nerf splash and/or rocket bounce

= perfect balance

^^

Yeah I think just making the splash a bit smaller would be enough.

Maybe just bouncing, but it's good idea to wait some time, so we can adjust to the new hitbox and see what happens.

i would like to hear why you think that slower rockets will benefit aggressive play

they would be harder to hit, so you could rush somebody?? or is there smth i don't understand? now it's very hard to come near to somebody with good rox..

rushing somone usually gets denied with spam or with well placed rockets at entrances to your position, i dont see a slightly slower rocket speed helping there, on the other hand it gets harder for the attacking player to get that first good rocket hit that enables you to rush in

you don't think that rockets are too strong?? what would you do to make game more +forward or just to give +forward higher chances for success?

i dont know, but i dont think slower rockets are the answer

it's one of the answers! believe me! But with new hitboxes other guns will be owerpowered. so atm we should keep it as it is and look what happens in few months.

this is a cyclical argument. u could argue that slower rockets will mean people being more afraid to push with rockets resulting in a cornerspam heavy game. or u could argue that its easier to push in against someone with rockets cos they actually have to aim better with it. both are subjective and it really comes down to which style of player you are.

the reason why i think rockets should be back to vq3 speed with a lower splash radius is because its almost too easy to aim with the rocket now. theres very little differentiation in rocket skill once u go past the mid/high skill tier (with a few exceptions like cypher). prediction rockets will remain pretty much the same if u slow the speed down or change splash. those are about reading ur opponent right. what will change is scenarios where its more face up confrontation. right now those are more or less mindless when they do happen. its just get that rocket out as soon as possible while aiming in the general vicinity of the opponent. and i think its pretty safe to say lower speed and splash radius will make u have to work a lot harder to hit an opponent in those kind of scenarios.

Shaft is better yes, but only if the enemy lacks rocket launcher.. Now every pro duel will be 0-0 for 20+ minutes..

wanna make a bet?

i like the hitbox enlargement, and imo the weapon balance would be perfectly fine if they decreased the rocket knockback and maybe the projectile speed a bit
imo.

I agree on the rocket speed part and knockback.. we'll see how the duels will be played. i don't bet:P

while I agree that rockets are not fine, bigger hitboxes solve (maybe not completely) the problem of rails going through which was annoying as fuck

game is fine, cut the whine

youre insane

Sorry but didn't heard anything about new Hitboxes in the latest patch?!

Correct me if im wrong.

they're 10% bigger

that's what she said

i'd actually agree that the q3 rocket speed would be nice, just felt so weird playing toxicity, not at all how i remembered it

Noctis agrees! End of discussion.:P

If you want nostalgia play Q3 ffs :D

first time I agree with you.

ps. I see your opinion is very important for ID (somehow), so please ask for vq3 spawnsystem, it rox!

ps. I see your opinion is very important for ID (somehow)

If that was the case quakelive would look a lot different :p

Oh god no

so you want vq3 weapon balance back to have the same feeling on toxicity?

no i dont want 8dmg lg and 100dmg rail, what bothered me the most while playing it compared to how it played in cpma vq3 was the rocket speed and the double jumps making the map even faster (too fast imho) :)

but whatever, my opinion shouldn't matter anymore ^^

iD is just trying soo hard to make QL more newb-friendly just to get more subscribers and eventually money..It's just retarded..

So by retarded you actually mean pretty clever ?
In case you didn't know, id isn't a non profit organisation aimed to please a userbase of 200 people.

It is the nature of the game, deal with it.

This won't go away with changing rocket speeds, on the contrary it would probably be even worse with it being lowered.

If you want to fix something like this, you need to do something drastic to the game that hardcore Q3 players will not accept, such as removing footsteps, fast weaponswitch, or something in similar nature.

How the hell do u know what would happen to gameplay if they lowered rocket speed?? they could atleast try it for 2 or 3 weeks..

you did pretty much the same in the opening post

+ :D

you missed the "atleast try it part"...

in the first post you claimed quite heavy stuff about the new hitbox size less than a day after the update. then you said slower rockets should be tried out for at least a couple of weeks, and that one can't know how it would change the game before that happens.

To begin with, lower rocket speed would obviously allow players at greater distances to dodge those same rockets with a bit more ease.

Given that, obviously this decreases the options of an attacking player vs a railing or lg'ing player that is moving... backwards. What would likely result would be both players picking rail, until one has +1 rail hit over the other, then maybe a rush.

There are way too many variables for me to care about writing a long post about it, but I think the generalization I've described would take over plenty of situations.

You need to factor in that players at the levels that you saw at IEM are players that can all hit very well consistently with hitscan weapons. You will essentially be taking away rockets in their arsenal when playing each other at these events. All you will then see is pick railing to start most fights with players retreating after they realize they are at a disadvantage in the fight.

There's a reason +back RL is favored over +back RG: you are less likely to take damage with the RL (since you don't need to show yourself, just like GL), and if you get surprised you don't get punished because it doesn't lose any efficiency at closer ranges. RG does. That's why RL should get nerfed.

The reason why the rocket speed should get nerfed rather than splash is to make it less of a hitscan (the physical action of aiming and reaction times matter more) gun and more of a projectile (knowing where to aim matters more than actual precision) weapon.
This would punish bad weapon skill and reward knowledge rather than make all the guns closer to the same thing.
Oh, and I think bouncing opponents with RL would probably be harder (but not weaker) with a slower rocket speed because the timing would be trickier (instead of firing almost exactly as the dude hits the ground), while lowering splash radius or damage would probably just make the guy bounce slightly less. RL wouldn't dominate everything at point blank range quite as easily.

It would also make a bit more of a doppler effect happen when rushing with RL! GOOD aggressive RL usage would actually get buffed a bit.

Sure, all guns are easier to hit defensively than offensively but with LG, SG, MG, PG, (RG), in that order, the difference between offensive and defensive fights is smaller. You HAVE to take damage in order to deal some when using LG, even if you're playing defensively. Abusing corners and getting 90% damage efficiency is just not possible.

this

To begin with, lower rocket speed would obviously allow players at greater distances to dodge those same rockets with a bit more ease.

AKA, dodge spam that is sometimes next to impossible to anticipate in QL because of where it's coming from as well as issues such as corner rockets, which even in the split seconds between firing and landing close by (say, the rocket travelled two or three characters' lengths in total), give the shooter more than enough time to avoid any counter shots that are shot by reflex from their target. But that would totally be a bad thing to be able to dodge random spam somewhat easily as well as discourage +back play, am I right?

Not to mention faster rockets = a lower window of time required to shoot ahead to hit rockets precisely. Less thinking ahead required means less spatial skill is required to achieve the same goal. So, basically, you're condoning a gameplay feature that pretty much caters to lesser skilled people while making the game worse at the same time.

Given that, obviously this decreases the options of an attacking player vs a railing or lg'ing player that is moving... backwards.

Soooo, even though you started playing in an era where, in VQ3, players were much more selective of when to chase for kills in that type of situation for this very reason and thus were challenged as the aggressor more by their opponents, you're implying that this "setback" is a bad thing...right...

There are way too many variables for me to care about writing a long post about it, but I think the generalization I've described would take over plenty of situations.

No. That was just a lazy rationalization of your skewed thoughts which never even really clarified anything. No wonder you were never successful outside of PK. You can't even properly explain even a fraction of your thought process and reasoning when dueling.

You need to factor in that players at the levels that you saw at IEM are players that can all hit very well consistently with hitscan weapons. You will essentially be taking away rockets in their arsenal when playing each other at these events. All you will then see is pick railing to start most fights with players retreating after they realize they are at a disadvantage in the fight.

I see you've spent your life unable to think outside the box, and thus are unable to consider the possibility that resolving this issue in a version of the current QL build that has Q3-style rockets doesn't even have to involve altering any of the weapons.

For instance, this game could really use slower strafe acceleration, a la CPMA VQ3, and that change would actually make retreating against such good aimers a lot harder to do, especially now with the new shaft. And, thus, those two very simple alterations -- slower rockets and slower strafe accel -- would change the nature of the game entirely right there. You could also do this in conjunction with toning down the chain jumping acceleration as well and maybe just making it a slightly more highly accelerated version of CPM stair climbs or just identical to CPM stair climbs altogether. Oh hey, look, I just came up with two solid ideas for this scenario in less than five minutes, I didn't even change up how any of the weapons work, and I hardly even play QL to begin with!

===================================================

Seriously, guys, if you want real feedback on Quake, talk to chance. Considering how long he's played, gellehsak is fucking retarded when it comes to speaking on this subject.

HOLY FUCKING MOTHER OF GOD

And the point of you posting this was...?

nobody reads your shit anymore

It also looks like nobody can tell a good dueler (chance) from a bad dueler (gellehsak) anymore either

truth....

I miss vq3 vs cpm flame wars :(

Not trying to instigate a fight between the modes here as I currently enjoy both modes for their own reasons, but simply put, some elements CPM introduces does provoke a more aggressive style of play.

It is doubtful though that the changes are attempted in a focus update, and even more doubtful that they are even accepted as it doesn't "fit" with the core Q3 style of game play.

i hate to say this 'cos i love vq3 :p but the only way to truly change something about this situation is to give players atleast one ability to attack a +back'ing player. that's either a change in movement like in cpm or a stronger lg, cpma vq3 style.

that's called crouch sliding and it does the job as long as you lock the vq3tards out.

i much prefer air control over crouch sliding.

can't see air control working with slow ass wep switch, while crouch sliding does

why should one work and not the other? besides, q2 had some aircontrol and slow weap switch.

quake 2 airwut

ignore that, it had "advanced" movement compared to vq3, not exactly aircontrol. still, if slow switch and crouch sliding works then i see no reason for aircontrol to fail.

I'm not talking about crouch sliding like in q4 1.4.2 which is beyond retarded, talking about 1.3 alike crouch sliding. Not really fast, but allowed you to ninja around without making it feel you're playing against an invisible ninja monkey who can cross the map in 3 jumps ( 1.4.2 basically )

true man. last vq3 cpma mod, have nice crouchsliding. It would make attacking in corners a lot more easer, coz you dont need to stop!

Unfortunately, no one ever plays cq3.

crouchslides in 1.3 weren't much shorter than in 1.4.2

add pretty much every env. element that can be used to gain speed/height to the equation and you might somehow understand what I meant.

no.

damn, I got vedic'ed

It is the nature of the game, deal with it.

You do know that this exact mindset, in conjunction with the poor, nonstop feedback provided by people who clearly never learned anything about game design, is what ruined the balance achieved Q4 1.3 when 1.4 came out and tweaked everything, right? It's also what's taken QL, a game that was initially "unfinished" and shitty, and made it "finished" yet even shittier.

Stop telling people to deal with this shit. Your reputation exceeds you, and you're a fucking idiot for putting that sort of apathetic thought in other people's heads and thus contributing to making the game worse and worse when it's so easy to improve the game by providing good, solid ideas.

Fatty.

Baddy.

Oh hey, look, I rhymed. Why don't you go knock up another bitch who's permanently on the rag while you're at it, you fucking moron? :)

Too much effort.

Also, still fat. :)

Yeah, you did put too much EFFORT into her, you know what I mean?

Also, umad.

decrease rocket launcher splash damage radius.

this

Just set rockets to vq3 speed.

Put the prediction skill back into the RL.

Just set rockets everthing to vq3 speed settings.

Put the prediction skill back into the RL quake.

nooo, dont set it back. needed 2 years to get a feeling for the new speed. if the speed changes again i will be even more confused

Set rockets to random speed. (between 750µ and 1250µ)
Bring luck to the game. At least whines will be justified.

:DD

Its fine, wee bit more air control and speed and we are there :Pp

100sg is perfect, and the 10% is fine as well

Solid update from id!

Rocket speed is perfect, slightly smaller splash is needed because it is too huge together with the bigger hitboxes.

Higher weapon damage all around = more aggressive play.

or more effective defensive play...

specialy with rockets, might need to nerf rockets now.

at least the hitboxes make QL more enjoyable to play in general for the public, no clue how its balanced now at pro level though.

quake live. lol.

increase rocket speed
decrease rocket splash
increase rail damage
change lg to 7/8/9

game 'fixed'

omg man...:P

no, that is absolute fail.

But...isn't Quake Live itself the "down"date?

And, yes, rockets should be much slower. id should have learned from Q4 that rockets that are too fast make for bad, unbalanced gameplay.

no shit, q4 was well balanced ?

Aside from the netcode, 1.3 was perfect.

the hitboxes are too big, niggas are hittin 90% lg now

http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/summary/IDHFAHOIIASDHIO

Nah, he's probably just using what this cat is:
http://www.quakelive.com/#!profile/statistics/jsdfjkafjkjqwo