ca lol

+

who won

the correct question is, who cares?

its interesting watching very good players dook it out in ca.

Not really. It seems high skilled players in CA can only rocketjump on your head. Put them in 1v1 fight and they suck. It's also hilarious to watch CA players whine when people refuse to play their RJ game and play "TDM" instead.

<cr1pton> ?
<cr1pton> you're killing the game Liefje&cie
<cr1pton> it's awful

obviously ur not high skilled or dont play any high skilled games. nup.

If you rocketjump in my face one more time, I will jump in your face irl (c) teem

you just sound stupid.

Raged that your precious CA gametype is being mocked.

i play ctf

...being mocked by people who just won a CA cup and they don't even play CA. Hahahahahahahahah.

I'll gladly not play CA if it's considered high skill to rocket jump on someone.

:-/

I hope you're not one of these noobs who only listen to "progamers" to make their opinion...
If you think that CA is only about +forward rocket jumping, then :
1) You're noob
2) You another tdm tard elitist who think that any gametype without items is not worth playing and campy
3) You can't do shit without your armors and quad
4) You think quake is only about duel and item timings
5) You think that if you're not a dueler, then you suck

Btw, 3on3 CA =/= 4on4/5on5 CA. Also, strenx, stermy and linkin are both known for their beasty aim, soz whatever the gametype, if they don't play like retards, then they own. It was probably the first or 2nd game of strenx & stermy, whereas it was like the 36363 games for vium/ibo/sanji. It was 3a.m.
Procedemus won like 3/1 against linkin/deus/deji at the final, and then they lost the last decisive game, cuz of stermy & strenx ofc (and linkin aswell). Coming from the LB, they had to win 2x bo3, then won the first pretty easily, and deus/deji are both highskilled tdmers (linkin too). k1llsen participated with his team (playmatez), they didn't go the to final... And some high skilled tdm teams participated aswell, they didn't do that good.
If you think that CA is only about camping, +back rail, mindless rocketjumping and spamming, then i guess that's just that you don't like CA, which doesn't mean that CA is a noob gametype. Proper high skilled CA requieres good coordination, good positioning, optimal weapon usage, optimal round start more.

don't feed the trolls. Its like religion for them.

First set:
7-10
6-10

Second set:
8:10
10:5
10:4

Yeah looks like pcm won all their maps easily and then we won all maps by luck after that.

/end

pcm - teem
10 - 7 dm6
10 - 3 ca1
2nd set
10 - 8 dm20
5 - 10 ca1
4 - 10 ca3 (with stermy, strenx & linkin)

http://www.quakelive.com/#profile/matches/sanji (last 5 games of saturday)

Btw i didn't say it was luck :). I just think that they would've have probably won the cup without stermy & strenx :).

I love how you ignored the quote from cr1pton crying that people weren't playing +foward RJ spam and that it was killing the game.

My response to 1, 2, 3 and 5 is ad hominem.

Your 4th point is completely irrelevant to the discussion, as I've said nothing about the 'elitism' of timing items and the game being duel only.

"If you think that CA is only about camping, +back rail, mindless rocketjumping and spamming, then i guess that's just that you don't like CA"

I didn't say CA is all aobut camping, +back rail. I said trying to win a game by RJing on top of someone is noob and if that is considered high skill tactics then I'd rather play something else that requires skill.

"Proper high skilled CA requieres good coordination, good positioning, optimal weapon usage, optimal round start more."
Yes, which are skills common to all mods, and when pcm couldn't do their RJ-on-enemy-head-at-the-start tactics they got owned. Considering pcm are supposed to be a high skilled CA clan I consider that the determining factor in making a team high skilled in CA. Shame they still got owned.

"Yes, which are skills common to all mods,"

Not for "optimal round start", sure at duel you have to take the right path at the beginning of the match to get the right items etc... but it's still different to CA. What i mean by optimal round start is running as fast as possible to your position, and this position is basically never the same. You have to adapt your position on your opponent style of play, you have to change your position each time you think the way you were positionned the last round(s) isn't effective enough, and you have to still take into consideration the position of your m8s aswell.
And i think that for "optimal weapon usage" it's even more important in CA than at any other gametype, cuz at some weird situations, you could think that this or that weapon is the optimal choice but in fact you're totally wrong :). Hard to explain, you have to experience and be aware of it yourself to understand what i mean :). Well, you could replace it by "optimal weapon choice".

And if you still base your opinion of CA on 2 or 3 3on3 games, then i can't do anything for you... You should seriously stop your RJ obsession...

I keep going on about it because that was the only way pcm (and fsn) were able to win most of their rounds. It was a big part of their game, and it's one of the most unskilled, noob-friendly ways to win.
Anyone can have a RJ script and run into someone's face at the start of the round, hit the button and take no damage while dealing a significant amount to the enemy. If you don't consider that to be retarded then we should stop arguing.

Yes i stop arguing with troll.

Bye. :)

A troll with a reasoned argument.

a bad troll you mean lol

ad hominem - you can't win an argument without it.

I'm pretty sympathetic to what Antroz is saying, and nowhere in this thread does anybody actually rebut his assertion: that a big factor in CA success is no-self damage, leading to numerous point-blank rocket shots with absolutely no consequences to the player and huge splash dmg to opponent.

Used to hear this debate back in the q2day...I argued IN GENERAL the best TDM teams were more skilled than the best RA2 teams simply because the skillset needed for success in tdm was bigger than RA2's. Plus the results of matches bore this out: RA2 match outcomes were pretty unpredictable, the smaller skillset allowing more players to succeed more quickly than the harder-to-master TDM playstyle.

These facts always got lost in the arguing because some of the top q2 TDM'ers were also duelers, and duelers can have egos that muddy and distract from the core argument.

Don't even get me started on +hook! haha

ra3 matches (for NA) always had self armor damage on, as well as falling damage. Hence the skill in breaking your fall with a well timed rocket.

CA needs a match mode like tdm has (CA pro?) that has fall damage/self armor damage on for match play. Maybe even team armor damage on too.

yeah i agree that ca should be like tdm.

...

CA needs a match mode like tdm has

not to be confused with,

CA match mode needs to be like tdm

understand troll?

still, what you are suggesting is retarded. And i guess you don't even care that much about CA. So pls, we don't care about your clueless opinion, noob.

"Plus the results of matches bore this out: RA2 match outcomes were pretty unpredictable, the smaller skillset allowing more players to succeed more quickly than the harder-to-master TDM playstyle. "

Once again the same "blabla tdm is harder than CA, blablabla".
I don't understand why people are always stupid enough to think that the more things you have to concentrate on, the harder it is and the more skilled it is. It's like saying that formula 1 drivers are not skilled cuz you know they don't have to change gears manualy and they basically only have to concentrate on their trajectory. It's not as if it was easy to hit 65% rail 45% in every situations, it's not as if it was easy to do flawless RJs during every single game, it's not as if when you reach a certain lvl of play, there's nothing to improve anymore.... I mean, sure you don't have to time, sure you don't necessarily have to run to get the items, you don't have to elaborate "complex" strategies, but still you can ALWAYS improve your aim/coordination/positioning etc... And the fact that you don't need to time etc also means that you can concentrate 100% on the "basics" : aim/dodges etc, which means that theorically someone playing CA for like 500hours would get better aim than someone playing tdm for 500hours, cuz the tdm player has to concentrate on many things at the same time (not to mention the fact that he doesn't spawn with all the weapons), he would be basically 70% aim and 30% brain, while the CA player would be 85% aim 15% brain. But anyway, aim also comes from the brain, soz... And aim is also a matter of prediction :)

If CA is more about aim than TDM, why did the TDM players outaim the CA players, as you pointed out earlier?

If your going to call strenx and stermy tdm players... What I saw was a bunch of big ego tdm players getting outaimed and outplayed before calling in their buddies because they couldn't win themselves.

let me explain :

strenx, stermy and linkin are "pro" while sanji vium and ibo are "amateur".

Annnndddd, as i said many time, these 3 players are known for their beasty aim, annnnd, it was 3on3, annnddd 3a.m.

Look at the other tdm players :)

Oh and btw, strenx played some ra3 back in the day, and linkin is like all around player, he can play tdm/ctf/ca/whatever, and be good at both of them :)

I find it amusing how you fixate on stermy and strenx when they only played one map. Strenx and stermy don't explain how pcm lost in the first round, they weren't playing then. Wasn't 3am either.

I will admit playing CA takes skill, but those skills are not what you're making them out to be. CA has mainly two points that CA players are better at than players from other gametypes:
Position yourself for maximum damage when you're invulnerable (i.e. rocket jump in the face)
Try to fight against only one player at a time with your teammate(s) (i.e. gangbang someone)

If you like that in a gametype, that's fine, to each his own. But stop pretending like CA is really about something else.

"I find it amusing how you fixate on stermy and strenx when they only played one map."

They played the last decisive map of the final. And strenx played some french CA pickups, and he's good if you don't ask him to play 100% teamplay (which is perfect for 3on3, cuz 2on2, 3on3 is more about "ok +back if they are 2/3 at you, ok, +forward if you are 2/3 on the same guy, OR, ok noone else there, let's do an 1on1 shaft battle, i know i will win this one"). Strenx is all aim :). Stermy is all aim aswell :). Same for linkin :).

"Wasn't 3am either."

It was in france (sanji), and maybe it was something like 2-1.30 a.m for ibo/vium ? (i might be wrong there though :)).

"I will admit playing CA takes skill, but those skills are not what you're making them out to be."

CA = aim/dodges/positioning/coordination. That's all, easy to understand :).

"Position yourself for maximum damage when you're invulnerable (i.e. rocket jump in the face)"

Rocket jump obsession, really, and what's wrong with rocket jumping btw ? Proper rocket jumping take skill ! And no, you're nowhere near "invulnerable" like you try to convince us.

"Try to fight against only one player at a time with your teammate(s) (i.e. gangbang someone)"

Nop. Trust me, with proper teamplay, you'll never be in a 2on1 or 3on1 situation... But playing with linkin and deus can be a pain, cuz they both got insane rail (but average lg/rl skill for deus at least), soz don't expect them to cover you or not +back :).
And also, what's wrong with gangbang, it's a team gametype btw, why wouldn't you try 2/3 on 1 when you have the possibility ?

"If you like that in a gametype, that's fine, to each his own. But stop pretending like CA is really about something else. "

I'm not pretending CA is really about something else, i'm just arguing to show to tdm ego whores that CA is not only about "blabla rj blabla all camp blabla all rail blabla noob gametype". You guys started with that, soz i just try to defend the gametype, that's all. CA is more about aim, tdm is more about "brain", that's all :). And aim comes from the brain :P.

Annnnnnd you're whining about who won while making excuses for who lost.

Oh and btw, since it was 3am you should have just went with: "strenx was drunk and tired after being out partying all night."

per1klez, i won't argue with you, you are 19yo and retarded.

Bye.

just as old as your buddy strenx!

:))))

Heartless said:

"I don't understand why people are always stupid enough to think that the more things you have to concentrate on, the harder it is and the more skilled it is."

So far so good, but then he restates my argument in an overly simplified analogy:

"It's like saying that formula 1 drivers are not skilled cuz you know they don't have to change gears manually and they basically only have to concentrate on their trajectory."

That's called a "straw man fallacy" You incorrectly restated my argument in easy-to-refute terms. I never implied CA players are not skilled. So far NOBODY has even attempted to refute antroz's chief issue: (except for per1klez' useful comment)

Rocketing a close-by opponent in tdm can be a very subtle, one-or-two pixel off aiming challenge full of dangers. Blow yourself up or take damage and fall off a ledge cratering...a challenge completely absent from the CA skillset.

*** easy to stop the thread right here though, because one picks a mod to above all -- HAVE FUN!! I think there's an undercurrent of sour killjoy here: Procedemus has some awesome players that really like the mod and do well playing it.

The technical discussion we're having here about the different skillsets should've happened outside this thread. I'm guilty of participating in undercutting PCM's success. I should really just watch the demo(as I usually do) and comment on cool frags and nice moves. *** carry on

WRC rally > formula 1

Gonna have to disagree with you on that brah

"I never implied CA players are not skilled."

Fine then :).

But still, some people there don't seem to realize that... :P

"Rocketing a close-by opponent in tdm can be a very subtle, one-or-two pixel off aiming challenge full of dangers. Blow yourself up or take damage and fall off a ledge cratering...a challenge completely absent from the CA skillset."

You know why deji is whining about RJing at his face ? Cuz he was playing with deus and linkin, both known for their rail. Deus and linkin are REALLY good back dmg players, but i guess they somehow lack the "regroup like good spartiates" kind of mentality :), if you see what i mean. Many times the pcm guys rushed them at start cuz teem didn't seem to want to regroup at the "normal" regroup positions, they tried to avoid melee fights as much as possible. So many times it was like :

teem : "okay just +back at the other side of the map, and then FFA with rail and +back spam rockets, just try to stay alive as long as possible, kill 1 or 2 guy(s) and then rush the last one(s), we can win this way, hf (oh and btw, don't forget that CA is a lame gametype for noobs, so all you have to do is lame as much as you can, hf)"

procedemus : "okay they're trying to trick us, guys just don't regroup at the normal meet point, just try to be 5 steps ahead from them. *round start*, ok fine we got deji, deus and linkin left. Ok fine, deus down *deus whining like a bitch*. Damn this deus man is annoying, and btw, where is linkin ? Omg linkin backrailed me twice, and i'm dead :(. FFS, where is he ? Ok, found him, gogo 2 on him, one of us is almost full, let's try mindless defrag rocket jumping. Fine, linkin is dead. GG."

Thanks for bringing the discussion back to the specifics of this particular match; I think it derailed when discussing the broader, general points.
Heartless you've got a much deeper and detailed insight into this mod than I do for sure, didn't know a lot of the more subtle strategies going on, which makes sense given 5on5 dynamics.

To end my contribution to the thread:
Seems like if somebody wants to play CA competitively, like any other mod, don't make assumptions about it or underestimate what's needed to succeed; study good teams/demos and humbly emulate. Know that sounds corny, but that's just me.

p.s. Heartless, you're tough to argue against, because you write so well! I used to analyze q2 demos and write reviews for an old site q2players.org, and you have a knack for breakdown.

^^^lol'd me so hard. [ + ]

haha so people can't beat a newb strategy or rjin in their face? hm who is the newb now.

What you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. May God have mercy on your soul.

the good thing about CA is that the ingame whine is only bested by the related whine outside the game.
Thx for making this enjoyable.

This conversation is boring and is now about pictures of trains:

http://www.rps.psu.edu/probing/graphics/train.jpg
http://www.wattman.ca/Files/images/img_trains_001d_440px-001.jpg
http://airport-train.co.uk/pictures/Airport%20Train1.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__kBOrzbxBa0/Rn_WRgJ...engine.jpg
http://www.greatamericantrain.com/images/SmPh..._large.jpg
http://www.congenjamaica-ny.org/Sitepics/train.gif
http://louisbrailleschool.org/image/train-set.jpg
http://www.gwtravel.co.uk/trains/trans_siberi..._image.jpg

I like whinearena, and turtles

http://thechickendiaries.com/wp-content/uploa...-Train.jpg

inline images make this more fun :(

Proper high skilled CA requieres good coordination, good positioning, optimal weapon usage, optimal round start more.

So does every other game type, with the extra added dimension of timing.

Rolled.

No. Read my others replies.

Someone just said the same thing as you, but cba to find my reply.

go watch someone +back in duel then. faggot.

I don't watch duel. ZOMGWTFBBQ??!?!?!?!1one

hence why I asked, maybe that's the correct question for you.

pcm won the first bo3, then fnatic swapped and put strenx and stermy in and won the cup

strenx and stermy only played the last map.

that's what i meant

3v5, srsly?

And who is Sanji? :S Cant imagine it was the best player to spec with these lineups.Thx for up tho

I agree i wanted to watch strenx/stermy or linkje.

i love whinearena

sanji is nice to watch, good rl, fast play style.

ca can be played several ways, the hate of playstyles is as old as ra3 at least, probably ra2 even :). you can play quite tactical, slow, without much jumping, rely on your aim only, or you can move fast, and jump in the faces :D, flick rail and roxing while flying etc :)

in the end there is no "right" playstyle or most success garanteeing.

you need teamplay like in every other teammode, but the rj'ing is thought as the essential part in this gametype, so it's a bit lol other mode players like to call that noob shit :D.

essential part of this gametype IS noobshit

and that's the fun part \o/

Don't think I've ever played/watched a CA game that hasn't involved whine


What does CA stand for anyway? Cnut Arena?

Whine is everywhere, not only at ca :)

The whine in TDM has desolved pretty quickly since kazulama quit playing. ;D

enter DFM.

CA is pretty good for anyone who wants to work on their aim. Since you don't have item timings to care about or power ups to hog, you can actually use all the time to refine your aim and improvise on weapon choices. This automatically affects the aim and positioning aspect of your duel game because you finally know which weapon is effective in which situation. The added advantage of having multiple opponents keeps you on your toes.

I prefer 2v2 TDM and CTF because 2v2 CA doesn't make sense to me at all. I usually like to see at least 3 or more player games in CA because they're fun. 4v4 TDM feels too crowded but that can depend on the map.

K1llsen's duel game is nothing less than CA itself (if you keep aside the timing aspect). He always RJ's to the RG in DM6 if he gets an RA + Rocket spawn and then further jumps to YA from RG (what he did with Purri and Abso in EPS). So it's unfair to call CA boring or useless coz a lot of players use their CA aim and positioning in duel games.

Exactly.

But i would add that overall, the CA players are pretty bad/not that good at duel, cuz of course of item timings, map routine etc... But also cuz at duel, you need good 1on1 abilities, like good shaft accuracy when your opponent is trying to dodge. At 5on5 CA, you need more "arcade/bot/linear" aim with shaft, which mean that you have to do MAXIMUM of dmg in the back of your opponent, many times.

K1llsen is insane at pub CA, he's still good at "tournament" CA, but I know some players who are better than him, like for example the british player zsx (dignitas/zsx), playing for the "french" CA clan "ouch!".
K1llsen is insane with "hit & run, hide & seek" rails, and he got a good defensive and even offensive rocket, but his melee ability as well as his "shaft lock" ability are not THAT good, i mean he lacks some rambo rocket aim and some stable shaft aim :).

its hard to have shaft aim with k1llsen type sensitivity but he does a decent job, watching him is generally fun until he gets into super +back mode.

yes i agree :D

imho k1llsen is one of the most enjoyable player to watch

Dunno but I think it would make sense for him to use LG with lower sens. The only reason I could think of is that his preferred high sens and then a sudden transition to low sens (LG) ends up making his LG a tad weaker. I'm just speculating though. Can someone dig out his config and list his LG sens?

When I started watching k1llsen's games a bit more seriously, I could tell he was/is a CA player. I've barely seen him caring about his health/armor and go for that RJ if he knows it will result in a kill. Many duelers are pretty cautious on the other hand and will use RJ only to get out of an unwanted situation.

I've never seen zsx playing but I'll sure look around for his games. Thanks! :)

no whine no fun , no whine, no noob a fact , who whine ?, only noob on ESR who play public

camp arena :(

i don't understand how this mod can be played competitively,its like counter-strike without the objectives (planting bomb-deactivating bomb)

unlike TDM which is hide arena till powerups come. or mindless rush to RED ARMOR till we gain control!.

exactly,TDM has powerups and items

in CA,there are no objectives other then to stay alive ,so spam rox,nads and plazma until you run out of ammo ,then LG rush

gg

brilliant mod

As if having a clock and waiting for an item spawn while being in one room is any different. Honestly you just sound stupid. OMG IT TAKES SO MUCH MORE BRAIN POWER to time 25 35 seconds.

thats dm14 ,but even that is waay more exciting and meaningful then ca

i don't understand how you cant see this

he's just a "troll", not sure why you're trying to argue with him

depends for who...

agreed. ca is about positioning, aiming and flying around. sure on pub matches its also alot about dudes camping and spamming but you dont have to adapt to that to have fun imo. you can play it however you like if you aren't a stats-whore. imo the only major differences to other mods are the objectives (just kill everyone) and that you don't have to focus for a long timespan. also what makes ca stand out is the crazy action, nice frags etc (sure you can have that in ctf and tdm, holy shits and what not but its not as frequent). if some don't like that, fine, but treating ca as the inferior mod is just retarded, zomg timing items is rocketscience!!1 anyway in every mod its all about how you play it really (like ctf and tdm can't be played boring aswell). and if you don't like it, just don't play it and most important dont whine like a bitch.

unreal tournament had instagib and clanarena as eurocup gametypes for a reason, so did quake with duel, tdm and ctf

explanation

ca and instagib are for new players

Just found out about this thread. That was fun.

wow that was boring!

It's easier to be good in CA than any other mod (tdm, ctf, 1v1) . It's a no brainer, seriously.

BUT

Being good in CA can give you an advantage in other mods but mainly in regards to aim/positioning/weapon choice. Also it can assumed that your rocket jumps will be better which can be helpful especially CTF.

ok mr.einstein

awwww dont be sad little girl

lol

tdm is so much harder than ca

enter DFM.

voted 4 just for the lulz

rofl ratings. :d