The DKT mouse is in the works.

I'm planning on getting Raptor-Gaming heavily involved in the pro gaming scene. Help us get there and reap the rewards as gamers :)

Something tells me the only reaping will be done by you.

shame on me for persuing a potential career path in gaming!

Depends on what "co-developing" actually means.

It means they sent me a sample. I tested it and provided my input and requested changes. They acknowledged this advice and acted on it. :)

Why didn't you request a bigger mousepad then, or one with a standard shape?

The mouse pad is fairly large to be honest

it looks fucking small tbh.

i'll take a pic of it vs another pad tonight and post the link

or maybe a pic with a less massive mouse but I doubt a 3.0 would look any smaller.
30cm*30cm at best.

I hope it's some simply small, light mouse with amazing shape good sensor, 500hz and working just fine without any drivers

It's that too much ;<?

that is the plan - not necessarily "small" but it'll be average size. It is basically a super improved version of the LM3. I told them everything I would change to make it better and they are doing that.

get it right for once and it'll be a gold mine ;) doesn't seem to be as easy as one might think though

Do you palm or claw your mouse?
What mouse do you use atm?

Just want to know what I can potentially expect from a DKT mouse.

Thanks.

I currently use the MS 3.0, and I guess I am more palm then claw. However in the past, I would "claw" smaller mice.

I'd welcome a palm mouse, for sure.

Just stick that sensor from the new CM Storm Spawn mouse in it, and we're good to go.

Winning!

get the Puretrak Valor

Is it out yet? :)

Can't find it anywhere.

1st week of April according to Puretrak.

FYI - DKT mouse is looking at using the following optical:

AVAGO ADNS-5050
You can view the data sheet:
http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-1045EN

Vendor website:
http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/navigation_...adns-5050/

Anyone have opinions on this ?

Only that 30 IPS seems rather weak. Ofc, if Avago says 30 IPS it should track well at much higer speeds, they are playing it safe.

What about angle snapping on this one?

Good question, I'll try to get an answer

High speed motion detection at 30ips and up to 8g

So 0,76 m/s are now highspeed?

I wouldnt sell my Name for that piece of shit.

How does this compare to the intelli eye technology?

that's basically half the speed at which a 3.0/wmo/imo starts to get neg accel once it's overclocked at 250hz.

Don't think it's really reliable but the usual sens at which people start to complain about neg accel is around 30cm/360...So I guess the mouse you're advertising will purely crap out on large flicks for people using more than 20cm/360.

I'm going to look into this, thanks for the input

Can you throw some numbers at me that I should be looking at? Is there a specific optical sensor that stands out?

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679
check this, it's pretty old, some of the info isn't accurate ( the fov/sens/res stuff ) but the data collected by Sujoy back then is still relevant, hasn't been proved wrong and is still the reference ( despite being collected with a single mousepad, namely an old qck which iirc wasn't really friendly with laser sensors )

I'll let more tech savy people post stuff about particular sensors, but if I had to name a few mice with good sensors I'd say the 3.0/wmo/imo one is still really good, even though kinda hard to market with today's bullshit about dpi stuck inside the customer's brain, then I'd say the mx518 despite it's heavy prediction, then the sensor used by razer for their old 3g mice ( deathadder 1800dpi ) which is iirc based on an avago sensor.

Another thing you REALLY have to investigate would be the presence of accel IN the sensor, whatever the reason might be. Allegedly a chosen behaviour you're supposed to tweak ( like in some steelseries mice ) or just the sensor acting like he drank too much ( the same steelseries mice when the " built-in software accel " is turned off ). Neg accel kicking in at low sens on a rather old mouse ( 3.0/wmo ) is something most people in this community can deal with ( guess most of us would already have used ingame accel ) but with the current trend in the slower paced shooters of using über-low sensitivities people don't even wanna touch these models.

actually I am looking options...

http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/navigation_...adns-3060/

ADNS 3060, thoughts?

same sensor than in the recent zowie mice I think, you should check the threads about them.

using an EC2 for my work computer as we speak and i used it before IEM, i love the mouse

I think most people here went back to their 3.0/wmo because of heavy prediction and jittering :D
While prediction is overrated, jittering isn't.

Really? Heard a lot of good things about the EC2 sensor. Didn't see a large amount of complaints.

Pretty sure about the prediction, not that much about the jittering.

i used the mouse for 3 months+ and still use it for work, it has never jittered on me once

pretty much always mousepad related, check the razer mice that jitter on everything but ONE razer mousepad.

The 3060 is fine. But comes with angle snapping you cannot turn off. While that might not annoy you (or me, I used it for months too), it might piss off alot of the ESR folks at least.

The only optical sensor from Avago that enables you to turn prediction aka angle snapping of is the latest model the 3090. It's been used in the CM Spawn (I use that one atm) and will be in the upcoming mouse from Purtrak called Valor.

The 3090 has one problem though:

1) native resolution of 1800 / 3500 only according to the tech sheet so you will want to get something lower in there via interpolation (the Spawn offers 800 DPI, the Valor will feature 500/1000/2000/3500).

2) the LOD is pretty high - the Spawn has a LOD of ~5mm (CM said they are working on a firmware update to fix this, but who knows if they succed?), comments from Puretrak indicate that this is a weakness of the 3090. They are using a customized lense to reduce the LOD (Zowie did the same for the old 3060 by the way), which is also the reason the Valor ends up with these different DPI numbers

"LOD is high"

Couldn't they position the sensor in the mouse a bit higher to fix that issue?

Other than the LOD, that sensor sounds nice.

not without affecting the performance (the affect on the CPI shouldn't be a problem)

Other than that - it is nice. I have my doubts how they are going to fix the LOD via a firmware update. Sounds more like a problem on the hardware level, which is why Puretrak is using a different lense. Different CPI levels aren't a problem ofc, as long as they don't end up too high and become useless (3500 is useless to me already).

However, there are some users of the CM Spawn who report an extremely LOD on pads like the Steelseries 4HD or 9HD. I might get a red Artisan pad once for testing - maybe the LOD gets lower with a brighter colored pad. Idk. Anyone know a white cloth pad I could get for testing :)?

megasoma although it's shit

not cloth, thank you for reading :P

huh I thought megasoma was cloth oO well my fault, sorry than

I went back to my 3.0 from EC2.

The one from the MX500 would be great, but i dont the name of the sensor :/

Avago ADNS-A2020 (same as in the MX300)

DKT have you told Raptor already about the Sensors? What did they say?

btw. How about a DKT Keyboard ^^ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m2A0ArlLDQ&feature=fvst)

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&...pid2029179

I don't see any reason to use this mainstream sensor instead of the A3090 for example besides it's cheaper.

The only thing on the plus side is the CPI settings.

The real world performance is hard to judge but it will be outperformed by mice like DA, MX518 or Zowie EC.

I would guess it has angle snapping.


Only mouse I know that also uses the A5050 ist the Hades Gaming Cratos H4 but I have no clue how it performs.

The Avago 5050 is also in the cheap to get E-Blue Cobra and Trust GXT14(s). I own the later one and I must say at pretty much no prediction it is fairly decent if you can life with 1.0m/s

Dunno about the avago 5050, but try to get them to make a non-accel non prediction mouse. ie wmo, imo, abyssus. It baffles me that "gaming companies" are constantly making crap mice that have glaring imperfections. "But it has 5 gazillion dpi!!" :D

I like that they are actually working together with gamers to make a better product. Hope that more companies see the importance of this. On the other hand I have my doubts with the technical specs of htis product and the presentation could've been a lot better, a native English speaker would make it a lot nicer to listen to in the first place.

I understand your concern and believe me I have voiced this from day 1. Companies can't just flat out stop everything they are doing and start doing something else, obviously you probably already understand that, but what we are trying to do is work together from this point forward so we can tackle issues like you bring up.

Good to hear. I hope to see good things in the future then, good luck. (maybe throw some free products to random ESR users for some reviews ;))

who is that German reading off a transcript? :D Other than that neat keyboard, I guess.

when is the one with a potato head coming out?

With detachable buttons etc? :p

Nice that you're releasing products with raptor (and nice that they are involved with gamers), but bad that it's not just a fucking rectangle. Take a look at Razer/Steelseries and see if they have ridiculously shaped products, they don't.

I can see your point and I even brought that up myself. Honestly, it isn't as noticeable as you'd think. You make a good point though

i've been playing with an old rectangular funcpad for probably 8+ years waiting on another good hard mousepad to come out, i think ill give this a try :)

fUnc pad + fUnc liquid was da shit! :)

Your pad still working after all these years btw?

The fUnc pads I had quickly wore down. :/

yeah its still very smooth for me, maybe im just used to how worn down it is lol...I've tried plenty of other pads over the years, yet this one seems to always find its way back to my desk

Yea, plus the more i look at it the more attractive it becomes, strange how that happens.

Looking forward to the mouse details.

Rerelease the DKT pad!

If I knew whatever happened to mine I'd use that thing over my Goliathus any day.

Working on something ;) cloth mouse pad market is so saturated... hard to distinguish what separates one from the other, and then you get some gimmicks along with it

The only thing I can think of is how much it gets worn down after time. I find qck's wear down pretty quick, yet the puretrak talent doesn't, even after months and months.

Maybe that could be something you could use to market.

the more durable cloth you get, the more "sand piper like" it becomes. however i have a type of surface in mind and i will be experimenting with it.

perhaps you can help me test in the future....

Sure. Durability isn't an issue really, unless you're still talking about it wearing down over time.

I don't know what Puretrak did to make it feel like it never wears down, but they did a good job. Other pads are noticeable after like three months.

Those Artisan pads never really got worn down either, but like you said, they're kind of rough on the skin, but smooth on the mouse.

What about price? Most people are paying likr $30-$50 shipped for a pad. Think QCK's are $14.99, but I'm sure an advantage over them would be a much cheaper pad. Depends on what you can undercut though.

Man, sounds like a fun part time thing to do, heh :D

I still have the everglide DKT cloth mat, and its still great after all these years of usage. (5+) And mine has taken a lot of beating :>.
The mat itself is looking worn and discoloured, but the surface is still smooth and my mouse never skips a beat on it. Re-release it so I can buy a new one thats not so ugly as the one I have :>

same :)

may i know what are the sensors used in raptor-gaming mice?

While we're on the topic, can someone recommend me a good pad? Now I use a qck+, which after a few years seems to be little better than playing straight on the table. ~20cm/360, new mx518, not too pricey

puretrack talent/new qck/icemat

i guess only qck fits under "not too pricey"

Puretrak Talent does not cost that much more than a Qck Heavy. You cannot compare it to the Qck as they are not the same thickness.

still, spending almost as much on a mousepad as on a mouse is a bit meh

uh that guy talking about the pad makes me fall asleep, needs more action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tRHByTtvsQ

??

well, i'd say this is a bit too much :D

Omg, my browser was half-crashing when I played that vid; made the guy speakiing in it sound like "this is Sparta!".

Sounded awesome :)

They also make mice that come with a software that gives you audio feedback when you switch your DPI.

"ONE THOUSAND DPI!"

"TWO THOUSAND DPI!"

They're that cool.

Yeah, there are only two audio messages on the Chuck Norris mouse:

"OVER NINE THOUSAND DPI!"

"BELOW NINE THOUSAND DPI!"

Chuck Norris does not need a mouse to dish out round-house head-shots!

This is fucking awesome.
if I were a casual and had no clue I would definitely buy that shit :D.

This sounds like an angry midget who will come at night and rape you in your sleep while laughing manically

DKT has bills to pay.

Get on this fuckin mousepad people!

i got a kid due on May 3rd!!!!!

Feed my babeh :P

Sorry to hear that.

congrats! :)

My 6yo likes CPM and Warsow.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2059532#pid2059532

Cute.. another flanders I can beat up on in quake.. Nah jokes aside, Gratz!!!

congrats for having another pad with your official signature :)
ill stick to goliathus speed tho, unless this pad is even faster and works well with my failyssus :D

well, i had an old abyssus which broke 3 days ago, o bought the new abyssus League of Legends edition,and it doesnt jitter, like the previous one!

tbh it was just a joke, dont have any problems with my setup, propably im a bit lucky ;)
got goliathus alpha, mouse settings are : sensitivity 1.3 ; in_mouse 2, 3k dpi / 1khz , 7/10 sens in razer utility (dunno if it affects sensitivity in ql on in_mouse 2 but it feels comfortable for me on windows, just saying ;) )
slightly increased vertical sensitivity, dont remember exact numbers, anyway works for me pretty flawless, i suck on ql tho :D

but it is a true fact that the older abyssus had jitter issues, at least the on the older revisions.

yeah, im lucky boy ;)

does affect ql sens with in_mouse 2, would be nearly the same to use 10 in the drivers and 5/11 in win.

how in_mouse 2 is raw input

oh than raw inputs also bypasses the windows sensitivity and the razer drivers settings?

for win yes. since i use 500 dpi in QL i set win to 8/11. doesn't affect QL on raw input at all. comfort ftw.

bypasses win, supposed to bypass most drivers but the way logitech and razer drivers are coded put them a layer closer to ql than they should be basically.

That's why Killsen keeps fucking with my mind, even though he measured his sens to help us figure out wtf was processed by his g9x driver I don't believe the accel is as low as it would then be given how little he seems to move the mouse.

wtf is the point of coloured keys? Its not like you actually look at them whilst using a keyboard. I had music on viewing the video so if there was some explanation I missed it.

I really dont care about the color... If they gave you like, 4 BLANK keys that had a different texture than the rest (but didn't feel like utter shit), that would be l33t.

2 small

I've used the goliathus control for a long while now. seems to never wear out, it's big, awesome tracking and good friction. da da da daa daaaa im lovin it

As for the mouse sensor:

Should be optical. Opticals are less touchy about the surface they use, and their aperture is larger and much more resistant to dust, debris, or fibers that would like to get into them.

Should not have prediction (angle-snapping, drift control).

Should not have any acceleration, be it positive or negative.

Should have very low lift off distance.

Should support as low as 450 cpi, if not 400.

As for the mouse design:

Should be as **lightweight** as technically possible. The lighter the better. The Abyssus and the wmo are just about the lightest on the entire spectrum of mice and are also the highest regarded. This is the new trend. A new mouse that wants to be competitive must consider this. Also, weight adds to the friction. NO VARIABLE WEIGHTS, THAT IS 100 % LAME.

Teflon feet are a plus.

The wmo and IE 3.0 shapes should be STRONGLY be considered for reference .

Braided cord is a plus.

Must be very durable. People rage and they slam their mouse down. They can get dropped at lans, or just general monkey business. When a person's mouse breaks they get pissed and blame the manufacturer and run the mouse down, even if unjustified. The wmo is in my opinion, very durable.

Sensor should be directly under the palm, or, if you _must_ put it somewhere else, move it upwards towards the fingers. Sensor placements at the back of the mouse are totally unacceptable.

A large number of buttons is NOT a selling point. The ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM number of buttons should be 6:

Left and right, two side buttons, one button for CPI changing, and push down scroll wheel button.

Buttons increase the weight, and unused buttons are a total waste.

If the mouse is not going to be ambidextrous, consider only left side button.

Should be driverless, or if they just can't help themselves, be VERY SPECIFIC about which setting results in 1:1 mouse input as some games still use the cursor for input (ie. quake live's in_mouse -1).

Most people if they are going to change the CPI at all, are going to switch between two values. One for their games, and one for their windows desktop. Those that use low resolutions in windows can get away with low CPI values, those that do not can find low CPI values cumbersome. So, in my opinion, there are ways around having to have the CPI button on the mouse that could be explored (hot key?).

Hm....

- braided cord adds weight so it's not a plus. also, braided cables become very stiff making them a hassle to roll up (which you'll do often when going to lan parties). good cable: zowie EC. very flexible, and reasonable lightweight. this gets even more important when building a leightweight mouse. if the mouse is lightweight you'll be able to feel a heavy cable while lifting the mouse.

- if the mouse is ambidextrous don't make side buttons. lefties will be annoyed by the left buttons, right handed people by the buttons on the right side - everyone hates that about the xai and, as you mentioned, many buttons increase the weight and unused ones are useless

- teflon feet are a must. and make sure they have round edges. many people use cloth pads and sharp edges will not glide as good (they'll wear down over time but still).

yeah well I can live with the side buttons on the DB, although I'm not using them, but i.e. in the CH they were damn annoying and Razer actually released a kit that had blank keys for that mouse lol.

This.

Still waiting for something like a more ergonomic wmo or a smaller 3.0 that isn't absolutely overpriced ( derp zowie )

Pretty much everything this dude said except I would gear the sensor placement more toward claw grippers. ie directly in the middle underneath the fingers like the abyssus. Make a better version of the abyssus and I would buy it.

you can get all this with a Kinzuadder. :)

then start mass production and get rich thunda

ok :)

mouse weight is a preference in my opinion so a middle weight could be a good Idea

To be honest I cannot imagine a mouse being too light.

after drilling holes in my mx300 i can... but yea, won't happen to mice with a half proper case :p

well when I switched to the salmosa the light weight pissed me off a bit made me wanna go make a mold of the salmosa's shell and make a steel shell , but I didn't do that so I just got used to it.

loool

Having a pro gamer help design a mouse with suggestions and input from the gaming community... sounds too good to be true. :D

"Having a potato help design a mouse with suggestions and input from the gaming community... sounds too good to be true. :D"
I agree, sounds too good to be true.

Ah, touche. ;)

flanders, you wanna make a lot of cash with a mousepad again? talk to puretrak or zowie and try and design a pad with them. no one's gonna buy this raptor pad especially after looking at their website.

either of those two companies will help you with your mouse dreams too seeing as they actually know what theyre doing. dont just pick a sensor from avago based on specs.

neway, just my .02 from a person who's watched u play in this community since the start. gl with the kid