i got the 7g for 80€.

i think the cheapest ones you can get are the g80-3000 variations from cherry for >60€, which use the same switches as the steelseries mechanical keyboards use, and basically every other mechanical keyboard aswell.

steelseries all use the linear feedback switches (cherry mx black i think). i enjoy typing on it, and after a couple of weeks using a mechanical keyboard, you'll notice how other keyboards are inferiour :)

The G80-3000 don't have NKRO, though. So they are pretty bad for gaming. I think the max simultaneous button presses you can achieve on one is 3-4. They also have quite poor build quality in general. They are probably the cheapest however, if the above doesn't bother you.

The G80-3000 doesn't have the nkro, which is annoying for some games (eg I can't do left foot braking +left on rally games with my controls... tried everywhere on the keyboard, and that's only 3 buttons pressed, so 2 max!)

this. i kinda regret not spending 20-30€ more and getting a keyboard with nkro or atleast 6kro.

Erm, nkro is only possible with PS2-Connection Point you know? USB keyboards don't have this feature, there only up to 6kro is possible. If you have a PS2-Version and it's still not possible then something is wrong with your keybard.

ps/2 doesn't equal with getting nkro with every keyboard, if that is what you're implying. there are "gaming" boards claiming nkro over usb (most say 6kro though), why shouldn't that be possible?

I'm saying that full nkro (meaning that you can press as much keys as you have fingers [if you are a mutant from mars you perhaps could press 104-105 keys]) is only possible with some mech-keyboards with PS2-Connector but not with USB, thats a fact btw (atleast I've red this several times in different articles about mech-keyboards). With USB you can get 6kro maximum, thats what Keyboards like the BlackWidow from Razer are able to handle. Btw the Filco Majestouch FKB104M/EB does NOT have nkro because it is USB.

It's not really true anymore, the Noppoo Choc Mini has NKRO over USB.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13825

The BlackWidow isn't limited to 6KRO because of the USB connection, it only has a "optimized matrix", there are key combinations that don't work.

The Filcos are sold with an USB-->PS/2 Adapter which gives you full NKRO.

this, also tarantula has around 10kro with turbo mode or however it's called enabled

wow, looks like the perfect keyboard for me!

Thanks for sharing :)

All Filcos are USB, but they come with a ps/2 adapter for full NKRO, if you get one with NKRO.

The G80-3000 is known for not supporting nkro.
Guess what, i'm using it on ps2. Still 2 keys max if you take the 2 bad ones :)

Decent mechanical keyboards are pretty rare to find, cheap ones don't exist.

It really depends on what kind of switch you would want, the Steelseries 6/7G use cherry blacks, which require quite a lot of force to press & thus are better for gaming (no accidental button presses), but can be quite tiring to type on. That being said the 6/7G is probably the best mechanical keyboard from any 'gaming' company.

I personally would recommend a Filco Majestouch (either brown or blue switches) if you want a really solid mechanical keyboard, but they are around £90-100.

is it really that hard to write on them?

what he say's isn't quite correct tho.

the steelseries keyboards do use cherry blacks, with linear feedback.
this however does not mean that they are hard to press or that you have to press them far down in order to get a registration from the key. in fact you can also type by merely touching them at all, yet on the other hand, you can also hammer away on the keyboard (which is really loud), and the keys go farely far down befor reaching a stop.

and no, it's not uncomfortable to type on them. in fact, i'd prefer them over rubberdome switches any day. i have no experience on other mechanical switches tho, so these may well be (as can be read on other forums) even more comfortable to type on.

to the part about "hard to press on black cherry (ss 7g)":

a thing that happened to me a few times in the beginning, after i got the SS 7g:

i would wonder why if i leftclicked a link in my browser, the browser would open a new tab all the time. after about half a minute of trying to figure out where the problem was, i would find that im resting my left pinky on the left ctrl-key, without even pressing it down.

this is about as hard it is for cherry black switches to register.

what you describe sounds pretty crappy imo, who wants a keyboard that registers klicks when just resting fingers on the keys, not even press them (down)...

it's more the fact that they go down so easily and that takes some getting used to.

In comparison to simple robber domes, Cherry MX Blacks are (a lot) harder to press in my opinion. Perhaps you're not of the same opinion, because you type differently on the keyboard - I hammer they keys down.

I own a SteelSeries 6Gv2. I'm not implying it's bad though, no, it's easily superior to those rubber domes keyboards, but I'd probably prefer blue or brown switches..

Do you actually own a 7G? The typing on it is easy and the keys aren't hard at all

I don't own a 7G, but I have used keyboards with Cherry MX Black switches, and in my experience the actuation force feels very high compared with Blacks/Blues. Maybe the 7/6G uses modified switches, but this & other comments confuse me, as why would a gaming keyboard have such sensitive keys? It defeats the purpose of using Blacks, and betrays a lot of the marketing of the keyboard.

i agree, the marketing is wrong for gaming.

but advertising a counter measure to wrong-key-presses is a stupid thing in itself.

i think the registration doesn't really differ from switch to switch. it's just the feel that's different. the other switches build up resistance in an exponential fashion befor you press it all the way down, whereas the black switches don't. the registration occurs way befor that anyway; it's just the feel of typing that's different.

my cherry g80-3000 does not require much force to press down (black cherry switches), i wondered about your comment too.

Compared with rubberdome keyboards, it needs idd way more force to press the keys all the way down, which u will do at least in the beginning anyway, if u r used to it from rubberdome keyboards.

So at least in the beginning u will struggle with this keyboard while gaming.
And after u eventually got used to it, the question will be, was it worth it (the money and the time it took to get used to it).

...is that a trick question?

yes, it's worth it (imo). what do you think?

I tried the same keyboard as u use, but it felt worse compared to my usual one (cherry cymotion expert).
So what could be the gain in the end, when i tried it for longer?

(typing doesnt matter)

world domination!

i'm still unsure if you're being serious or not. if you didn't like the black cherry switches, don't use them.

im serious.
My point is, if mechanical keyboards actually offer some advantages for gaming, or not.

if you don't like mechanical switches, don't use them. there's no secret to be uncovered here :)

if you find a nice rubberdome keyboard with nkro you won't have a disadvantage in quake.

I own a 7G and a Filco with Brown Switches. My 7G is not being used because the switches are too hard to press in my opinion.

In follow up to my last comment. I have the habit of pressing keys all the way down until the bottom out. I haven't been able to break myself of this habit. Under those conditions the black keyswitches on the 7g were hard to press.

If those saying they aren't hard do not push the keys all the way down, I could understand where they are coming from.

I feel pretty content with my daskeyboard.

I don't feel like the lightness of the switches impacts gaming at all (it's something you get used to) and I really love the tactile feedback as well as the sound of these switches (I didn't get the silent model)

I found this one here: Cherry G80-3000LSCDE-2 (has black switches as well) so I doubt there is a difference between these two (except the case)

was thinking about getting that one aswell. in the end i went for SS because what's 20€ more for a product i intend to use for 5 years or more.

I think cherry black mx is different to cherry black (there are two different versions of black switches anyway), the mx feel quite different. The mx ones are a bit stiffer and are on the smallest mechanical kb that cherry make. The normal black ones are very sensitive and quite easy to push (both versions have no 'click' at all).

I have a black cherry g80-1800, the build quality is very good, the plastic is really thick on the chassis and the keys are injected with white plastic to show the letters, rather than painted on, so even after years of use the keys are still clear, and tbh I find them clearer than having leds behind them, which although in the dark work "ok", they aren't always so nice in the day time.

I think it was only about £30 on ebay so if you are after a mechanical keyboard and don't want to spend much, its a winner imo (if you can find one). And I nkro is a nice feature that it lacks, but this still has a lot more options than a standard usb keyboard.

If you put Cherry g81 in ebay you'll see theres a grey one for £38 and a black one for £52. I think I got mine from cherrys ebay account so might be worth contacting cherry if you want one cheaper.

you can also check raptor keyboards

http://www.raptor-gaming.de/raptor/raptorUK/Produkte/k1.htm
http://www.raptor-gaming.de/raptor/raptorUK/Produkte/k2.htm

both are based on cherry technology.

I strongly recommend the Steelseries 7G / 6G v2 (afaik they are similar and the only difference is the lack of usb/audio ports and wrist rest on the 6G).

And really, they DON'T require a lot of force. You can press the keys far down if you like but you don't have to.

I think I'm gonna go for the SS 6Gv2. And you might be right, I might as well just spend 25€ more for the SS than just the standard Cherry (not that it is bad). Thanks everyone, especially dansen!

i would think a bit more about SS keyboard :)

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1971339

yeah, I heard and read about that. However, I just see this as an issue when you travel a lot, or am I wrong?

that might be true. i hope someone with more 6Gv2 experience could confirm that. keyboard apart from this buttons-falling-off issue seems good in compare to competition.

I had the same "issue" with my 7G, put them back in, end of story.

Now I'm on a Filco tenkeyless linear because of its smaller form factor.

10keyless's are sick. If you want fast number input, just homerow your number row.

?

I've got a 6gv2 and have no issues with it what so ever. Took about 2 weeks to get use to but now I cant see myself using any other KB. Tis the business! :)

i just got it today. i, too, have to get used to it. sometimes i hit the wrong keys or i dont press them deep enough - i used a different keyboard where the keys didnt really travel that far. but i love the feedback of the keyboard and also the fact that u can type really light and yet it registered the keys. and it is not as loud as some ppl might think.

Yeah man, only have to type so lightly which I now love. The main thing that took getting used to for me were size differences in regards to the backspace, shift and enter keys going from my previous KB to this one. The right shit key is tiny in comparison to my previous KB, which was annoying at first for every time I was using capital letters when typing :P

But again, used to it now and love it :D

from my recent experience I really like compact-size keyboards. The only problem is there are only a few that don't have scissor switches (laptop-like).
To fully use its advantages you need to use a different posture or change your chair if you rest your arms on its ....arms.

sorry i cant login in from here.

I have the steelseries 6gv2, it's a good product.

Typing on this keyboard makes quite a lot of noise, tho. Appart from that, I have 0 major complains to make, really.

Filco keyboard! Can't fault them

agreed, but i don't think they have a new supplier yet

Oh right, I wouldn't know because I haven't had to buy a keyboard since I bought mine however long ago it was :O)

I've heard rumors about EK getting Leopold keyboards instead, which look just as good as Filcos, if not better.

Anyone have experience with Thermaltake's MEKA G1?

MEKA G1 Specs

looks like a standard keyboard, but for $40 less you can just get a 6gv2

Cherry red switches :) rts guys over korea use them APM APM APM APM :D

They are very hard to find outside of asisa. Also I read some reviews of some of those available in the west, and wasnt really impressed.

its only 160$ without vats to europe :D

Black switches are good for fast FPS games like quake but reds would be awsum! Gonna get something like this in compact size http://www.guru-board.com/english/configurator_en

having no symbols is so 1337. :x i do want!

I'm probably going to sound like a bit of an idiot, but are the black switches really soft to play on? I get so confused with all these black, brown, red, whatever colour switches!

if u tried them ud prolly think they are quite easy to press but as they have a longer way it feels u need more force to actually press it down to the bottom which u however do not need as the key will be registered half way through. it is a tad bit harder than compared to a laptop though but really after a while this should be an issue anymore. those keyboards are designed for people that write a lot - it would be stupid to say that writing on them is tiring. :D

Actually many mechanical users complain blacks to be too stiff for typing but tbh they're pussys cuz they're not used to drum the keys like quake geeks do :P

Ah ok, I'm pretty sure my Filco keyboard has black switches but it was quite a while back when I bought the keyboard so I can't remember! And seeing as I'm so used to the keyboard now whether they were hard to press or not isn't a problem :O)

If you want to know what type of switch you have on a cherry switch keyboard simply pull off the keycap. The key post that comes out of the switch will be the color of the switch. Blacks have black plastic, browns have brown etc...

Or at least every cherry switch keyboard I have owned has followed this convention (and I own 3 different ones from two different manufacturers...

http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate-silent/

I bought this one last week. It's a very good one, indeed. But it's not 'silent' as the name suggests. I like it, my g/f does not. :P

tbh id have bought this one as well if i had the money. it is a lot more expensive than the ss 6v2. i think they also charge u more cauze it does not have letters :D

don't worry, the letters on the keycaps will fade soon enough

you could also just get a blank set of keycaps from daskeyboard or so. they should fit the 6g key as well

The 'professional' version (with letters) does cost 10 Euros/Dollars less. So it's just the name you're paying for, I guess. But nonetheless it's still a good one. :)

I bought it off a reseller on ebay (that's my auction right here: http://cgi.ebay.de/Keyboard-Model-S-Ultimate-...0524402561 )

i dont understand these mechanical keyboards, people talk alot about them being better in that they are mechanical and have a certain feedback to them, me personally, my mom went out and bought a keyboard, this was back in the ps2 days, she came home with this big ass keytronic mechanical keyboard, i was like wtf, i tried typing on it, clink clonk clank, the keyboard must have weighted 2kg, big ugly and white, like a steel reinforced commodore 64, she obviously had no clue with computers and probably asked for some strong durable keyboard and got that one. im a long time computer user and dont have much experience with mechanical keyboards other than that, one major thing i dislike about them is the form of the keys, i dont see them being anywhere near gaming friendly, big chunky extruding pieces where your fingers gets mounted on them like they are independent switches, theres no fluid movement going over those types of keys like you need in gaming, maybe good for typing letters on them if you are seated in a right position and have the feedback on them for each keypress, and a certain range of movement on the keys, but for gaming... id rather have a flat surface with flat keys with ultra fast response on the keys, and thats a fact u need, not just the mechanical advertisement when the rest of the design is nowhere near designed up for gaming.

i recently brought home a Razer Black Widow just to try it out whats the fuss about, its heavy, chunky, and noisy, just like those 1980 mechanical keyboards, and i dont see any place that its meant for gaming other than in the software for macros, its just basically an old keyboard with a glossy surface and a razer logo on it and their marketing on that they developed it for gaming, i think its all bs and 130dollars, i know those mechanical keyboards aint cheap, but to market them for gaming just cause they are durable is bs unless they redesign them for gaming. just take the long travel on the keys, its not meant for gaming at all, even some of the newer rubber dome keyboards has too long travel and always look for short keytravel cause its proven to make you quicker in game.

cherry w/ black keys are 50 bucks -> SS is 80 but looks better - urs does the same but is even more expensive. i went with the one in the middle. btw: loudness is not an issue - its a feature

why i bought it:

- its better cauze it has no ghosting
- durability
- feedback
- keys dont get stuck - happend with my old one
- force so a key gets registered is lower
- i had the k300 b4

I've never understood this whole anti-ghosting shit, are people really pressing that many keys at a time? When would anyone need to press 10 keys at once?

Forward, strafing, changing weapons, maybe jumping, thats 4, my shit MS Multimedia 1.0 can handle that.

it's just that some combination work better than other, so some quake players had to play with esdf or even rdfg instead of wasd..

have you heard about rubber dome keyboards with high key travel? for example the logitech g15? well, I've always been using those keyboards, because, contrary to you, I don't like the lack of feedback a flat keyboard gives to me.

to make your long story short (and less bs): the only reason you don't like mechanical keyboards is because you don't like high key travel.

also chunky and noisy are no real arguments. If you'd actually know how to type on a keyboard with blacks, you'd type as noisy as one a flat keyboard.

chunky: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13825

yeah now that is chunky, right?

just don't buy shit razer keyboards with extra space for your beloved macros (your argument that it is the only useful feature for gamers is ridiculous, I consider this the most useless 'feature' out of all [it makes only sense for mmorpg players.. but oh wait, THIS is a Quake forum - what a surprise]. Even when we add in key highlighting [I don't look at the keys while writing at all]) k thx.

well, the majority of mechanical keyboards does have long keytravel, thats basically one factor i dislike them and the major factor on why i dont understand that they are marketed for gaming, i know its user preference, the other is that they are chunky and extruding where they bottom out against hard plastic.

we could start arguing about what is better to type on, but when it comes to gaming you have multiple keypresses and fast switching keycombos which is different from regular "letter writing". sure independent switches which are more like mechanical keyboards where you actually PUNCH in letters are probably the more correct way of TYPING, and is probably what writers are looking for, but what has that got to do with the operation of the keyboard when you are gaming? why does it even hold any preference over the speed and stiffness of a rubber dome keyboard when on a mechanical keyboard u need to punch in strafe movements and weapon change which is the oposite of fluent and linear operation which a stiff rubber dome keyboard gives you...

i just dont think typing is the correct term on how you should execute your movements in a game. the keyboard has just been used as a gaming peripheral on the pc. take a look at the game controllers on the market, why dont they have long keytravel on mechanical switches on those game controllers? would look stupid and defeat its purpose wouldnt it? im saying that mechanical keyboards are for typing and it defeits the purpose of plugging a typewriter to your pc just cause it has some sort of mechanical feel to it that is going to last you forever, preferred by some people who think they know what is the best type of keyboard, taking it away from that it doesnt make a sense to what its being used for.

but what do i know, havnt been able to make the switch. maybe if they made them more ergonomic and smoother with shorter keytravel i would like em more.

thats about my opinion too.
Instead of declaring some old technology (mechanical switches) as anything "gaming" , they should invent new things.
When i had my filco with brown switches, i thought: why don't they put some rubber plate under the keys, which would make it less noisy, and would reduce the keytravel.

those old mechanical keytronics were awesome, you have been fortunate to have mom buy you that :p

iirc on the ice climbers hp they actually had those in their profiles.

long keytravel doesn't mean you have to press hard on the keys for them to register, see the SS 6g/7g : you don't need to press the keys harder than on a rubber dome keyboard so it's just as responsive and efficient for gaming (actually probably a bit more cos of the build quality and very responsive switches used)

i've an 6gv2 and it keeps disconnecting from usb.

it does that on purpose, so you start using the better ps/2 (not better for mice though)

(oh and sorry if you have a laptop and therefore you don't have a ps/2 port)

what are you saying rly? is it normal? ps2 is worst than USB

dft ps2 = 75hz
usb = 125hz

yes, really. if you dont believe it, use google.

1) learn English

2) (source: http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/491752-mec...guide.html)

Polling Rates and Response Times
While it is very useful for mice, it's just about meaningless for keyboards. Let's assume for a minute that all switches have the 5ms debouncing time of Cherry MX switches (which is being very generous). Even if you had super human speed and reflexes, every single key would be delayed by at least that much. So really, any polling rate over 200Hz (at best) is absolutely useless, and nothing but market hype. It may even be a bit detrimental, because you'd be wasting CPU time polling the keyboard unneededly. And unlike USB keyboards, PS/2 boards aren't polled at all. They simply send the signal to the PC whenever they are ready to, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register that keystroke.

PS/2 or USB?
PS/2 wins on three fronts: First, it supports full n-key rollover. Second, PS/2 keyboards aren't polled, but are completely interrupt based. And third, it is impossible for it to be delayed by the USB bus being used by other devices. There are two types of USB transfer modes - the interrupt transfer mode (USB polls keyboard, when key is sensed the USB controller sends the interrupt to the CPU), and the isochronous transfer mode, which reserves a certain amount of bandwidth for the keyboard with a guaranteed latency on the bus. Unfortunately, there are absolutely no keyboards made that use the latter, because special controllers would have to be used, thus making it cost prohibitive.

So if your keyboard supports both PS/2 and USB, and your PC has a PS/2 port, there's no reason not to use it.

i've created a topic in geekhack months before and they all said to use USB. And they are experts on keyboards. go see for yourself

nope, basically everyone who reads this topic will disagree with you/agree with me.

its weird. USB should be better than PS2.

just read what I've wrote plz k thx

tried PS2 and it seems that is more laggy. kk thx

placebo

you think usb is superior, nothing is gonna change your opinion period

what vib said. And besides 6Gv2 supports full NKRO if u plug it in PS/2 , so no real reason to use USB at all in your case.

absolute placebo

"Ok check it out. Lets assume that you press a key on a PS/2 board. It has to send the following information:

1 start bit
8 data bits
1 parity bit
1 stop bit
1 ack bit
Total: 11 bits

PS/2 boards send 1 bit per clock high, which means that a total of 11 clock cycles are needed to transmit the data. And while some extended keys require more than a single scan code (like the Pause/Break key), even the uberl33t mama's boy doesn't care about those. So let's ignore them.

At 16.7kHz, each clock cycle is 0.058ms.
11 Clock cycles comes out to a 0.643ms delay for a single keystroke, unless you somehow magically manage to press two keys at the exact same moment in time. In which case the second key is delayed.

This is already faster than just the USB polling rate alone, without even calculating in the protocol overhead (which is extremely large once you factor in all the different layers)."

Quoted from here :
http://www.overclock.net/keyboards/835911-usb...st10929557

doesnt the polling rate tell you how fast the keystroke is actually going to be executed? i know there is a cycle for the system to aknowledge what key is being pressed, could be different for usb compared to ps2 but doesnt it come down to that 1ms polling rate is about 10x more responsive since ps2 polling rate is 100hz to begin with?

no it doesn't work that way

> see what vib quoted earlier

there's no polling, it's based on interrupts, read what vib posted earlier.

no, why?

no it shouldn't, USB is shit really, relies far too much on the CPU (it's better than ps/2 for mice but it's still far from perfection)

well afterall it i just a keyboard. id worry more about a ps2 mouse ^^

this

isn't ps2 pooled at 200hz sir??

that's the maximum it can reach with tweaking I believe

I can recommend Topre boards for everyday use and Cherry MX red switches (45g linear) for gaming.

I'm currently waiting to hear back from a purchasing agent about this fella: http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=746

Anyway, if you're interested in learning more about mechanical keyboards then checkout http://www.geekhack.org

I use a Filco Majestouch with Cherry Blue switches. It's amazing and I love it.

i just realized i have a cherry g81 3000 which i just took home from university for teh lulz

neat xD

Razer Blackwidow is a really good deal for blue switches. My only issue is ghosting. (For example, holding E and F at the same time results in Caps Lock and Tab not registering. ESDF is movement, CAPS is transmit in VOIP)

If anyone wants me to do some ghosting tests I'm more than happy to :D

I don't have that problem.

You have the same kb?

no

then jealous :(

didnt know it had blue ones :x

What is your experience with the 6g v2 and do you like blacks? I have a 6g v2 too, but probably would prefer blue or brown switches. Neither the Zowie or the Razer mechanical keyboards do appeal to me though, I would go for a Filco (if I had the money..) even though it is much more expensive. Well, maybe someday.

After havin black switches, which i didn't like, i thought about browns too, but in the end those felt even worse.
Because the only way u can benefit from mechanical switches IMHO, is if u can get used to not pressing the key all the way down, and browns r so light, that u must be really relaxed which is impossible while gaming.

OK, had the SS 6gv2 here now too, which gave me three days of frustration while playing quake.
It feels like walking on ice.

conclusion:
CHERRY CYMOTION EXPERT FTW.
Best keyboard on planet, period.

I hope your mum is done with u finally.

go die u prick, thx

ur such a scumbag holy nuublet!

:(

U hav guts in ur mouth!

:(

so does the cherry g80-3000 have NKRO or at least 6KRO ?

im sure it doesnt have NKRO, and i think it doesnt even have 6KRO either.
It's just like many other usual keyboards in this aspect.

I heard that some mechanical keyboards have NKRO when used with PS/2 can you confirm this?

NKRO works only with ps/2, but ps/2 doesn't make it NKRO.

so what about the g80-3000 with PS/2 ?

no nkro obviously, has only been said about 5 times in this thread alone.

Any info on how it works with rdfg , any combinations I would have to avoid?

open notepad, try it out? i bought a 6gv2 recently and don't use the g80 myself.

don't have one but thinking of buying one since its like 2/3 the price of the other ones

yes, do that but realize it does not have nkro or even the ability to press 2-3 keys at the same time in some cases and it will get in your way when playing quake.

if you're fine with that, it's good, i used to play with a g80 for over a year. it's your own choice really. i don't feel like getting my g80 back and test key combinations for you, sorry :)

thanks anyway :D

I use an old g80-1861 (17€ on ebay), black mx switches, it works perfectly with "rdfg" ;)

I heard that thunda is nekro,.

:(