Someone remove the top image please.

done and majored
regular user cannot remove images they attached themself? o0

POLOS IS RULEZ

PELE IS RULEZ!

unkind the crackhead lol

lol

Ron Weasley imo.

he is!

another related comment fail

Death the player or death the reaper of souls?

b100.death :O

both

same person.

cooller >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>zero4

in quakelive perhaps

Wonder why the over-the-shoulder footage is of Av3k.

Huh? It's a Cooller vs av3k match, from Cooller's POV.

Nah only the last shot is cooller's POV.

to much cooller interviews ,news and related hype

whats cool must not be too popular !

.

lol unkind the drug dealer

uNkind will always be the best player russia ever produced, cooller a distant second to him, zzz with the luck comments.

Fatal1ty wiped the floor with cooller at wsvg06 finals so we already know who the better player is there.

Lol Quake 4.

Don't hate on cooller, yo.

what about lexer =)... polos words - on wcg2002 ru noBap was best... and imho evil must play on internatioanl scene - he will be in top/// and im agree with frozen =) - PELE[PK] was best

PELE

even if you do count Q4:

How many ttournaments did fatal1ty win and how many did cooller win in that game?

Oops.

how many?

and... there's any video from wcg06 with cooller vs fatal1ty ?

It was WSVG not WCG and I don't know if there are vods.

Russia in Moscow eh

Santa Monica is in USA tho

In Soviet Moscow, paste copies you.

ty

ye i misstyped :P

The CGS Invitational was, if I recall correctly, a show match vs. stermy. Correct me if I'm wrong somoene?

Yes, pretty sure it was something like that.

on dm17

with quad

really? :D

And I'm pretty sure Stermy was told to "throw" the match too.

ahahha, that's golden

really!? haha and Fatal1ty is smack talking him when he gets back the lead IIRC

it's on youtube

found it thx

MOUNTAIN DEW INTENSE MOMENT

unkind never was better then cooller, never.

they were on same level
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1292994
yea or nobap http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1210163
look at those skill... in 2003!
of course cooller is a really talent, but that was a big plus for him that he was going on on some internationals lans like qlan after wcg2002... when he took superior expirience... imho noBap or unkind lost that...

Whiped your ass maybe! It was q4 finished 2-1 to fat with a very close third map on moonson.

i saw it now...
fatal1ty was very lucky on monsoon imho

but i found only phrantic and monsoon what's the other (i believe fatal1ty's) map ?

placebo imo

Wonder though what all the moralizing about the z4 thingie is about. Would you do it again? Ye, why not. If the rules allow that kind of feat and kick an opponent out for cheap why not do it.

you must be a very nice person irl.

(man I hope sarcasm works online...)

It works even without exclamation mark. Also I am. Where that's totally unrelated anyway: "It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."

You mean, people should even shoot others with rocket launchers and electrocute them and steal their health only to get ahead?

You are a bad, bad person!

electrocute :D

Yeah, but that's just the ingame mechanics.

I guess what people believe they're alluding to when making noise about this incident is sportsmanship. Which shouldn't be confused with handing out free gifts though.

His stunt was in compliance and done in the open. It's not like he was cheating, secretly tampering with his opponent's hardware or doping himself to the brim like it's common practice in other sports.

well, isn't sportsmanship if you act fair towards others even though you don't have to?

He was fair. Which again shouldn't be confused with making gifts.

As to sportsmanship, I believe the idea originally was that sports/games would be performed for their own sake and not for the win. Which is a nice idea but doesn't really describe reality.

Mind you, I applaud anybody striving for that at each and every moment in his life. But I don't blame anybody either if he doesn't, because there's some likeliness that you end up being the idiot of the century if you do.

Well in Australia, sportsmanship is about pitting yourself against the other within the game - not within the bureaucracy.


*underarm*

And that's what professional sports in Australia is all about, pitting yourself against the other within the game. I sure do believe that.

It's not like he was cheating, secretly tampering with his opponent's hardware or doping himself to the brim like it's common practice in other sports.

If your argument is about cheating, then cheating it was. There was a small scandal and cooller would actually get disqualified if the fact of the thrown match got proven at that time. So at that time it was already seen as cheating by other players and by WCG.

No, it wasn't cheating. You can lose a game any time you want. Also due to the simple fact that nobody in the entire world could prove that you did it on purpose. So forbidding that would make no sense at all.

Except of course if other things were involved. Like bribery. And in such a case that would be the angle a proof would come from.

But without that, all he did was promoting his own chances for a win of the tournament without actually violating formal rules. And that's a whole different category than using actual cheats for example or doping, as it is common practice in other sports. Where people indeed try to attain an unfair advantage over their opponents.

WCG saw a thrown game as cheating, so it was techinically cheating, objectively. Subjectivity is a different matter, I'm not arguing with you on this, and actually I think that human beings have free will and that means that they have a right to display any kind of behavior =). It shouldn't concern others unless they suffer from it directly =). But you said that for you it wasn't cheating, and then you compared it to doping, it sounded like you were intent on objective evaluation of cheating in sports rather than a subjective one. I'm still confused what you were talking about, as if you mixed the two in your posts.

The fault really is with the WCG, it is impossible really to prove conclusively that someone throws a game. Cooller states he did here, but the player he lost to Canadian Ni? something was fairly good and wasn't a push over for him, he was a better player but like it wasn't an opponent who he would win 100% against without trying. You can't expect someone to give their best effort when they have already qualified for the next stage of the tournament.

You're right, it couldn't be proved. Although I think the fault is not with WCG, it's the nature of the game that makes it hard to prove anything. You can prove that somebody cheats if you've discovered hacks, anything else is muddled waters. As you say, somebody can always say that they had nothing to lose by losing that game and just played in a relaxed way. Even if it's obvious that he's lying, technically you can't prove it.

Well, they could set up tournament rules (DE) to avoid such situations from the beginning though.

That's precisely the point, eventually. Any rule set that allows for gaining an advantage by losing a game is vulnerable to precisely that kind of stunt. Even if it explicitly forbids it.

What are you on about? Throwing games is cheating, period. It's difficult but not impossible to prove, just like in any sport like basketball. Whether something is hard to prove is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether something is allowed or not.

No, it's not cheating. In poker for example it's called bluffing, where you might fold a good hand just to make your opponent bet higher in following rounds.

There's no problem in losing games for strategic or tactical reasons as long as all parties involved, players, betters etc, know that it can be done. It becomes cheating only if nobody could expect that you'd do, i.e. when you explicitly violate the rules.

Guess it's about time to break out the complete written ruleset from back then, if available. But if I recall correctly, that's been precisely the trouble, that they weren't explicit on that point.

And again, the ideal of sportsmanship in terms of playing just for the game's sake doesn't apply to professional sports in general anyway. People play for money, for their living, i.e. to win. That's why I wondered about the moralizing.

No, it's not cheating. In poker for example it's called bluffing, where you might fold a good hand just to make your opponent bet higher in following rounds.

You can't compare this to bluffing in poker, bluffing is a natural element of the game. A suitable poker analogy for losing in purpose would be chip-dumping, which is intentionally losing your stack to the opposing player. Even though just like losing intentionally in quake it's easily possible to do within the regular proceedings of a cash game it is strictly forbidden in all poker sites and will get both parties banned when caught. It happens all the time too.

There's no problem in losing games for strategic or tactical reasons as long as all parties involved, players, betters etc, know that it can be done. It becomes cheating only if nobody could expect that you'd do, i.e. when you explicitly violate the rules.

You just need to apply that reasoning to any other sport to realize how wrong it is. Try explaining this to the NBA, EUFA, NFL or any sports organisation. There's thousands of incidents in sports history where a team or a player was accused of throwing matches resulting in fines, ban and even criminal charges (when money is involved). And this isn't just money related, plenty of times have teams been suspended for doing just what we're discussing, losing games in order to get an easier route in the playoffs.

It goes against the nature of competetive sports and that's why there are rules against it in probably all major sports.

But you could be right in regards to this particular incident. Admittedly I have no idea whether throwing matches was addressed in the WCG 2002 rules. If it wasn't then at best this was a serious breach of ethics, at worst a serious breach of rules which should have resulted in him being kicked out of the tournament. Really, it shouldnt' be hard to have a select player panel to review cases like this. It's not impossible to prove at all.

No, chip dumping is much less of a suitable analogy. Because, in classic poker, people do it to benefit another player. And in online poker it's even used for money laundering.

And this also is what the issue is largely about, the beneficiary or the kind of benefit. If you'd look at singular cases among all those examples you listed above you would, almost invariably I'd like to say, find that another party or interest was involved. Like throwing a game to make high betting gains.

In this case though, at least as far as the initial assessment goes, all cooller did was improving his personal chances regarding an overall tournament win. The single, accepted and understood goal he's participating for anyway. And you just can't ask a player to deliberately hurt himself regarding the goal he's competing for if the rules won't explicitly force him to do so. Well you may ask him for reasons of nobility or sportsmanship. But then you shouldn't call it "pro" but rather amateur sports and give the winners shiny medals for awards.

Also we are not talking about team games, which is still a different matter. Where several people had to agree about losing a game and individual interests might differ. E.g. if one team member really preferred to win and thus might feel cheated if the rest of the team pushed for a loss. And that's also where the provability comes into play again.

In single player games, like quake duel or tennis, you just can't enforce a rule which forbids a deliberate loss if no other parties or interests are involved. Because there's just no way to prove the intent. A player could for example always pretend he was sick or didn't feel well. There are thousands of reasons he could give why he lost and you couldn't prove the contrary, unless he isn't too obvious of course. Which is why a tournament should be designed in a way that no player could ever possibly benefit from a loss.

Bottom line being that, if I had been the manager of cooller back then, I'd have advised him the same thing. Just don't try too hard and z4 is out, one obstacle less on the way to the tournament win. There's nothing dishonorable in that as long as the rules don't say "don't ever lose in order to kick another player out or you'll be damned".

True it's flawed but it's more suitable since they're both about the same thing which is throwing the game. The only way you can throw a poker game is doing just that. Bluffing in poker isn't against the rules it's infact what poker is all about. The equivalent to bluffing in poker is simply bluffing in quake, e.g. faking a rocket jump to entice your opponent. There is no correlation between bluffing in poker and throwing a match in any competetion.

Cooller's action wasn't secluded to his own progress in the game. The point was to have a better chance of eliminating Zero4. Zero4 had a vested interest in the outcome of the match. So his interest was quite involved, and that of every remaining player in the tournament for that matter. True, the burden of proof is difficult but not impossible. Professional players can differentiate between not trying and playing bad. Of course it's all subjective and depending on how well it's done, but that's the same for other kinds of cheating, like wallhacks and aimbots. A panel of professional players could review this.

Not all incidents in the history of throwing matches has to do with betting, far from. In the NBA teams have been accused of throwing matches near the end to finish with the worst score in the league, thus gaining the first pick in the rookie draft. And there have been incidents in many sports similar to this one we're discussing. In 2006 the Clippers allegedly threw last seasons games to get a more suitable opponent in the playoffs, the Denver Nuggets. Just like ZeRo4 had a vested interest in the outcome of this match the Denver Nuggets too got cheated.

There are rules against throwing matches in all serious sports, including non-team sports. In tennis for example it is considered the most serious violation of the ATP rules and the penalty for throwing matches is 100,000$ and such a penalty has been invoked; Georgian Irakli Labadze was fined $110,000 for not trying.

You say there's nothing dishonorable about that as long as the rules don't specifically ban that. That's pretty cynical, there are plenty of dishonorable things you can do without breaking the rules. Honor/sportmanship/conduct and rules are two entirely seperate things.

I guess we differ on why such a rule would be in place. If it's only to prevent people profitting financially from a fixed match at the cost of others or if it's also to prevent skewing the nature of true competition. Obviously I think it's also the latter. Besides, there's always going to be vested interest of other parties, even if it's indirect it's still apparent. And when you enter a competition you should be able to count on everyone abiding the regular nature of competition, throwing matches not being a part of that.

Tournament organizers and sponsors wanting fair matches is incentive enough to have such a rule. The sportmanship aspect of this is obvious.

Man, I used the wrong term for the specific example I gave you above. Folding a good hand, which of course isn't bluffing. But it isn't necessarily chip dumping either. Which it isn't if you do it just to make your opponent more confident and induce him to take more risks. It's just a strategic move which serves the overall goal.

And of course was it about eliminating z4. Which of course people would have preferred to see happening in a game. But cooller took the easy way. It's what people do wherever possible for natural reasons.

Regarding the "NBA teams have been accused of throwing matches", of course you'll always see accusations. Because there's always a party that feels like being treated unfairly. And just like people grab any opportunity to win people will grab any opportunity to suggest that a win wasn't kosher, given the slightest possibility.

As to your tennis example, first off was the fine 7,500$. Second, bets had been running wild even before the game against the expected odds. Third, with this irregularity and suspicion of foul play in mind, has Labadze been warned during the game repeatedly to try harder while he visibly continued to play listless. And now compare that to our case. I'd say your example perfectly underscores all of what I said above.

Finally ethics. Imagine a ball of tennis pro player A being called out while player B actually sees the ball being in. Do you think he would inform the referee that he saw the ball being in if it was a critical situation in the game? In the vast majority of cases he wouldn't. Now, is that sportsmanship? No. But it's common and understandable behavior in professional sports. That's where amateur sport is supposed to differ. While it not always does. And because it is like it is there are rules.

And of course was it about eliminating z4. Which of course people would have preferred to see happening in a game. But cooller took the easy way. It's what people do wherever possible for natural reasons.

I mentioned it was about eliminating ZeRo4 since you said "if no other parties or interests are involved" for justification. Clearly zero4's interest was involved which is why in my view is why this should be forbidden and is forbidden in sports.

Regarding the "NBA teams have been accused of throwing
matches", of course you'll always see accusations. Because there's always a party that feels like being treated unfairly. And just like people grab any opportunity to win people will grab any opportunity to suggest that a win wasn't kosher, given the slightest possibility.

Sure, but this was just an example to point out that not all match throwing has to do with financial gain as you said. I pointed out an example of that and logic dictates that humans will exploit scenarios like this for their gain and thus this isn't specifically money related like you said. I don't think betting is the only reason for rules like this, see #145 which you probably missed since I posted it after my initial reply.

As to your tennis example, first off was the fine 7,500$. Second, bets had been running wild even before the game against the expected odds. Third, with this irregularity and suspicion of foul play in mind, has Labadze been warned during the game repeatedly to try harder while he visibly continued to play listless. And now compare that to our case. I'd say your example perfectly underscores all of what I said above.

I stand corrected on the amount. Regardless, there are rules in two-player sports that strictly forbid throwing matches which was my point. This is a perfect example of how indeed you can detect and punish a player when he's not trying hard enough. This could easily happen in a quake match, that is a player is visibly playing listless. I'm talking in general, not necessarily this Cooller match. Remember, your argument was that you can't forbid it since there's no way of knowing when the player is throwing the game or when he's just ill or playing bad.

Finally ethics. Imagine a ball of tennis pro player A being called out while player B actually sees the ball being in. Do you think he would inform the referee that he saw the ball being in if it was a critical situation in the game? In the vast majority of cases he wouldn't. Now, is that sportsmanship? No. But it's common and understandable behavior in professional sports. That why amateur sport is supposed to differ. While it not always does. And because it is as it is there are rules.

Exactly, that's the opposite of sportmanship; it's dishonorable. But there are many examples e.g. in football where a player informs the referee that he shouldn't card a player for an apparent foul. That's sportmanship and it does exist in professional sports as well as amateur events. My problem with your comment was that you said it wasn't dishonorable since it wasn't against the rules, as if those terms are necessarily linked.

I mentioned it was about eliminating ZeRo4 since you said "if no other parties or interests are involved" for justification.

Well, implied was of course "except the obvious party". Which is the opponent in the tournament. And not another party, like betters or a friend of yours participating as well and profiting from your behavior.

A player participates in a tournament for the win, which of course means eliminating opponents. And if he uses any means available to do that I might not be enthusiastic about it. But I can't call it unexpected behavior either. As long as he does it to serve the goal he himself is in for and not serving another interest.

not all match throwing has to do with financial gain as you said

I didn't say that. That's why I've been working my ass off to bring up various examples how "the other interest" might look like. Like the friend above whom you would do a favor by helping him to reach a better placement..

This is a perfect example of how indeed you can detect and punish a player when he's not trying hard enough.

Yes and no. Because it was only the bets which raised the suspicion. And the implied leakage of information about fixing even before the game. Which accordingly involves other parties resp. interests.

If Labadze had played listless for the single purpose of promoting his advancement in the tournament nothing would have happened. And especially so if he hadn't been too obvious. But he couldn't do anyway because tennis is single elimination. Which precludes exactly our situation from happening.

And have any warnings been given to cooller before the game, as the situation was foreseeable anyway? Apparently not. They could have told him before "we suspect you might lose intentionally to get z4 out, so take care that you don't".

that's the opposite of sportmanship; it's dishonorable

No. Like not being noble doesn't automatically mean being dishonorable. It isn't an either/or situation. You can be egoistic in an understandable and perfectly human way without being a pig. That's what a major part of my argument was about.

And at this point I'd like to repeat what I already said. Which is that I applaud perfect sportsmanship anywhere it happens. And surely would prefer all people acting that way. Expecting it would be totally unrealistic though, and moralizing about incidents like this is basically a waste of time. It's the design of a tournament which should prevent things like this from happening.

we did have so many players in rus/// - first players like pele polosatiy and pow3r second wave lexer death idl.demon, ultraquakers after that like cooller unkind noBap, next generation evil jibo morfez etc, and new players like questioon nike killmaster ash... and no one on international scene in the end only cooller...

morfez next generation? idl.demon? new players like question? man... stop blockhead europeans!

why not... demon was really in top if you forgot - and morfez in 2003-2005 was absolutly top player, he won asus duel tournament vs cooller in final... or why he was in rus team on eswc2004... and year maloy and ash not a new generation but they begun to play on top level after 2004-2006

Morfez is uber oldschool player, same is Maloy aka Question. Demon was top player but how can u compare him to players like: lexer and death? When u did't say anything about even pele. Ash? Ash can't be in this list.

but k1llmaster,hack3r and nike should be in that list...

are question & killmas playing QL?

no aero = no lamz :D

frozen is mad at you because u didnt name him

Anyone who says that uNkind is the best russian quake3 player ever can SUCK MY DICK.

whats wrong?

he just wants to explain you that pele is way better

so you read this thread first, then said that?? you want it badly?

I guess that means he agrees *shrugs*

GAY???

it probably behooved cooller to have z4 out, so i doubt the scandal was completely designed to help death.

You can tell cooller is upset when he thinks back to the Z4 situation. He seems very sad and full of regret =(

I don't remember the ruleset for WCG 2002 but things like this could be avoided by DE, or not?
Getting 2nd place in group stages and other tactical loses are common tricks to avoid strong opponents in the first round of the play-offs.
Remember Cooller vs. Strenx at IEM Group stage interview at the very end.

There was a unsportsmanlike conduct rule at WCG that we (socrates, z4, and myself) tried to argue for which stated a DQ was possible but it was impossible to argue that cooller did it on purpose at the time.

I have all the original MP3's of when this happened. It was actually super crazy at the time. And then Socrates started freaking out cause he thought SA.Phantom was gonna beat him on DM6. I remember Jay played that map like 100 times that night, and destroyed him the next day. That was some of the biggest player drama I can ever remember.

Aside from the cold finals of ESWC Masters USA vs. SWE.

Haha, I always wondered how ph4ntom could have raped socrates in the group and then lose just as spectacularly in the playoffs.

Well tbh I don't even think it's all that shady. z4 is responsible for putting himself in that situation. Cooller doesn't seem proud of dropping a game on purpose though, but at the same time I'm not convinced he isn't capable of something like that again ...we saw how he extended a second chance recently to his buddy av3k...

idd about avek part

avek did the same thing on dreamhack and lost because of that, so cut ur fanboy crap

I wouldn't consider myself partial to either of them and I'm not going to try and judge their actions. I was just pointing out a recent event which I feel shows cooller is still capable of lending himself to his friends wishes/interests even if it doesn't make sense to us.

oki

All is fair in love and quake.

What's the reason unkind quit?

Drugs overload

epic :)

fo real nigga?

lol @ the picture. no wonder esports never got big, look at the guys, a couple of skinny geeks, thats not what companies want to identify themselves with lol

Yeah because Wayne Rooney is such a looker.

dude that is just plain stupid!

well ,the 2 americans have a mainstream look ,..
but otherwise who cares ,do you really want david backhems play quake?

You're thinking of intel's "our stars are different" ad?

frozen know all u know nothing

cooller so epic person <3 :D

COOLLER FOR PRESIDENT









... of AGP

:@/

Cooller: death asked me to put out

death is evil................

actually he was a pretty cool guy when I met him years back at CXG

Cooler seriously has to learn English or to insist giving the interviews in Russian so we can sub them. His words/minute are awful.

go home! this broken english underlines his wisdom!

He should learn English like you should learn Russian

Yes, because in gaming, the lingua franca is russian and not english

His English is the most expressive and meaningful I've heard or read ever. Don't know why this is, if it's really a personal thing or because he just literally translates russian words and grammar. But it's great either way and I wouldn't want to miss it.

Dig this: "To be the best you must put all your time for it and work on many things." Is there anything else to be said about life?

.

If that is you I'd understand why you might be looking for one.

That is a grade-school level reply. If you are impressed by this, I can only be sorry for your boring life.

Very impressed. And no need to feel sorry, my life isn't boring at all. Thanks for caring though.

His English is great for someone who lives in a country that employs no English whatsoever.

.... idiot

I think this english is decent.

But I still want him to do interviews in Russian.

Russian sounds coo-ugh...awesome as well.

"Fatal1ty wiped the floor with cooller" u lol?
vod pov cooller
WSVG Finals 2006 Cooller vs Fatal1ty Phrantic map2
http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2855

.ru mad?

Ye. Fat won monsoon 15:10 with an even game until the 13th minute, where his pov basically amount to a snooze fest. I mean that's the single thing he really can, waiting around corners for his opportunity.

And interestingly enough, the two other maps have just mirrored results, 26:7 for cooller on phrantic and the same for fat on placebo.

The "wiping" remark is obviously just clownery.

phrantic is a really q3 style map in q4... 26-7 show what cooller can to do with fat in q3

Man frankly, when did fat drop out of q3? 2001? And he did for a reason, because things were going way over his head at that time.

He came back for d3 initially to grab some prize money. And the same for q4. Because he does well with new games as long as folks are still getting acquainted with them. Meaning that he's a great "early adapter".

But as soon as people come ramping up a fully developed skill set you see him going. That's why he's all over the place, he does lots of games fairly good initially but doesn't really go full depth.

Cooller on the other hand is a pure quaker, and a fully developed one. And as far as my sympathy is concerned I go with the latter.

Sorry but the "early adapter" argument pretty much went out the window by around 2005 after he nearly won (placed 2nd) that ut2k3 or 4 tournament despite having dropped the game a year before.

Then there was painkiller... he sucked pretty badly at first, but somehow managed to win the final. And q4 too, he didn't start playing at the same time as everyone else, and was way behind, but by the final tournament the only person that beat him was toxic, and it took 5 maps.

Dude, don't make me laugh. Quake 4 has been released in autumn 2005, and fat played it one, single year, i.e. in 2006. You call that disproving the early adapter pattern?

Painkiller pretty much the same, released spring 2004 and you saw fat competing from summer 2004 to autumn 2005. Basically, you saw him anywhere where good prize money could be grabbed comparatively cheaply, i.e. especially on new games.

Mind you, there's nothing wrong with that. But it still is what it is. As soon as the opposition gets really tough you see him going.

What are you talking about? He won the final in pk, that means he didn't quit the game after a month or two... And he was in the last and most important tournament q4 ever had, which was wsvg, where he made it to the final. After that q4 was basically dead and people went back to q3. In both games he was a late starter, not an early starter. He either wasn't at some of the initial tournaments (winter cpl, dreamhack, etc in q4), or just didn't do very well for a while (pk for the first few months), then finished strong.

You have a narrative in your head that everyone pushed back in 2003 when they were disappointed that fatality had stopped competing in q3 tournaments, so whatever.

I'm talking about a time frame of the initial year after a game's release. You'll hardly see many major tournaments offering good prize money being played during "a month or two" following a release.

And you saying q4 was dead after wsvg new york 2006 pretty much makes this discussion redundant anyway, given how selective your memory obviously is. i32 took place in november 2007. With events like wsvg dallas, toronto, louisville, i30 and quakecon 2007 in between, where q4 was part of the quad damage format of the latter. That makes it as good as another full year of high profile tournaments.

So it not only hasn't been dead at the end of 2006, but it's comparatively quick death wasn't even foreseeable yet. It was just fats usual time to drop out.

The wsvg event where fat placed 2nd to toxic was the grand finals for wsvg. It was the end of q4... especially in America. One or two events with small prize money don't mean the game's not dead. Flight tickets plus hotel cost as much as the prize money...
I'm done talking to you, you should get back to arguing about how throwing matches is ethical. Nice to see how you dropped talking about pk, as you were wrong in that instance too.

He also got employed by the CGS during 2007?

Painkiller pretty much disproves that "early adopter" thing as he was poor at PK for ages but consistently improved despite other players still hardcore playing the game too.

Mr. Anonymous

I listed 6 q4 events (well five maybe, forgot i32 it seems) in 2007 which took place after fat won your beloved wsvg finals in New York 2006 and made 10,000$ for that. Where most of those were still in the 5,000+ range plus paid flights and shit. The game was by no means dead, or even foreseen to be dead, after those 2006 finals your memory seems to be focused on.

Yeah, and why should I bring up further material regarding painkiller, which admittedly might have been a slightly different thing while not contradicting any observation about a general and preferred pattern when you are totally besides the point regarding q4 already? A waste of time and effort, obviously.

Edit: did I say won? Made 2nd of course.

if thats true, b100.death marked his karma to be raped over and over again even in 2010. no wonder he regrets.

Death =( imho nobap the person how did must to play on wcg2002... that shit run by death on ztn 2-1 in semifinal ruining that...

b100.death rulez :)

ok son

and russian national hockey team... NO

Death actually finished 2nd in his group behind if-22. Imagine that :]

it should be physically impossible to finish BEHIND someone who knows only one way - the reverse.

coz cooller asked hm

Topic kind of makes me think that Cooller was asked to kill ZeRo4.

Ye, like an allusion to Monty Python's "Meaning of Life". Death asking cooller to feed z4 the salmon mousse.

hahahahahaha

Cooller: death asked me to put out ZeRo4 with my Biggus Dickus.

If u want to know who was real #1 in Russia, ask RUSSIAN PLAYERS!!!

no ty, was obviously unkind

or maybe b100.death

no others.

btw, in 2002 there was such a situation when noBap met uNkind and they started everyday pracc sessions for the goal of WCG 2002.
These two had a deal, if they meet in the tourney bracket of Russian WCG Qualifier, noBap will give up the game for uNkind(because when they started, uNkinds skill was a bit higher than noBap's). So he did it on the qualifier (Sure, we'll never know if he would win WCG as uNkind did). But at that moment noBap was really unstopable. Unkind promised to give away some percent of prize money to noBap, but he didn't. that;s the story. Don't underestimate noBap's skill, we was one of the best players in Russia, just had bad luck and too honest-minded.

Sorry for my bad english. Had no practice for years :)

polos is rulez

Thanks for the interview, really enjoyed it. Cooller seems like a really down to earth and mature guy...maybe I got the wrong impression of the community's ideas, but it sort of seems like the community makes him out to be just goofy and arrogant, which he is not. Best of luck to him in the future.

That's because, due to his dominance, he became the "enemy" for many people who would rally behind whoever had the best chance of competing/beating cooller (Same goes for Fatal1ty).

So any comment he made had to be turned into some kinda arrogant whine or whatever and when he loses he's been "found out" or a "has been".

Didn't happen to ZeRo4, czm, Vo0, Toxic, av3k etc. because all these players began as the "hero" fighting against that "arrogant" evil guy.

You may also safely admit that he's been quite cocky when he was younger. But how young he really has been people seem to forget. I mean he played at the top globally when he was 16.

And one reason why he was that cocky might also have been russians traditionally experiencing western countries as "hostile". Ground where they'd have to defend themselves on. Polish people on the other hand have an entirely different background and upbringing. And then pretty much a similar attitude of westerners towards russians. Which is after all reminiscences of 20th century history.

It's exactly sports like this which help overcoming the old stuff and get people to really know each other.

It's funny too as av3k is a bit of a brat from my experience online.

I can't really tell myself because the few times I've seen him online he used to be talking polish with his buddies. But it's what I'd expect him to be.

Fact is though that westerners seem to take shit way more easily from a pole than from a russian, again likely for historic reasons. And that's why I'm fairly glad that cooller decided to come back for ql competition, because he's now at an age where he can express himself and clear up misunderstandings way better than back then.

Remember how they practically dragged him to dubai last year? He knew he wasn't in shape for a win and obviously would have preferred not to come. Because he's the only russian player representing a population half the size of that of the states. And because he knew a lot of people would gonna be seriously disappointed when he loses. But still he came, and that's what I call balls. I mean real balls.

Yeah, where other people stopped playing and attending, he's always tried to turn up at events and perform.

e.g. Q4 when he clearly wasn't playing anywhere as much as others he still turned up at several events and placed very highly in them (post-WSVG Dreamhack obviously)

So true. I mean common behavior I believe to have observed with top players during the years is that they prefer dropping out once they start losing or prize purses decrease, maybe both.

Still here's the trooper who's been carrying the flag, like many not that successful players too by the way so let's do not forget them, for eight steady years being true to the quake franchise and showing up at tournaments even when he knew that he was not likely to win. Where serious fuckups happened in between, like esports companies going broke, not paying prize money and ID Software themselves messing up the game.

I mean there has been some discussion about sportsmanship in this thread, with the single focus on one crappy incident almost a century back I personally give a flying fuck about. Which I do especially since this steady readiness to show up and compete in the game is about the most solid kind of sportsmanship one could ask for from my perspective.

For anyone not around during Cooller's dominance but who knows about pro StarCraft Cooller had a similar effect on people as sAviOr did. Both also shared a kind of up front and at times brutally honest approach to interview questions*

People look back now at sAviOr with little but fond memories and cheer him on hoping he can somehow return but may forget that during his era he was so dominant people almost hated the guy because he would beat up their favourite players over and over and take so many titles for himself denying them from players with fan appeal.

*I've known quite a few top Esports players who were really arrogant and had opinions about themselves which would have been a huge turn-off to fans but kept their mouths shut in that regard and just said the 'right' thing in every interview and as a result built up a huge image as a nice guy etc.

For anyone not around during Cooller's dominance but who knows about pro StarCraft Cooller had a similar effect on people as sAviOr did. Both also shared a kind of up front and at times brutally honest approach to interview questions*.

People look back now at sAviOr with little but fond memories and cheer him on hoping he can somehow return but may forget that during his era he was so dominant people almost hated the guy because he would beat up their favourite players over and over and take so many titles for himself denying them from players with fan appeal.

I think they're both true competitors in the sense they worked so hard to become great that they give no quarter to other players until they have proven themselves deserving of respect etc (thinking of sAviOr's line to Bisu: "come back when you have three MSL golds" or something to that effect, but once he did have those three then they became closer as people')

*I've known quite a few top Esports players who were really arrogant and had opinions about themselves which would have been a huge turn-off to fans but kept their mouths shut in that regard and just said the 'right' thing in every interview and as a result built up a huge image as a nice guy etc.

Soon i will make a big post on ESR. I will ask all russian top players and known russian quake community members. I already asked more then 10 players. Questions are: name top5 duel and name top5 tdm players of Q3 OSP times. And we will see, what russians thinks, who was really best in Russia.

what you meant... look on quaket.net pol lfor example =) - that's look like unkind and lexer best players)...
http://www.quakenews.ru/site/fullnews.aspx?id=187 - see that really nice movie about rus q3 history

fix the link alchy and comeback to us!

and for top5 duel -dont know - dont know... noBap cooller Unkind for sure... and lexer pele =) may be... dont know who =)...

best in russia != best in the world.

Take him out, you gotta keep em separated.

best duel-russkis for me are cooller, unkind, nobap, lexer, death, evil