I think the G9 has the best shape out of any mouse ever. It's the only claw/finger grip mouse that has functional side buttons (i hate mice that have side buttons on BOTH sides since the ones on the left side always end up being where I want my ring finger for me)
That said it's way to fucking heavy and also the sensor of the g9x is shit havent used g9

I'd recommend trying the Intellimouse Explorer 1.1 (not wmo), it's small and has side buttons. Xai would probably also fit your taste for a shape but tbh i think the 1.1 has a far more reliable sensor (it doesnt have the stupid ass positive accel that all avago 9500 mice like the xai have)

swedish site but just so you can see what mouse I'm talking about.
http://www.maxfps.se/product_view.aspx?productid=210

Isnt the Xai similiar shaped to the Deathadder though ? I just want to avoid being forced to rest my palm on the mouseback, since it takes control away from my fingertip grip.

Thats exactly why the salmosa or kinzu feels perfect but they lack those darn mouse buttons.

skipped my reply? :P
Xai is about the same shape as Kinzu

Well then don't get the xai, i didnt even really recommend it anyway. i recommended intellimouse explorer 1.1 which fits your needs perfectly and is deffinetly the mouse you should get.
EDIT: OOPS i never recommended you the 3.0 wont fit a claw grip I MEANT OFF COURSE THE IE 1.1 which i linked in the first post
its seriously the perfect mouse for you i dont understand why youd want to get anything else

The Xai is about the same shape as Kinzu (sortoff IMO1.1/WMO) but with side buttons.Seems to fit your needs. I like this mouse coming from an IMO1.1. The accel "problem" is overrated, its really a small difference, you wont notice untill you measure. Many mice had the same problem in the past, noone was bothered back then.

This pretty much. The thread starter's mouse history is near identical to mine. WMO to MX518 to Diamondback to Deathadder.

Now I use the Xai which to be honest, is probably the same size as the diamondback, but just a lot easier to grip (claw kind of grip). The accel is so overblown. I really don't notice it and I use a very low sensitivity and frequently flickshot.

"The accel is so overblown"

Why people are whining here

:

http://www.fragyou.net/2009/10/15/steelseries...re-update/

???

Because that's the kinzu? :P

the Xai is not differente to the Kinzu

it is

Same sensor so sames bugs = same mouse.

lol, Xai and Kinzu doesn't have the same sensor, the sensor isn't even from the same manufacturer

U don't need to add "lol" ... I thought it was the same sensor, because it look the same

:

http://pici.se/pictures/wIhjosQRR.jpg

Ok, so everything is clear.

You thought it's the same sensor because the have the same shape only with a different size?

yeah baby, and i am sure i am not the only one.

I admit that there were many "so much extra money only for sidebuttons" but I didn't think people really thought it's the same sensor.

So, now you know, that's all that matters. :D

i thought laser wasn't good or is that old news?

mx518 is from 2005. So much 8 years.

even if it doesn't have side buttons wmo is the best really so you should at least try it since it's very cheap.
If you really want them use ime 1.1, but wmo is easier to lift (shape) and ime has only 1 side button per side (not 2).

yeahhh

yeahhh

that thing is disgusting
its made out of metal for crying out loud, it probably weighs more then 200 grams
how the hell that piece of shit is alowed to be released and marketed as something for GAMERS who want LIGHT MICE if theyre not IDIOTS is beyond me

Whre do they market it at gamers who want light mice?

That's maybe what we want but most people don't care and even put the wheights in their Kones, G500s or whatever.

From what I have read from a guy who could try the mouse on a LAN it is heavier the common mice like MX518, DA or Imperator but not by a ton (comparable to a Boomslang CE2007).

OMG wtf mouse is that lol?

does that thing have a jet engine on it LOL

holy shit it comes with miniguns

WMO
Icemat
Swedish lessons
Aim super overload

the average girl dates 24 men before finding mr right

so just keep plugging away


http://ow.ly/1Edxz

the average girl in africa u should say is raped by 24 men in the bushes before finding mr "awwww whatever we both got hiv so lets make some children"

as opposed to the average polish girl, who is courted by 24 pairs of shoes?

That wasn't really funny. You cannot put the shoes thing into ANY context and make sense at the same time.

put...shoe... into....

what?

put.....polish....shoe-stealing........joke.......into......any.......context

understand?

next time you reach for your cellphone and it is not there remember this post

next time you reach for your shoe and it is not there remember this post

back on topic just get the ie1.1 already

Just save ur time and get the Ikari optical

That shit is horrible for anything other then palming. Try as I might to use it, it just gives me RSI -.-

Guess I'm a Palmer then. Still got better aim than you.

I never had a problem clawing the Ikari allthough I can claw the Xai much more relaxed.

You can claw it, it's just... shit for it.

Not my experience but ofc I wouldn't see the Ikari as a Claw-Mousw.

That's what I mean. You can do anything grip with any mouse. Hell, you can grasp it between your buttcheeks so long as it gets results :D

Just the Ikari really doesn't suit clawing/fingergrip imo. You can do it sure, but there's just so many better options out there

Why do you need side buttons so much? If you just give up that need, you'd be fine with the Salmosa or Krait.

personally, I don't use side buttons in games that much, but they are great for others things:

you can bind copy&paste or other standard stuff for people who don't like keyboard short-cuts.
I personally use alt-f4 for one button and one fore globally changing winamp songs.
sure it's not necessary but quite convenient.

Thank you for all the responses ( well except the spam :| )
Im pretty sure I had the mx518 longer than 5 years but then again my memory hasnt been the best recently.
I will definatly try out the intelli 1.1 and have a look at the Xai aswell, that thing is pretty darn expensive though. Here i nthe UK I find it hard to find an electronics shop where they have such an asortment, so I might have to wait another month until im back to germany.

Yeah I really do need those side buttons, push to talk and other things I usually put on those, Im just so used to them.
Does the Diamondback have got any accel? If so I never noticed it much tbh, so then it wouldnt matter on the xai either.

iirc it can handle very high speeds before you get any negative accel (and theres no positive accel) so unless you play with a very low sens and move the mouse super fast alot it does not have any neg accel.

also if/when you get the ie1.1 remember to set the polling rate to atleast 250hz otherwise it wont be able to handle very high speeds at all
xp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTfaw8GQBiw
7/vista:
http://www.ngohq.com/news/15043-how-to-increa...a-7-a.html

I'd consider trying the keyboard for those functions, as the Krait/Salmosa are wonderful for claw grip.

I totally agree, the salmosa has the perfect shape in my opinion, Ive got that mouse and love it to death, ohh if it just had side buttons.

salmosa works for me (no drivers for ftw)

mx300 if you can get ahold of one

wmo

seriously dont even look at laser mice cos theyre all crap atm

from what i know only g9 or g9x works as it should but it costs $$$$ and has some useless weights and other marketing stuff that u dont need

if u cant live without side buttons go either ie.3.0 or whatever version of deathadder

Razer Mamba is the best mouse it has 5600DPI!!!!!!!!!

If you buy Razer Mamba you're gonna beat everyone. Trust me.

edit: wrong thread

http://a4tech.ru/images/products/img/jpg/s1t12498h.jpg

http://a4tech.ru/images/products/photos/pbp1-12498.jpg

2000 dpi optical mouse.

Costs as much as a WMO.

Interpolated 2000 DPI - my X-710's true DPI is 800, anything higher is interpolated. Latest optical A4T X7 mice have the same sensor I think. It's nice budget mouse but nowhere near Xai, my brother has one so I can tell :) . X7 has 2 advantages over Xai: 5x lower price and reliability. I mean no acceleration afaik and no weird firmware issues. In other terms Xai surpasses X7 with ease.

ok so how is that mouse inferior to xai again? you wont need more then 800 dpi in an fps game.

Xai:
+ very high sensor precision, no prediction < but some acceleration is present
+ build quality and materials
+ main buttons and wheel are steadier, more secure
+ a lot better feet
+ remember 8 profile settings < but can lose them all ~once a month
+ a bit faster reactions (barely noticeable) < wrong first impression

X-710BK:
+ side buttons steadier, and only on one side
+ quieter buttons and wheel
+ cursor always follows mouse movement, no weird behavior when mousepad isn't clean
+ price

Of course you are right, 800 DPI is enough for FPS games but with high resolution and high cursor speed it isn't (eg Starcraft 2).

Edit: I took some time to compare both mice and see I was wrong with a few things. Xai is unpredictable, DPI can change randolmy and profiles can be lost without a reason. It has some negative acceleration and scroll wheel sometimes skip one "click". X-710BK is more reliable. I think the Xai is good for high sens and X7 for anything else.

It's enough for sc2 in 1920*1080 too. 1:1.5 or 1:2 ratio and you're set. Don't even think about pixel perfect precision with such a high res.

Why not pixel precision? My A4T X-716f broke 2 months ago after 4 years of usage. It had hardware 1600 DPI. I am a bit disappointed new X7 I bought has Agilent ADNS-3060 instead of 3080 the old one had. It isn't clear which sensor is in X7 model from 2ShellBonus post. I dismantled mine to find out.

Because it's physically impossible with a high dpi mouse, so slow it's unplayable with a 400dpi mouse and, most important : useless.
You don't care about being 3-4 pixels off when you were aiming to land your cursor on the center of a whateverdozenpixels wide tank "selection hitbox" + you can't SEE you're not perfectly where you wanted to be unless you pause the game and pop out a magnifying glass.
As long as you use a kinda reliable sens multiplier that gives you the same average results you don't give a fuck.

I still do not agree. 3-4 pixels is enough to miss, on desktop it can be annoying but you can just do it one more time. Ingame you can lose this way. It's better to have pixel precision even if you can't actually aim on a pixel. If you miss and lose because of that you can blame only yourself.

Talking about 2d elements.
Those 2d elements have a set size.
They are rather big even though playing @ high res.
You'd usually aim right in the middle of the icon.
Say the ratio is 1:2 or 1:3

If you miss those clicks by 2-3-4 pixels it means you have a shitty aim or should stop fucking around and aim for the center. You'd still miss 95% of them with twice or 3 times as much dpi.
Your hand is unable to translate such a tiny variation into real ingame mouse movements.

Meanwhile few millions of koreans are laughing at you playing sc2 with xai

Well, that was only example. I'm not into latest games (or even 3-4 eyars old) and this one is exception. My Thinkpad T40 is not enough for SC2, I don't have beta key and Xai isn't even mine :-) .

loving my Logitech g9x

there is no good optical normal mouse .

all overpriced crap like razer xai etc have light drivers-CD nice box so its overpriced .

theres only wmo and imo = negativeacel unplayable in cpm and very good old IE3 . i know there are also logitech MX but i dont like shape .

ie 3.0 use same sensor as wmo/imo, so its also unplayable in cpm :D

theres only wmo and imo = negativeacel unplayable in cpm and very good old IE3

Blablablabla I'm am_dude, I'm a moron, 80% of the quake scene plays with half my sens, a wmo or an ie3.0 and they don't get any neg accel in actual game conditions, I still haven't realized the so called neg accel I get is only my fucking arm moving my mousepad across the table.

Oh yeah, wmo = ie3.0 in another casing. You're screwed dude.

no u . i read your blabal comments on esr .

ei3.O have better tracking than wmo and it have 9OOO fps wmo have only 3OOO or 6OOOfps dunno . and more neg accel .

stupid ass http://www.youtube.com/user/falaq3#p/a/u/2/rgbWWTanmQk u suck :D You're screwed dude.

wmo hardware = ie3.0 hardware. It's been regularly hinted, kinda proved thanks to Sujoy's mousescore and is like the ONLY mouse related thing that is nearly regarded as a fact by the community.

Great vid dude. The guy gets neg accel during 35cm long 180flicks while trying to SHOWCASE the fact he gets neg accel aka FLICK FAST AS FUCK EVEN FASTER THAN YOU DO INGAME. No shit sherlock, that's unbelievable, really, 70cm/360 is the average sensitivity in the quake scene.

You say that ingame you get neg accel at less than 20cm / 360. I don't get accel in regular game conditions up to something like 35cm/ 360. Pretty much every wmo/ie3.0 user is ok with saying the threshold is somewhere between 35 and 40cm/360 until you get neg accel unless you are a robot.

Fuck off. Your mouse is broken, you have bionic arms, whatever the fuck you want, just fuck off.

It's been regularly hinted, kinda proved thanks to Sujoy's mousescore and is like the ONLY mouse related thing that is nearly regarded as a fact by the community.

I've seen the link to Sujoy's mousescore on many different tech websites, articles, etc. Even on forums/articles that aren't focused on gaming (but still tech).

hey,
how about like an ipad thingy?
just dab at the enemy on the screen with your fingers, can't go wrong with that can you?

Do I get a 80% lg if I fat finger it ?

Depends solely on your enemymodel and what u're looking to do with it of course.

Lucy.

Can't wait to p0rt her.

WMO/IMO/IE3.0 have the same specs. The new ie3.0 has the same specs as the old one besides mouse feet. You need to overclock the USB port to get perfect tracking up to 1,55 m/s, without it is only 1 m/s. 'hidusbf' is the preferred program for win XP to overclock usb because you can set it up so it will only overclock the mouse, not other gadgets connected to usb. there are plenty of good optical gaming mice available, all the logi mx, all razer 3g, all a4tech X-7 optical, ms optical red/blue (same as ie3.0).

The fuck are you talking about, both of those mice have the exact same sensor.
WMO has 9000 FPS
http://download.microsoft.com/download/E/4/1/..._0906A.pdf
Get your facts straight instead of saying random shit you don't know about.

same engine . IE3.O better tracking . im off

Same engine hardware. Not a single difference in tracking or raw performance. Fuck off

hahahah +

no dude u fuck off . but maybe u r right . my wmo is broken .

nobody cares your wmo is broken. just buy a new one theyre cheaper then your mom

Seeing how hard he tried to dodge the idea of buying another one, I'd say he'd have to try sell his mom 2 times and run away with the money.

I should stop replying to him. I feel like my english is getting gradually worst.

your mom is whore and have small penis :D

It's called a clitoris.

Guess you've never seen one before.

another smart commet . we can spam here forewa . fat ass

Nah, I'll stop the day you buy another wmo.

your mom is whore and have small penis :D

You're an idiot.

1.1/3.0 nuff said :D

G5v2 is a great mouse. Can't get any accel issues

Best mouse evar...

Deathadder!

ie3.0 is good

I remember that there was an asian "mousescore article a while ago, with more recent mice like g9 etc. Anyone here who still has the url?

http://wikis.jp/interfacedevice/index.php?MaximumSpeed_en

thanks a lot. do you happen to know if there is any other mouse with the same sensor as g9x?

g500 and xai have the same sensor

Xai, G9x, G500, Speedlink Kudos, Mionix Naos 5000, Ozone Smog / Cyber Snipa Silencer and QPAD 5K all have the same Avago ADNS-9500 Sensor allthough Logitech has a exclusive version with more CPI, FPS, IPS (doesn't really matter) and SteelSeries also has a special version which let's them do some of their features.

That are the ones I remember but there are most likely some more.

logitech does not have an exclusive version, the higher dpi and shit is just software interpolated
i dont think the sensor is very good though it has positive acceleration

I admit that it's not totally clear if the higher CPI are interpolated or not (doesn't really matter) but they have higher FPS and IPS (also doesnt really matter).

Believe me, I'm better informed in such things than you. ;)

My guess is logitech has a slightly different lens that focuses on a smaller area.

I doubt that, on the one hand FPS afaik affect the CPI (not really sure about that) and on the other hand that would have a negative affect on the IPS.

oh really? give me some kind off proof that they payed avago to develop a exclusive sensor for them with the same name as another sensor they made (if it has higher dpi and fps its not the same sensor). other then logitechs numbers which we have every reason in the world to beleive that they're bsing about.

The sensor is the best on the market currently. And I've felt no positive acceleration whatsoever using the g9x.

it does have positive accel and it is not the best on the market. the fact that you dont notice it says something about you and not the mouse in this case
you can not argue that a da v1 with a piece of tape over the sensor is any way inferior

i also consider da v2/abyssus far superior aswell and mx518 (altho those have flaws, jittering and prediciton respectively). ms 1.1/30 aswell for that matter. and krait and salmosa.

a agree mx series sensors re the best u can get its sucha shame they have prediction which can not be turned off

imagine abyssus/salmosa or wmo shaped mouse with mx500 sensor with no correction fixed at 500hz gg

lol correction is so overhyped

true

jp wiki shows it to be so in several tests. Care to share your own objective testing against that? The fact that I don't notice it is not because I'm bias'ed but because I own and have tried nearly every major gaming mouse or popular mouse for gaming (WMO,IE3.0) and I personally can tell for myself. Why would I be concerned with +accel when I cannot feel it? I own the DA 3.5 and I noticed +accel compared to the g9x. The 518 has data saturation and is definitely not as accurate at higher speeds. Abyssus has had a high % of people with major jitter issues with several pad's (including qck) so I'm not sure where you get that it is way better.

mx518 is accurate as fuck at high speeds AS LONG AS YOU SET THE DPI TO 400. it sucks on other dpi settings. (this is all mx518 v1)

i cant get it to get neg accel even if i fling it across a qck+ as fast as i possibly can, and i have strong arms.

abyssus jitters on qck+, but not on goliathus speed and many other pads.

i hated the accel on my g500, it fucked with me and messed up my aim.

You have the original firmware, or did you update it?

on the g500? i had the latest firmware last time i used it, but that was a month ago.

G500 came with updated firmware, however G9x had a previous firmware so was asking flowrush.

ms3.0

A4tech AK-47 FTW !!!

ms 3.0 and some accel ingame :)

right WMO, left 9000 dpi 1000 hz ultra mega laZer mouse (with adjustable weight)

At least most mice don't die if you take out the adjustable wheights.

http://store.9289.com.au/images/Logitech_910-001204.png

Looks alright

Does anyone know how good the lachesis matches up?

Seems a nice shape for finger gripping and has side buttons.

Just the sensor.....

All my opinions of course but i've tried a wmo which is quite nice but the middle mouse scroll ruined it for me.

Intelli 1.1 didn't know about 250hz will give that a go tonight thanks for that.

my xai skips randomly and the new firmware is just dog awful, i liked the shape - didn't like the buttons on the right of the mouse though.

I'm a finger gripper.... but I don't think i can do without 2 side buttons on the same side.

Been using mx518 for a long time but only realised few weeks ago (when i became obssessed with this kinda stuff) that my palm never actually rests on the mouse and i use my fingers.

My accuracy has never been the greatest so i fancy a change.

my friend bought lachesis by mistake cos i adviced him a deathadder

he got some problems with it in the past but after all its ok

but dont buy one while there some much better mice around

if u want laser go g9x

if u want optical go deathadder or abyssus (performs quite worse than da but the shape is better + its smaller and lighter)

if u dont mind corrections stay with mx518 or mx500/510 (take out weight)

or go salmosa

iirc, bullveyr etc will correct me, the xai/g9x sensor has problems with many surfaces

google will solve them i guess, can't remember which pads are optimal for the xai

All I can say is that my Xai works fine on different cloth pads. :D

From a technological POV hard pads are better for the ADNS-9500 sensor (Xai, G9x, etc.) than cloth pads.

i no see problem here ? 8 year with mx518 and now mouse die and need new mouse ? so buy new mx518. it hard being smartest, take lot of effort.

abyssus and thats about it.

WMO
3.0
DA
MX518