Phace - Brainwave is one of my fav dnb tracks ever.

that's not dnb. that's garbage

Away with you! Back to your Basshunter esque Pendulum!

second is good dnb, but what's the first supposed to do? By listening to the first track I just thought: my god don't push pause all the time, just let it flow, my god!

Well the album is kinda split between 3 genres (dnb, neurofunk, electroish shit) all with the Phace sound to it
Electroishshit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHZ0-JtQa6g
neurofunk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jClynEbo8WY
dnb - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsyfYc9zfLY

neurofunk is a subgenre of drum and bass.

It's a very definable sub-genre. I don't think you could call it exactly like dnb (or any of the other sub-genres in dnb). Other sub-genres of dnb still maintain heavy elements of dnb (for example breaks, drops etc) but neurofunk - whilst having many of the same elements, is a very different sound (not just sonically but rhythmically and melodically) which is why many people identify it as a pretty different sound

Whilst the album does have very traditional Amen dnb, there are some tracks that you could clearly identify as neurofunk which was what I was trying to say ;)

The majority of subgenre names in drum and bass are nonsense created up on the spot by lazy music magazine journalists. There are tracks by the usual lineup of teebee, technical itch and kemal etc. which simultaneously could be considered darkstep, techstep and neurofunk to name but a few.

Trying to define subgenres with some kind of pinpoint accuracy is a fairly meaningless task IMO considering there's so much grey area and it's largely just interpretation.

Like 95% of the tracks Phace have ever done are neurofunk by most definitions. The only ones which aren't are the shit ones off this album. Too bad Phace and Noisia insist on filling up a third of their albums with borderline unlistenable cross-genre attempts instead of just doing what they do best for the entirety of the album.

Well there's huge differences between the sub-genres if you're into musical theory and production techniques. The vast majority of darkstep/techstep go around diminished and locrian modes with very layered basslines and crisp breaks. Neurofunk often goes around dorian (which is where the funk element comes in) and the way the bass lines are equalized and layered gives it a sometimes rawer mid sound. This new Phace stuff (I'm guessing mainly because he collaborated with Misanthrop) is very varied and kinda mixes all of it together. Die hards might not like it, but people who like listening to people try something new and push out original stuff (hense the Noisia quote :P) would love it xD

Whilst I agree somewhat that the sub-genre names are thrown around loosely, they still help to describe what you're listening to if you're talking to some random bloke. If he asks what you're into and you say "Oh I'm into dnb" then that could mean just about anything. Are you into Calyx? Phace? Bassline Smith? Black Sun Empire? Dieselboy?! Goldie?! Pendulum!?!?! They're all very different but they all loosely fall under 'dnb'

Besides, alot of Phace's stuff can come under various sub-genres. It's just it's more famous for pushing the neurofunk style.

And being into production myself, I'd prefer that these artists reinvent themselves and try something new rather then pump out clichéd stuff that everyone's heard before. I much prefer Noisia's early stuff but would happily listen to their newer electro stuff just because it's something different and occasionally something incredible comes out of it.



TL;DR - dnb is good.

I'd prefer that these artists reinvent themselves and try something new rather then pump out clichéd stuff that everyone's heard before.

That's the key difference then: if it's a choice between unoriginal and good and new but potentially shit I'll take the former. Though I don't even truly understand what unoriginal means if the music itself is good. The Ramones made a lot of albums which all sound quite similar but that doesn't change the fact they're all pretty good.

Most of the cross-genre attemps I have heard, especially recently, have been trainwrecks. Easy examples would be the current Noisia and Evol Intent albums. The drum and bass tracks are good but you get one or two dubstep tracks which approach being good and maybe the odd electro/breaks track here and there.

Most of these 'experimental' tracks or attempts at other genres are just poor efforts which if they didn't have the huge name slapped on them would be dismissed or ignored within that genre. I like dubstep but I don't like listening to bad dubstep from people whose work I am only listening to because I like their drum and bass so much.

I'm not really interested in hearing drum and bass artists try to do electro/techno unless they're really good within their own rights at those genres. Just like I'm not interested in hearing Stephan Bodzin try his hand at tear-out drum and bass or Godspeed you black emperor try to do reggae style dub.

There are obviously exceptions. Black Sun Empire's dubstep ventures have been very good and someone like Beck can very effectively hop genres when he pleases. Even Noisia have done some good electro/breaks at times (split the atom etc.) but the non-dnb on that Noisia album was at times utterly appalling.

If this has been pre-internet and I'd had to buy the Noisia album without hearing any of it I'd have been highly disappointed to find it had D minus attempts at other genres on it.

In general the Phace album was underwhelming I thought. I'd probably give it a 6.5/10 since there are some tracks which are good and some which are nice enough for a minute or two. Sadly I had high hopes since the DoA mix they did in 2008 featuring cuts was so good and I've enjoyed pretty much the entire Phace back catalogue.

Well Phace's new album does have what I'd consider some filler but the parts that are great are great.

And yeah there's nothing wrong with staying to one sound, but after a while it'll get boring or the artists will find it hard to maintain the motivation to stick to it if they have no inspiration, but that's where the problem is.

You're saying that most of the attempts at cross-genres are bad (which to be fair, is mostly true) but the few that have succeeded (for example the ones you've mentioned and some recent ones I loved being Mistabishi going dubstep and Rusko going house/garage) were fully worth the artists trying something new, which is why I'm willing to forgive some shitty releases if it'll bring out something thresh. There's always gonna be good and bad views of it though. That's just musical taste ;)

Anyway, the point I was trying to get across with the sub-genres was, it's just easier to describe. I've had people complaining before saying "OH GENRES WERE JUST THINGS MADE UP BY JOURNOS OR RECORD SHOPS" but who's to say that this is the same as this or even this being the same as this ._0

but who's to say that this is the same as this or even this being the same as this ._0

Yep, I agree that it's useful to make attempts at describing things in more detail. Though a lot of the time I see people using those labels to avoid doing exactly that and just lazily dump on the neurofunk label and add a reference to konflict etc.

It reminds me of when people take interpretations of film and act as they are absolute and precise facts So you hear some muppet in a pub saying "do you know what's in the suitcase in Pulp Fiction?" and then rambling on, repeating something they've read in Empire, about how it's Marsellus' soul without actually saying anything worthwhile about the movie but rather reeling it off as though there was a page at the end of the script with all the answers on it.

Descriptive terms and metaphor are powerful tools for modeling information but can also ruin meaningful discussion when someone tries to apply them in a rigid quasi-Aristotelian manner (as in the Pulp Fiction example where suitcase = X and so it can't also = Y or Z which may be the interpetation you or I took from that movie)

i know this an uk thing, but...


stop talking like it would be a big thing, cause its just plain more or less energetic dance-music

your arguments and thoughts are senseless just like the whole dnb itself

overproducing crap ideas to a new level is all they do. maybe add a few more layers than on your last albums and your progress is done.

the substance of a track is fucking ridicioulus, maybe you like the sound and arrangement but it goes straight downwards, nothing hidden, only concrete, etc.

you need another production, another track to keep it alive and this is all there is.


listen to your recommendations is just like listen to more or less one song, one idea and just some slightly differences non remarkable.
i can hear limitations production-wise which define this genre and thats really annoying.

its so limited by the 4/4 the drums and squeezy, cheesy, whatever sounds in between.

its so limited by the 4/4 the drums and squeezy, cheesy, whatever sounds in between.

Hense the sub-genre thing we're discussing. If you want to listen to dnb with different time signatures or granular ideas, you'll want to be hitting up a different sub-genre (because trust me, it exists. It's just a case of most people listening to this can't groove to 5/4 beats so it's less popular ;)

And limitations exist in any genre. That's what make them a genre. You don't see anyone saying "oh rock music is so fuckin' full of guitars and drums" because that's just stupid.

And traditional dnb and various sub-genres can be very limited to certain parameters, but the artists behind them often have a vary varied background (many coming from jazz, blues etc) so many experiment with what they're doing. Personally I'll listen and play anything (I'm a guitarist first, production second) but got into dnb just because I'm interested in the production and the sounds (and also because I fucking love bass obviously).
If you're not too single minded about it though, I'd watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZRCP7Zw1zs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUoalaLi6BM&NR=1

Second one especially proves technically that you're right about the limitations (Teebee joking about how songs are made)

lol, as opposed to your embarrassing upload. Perhaps your next experiment should involve a length of rope and a chair :)

just wanted to show that its easy, and its not the music i wanna do in my life, maybe 2hours for fun and im better than others in weeks.

didnt saw any serious attempts of you, youtubehero

have fun with your childish music and your 27 years of wasted time

feel free to upload the type of music you're good at. I'm sure we won't laugh at it. much.

i accept only paypal donations

tsk

To add a positive note: the Foreign Beggars dnb collabs of recent have been really good. The Noisia stuff was really dope (too bad the Split the atom vocal version didn't get a release) and that alix perez track with them was nice too.

to both of you guys: dnb is a sub-genre of jungle as is neurofunk

thats why i hate dnb

its all stop starty nonsense :(

people listening to this kinda music always make me sad. :'(

Cheer up bud

DnB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaJsSGRFUqw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHMVme2sJKM

i think it's time i explored DnB

Go for it.

My only redeeming quality is that I have excellent taste in music.

:DDD

fantastic!

Thanks so much :)

I think my recommendations (the thread's original post :P) probably don't help people get into dnb because I'm always looking towards more experimental stuff, however I still love the (errr) more 'commercial' stuff. I would suggest the stuff in Thorin's post is a good place to start though. Most artists tend to release your usual club-friendly tracks (which most people get into), but also have some more out there shit which can be hard to digest at first :P

Few classics for me of the top of my head though :P:

plus cuz its got 'just one second' in there.

moar liquid funk!

Very cool stuff, reminds me of Mistabishi in some spots (which I guess makes sense cause I think they're on the same label)

If ya aint heard him check it out, all good stuff :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqeAmFjSLB8

the 2nd track is really fresh unlike the other dnb stuff of today, has some junglish mentality in the beats

made this simple track a few months ago, but im not really into it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-b0uxwmP2k

From 2009 the Joy Orbison tracks are pretty progressive, considering the dubstep/2-step side, I know this hasn't to do this much with dnb - but if everyone is posting their youtube-favorites, you should have heard this: Joy Orbison

sick thread, thanks Zer1ton =).

dnb







I take it this concludes this discussion.

This is my point, all these tracks could of easily been heard in 1995 and no one would think they were radical

huh?

My point is dnb should of died back in 96/97 it totally lost its way, tracks made between 92-96 you could tell within 3 months of when it was made, dnb got international success, producers who NEVER dj'd here in the uk were getting booked around the world(ed rush and optical) so they spent less time locked in the studio experimenting & just released wave after wave of instant gratification hoover tracks(no u turn label being the worst at this), same thing happened to detroit techno, techno got big the producers spent more time in europe and stopped putting out records

One of my friends is a well know dnb dj(loxy) so i heart stuff from time to time,

dnb up until 2000 was painfully shit almost without exception.

Also loxy is wank.

nice troll

no he really is, it's like at the beggining of every music genre there are people who want to be 'scene' or whatever and dabble in it altho they're terrible. they're tolerated for a while but soon replaced by people who can actually make proper music. it's evolution mate.

Who you talking about dabbled in the scene? tbh anyone outside the uk cant comment about early dnb, as for pre 2000 shit sucking LOL ok when all the shit now is rehash shit, same sounds, same breaks the stuff photek did back then pisses over all this current shit + all those big producers/dj are only still in it cos they can goto europe, american and make money

Yeah but alot of the people pushing more experimental dnb back then were the only ones doing anything decent, and even then it could get a bit samey. I struggle to listen to old school dnb for too long (unless it's something like Photek or even Squarepusher or something, but that stuff is more like a jazzy fusion thing then samey jungle)

Speaking of which, just about my favorite jazzy dnb song ;D

your friend loxy. he's shit. accept it.

You're germen, dnb is lost on you

just the shit evolved but the peaks didnt. and now dnb can be made by boring random uk guys that look like thorin, with no balls and no creativity whatsoever.

all these "compostions" are so fucking repetitive and maybe awesome for dancepop producers, but someone with a serious musical background will be tortured.

ahh, but now things are freaky with a cool dirty subbass, haha, such losers.

recent study shows that people who use phrases like "radical" and "freaky" are idiot douchebags.

and that people fail much more in reading comprehension

Yeah I don't mean to alarm you here, but I've got a 'serious musical background' and I like dnb.

Whilst we're at it, the video I posted earlier shows Calyx as previously being a jazz guitarist. Tom Jenkinson used to be a jazz drummer playing with the likes of Guthrie Govan. Govan now plays in dnb and electro (I think we all can agree he's defiantly got a 'serious musical background') and even plays with people like Dizzee Rascal (oh noes for musical integrity).

There's no such thing as inferior music. It's all a expression. Whether or not you relate to it is irrelevant. You might not like a style of music, but that doesn't mean it's Mickey Mouse.

i guess for uk musicians they just want to follow their folks, you know? and why not letting some jazz guy (instant win) take part of our project. they wont sit behind a computer and create some beats. you can prove me wrong

having an expression equals having a shit, cause thats all we do. were playing with our excrements, so why not talking about if thats serious shit or not.

What? No, they do... That's the point. Many former-jazz musicians CREATE dnb now. It's not just collaborations.

yeah i know from squarepusher, and i do kinda like his stuff. but for me its far away from todays dnb, havent heard his recent stuff

Yeah but my point was that many of the people creating dnb today were former-jazz/blues/whatever musicians kinda going against what you said about "they wont sit behind a computer and create some beats"

The thing with dnb in general (whatever 'sub-genre' you want to listen to), is that it's very easy to just listen to the whole picture and phase out but you can listen to a song 1000s of times and still pick out small parts and strange influences. There's loads of little vids on youtube of some nutter doing breakdown analysis's of dnb songs where he shows where specific samples come from or certain break styles. Lots of time it's stuff you'd never expect like backmasked samples from obscure funk/soul records or experimental stuff like bass drums sampled from basketballs (though that's pretty common now :p). It's al highly experimental and very musically complex (so you can see why many musicians turn to dnb) but it's very easy to not pay attention to the finer details if you're on the outside listening in.

"musicians turn to dnb" . i dont think so, you can prove me again that im wrong, and show me some non-uk artists. maybe theyre turning to electronic music but saying "dnb and subgenres" just because a track has drums and a bass is kinda wrong. soon you will say that industrial is subgenre of dnb, and so on.

you stated that most of the tracks get really boring very fast. cmon 1000s or even 100 listening is dull, cause there is still the mangobango cutting edge sample of the funky screwdrivers 70s version at 2:14.. telling you that he once went trough the jungle to get this sample from a nigerian lumberjack.

i know theyre eclectic but that needs every musical genre to stay alive or interesting. also the complexity is okay, but nothing outstanding, maybe the best in the dance genres (along with this gay psytrance, etc, stuff)

maybe im this way cause im doing experimental stuff myself ( ignore my dnb yt-vid, haha)

saying that im not paying attention is wrong, since im no 100% consumer anymore and i need to compare, etc

"musicians turn to dnb" . i dont think so, you can prove me again that im wrong, and show me some non-uk artists.

Well, for one this thread was about Phace... Who's German. Plenty of others are from Europe (mainly Holland, Norway etc), many from the US, and recently Australia seems to have had a boom (mainly from Pendulum though)

maybe theyre turning to electronic music but saying "dnb and subgenres" just because a track has drums and a bass is kinda wrong. soon you will say that industrial is subgenre of dnb, and so on.

No, I mean dnb and it's 'subgenres' (IE, techstep, darkstep, 'neurofunk', liquid etc which to be fair could loosely be the same thing). They all maintain definable elements, but differ in terms of how they use them.

you stated that most of the tracks get really boring very fast. cmon 1000s or even 100 listening is dull, cause there is still the mangobango cutting edge sample of the funky screwdrivers 70s version at 2:14.. telling you that he once went trough the jungle to get this sample from a nigerian lumberjack.

I never said the tracks get really boring fast. I said most of the generic crap pumped out by people trying their hand at it, or even just the bad tracks. I'm talking about the people who's influences are the guys who are pushing the envelope but they just copy the stuff that's been done adding little or nothing. The people experimenting with their craft and come from different backgrounds NEVER get boring. Perfect example of a scene having this effect is dubstep. There's the guys who are leading it who are all very different from each other but still retain the dubstep style, then there's the generic spaz in his basement pumping out the same 4/8T LFO wobble over a shuffle break.

And I'm not saying that the samples they use are an exploration for the sake of it. I'm just saying they often reflect their previous influences (for example, putting in some of their old vinyl) and that many of the more concrète stuff is stuff they've sampled from everyday life (like I said about the basketball sample). It always has a purpose though, not just there for the cred factor. I've gone around with a handheld recorder plenty of times recording great sounds, breaking them down to waves and using them as synths or even just in their natural and I'm sure many other dnb guys have as well.

maybe im this way cause im doing experimental stuff myself ( ignore my dnb yt-vid, haha)

I did listen to your ambient stuff (or at least I'm guessing it was yours. I found it from the myspace link on your profile) and it was pretty good, but not something I could listen to all the time. That's where I find my listening in ambient stuff takes two crossroads. The stuff that's a soundscape, and the stuff that has a beginning and an end (and of course the stuff that's both... Which is epic)

looks like ive messed up some things

"but after a while it'll get boring or the artists will find it hard to maintain the motivation to stick to it if they have no inspiration, but that's where the problem is."

maybe i formed it out of this lines that you get bored... but there was an "if"

and i meant non-uk artists with a musician backround. i prefer listen to "electronica" (gawd) where even musicians of classical backgrounds get connectet with. but thats no dance music anymore. i like the wisp and kettel stuff very much, which is kinda unique.

good that youre doing some fieldrecording which is usually a plus in a production, no matter what genre.

yea, thats one of my projects and its just music to get to a deeper state of mind,(whatever you wanna call it) its almost a philosophy creating this stuff and listening to it and its all IMPROVISED. but thats a different story.

My point is ....<butthurt hipster scene garbage>
</butthurt hipster scene garbage>

fallin is damn old, i remember it from a decade ago at least :o

gonna see raiden live next friday

heres some oldschool jungle ish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41BmynsQEr4

hold tight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9H9X2ZC18o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FS5jQPKYrY

and some old skool - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p7iR9qtxw0

sound direct.... fawking awsum m8

I'm glad for this thread. It reminded me why i hate this kinda music. :|

it's always nice to reinforce your hate :)

it's not DNB, but Loveless posted this the other day on a different site, and I've been listening to it at least once a day ever since.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCcaizeVwho&am...i97Pj4S54s

edit: wait for the drop.

God dont use that word, Neurofunk is a term made up by one horid music journalist called simon reynolds, ever since he coined the term post rock and it stuck he spent the 90s inventing 'new gernes' for every piece he wrote

dnb is dead to me i was into it from hardcore>jungle>dnb once it went international it died cos it stop evolving, and judging by that first track u mite as well listen to dubstep

Well dubstep could be seen as an evolved version of dnb if you really want to go that far...
Lots of dnb artists are making dubstep now. Just a natural evolution of the style, so I wouldn't go so far as to say nothing is progressing.

And as I stated in previous posts. I'm not a fan of the genre-names made up by people just for the sake of it ('IDM' being a bugbear of mine) but it's just easier to describe it and most people have just come to associate it.

haha yeah IDM, you know they tried to call it intelligent techno at first?

The first mention of the term was in the book Energy Flash: A Journey Through Rave Music and Dance Culture by Simon Reynolds.[3][4] This is where the English music critic coined the name as a result of his personal perception of stylistic shifts in techstep - back beats replacing breakbeats, funk harmonies replacing industrial timbres and lack of emphasis on the drop - by referring to them as, "(Neurofunk) is the fun-free culmination of jungle's strategy of cultural resistance: the eroticization of anxiety".

Simon Reynolds ex-nme writer and one of the biggest twats about

edit: the full thing just to show how stupid the term is

"the fun-free culmination of jungle's strategy of cultural resistance: the eroticization of anxiety"

lol @ anyone paying that clown to write shit like that.

Crackhead jungle was the best style ever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FGW_QNCxw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boS6cH4g6Tc

i heard this is a subgenre of nitropunk

cool :D

the kind of shit i enjoy lately:

b-complex
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cwDu2fwCx8

netsky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWL07PqIVHw

other eastern european dnb dudes like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi3JSWntydk

and for the fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhDL3gs8WO8

darkstep is bestest (tech itch, limewax etc)

i win

kemal & rob data best kk

Dunno if this track has been posted, but Yarkouy - Amen 666 is one of my favs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lcaFPb_tYA cant find a the original without a shitty video. I especially like the build up before 2nd drop. Gives me goosebumps everytime :D