A firmware fix I'm assuming? Is that even possible? (I'm a tech noob)

Who knows :) I'm going to do these .exe's tommorow for them, there to test for acceleration. I'm just happy i got a response from them on the matter, so they seem like they are actively interested in investigating further, they just need more detailed information from me.

jep, new srom for the sensor through a firmware update for the mouse

forward them the results from the tests this one asian site did which showed up to 10% accel at around 1.5m/s and upwards. good to hear btw. i <3 xai

Oh nice thought, can you remember the links to those tests? That would be great please

http://666kb.com/i/belsqdbh6ng4hh0nr.gif

taken from:
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1795986#pid1795986
http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1782842#pid1782842

originally from here:
http://wikiwiki.jp/fpag/ & http://wikis.jp/interfacedevice/
eg.:
http://sousuch.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DIY/mouse_latency/index.html
http://wikis.jp/interfacedevice/index.php?MaximumSpeed_en

thanks mate

Will this fix be for G500 aswell? I sure hope so.

Yes, the sensor they are talking about is the one used in the G500. It's also in the G9x and Xai.

Send them a link to part 3 of your G500 review. I thought it showed it pretty well.

Logitech is already working on it afaik. At least their technicians were able to reproduce the issue on the G500 and their community manager said they would like to see it fixed.

The fix has to come from Avago, Logitech can't do much other than putting some pressure on Avago

If Logitech wants it fixed, they will get the fix from either Avago or internally as long as it is technically possible. I can't imagine Avago saying no to one of their biggest customers of mouse sensors and it also makes sense financially for Avago to make sure they deliver the best product available.

ofc, that's why it was important that Logitech noticed the issue allthough I wouldn't be that surprised if they don't bother that much

WTF, don"t get me wrong, it's not an offence against you, kudos for your initiative but for what do they need your testing results?
They should have the much better testing equipment and I'm pretty sure they got infos/testing results from SS and Logitech aswell.

At least it shows that they seem to want make a fix for this problem, allthough I guess this comes much more from their customers than from a mail be some guy.

Oh and don't forget that the G9x with the original release firmeware hadn't this issue.

PS: It's allways nice to have such programs. ;)

do you really think steelseries care? look at their most recent blog posts - they even ignore my support ticket along with everyone elses

steelseries are money grabbing cunts who know fuck all :)

dunno how much SS cares, all I know is that they reportet this issue to Avago

oh and for your testing you should use CPI values which are multiple of 90 to rule out some influence by ExactSense (alltough the shouldn't be any), 1620 ist the standard value btw

i know :)

I use 1620 to play anyway hehe

:)

btw just to show that polling rate has no influence:

http://sousuch.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DIY/mouse/im..._500Hz.gif
http://sousuch.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DIY/mouse/im...1000Hz.gif

This is what SteelSeries told me about the matter:

We don't experience much acceleration with the Xai to be honest. We've made some adjustments in the 1.4.2 patch and will continue to make them in the future.

A fix from Avago sounds much better than that :P

Exactly, this is my last steelseries product, the quicker it dies the quicker i buy a g9x.

dont buy a g9x, it has the same shitty sensor. just avoid laser mice altogether.

i like the sensor and the mouse, i could live with accel if it's not removed, what i can't live with though is steelseries awful customer service

I e-mailed them almost 6 months ago about replacement keys for my 7G because they were cracked. They asked for my address, I gave it to them, they told me they sent them, I never got them.

Steelseries support is shite to put it bluntly.

edit: what's even better is I e-mail them once a month and do a support ticket every so often and they just ignore it :P I had to outsource the shit to a little company in the midlands who sent me filco keyset replacements within a week... If only other people were as decent. I can live with it if they sent a reply saying they couldn't get them or send them or whatever, but saying they sent them when they blatantly didn't is gash :(

yea, the usual customer support answer, allthough you could call 5% accel. "not much"

What about Kinzu fix?

not Avagos business ;)

Bull, what sensor is the kinzu using, also are there any tracking test on the kinzu, its nice mouse but the positive accel and prediction ruined it.

sry, I'm not allowed to tell, but there are only a few other sensor manufacturers besides Avago (Cypress, Philips, Pixart, ST), so it's not that difficult to find out

dunno if this japanese guy did make any tests with the Kinzu nbut with the whole speed bug id doesn't really matter anyway

Okay, i think i guessed it already, no wonder the sensor sucks =D
Btw what speed buy are you talking about, the accel? Pretty sure kinzu's have firmware so cant this be fixed? Such a shame, it actually have a nice shape.

I highly doubt it, and yes, I meant the pos./neg. accel. issue

While you guys might think this is cool that they are asking for help or proof of acceleration, it is actually worrying to me because as already mentioned avago probably has loads of testing equipment to actually find and fix the problem way faster then a handful of gamers with no testing equipment.

They might not really care or ever fix the problem. They already made their sales to logitech, steelseries and all the other no name mouse manufacturers that use the 9500.

While it also seems odd that Avago can't track down the issue, they definitely care. If it turns out something is wrong with their sensors, next time Logitech or whoever might not buy their sensors or might not agree to pay as much for them. That'd be like Microsoft losing the US Government as a client.

laser mice are the same as optical- you need a plain mouse mat/surface for them tn work proper, a printed bump is a extra nudge in movement

.

sounds rock n roll, it'll only take a week or 2 to most of the stuff posted over christmas, get the masterpeice under control now, http://q43a.org/

wont be no physics or hitscan changes, except for rocket jumps being added

if you have nothing useful to contribute to a discussion my advice for you is to stfu

laser is just faster and a more stable form of light, why stay away from laser and stick to optical, lasers need a tougher mat

if you have nothing useful to contribute to a discussion my advice for you is to stfu.

this thread is about the avago 9500 sensor built into the steelseries xai and logitech g9x/g500 among others. its problems have nothing at all to do with mats... tough or not.

until you look into the science, all laser mice have the same issues, some not as bad as others,

the rubber in mats need to be tougher with laquered tightly woven synthetic cotton for the laser glide over,

or add small rubber wheels for quiet tabletop use

Is this when I should call out "TROLL ALERT!!!!" or are you just very misinformed? Avago9500 has among the highest top speeds of any sensor out there, regardless of pad. The issue is that on current firmware the G9x and the Xai give slightly more movement counts per inch when moving at high speeds compared to slow speeds. This happens on both rough and smooth pads across various surface types (plastic, cloth etc.) Hope fully it will be fixed in a future update though.

Here's a short video I just made showing some major problems the g500 has tracking on the QCK line of surfaces at quickish speeds. I know there is no way I can move my hand faster than 30gs and it doesn't have this problem on my desk, so the Avago definately has problems on some surfaces.



EDIT : Whoops forgot to include the link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnnNnCWQKoE

Must be your mouse that has problems, both G9x and Xai track fine on QCK mass at very high speeds. You are using the firmware update from the forums?

Yep, I'm using the latest firmware. There are several other people that have posted videos on YouTube and a few on various forums I've posted at with the same issue. So either there is a bad batch of Avagos out there or they simply don't get along with the QCK surfaces. Stranger things have happened. The g5 had issues on certain surfaces when it was released and they managed to fix it via firmware updates. Have you personally tested both the G9x and Xai on these surfaces or are you just going off of what you've read? This isn't meant to offend, I'm just interested in facts. I LOVE everything about this mouse, but really would like to continue using my QCK's.

xai ran fine on my qck heavy, just a tiny bit of accel

1800 and 1620 dpi

1620 is default

Yes, I've tested both and had not a hint of skipping. Might be a design flaw in the G500 or you have a bad sample with incorrectly mounted sensor.

Could be either of those, I don't know yet. I've had eight other people tell me they are having the same issue with Avago9500 mice and two here that aren't. I've been around long enough to know not to take what people say on the internet too seriously, so if any of you would like to make a video showing the g500/g9x/Xai working just fine on the QCK surface, then that would be really helpful.


I'm going to go pick up another g500 tomorrow from BestBuy (I got this one from NewEgg) with the intention of testing it and returning it. This will eliminate the chance I have a bunk sample. It could be a design flaw on the g500, but I was to understand that the g500/g9x/Xai all use the same sensor. A poorly placed laser wouldn't cause the problem I demonstrated in the video.

Here is your vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSzt2f2b6xw

I think what's happening in the case of the xai at least is they have some issue in the manufacturing, because everyone seems to have different problems with it, and some none at all.

Avago told me themself that the 9500 sensor is to sensitive for cloth pads. I have tested QPAD 5k, Xai, G9x, G500 and ACE EDGE3200 and they all share the same problems on clothpads like Qck.
The sensor doesn´t even like colors like on the Fnatic Qck+ edition so buy black pads. It only takes a tiny tiny dust particle on your clothpad to make the 9500 sensor to freak out and mess up the movements.

Seems like a pretty large oversight considering how popular cloth surfaces like the QCK are amongst pros/enthusiasts. I personally hate the feel of hard pads and can't stand the scratchy noise and the way they wear down feet. I'm going do a little bit more testing, but more than likely this mouse is going back and I'll be avoiding laser mice altogether for a while longer.

Yeah seems strange they would go with a laser that performs poorly on pads of their own best sellers.

Also, considering the amount of 'pros' using qck's and Xai's... Meh

i doubt any over movement etc are the same on rough and smooth pads/mats

lasers are something around 99.99% efficient, patches just find a balance of sensor readings for different material types

in a year, you'll probaly being getting a special pad with your £60 mouse

"laser is just faster and a more stable form of light, why stay away from laser and stick to optical, lasers need a tougher mat "

Great going science man. Lasers are like light, only faster. Kirk, switch to warp 6 so we get better tracking!

�bai bai xai

What headphones are those?

$300 aviation headset from sennheiser.

looks like they wear earbuds also underneath

Ermmm, going a bit off topic, but almost 3x the price u mentioned =O
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/professional_avi...ise_500788

Btw any updates from avago?

I would like to add that I picked up another g500 today and it had the same issue on the QCK+/Mass as I had posted about above and in the thread I started. This nearly eliminates any possibility that I had just received a bad mouse. If someone can post a video of their Xai/g500/g9x working fine on a QCK, I would really appreciate it and it would help anyone interested in why many people are having this problem.

One more thing to add, one of the Logitech guys recently made a post over on their forums saying this:



"We have tested the G9, G9x and G500 mice with a sampling of mouse pads from most major manufacturers. Several main brand pads met or exceeded our more modest claim of 165ips, with results of up to 200 ips. The list of pads that met or exceeded our 165ips measurement includes--but is NOT exclusive to--the following pads: Func Surface 1030 series, Razor eXactMat: Speed, Q-Pad EC-R/XT-R, Steelpad 4D Smooth, Ratzpadz XT/GS, and Ulti-Mat Original.

As you know, Logitech's in the business of creating great gaming mice. We're not gaming pad testers and we cannot endorse 3rd party pad manufacturers. Consequently, we will be neither releasing the full list of tested pads, nor will we publish the measurement results of any individual pad.

What I can assure you, though, is that the vast majority of the pads we tested measured high enough that most gamers won't be able to sense any ips limitations in real gaming play. Far more important is that you find a pad that feels good to you. When you choose a Logitech mouse, you are looking for a product that has the feel and the functions you want, and we encourage you to look for the same in your mouse pads."


If you notice, all of the surfaces he mentioned are of the non-cloth variety. This mouse just doesn't work on cloth. Support told me to use a different pad. I'm personally sending the mouse back and doing a bit of shopping around. My advice would be that if you use a QCK surface, don't get an Avago9500 based mouse. If you like a harder pad, then I'm sure these are fantastic mice.

The xai works fine for me on qck+ . The only thing is that I use 500 hz, at some point greater than this number I get occasional tracking errors, but nothing serious. Sometimes the sensor will pick up a fuzz but I just air can it out when I get a chance.

I have no problem at 5000 dpi, 500 hz, freemove/accel/exactaim off.

that idiot does not take the positive accel into account
if you use cloth youll get low malfunction speeds and negative accel, however no matter what you do and no matter what surface youre using youll always have the positive acceleration @ speeds of ca 1.2-1.5 m/s

For even more lolz, support told me to use a sheet of white paper as a mouse pad. If you look at the spec sheet for the Avago9500, you'll see that they did indeed get all of their numbers by testing on a white sheet of paper.

try the cover of a Playboy, it should work best on that :D

I got drunk and ended up ordering the 9HD. I blame alcohol for making me buy a ridiculously overpriced mouse pad. It works fantastic, but I wish it was a bit bigger. It's width wise about the same as the QCK Mass, but a bit shorter.

Keep us updated on this pad. Do you think it will wear down the mouse feet?

I think the feet will wear down faster than they would on my QCK, but I don't think by that much. The 9HD is really smooth gliding but has a nice texture to it so it doesn't feel slippery but not scratchy either. It's super thin. It came with a microfiber cloth to clean it but no SS sticker to add to my collection lol. I'm pretty happy with it, the g500 tracks great on it (minus the pos accel, which hasn't really been an issue with my play style anyway). For $35, I would have liked it to be somewhere between QCK+ and QCK Mass in size though.

It all makes sense now. I'm going to make a fortune in the peripherals market by pioneering my own brand of mousepads. For a little extra $, they will come with go-faster stripes for extra glide





Who wants partner?

if you put "pro" and "gaming" on atleast ten different places on the packaging you're garaunteed to become successfull

Nevermind that. I've got endorsements from Fatal1ty and top Hello Kitty Online gamers

Can we get a photo of rapha holding up a sheet of notebook paper? :-P

graph paper for xtreme precision

hit google for hardtop mouse mat and you can get a mat like a said you need

No updates from avago?