How about letting the fragged player choose what spawn? They should have a box and it say 'close or far' (from death) Then you can choose the spawn - you get until the respawn time cools to decide, if not it does random spawn.

The player that killed you has to think a bit more like 'where will this bastard choose??' and rush to a close or far away spawn..
(duel only)

It could add a new element to the game or maybe i'm just a cunt!

any thoughts?

For TDM it should be CPMA vq3 style spawns and stuff..

The easiest fix would be to just give new spawned players 2 seconds of haste combined with .5 second invincibility (to help with plasma/rail off spawn from afar).

It would make spawn killing much less appealing, but it would still be possible.

Like I keep saying, if something is imbalanced for one then its true for the other. So by definition, its actually balanced.

I end up saying this everytime...

In my opinion this isn't about trying to prevent or lessen the occurrence of spawn fragging, it's about preventing spawn manipulation.

Just because you can spawn frag your opponent doesn't mean the spawn system is bad.

I think there should always be a possibility of a spawn frag even down to the last millisecond of a game. It's makes games really exciting if a player unexpectedly ties up a game at the very end. Some people might think that's cheap, but I disagree.

Players create their luck. Knowledge of the spawn system is skill, having a strong enough weapon ready to spawn frag someone in the last second takes skill, and being only 1 frag behind at the last second, instead of 2 also takes skill.

My suggestion encapsualtes that.

Think about it. Players generally try and force spawns to kill the opponent before they can get to a decent weapon or get stacked on something. Otherwise, there is no point to spawn killing, its just game on as usual and suicide or aggressive play.

If there is a smaller chance of them doing that due to the enhanced movement/firing speed then they won't do it.

Which will in turn take the emphasis off trying to force anything because capitalising off the spawn will have been made harder.
If they do try, as long as the player can get to a semi decent weapon like SG/PG they have a good chance to recover from the vulnerable "spawn in period".

You don't need to be einstain to make a cheap spawn kill though.
knowledge is fine, but what I'm saying is, in a game it can take 3-4 minutes to get a kill, but its possible to undo all that hard work by racking up 2-3 spawn kills.

Its not really balanced, apart from it can work for both people.

I not longer play so I don't care either way, as a spec its probably more fun seeing people get spawn killed:)

I can see where your coming from, but the issue of force spawning is more complex than being able to force them to spawn in front of you.

You can also force players to spawn on specific sides of a map (in order to deny them the possibility of stealing a powerup, and retaking control)

Your suggestion would not address both of these issues.

If the map is semi well designed it'll have plenty of goodies on both sides. A yellow armour here, a few shards there, a nice weapon, you're back in business.

That does not bother me or most people.

What bothers me is spending 3 minutes earning a kill, only to get killed 3 times in about 15 seconds off the spawn.

That's the soul destroying part (becaue if luck is not on your side you have to earn every frag back the hard way), at least a lot more than being in a less desirable part of the map with a fighting chance. if he get's mega or RA, stay away for a bit and let some of it drop off, rail more, chip damage etc At least you feel like you have some control as opposed to being LG'd off the map while dealing about 20/20 DMG in return.

You can't get around the fact that on a map X size, if he's not close or mid then he's far. He has to go somehwere and you don't need to be a genius to guess pretty well so many people have a good idea anyway and always will.

The bottom line is, killing someone within 5 seconds of spawning into the map is a lot more offensive and soul desotrying than infleuncing thier spawn point on a volumetric basis.

Of which is partly down to the fragged player, they choose where they die as much as the attacker. In any game like this, what can be done to you can be done to them.

If the map is semi well designed it'll have plenty of goodies on both sides. A yellow armour here, a few shards there, a nice weapon, you're back in business.

All of the duel maps in QL are like that. It doesn't mean you cant win a MH fight, then force spawn someone away from the already spawned RA, so they only have a YA to work with. (which might not even be available yet, since they probably picked it up before going into the MH fight) This is very common on dm6 for example.

I know most people don't like dm6, but this can happen on all maps, and its not something that a map maker should not need to work around, assuming we will SOMEDAY have more new duel maps in QL.

I would like to have random spawns only, not based on something. I would also like to have a spawn-area instead of a spawn-point. so people dont always spawn exactly the same spot. they could atleast give it a try.

i agree

problem is not spawnfrag, but spawn forcing
especially when it involves items control

it would be better a random spawn system, not a dead\killer position based system

Random spawns would be fine to. I mainly just want id to add a spawn system that is not based on killer position.

i agree on random spawns but i doubt spawn areas would help at all. spawn fraggin should be part of the game.

vq3 spawn system ftw! There is nothing wrong with spawn rapping, it is a skill and part of Quake.
Force spawning is just plain silly and slows the game down
The QL spawn system dumbs duel down along with the ammosystem, weapon respawn times and the timelimit.

I actually think a spawnsystem based on the location of your death would turn out way worse in ql than the current one considering you have to wait at least 2 seconds which gives your killer way to much time to position himself in front of the most likely spawnpoint, t9 would probably be unplayable.

I think it would make T9 faster paced, and more exciting to watch.

How long do you have to wait to respawn in vq3 again?

You could easily travel across map from one spawnpoint to another within 2 seconds on t9.

I think player respawn is 1-5s in vq3 and 2-5s in ql

Which is the point I was trying to make.

Suppose you frag your opponent at LG, he is spawning at either RL or YA, now you can easily jump across map and you will already be at RL when he spawns, there's no way you won't get a kill unless you have like 20 hp. After you killed him in RL area he will spawn at either upper YA or jumppad and again 2 seconds will give you enough time to jump across middle or make a rocketjump out of mega pit and the whole circle would start again.

If you'd only have to wait for 1 second there would be enough time to escape as a fresh spawn.

That's why I think the current spawnsystem suits QL better and we know id won't shorten respawn times.

But you're talking only about tourney9, which is not a typical map... It's the smallest and least complex map, that has ever been played.

I'm not saying that they should change to vq3 spawn system, but forcing spawns is a bad thing for sure.

How come you only see the downsides but not the upside? It is not like you couldn't do what I mentioned on other maps only that the possible spawnpoints are farther away from each other on ztn for example, I'd say it is about 50% for a sure kill in most situations.
The current system prevents you from spawning directly in front of your killer which is a good thing although there are a couple of spawns that are in line of sight.
I think that if you want to change the spawnsystem you should probably make it dependent on something that is dynamic while you're dead when you can't lower respawn times, maybe completely random would work too.
Dunno I'm just not sure if being able to force a spawn is worse than knowing where someone will spawn and having enough time to set myself up properly to deny items, deny weapons, spawnkill, etc.
I'm just saying that the current spawnsystem works well enough and changing something for the sake of changing is just stupid especially when it is clear that every system is about equally flawed.

In ql system, you're basically giving more control to a player who already is in control.

To a lower skilled player, the ql system may seem like a good thing, nobody unleashes a string of excellents on him, he is alive for a while afer being fragged, he's playing, but he's stuck in a place where there is nothing to work with...

>> he's stuck in a place where there is nothing to work with...

can't really see players getting forced away from items on any map other than dm6, on the other hand since you are spawning furthest away from your opponent you have more time to pick up weapons and get away

Suppose you frag your opponent at LG, he is spawning at either RL or YA

Just because the spawn spot is based on location of death, does not mean it would be within 2 spawn spots on T9. What the spawn is based off of, and the percentage of available spawns is 2 different things.

In QL its the furthest 40%, which ends up being within 2 spawns on T9 since there is 6 spawn spots. If it was 50% it would be within 3 spawn spots, or with 60% it would round to the furthest 4 spawns. (3.6)

I'm just saying that the current spawnsystem works well enough and changing something for the sake of changing is just stupid especially when it is clear that every system is about equally flawed.

id is the one that changed the spawn system. There was nothing wrong with the way it was before.

>> In QL its the furthest 40%, which ends up being within 2 spawns on T9 since there is 6 spawn spots. If it was 50% it would be within 3 spawn spots, or with 60% it would round to the furthest 4 spawns. (3.6)

OK I didn"t know that, any sources for vq3 spawnsystem on that matter? But increasing it to 50% wouldn't change anything on t9 though.

Furthest 50% would change T9 a great deal. That would mean that the spawning player would not always appear on the opposite side of the map. For example if the spawn was based on location of death using furthest 50%, if you killed someone at 1 of the 2 mid YA spawns, In one scenario, they would have 2 chances to spawn on the LG side, and one chance to spawn at the GL. In the other scenario, they would have 2 chances to spawn at the RL side, and one chance the spawn at the RL ammo.

As for the VQ3 spawn system, I am not sure of the math it uses. Maybe someone can explain that. I made this thread mainly to discuss the idea of having a spawn system based on location of death, but imo furthest 50-60% would be best for QL, as well as spawns based on location of death, and not location of killer.

For the me q3 spawn system was optimal. There it was on completely equal terms if someone was killed, both players would just react to what just happened based on a fixed standard. Not like it is now where if you get killed, you are handed over to the control of your attacker. Which is just stupid.

I dont think a random spawn system could work that well since it would totally negate the skill factor that the q3/ql system offers. Both in regards to spawn raping and just general map awareness. Like if you are in control and manage a kill, where does he spawn ? Does he spawn right next to you are really far away ? How do you assess the situation if you dont see/hear where the guy spawns ? You basically have no idea where he is unless you see/hear him spawn and it kind of forces a situation of uncertainty.

Spawn furthest from killer, with no respawn time limit(0-5), like UT2004 and others. If not spawn furthest, then no respawn limit would be enough for me. You die, click to nearly instantly respawn, and the killer may not even hear where you spawned, because it happened so quickly.

This is a bit off topic, but I didn't want to start a new thread just to ask one question.

Anyone know how the new spawn protection works? How much damage it reduces, for how long, etc? Sucks that they still haven't released a full change list.

someone told me 50% damage for 1 second.

not quite sure about that tho

That is correct.

isnt instagib damage like 999? how come spawn protection in instagib is full protection from a kill? unless they only do 200 damage, or its different in iGib

wtf did they do with the respawns in QL recently? They seem changed. They now remind me to the original ones form OSP. For example in ZTN lots of times you see this initial fight, player 1 takes LG, player 2 respawns near YA, both run to the center in order to take MH. Did they change it back?