If someone is missing pak1, google might be of some help.

If you are having trouble downloading nQuake, select the german or american mirror....

Rumour has it that this might be the Viper Squads last official match, and that they might be disbanding after the final.

no wai!

How come?

Whine about not getting enough prac matches, claiming that the other top teams avoids them.....

Yet they are still the team getting the most pracs :D

Well I doubt SR avoided them in the last few months :P

Sounds like FF style bullshit where you disband purely to protect your legacy so the great team never gets defeated. Then you all go off and join/play with other teams anyway.

Hehe yeah, I like that you remember that :D

I for one would rather see teams doing like Slackers have done 3-4 times now, recruit and rebuild. They had this Slackers2 project, where they took in up-and-comers, and 4 of their 5 active members is now from that project.

However, tVS might not be disbanding completely. XantoM is leaving (quitting qw), and they are officially just taking a break. So the question now is if they will come back or not.

I hope they will, and even tho it's a loss for the scene to see XantoM quit, it is certainly a bonus for the scene if tVS continue to play without him. When they took in XantoM they made such a big gap between them and the other teams, that it's been hurting the top division ever since.

I hope to see blAze, Ihminen, Milton & diki (or other finn) back as tVS next season or the season after.

Will be pretty awesome no doubt, I actually have tomorrow off and perhaps will catch at least some of this.

Should be good. SR winning last 2 encounters with TVS, but I expect this will be revenge for TVS again. SR doesn't seem as solid last 2 weeks while TVS has started raping their opponents again.

no chance for TVS this time. Zero will play with better ping ;)

Shh

I've been thinking just the same way as Kwibus. They (SR) lost on the tb3 maps against SD who played good. But anyways, they seemed very chaotic in their teamplay and made lots of mistakes which I am sure tVS will take advatange for. But then again SR has always been in great shape in the finals. Hope to see some really tight maps with lots of action and drama atleast :)

GO SR \o/
Hope to see some hardcore action from zero as usual.

Stream! \o/

I had fun watching this footage, and I have never seen QW matches... only quake 3 and quake live. What are the reasons explaining why QW is played by way less people? Is it as enjoyable?

.

QW was too much of a pioneer in online gaming to achieve the critical mass. As a game, it's by far the best there'll ever be. :)

The game is very old so getting new players is pretty much impossible.

The fact that so many people still play it means it's pretty damn briliant. Which it is. The game was never made with the intention of being a balanced online game and that's probably why it's so damn good.

Still, considering the success of a game like Minecraft, which looks shit but apparently (from what i've heard) has very addictive gameplay, i think one shouldn't deem it impossible. :)

Actually, I don't fell like the QL tdm scene is as active and competitve as the QW scene.

That's probably because QL tdm is really just ffa with colors. There is almost no depth to the strategy in it compared to QW.

Don't get me wrong - QL duel is a completely different story.

whats this magical qw tdm depth i always hear about? i've looked at a lot of games lately, read comments etc and it basicly comes down to getting/hunting rockets and camping the area with most spawns, and getting powerups/armors. qw guys act like its chess with bunnyhops, while it looks hardly any different. anyway, even for someone who used to play QW a lot back n the day, the games are boring as fuck. 200 score difference in div1 final, really?

Blame the teams for the score difference (and kenya maps). When there were many equally high skilled teams few years ago, it was normal for finals to end with like 1-5 frag differences.

Same goes for this year's QHLAN finals which was most epic 4on4 final for years. http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1985059

yeah i've seen the game, but i dont see the massive depth some people talk about. its fine if you like the game, but its still quake

Well the main difference is the emphasis on resource control and management ahead of fragging due to the extremely high strength of some of the weapons, the powerup frequncy and dominance, and the heavy armour tiering. So, unless you are chasing a heavy frag deficit, a quadrun that kills 10 freshly spawned shotgunners is infinitely less important than one that kills a single rl, removes a significant lg threat, or forces them out of the highly defensible red armour room to secure it for your team. Also, dropping rocket launchers (or lg packs when you have a significant number of cells) when killed is a cardinal sin, intruducing restraint as a necessary and important trait.

These, and other nuances, mean that individual statistics like net, frags, damage, etc. are far less important to the big picture.

so whats the major difference compared to other quakes? dropping powerful weapons is bad, controlling main areas is more important than chasing frags, and quadruns that secure areas/kill important people are better than just fragging spawns. there are obviously some differences but they arent as big as people make them out to be

All these things are relative. Quake 3 armours disappear much quicker when facing a freshly spawned player, the armours' low-yield nature means that it is far harder to support a large number of team mates, there are more top-tier weapons, the lower tier weapons are all far more powerful than those in quakeworld tdm (with the exception of the grenade launcher) and the dropping of weapons when killed is far more common in quake 3, the quad itself is far more dangerous in quakeworld (especially to the wielder) given the nature of rocket launcher, lightning gun and the fact that it is actually 4x damage, a single rocket kills a freshly spawned player, and lightning gun ammunition is severely limited which usually means you have to choose your positioning and target very carefully because you will only have enough to kill one armoured opponent.

All of these elements, and more, add up to make drastically different team gameplay despite the obvious but superficial similarities.

yeah of course they are relative. dropping weapons in qw is a bigger deal than in q3, but in both games its a bad thing. most of the other things are simply some details from the game, that slightly differ from the other versions of quake. like the quad for example, nothing in q3 might be as powerful as qw quad with rl/lg, but its still powerful enough to change games and rape whole teams twice over and both teams need to show up for it everytime.

but in the end everytime it comes down to qw guys saying that depth = easy to play in control. like you yourself said, the armor is weaker (but still makes a difference so you need to control it) than in qw so its harder to help teammates, but good teams find ways to play around that and support their teammates anyway. is this more shallow than qw?

i completely agree qw is a drastically different to any other quake, but dont give me bullshit about how 'deep' it is. and dont think im dissing qw, i think it has some of the most awesome things in the quake-series, or that im dissing the whole qw community. some guys just preach like its quad-chess. all quakes have a lot of depth imo (and they can all also be simplified to extremes, get items and kill enemy), they just play out differently

qw does have more "depth" and it's not a mystical or ambiguous term, it can be easily quantified and the game is richer for the qualities that result.

qw 4on4 as stev pointed out is resource based, and the management of resources is very important to the teams overall success. the resources in qw are much more significant and meaningful than in ql, thus the way your team handles them either means your doom or your success.

the problem in ql 4on4 is that the resources don't even do anything. what should be a low tier weapon (shotgun) is actually top tier and spread throughout maps in random locations (hi dm6). after one blast from it your entire RA is gone (the best armour in the game), so this actually means your control is somewhat meaningless as you can only survive one more shot. the implication of this is that your control is actually quite a joke in many situations, because you don't actually net many frags at all from taking armours. so in turn this makes the game much more what people like to call, "FFA". i believe people like to refer to it in this manner because there is no focus, the only focus is on fragging.

sure, fragging in itself requires a lot of skill, but it's only tactical skill and the teamplay elements aren't actually that meaningful in a lot of spots, because one of the biggest things you can do with your team is secure resources together. but your time is actually better spent getting frags and dealing damage in places which have good position - using good tactical knowledge to deal damage. but the overall team strategy is limited at best.

something that antagonizes this "FFA" situation in ql 4on4, is that the start health is 125 and the start weapon is the machine gun. the machine gun is really good relative to the damage armours are actually able to soak up. there is no gun you can quickly kill a spawner with either unless you have quad. so this further makes your resources useless, your best weapons don't really kill the spawners quickly and your time spent getting armours doesn't seem to amount to much in overall fragging ability.

i'm just going to add before my next bit that, osp didn't actually have these problems, the mg was a bit of a problem in spots but due to the inbuilt delay it wasn't nearly as bad.

anyway, qw doesn't have any of these issues.

in qw the RL can one shot spawners as it does 110 damage direct, has large splash and spawners have 100 start hp. your armours actually can soak up a lot, for example in qw, to use all 200 armour from one RA, you only need 50hp. the start weapon - the boomstick, is quite useless in some situations (although team-flooding with the boomstick can be effective vs rls, making them do self-damage and using the boomsticks together can actually take down RL's quickly in some spots).

the above means, your teams work to secure resources and positioning actually nets a lot of frags. it's about really strong tactical play, but ALSO really strong TEAMPLAY and coordination. in qw you actually need your team to help you get anywhere. a common misconception in qw is that quadruns are there to get frags, no, it's in fact not like ql. the quadruns purpose is to give your team an edge on resources and overall control which in the long term nets you frags quicker than the other team. so a good quadrun can be denying entry to an armour area and instead securing that armour for your teammate who has a weapon but is low. 0 frags but, it maintains control and the next quad is in 30 seconds (1minute quad respawn).

in ql, you don't need your team to get you anywhere - it's much more individual, this should be fairly obvious when fnatic started playing together. really very skilled individual players with sound tactical knowledge, but players who never put any time into actually playing together or learning the maps or attempting to run distinct strategies. this is because the best strategies revolve around them all playing optimal individual games for the most part. there are small teamplay elements like the general areas to stand in or items to take but nothing which comes close to qw.

the problem is that if i stayed here and tried to explain everything about what makes qw work as a game with depth, what elements of the mechanics/teamplay mitigate the dominance from control (lg/discharging etcetc) i would be here for a long time.

you can take my word for it or not i suppose. oh and to add one quick thing, someone mentioned 'lol 100 frag difference' - in qw it's possible with div1 teams that they can manage a 100 frag comeback in under 6-7minutes if they manage to get a lock. a lock can result from bad weapon drops and so on. but this can also go the other way and make a close game look not close or vice versa. not to say that there aren't games where one team is just better.

in response to: nothing in q3 might be as powerful as qw quad with rl/lg, but its still powerful enough to change games and rape whole teams twice over and both teams need to show up for it everytime.

in qw it's possible for quadruns to actually gain a team over 100 frags for the next 5 minutes if the quadrun manages to secure solid control, it's nothing like quadrunning in ql where the short-term goal is frags. as i've already explained actually. but because the quad is every 1 minute, and the weapons are so strong, you get real options as what to go for, if the other team is locking down the map, maybe your teams only chance at getting an RL and a YA is when the other team all moves their positions to quad. there are many more options which have interesting implications.

fml i thought this post was short..

very nice post. ++
I wish the QL shotty had wider spread so it worked less well at range.
I think the q3 ammo system was probably better too.

frs? Mr. Anonymous? Where are you.

figured out its pointless to argue with a zealous fanatic that overglorifies everything about qw and oversimplifies everything about ql "control is meaningless, armor is totally useless" etc. so i'll just drop it

Except that when you compare Q3/QL with QW, he's actually right: armors are enormously more powerful in QW, top tier weapons are truly top tier and as a result control is more meaningful.
You may like it or not, or debate how much depth that adds to the game, but you can't really deny those basic points.
Besides, one of the staples of Q3/QL tdm is fucking dm6. You don't need to look any further than that to realize it's little more than team FFA :)

yeah dm6 is a disgrace, but hopefully its gone next season. but dm6 being a shitty ffa map doesnt mean everything else in ql is ffa. to me being in control and farming spawnfrags isnt 'depth', but i'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that

No, but the struggle to actually reach that state where you can just "brainlessly" stand collecting spawnfrags is where all the "depth" is at. Even if you are in control you need to make sure to have the proper routines in place in order to maintain control and if you're down you sure have to come up with even better ideas with your teammates in order to break the maplock.

Nice post man. I'm glad more people like you with insight into both the new school and old school are able to piece together the scary mystery of qw :)

QW 4on4 is a lot more approachable than duel, because teamplay can be broken down analysed and learned piecemeal.

In duel it is all about individual skill, and it is really tough to hang with someone who has been at it 15 years nonstop :)

In 4on4 there are so many more aspects that translate from other aspects of life outside of qw, and while you still need to put the crosshair on target eventually, you can make the team win in other more basic ways as well!

Nice post. Bit late seeing it, but worth the read.

The LG discharge was by far the most annoying if you were tooled up and enjoyable if you were the discharger. I agree with the weapon and armor strenghts in QW, as it did make the game more strategic, and working as a team was the only way, in control or out of control. Bring the QW rocket to QL and the games a winner. Less sessing of spawners with 125 health and mg'ing a stacked player with ease.

In QW you could have 50 armor 100 health and and RL take out 4 spawners with out losing position.

In QL no way that you have a chance with any or all of he weapons. Hence making control so much less important. You are right that is more FFA, keep yourself healthy and hidden and you live. So goes against an open flowing game. Its either sessing with mg or with stalkers hiding behind doors with 1 SG 100 HP off is so lame.

Don't get me wrong though there is needed TP in QL tdm, but it is a different style.

To be clear you're talking about TDM not Duel, correct?

I find QW terribly flawed... but you've brought up a few things that are at least intriguing.

It's always good to be a little surprised when someone explains an aspect of the game I hadn't thought of.

Through countless nights of arguing I was convinced somehow that the TDM aspect of QW was VERY legit. Now I'm waiting for that part to happen with Duel.

My personal opinion is that qw duel sucks :D

haha...

GOOD CALL!

How can i watch vods of the final?

Here for now :D