ESR - czm -vs- cooller

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Demo

czm -vs- cooller (96 comments)

( Demo: Q3)

Posted by rupertt @ 21:45 CST, 2 January 2010 - iMsg




	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10
Rating: 9.3 (6 votes)

Gametype: Duel
Map: Various Maps
Mod: OSP
Viewpoint: CZM519
How to play back Q3 demos

>> 73275-czm-vs-cooller.zip <<
(4365KB, 494 DLs)

czm vs cooller

Oldschool demo from QLAN2 back in 2004 I believe, not sure.

Intense game, especially ztn.

Maps:
ztn
pt4
cpm1a

Enjoy.

Edited by x1138 at 08:16 CST, 3 January 2010 - 20323 Hits

<< Comment #1 @ 01:54 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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Shardik

First fail post of 2010 ? The link not work here ;)

<< Comment #2 @ 02:28 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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terrorhead

cooller best player ever

<< Comment #3 @ 04:16 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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d1z :

Not Found
The requested URL /files/demos/2010/73256-czm-vs-cooller.zip was not found on this server.

<< Comment #4 @ 05:48 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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rupertt

That sucked :(
will try and upload again

<< Comment #5 @ 06:49 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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Gama_Sennin

Damn, it still doesn't work :/

<< Comment #6 @ 07:11 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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rupertt

should be fixed now I was told

Edited by x1138 at 08:17 CST, 3 January 2010

<< Comment #7 @ 08:47 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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Shardik

Ok, thx

<< Comment #8 @ 09:10 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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mammon

cooller best player ever

<< Comment #9 @ 12:35 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #8

fat<z4<cooller<czm<cypher<rapha

sry

<< Comment #10 @ 13:32 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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mammon - Reply to #9

COOLLER BEST PLAYER EVER

<< Comment #11 @ 14:40 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #10

w/e :)

<< Comment #12 @ 16:31 CST, 3 January 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #11

COOLLER: BEST PLAYER EVER

Edited by iNkind at 16:32 CST, 3 January 2010

<< Comment #13 @ 18:53 CST, 4 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #12

if tourneys won are the criteria, he fails. if being better than old champion is the criteria, he fails again, cause newer champions are better than him.

but definitely great to spec.

cheers! :)

<< Comment #14 @ 19:53 CST, 4 January 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #13

cba so...

COOLLER: BEST PLAYER EVER

<< Comment #15 @ 12:30 CST, 5 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #14

i respect your fanboism, we're both pissed when he fails for years and years... :)

<< Comment #16 @ 13:01 CST, 5 January 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #15

z4suxlol

Edited by iNkind at 13:01 CST, 5 January 2010

<< Comment #17 @ 14:05 CST, 5 January 2010 >>

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rupertt - Reply to #16

z4 has achieved more than cooller.

<< Comment #19 @ 21:47 CST, 5 January 2010 >>

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bsk - Reply to #17

Z4 has won the most big Quake 3 tournaments, but many of them were bo1(early Quakecons) or with a less competitive field. I'm not saying he's not one of the greatest players ever -- indeed, he comes in second -- but number one spot has to go to Cooller. A few more reasons:

1. He has the second-highest number of major tournament wins, one fewer than z4.

2. He won ESWC 2003, which was the highest level tournament in Quake history with the fairest tournament system, beating z4 in the final.

3. He won all his games at ESWC 2004, but was denied the overall victory due to weaker teammates. This would've brought him equal with z4 in number of major wins.

4. His period of dominance was the longest in real time.

5. Your lg is nothink on the lan.

<< Comment #20 @ 21:59 CST, 5 January 2010 >>

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Bartender - Reply to #19

don't forget cooller played quake 4 and z4 couldn't

<< Comment #22 @ 22:15 CST, 5 January 2010 >>

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bsk - Reply to #20

I was deliberately leaving out Quake 4 - if we include this, there's obviously no contest between Cooller and z4, but then Toxic comes into play and complicates things.

<< Comment #24 @ 14:59 CST, 6 January 2010 >>

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rupertt - Reply to #20

q4 was a major flop. nuff said.
But if we're absolutely gonna bring in other games, Fatal1ty beats everybody.
What was it? 6 different games?

edit: it's 10 different games btw.

Nobody came even close.

Edited by x1138 at 18:18 CST, 6 January 2010

<< Comment #27 @ 18:11 CST, 6 January 2010 >>

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mat- - Reply to #24

wombat? dkt?

<< Comment #39 @ 18:59 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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rupertt - Reply to #27

sure, give me the list.

<< Comment #40 @ 19:13 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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mat- - Reply to #39

wombat

as you can see that list was last updated 2006, he also won some stuff with EG on cod4 in 2008 and 2009.
and

<< Comment #41 @ 20:12 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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rupertt - Reply to #40

that's a nice list, but like I said it's nowhere near fat's merrits.

<< Comment #42 @ 21:13 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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mat- - Reply to #41

If you dont count the "shitty" games (cod, pk, avp, doom, fear, etc) then dkt has probably won more than fat. But if you do count those games, then wombat has probably more titles than fat. Its a pretty close call, and fat might even be the best, by I wouldnt say its "not even close".

<< Comment #43 @ 22:51 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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rupertt - Reply to #42

Close call? I don't think so.

Fat Stats:

2006
1st - Championship Gaming Invitational (Quake 4) - Santa Monica, CA
2nd � WSVG Finals (Quake 4) � New York, NY USA
2nd - Rage Expo (Quake 4) - Johannesburg, South Africa
4th � WSVG Stop-Lanwars (Quake 4) � Louisville, KY USA
4th � WSVG Intel Summer Championship (Quake 4) � Dallas, TX USA
2nd - St. Louis Invitational (Quake 4) - St. Louis, MO USA

2005
1st - CPL Singapore World Tour Stop (PainkilleR) - Singapore, Indonesia
1st - CPL USA World Tour Stop (PainkilleR) - Dallas, TX
1st � CPL World Tour Finals (PainkilleR) � New York City, NY
2nd - CPL Turkey Qualifier for Spain (PainkilleR) - Istanbul, Turkey
2nd - CPL Brazil World Tour Stop (PainkilleR) - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
2nd - CPL Sweden World Tour Stop (PainkilleR) - Jonkoping, Sweden
4th - CPL Turkey World Tour Stop (PainkilleR) - Istanbul, Turkey
5th � CPL Chile World Tour Stop (PainkilleR) � Santiago, Chile
6th - CPL Spain World Tour Stop (PainkilleR) - Barcelona, Spain

2004
1st - QuakeCON2004 (DOOM3) - Grapevine, TX
1st - Salina LAN (Unreal Tournament 2003 - 6v6 - Onslaught) - Salina, KS
1st - Salina LAN (Counter-Strike) - Salina, KS
1st - IonGAMERS (Call of Duty) - Online
2nd - CPL Cyberathlete EXTREME World Championships (PainkilleR) - Dallas, TX
3rd - CPL Extreme Winter Championships (PainkilleR) - Dallas, TX
4th - E-Sports World Cup (PainkilleR) - Poiters, France

2003
1st - MWGL (Quake 3) - Kansas City, MO
1st - MWGL (Unreal Tournament 2003) - Kansas City, MO
1st - NGL (Unreal Tournament 2003) - Kansas City, MO
1st - University of Texas (Unreal Tournament 2003) - Dallas, TX
1st - MWGL (Unreal Tournament 2003) - Kansas City, MO
3rd - E-Sports World Cup (Unreal Tournament 2003) - Poiters, France
3rd - World Cyber Games USA (Unreal Tournament 2003) - Irvine, CA

2002
1st - Million Man Lan (Quake 3) - Louisville, KY
1st - CPL Winter Qualifier (Unreal Tournament 2003) - Pleasant Hill, CA
1st - CPL Winter (Unreal Tournament 2003) - Dallas, TX
3rd - QuakeCON2002 (Quake 3) - Mystique, TX
4th - World Cyber Games USA (Quake 3) - New York City, NY

2001
1st - Resurrection 2 TEM (Quake 3) - Online
1st - CPL Australia (Quake 3) - Melbourne, Australia
1st - CPL Winter (Aliens VS Predator 2) - Dallas, TX
2nd - CPL Brazil (Quake 3) - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
2nd - QuakeCON2001 (Quake 3) - Mystique, TX
3rd - CPL Holland (Quake 3) - Amsterdam, Netherlands

2000
1st - Resurrection 1 (Quake 3 - clan Kapitol) - Online
1st - Eastern Quake League (Quake 3 - clan Kapitol) - Online
1st - Spring Survival (Quake 3) - clan Kapitol) - Online
1st - LanWar6 (Quake 3) - Louisville, KY
1st - XSi (Quake 3) - Stockholm, Sweden
1st - DMCON2000 (Quake 3) - Des Moines, IA
1st - Cyber-Arena (Quake 3) - Pleasant Hill, CA
1st - CPL Razer (Quake 3) - Dallas, TX
1st - QuestCON (Quake 3) - St. Louis, MO
1st - QuakeCON2000 DreamCast Console (Quake 3) - Mystique, TX
1st - BattleTOP Universal Studios (Quake 3) - Los Angeles, CA
1st - World Cyber Games 2000 (Quake 3) - Seoul, South Korea
1st - CPL Cologne (Quake 3) - Cologne, Germany
7th - CPL Babbages (Quake 3) - Dallas, TX

1999
1st - CPL Frag3 Qualifier (Quake 3) - Dallas, TX
3rd - CPL Frag3 Finals (Quake 3) - Dallas, TX

1998
1st - OverDrive Quake (Quake 2) - Warrensburg, MO

1996
1st - DiscoveryNet #1 (Quake 1) - Blue Springs, MO
1st - Feist Midwest Frag (Quake 1) - Witchita, KS
1st - DiscoveryNet #2 (Quake 1) - Blue Springs, MO

Team Achievements
2004
Win - Cyber X Games: inevitable Fate (Fatal1ty's Team) vs Forsaken (Counter Strike) - Las Vegas

2003
1st - Houston Lan Center (Counter-Strike) - Houston, TX
1st - Lethal Gamers (Counter-Strike) - Dallas, TX
1st - NetZone (Counter-Strike) - College Station, TX
2nd - Lethal Gamers (Counter-Strike) - Dallas, TX

2002
1st - Million Man Lan (Return to Castle Wolfenstein - 5v5) - Louisville, KY
1st - Resurrection 2 TDM (Quake 3) - Online

2001
1st - QIL4 TDM (Quake 3) - St. Louis, MO
1st - Knightmare Invitational League TDM (Quake 3) - Online

2000
1st - CPL Frag4 TDM (Quake 3 - clan Kapitol) - Dallas, TX
1st - BattleTOP NYC TDM (Quake 3 - clan Kapitol) - New York City, NY

1999
1st - CPL Frag3 TDM (Quake 3) - Dallas, TX

I count 37 1v1 titles and 11 team game titles.

Compared to wombats 19 titles 1v1 and team based and dkt's 9, I would still claim it to be not even close.

<< Comment #44 @ 03:16 CST, 8 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #43

except you fail to realize that fat is the type of person who lists every 4 people LAN in a village in Montana as a title, and wombat and dkt aren't. (e.g. University of Texas (Unreal Tournament 2003) \o/)

You are also not counting wombat's achievement post 2006.

Fat is better in duel than wombat, but wombat is better in team games.

<< Comment #45 @ 19:47 CST, 10 January 2010 >>

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char - Reply to #40

dkt also won the first MML (million man lan) UT99 tournament.. won like $1000 bucks, beat players like ace and undertow

<< Comment #38 @ 17:56 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #24

It wasn't a flop at all, the game has a few 100k put into it and plenty of players were playing 24/7.

Cooller included.

<< Comment #23 @ 06:38 CST, 6 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #19

quakecon winner
quakecon winner
quakecon winner
quakecon finalist
quakecon finalist
world cyber games winner
cpl champion
eswc finalist
eswc finalist

ball mouse.

bow down, shut up.

<< Comment #26 @ 17:21 CST, 6 January 2010 >>

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bsk - Reply to #23

I assume you're joking about the ball mouse (that it matters in any way).

Keep my point about bo1 Quakecons in mind and re-read your list.

<< Comment #33 @ 08:35 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #26

ah yeah sorry, there were 50 bo3 tournaments from 99-2003 he didn't want to attend.

oh wait, there weren't.

you should just bow tbh.

<< Comment #36 @ 09:02 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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bsk - Reply to #33

That's the point - one reason Cooller wins is that his dominance came at a time when the tournaments were better designed.

<< Comment #37 @ 14:51 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #36

cooller didnt do shit since 2k5, wake up. he had a comeback in 2008 and failed at every single group stage. that's "group stage". and pls spare me the "he didn't care" crap. we've seen his reaction to cypher's telefrag, he cared, a lot. gamegune = fail. eswc masters = fail. eswc finals = fail. spartie slapped him without problems, while cypher dominated. afterwards rapha won everything. cooller won 2 eswc's, with 2 bo3 losses at each of them. that's hardly domination. he attended wcg, failed. he attended cpl, didn't make it to the finals.

and in the end, 2 majors are just 2 majors.

compare it to the list of zero4, out of which every single tournament is international tournament, except qcon2000, which was held probably before euros became good. don't think polosatiy was that much better at the time than z4's rivals there. everything was bo1 DE for years and years, and its just...well...retarded to call those easy tournaments. check out the names first. especially @ cpl babbages.

<< Comment #46 @ 21:27 CST, 10 January 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #37

and z4 didn't make an attempt at a comeback in 2008? what happened to him then? that's right, this. :)

it all started here and cooller's been better than him ever since. "cooller zero4" gives me about 6 matches on this site out of which zero4 has won... none. (there's a PT4 demo from CXG that z4 wins but cooller still took the other 2 maps)

<< Comment #48 @ 11:44 CST, 11 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #46

wow, is that a link to the match where zero4 needed one map to kick cooller out of the tournament, and this being the third and irrelevant map?

you're clearly missing the point of taking "vs" for best ever question.

cypher also has 2 eswc (and both were stacked more than eswc 2k5), and was beating cooller on daily basis since 2k7, so therefore cypher is the best?

sorry.

also, zero4 in 2k8 > quakecon final, irrelevant quakecon ctf title, *2nd* group stage on both masters and san jose.

unlike a certain fascinating individual.

Edited by Lethe at 11:48 CST, 11 January 2010

<< Comment #49 @ 13:46 CST, 11 January 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #48

yeah zero4 clearly lost ztn only because it was irrelevant :/ what about all the other times when the games did matter?

nothing wrong in bringing "vs" into the picture when we're comparing cooller and zero4 as they are the only real contenders for the title of best of all time. the facts show us that after cooller burst onto the scene, zero4 couldn't beat him (with the exception of qcon 04 where it was hub only). he was definitely close behind but cooller managed to come out on top.

cypher's not even in the picture. he had one good year. both cooller and z4 had dominated Q3 for much longer than he did.

qcon 08 finals was at a time when many players including cooller weren't even playing Quake Live. that's like bringing up cooller's 3rd place at Dreamhack after z4 stopped playing. the rest of 2k8 was the only year z4 consistently outperformed cooller when it came to tournament placing but even then, he lost to him the one time they played each other. it wasn't exactly a stellar year for either of the two players. both of them have played much better in the past.

<< Comment #50 @ 13:57 CST, 11 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #49

nothing wrong in bringing "vs" into the picture when we're comparing cooller and zero4 as they are the only real contenders for the title of best of all time. the facts show us that after cooller burst onto the scene, zero4 couldn't beat him (with the exception of qcon 04 where it was hub only). he was definitely close behind but cooller managed to come out on top.

its like this.

first, you compare the list which i posted up on one side with coollers 2 majors + qlan (that featured euros only) on the other.

then, you'll notice that they played each other in a FINAL only once, and one frag prevailed.

even last eswc match ended with a 1 frag game on ztn.

fact is, every single matchup they had could have been over after 2 games with a 2:0 score in favour of each player.

then you go back to the notable achievements list.

and if you want to use "vs" to prove something, why couldn't i? the tournaments cypher won were as strong as eswc2k3, and stronger in comparison to 2k5, by far, while cypher seemed much more dominating in his eswc wins than cooller did in his eswc wins. cooller lost twice on each. to that, when he brought his game to the top, he proved to be better than cooller in q3a, every time.

on the other hand, if you don't wanna use "vs", you're left with the mentioned list.

<< Comment #53 @ 02:32 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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spyteman - Reply to #50

dude, qlz > z4 and I'm even a fan of z4. get over it. B<

<< Comment #54 @ 02:47 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #50

I think the biggest reason cooller didn't beat z4 earlier is the age.

The comparison with cypher is something different and hasn't got anything to do with z4.

Both you are also not considering the different playerstyles. Some players play better against some styles, than against others. For example cooller, being the most internationally successful Russian for some time, but still sometimes having a hard time at home against Russians, who in turn couldn't do much on an international level.

<< Comment #55 @ 05:04 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #54

it doesn't matter who beats who. who wins what is what matters.

yeah that sounds strange.

anyways cooller attended also wcg and cpl. and quakecon. its not like he didn't get a chance to win as much.

<< Comment #56 @ 05:35 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #55

yap but he was quite young at his first tournaments, wasn't he?

<< Comment #57 @ 05:37 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #56

his first tournaments were wcg and eswc? and he won eswc, lost wcg by a single frag.

regardless of his age, he was up there with the others. and i personally think he was in his best form in 2003.

<< Comment #58 @ 05:45 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #57

well, maybe being a bit older would have won him the WCG or made his wins over z4 a bit more decisive. Who knows.

<< Comment #59 @ 06:05 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #58

he was old enough to let an anonymous canadian beat him to kick zero4 out, no?

<< Comment #60 @ 06:13 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #59

that's a pretty easy to do tactical decision without time pressure.

I'd say every second 15 year old is capable of that one...

<< Comment #61 @ 06:15 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #60

yeah was really mature, but the fucked up karma comes back in form of certain telefrags and things like those, right?

<< Comment #64 @ 06:56 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #61

right on :D

Just the the same when Cypher seems to have tried the same thing at the IEM when he "lost" to qrebo (no offense), so z4muz got 3rd. And now z4muz gets invited anyway and qrebo got the Euros for winning that game :D

<< Comment #65 @ 07:03 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #64

i don't really think cypher lost that one on purpose though, xrebzy played really well, it was overtime if i recall correctly. and he owned z4muz in vs 2:0 easily, on the other hand cooller dropped cause he was afraid. and most of the wcg2k2 was t4+ztn afterwards...

cooller vs ni3 featured an obvious i-go-up-the-jumppad-kill-me-please move :D

...if my memory still works...

<< Comment #67 @ 07:13 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #65

qrebo lost his iem match versus z4muz, or are you talking about another match?
He did win one map though, which is way cypher had the opportunity to throw z4muz out.
I don't think I saw the match between qrebo and cypher, but I do believe cypher is the person who would consider doing this. But yeah, it isn't certain, which is why I wrote "seems" in my first statement.

<< Comment #68 @ 07:33 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #67

no, i mean cypher owned z4muz in groupstage, easily, so i doubt he would want him out so bad to drop a game

<< Comment #70 @ 07:43 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #68

ah ok.

pretty sure I did see the z4muz and cypher game and that it wasn't so easy (6-4 om dm13). Plus it happened not that long ago after z4muz really came back, so there was room for improvement.

I don't know, I just don't really believe that it was a coincidence that cypher lost to a much weaker opponent exactly in such a way that it would�result in the elimination of a good opponeent.

<< Comment #71 @ 07:44 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #70

well cypher is a cunt, but still his ego is probably above throwing matches. dunno.

<< Comment #73 @ 07:51 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #71

so we both agree that we don't know.

hooray :D

<< Comment #74 @ 07:54 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #73

yeah, on cypher part.

you offtopiced me to death

<< Comment #75 @ 07:57 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #74

well there other part was already kinda finished.

<< Comment #77 @ 08:02 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #75

hm. i don't remember what it was. i think it's about cooller supposedly being not old enough to dominate zero4, but being mature cunt enough to throw a match, like cypher maybe did or maybe didn't!

<< Comment #78 @ 08:09 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #77

yes, pretty much like that, but a bit more like "cooller might still not have been at the top of his game because of his age".

<< Comment #79 @ 08:20 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #78

that's a fair statement. still he had like 7/10 spawnkills on that t2 vs z4 so the luck part compensated the lack of experience.

Edited by Lethe at 08:21 CST, 12 January 2010

<< Comment #83 @ 04:01 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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Sa1Nt_ - Reply to #71

why exactly is Cypher a cunt? seems like a nice guy to me, he's still a kid though, so cut him some slack :)

<< Comment #84 @ 04:16 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #83

He probably is a nice guy until he gets owned. Must be tough for him to deal with the fact, that he's not godlike anymore, like he was in early 2008. And it results in incidents like the rage vs spartie in Athens (he said "proud?" and ragequitted) or vs jibo on asus online ( http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&...pid1695427).

Edited by Valvalis at 04:17 CST, 14 January 2010

<< Comment #85 @ 04:24 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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Sa1Nt_ - Reply to #84

I understand that, however, I don't think anyone is immune to rage when they can't perform as they usually do :) I just ignore that.. If someone gets a bit nervous due to circumstances, it doesn't mean he's a cunt :)

<< Comment #86 @ 05:39 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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valvalis - Reply to #85

not if he does it all the time...

<< Comment #89 @ 06:40 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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Sa1Nt_ - Reply to #86

Well, i probably missed that then :) Jibo was dissing him earlier as "only rail" player, so I guess he got what he deserved ;)

<< Comment #82 @ 11:04 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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lewl - Reply to #65

accidental plus :((((

<< Comment #62 @ 06:44 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #50

yup, cooller wasn't even on the scene when z4 won qcon 2k and 2k1.

so what if it was only one final? they played each other many other times and all of those games were important enough too.

every single match could have been over 2:0 but the fact is that it didn't happen. cooller won most of the times they played each other. "could have" is pointless really. i'd say cooller could have easily won Qcon 04 if it wasn't bo1 and hub. even at CXG, he looked to be the guy on top... beating zero4 (and elpa iirc). too bad they didn't finish the tournament.

as for cypher in 2k8, everyone thought he had the potential to become the best player of all time. too bad he couldn't go on for much longer. it's much harder to maintain top form over many years and that's why i included only cooller and zero4 in contention. imo, cooller and z4 are at the top with czm and cypher just behind them (i'd include rapha but he's won most of his stuff in QL not Q3).

<< Comment #63 @ 06:49 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #62

i'd say cooller could have easily won Qcon 04 if it wasn't bo1 and hub.

if it wasn't? lol. it was, and it was 50 frag difference.

even at CXG, he looked to be the guy on top... beating zero4

t4 1 frag, ztn 1 frag. and seriously, cxg never finished. if winning wb final means winning the tournament, then zero4 won quakecon 2k4 too.

fact is, new champion is always better than the one before. simple as that, thats why vs is irrelevant to me.

<< Comment #66 @ 07:04 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #63

i know it was. i never said z4's win vs cooller at qcon wasn't a legit win. i brought it up because you brought up "could haves".

cooller has still beaten him more times when both of them were playing at their best..

judging by that, luckily for z4, they didn't finish CXG.

<< Comment #69 @ 07:34 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #66

cxg had 50-50 chances, just like eswc 2003.

and 2003 wasn't the best from zero4, he didn't do anything in 2002. his best was 2001.

Edited by Lethe at 07:35 CST, 12 January 2010

<< Comment #72 @ 07:49 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #69

50/50 when he had to win 2 bo3s in a row against someone he's never won a bo3 against? i think not.

also he was playing just as good as 2001 at eswc 2k3.

<< Comment #76 @ 07:59 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #72

lets see.

cxg>
1st map: zero4 wins t4 by one frag, could have gone either way.
2nd map: cooller wins ztn by one frag, could have gone either way.

that's not 50-50?

eswc>
1st map: zero4 wins t4 by one frag, wasn't that close though.
2nd map: cooller wins ztn by one frag, was anyone's game.

that's not 50-50?

he went through 2001 undefeated, that's when he was at his best. cpl, wcg, quakecon. that's domination, not these 2 losses per tourney thingies.

Edited by Lethe at 08:01 CST, 12 January 2010

<< Comment #80 @ 08:20 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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ashr - Reply to #76

lol z4 had to win 4 maps totally to win CXG. wait, make that 6 because he had to get through elpajuo in the LB final first. cooller needed 2 in any 1 set. you're also forgetting the decider maps in both games where cooller won rather comfortably. that's not 50/50!

bo1s with most of the player base far behind his level. not top3, top 8. also less number of maps to win to claim the title. the skill gaps became much smaller in the later years... not to mention the overall skill level of players went way up. rapha lost plenty of games in 2009, even a tournament although it was very very close. nobody denies that he dominated 2009. the same with cypher in 2008.

<< Comment #81 @ 08:35 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #80

you're also forgetting the decider maps in both games where cooller won rather comfortably. that's not 50/50!

there's my post somewhere up there which says that every matchup could have been over after 2 maps. decider is irrelevant, if the match is over with 2:0 clean result.

bo1s with most of the player base far behind his level. not top3, top 8. also less number of maps to win to claim the title.

those players who are far behind his level are lakerman, fatal1ty, and alike. players who were on the same level as lets say polosat1y, who was the #1 in russia, and basically taught unkind lexer and cooller how to play the game. those are the legends of quake, not some fucking noobs if you haven't noticed.

the skill gaps became much smaller in the later years... not to mention the overall skill level of players went way up. rapha lost plenty of games in 2009, even a tournament although it was very very close. nobody denies that he dominated 2009. the same with cypher in 2008.

dude, lakerman, fatal1ty and a couple more, those guys were the very top of quake. skill gap between them at the time is probably the same as between rapha spartie cypher in 2008. you act like zero4 was there basically all alone taking titles from noobs.

Edited by Lethe at 08:36 CST, 12 January 2010

<< Comment #87 @ 06:31 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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dansen - Reply to #63

its called conditional and most languages have it.
smartup

<< Comment #88 @ 06:32 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #87

could have =/= would have

<< Comment #91 @ 06:52 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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dansen - Reply to #88

...if it wasn't bo1 and hub.

as in:
"if it had been something else"

as in:
"if it would have been something else"

<< Comment #92 @ 06:54 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #91

then what, we'd have more 1-frag games?

seriously, yesterday i may have been in the mood for this, you're too late.

<< Comment #93 @ 06:59 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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dansen - Reply to #92

also i have misread your post, just scimmed through this, didnt even know your point of view :D

<< Comment #94 @ 07:14 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #91

did you just first talk about conditional and then proceed to use would in an if-clause? O.o

<< Comment #95 @ 07:18 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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dansen - Reply to #94

it surely is a condition, be it some verb or an if clause.

what i thought had happened was that lethe misread the quote and understood that it infact WASN'T hub and bo1, and thus answering:

if it wasn't? lol. it was, ...

but i was out of context and he was just underlining the point he had been trying to make all along.

<< Comment #96 @ 07:26 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

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becks - Reply to #95

I understood that, I just had to fulfill my need to grammar troll, i.e. "would" must not be used in an if-clause ;)

<< Comment #28 @ 18:24 CST, 6 January 2010 >>

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ini - Reply to #23

Apparently nobody else cares about this argument than us two :(

<< Comment #34 @ 08:37 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #28

no! there's this bsk guy!

i have to reveal the truth to him! :D

<< Comment #25 @ 15:39 CST, 6 January 2010 >>

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rupertt - Reply to #19

awww, fuck all of you. NOBODY beats this, cry all you want, pussys...

http://wiki.gotfrag.com/index.php/Fatal1ty

EAT IT !!

<< Comment #32 @ 03:43 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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amOKchen - Reply to #25

But last time he placed first in something, that was worth something to quakers, was 2000 :p

<< Comment #35 @ 08:49 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #32

he did play the finals vs the king of quake in 2001!

<< Comment #21 @ 22:04 CST, 5 January 2010 >>

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vedic - Reply to #17

Z4 gets the achievement for most losses to walter.

<< Comment #18 @ 14:55 CST, 5 January 2010 >>

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Lethe - Reply to #16

z4 = king of quake

<< Comment #29 @ 19:09 CST, 6 January 2010 >>

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Bartender

http://wiki.gotfrag.com/images/a/aa/Fatal1ty001.jpg

<< Comment #30 @ 02:47 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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terrorhead

MY FAVOURITE PLAYER > YOUR FUCKING FAVOURITE PLAYER

<< Comment #31 @ 02:48 CST, 7 January 2010 >>

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terrorhead

ALSO WALTER > Z4

<< Comment #51 @ 15:08 CST, 11 January 2010 >>

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rupertt - Reply to #31

YOUR TROLLING > MY TROLLING

<< Comment #52 @ 02:08 CST, 12 January 2010 >>

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terrorhead - Reply to #51

Actually that was a terrible troll attempt. I'll do better next time I promise.

<< Comment #47 @ 03:26 CST, 11 January 2010 >>

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weltschmerz

Alltimes we try to find reasons.

<< Comment #90 @ 06:45 CST, 14 January 2010 >>

(Link, Reply)

raithza

The game on ZTN is one of the top 5 best of all time. OF ALL TIME

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