remove the timer.

initially a good idea. until someone gets the idea of constantly having a look on his watch

I can already see the whine

"You clock-hacking asshole, come to lan to prove you can really time, fucking cheater !!!!"

funny thing is that this still happens now from time to time ;)

cpmstyle

You shouldn't make decisions based on whether someone could cheat.

No matter how petty the "cheating" may be, it would still be cheating.

opportunity makes a thief.

idd

Sometimes, but you can't use that for anything or life would suck.

don't you mean "everything"?



Cause, for example, I think life would suck more if I stopped locking my car ;)

True.

But still, you lock your car to stop someone driving it away, you don't stop the car from driving so someone can't drive it away.

in cars you have the steering lock ;)

I do get what you mean, but in this case I think "cheating" with a digital clock is just way too easy and convenient.
I mean I doubt that many people would do it in normal games (except maybe those that hate the change and are stubborn).
But in smaller online tourneys, especially those with a small cash price it is bound to happen.


In the end even thiefs and cheaters calculate like this:
"benifit" mustbebiggerthan "sanctions" times "probability to get caught" + "own morals"

And since the probability to get caught approaches zero, the benefit only has to be bigger than the personal morals.

Yes you do, most modern cars have immobilisers which directly prevent the car from driving.

Not while you're driving/in the car though.

Theres no clock seconds clock in cpm, no one uses a watch, after awhile your internal clock kicks in ;)

You could always tape a stopwatch in the corner of your display.

idiot

this

and mega spawn timing the same as in q2

No =(

Oh, cmon! All this pluses from people, who can't time so they want to remove advantage of people, who can.
Lazy nobrain aimers :(

some can time without timer.. the people who can't time are the ones counting.

All we can "guess" spawn time once or twice. Especially after several years of playing. But tell me nick of player, who can time (+- 1sec) at least 2 items for the whole match?

"the people who can't time are the ones counting. "
Most of players do not count at all. Maybe just run from armor to armor. No one cares about powerups nowadays, there are no armor stats in quakelive. Its all about aim accuracy..

So please don't tell this "Pros feel time, noobs count by timer" bs :)

"from people, who can't time so they want to remove advantage of people, who can."

I just mean counting isn't timing. It's more skillful to be able to estimate when an item is coming based on feeling than to add 23+25. So saying it's the no brainers to want to remove the clock is completely wrong.

Brain can't give you feeling of spawn time. Years of practice can. New players should not be doomed to failure in control because of lack of practice, but must be rewarded for this "23+25" counting. It easy, in your opinion, but somehow most of players do not even try to do it.

most ppl probably don't even try it because its boring as fuck

Well, then yes, its simplier to remove timer and not torturing yourself anymore with "I could win, if I was more focused"

ur a very smart diva! :)

\:D/

if i want to solve riddles in between throwing stuff at the people around me i'd take a math course at uni. leave quake alone please :<

Changing the time won't change a thing - people will adapt to it eventually and we'll be back on square one

Removing the timer would definately change the game but not necessarily in the right direction. I like the concept of timing items.

I'd say we need new maps that are properly designed to keep up a good weapon balance - unlike tourney6

atm its not timing, it's the same way people having played quake can predict rockets, it's not like you do a mathematical formula, you pretty much just know where to shoot it

lamer, thats why pro`s delaying items! skill skill skill asshole!

lol yeah make it random. Also make it spawn at random places.

Terrible idea btw

you don't have to write it, if you think it's a terrible idea, yourself.

Why? Whats wrong with terrible ideas?

Also QL should have a nuke launcher

good point.

They also should remove that pesky strafejumping so people who can time, can't get there fast enough!

:D

Lol, stop playing dm6.

better add feature to drop medkit
NO U
gg

Add medic class

and let Raven develop it.

Play TDM.

Well in UT armours are 27.5 sec and I can tell you that there is nothing hard with it. The shield belt is 55 sec (add 5sec substract 1min), which is twice the time of armour which makes it armour armour belt armour armour belt :P What I like about it is it gives more time to position yourself and actualy more opportunities to get it back or at least distrupt opponent. The weapons (and boots) are also 27.5 which is great cause you can truly time some weapons depending on opponent and map, and in some cases you can even add them to your path, practicaly denying many if not most of them to opponent. Thats one weak point of QL I think. It is still partialy acceptable with 15 sec weapons respawn time, but 5 seconds is a ffa joke.

Even amp (quad) is 110sec (add 10sec substract 2min) which is belt twice, and four times armour. The only item not fitting in the 27.5 multiplicity scheme is health which is 18.33, so it will respawn a bit earlier than armour. What is also good about UT's armour system is that it has different level of protection. Pads are 50pts of 50% protection, armour is 100pts of 75%, and shield belt (which is actualy a powerup) is 150pts of 100% so getting hit with it wont damage your health. It equals additional 25hp, 75hp and 150hp if we wouldnt run out of it in case of pads and armour. I think CPM is currently the only other game which use similiar approach, but it doesnt allow for armour stacking. Warsow also used such system in the past, but it seems they removed it.

Personaly I find UT's system most challanging, however overall gameplay should also be considered (maps, weapons, movement) and it doesnt mean that if we took it over to QL it would work fine. Everything must fit each other. What I think saves QL big time is 10seconds difference with mega. It gives a bit of breath as well as big possibility to mess up everything. Overall it may not be perfect, but it is playable and fits the game. I mean just look at UT3, it has the worst armour system I have ever seen.

10 weapons
20 armour
40 health
Would fit QL more than the UT times.

Or 10>20>30 to keep the MH mixing up.

Im rather sceptical as far as decreasing goes, but far from idea of introducing UT times either. I would like to check the game with 25 sec weapon respawn, I guess I will have to excavate vQ3 :P

Also I never payed attention to ammo respawn time in QL. I will have to check it out too, cause if weapon respawn time will get delayed it is possible that ammo packs role will increase.

I was thinking because people complain so much about the 10 minute time limit not being enough. By decreasing the time you'd get more items and more chances kinda thing.

I believe ammo is 30s.

The danger with decreasing is that you have actualy less time for fighting in between spawns and positioning yourself. It even takes away some possibility of chasing your opponent down, cause getting a frag may result in loosing items. This could work in game which allows for frantic speeds like Warsow, however still at the expense of map control.

Well Im not saying that would happen with times you mentioned, but it must be taken into consideration. You may reduce match time, you can reduce item respawn time, however you wont reduce distance between items. We have to watch out not to turn duel into ffa. The best would be just set up vQ3 server and test things out with some top players, especialy ones playing defensively.

I think Warsow is a good example here as while definitly enjoyable is no tournament game.

Should be ok if we're going to play maps like t9 :P

If armors were 20, there wouldn't be enough time to go around the map, ppl would just camp on armors...
Maybe it would be better if armors were 35 and mega 45, players could show some surviving skills.

I don't agree that it would cause camping, but increasing could also work, I do like seeing players survive with limited resources but some maps would need more health/armour to "counter" (e.g. t4/dm6 are already pretty low).

Maybe if ya remained 25 then, it would give the defending player more opportunities to steal control. This might work particularly well on dm13/dm6 imo.

18,33 is a third of 55 ;)

Seriously I would like to know who and how got idea of those exact times :P

easy:

someone said: "let's make time for belt a minute, armor half that, health a third and amp double"

then they had some shots, played a round and someone got bored.
Then they reduced belt to 55 seconds and the calculations for the other items were already put in.
Then the deadline hit.

Voila.

I think so too, but still an official version would be nice.

I dont have UT installed anymore, however the default game setting was not normal speed.

I think you would find that normal speed spawns are 1 minute, whatever it is played at is 55s and ultra is faster again.

At least that is my guess. I always wondered if the default game speed was an accident or not.

I just checked it and it is 55sec on game speed 100% which is set as default.

I do recall something about game speed being set to 105% (which I just measured gives around 52sec) from back when I was playing on lan in 2000, but whether it was our own doing or something later fixed in patch, I have no idea.

UTs system might be good in theory but if the implementation is the same as UT maps then no thanks.

UT was way way way easy to time/control due to the total lack of things needing timing. Two per map mostly. In cases like curse only one per map.

To add to the thread : I dont think changing timing to weird numbers will do much, people will either memorise the numbers or do the lolsimple math in their head.

I dont think removing the clock will help all that much either.

Mega in one iteration spawned after the health was removed from the player? This idea sounds interesting to a point.

Thats why you time some weapons, on liandri timing shock rifle is common and on deck timing boots can be crucial. On codex if you set things right, you can deny everything aside bio, mini and ripper. If I was to point out map on which timing is less revelant that would be turbine, which has more of ztn style gameplay.

If we look at typical tournament map list
Agony - deny everything you possibly can
Codex - deny everything you possibly can
Deck - boots, if possible try to deny sniper rifle
Liandri - shock, keep in mind how far belt and armour are apart
Turbine - stack with health vials and play hide and seek

To be honest you made me think hard about timing being easier in UT due to less armours, and no mega. However if that would be the case I think I would notice, but I dont get more stressed over timing in QL nor feel more relaxed in UT.

Also look what happened in UT2k3 where someone got brilliant idea to play duel with amp. An additional crucial item made game so stretched that you couldnt chase respawning opponent cause there was high risk of losing control. One of reasons why UT2k3 failed. I think something similiar could happen with UT. Additional armour on current maps would most likely destroy balance, possibly resulting in more ffa, while maps made specialy to accomodate it would be too big.

About mega spawning after health is reduced to 100, it works fine in Warsow, but does it makes things harder? One good option is prolonging it with 5hp bobbles, so you can actualy dely mega respawn when your hp is closing to 100. On another hand you can shot yourself a bit to get it spawn few seconds earlier. Then I havent seen anyone aside me doint it. Anyway in theory it gives advantage to the one who picked it up first, so unless he will get heavily damaged then opponent wont know exact respawn time. You can say it stresses a bit more ability to track your opponent health, but that shouldnt be an issue for top players.

I would prefer a reasonable armour system rather than relying on timing weapons, boots or random goats that happen to be in the game. You could take this to the next level by saying to time ammo if you played with weaponstay on. If there was no ammo and all pickups had max (not far wrong given ut mapper mentality of placing 1-2 ammo packs at every gun) you could say that you could time health packs. Just because you can time something does not make it interesting or a good thing for the game. I agree that weapons should be denieable (unlike ql) but I do not agree that timing them like armour is a solution to a broken armour system.

Different armour layouts would change the maps, and most of them would break unless more thought was put in that UT has had applied to it. I have always thought the reason UT duel works on almost all maps is due to the very high damage weapons and rather meaningless armour. Low number of spawns per minute combined with high output weapons mean that the armour does not last long and naked combat is quite often the order of the day.

Also I am not discussing 2k3/4 because they were both fail for many reasons, least of which was using the amp and over stretching players. In fact I would go as far as to say that making players stretch for pickups and map control is a good thing. Note that I am not stating the amp is good, merely that stretching map control is good.

Well we do control some ammo in Warsow despite having 3 armours and mega to work with, but I guess thats a special case. However just because you can time something aside armour does not make it less interesting, and can be good for game. I think the best example are boots on Deck. When you fight there against someone with superior sniper the primary solution is to stick to the armour area where you can engage in close combat. The problem is that even if you decide to give that big advantage of belt to opponent, you still are forced to go out for boots, because even if you manage to create close combat situations and top your opponent with superior stack, with boots he has means of leaving the fight when he decides to. I dont see how this would imply that armour system is broken.

I do agree that high damage of weapons is point that makes UT so playable. Actualy Carmac did expres it with his article about how to create game ballance by unbalanced weapons in which he had UT in mind. Still that game is all about running armours just like any other one, so meaningless? No, sir.
Regarding damage there is also issue of positioning and spam. It is important in QL, but you can survive a rocket or two in decent shape. In UT however there is no surviving of 6 pack, combo or 225hp flak ball. Even if you do, the end is near. In such case a single 27.5sec armour and 55sec belt, gives you enough time to position yourself to defend the item as well as to try to find your way around it. This should also include limited possibility to chase after your opponent. You simply need that time to make your game work. Based on experience Im honestly convinced that additional armour would overstretch UT, and the only way to avoid it would be use of smaller maps which would induce too much ffa.

no clock

cpm style mega health

you mean qw style?

Vq3 is a dumbed down version of quake...Before changing timing, i would first change movements, hitboxes & weapons.

and you're dumbed down version of a proper human..

No bunny, no double jump, no ramp jump, easy to hit rail gun shots, no ac, no cs, fucked up lg.

So plz just stfu

so why don't you go play another game and stfu then?

I do, but when i see ppl asking for a "harder" game with such a wrong base i can only say what has to said.

Its like asking to a Renault R5 to go faster than a Mclaren F1...It's retarded...

It's actually retarded to complain about a game that you don't play inthe first place. And just because things you are mentioning are missing doesn't make vq3 easier

1.I didnt complain, i just exposed facts...

2.I still play the game one a week just to see.

3.It is harder to hit a rail in Q2, it is harder to hit with rail & shaft in Q4 due to hitbox.
It his harder to move fast when you have more tricks to do (and btw to learn)
(i was writing a lot about movement but i got lazy and cut to the shortest)

So these things that are laking makes the game easier...Cs has dumb weapons & movements so it makes the games easier than quake 3...

4.If it's not clear enough i'm only talking about duel...I love playing PK 1v1 but i dont think i'd love to play it in 4v4...

i played cpma for 2 weeks, owned skilled ass in 1 week, its so easy game, run run run run hit hit hit, look @ fox, he owned all cpma players in cpma and voo didnt! :DDDDDDD vq3 >>>> cpma!

i'm sure you were really good in cpm, sure matey

Does Guard know what he's talking about or he's incredibly ignorant?

ignorant.

Give the teen a break. =)

DId fox really play any good players at dh?

only drunk pod1

is drunk pod1 better than sober pod1?

depends on what you wanna do with him ^^

funny clan names, silly poles

Ye right, it was pod1 first big tourney with money, fox play hundreds of such tourneys. Let's call those 2 to play some more that 3 games and then you can only know with player is better, not with game because it is nonsense.

well, actually they do.

lol QL fansboys are the same as Q4 fanboys, honestly tell me one good reason to play QL over OSP? and no new players because they wont play for long after getting face rapped by someone who knows the gameplay for 10 years now

-weaponrespawn 15sec
-weapon ammo behavior like in q4 (e.g. picking up a 2nd rl wont give 10 addition rockets except it was dropped by the enemy)

-weapon ammo behavior like in q4 (e.g. picking up a 2nd rl wont give 10 addition rockets except it was dropped by the enemy)
its came from q3

k I didnt play much q3 :P

IMHO timing is the hardest thing in Quake from my pov. I'm always really impressed by how well pros can time 4 items at once, just wow.

Timing is the weakest part of my game. My aim and movement is ok, I know quite how to dodge, positions etc, etc. I'd say I play fairly well... but my timing sucks ass and I lose most of my games because of that.

I only time mh by remembering those digits in my head (for example, if the mh is taken at 1:20, I automatically know the next will be 1:55 without adding anything). However I'm often forgetting it in the middle of battle or when my opponent has the map control and I have to play +b. And I time armors only by "feeling" which often doesn't work that well.

I fucking suck at timing and it hurts me so much. But I was always bad at maths, so it doesn't surprise me.

Timing 2 items is beyond me ;]

/personal whine

if u have problems with timing try to play ctf DEF and time 3-5 items gl

maybe you should move your timer closer to the center of the screen (see noctis' hud)
btw i doubt anyone times 4 items, i believe most top players time 2, purri said himself he times only one, but i suspect killsen might be timing all on dm6 :)

It has nothing to do with timer :) it's big enough and in the center of the screen. I just can't focus to add digits in my head when the action is hot. I NEVER time armors ( :( ), only mh, and still I have problems with it (something like "errr... what was that mh time?" after some time when i've picked it up). I know the exact next mh time when I'm picking it up, but often forgetting it during next half minute. My brain sucks :(

well there are little tricks that help you with forgetting time, on ztn you can learn to tell who picked what and what comes next (in an ideal situation you run 3/4 items by timing only one), on dm6 if you know you picked mh and then ra, you know that when next ra spawns, the mh is in 5 secs etc.
or you can play it like zero4/dkt by feeling ;)

I can mostly time the RA/YA/YA/MH on ztn "no problem" without even using the clock, other maps I've barely played in comparison so it's a little harder.

I hate you.

I've just run about ztn too much.

I can't time for shit on dm6 and always forget mh on t4.

hehe, well you know that timing mh on t4 is the easiest of all maps? :>>

adding 2 mins is easy :P

Yup :)

I would say just the opposite, but it is matter of method :P

timing != knowing in what order items will spawn o0

If you play a map enough 25/35 seconds is not hard at all without a clock since you can judge using your movement around the map.

1min into a duel and you know if your enemy times by the second, its not the same

You're an idiot.

and your wrong.

Obviously timing by the clock isn't the same but that doesn't mean that if you don't use the clock it isn't timing.

I guess when people have spent years using clocks, timers and coaches as crutches for timing they lose their ability to realise how much time has passed.

p.s. you're

You just described me :D

I will say something you probably are aware off, but you actualy dont need to time all the items to control them. Instead of trying to remember the times, just keep in mind order in which items were taken. For example you have just taken upper yellow, so next one will be red, and then lower yellow. At first it is mostly creating a path, but with time you will be able to track each item individualy. The only thing you need to be aware is 10 second difference with mega, so you must take positioning and travel time into consideration, delaying pickups to set everything if needed. Timing is just one of the tools used for map control, not the map control itself.

I often hear that I would be beaten if I didnt time everything down to a single second, but the truth is I havent used clock in years. Still I know it is possible to exactly time multiple items, and Im amazed how close some top players can keep a track of them while not losing any effectivenes in prediction department.

The problem is that a guy who is timing even one item to the second will have a huge advantage over you. For example on DM6, everyone knows where people wait for mega, if you are waiting for even 3 seconds and the other guy knows the exact second it's going to spawn, you are either not going to get it, or you are going to die.

It is all about positioning yourself, we often see top players coming early for it. They try to fend off opponent with shaft or go high and deal some damage with rl. Coming exactly on time for item works only if you have far superior stack, opponent doesnt have right weapons, or you are low and just want to snatch it away even if that means losing frag. When it comes to map control, positioning is often way more important than exact timing.

I think it is whether you lack the capacity to develop your intuition, or you don't practice enough, I'm saying this because I started to play dm6 and generally maps with RA recently, and I already kinda know when it is time MH and RA to respawn, no need for astronomical maths, in fact, after a 10-15 seconds run/fight, it is always time to prepare for the pickup/positioning or longer the fight, in order to grab something -last case, it doesn't matter whoever win the fight, or sometimes it is better if you die after a tough fight, because you will be able to pick up both RA+MH, which mean god bless control

well, if both players can time good, then we have a good game because it will come down to the question who can aim better and/or who has better tactics, control, brain etc.

ps.:
removing timer is senseless.
stop hating and accept the rules.

It was sarcasm from noctis. For really good players, presense or absence of timer on their HUDs won't decide anything.

wasn't sarcasm, i'd love to see the timer gone from quake.. or at least made like in cpm with the "2:XX"

everybody would use a watch.

apparently online tournaments matter all of a sudden?:)

Apparently there are people not playing tournaments at all which are probably the vast majority? ;)

who shouldn't care about second perfect timing in the first place then since its hardly fun to time items

imho anyway

well i can just speak for myself but i see it as an additional challenge and even though i play just casually i want to win the games i play. knowing somebody i play against might use a watch because of a missing timer would take the fun away for me :x

Its never fun playing against cheaters, no matter how big of a cheat it is :)

In fact i had fun trying to beat someone who was using an aimbot on warsow...I knew that i could never out-aim him so i started to use tactics ect...

But someone cheating with a timer would be different...I just wouldnt care...Might say that he's a pussy...

point is if you're to cheat with a bot you have to go trough the trouble of finding it, dling, risk getting caught etc... with a timer you just put a clock next to your screen.

imo id should implement some of the things suggested here:
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1688160

erm, or program your own

wat

i have never heard any cpm player complain about his opponent using a watch.

and if you did sue a watch, gl with that, looking back and forth all the time, you'll get annoyed after a few minutes

he could set the clock to ring

are you trolling?

how is that supposed to help? ring when? at the time it spawns to find you're on the other side of the map? 10 seconds befor it spawns, and then you're clueless again?

however you want to do it, its either coupled with alot of complicated stuff and would really be easier just to learn to time by yourself

ding dong! :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4onbsh1VNfM

there comes the mega!

too bad dansen is kinda late!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C54k_-ZD5gA

also so u wanna win rapha? dude if u cant 25+25 it doesnt mean that the part of the game should be removed

no I disagree althought I rarely time items. There are several timing tactics which makes a difference... but I cant time items after a funny smoke ;)

weird smoke :P

I personally like not having a timer in the corner.

That is how it was in quake 1 and quake 2, and I just felt it enabled players to showcase their timing skills better than just doing simple math because you have a clock in the corner.

When I see somebody jump on an item right when it spawns, I don't think "wow, that was good timing," I just think ok so he had it noted when he picked it up and he used the clock.

No timer makes players time it in their head and by "feel" which in my opinion makes for more exciting games. Players could be off by a few seconds and enable another player to maybe sneak some resources or gain good position because they are waiting in a dangerous area for an item instead of just "timing, grabbing, and running."

I always felt it was a lot more impressive when somebody jumps on something the moment it spawns without having a timer to tell them the exact second something is up.

Of course, I'm old school and played without the timer for a long time....

agreed on several points

I agree as well. But same goes for me, used to other games than VQ3 :)

Q2 players cheat with .wav timers tho :P

1 step to come back into progaming is to lick asses to progamers who r current on top.. good strategy sir

what a stupid troll

\o

jawohl !

[+]

When I see somebody jump on an item right when it spawns, I don't think "wow, that was good timing," I just think ok so he had it noted when he picked it up and he used the clock.

then you are really looking at this the wrong way. its a skill and why wouldnt you appreciate it if someone is great at timing. its fine that you find timing just be feel more enjoyable, but that doesnt make timing with a clock any less skillfull

if timing 3 items for the whole match was easy, there would be more than one cooller.

i just dont come to lans...yet

haha then what about what djwheat said, that czm can time 8 (random number? >4 probably) items at the same time? :D

doubt it

djwheat mind reader.

yeah, 8 shards. gg wp ul no-re

Well he's a math genius. '8 times' is probably a random number, but pretty sure people could do a lot if they want to, and a genius doing so much isn't impossible.

there's hardly 8 items on a duel map that would be worth timing, let alone you'd get any advantage out of actually timing them when you can't focus on them because you need to get/deny the really important ones :)

Well, I can see an advantage from timing 5-6 items on certain maps.

such as? I don't think exact timings are important for many items, and you should be able to time without the clock in a general although not so accurate way anyway. intercepting/denying is a shitload easier and possibly more helpful for most items than timing them all down to the second. e.g. there's no point to time a weapon down to the exact second when you can as well deny it with good positioning, while it might be crucial for something like ra on ztn because you expose yourself so much when you go for it.

A weapon (at least when they were on 15sec. resp. time), RA MH YA YA, a 50hp bubble and 2x 25hp bubbles at least would be useful. Not that it would change a lot now, but if there were 100k annual tournaments you would see players do that.

Knowing the exact times of health bubbles is pointless since you won't need to or be able to pick them up always so a general feel time here is fine. Knowing the exact times of weapons is nearly always pointless as well.

On a map with RA/YA/YA/MH it's often not worthwhile to time to the second on both YAs (usually RA/MH and perhaps one YA but that's pushing it).

last Ali Naab matches I was timing his deaths

counting your funnies would have been less work innit

only it was about timing not counting, this way I could say counting the number of the german idiots on esr would be a hard job, but that's not the case

doesn't matter, as long as zi german jokes are the best: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1772713#pid1772713

lol:)

Doing complex mathematical calculations in his head is like breathing for him at this point, probably 'cause he was raised to do it so naturally. Fluid intelligence, motherfuckers -- he has it.

being good in math has nothing to with being able to calculate well in your head, and even less with being able to time stuff in your head...

it has to be some connection, else if you are not able to follow simple number combinations, how can you follow complex number combinations/logical schemes?
but I don't agree czm is that good on timing many items, last year eswc proved it pretty good, or he overextended himself to the point of confusing the times

Wrong, wrong, and wrong. Math has everything to do with cognition, as noted in the description of Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences:

"Logical-mathematical

This area has to do with logic, abstractions, reasoning, and numbers. While it is often assumed that those with this intelligence naturally excel in mathematics, chess, computer programming and other logical or numerical activities, a more accurate definition places emphasis on traditional mathematical ability and more reasoning capabilities, abstract patterns of recognition, scientific thinking and investigation, and the ability to perform complex calculations. It correlates strongly with traditional concepts of "intelligence" or IQ."

yeah, but that would come more to play when you say czm is a good tactician or strategist.

timing 3 or more items has nothing or little to do with intelligence and you don't need a math genius to do it, alltho a chimp most certainly couldnt do it either.

if you really want to reduce item timing to a 'clock-style' timing, as most people are in this thread, then anybody can do it with a bit of experience since adding 2digit numbers isnt that hard.

if you're talking about timing items without a clock and in a strategical sense, you are of course right, with your intelligence, but that is another discussion, and the wrong thread

seems unlikely that a commentator would exagerate on anything player related to encrease the listening and viewing experience, OR DOES IT?

he said it on his podcast, as I said he probably said a random number but I think it isn't out of nothing.

Yeah, he never exaggerates.

oh c'mon stop bugging me, I don't really care :)

I'll make it a lot harder for you motherfuckers.

http://nquake.com/

All you need.

why would timing be hard at all for the pros?

Because, after you get over the learning curve involved with incorporating it into your game, it's not actually supposed to be "hard." That's why it's called skill, sir.

yeah why award talent when you can just play a game 9000 hours.

not really shocked you come from the same country as gillz

lol, so quick to call people dumb? You're so elitist that I think your skull has become about as thick as your ego.

All the talented players put in those long hours at some point anyways -- ask Boxer, Elky, Frod, Grubby, Toxic, or any successful player for that matter. Just like anybody else, they have to condition themselves to use their respective, essential skills reflexively (in other words, without really having to think about it). But, once they do, although it's difficult on the surface, it becomes virtually (or at least relatively) effortless for those who have mastered it.

Of course, everyone has a peak due to several factors where they're eventually unable to , which is why czm can time a boatload of items at once or rapha can think seven steps ahead (before you go nerdraging again, I'm just saying that as an example), but many others will never be able to do either of those things no matter how hard they work at it. And that's where the skill gap comes in, which makes for interesting matchups.

Do you understand what I'm getting at now, or do I actually have to dumb down this pretty simple explanation?

tl;dr

It wasn't even 200 words, you lazy, delusional Swede.

i rather read 2000 interesting words than <200 random words from some canadian

tl;dr

i rather read 2000 interesting words than <200 random words

Proof that you're the only idiot among us.

actually, it proves that he is not a msochist.

The only reason I can imagine it would be painful for him to read this is that he can't believe he has to read someone else telling him this in order to realize something so obvious.

your posts in this thread actually made me cringe

Truth hurts, don't it?

<3

Did you ever think about what "talent" even means? It is nothing you aquired through hard work or great decisions.

I fucking hate people that are proud of things they did nothing for, like looks (genes), wealth of family and so on. The more a sport depends on hard work and the less it depends on predisposition the better.

basically, the more talent the less practice you need.

True, but what I meant was effort is often wrongly valued as lesser than talent, which is twisted in my opinion. Why should talent be valued higher then effort?

When you remove the clock only the timing talented players will be good at timing while those without that talent who relied on remembering corresponding numbers instead (or however they do it) cannot compete anymore....that's not better

how about 15 sec weapon respawn? like it used to be.

so you could actually control a map, and or actually have to have skill to re-gain control.

what? people would just memorize the new timings in like 3 days. adding isnt hard. i actually think removing the timer would be interesting

Yeah I would LOVE to see ql without a timer, or a CPM style timer.

Whoah there, hang on a second! I still fucking suck at timing items, don't you even dare removing the timer!

Whoah there, dahang on a second!

i'll get your coat

btw, duelling is hard enough

how about random item spawns?

randomness in competition...makes no sense

the first quad spawns randomly in tdm... 00:30-01:00

+ the first spawns

and i think its quite dumb when everything else has a set time..

wonder if it would be better with a fixed spawn time, then you might end up with everyone just trying to drop onto it in that very second and the rest just spamming the rushers or some other idiocy. fine as it is imo as long as 2nd powerup spawns simultaneously.

I don't get how everyone fighting for the quad because it spawns at a fixed time is a bad thing. It's just another item for both teams to try and control.

*cough*netcode/spawns*cough*

Already tried random ones, and random first ones, didnt work at all. Delayed fixed first spawn in Warsow works fine to a certain dergee as weapons and positioning gained with spawn are still limiting factors (probably that would be more the case in QL).

CPM timer would be nice, and i dont think it would make new players rage too much either.

just add me fb.. i'll make dueling harder for u

/callvote simplemega 0

CPM timer + simplemega 0

Because the game shouldn't be about math.

Timing is a part of the game, as is movement, aim, prediction, etc.
I dont see why people, who have gone through hours and hours of practice, should not have the advantage.
In the end, it always depends on what decisions you make, not on how well you time RA.

Busted.

Hours and hours of practice? Disadvantage? in the end it's NOT about timing?

Make up yo dayum mind!!! ;)

boxed

I'd love to see what games looked like without a timer in QL.

I don't know about this, but can the game clock be removed from the HUD?

If so, someone should run a tournament and try this out. Just to see how it all goes down.

Obviously it would have to be taken on faith, but the risk can be removed by inviting players with integrity for an experimental tournament.

disable +back bind

-Make it harder to hit oppononent (esp for rail)
-LG too strong
-Remove timer (CPMA style)
-It's already hard enough for me :(

-LG too strong

wat

Please edit ONE more time so I understand it.

wat

EDIT:
wat

EDIT2:
wat

I just mean lg is really easy when I play online with my shit ping.

I can imagine how easy controlling the lightning gun is on lan.

Yeah but it's not too strong actually, but more like too easy to hit and deals too little damage, it should deal 7-7-7 instead of 7-6-5 I'd say.

6-6-6

or 1-1-1 would be awesome

Yes, let's make the treshold to start dueling even higher!

Doesn't really matter mate. As soon people start practising for 6-8 hours a days for months newbies don't make a chance. No way. Ask Jamerio for "Timefragger".

So there are the following options:

1. Have the talent and only play a few hours to be at the top.
2. Stop education / job and make it a full time job.

talent won't help u much if people start practising 8 hours a day.....

conclusion: Remove the Timer.
No one would complain, No one would miss it.
seems obvious to me that greater skill lies in the absence of a timer, rather than the inclusion of one.
That being said, you would need to have more announcer updates than just 5 and 1 minute warnings; 30 seconds, 10 seconds, 5,4,3,2,1 maybe

or cpmstyle, it shows minute mark, not seconds, until its 30 seconds left, so 9:xx 8:xx etc until last 30 seconds of a game which shows like 'normal'

giant advantage for the person to pick up the second last ra tbh. gamedecider

not rly? if its taken with 40 seconds left, how are you to know its taken 00:40?

No one would complain, No one would miss it.

i would, i would

just because its easier to whine about something doesnt prove that the majority of ql players would like it

you are really fucking retarded, its not the game thats supposed to be ultimately hard to play, its the players that make it hard, period.

I actually agree with you. Damnit.

seeing as per1klez agrees with you, you must be wrong.

solid logic =D

I cant understand why anyone would want to remove the timer.

I cant time for shit, can just about manage to time a megahealth but no other items, same boat as mefajpe really. But i AM impressed when i see people that CAN time items like the pros.

Its something i am trying to learn to do and incorporate into my game, it is a skill.

Fail to see how randomly guessing at a number is considered more skillful, because thats what your 'have a feeling' is.

Not everyone can time items, and it adds another dimension to the game that you arent required to do anymore than learning to move well around the maps with the various jumps.

Its something you can do to advance your gameplay and go that bit further to distinguish yourself from the majority of the playerbase. Having a timer like cpma just adds some random element into the game and only benefits the people that cant time properly.

fail to see how adding numbers is more skillful than making an estimation of time based on the information you get from your surroundings

crouchslide
faster gamespeed
smaller hitboxes

The game is a joke considering people with a IQ of 5 get kills by chasing you as a retard.

ahahhahahah owned

Previously played CoD for teams such as Serious Gaming and Team EDiT.

What's owned about that? I'm the one who actually achieved something... never seen you winning Quakecon/IEM or whatever ;)

in his defence, never seen you win anything either

"What's owned about that? I'm the one who actually achieved something*...
never seen you winning Quakecon/IEM** or whatever ;)"

Previous quote :
"The game is a joke*** considering people with a IQ of 5**** get kills by chasing you as
a retard*****"

*1st @ poo competition @ serious business
**YEP I'M SO SRY MAN I'M NOT FATAL1TY I SHOULD SUICIDE
***CoD
****YEP MAN I'M SO SRY I'M NOT EINSTEIN NOR A COD PLAYER, THIS IS SAD ISN'T IT ?
*****YEP MAN I'M SRY I DUNNO HOW TO PLAY WITH THE FANTASTIC RAIL AND HOW
TO MAKE "5 STEPS AHEAD" PLANS @ RAPHA TO WIN A GAME LIKE A REAL SMART
COD PLAYER

waaaait a second

what the fuck is this timer you speak of?

I don't want to go OT, but I see everybody talking about math and I have a question.

Are you really telling me that the pros still have to do the computation while they play? What?

It's only 60 additions: You learn them by heart the same way you learnt multiplications tables at school. No need to waste brain cortex on it then...

No?

no, the opposite, im saying exactly what you just pointed out, anyone who has played the game for 8 years+ will know this by heart

Some people like to imagine you need to be a maths genius to time items in Quake and that if they are able to time using a clock they must be really good at maths.