed.

love this litle noobies talking about shotgun being overpowered X).. stop crying and learn to play.. a shotgun should be strong.. it should blast your fucking head off understand?

The shotgun should never been that overpowered, sorry knob.

you just cant stand being owned by one :)

would you use that same argument if rail did 200 dmg?

no ;) do you hate the new shotgun? i love it! :)

well, it depends.

When I have it it rocks.
When opponent has it, it's fucking overpowered and should be taken out of the game in the next 2.4 second.

;)

That's not the point, the shotgun, like iniii says a few comments lower, takes zero skill to use and the result of this new sg that you love is that everyone just runs around with it. Even more bizarre, in the new map layouts, id has seeded the maps with even more shotguns.

I guess it shows that they are from texas.

I disagree.

Firstly, if you want to do serious damage with the shotgun, you have to be very, very close. And if you are that close, there are some downsides to using the shotgun. You can be outmanoeuvred by someone who can move properly, so you have to be exact when handling the shotgun at such short distance. Also, you have to be extremely fast in your reactions, because the enemy can move behind your back in just a second. Therefore, movement becomes much more important when handling an opponent with a shotgun on a close distance. Either to back away as soon as possible, or try to outmanoeuvre him. Because of the above, it's still more preferable to use a rocket launcher on those kind of distances instead. Even if you don't hit someone directly, you can do tons of splash damage. You don't have to be that exact with this weapon. And with proper shots, you can also bounce around your opponent into the air where he's pretty much helpless most of the time.

Secondly, the skill in using the shotgun is not really the shooting and hitting itself. I find making the distance between me and an opponent so close that I actually want to use the shotgun much more challenging. But, when I finally came close to an equally stacked opponent in Quake 3 with only a shotgun, I was just taken down, didn't had a chance to fight versus his LG, RG, or RL. Now, with a shotgun, in point-blank range I actually have a chance. And I like it.

Thirdly, the maps aren't packed with shotguns. There is still a single one on dm13, ztn, t7, t9, and t4. There are two on dm6, which you rarely use because of most fights occurring on a medium distance. That's pretty much it.

I disagree.

There's no trick to using the sg, since it is mostly used at close range, even a sub par player like myself can do pretty much what I want with it, flicks are incredibly easy since the combat is in your face. With the new and improved sg I can kill a spawning opponent with one or two blasts and survive even though I had zero armour and 25 health to begin with. Lastly, have you actually played ql "pro" tdm on dm6 and not notice anything weird?

People complained that cpma vq3 was all rail & lg, which it undoubtedly is, and now we have gone to rail & sg. Even more rail-y since it is impossible to miss with it nowadays.

meh.

Can't really speak for 4v4, as I mostly play 1v1s and 2v2s. But, from my own experience I honestly believe that the game is fine as it is.

Basically what it comes down to, if you play 1vs1, it's fine and tricky to use (haha) but if you play any game with more than two players it's so easy to use it's ridiculous.

"People complained that cpma vq3 was all rail & lg, which it undoubtedly is, and now we have gone to rail & sg. Even more rail-y since it is impossible to miss with it nowadays."

hmmmm, the pb isn't the ssg imo, the pb is the shaft, it's too weak actually....

"zero skill to use" lol. Takes the same amount of skill as any weapon. You can easily miss the the shotgun from close range and pro players frequently do. By that same logic we should just remove RG. People do not generally choose SG over LG/RL in mid range as some are claiming. People use SG, as it's meant to be used, to finish off a low health opponents, or when they don't have LG/RL/PG.

Or, all the time in TDM.

There's pretty much mulitple SG's on every TDM map, your opponent often doesn't have every weapon, it's easy to close the distance, they are rarely so stacked and able to remain stacked to negate the damage, at medium range a general direction shot often results in 50% damage and at close range you'll pretty much always get 90%.

There's no precision required in comparison to LG/RG/PG/GL/MG and the RL still requires more precision and general skill to use since you can cause splash damage to yourself.

And did I mention it's more spamable than the RG/RL and takes less time to kill than the PG on average?

TDM died 6 years ago m8!

Keeping it real blud!

so, because there are some strong, but highly situational weapons makes them unbalanced? that the game aint all LG RL RG should be a good thing...

try playing the game

the weapon is fucking retarded

Try playing TDM.

Also, it's a zero-skill weapon with massive rewards for basically just being shit.

with massive rewards for basically just being shit

I LOL'd.

As if anyone plays TDM in Quake Live.

Everyone plays tdm.

i don't

you're not everyone

true, i'm better than everyone.

thats what everyone thinks

damn straight

thats cos of the way TDM plays, not really cos of the weapon. I guess a small damage nerf might be in order, but then maybe itll just devolve into the old RL LG RG shooter again.

At the moment it's just an RG shooter or SG if you can't get the RG.

Frankly, a hitscan weapon which doesn't require precision has no place in a game of this type.

CPM settings creeping into QL more and more. CPM SG is 96 damage max, roughly what I think you'd want for QL.

yeah and a circular spread .... no thx

Hello IT'S ALREADY HAVE IT AND GUESS WHAT ? IT'S FROM PROMODE GAMEPLAY !!!

oh... yeah... sure... right... :)

It's an equal spread depending on the distance, not a circular spread.

Fire at a wall 25 times without moving, then retake your screenshot and post it here. (cg_marks 1)

I know what you're getting at, but what I'm against is the solid, perfectly circular scatter of the shotgun bullets. And those screen shots show that this is not the case in Quake Live. My English might have failed me in this case :)

Right, we add a little 'wiggle' just to keep the illusion of it being random or natural, despite the reality of it being two concentric circles.

Good that you compared those screanshots to Q3 SG and confirm what i say :-]

cool hud! would you like to share pretty please? :)

That's a non-custom hud. Just set your hud to 'small' in the gui and enable cg_newWeaponBar 3 for the centered ammo.

oh thanks, didnt know about that "3" option.. is there also (non-custom) way of disabling that grey border? :P

Just like sync said ;)

Let me just add that this isn't my usual HUD, I just quickly installed my Quake Live at work and did those screenshots not even noticing that my HUD is like that ;)

Mav just allready said enough. Stop being CPMA fanboy ...

Yes, he selfowned himself again. And i will rather be fanboy of what i like rather than impairs my needs like you do. It's like divorce with beautifully wife to marry big, fat and ugly woman and tell everyone "appearance does not matter now" ;-]

What the fuck are you talking about ? "impairs my needs" ? I dont need anything, especially shotgun spreding like a perfect circle. I am not going to argue with you anymore because of your anoying attitude

That 200/200 would have lasted seconds with LG + quad, Rl + quad or PG + quad anyway. I don't see the problem. It's just great the weapon actually is useful!

poll?

DPS are fine maybe increase spread a little bit but tbh I don't care. I think it's great that we have other usefull weapons than LG/RL/RG :)

Current QL sg is for sure a bit to easy to hit and also to much damage mid/long distance. I will have to bring up the perfect Shotgun example how it should be.

In my opinion the SG should be something like it is in Q2 ( the SSG = Super Shotgun). It has high damage very close, but also a small delay so when you are fighting close you need some good timing to make full damage (You actually need to aim!). This means, the weapon is good when it's suppose to be good = Close distance, but also it is not 'stupified' like it feels in QL = Everyone can hit with it and even do a lot of damage mid range. But in Q2 mid range you do something like 20-60 depending the distance and how you aim. Long range you barely scratch your opponent.

Side note -> Q2 SSG + Quad damage maximum damage is 120x4 = 480 :)

And sorry for bringing up Q2 in QL, but it is the best example on how I would like to see the SG in QL, and of course it's just my opinion!

I wouldn't mind the power so much if it took some skill to hit and wasn't so spamable.

So if the Q2 SSG is more like that (Not played much Q2) then that sounds good to me (Or just delete the weapon).

" (Or just delete the weapon) "

i think thats the real issue here...

"In my opinion the SG should be something like it is in Q2"
"but also a small delay"

stopped reading there :D

I don't understand why not go with the dalays from Q2. They also should have added delay to RG instead of lowering damage. In stead, its now a shitty annoying laser gun from UT. ugh

Well, QL duel seems to be very well balanced but when it comes to CTF/TDM... then the weapon/armor system simply doesnt work.

Cpt. Obvious.

SG is too powerful in TDM and also in duels on pt4.
It is the easiest weapon to handle and it does too much damage in return.

There are different options at how to balance the SG (reduce damage, increase spread), but one hasnt been mentioned yet:
SG could work good with range-dependent damage.
While I'm against the scaleddamage for other weapons, I think it could work well for the SG and it would even make sense.
I think the SG in QL should be smth like this:
- 50% increased spread radius (or range dependent damage), more bullets with less damage, max 100-110 damage

I think it would be better if we reduced the firing rate, much like I would rather see the RG with 100 damage and a 2 seconds RoF. I just think it calls for a more "more brain less aim" game, since you get punished for using it in the wrong situations, but you still maintain its power.

Yes please! Also, delay before fire ala Q2 and no need to reduce RoF as much :)

I think that SG shots shouldn't go random, this sucks badly, I like how they go in Warsaw. I also think it should travel a bit vider, and, it shouldn't do more than 100 dmg. At the moment, SG is just like RL/RG/LG and that sucks. I mean, SG is a dumb weapon. It shouldn't be one of the main weapons in QL.

And yeah, I had a dumb situation with it once. I played t9 with my friend, I had lg, mh, and ya, while he had only ya and sg, he fraged me like with 2-3 shots. We were in mid range, and I was shafting pretty good...

The pellets aren't random anymore (in q3 they were).

I was talking abaut how they spread, not abaut the dmg.

I know. Shoot a wall in QL and watch the pattern.

Actually I just did, =] and it really goes random, try for yourself, if you don't see the diffrence, try increasing the
range betwen you and the wall.

Oh fuck no you're right, they changed it back to random...........ah well, I really don't care anymore, do what you want syncerror, arqon, id.

No, it was never totally un-random in QL, thet hav just restricted how random it can be. Q3's was totally insane in that regard.

When I started playing QL the SG made two circles, I see that as not random.

So it's not the two circles anymore again?

It looks random like in Q3

arent there 2 circles with a bit of deviation?

"Changes to shotgun pellet spread. Inner ring now does more damage than outer ring, for a total of 110 damage."

Here is the problem. The extra damage should be in the OUTER ring not the inner. This would make the damage dropoff faster at medium/long range while still retaining its full power up close.

super shotgun = q3 quad barrel

so make 1

lets have the AGP decide this!

SG is way to powerful. I dont think people that claim "You have to be really close to make some serious damage with it" realize how easy it is to get up close to someone.. It promotes corner camping. I mean if your opponent is stacked to the bone just get your self an SG then a YA or two and just wait for him around a decent corner. His advantage will be gone in two shots unless you seriously fk up!

OH BOO HOO HOO

Gun bring 'em doggies down, y'hear? Yeeeeeeep!

hellyeah, bring the quadshot http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/detail...c5339ef916