didnt look at it yet, but I think an additional room would help dm20 a lot

well maybe, but as i said, we wont mess with the layout, once you started, it wont end. Could do a new map instead :)

haha

These are simple changes that id could do very quickly. They would improve the map for TDM.

Plus do dm12tmp

I really like the quad placement, would make for some epic battles :) I'll check out the pk3 once I get back on the desktop!

cmon ppl, where are all the dm20 haters? I know that not many ppl like it, so this is the chance to get it changed as there aint any problems with rights etc. If we aint getting new maps, lets 'fix' the one we have, dm20 wont get superl33t, it is as it is, but its way better like this. Removing the teles gave way more structure, Quad finally has a nice area.
Would you like to see those changes in QL or do you like the Original better?
Its chosen in the most cups as map 4 and i guess we ll have to play it for some more seasons, so i guess its worth discussing.

i still can't believe they didn't put in your tdm map, did they ever get back to you really with it? that map is awesome

Don't think so no. Typical id.

They won't even do a q3dm12tmp item layout, a layout that has already been proven to be at the very least acceptable.

erm, this isn't news.

i approve, this would make for a much more interesting map

although, it sucks because it's not like id will alter the map -- look at dm7, if they moved the rail back to where it was the map would become more structured again. i brought that up to them back when i was in the focus channel a few times and was ignored each time, in fact that was why i stopped offering my opinion - it wasn't even met with reasoned debate, just ignored instead. that's just one tiny change and it just means they need to swallow their pride but they can't do that it seems. also like-wise with putting the shaft back where it was on dm6.

I liked the dm6 change at first as it seemed to even the map out a bit, but in fact it just makes it all FFA with no real area of any tactical advantage to that of another. Red is such a basic tactic to hold now and isn't even that important to actually win and nobody EVER goes to the plasma room.

DM7 has zero focus as in reality its just a flat no-design map that only worked because of the unique style it used to have. Now it is just run about a bit and win with quads.

the problems of ffa on dm6 are mainly due to a few things i think. SG is really strong - it lessens the advantage of controlling shaft or rail. you can just get dropped an SG or find one lying around and do so much damage with it, it's kinda stupid honestly. if SG is going to be such a dominating weapon, they should at least change the armour system so it's more resistant to bullets or something, but that's such a huge change that they are better off just making the spread wider.

the shafts positioning would be better under RA as well because it's a strong weapon and it's a counter to the railers on mid-level..but with sg..again who cares, SG has better average dps than shaft, rl and rail on dm6. also most fights are close range enough on dm6 to make it so that you will generally hit 80%+ of your pellets. this isn't technically ql's fault..because essentially that stuff can be fixed by mappers like yellack and akuma who made a really nice map for ql imo. it's just that dm6 doesn't fit with the weapon balance at all - i'm not sure even if dm7 was fixed if it would actually be good either (though definitely better than it is now).

in fact, i'm sure that the railgun on dm7, should the rail get switched back, wouldn't even be a primary area anymore now its damage is weakened. quad shotgun is so super strong that if they switched the railgun back, 4 RA'd guys with rails would lose a fight in the RA room vs the quad guy and his team.

imo this tells us that the weapon balance needs some changes to be suitable for 4on4. although with some better maps like yellack and akumas it could be a non-issue. personally i don't think dm6 is up to the task of being a 4on4 map anymore with the current SG strength.

in summary:

the lack of weapon tiering, the weakness of armours and the poor map design is what makes it FFA.

sg is too strong - solution = wider spread
no weapon drop - solution = maybe ammo packs can be encorporated instead?

if these things were fixed, I think dm6 and dm7 (if it had the rail switched back) would actually work fine..but then again who knows. just my opinion.

suggestion: if you've given up with id software like myself, play qw 4on4 if you want 4on4 with real depth and teamplay mechanics !!!!!!!!!!
:EEEEEEE

Where can I play QW these days? :)

you need :

http://user.interface.org.nz/~trelane/quake/id1/PAK1.PAK
http://nquake.com/download_win32.html

^ nquake is like a package that installs a bunch of nice stuff, not only the ezquake client but better textures, etcetc.

then #qwrookie on irc. EQL 11 signups are going to appear in the next few weeks i should think, you can mostly likely find a rookie team and play with them or you can just spectate the div2 and div1 players which is also nice using http://qtv.quakeworld.nu

thanks :)

I've said this about a thousand times but the problem is the maps are loaded with Shotguns and SG ammo and the SG is designed for Duel faggots like Noctis.

Is it any surprise that the map least affected by SG is dm14?

It's totally retarded to have [i]two[i] shotguns on any map in such easy to access positions.

This should sort DM6 out a little bit (based on current positions):
- LG @ PG
- SG @ PG
- PG's @ SG's

DM7 already has two PGs and an LG would make it even worse so...:
- RG @ RA SG
- SG @ RA PG
- PG @ MH
- PG @ Dungeon
- SG @ Quad

sounds like the easist 'fix' for tdm is more about a whole new map pool than balancing with game changes.
although dm20 suggests they either need more focus on tdm or different mappers to make a good pool.

They must have a lucky-dip of crap ideas for each update :/

are they even updating ANYTHING anymore?

cg_enemySockColor <0xRRGGBBAA> in the next update :)

LOL

Bravo! Bravo!

Edit: On the serious side, I keep checking the dev blog and I havent' seen anything in awhile... wth?

Edit: On the serious side, I keep checking the dev blog and I havent' seen anything in awhile... wth?

I think everyone is thinking the same thing...

any updates on this project? :)

nah, dont think the map will be played in the near future, so it aint worth it :>