I did with a low sensitivity in cs to the point where i raised my sensitivity while playing with the wmo and 3.0 to avoid it.

At over 40cm/360 (w/o accel) it's pretty noticeable when attempting fast 180s. However most of the people that play with those mice use either a higher sens and/or accel so it's not really a problem.

I play roughly 40 cm/360 and the neg accel was extremly noticeable for me. i cant really play with those mice at that sensitivity.
EDIT: even at 500hz

When I first switched to WMO I felt the same way, then I raised the mouserate to 500hz and now I wouldn't want to trade it for any other mouse :)

edit: I play at around 25 cm/360 btw

mouse pad ?

Some generic large cloth pad

if you use the 500hz tweak, neg accel is virtually non-existant unless you use an extremely low sens

Been my experience with it, using it for almost the past year now. I've tried 40cm, 43cm and a little higher (all w/out cl_mouseaccel). Can't say I noticed any neg accel at those sensitivities.

Sounds like you're on 125hz, put it to 500hz :)

Put it to 500hz and it's better but having gradually decreased sensitivity over the years (now it's like 40cm/360 like a few other people in this thread), the negative accel is very noticeable.

If I ever go back to a higher sens, the wmo is the mouse I would pick over anything else. It's simple yet perfect. No need for fancy dpi switches, irritating drivers, flashy lights or buttons everywhere you move your hand. Just plug in and play.

Yeah, I've been using it at 500hz since I got it and the neg accel is definitely noticeable at 40cm or more. Those who dont get it must have slow hands or smth.

And the wmo is far from perfect (stiff cord, shit mwheel, neg accel) but it's probably the closest any mouse will get.

Well the chord breaks in over time and most people use a bungee or weight or something anyway
Mousewheel is shit that's a given but I barely ever use it (except for +jump in some games)
Negative accel is just a given with it but at higher sensitivities it's barely noticeable.

if it had a better grip (sweating is a problem now) and better mousewheel (for those who care) it'd the perfect mouse for quake forever. Now it's only the best available.
The only way to make that better would be the mouse to have cooller's signature or something lol.

and neg accel is not an issue really except for cs tards who think they will aim better with ridiculously high sens and even moving the arm to do so.

edit: oh and the mouse cord too. Ime3.0 is ok, but wmo/ime1.1 breaks over extended use.

Using a low sensitivity hasn't got anything to do with how much better you think you will aim.

It's easier to make a large movement for correction then it is to make a minuscule one (for example, recoil, headshots etc)

Many players also use lower sensitivities because they make a habit of not having to spin around to find their enemy behind them ;)


If I went back to playing Quake or TFC/TF2 more then I do now, I would go back to using the high sensitivity I had, just because I don't need to hit smaller parts of models or control recoil.

wmo is too light for my taste, I recently switched from mx518 to a wmo, I hate to say this but I miss my mx518. However I see a noticeable improvement in my rail aim from mx518, I cant explain why it is happening but I would rather be in more control of dodging than a few flashy flick rails.

[wmo] In my opinion it's a really minor issue. I play quake live, about 25 cm/360 but with some acceleration. I think you would never even encounter the negative accel unless like someone said, 40 cm+ and no accel on very fast turns. Even then, it's not like the mouse halts, its sensitivity just reduces.

If you _had_ to pick the overall best mouse, in a poll here on esreality I think wmo would win 1st place with the IEM 3.0 in second.

so what's exactly is that "negative acceleration" ? And how check it out cuz i'm playing on WMO@125hz probably longer than 3years and I didn't notice anything bad after all - sens 27cm/360

And and and i don't want overclock usbport to 500hz cuzz it's works worst than 125hz for me :E and still it depends which program i'm using for overclock cuz each makes mousefeeling different :P

turn a 360° slowly, measure it out on your mouse pad, then move it the same distance (on the pad) fast, neg accel should cause it to do less than the former 360°

not applicable if you use accel (unless you disable it for testing but then it's not really your settings)

how often do u do 360 flicks ingame?
...

how is that important? the 360 thing is for checking it. its about speed - the sensor cant register too fast movements so it skips some (if i understood it correctly).

you can make a 90 degree turn with the same speed as 360 with negative acceleration taking effect in both cases.

Wmo neg accel = shitty 8bits buffer.
There's a relation between the number of counts stored in the mouse internal buffer and the max speed, that's why overclocking the usb port to 250/500hz is recommended, as your usb port becomes a vacuum cleaner and allows you to transfer more data during the same time lapse - > improved max speed before neg accel kicks in. Overclocking to more than 250hz is useless in regards to the buffer limits.

Wmo skipping : sensor crapping out as it can't handle the speed.

So yeah,40+cm/360 you can make a 90° flick with the same speed as a 360° one, without getting neg accel as thenumber of inputs registered in the buffer are waaaayyyy under the buffer limits even at 125hz.

People feeling neg.accel during regular flickshots = placebo.
There are a few situations where it would be possible but they need both a low sens and a paranoid spastic player 180ing like a madman 37 times in a second.

my ie 3.0 had pretty easily noticable neg accel when I played at 50cm/360°, as I said it's not really affecting your performance too much though (since wide enough flickshots are inaccurate anyways).

Aside from really fast, semi-panicy 180°'s sometimes coming up pretty short. (moving it the same distance slowly on the mousepad would way overshoot)

I never noticed neg accel on ms3.0, my positive accel on the other hand I can feel :p

....that depends on how quickly you do that 90 degree flick.

You either are a robot or a paranoid spastic guy.

guess im a robot then, cuz with the ie3.0 negative accel during 90 degreee flickshots where noticeable. i even measured to make sure i wasnt imagining myself

The fuck sensitivity are you using then!? I use a really low sens and can't notice the negative accel on a 3.0 until like a 180 turn.

40cm/360
it wasnt devastating though and i bet if i used it for a month or two i could grow accustomed to it. but i still prefer my mx518 v1 since i cant get any neg accel at all with it no matter how fast i move it @ 400 dpi.

i also prefer mx518 shape by far. i like the shape of the wmo though.

There's no way you can get neg accel with a 10cm flick except being a fucking robot that only flicks the mouse when the buffer is already nearly full.

I'm guessing you don't even use the wmo and are just trolling.

1.6 m/s (top speed for wmo from sujoy's mouse thing) isn't that fast. It's 40cm in 1/4th of a second. Easy if you try.

I use a wmo. I can make it crap out when I want to.
But since you didn't understand the part saying that MikeHaggerKJ could get neg accel with a 10cm flick nor the part where I explained the speed/buffer relation I'm guessing you don't even use the wmo and are trolling.

I could explain stuff to you, but it's not worth the time. Please repeat back to me, to show you can copy and paste.

well i do so go fuck yourself

with low sens yes there's noticable negative accel, it's still usable though and is used by a lot of players who are experiencing it.

If you're at 30cm or less for a 360° I wouldn't worry though.

In conclusion it's not skipping (which is obv not tolerable), your 80° flick shots aren't actually that accurate anyways which are about the only things that are producing neg accel unless you use pretty low sens.

dunno, i used to have 25cm/360 before with mx310 and when i switched to WMO it was gay as hell, 500hz or 1000hz. you cant do fast flicks without feeling draged behind.

but then i started to add acceleration and now i am in love with it.

so, imo WMO does not work without accel when its mid to low.

30cm/360 on a WMO and no issues here with negative accel @ 125hz.

That's why lots of pro players add tiny bit of acceleration to their configs - just to counter this neg accel.

Does this mean that you actually never experimented with accel to understand its behaviour and relation to base sens yet say stupid things on esr?

Yes it does.

Please don't try the " Zero4 ballmouse accel 0.05 " argument, it won't work.

Shut up, frog.

I've been using the 3.0 since it was released, never knew about the neg accel lol.

well youre never going to encounter it unless you play on a really low sens.

people keep saying really low sens, how many cm's/360 is that? 60? 80?

Also, talkin only about "pro players", if the negative acceleration can be removed by 250 hz or higher (to a large extent), how do they manage to get the same feeling when they use their WMOs at tourneys and such, because they definitely aren't allowed to overclock the mouse there, are they?

or do they just use a tiny amount of accel in their cfgs to counter that, i see a accel value of 0.1 in most cfg i've seen.
oh and btw, haven't seen too many :D

You can't imagine how much I like it when people who don't know shit about accel behavior keep saying " tiny accel to counter neg accel ".

To give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he means using mouse accel to reduce the overall speed of the mouse moving on the pad as to avoid the speed where negative acceleration appears.

Dunno, everytime I see something saying this they seem to think that a so called "low" accel value makes the accel kick in at really high speed/long distances like it's a fucking on/off switch.

hey hey,
all i'm saying is a mouseaccel value of 0.1 is tiny and thats what i suppose its there for, in cypher's cfg e.g.
but i really don't know how accel works, from what i understood in this thread, it only happens when you move the mouse faster than a certain m/s so this accel in the cfg mebbe keeps them from having to move the mouse that fast,
@ Lorfa thats exactly what i meant :D

//all i'm saying is a mouseaccel value of 0.1 is tiny and thats what i suppose its there for, in cypher's cfg e.g.

It's not necessarily 'tiny', depends on a bunch of factors:

http://esreality.hexus.net/?a=post&id=1370847

I think in cypher's case his accel is actually rather small (J was like 0.057). He doesn't use a wmo though so it's not really relevant to the discussion.

//but i really don't know how accel works, from what i understood in this thread, it only happens when you move the mouse faster than a certain m/s so this accel in the cfg mebbe keeps them from having to move the mouse that fast,
@ Lorfa thats exactly what i meant :D

Sounds kind of like what fair1e was concerned about. Positive acceleration makes it so that the faster you move the mouse, the higher the sensitivity, and conversely moving the mouse slower results in a lower sensitivity. So, although in my opinion it's by far not the main reason to use positive accel, it certainly can reduce the max speed that you move the mouse since the sensitivity is likely to be much higher than needed at high speeds.

So it doesn't just kick in at a certain m/s, it adjusts the sensitivity at all speeds.

okay,
really complicated stuff to be honest. :D

Edit: oh and thanks for explaining

I'm sorry dude, I switched to the " oh god not another esr moron who don't know shit yet has 3 of the best threads about accel and sens on the whole interwebz a few clicks away from here " mode waaaayyy too fast.

nah, if i were in your position i'd do the same probably.

? Why wouldn't they be allowed to change the polling rate?

So you're saying that they are?
I really dont know, but using external s/w to get that done won't be allowed right? For a mouse like WMO, you dont get drivers and shit that change your polling rate for you.

Changing the polling rate nowadays is as ubiquitous as having mouse drivers/configs. Although in my opinion you'd have to be kind of crazy to use anything but the default microsoft HID-compliant type drivers..

It wouldn't make much sense to not allow you to change the polling rate, since mouse drivers themselves are a kind of 'third party' software. I would even go so far as to say that it would be unprofessional for a tournament to have a rule against polling rate changes on the tournament machines.

I'll tell you a 'Cool story bro' about this:

I once attended a q3 ffa tournament at a local shopping mall that was organized by a local business. Since the 'organizers' were quake2 newbs who couldn't be asked to make a proper tournament, they had a rule that if you go into the console you forfeit. Of course they didn't bother with unbinding the tilde key, so it was a bit dangerous to select the gauntlet (or even check your scores) with them watching.

So all players had to play with the default config. Some of the screens had a bunch of glare on them from overhead sunlight (this part of the mall had a big sun roof), the lan was lagging, and if you got knocked out you could pay to get back in up to a certain point (racketeering). So pretty much it was completely random who won or who lost.

Except one guy who when he first heard about the tournament (I think a month or so before), began training rigorously with the default settings. He was an invert mouse user, who had to even switch to non-inverted to practice this way.

When it came time for the tournament, despite those awful tournament machines he played like a pumped up z4muz with a cooller winning streak. I'd say that his 1st place was pretty much the only placing that wasn't random.

hmm i guess you're right,
we dont have too many quake3 lans in this part of the world so i dont have a first hand experience.
thanks for the "cool story bro" :P

Well, most of the tournaments I know, clans just bring a usb key with the various different mouse overclocking utility. Most people want 500hz so it's pretty standard to let the players just quickly do it

yeah that sounds reasonable enough i suppose.

changing the polling rates wont be so easy when tournys start using windows 7. god i hate the driver enforcement module

since i've put accel in ql the mouse feels great... stupid fucking monitor hz to fps wank that rages me:D

Not related but does anyone know if the 1.1 has the wmo cord or the thinner 3.0 cord.

I wasn't aware there was a difference in cords. I once replaced a faulty 3.0 cord with a wmo cord.

kinda offtopic question but i don't feel like making a new thread

can you make a MX510 @ 400dpi skip ?

I tested it on 40cm/360 and if i move it REALLY fast from the left edge of my puretrak talent to the right it will stop reading very early, I usually do smooth 20cm movements in order to turn behind me so it doesn't bother me much, but is this behavior normal ? I thought mx500 - mx510 - mx518 were impossible to skip and had zero negative accel at 400dpi and 250hz


testing enviroment : counter-strike ( 1.6 or source, it doesn't matter imo ) win xp sp3 + cheese mousefix / windows 7 home premium + marck c acceleration fix, 6/11 improve pointer precision OFF, all 3 noforce commands 1680*1050 120hz

ofcourse testing in either source of 1.6 matters, their both entirely different engines.

yea but in both engines mouse input is handled by w32 not direct input, and since I'm using 400dpi and kinda of high res i shouldn't have skipping / negative accel , I've tried mx510 titan monstermat and func c-series too, I think that i should NOT be able to make it skip if I want to .

Maybe is it just inferior to mx500 @ 500hz - mx 518 @ stock hz ?

Dunno if the MX500 has the same performance as the MX510 but 4m/s isn't somethingh you can't reach with your hand. ;)

What's the max. reading you get with enotus mouse test?

PS: Why bother if it doesn't skip in normal gaming?

1.6-1.7 m/s with intellimouse explorer 3.0 @ 250hz
3.45m/s max with mx510 @ 250hz

Maybe should I try a game with direct input or raw input ?

Yea, you should do that, sounds like a realistic performance for the MX510 so it shouldn't be a hardware problem.

tried cs 1.6 and ut2004, with and without enforcing rinputv131, still can't get a full 360 when moving the mx510 40cm to the right FAST, anyone who can replicate this problem with his trusty optical mouse ?

how often do you do 360s while gaming? why the fuck would you need that ... why call it a PROBLEM? ...
as for perfomance it really depends on the pad

What do you understand under "FAST", gaming-fast or the-max-my hand-can handle-fast?
If the later is the case, consider that the MX510 doesn't have an unskippable ubersensor but still one that performs well enough for pretty much everyone.

I mean " max-my hand-can handle-fast " on a full sized puretrak talent :D


I just want to have confidence on my mouse that it will respond with 1:1 to any of my movements no matter the speed, what about razer salmosa @ 450dpi/1000hz ? i got a func C series black handy just in case it tracks that bad on the talent.

I honestly wouldn't worry about needing to do a 360...


I'd be more concerned with 180s, and even then, make it a habit not to have to turn around to find people behind you. Don't blame the tools for not getting the kill ;)

You definitely can get neg accel on the 510 since it's not the same hardware as the 500 nor the 518.

It has the same sensor than the mx310 and the G1, which i could both make skip on lowsens. :)

i have WMO 1.1a 5OO hz usb and i have negative accel

but i play cpm with 7,5 sens and accel 1.0 ! LOL i cant play when i cant make fast 18O ... thats why WMO 1.1a sux i dunno if it change when i buy better pad but i think never change . [i have cheap clot old pad , rulezzz]

and when i wana play with no accel i set m_speed to 9 and m_accel 0 i its still sux

i use latest cnq3.exe win sens is 8/10 + check on precision think.
and in quake m_speed 9 and make it only 18 cm for 360 .

everybody use like sensitivity 5 or 6 i use 9 and still cant make fast 180 ! now i plugin to my pc other cheap 800dpi mouse

lol fast 180 nice aim...

WMO have only 4OO dpi its low for fast 180 so i need buy new mouse ...

NOW. i dont know what i should buy somethink like hal9000 use ? logitech G1? 800 dpi or somethink broken and overpriced like razer :DDD but nobody selling G1 these days .

4OO dpi is cool for me only with m_accel but i play also halflife AGmod and there is no accel so...... maybe if i have 3.O but with WMO is unplayable . so what should i buy ? plz help me

worst troll of the day, can't even manage to give us values at which he'd get neg accel without stealing MikeHaggar's arms and upgrading them to a more recent firmware.

Or maybe do I need to get some info on some m_speed black magic but I cba.

u r troll face .

negative accel on any values .. ANY ok ?

how do you know you get negative accel with that kind of setup?

Broken wmo then. You CAN'T get neg accel with the vales and cm/360 you told us unless you're a fucking robot. Or a retard using in_mouse -1 and 640*480.

what has in_mouse -1 to this resolution?

getting mouse movements by mesuring the windows cursor's movements. The LOLOLOLOL thing is that when the cursor touches the edge of the screen, windows forces it back INTO the screen -> crazy neg accel.
High dpi, low sens or low res = no no. If the guy is running @ win sens 8 it means that the ratio is 1:2 ( kinda like a fake 800dpi ).Now imagine what it would do on a low res if he really flicks it.

I think cypher was playing on these settings in q3 on wmo

There's no point in using in_mouse -1 with a wmo. I mean, the only reasons to use it are
a. being a retard that messes with the drivers sens
b. using a razer mouse that floods the direct input buffer.

I don't think he used drivers with a wmo.
Everything regarding the win sens is very easy to recalculate for in_mouse 1 or raw input.

So...meeh I don't think so but I could be wrong.

its not broken ... raw input and 800x600

Then it's broken. You CAN't get neg accel with such a sens ( and I don't even care about the shitload of accel you play with ).

no. piss off.

18 cm for 360
The fuck else do you need? That's 9cm a 180 base sens and he's even using a shitton of accel.

so what your opinion on razer products i mean mouses like razer Diamondback i think i go buy it . so i wana now .

I don't really have an opinion on them, they make both good and bad mice. I had problems with my "old" deathadder ( it would randomly get warm even when I didn't use it ) but it doesn't mean every da is shit. The 3g sensor has a quite high lift-off distance on most pads and I'd be worried about mice that can't have their firmware upgraded ( that's the way the problem was nearly solved with the da ).They usually are overpriced but I guess that's how much 1000 useless more dpi and glowing lights cost. You might want to try the salmosa and the abyssus. Also, check logitech mice.

But seriously, the problem isn't that the wmo has a 400dpi sensor, the problem is that yours is surely fucked up. Try to test another one if you like its shape and feeling.
btw, ie3.0/wmo = same hardware, different shape.

dude i try wmo 1.1 very old logitech also 4OO dpi and also razer krait on 4OO dpi =>> Unplayable .. 18O is very slow . and my arm hurts :D

i try razer krait on 1600 dpi i try old logitech crap on 800 dpi all work fine ... also in halflife AG mod i can make fast 180 and nice fast gauss jumps . like in this video youtube.com/watch?v=obN7IrT0wlU&playnext_from=TL&videos=yVDD-HlnBpU

and with razer krait on 1600 dpi 180 was realy fast damn ,so 800dpi must be fine .. cause on krait 1600dpi was little jerky or choppy sorka for english

// 3,0 and WMO same hardware ? i read somewhere on this site that 3.O have better tracking and 6000fps and WMO have more neg. accel and 3000fps . so why is 3.0 so overpriced ?

because the 3.0 was advertised as a gaming mouse from the very beggining.

Dude, dpi is a placebo and is completely unrelated to your problem. If you don't feel comfortable with your sensitivity, change it. You won't lose any accuracy or whatever unless you use something retarded like 5cm/360 cause it's a fucking 3d game.

You must move the mouse too much? Up your sens. I use a wmo, raw input, sens 3.5. 30cm/360. It's a happy medium I've found between 3.25 ( better tracking wjile keeping decent movements ) and 4 ( what worked the best for me in wsw/cpm ). I still tend to overflick my 180s a bit. I still couldn't aim shit after 2 months @ 4.5 ( 22-23cm )
I like it this way. You don't? Up the sens.

lol i refresh site 3O sec ago and u post already.

i cant belive , how can some1 play cpm with 3O cm for 36O

I'm bad :D
When I messed around with accel I came up with something like sens 2 accel 0.15. That's 52cm a 360 and a medium speed 10cm flick from the wrist to 180.

If you're not over 30cm/360 and/or if you don't make lightning fast moves you're good.

I use in game sensitivity of 4, res of 800x600 @ 120hz, 500hz USB polling rate on my IME3.0.

It's perfect, I've never noticed any negative accel.

cm/360 is the only true and easy way to tell mouse setup

I'm American. We use inches.

sure use inches

9 " or 23 cm

360/ [[400/2.54]*0.022*4] = 26
I'm sure of it : that's my sens.
Unless you use a higher yaw which would be really peculiar.

Edit : Oh wait, recent ie3.0 ? I heard stuff about the new sensor being 450dpi which would explain the 3 cm diff.

hey! we're quake mouse sens twinkies!

:D

new version has new sensor?

Mike : Heard people here saying it was an upgraded version. Same specs but 450dpi or so.

Focus : srs bznss.

If he's not a complete moron he's using in_mouse 2.
Assuming he's still using m_yaw 0.022 he's around 26cm or so.

No and I love it anyway.

no never at all sensitivities w/ ime 3.0

not since i clocked it to 500hz. and maybe just a little before that.

IMO 1.1 @ 500 HZ. Hardly no neg. accel unless I move my mouse spastic wise like I did with the Steelseries Xai before :D

500 hz here and I don't feel any accel, then again I never knew it had issues at 125 too.