2/10

Hahaa this aint a joke, i wanna know why UT players seemed to give up on it so quick?

if ql was so great why it died so quick?

I dont care i want to know about UT2k*

And infact QL is just q3 which came out a few months after UT1....

q3 eats alive ut

ufgt

ufgt

consider your mobile stolen!

lol me? :) or u

i'm almost polak, kurwa.
i just happen to speak a normal language :-D

10-12 days later if I recall correctly

its not dead ))))

n00b/10

Because PainKiller was 10x better

The movement is horrible but I dunno why it died to fans.
Probably the same as quake, the weapons and gameplay are tired and old but at least Quake had it nearly right to begin with.
It just never ever evolved which was why that died too.

Epic's game engine and licensing options are superb though, which is the real good aspect about the game.

Yeah true on the engine thing, but people always post here saying how great it was yet it didnt last long(if u dont included UT1) was it due to the community? lack of competitions ?

It was just a general FPS game, quake has unrivalled precision/movement competition.

I just don't think there was anything to keep people there because there were so many other better FPS games coming out.

What keeps me a quake fan is the top players, the movement and the precision. I'm tired of it now, but at the same time I have not replaced it with anything becuase there is nothing to evolve to.

If you wanted more of a game than UT there was always quake.

If you didn't, there were tons of equally good games out there which were hugely popular online.

Quake hasn't evolved but its found a niche with pro's.
UT hasn't evolved and its just been replaced.

Weapons made it complicated to begin with, most of the guns had an alt fire mode which to some quaker pissed them off. I also remember hearing stories about ut2k* being dropping from cpl due to Epic switching from Atari to Midway (True Story).

It died because of EPIC who released in less that 5 years almost the same 3 games.
For me UT is the only good substitute for quake ( With painkiller)
And I agree about the movement , so boring to travel with , but when it comes to fight at close/mid ranges its so $$$$$

Was the changes from UT2k3 to 4 hated by the players?

I dont know , but make 3 games in such a short time is a perfect way to kill a community I guess

ut2k3 had this awesome boost dodge thing where you could jump 50 meters, starting from a wall, that was awesome.. they took it out in ut2k4 tho:(

It also had fast weapon switch and much less hitscan dominance than ut2k4. Great game tbh but I can't seem to find any decent server now.
Just a few noobs left playing crap mods and the like it seems :(

At least in ut2k4 I can find a few decent TDM/DM/iCTF and TAM servers.

.

IMO it died off alot quicker than just last years, well tdm/duel at least, cant even remember the last time i saw ut featured at a lan event & you moved to quake alot earlier than when UT3 came out :P

UT never really had many LAN events, but it was still generally popular as a game. The developers said that most players who played the game did so against just bots, but the number of online players were always competitive to the Quakes. UT3 sold over 1 million copies, but suffered the same bot plague.

.

Seems like that for years, when ive looked on CB its been TAM itdm ictf

.

Sorry but i*** & ca gameplay are signs of a deadgame

.

whats the difference?

.

q2 pub ctf servers have that between tied maps, it switches to rocket arena mode and your health ticks down, not sure if ra2 featured it

UT3 was so bad the fans rq'd UT games!

I disagree with the movement being crap in ut2k* (or even in UT99/3 for that matter).
I like it, especially in 2k3 with the fast weapon switch + dodge jump boost, it feels great. It's not like Quake at all but it's just as fun, simply in a different way, IMO.

UT4, was the shit for consoles, UT3/2k4 brought in vehicles and killed everything around and remains the best UT

But no one cares about vehakals in UT (though I did enjoy them in UT2k4 to some extent)

Well i agree2k3 movement was better than the toned down 2k4, like i said it was good for jumps but if you had to travel a large distance personally i found it annoying

once you played a game with proper strafe jumping, every other method feels annoying tbh

.

never played pk but did it even have real strafe jumping? wasnt it just all bunny hopping?

ye only bunnyhop ,you can move like a pro in 2 hour

.

Proper strafe jumping is Q2, and the most similar to that is Q3. CPM altered the Q3 strafe jumping to be more like Q2, however with the bunny hopping added you can't really call it proper strafe jumping.

.

"CPM altered the Q3 strafe jumping to be more like Q2"

No, we didn't.

I took that from an old interview with Arqon i think, likening the movement system to be more similar to Q2 than QW, but it was a long time ago and I could have misunderstood what I read.

double jumps.. but ix is kinda wrong too, cpm strafes feels faster its either to do with the ground friction or the air control i guess but the accel feels more akin to q2 than q3's

also 2) cpm movement was pretty much set before arQ and ix was involved, i think the biggest change he did was make the double jumps smoother, no sure if forward only was in before or not

Ramps, doubles and tele jumps as well as water movement all changed or were added, the old CPM didn't have ramp jumps. There were also significant changes to the more subtle bits like how stepups and knockback work. And of course we know how the earlier pieces work. CPM strafe jumps are the same as Q3, it's only the ground movement of the circle jump that makes it feel any different. I'm not wrong- ground acceleration has no impact on strafe jumps as you spend no frames in contact with the ground (unlike Q1 where you experience a frame of ground friction).

tBone- arQ was probably talking about the movement as a whole.

did you ever actually play pk? the movement was so newbified

.

but you seem to be trying to say PK's movement was amazing when in reality it wasnt, people just liked the speed of the game. cpm has the speed but also requires far more skill in movement.

.

nobody called teh handful of "pro" players, 1000s want vehicles etc so they play it every night

of course they do, there needs to be a learning curve otherwise there's no room to improve and be better than others. why else do people speak of how great pros movement is for example.

I do.

so you just like speed and not the beauty, elegance and precision of strafe jumping

go play a few month of q3 defrag, you can never look back

.

UT fans want to compete just like quake etc. players, and since there has been nearly no lans/tournaments with big prizes to give them a reason to compete, they have been slowly moving to other games like QL.
However there are still quite a few online cups, pickups, and so on.

(just a theory, i haven't been into the ut scene very long either)

this

I think it's indeed a part of the problem. In ql the emulation created by the remaining lans and online cup with prizes were enough to maintain a competitive environment between top players and so their respective fan base and also the crowd behind it. Resulting in a certain attention from a big enough niche of players to keep it alive somehow.

Also, on a more general matter, i don't think you can say "ut2k4 died so quiclkly", it had a lot of stuff going on for a "lot of time" and some kind of nice exposure tbh.

The game (ut2k4) is great but it didn't last as long as ut99, not really because it was less great globally saying than ut99 but because, and it's the same phenomenon even amplified for ut3, despite some retarded shit ut3 haters say sometimes and i think sincerely it also didn't help q4) but lets say very end of 2006 early 2007, the new gen of console (ps3 +xbox360) emerged on the market with for leitmotiv "online play online play online play".
Then, the (shitty) growing realistic shooters onlie era started slowly killing ut + quake imo. In those games u can't stay hidden to replenish your hp for example, how then, can they enjoy a game where they get destroyed =( ?

Also the communitarianism in UT is also very present, like in quake though, resulting in the famous my quake/ut is better than yours:

-99ers "ut2k* killed ut",
-ut2kxers "omg ut3 killed ut"

By naturally shrinking community shoting a bullet in your own foot, it will only go worst imo.

As far as i can say, in quake it's "quake 3 is best game ever, anything besides that is shit", it will never go ahead if some ppl can't give a chance to a game different of what they started with/liked the most :p .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nFA_1E5gjQ

no cooller

Ambro wins

for some time epic tried to be the ea sports of fps games and (luckily for all of us) failed, that and ut3 was a huge disappointment even for ut'ers.

UT3 [2k4] made online gaming, had 100s of servers and 1000 players every night for a few years

unreal 1
UT
UT2k3
UT2k4
UT whatever for consoles [latest]

no1 cares for the latest UT, so they released UDK

2k4 still is packed 24/7 http://www.gametracker.com/search/ut2k4/
every1 is gangsta in a UT vehicle

Who said UT was great? Even UT players admit that the weapons and movement felt like shit. It was popular in pubs for a while (and most of those were running insta anyway) but that's about it.

had tons of fun pubbin in ut's...never really enjoyed duel or competitive play

UT was awesome. 2k3/2k4 was not seen as a worthy successor by most of the UT community. That plus the fact that there were near no LANs and/or other cups meant it would die pretty fast. Personally I really liked UT3 but see why people never got into it because it was a buggy shitgame at the start. The gameplay was really nice for people who came from UT. Most UT2004 players got their asses kicked in UT3 and quit/went back to UT2K4 quite quickly.

I like both the original UT and ut2k3/4 equally but UT3 has just too many bugs (even now), as well as a terrible netcode. Plus the mouse input is terrible (no matter what you do the older UTs will feel 100 times better).

And removing fun gametypes (assault, bombing run) was a terrible idea as well, as people felt like it was a downgrade from the older games :<

UT3 had a lot of bugs but not since the latest patch. Too bad it came after everyone had quit and it wasn't all that people hoped to be. The mouse input was not terrible when you fixed it in the .ini which every sane player did. Saying "many pro's" quitting because of that is stupid. It was that there was nothing to play for, no LANs, no nothing. Buggy+No LANs+UT2k4 players sucking= fail. Removing assault/bombing run doesn't really matter for competitive play, they were never played (only in some mix cup on clanbase).

Even with the .ini tweaks etc the mouse was still not as good as in other games. And I'm far from being the only one who experienced that.

Yawn, there was no delay and no accel, what more do you want? mr "As good as other games"

It's not just about 'settings'. Think about the 'sensitivity bug' QL has right now, it's not lag, accel or anything and not everyone seems to have it/notice it.

And anyway, if you never felt something with it, good for you.
Sadly many people did have a problem with it, even with the .ini tweaks, "max frames to render ahead" set to 0 or 1 etc.

I don't know about the sensitivity bug in QL since I don't play it anymore and never noticed it/heard of it when I played. Seems to me you don't even know what the UT3 " mouse-bug" is with a explanation like "NOT EVERYONE SEEMS TO HAVE IT, ITS NOT LAG OR ACCEL!11" so I don't really understand what you are trying to argue. It had to do with FPS, if it wasn't constant you could have changes in your sens depending on what graphics card you were using.

If you think this is the reason why people quit, you are wrong. It was one of the extra pushes for the selected few computer illiterate nubs who didn't know how to edit the .ini but not why, like you said, THE PROZ left seeing THE PROZ all had stable fps and no mouseprobs.

haha wtf, I never said it was THE reason why people quit, just ONE of them for some people (who did know how to edit the .ini file btw)

No need to get your knickers in a twist over this and start calling people "computer illiterate nubs", really. I'll admit that my original post is not very clear.

And yes, different FPS values make the sensitivity feel noticeably different, to a point where it's a bit ridiculous compared to other games.
And some maps were just not FPS friendly and you couldn't manage a rock solid 100+ fps framerate on them even on a good rig (eg. Shangrila's main area, especially when looking through the sniper's window).

Since UT3 is so CPU hungry I suppose that with a quad core or something you might get more than enough FPS under all circumstances and have a decent feeling, but when the game was released not many people had a huge CPU (and the GPU matters too of course)

BTW if you're curious (guess not since you don't play anymore) about the QL sensitivity bug, you could look in these forums and see what I mean (& that I'm not the only one bothered by it)

No, you just said it was one of the two reasons why "many pros" quit which is pretty much wrong and I pointed that out :-(. My knickers are still quite normal, I forgot that there were faint-hearted people on the interwebz, sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying those harsh words.

I got 120 FPS on my E6750/8800GTS/2GB ram on all maps that were played at the time, good thing Shangrila wasn't played 'till there was an FPS version out because the mid there was pretty bad.

The main reason why the game didn't live on was because of the lack of competitive play; No LANs, no big cups. It being buggy and Epic not listening to the scene came after that in the hierarchy of "reasons to quit UT3"

I'm not sure why you think I'm pissed off (if anything, you were the one that looked annoyed here) but anyway, what I wanted to say in my original post (and yeah, it's definitely not clear) was that there were several reasons (including the ones you gave which are 100% valid) which made the players give up.

And I mentioned other gametypes because even the non-pro players quit, which quickly made the player population even lower.

Edited the original post for the sake of it.

You were wrong on the internet, I pointed that out. No need to talk about feelings or trying to act cool, I am just making fun of you because you don't know shit :))))))) "PRO-PLAYERS"

no1 on here are pro`s, they are all sunday league, might win 100 euros on a zotac cup nothing else

lol ok, I was wrong and I don't know shit, time to jump off a bridge I guess!

Time to not make huge posts being wrong more likely, feelings-man.

nice one

Nige - in regards to Drex's original post... I cant really remember why it died? I *do* remember a lot of us Q3 players moved to UT2k3/4 when we really needed a new challenge, which is how I met you I think? in levitation? I dunno... But I think when Q4 came out we all just kinda jumped ship and thought FINALLY, a new quake.... much to out eventual disappointment. =)

2k4 was a +back piece of shit :D.

I wished UT3 had more uptake and was better polished. The few duels I saw were pretty interesting (iseries I think).

I was never a huge fan of UT movement but I always liked the weapons better than Quake. Seemed to have much more variety.

With the way UT3 sold, Epic will probably be highly reluctant to ever release another one, even as a demo product for Unreal Engine 4 (massive speculation here of course).

Only true hope is Reborn :D

Because it wasn't sooo great.

UT* games have always been active in the online scene...probably at the same level as quake* but the scene has really died during the last 2-3 years.

Movement topic:
Having played all UT games and Quake games I personally think that UT games allows much more dynamic combat/fights than quake. quake is more about moving fast around a map and position yourself at an advantage. The UT games are just faster when u get into a fight which some(atleast I do) find more exciting :)

So I dont think the movement killed them...they just didnt have any tournaments eventho the online scene were pretty big (at the start of each game atleast)

UT died because lack of support from Epic, pretty much as simple as that, when UT3 demo was released it was a huge sucess, because the core gameplay was there (and was pretty good), other features like demorecording/demoplayback and even simple things like watching your ping on scoreboard wasn't there, but everyone ignored it because it was a beta. When UT3 full version was released it was such a let down because all of those features, that should have came out of the box, weren't there again, it took epic around 1-2 years to make the game 'decent' in terms of features, and it's still pretty poor (no UTV, choppy demoplayback). Epic always developed a great gameplay but never actually listened to the community fully and always ignored pretty much the competitive scene. They could have pretty easily hired Lotus (creator of UTComp mod) and 1 or 2 top players and the game would have been a success for sure. Instead, they created a console-port, unfinished, with a horrible login/user-system game, UT3 had so much potential but failed heavily on too many things, things that could have been fixed easily. UT is pretty much the opposite of Shootmania, its core gameplay is awesome but never really had the support of its makers to promote the game around the e-sports industry.

Like Hypno and Zkyp (hey there mates =) ) I think we played way enough of ut3, several thousand of hours for me, to give an objective opinion and tbh, i don't have much things to add to what Zkyp and Hypno said, it's just pure simple naked Truth.

There were several objective reasons why ut3 failed, but surely not like some (lots unfortunately) 2k4 fanboyz tend to scream everywhere about, namely "rofl it's so sh1t!!1!one!".

Ut3 would have certainly been on par in term of activities with all others Ut NP, if it wasn't released too early. " But why?" One might ask, because Midway went bankrupt a short while after and i guess they pushed the earliest release possible to make some incomes and last a bit longer.

Useless to say again about the buggy release, no utv a proper browser and some stuff my mates already stated above, and contributed to its sad fate, i would plus that without problem. The thing is it's MAJORITARELY fixed now, game is very stable and increased on lots of aspects really, and it's a very decent and enjoyable game but it'ss way too late.

An other problem, is just as old as the time itself and a question of education (smartness also some may say but it's another story). Some ppl NEVER learnt or never get taught to say "i don't like" instead of "it's shit".
You can't imagine the totally random excuses some ppl come with for ut3 to explain their own fail.
Then, ofc it can't be them sucking monkey ballz nah, it has to be the game obliviously, then once a friend say: "hey i may try ut3 it looks awesome" but then got as instant answer " lol man it's so shit, because <insert random excuses>, don't do it really" a game die pretty fast and yes i've seen it fkn countless time on various oocasions ;) .

Some random excuses i heard along the years:
-Ut3 gfx are so eye candy and shit: => Go in inis and u can adjust lodbias at a point ut99 may looks even better ( barely kidding).

-"lolz no shield gun it sux and no lightning gun" => Not even worthy to comment

-"Ut3 is so slow lolz" => ut3 is as fast as any other ut on various points

and so on and so on and so on. The ones that come most of the times with the real problems ut3 suffered are the ones not hating at it and basically just saying ut3 didn't do it for them or they just didn't like it.

Ppl should learn to be less narrow minded, and accept the fact that something which is different of what they prefer (even a bit) is not necessary shit. Would be a fkn great step for humanity and ut, also...

In defense of UT movement, it's worth mentioning that in today's n00bed-up, casual-friendly environment, your movement system has to 'MAKE SENSE' to the casual observer in order for people to accept it.

To the casual observer, Quake's movement system makes no sense and looks like a bug, because it is. Even from a comic-book, scifi/fantasy superhero point of logic, gaining momentum through repeated jumps and air control makes no sense. Your average casual gamer is just going to think it looks stupid, because there was no effort to frame it up in an aesthetically logically manner.

UT managed to create "believable" movement by animating their movement as acrobatic manuevers. It may not get up to the high speeds or crazy air manuevering of CPM, but it's believable and makes sense when you look at it, and all you have to do is tell people "push jump and double tap" and they get how to do it.

Because of this, I think the UT series could have had a much better chance to survive in the current climate, had Epic not run the franchise into the ground with bad marketing on the console side, and poor feature set on the PC side.

If the Quake series ever wanted a chance to regain mainstream popularity, it would have to invent an explanation and aesthetic packaging for the movement system. Give the avatar characters rocket boots, pistol boots (like the live action Mario movie :p) or make them mechs with wheels on their feet and rocket packs.

You could replace the retarded grunting "HURGH! HURGH HURGH!" sound cues for movement with mechanical piston or rocket boost sounds. To depict air control, you could show 2 jet flames in the back; when the player turns right in mid air, the left engine only fires. When they turn left, only the right engine fires.

Likewise, a visual explanation for carrying 10 different guns would help. Making the avatars mechs or robots, with guns that unfold from turrets stowed in compartments on their body, is one solution. Another solution is Warsow's cell-shaded approach. No one is surprised when Bugs Bunny pulls a shotgun out of his back pocket, but when a space marine pulls shotguns and rocket launchers out his ass, everyone calls it gay.

Solutions like these are all part of marketting in the modern game industry. You can't just leave mechanics as they were programmed in 1996 with no window dressing. If you have a mechanic which started as an exploit (like circle/bunny/strafe jumping) then rather than leave it looking as an exploit, it must be repackaged as an intentional feature. It has to have a story behind it, the devs have to take ownership of it and promote it as a cool feature, both visually and for gameplay.

Most gamers get the concept of air control without additional visual queues since super mario brothers.
Though I have no issue with more logical visual feedback,that can come at the expense of artistic freedom for things like characters, which is probably why they never did it. I'm sure they would have if everyone was tankjr.

Quake is just too much of a game for modern players, its not really been dumbed down enough, as a result, they are not extended the concessions modern gamers are used to and they are made to feel bad.

We live in a world where shit prospers. I think quake is better than that.
Quake is more like an art, its not meant to be easy and accessible for johnny xbox. You have to find it, it doesn't come looking for you!

People get the concept of air control in Super Mario Bros because it makes logical sense and follows intuitive rules. Regardless of whether you're on the ground or in the air, you push left to go left, and push right to go right.

In Quake, simply pushing the direction you want to go in is never as effective as pushing directions you don't want to go in. The best way to move forward is to purposely face the other direction, and then strafe in the direction you want to go as you swing your mouse sideways and turn into it. The best way to keep moving forward in a straight line, is not to keep pushing forward, but to keep alternating left and right strafes while steering left and right like a drunk driver. Using the strafe keys is a good idea when you want to go in a straight line, but a bad idea when you actually want to change directions in mid air.

Basically because Quake's movement mechanics are based on exploiting code oversights, they are all expressly counter-intuitive and appear purposely-misleading to anyone unfamiliar with their history. In SMB, you will never lose because you didn't press the "wrong" direction from where you needed to go, but in Quake, it's basically all about pressing the "wrong" directions better than the opponent.

Moreover, Mario is a cartoon living in a mushroom-fueled psychedelic dreamworld, so people are more willing to accept lapses in realistic physics where he is concerned. Quake has always taken on a visual theme of "gritty realism", which leads people to expect some modicum of realism and logical consistency. This is where Warsow has an edge; no one is surprised when a walking cartoon pig man leaps off the walls or pulls 10 different guns out of his escher-esque back pocket.

Artistic freedom is kind of an oxymoron in the Quake universe, because between the competitive players demanding neon brightskins and well-lit, untextured environments, and the oldschool players demanding dark, gothic architecture with a mix of rotting undead and space marines...the series is basically locked into a contradiction of two opposing themes which cancel eachother out.

Today, the most successful games from a marketing standpoint, are those which unify its visual themes with its gameplay and story direction. Doing this allows players "get" where the game is coming from and feel hyped just from watching one 30 second trailer. This is something that Q3 fails at miserably by modern standards.

Aside from the stuff I've already mentioned, a Tron-like visual theme would suit Quake quite well. This allows you to visually explain away any "unrealistic" game mechanics as the contrived rules and bits of code that they are, and prepares people to expect things like simplified architecture and simple textures which make the bright, glowing player models stand out.

Of course something like that would never fly with Quake fanbase having such a warped mentality as it does. "OMG this sterile computer theme is fucking gay, bring back the grunting, dayglow-clad beefcake spacemarines!"

ur describing what reborn is aiming for

nekminnit you've just created some kind of mechwarrior/COD/Quake hybrid..... loljk....

Anyway, probably a better way of 're-imagining strafejumping' would be some kind of... hoverblades?
The jump-left jump-right method of movement seems somewhat reminiscent of pushing rollerblading doesn't it?

Personally, I was completely unburdened by the cognitive dissonance of playing in my brightskinned and untextured world, but still demanding the gothic/cyberpunk atmosphere remain intact...
I think Warsow looks like a joke...
Cel shading is the dubstep of modern computer graphics, it's the first and last refuge for the uncreative modern developer. Around the early 2000s, there was an algal bloom of cel shaded games released onto the market. It was fresh and hip, and took everyone by surprise... there's a reason why it's never been heard from since.

it's true I would probably play Quake even if the competitive client was reduced down to an almost 'Ultrono arena'esque experience... But I would always imagine the game the way it was intended to have been seen...

I'm sorry, but part of your post is totally retarded.

First off, cell-shaded graphics hardly fell off the face of the earth; JRPG players have been going apeshit over Ni No Kuni all year, not to mention FPS players going apeshit over Borderlands 2. Then you've got stuff like Tatsunoko vs. Capcom, Street Fighter IV's psuedo cell-shaded look, the various DBZ and Naruto games, and just about every other indie game on Steam.

More importantly, your attitude insinuates that the entireity of all visual creativity possible in games just comes down to the photorealism of its textures, which is one of the fucking stupidest things I've ever heard.

This is the problem with some Quake players, they've had their head stuck so deep in the sand for so long, they literally can't accept any game which isn't filled with the same old 'roided out constipated space marines and environments decked out in the same pixelated psuedo-goth themes they've be staring at for years.

Is Warsow the best-looking game ever? No. But this has virtually nothing to do with the cell-shaded approach and everything to do with the amateur level of the character/environment designs and outdated modeling work in general.

To write off cell-shading is to write of pretty much any artistic style, handrawn, CGI, 2D or 3D, which doesn't put photorealistic shading at the top of the priority list...which is one of the dumbest and most close-minded things I've ever heard.

The hilarious part is all that so many people play with graphics settings turned all the way down so there's no real texture or shading anyway... it just comes down to "NOOOOO WE DON'T WANT CELLSHADING CAUSE CARTOONS R GAY. WE WANT SHITTY PIXELATED R_PICMIP SHADING INSTEAD CUZ...SKILLS/BUTTHURT/TROLLS".

I enjoy well-done gothic/industrial visuals just as much as the next guy, but there's nothing special about them, especially not where brightskins-focused competitive shooters are concerned. Any hardcore gamer should not really care about the visual style of the game as long as it's functional and plays well, yet the bulk of the Quake community, being filled with close-minded manchildren as such, will play nothing unless it looks like Q3.

I'm sorry, but your post is pretty much one giant steaming ad-hom turd.

More importantly, your attitude insinuates that the entireity of all visual creativity possible in games just comes down to the photorealism of its textures, which is one of the fucking stupidest things I've ever heard.

Yeah, that's one of the fucking stupidest things I've ever heard too... Glad it came out of your mouth and not mine. If that's the only conclusion you can draw about me from my semi-serious post, you have problems.

This is the problem with some Quake players, they've had their head stuck so deep in the sand for so long, they literally can't accept any game which isn't filled with the same old 'roided out constipated space marines and environments decked out in the same pixelated psuedo-goth themes they've be staring at for years.

Wow... you obviously aren't harboring any grudges. Go grind your axe somewhere else please... take your tablets or something. Seek help.

various DBZ and Naruto games, and just about every other indie game on Steam.

yes... just about every indie game on steam... there's a reason why I said 'it's the first and last refuge for the uncreative modern developer'.... all these other games you mention in this paragraph I have no idea about.... and rofl@Naruto. Don't criticize me for my taste and mention Naruto plz.

More like a giant steaming pile of packpedaling on your part. If implying the things I cited wasn't the point of your post, then what was it? Your excuse that it was "semi-serious" might pass if it was actually witty or amusing at all, but in this case "semi-serious" does not even equate to "half-way substantive" in any way.

And grudges? Pffft. I am speaking as fan of both Quake and Unreal here, and as a fan of deathmatch games - I wish I could say that the high skill level of deathmatch games made for a community of more mature, intelligent, and perceptive players, but with some exceptions, it's only seemed to produce a community of close-minded idiots under the illusion that being able to pull off a moving shock combo or air rocket excuses them from thinking before they open their mouth or pass judgments.

In any case, you can't deny attempting to pass off your close-minded tastes as fact and then attempt to use "Naruto" as a shitty punchline to "prove" your point. The important point an intelligent person in your position would have gleaned is that if cell-shaded graphics can replicate the style of a 2D artist you don't like so closely, then they can also replicate the style of 2D artists you do like. Unless you think that hand drawn art has absolutely no merit at all, then you have absolutely no excuse for failing to see the potential in cell-shaded graphics.

In other words, licensed games are licensed games, and whether or not the game plays well or whether you like the franchise the game came from is totally irrelevant to a discussion to the merits and potential of cell-shaded games. Duh.

I was just thingking a lot of stuff like what you mentioned for visual aspect of things. Agreed.

Someone explains how to dodge and make special jumps in UT?

When i play vs bots they use the dodge ability left right left right very fast and it seems realy unfair to me because when i try to do so it seems like there is a delay between each allowed dodges.

I always hated that delay. I can't seems to perform a simple dodge run like i saw on some vids while i can strafe perfectly in PK and al quake games. Am i missing something?

there is a short delay, also the right way to do it is dodge in the direction you want to travel and during the dodge you turn towards that direction, that way you gain more distance. You can do the same with wall, double jump up to a wall dodge away and turn your mouse in that direction

I think when you're talking about bots dodging without any delay, they are actually doing single jumps repeatedly. However, even this seems like a cheat, because they seem to be able to move left and right in mid-jump at a rate that the player can't.

Bots can do lots of cheats depending on their level.

UT3 has a 350ms delay on dodges, other games in the series have a similar default value too. It's like you do 2 normal steps before being able to dodge again.

In UT2k3/4 you can use your doble jump right after dodging to make a dodge jump and go a lot further. You can also jump once, wall-dodge and then use the double jump, and go even further. Dodging against a slope makes you slide up on it.

Even nicer than all them is this mod I'm working on, with all moves from 2k3/4 and a couple extra stuff :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-CLUUalx5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZi34j8DbLs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e100aVufSOQ

shield gun

Reborn

Bought UT3 during launch:
-try to join a server
-server browser is a POS, freezes the entire game for minutes when refreshing
-server browser doesn't show what server is what, 80% of the servers listed are unjoinable due to them being non-dedicated ones on PCs with blocked ports
-finally join server with across ocean friend, it's in US and I live in EU
-ping at 120
notice how 1/3 of the non-hitscan stuff that I shoot (plasma balls, rockets, everything) magically vanish in midair
-quit
-uninstall
-try reinstalling again when people tell me most of the bullshit has been patched
-no servers, game is ded

never again. oh and the guys at epic are pro allow micro$ofts lol big brother is watching DRM people. they just want the money

What?