http://wikis.jp/interfacedevice/index.php?MaximumSpeed

G9x doing well!

LOL

looks like japanese are way more nerdy than esr

Not possible! :3

Yes, surprisingly good for g9x.

I'm not surprised ;) :D

new sensor (ADNS-9500) makes a difference.

Once again, the Japanese takes a good idea and pulls out ahead. :)

Until the best players in the world stop winning with 10 dollar mice I don't care what any review says.

WMO4EVER

just because one inexpensive mouse works for some doesnt mean it will for all. It may track well but other factors such as ergonomics (which also depends on the user), buttons & placement are factors that also matter.

correct. Which is why the Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 is the greatest mouse without comparison.

Word.

You got served homie! Booya

I won a MS Sidewinder like 2 months ago and I must admit I am getting used to it even though I have been a Logitech guy ever since Dual Optical. It is a bit large for me but I got smallish hands compared to other guys.

Wow great find!! Would be great is someone could do a proper translation. Maybe get in contact with the creator to make an english version. Would be big news again.

By the way, good promise for the Xai (same sensor as G9x).
Will deff buy that mouse (mostly because of the IMO1.1 shape).

I contacted the wiki admin if they plan an english translation in the future (+ I gave them a small technical info) but I haven't got an answer yet.

PS: Any japanese here? :D

PPS: found more (I knew I have seen somethimg similar before), added it to the start post

PPPS: yep, imho the Xai will kick ass

any reaction from the author yet?

jep, no tranlation plans for understandable reasons but he will contact the guy who made the speed tests and the button reaction test

xai out yet? that's the only new gen mouse I could actually keep

not yet but should be released soon

hi, here is translated page.(experimenter そうす 's page)
http://sousuch.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DIY/mouse_latency/index.html

great work

thx :)

managed to guess most of it pre-translation, but wp nice work :D

+

is it me, or is that a completely different page?
would like the translation of the first website posted

It's the latency test in english and japanese

PS: added speed tests in english

good work!

Really nice find. Some very useful information on there!

always knew the ie3.0 had slow button clicks.

even the mx 510-518 were about 20ms faster input.

the ikari optical has quick response time with clicks too.

The deathadder is quicker too.

They should have tested them all at 500hz, instead of 1000.

why?

interesting

if the g9x wasnt so overpriced/horribly shaped/have stupid grip gimmicks

it would be worth buying

Xai has the same sensor ;) G500 too

How do you know that the Xai has the sensor? Are hey are literally the same or are they just similar in specifications?

I just know, if you know the various sensors it's not very hard to find out such things.

It's not the exact same sensor but the same "sensor hardware", SS and Logitech have different solutions, for example Logitech has the "velocity dependent angle snapping" exclusively.

The update to 5700 CPI / 165 ips is most likely also exclusively to Logitech but that doesn't really matter.

when xai coming out now? it is best mouse shape and awsome sensor so shush.

Should have one on monday or tuesday.

dunno, afaik it's delayed, german shops have around 1. Oct as relase date

what da fuck is 1. oct? Do you mean Oct 1st?

yea sry, damn austrian date format,I meant Oct 1st :D

learn the fucking language already and show some respect when talking to a trueblood american

Nice sarcasm there.

http://www.alienware.com/accessories/gear-sho...CatId=1154

looks pretty G9ish, but nice price tag

ye. not my kind of mouse but seems to be a good deal if some1 was thinking of geting the g9x. who needs weights anyway.

jep, not my kind of mouse either

still I would prefer it over the G9x but there are too much flaws of the G9x left

i tried it at quakecon... was flakey

which flaws exactly?

sensor position and the wheel

sensor position is a minor issue. wheel is fine?

minor is subjective and I just don't like 4-way wheels

me neither only g9 wheel is superbly made, come to think of it it's the best wheel on any mouse ever.

also you get used to the sensor in no time. the only thing that really sux about this mouse is the shape

looks like we have different opinions on both matters ;)

so you like the shape and hate the wheel. well that's, special. :)

na, I don't like the shape either but I think I could get used to it

oh btw, have you tried the logi g500?

na, never liked the MX518/G5 shape and almost 120g is way too heavy for my taste but I guess it's a very decent mouse

ye I'm asking because:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/logitech-g50...,8402.html
if they removed that retard ledge it's pretty much a perfect mouse

I just got the g500 and the ledge on the right side of the mouse is definitely still there. In the promo shots it looks like the right side of the mouse it completely smoothed out but that's just not the case. Granted the ledge is smaller in comparison to the MX518/G5 but it's still hard to put your ring finger comfortably under it. Also since the main buttons are bigger, there isn't enough room on top of the ledge to rest your ring finger up there. Very disappointing. Back to the IE 3.0.

one question. is there something rattling in your mouse? I have something in mine, nothing special but annoying nevertheless.

Rattling in the g500 i had aswell.

I modded my G5 so it doesn't have that. Mouse is still a piece of shit though.

Attached Image: 72511-moddedg5.jpg (259KB)

how do you hold your mice?

what bothers so much about the sensor position?

for me off-center sensors feel some kind of weird but I never gave such a mouse a longer chance, so I can't really tell if I would be able to adapt

lookin at it and i don't see logically how the off center position would change movement anymore from center. they seem to travel the same distance.

i do most of my flickshots with my fingers (clawstyle) therefore not moving the mouse as a whole but rather swing the top part of it around. so atleast for people like me sensor positioning makes a difference ingame.

but from what i see that would affect the vertical positioning of the sensor, not left to right off-centering.

My personal thoughts about this:
when doing large horizontal moves quickly, your arm and especially hand makes a little curve. So the mouse gets a little rotation. And so this will reflect ingame. Having the sensor in the palm of the hand minimises this... i think!

yea, i've looked at that and it still seems like that would only matter for the vertical positioning of the sensor, not whether it is off center to the left or right.

Otherwise, it still travels the same distance

it still affects the Y-axis

how? the way the wrist joint/fingers move from side to side isn't the same as the movement thats needed to move a mouse up and down

if you rotate the mouse in the best case scenario the center of the rotation is the sensor, the more the sensor is off-center the more movement on the screen you get

it doesn't matter if the sensor is vertically off-center or horizontally, only difference is that you get x-axis movement with a vertically off-center sensor and y-axis movement with a horizontally one

I haven't tried the G500 yet but I guess the far vertically off-center sensor of that mouse would be bigger problem for me than the G9x, which just feels weird for me, np if it's fine for others

i do not think this is true.. i just don't see it. It comes down to ergonomics: obviously the closer the sensor is to the wrist joint, the less movement with that joint will be recorded, because the sensor will travel less space . For this reason wrist joint movements are affected by the vertical positioning of the sensor

But there are no other other hand joint movements that are affected by horizontal positioning of the sensor. All the movements still from point A to point B travel the same distance, no matter where the sensor seems to be on the horizontal plane. Imagine where the sensor is in the middle vs like the g9 off to the side, and after moving where each lands, and in both instances they travel the same distance

http://www.abload.de/img/sensorposition1v7p.jpg

I know my Paint skills suck ^^

as you can see the distance between wrist joint and Sensor B is bigger than between Sensor A, so the distance Sensor B is moved if you rotate the mouse (wrist joint = center of rotation) is bigger than the distance Sensor A is moved

but imho all that technical stuff isn't that important
it's the feeling I have when holding a mouse and translating my hand movement on the screen, I don't aim with my index finger or wrist but with the center of the thing (the mouse) in my hand
that's what feels natural to me

so I guess having the sensor at the lower bottom of the mouse, which would be the minimun distance to the wrist, would also feel "wrong" for me ;)

english isn't my native language but I hope you get what I want to say

But that still isn't illustrating the movement the proper way.

What swipe/direction is the mouse moving in the diagram? According to the size/location of it, it seems to be moving directly up (you also said vertical movement was what would be affected).

That means where Sensor B was was not the same where Sensor A was initially. It is implied according to the diagram that Sensor A and B were where the wrist joint was (or close to it, in actuality)-- but where Sensor B actually was was directly to the right of that. Which means they still traveled the same distance.

I Re-edited to show that here:

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/576/sensoroffcenteredited.jpg

Taking it a step further, taking a vertical-side movement from where the mouse is currently in the diagram, the sensors still travel the same distance:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8162/sensoroffcentersideways.jpg

na, I meant if you rotate your wrist (the blue dot) there is more movement if the sensor is located off-center (Sensor B) than if it's centered (Sensor A) cause the distance between the sensor and the center of the rotation is bigger
ofc, there is no difference if you move the mouse just up/down or left/right without rotation

Sensor A and B are just 2 possibilities where you could put the sensor on the mouse

No it isn't, I've traced that movement too. Rotate the mouse using your wrist, both sensors still travel the same distance, as long as they are on the same horizontal plane. If they were different vertically, then they would travel different distances, but being off center left to right doesn't affect that.

ok, let's do some math

distance between wrist (center of rotation) and Sensor A:

a = 10cm

distance between sensor A and B:

b = 2cm

distance between wrist and Sensor B:

cฒ = aฒ + bฒ --> 10,198... cm

now we rotate the wrist 10ฐ:

alpha = 10ฐ

formula for arc length:

L = (alpha * pi * r) / 180

Sensor A: L = (10 * pi * 10) / 180 = 1,74532... cm

Sensor B: L= (10 * pi * 10,198...) / 180 = 1.77989... cm

as you can see, in this example the sensor travels 0,03457.. cm more if the sensor is positioned on B instead of A

not much but something :D

with 400 CPI that would result in 5-6 counts more

No its all around the center... see when your mouse rotates, the only point that stays on the same place is the exact center. Like a compasses. So when there's rotation in the mouse, these points would give weird curves to your mouse input.

Normally while holding the mouse the point you rotate around is your wrist or your elbow, maybe the rear of the mouse if you rotate it with your fingers only, but never the middle of the mouse.

you're right, I also thought about that
maybe thats the reason why some logitech mice have the sensor lower (towards the wrist)

Then again, if the mouse sensor would be under the rotation point, we wouldnt be able to have the extra speed achieved by use our wrist.

Still I think the mouse feeling is better when the sensor is centered. Could simply be because of what I'm used to (so my brain automaticly adjusts for that curve).

if the sensor would be placed near my fingers (upper half of the mouse) it would register even the small movements i do with my fingertips = i could use a lower sens and aiming might be easier (in theory).

This was the whole appeal of microsoft ball mice. They had the 'sensor' (in this case a ball) near the front. It doesn't look like it but it really was when you held the mouse 'normally' your hand would naturally gravitate towards the back of the mouse. You could use the dexterity of your fingers to make precise small movements, and larger movements with your wrist if you needed it.

http://www.tcocd.de/Pictures/Peripheral/Micro...se20-2.jpg

The logitech wheel mouse placed it more in the center of the mouse, which some people liked as well. This meant more wrist motion though, although still quite a good spot for the sensor. Photos are hard to come by, but you can tell in this small one here:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:sTKNLf8pRh...ses320.JPG

Then the Razer boomslang came a long and thought all that was way too logical and moved the sensor, originally a fancy 1000 or 2000 dpi ball setup to the back of the mouse.

http://img.product.pchome.net/market/photo/2007/09/09/131172b.jpg

No clue how anyone could tolerate this, but obviously it worked for some, especially fatal1ty.

As if things couldn't get any more bananas, logitech came out with their mouseman dual optical.

http://www.overclockers.com.au/articles/195196/bottom_small.jpg

Out of all the mice I tried, this one felt the most crap. What were they thinking? Why not just put a mouse sensor on my elbow if we're going to go ape-illogical here.

Luckily most modern mice have the sensor either directly under where the palm would likely rest. I'd like to see some mice try and place it more towards the front though. The results could be good, especially considering all them fancy high DPI sensors they have now.

i couldn't agree more.

another one for old times sake - the wgm:

http://pics.computerbase.de/1/3/3/0/9/6.jpg

why would you prefer the alienware over the g9x?

dunno, just looks like the shape would fit me better than all the G9x grips

heh, seems they raised the price in the mean time.

Logitech called: "Hey, raise the price, you let us look greedy if you sell the mouse for such a low price" :D

hopefully they will test the steelseries kinzu / xai (i think kinzu is released now, not sure)

Xai should be similar to G9x unless they fucked something up. The computer store closest to me has both the Xai and kinzu as confirmed for delivery on Monday so they should show up everywhere soon.

MO
THER FUC
ER

Someone test da Xai and Kinzu. Tell me if the buttons are very responsive ( at least better than the slow button clicks of the ie3.0)

The test only takes into account hardware though; a mouse with good hardware but bad ergonomics could end up producing more net latency than a mouse with mediocre hardware but good ergonomics.

what????

10cm/360 here (~4"/360)
no need for 7m/s speeds lol \:D/

Xai Max Speed

some "stability graphs":

Xai

G9x

Deathadder

Sidewinder X3

I don't know what settings he uses for those graphs or on what data exactly they are based, such fluctuations can also be caused by unstable polling rate and don't necessarily mean "unstable sensitivity"

how to read those graphs? Why is the xai line thicker than the g9x?

also, i thought the reason unstable polling was undesired was because it caused unstable sens?

dunno, google translate doesn't work that well with japanese, maybe he had more data for the Xai

ofc it's better to have stable polling rate but as long as the polling rate is high enough it isn't a that big issue

if you move your mouse with total stable polling rate of 1000hz it sends for example at a certain speed 4 counts every ms or 4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4 counts over 10 ms, if it's unstable it might send 0-8-4-4-0-8-0-8-4-4 which are still 40 counts in 10 ms

so the sens is a little unstable but in such a small time span that it shouldn't really matter

Which DeathAdder are they testing in that graph? The 3.5G refresh or original 3G?

the original 3G, he digged out the data from his original test with the DA

7meters is a bit much but 6 is definitely possible, I've made a chart try it out:
(I suggest a watch and perhaps do it WITHOUT a mouse ;)

YES usually you do just 1 swipe, but it shouldn't be too off.

50cm swipe * # per sec.
_4 times=2 meters s Sloth Easy! :P
_6 times=3 meters s Easy peasy! :)
_8 times=4 meters s I can do it =)
10 times=5 meters s CAN I do it? :s
12 times=6 meters s My arm hurts! =O
14 times=7 meters s uuurgh!!! xC
_________________________________
25cm swipe * # per Sec. (more difficult obviously)

_8 times=2 meters s (4 times "back AND forth") Easy peasy! :)
12 times=3 meters s (6 ...) I can do it =D
16 times=4 meters s (8 ...) CAN I do it? :s
20 times=5 meters s (10 ...) OH CRAP!!! =O
24 times=6 meters s (12 ...) In your dreams? nah! :|
28 times=7 meters s (14 ...) ROBOT xC
จจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจจ

this applies to wanking also

the esr mousescore 2007 suggests the g3 is only suited for high sens players.

is this still reliable?