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News

John Romero Doom Postmortem GDC 2011 (121 comments)

( Major News: Gaming)

Posted by Terbo @ 00:34 CDT, 28 March 2011 - iMsg

If your a fan of Doom, and the chances are good if you're reading ESR, then this video will be a nice trip down memory lane. John Romero and Tom Hall both talk about their time developing the now classic Doom. In this video you'll hear from their personal experiences and see Alpha versions of the game throughout its development.

Enjoy: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014627/Classic-Game-Postmortem

Edited by Terbo at 18:07 CDT, 28 March 2011 - 48954 Hits

7%

<< Comment #1 @ 02:26 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

ZeritoN

Didn't think I would bother watching it all the way through in one sitting but meh, I did...

<< Comment #18 @ 11:25 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

juM8o - Reply to #1

thought the same and still did the same xD

<< Comment #2 @ 03:18 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

It would be cool if id organized a Doom tournament at Quakecon. Who wouldn't like to see cooller vs z4 in an old-school round of Doom? Provided it has mouse and keyboard support, of course (yes kids, in those days, some fps's did not have mouse support).

<< Comment #3 @ 04:55 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

annihiluzz - Reply to #2

doom has mouse support

<< Comment #4 @ 06:03 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

ZeritoN - Reply to #2

Edited by ZeritoN at 06:03 CDT, 28 March 2011

<< Comment #7 @ 06:24 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

Anonymous (90.35.32.65) - Reply to #4

all about the dual SG? boring ...

<< Comment #8 @ 06:44 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

maltyplaya - Reply to #7

I played a bit of this and I didn't notice anyone using any other weapons. :(

<< Comment #5 @ 06:18 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

juno - Reply to #4

Funner to play than quake CTF imho
Is like to see some TF like mod on it

<< Comment #6 @ 06:20 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

vedic

"We have satisfied hardcore gamers for decades, now it's time for the rest of the world." - Romero 2011

How many companies has he been through now? 10? Romero only ever talks about Doom since it was the only thing he can associate with that had any success - regardless of how little his part was. I can only hope that his participation in creating Facebook games will hasten their destruction.

<< Comment #9 @ 06:48 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

maltyplaya - Reply to #6

True, but he did design some memorable levels. I especially liked Deimos Lab. Oh wait, Tom Hall designed that one. :|

<< Comment #11 @ 07:13 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

clemso - Reply to #6

He also worked on Quake 1. You should all go read Masters of Doom.

Btw. anyone remember Severity?

Edited by clemso at 13:21 CDT, 28 March 2011

<< Comment #13 @ 07:50 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

Nukm - Reply to #11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdebrRrwTHo -> [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/v/EdebrRrwTHo]

Edited by Nukm at 07:51 CDT, 28 March 2011

<< Comment #15 @ 09:26 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #11

He never references Quake, since he quit id because they wouldn't make Quake the way he wanted it to be. Daikatana was his vision of what Quake should have been, and we're damn lucky he didn't have his way.

<< Comment #27 @ 18:04 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

Terbo - Reply to #11

There have been so many disappointments for deathmatch players over the years... anyone want to start a list?

<< Comment #30 @ 20:49 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

pks - Reply to #11

Was there ever any gameplay footage or even some design drafts from Severity? Google doesn't net me any decent results but maybe some of you remember a link or two... :)

<< Comment #32 @ 23:21 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

Thorin - Reply to #30

They were locked away in a secret filing cabinet below the 50,000 seater CPL stadium.

Edited by Thorin at 23:22 CDT, 28 March 2011

<< Comment #39 @ 10:33 CDT, 29 March 2011 >>

By

wata - Reply to #30

http://www.nofrag.com/fiches/jeux/severity/

<< Comment #41 @ 15:29 CDT, 29 March 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #11

You have to admire the guy for still loving himself that much :)
I nearly choked at 0:28

<< Comment #66 @ 13:06 CDT, 5 April 2011 >>

By

mcdaddysandwich - Reply to #11

fucking amazing teeth /no-homo and /shallow

<< Comment #12 @ 07:37 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

Magician - Reply to #6

Whats also funny is that whenever Romero talks about this or that piece of work being done, 90 percent of the time he is talking about John Carmack. Like, uhh.. when we all went off on a holiday Carmack stayed behind and build the engine etc.
Does he even mention at all any work he did himself? His only contribution seems to be a ability to associated himself with having worked with such talented and dedicated people.

<< Comment #14 @ 07:52 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

EddieF4 - Reply to #12

Considering his main project ended in one of the biggest flops in gaming, he has to keep himself relevant by constantly referencing his work with ID.

I think romero leaving ID showed who really was the one who deserved credit since romero was busy working on the craptastic daikatana while ID released quake 3 arena.

<< Comment #33 @ 23:23 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

Thorin - Reply to #12

Carmack built the violins, Romero wrote the music you played on them. Never undermine the latter.

Edited by Thorin at 23:23 CDT, 28 March 2011

<< Comment #10 @ 07:01 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

fur*q

D O O M
O
O
M

<< Comment #16 @ 10:53 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

no_il

John Romero is a asshole.

<< Comment #19 @ 11:26 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

goodbye_world - Reply to #16

This comment caught me off-guard, and I laughed way too much. Sweet, sweet delirium.

<< Comment #17 @ 11:23 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

fur*q

My understanding of the situation was that Romero was a kind of "vibes man". Never under estimate the role of the vibes man!

<< Comment #20 @ 11:51 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

dlx

Romero reminds me to Jamerio!

<< Comment #21 @ 13:58 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

cyronix ' - Reply to #20

maybe they are the same? ;-)

<< Comment #24 @ 14:40 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #20

Romerio?

<< Comment #22 @ 14:29 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

wuzz

I really dont' get why people insist on focusing on Romero's failures. Without him id Software perhaps never would have seen the light of day, and hence neither would the games that came out of it. Appreciate the man for what he did right.

<< Comment #23 @ 14:33 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #22

Probably because they never did anything :)

<< Comment #26 @ 16:17 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

Weird ' - Reply to #22

I think people just want to express their gratitude towards Hall and Carmack for all their amazing work. It's just that talking down is easier so it comes out as negative comments towards Romero.

<< Comment #28 @ 19:31 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

FTY - Reply to #22

People appreciate him for what he has done, but every time he opens his mouth he's going to talk about Doom one way or another - that's what is annoying, living in the past for 18+ years.

He was pioneering new stuff, we get it, good for him, we're in 2011 however.

Edited by FTY at 19:38 CDT, 28 March 2011

<< Comment #29 @ 20:16 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

EddieF4 - Reply to #22

It's not that people want to focus on his failures but the fact is his failure wasn't just limited to a bad game that people can just forget.

Yeah, he was involved in some of the most revolutionary games but his mistakes have been so big that you can't just turn a blind eye and say JOHN ROMERO, THE GOD OF FPS when daikatana, his pet project was a massive flop.

<< Comment #25 @ 15:49 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

somebodyshootme '

DESIGN IS LAW

<< Comment #31 @ 23:06 CDT, 28 March 2011 >>

By

informative, but cringe-unfunny-awkward :\

Edited by Gillz at 23:06 CDT, 28 March 2011

<< Comment #34 @ 05:24 CDT, 29 March 2011 >>

By

esdf '

Dno, I for one would like to see romero joining carmack on a new project :)

<< Comment #35 @ 06:53 CDT, 29 March 2011 >>

By

If Romero didn't start Ion Storm, we wouldn't have Deus Ex, so fuck all y'all hating cocksuckers.

<< Comment #37 @ 07:58 CDT, 29 March 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #35

Exactly, sometimes a persons success isn't directly made by what they do, but what they provide unto others.

<< Comment #38 @ 08:54 CDT, 29 March 2011 >>

By

ShadyVoltaire - Reply to #37

Like wining BAFTAS and keeping large amounts of cash in their house for no reasonm whatsoever.

Dont hate the player's, hate the GAME :)

<< Comment #43 @ 19:26 CDT, 30 March 2011 >>

By

EddieF4 - Reply to #35

You probably would still have it. It's not like Warren specter couldn't have come up with deus ex while still at looking glass.

<< Comment #44 @ 06:14 CDT, 31 March 2011 >>

By

madbringer - Reply to #43

Yeah but he might not get to have the creative freedom to make it, if not for Romero and Ion Storm.

Then again, it was much more viable to kickstart new IPs back then, so fuck knows. History is what it is, so some credit should be given to Romero.

<< Comment #61 @ 19:34 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

kg - Reply to #44

Is it random, or did he influence the game?

<< Comment #36 @ 07:52 CDT, 29 March 2011 >>

By

Jamerio :

Funny cos if Romero had stayed at idsoftware its likely that the quake franchise would have gone onto the next level.
I reckon both id and john lost out from how it turned out.

Quake is commerically dead through a lack of innovation and it sounds like John was the guy who wanted to take it to the next level, but without Carmacks genius he kept faltering on the technologoy which is just as important.

carmack cares more about the tech, john about the game, if they both hasd the brains to put their ego aside, they would have realised that and we might have something really special now.

Or, we might have a mainstream disaster that sold well but had no interesting gameplay mechanics.

Its hard to tell.

Edited by Jamerio at 07:57 CDT, 29 March 2011

<< Comment #40 @ 11:58 CDT, 29 March 2011 >>

By

karizma - Reply to #36

imagine .. quake series like call of duty .. gives me the creeps :<

<< Comment #42 @ 00:52 CDT, 30 March 2011 >>

By

Terbo - Reply to #40

Well without Quake there wouldn't be a CoD so in a way it kind of is.

<< Comment #45 @ 06:35 CDT, 31 March 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #36

...So you never played Daikatana. Romero quit id because they didn't want to make Quake into Romero's vision of perfection. Daikatana was his answer to what he believed Quake should have been, and it was a failure of epic proportions. The man has zero creative ability.

<< Comment #46 @ 08:13 CDT, 31 March 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #45

Whichever way you look at at it you can't design a game without an engine in place first and he had major problems with his tech, which resulted in staff leaving, which results in the game going to shit.

Its his fault for sure, but my point is you can't overlook the other factors that would have had an adverse effect on the game design.

I doubt Romero sat there thinking it was the best game ever on the last night of shipping it and I doubt he thought that for considerable time.

Which is why I don't belive its a true representation of what he wanted. Had he stayed with ID, Carmack would have kept him on the rails and you might well have seen something special.

John's ego was the real problem, not his ability.

<< Comment #47 @ 12:02 CDT, 31 March 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #46

... no. Romero built Daikatana on the Quake engine, and the final product ended up being on the Quake 2 engine. The problem was never the tech - it was Romero. How can you be so wrong when the info is so easy to look up?

<< Comment #48 @ 13:04 CDT, 31 March 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #47

I don't need to look up information I already know. I know what engine the game was on, my point was, the bad planning of the project would have had a MASSIVE impact on the design, and final quality of the game. read the quotes in bold which basically highlight what I said.

YEARS of work was wasted from bad project management and engine complications, when they switched over to the quake 2 engine they had to do loads of stuff again. What I'm saying is, the project was run so badly, it would have been difficult for anyone to make a game with bad morale, technical issues.
So I don't belive Daiktana is a testament to JOhn Romero's creative ability because its clear those problems would have had an adverse impact on the design. Anyones. He got eaten up by his inability to lead a team. Doesn't mean he doesn't have skills.

TAKEN FROM WIKI... (seeing as its close to my memory of reading it I'll put some faith in these words)

Results

The game was to license the existing Quake game engine. At id Software, the content portion of Quake had taken a nine-person team only six months. Romero had eight artists, and calculated that he could finish in seven. This schedule was called "patently ludicrous" by John Carmack. Put simply, Romero did not have an established, experienced team to rely on, as Ion Storm was still forming as a company, constantly adding new employees. Many were talented amateurs, hired on the basis of level designs they had created.

Ion Storm showed Daikatana at E3 in June 1997. The engine was still running in a software mode, and looked outdated and unimpressive. At the same time, id Software was debuting their Quake II game engine, featuring hardware acceleration and innovative visuals. Romero realized that they were falling behind technologically. The Christmas 1997 deadline was quietly dropped, and the new plan was to keep creating the content for the game, and switch to the Quake II engine as soon as it was ready. The game was rescheduled for a March 1998 release.

The Daikatana team received the source to the Quake II engine in November 1997, and immediately realized that the switch would not be simple. The code was completely different from the original Quake engine, and would require throwing away eleven months of work for a complete rewrite.

Even this would not have prevented the release of Daikatana in 1998, but internal company politics began to erode morale. Ion Storm had grown extremely quickly, and was spending money freely. The Dominion project, put on a fast path by Ion Storm in a desperate attempt to generate some revenue, was resented by the Daikatana team for stealing resources from their project. In November 1998, morale got so bad that twelve members of the Daikatana team quit, leaving Romero with no team, and no way to make the Christmas 1998 deadline.

In January 1999, the switch to the Quake II engine was complete. What had been scheduled for a few weeks had taken an entire year to complete. Ion Storm proudly announced that "Come hell or high water, the game will be done on February 15, 1999." This deadline was missed, but a demo was released in March 1999. However, this demo failed to impress players as it featured no monsters and no single player game, only multiplayer deathmatch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikatana

Edited by Jamerio at 13:07 CDT, 31 March 2011

<< Comment #49 @ 14:16 CDT, 31 March 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #48

I suppose you'd have to support him, since your failures are so alike.

<< Comment #50 @ 22:03 CDT, 31 March 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #49

It was a pleasure destroying you in public and then showing how you then loop back to failed insults once you realise you were constructively dominated.

Enjoy your tantrum.

<< Comment #51 @ 04:50 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #50

No, you've only solidified what I've said, while continuing to say the same thing you already did. I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong in the same way 2 times.

<< Comment #52 @ 07:50 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #51

Not true, you wanted to attribute the failure of the game to JR lack of creative ability, when I told you that there were major dev problems on the team which would have really affected the game, you didn't like it becuase it didn't allow you to attack him at the angle you wanted.

There are many external factors that affect the output of a game, had you ever done more than work at a few lan centres and reapir computers, you might have a bit more insight.

<< Comment #53 @ 09:31 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #52

He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been. The game didn't fail because gamers cared about internal affairs - it failed because it was horribly bad in EVERY way.

<< Comment #54 @ 13:33 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #53

If you're going to attempt to quote the guy then at least come back witth a quote and a source.

Edited by Jamerio at 13:42 CDT, 1 April 2011

<< Comment #55 @ 14:34 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #54

Do your own homework.

<< Comment #56 @ 15:33 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #55

What for a non existent quote which you are claiming was made but can't even provide a source for?

You are the one claiming people said things but when asked a simple question of quoting your source, you can't even adhere to the basic laws of the world.

I don't need to do your homework, you've just folded.

Edited by Jamerio at 16:03 CDT, 1 April 2011

<< Comment #57 @ 17:23 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #56

This isn't a debate. You obviously don't know anything about Romero, or Daikatana. Had you been anyone else, I probably would have done your google work for you - or not, if they were asserting lies as if they were fact like you did.

<< Comment #59 @ 17:51 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

skint - Reply to #57

oh come on, its plainly obvious the game went to shit because of these dev problems and was never able to become exactly how he envisioned his game.

but hey its jamerio, you cant help yourself!

<< Comment #62 @ 20:01 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #57

You accuse me lying about serious dev problems inside ion storm when they are common knowledge. Here straight from JR's mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=6m15s

So.

Would over healf your development team leaving affect a game project?

YES.

Would redoing 11 months of work when porting over to the Quake 2 engine affect the game?

YES

And that's before we talk about hiring a bunch of people who never made a game before and expecting them to churn it out like they were veternas. Even carmack said the schedul was "patently ludicrous" and that's a quote BTW.

Face it, Ion Storm was a shit storm, yet for whatever reason you have a beef with Romero and you somehow want to imply that the game was his ultimate dream and he has no creative talent when all I was saying (and quite righly) that NO ONE could have made the game they wanted with those politics and on goings.

Secondly, just to rub extra salt into your already deluded ego, I'm going to quote you...

"Daikatana was his answer to what he believed Quake should have been"

And now listen to what Romero ACTUALLY said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s

"BUT NOT DO THE CRAZY REVOLUTIONARY IDEA THAT QUAKE WOULD HAVE BEEN" (He used that to describe Daiktana, which you claimed was his ideal. What Quake would have been, but one again, you make a fool of yourself.

No wonder you didn't want to provide that quote. Gee, what a surprise. You're an inaccurate liar. you really had me fooled. Honest.

Are you having fun yet?
Is reality starting to conflict with your personality disorder?
Is the penny dropping?
is there anybody there????

Carry on if you want, I'm keen to see how far your delusions go and how deep you can dig and you know I'm more than happy to keep handing you those spades.

Break a leg, or a neck :).

Edited by Jamerio at 20:28 CDT, 1 April 2011

<< Comment #63 @ 06:30 CDT, 2 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #62

Still not reading the interviews, or playing Daikatana, I see. When you do, you'll find that Ion Storm had issues only because of Romero. His staff quit (almost all of them) because he didn't know what the hell he was doing, but the game didn't leave with the employees.

If you actually knew the history of Quake, you'd know that it started out as a totally different game (fantasy/medieval/RPG) and simply moved back to the model of Doom. Romero nerdraged because it stopped being about his D&D faggotry, and started being a game that people could enjoy. Ergo, Daikatana.

"I've gone on record to say that I'm proud of the PC version of Daikatana and I stand behind that." -John Romero

Just go play the game (if you can even find it, as I'm sure nobody wants to host a torrent of it) - once you play it, you'll never support Romero again.

<< Comment #64 @ 06:49 CDT, 2 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #63

Saying he is proud of something is TOTALLY DIFFERENT to you saying he said. I know a friend who is proud based on the potency of his farts.

"Daikatana was his answer to what he believed Quake should have been"

Secondly, I already said in my initial posts...

"Its his fault for sure, but my point is you can't overlook the other factors that would have had an adverse effect on the game design."

So yes Romero was responsoile for the failture of the game as he was the boss, at the same time, a balanced person would recognise that due to him taking on such a big role its clear that those factors would have affected the game design in a negative way.

Project management is TOTALLY DIFFERENT to game design.

Its pretty easy to play it safe and do tiny little bits on a team, I respect the guy for having the balls to do what he did, things don't always work out, but saying someone like that has ZERO CREATIVE TALENT because he took a chance and misquoting him is just wrong.

"This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out."

Edited by Jamerio at 06:51 CDT, 2 April 2011

<< Comment #65 @ 07:01 CDT, 2 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #64

He failed at both project management, AND game design. I never quoted him, as it's not a single quote - you have to read ALL the background story. Even if I had spent the time linking you to each and every interview, you'll continue believing what you want to believe, because you associate with Romero's failure.

The only talent that Romero has is in industrial sabotage.

<< Comment #67 @ 15:08 CDT, 5 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #65

I don't assocaite with Romero's failure. That's just another one of you ENDLESS lies designed to you get yourself out of talking shit by trying to flip the discussion around and imply there is another motive becaue you're not gonna dig your way out of it and take it off course. Nice try, but I'm too smart for that and you.

you have a bullshit answer for everything and the only person you ever manage to convince is yourself.

You specifically said that ROMERO said that Daikatana was his dream of what quake would have been when I linked you to saying that it was not.

You then came back with a quote of somekind becuase you ended up looking the cunt, which was NOTHING like you said.

This is what you said...

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

What John really said...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s
(BUT NOT DO THE CRAZY REVOLUTIONARY IDEA THAT QUAKE WOULD HAVE BEEN )

So if someone SPECIFICALLY said that what you said then why are you lying and failing to come back with it, and why have I come up with a video from john saying the complete opposite to you when you can't even come up with what you said he said?

I do believe he said that in your head, but the simple fact is you can't even back up what you say, instead trying to put up more smoke and mirrors to protect your deluded ego.

Even when it comes from JOhn Romero himself your deluded little mind still sits here trying to convince the world he said what he said and watching you make excuses after excuse for failing to provide a quote, after you said he "SPECIFICALLY" said something.

Edited by Jamerio at 15:29 CDT, 5 April 2011

<< Comment #68 @ 17:13 CDT, 5 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #67

I don't assocaite with Romero's failure.

You do. You both need to lie about reality in order to hold up your delusions. You're both talentless hacks that get targeted by anyone with a little common sense.

You've said the same thing about 5 times now, but managed to make it longer, and even less on topic.

<< Comment #69 @ 19:03 CDT, 5 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #68

if you answered the perfectly reasonable and non intrusive question I would not even be here. So I'll keep it simple.

You can't even provide a simple quote to what you're claiming someone specifically said, I'm afraid I can't entertain anything more serious from you and I doubt anyone else can.
We'll put you on a plan ok, do this and we'll let you talk about more complex things in life? Fair?

This is what you said...

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s

Where did Romero specifically say this and what is your source?

Edited by Jamerio at 19:22 CDT, 5 April 2011

<< Comment #70 @ 20:45 CDT, 5 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #69

Why would I answer in a reasonable fashion to someone who is unreasonable in every way? You don't accept proof as proof in any discussion, so this was never a debate - merely a shutdown of your misinformation.

<< Comment #71 @ 21:14 CDT, 5 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #70

You're trying to turn a very simple thing into smoke and mirrors.
there is no misinformation from me as I am simply asking you to clarify what you said in terms of a quote.

I came up with a quote that directly conflicted what you said, you've not come up with a quote to something which you said someone was very specific about.

This is what you said...

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s

Where did Romero specifically say this and what is your source?

<< Comment #72 @ 22:38 CDT, 5 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #71

You're making claims for something that you obviously know NOTHING about - even when the information is so easily available to you. That's all you ever do, regardless of the subject. You seem to have this need to chime in on every subject, but you continually forget that there are people who come across your information who will actually know about the subject, and recognize your claims as fantasy.

You should have understood what I had said by this post, but since you obviously couldn't read about Romero, it's no surprise that you couldn't read my post. Have you not noticed that nobody will actually discuss anything with you for the past 2 years? No matter what the content of the replies, you are unable to actually comprehend anything outside of your fantasy world.

<< Comment #73 @ 06:56 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #72

I'm probably the most replied to person on this entire site.
There is your 1st delusion.

Secondly, you've spent 1000's of words replying to me in this very thread and much more in other threads so its pointless trying to scratch and bite and take the topic off course.

Thirdly I was at E3 when Romero was there in 2000 or 2001 and follwed his progress closely because it was considered a rival.
And you're trying to tell me that someone like you who was buying sweets on his way to school knows more about the topic than me?

If that is the case, why can;t you provide a quote to something you say?

If that is the case, why have I provided a quote in vide form from Romero saying the opposite of what you said.

Do you know more than John Romero too?
Are you that deluded?

Edited by Jamerio at 07:25 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #75 @ 09:51 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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vedic - Reply to #73

Yes, I reply to you to shut you down. I usually just act as a counter-troll, but keeping your idiocy occupied is equally worthwhile. At this point, I'm really the only one who replies to you, and who you reply to. I'd say mission accomplished. You get nothing done, you get shot down, and you get mad.

I like how you say that you were following Romero a whole 4 years before you even owned a computer, and speak as if seeing him at E3 once gives you any kind of knowledge on what actually happened. Meanwhile, I actually owned my own computer, used the actual early internet, and followed the actual situation. The fantasy party never ends, it seems.

<< Comment #77 @ 09:56 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #75

Still no answer, and the reason I didn't own a pc is becaue I had one at work and had no need to.

I still had the internet and a Silicon graphics terminal.

So still no quote from you then, just more attempts to take the tpoic off course.

<< Comment #80 @ 10:02 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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vedic - Reply to #77

I'm sorry, but a cash register does not count.

<< Comment #82 @ 10:11 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #80

Why can't you just provide the quote to something you said someone specifically said instead of trying to take the thread elsehwere?

<< Comment #84 @ 10:14 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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vedic - Reply to #82

The thread was fine until you had to make shit up.

<< Comment #86 @ 10:24 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #84

What did I make up?

All I did was ask you for a quote in relation to you saying Romero said...

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

What John really said...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s
(BUT NOT DO THE CRAZY REVOLUTIONARY IDEA THAT QUAKE WOULD HAVE BEEN )

Why are you now trying to say I am lying when I am simply quoting you with John Romero.

Do you think readers belive you when.

A) I provided the opposite of what you said from Romero.

B) You seemed to have regressed to this 14 yr old child who is biting and scratching and trying to flip things around.

Edited by Jamerio at 10:26 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #87 @ 10:25 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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vedic - Reply to #86

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2058250#pid2058250

<< Comment #88 @ 10:27 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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Jamerio : - Reply to #87

I see you didn't answer when I asked waht did I make up?
That's good, at least you're learning.

vedic why is this still an issue. Its really simple...

This is what you said...

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s

Where did Romero specifically say this and what is your source becaue it seems like he said the opposte and your behaviour seems very odd and child like.

All I wanted was a simply answer to what you claimed Romero said.

Edited by Jamerio at 10:31 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #90 @ 10:31 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #88

Your question was addressed as early as this.

<< Comment #91 @ 10:33 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #90

The question is you said he said the following.

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

Jamerio Counter Claim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s

you've yet to asnwer that.

<< Comment #93 @ 10:36 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #91

I did, when I told you that this isn't a debate. The information is out there, if you ACTUALLY wanted to know. I know that you don't, and that you would dismiss any solid evidence anyway. You won't do your own homework, because you don't care. You just want to keep arguing about your delusions, so I'll happily shut them down.

<< Comment #95 @ 10:40 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #93

Now you're getting worse.

Claiming the info is out there but you don't want to provide it.
I'm not asking for your social security number or anything personal.

Claiming I would deny it if you came forward with it.

All I asked for was a quote to back up what you say, the reason I asked is because I provided a counter quote, the fact that you can't backup what you say, the fact that Romero said the opposite and the fact that you are acting like a child is not helping.

Edited by Jamerio at 10:46 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #98 @ 10:50 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

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vedic - Reply to #95

Any time you are provided with anything, you dismiss it, or twist it around your delusions. You're mad because I won't humor you. I don't get why this specific thread rages you more than normal, as we've been doing this to you for years now.

Did something happen to you? Did you lose your job at McDonald's? I mean, the rage the other day here was somewhat understandable, despite you being unable to back up your position, but threads like this don't usually rage you so hard. Are the walls coming down in your world?

<< Comment #99 @ 10:52 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #98

Again yet more attempts at personal attacks and taking the topic off course along with some deep seated projections.
Why is something so simple invoking such deep reactions from you?

This is all I am asking for clarification on. Why are you making a public spectacle of yourself?

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

Jamerio Counter Claim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s

I can alt+tab until the cows come home, you're the one on the back foot being made to look a liar. you're trying to boucne it back to me, but all I am requesting is a quote from Romero.

So it has nothing to do with me. Its between you and him, my intention is to simply highlight your problems. And you're not disappointing.

Edited by Jamerio at 10:57 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #100 @ 11:09 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #99

Keep alt+tabbing. You'll have to go back to work long before I'll stop shutting you down.

On a side note, it seems that you finally listened to me when I posted this - do you need all of your replies formatted in morse code to understand them?

Edited by vedic at 11:09 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #101 @ 13:40 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #100

You've not shut anything down.
your idea of winning a discussion is spamming and spamming and never admitting you were lying and trying to take the thread off topic.

The purpose of this thread was to show people that even on an unimportant issue, not only are you prepared to lie to get people to belive what you want, but when asked for simple clarification you'll kick scratch and bite and basically do everything (INCLUDING MORSE CODE) to just do what led you to become you.

Edited by Jamerio at 13:42 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #104 @ 15:17 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #101

You have to waste all your time replying to me, and it seems that you forgot how to alt+tab. With any rational person, a rational conversation would follow. You are not rational, and only technically qualify as a person.

<< Comment #105 @ 15:58 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #104

Sorry, you already lost.
http://www.esreality.com/files/misc/2011/8203...d-liar.swf

The discussion wasn't about me, it was about what you said Romero said.

This is bye bye. If you get lonely, play the flash file.

<< Comment #108 @ 22:18 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #105

There was nothing to win, and you now give up without actually looking up the info.

<< Comment #74 @ 07:15 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #72

You're making claims for something that you obviously know NOTHING about

Vedic Claim

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

Jamerio Counter Claim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s

you're the one that needs to justify his claims not me, problem you have is that you lie about things in order to get people to believe what you read, and when asked for a quote for non existent information, you beging this laughable psychology attempt at telling people the other person is clueless.

Where did Romero specifically say that?

Edited by Jamerio at 07:20 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #76 @ 09:54 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #74

Please contain your rage to a single reply.

<< Comment #78 @ 09:56 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #76

Still no quote from you then?
Just blind denial and false elevation of someones emotional state to give you something to talk about instead of the topic in hand.

Edited by Jamerio at 09:56 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #79 @ 09:59 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #78

One reply. Keep your rage to one reply.

<< Comment #81 @ 10:06 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #79

You've not replied, the only thing you've done is tried flipping the thread about and are now flat out refusing to even entertain the topic, let alone the quote.

Vedic why are you unable to provide a simple quote to something you said someone specifically said?

<< Comment #83 @ 10:13 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #81

One. Une. Uno. 1.

<< Comment #85 @ 10:21 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #83

You've not provided an answer in this thread either.
All you've done is regress to this chilish "rage" thing taken straight from Zeriton.

All I'm asking is for you to provide a quote for something you say.
I provided on showing the direct opposite.

<< Comment #89 @ 10:27 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #85

Ein. Ett. Un. 00000001.

<< Comment #92 @ 10:35 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #89

"He specifically said that Daikatana was his dream of what Quake should have been."

Jamerio Counter Claim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQMtVbz_JuE&t=3m37s

This is not one of those things that will be won or lost on something giving up your little game. Pretty soon I'm going to stop becuase the amount of denial and throw off tactics you are trying will have made the point for me.

I'm simply giving you the opportnutiy to clarify what you said Romero said in terms of a quote like I did.

Edited by Jamerio at 10:38 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #94 @ 10:40 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #92

1/100. |1|. e^i*pi + 2.

<< Comment #96 @ 10:41 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #94

Still no quote.

<< Comment #97 @ 10:46 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #96

--- -. .

<< Comment #102 @ 13:41 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #97

You can put it in klingon if you want. It makes no difference because the intention was to show how you behave once you're cornered, not to admit you were wrong and lying. That is already apparent and does not need clarfication, but I made a wee flash file for future reference.

Enjoy googling new ways to say one. At least you're learning something.

Also pasted thread in a hide tag, as I know you love to go over your posts in the future and edit them out.

Results

Attached Misc File: 82034-vedic-is-a-deluded-liar.swf (835KB)

Edited by Jamerio at 14:24 CDT, 6 April 2011

<< Comment #103 @ 15:16 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #102

So much for morse code - it almost seemed like you could understand. Please point to a post that I have edited out.

<< Comment #106 @ 16:00 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #103

http://www.esreality.com/files/misc/2011/8203...d-liar.swf

BYE BYE :)

<< Comment #107 @ 22:17 CDT, 6 April 2011 >>

By

vedic - Reply to #106

Finally going to keep it to one reply?

<< Comment #111 @ 17:46 CDT, 21 April 2013 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #107

No.

Can i have the quote you said exists now please, cos John Romero said the opposite of what you said..

Vedic come back, nobody cares if your wife works at Walmart, they have some great sutff.

<< Comment #58 @ 17:48 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

skint - Reply to #48

just read 'masters of doom'

<< Comment #60 @ 19:27 CDT, 1 April 2011 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #58

I did. About 5 years ago.

<< Comment #109 @ 03:08 CDT, 7 April 2011 >>

By

Raist

this thread is now about the jamerio thing and vedic.

oh wait I am too late.

<< Comment #110 @ 09:54 CDT, 7 April 2011 >>

By

tourist - Reply to #109

have you seen jamerio's new screenshot movie? yes you read that correctly, A SCREENSHOT MOVIE.

<< Comment #112 @ 18:03 CDT, 21 April 2013 >>

By

Jamerio : - Reply to #109

http://www.esreality.com/files/misc/2011/8203...d-liar.swf

I got him good.

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