bfg

:D

cpm style bfg

Just stop armor decay.

TDM is well balanced atm, no need for something that stupid.

Having a spawn weapon which operates consistently at any range in a normal TDM map is not a good thing, imo.

All of the other weapons have an optimal range which requires and extra element of skill to fully utilise the weapon. This is not the case with the mg, and you can't even differentiate a decent player from a good/great player when they have the mg, they all look exactly the same and nothing special rarely, if ever happens with an mg.

With a weapon that has a small operating window, it would take more skill and create more interesting plays from both the spawnee and the opponent with a weapon, one trying to optimise the effectiveness of their spawn weapon, the other trying to negate it. The only option to negate an mg'er atm is to hide behind something, or leave the room. You can't say that about the rl, lg or rg can you?

Each of those weapons has a optimal range which can be negated by a good player, it should be the same for the spawn weapon, rather than having the most versatile weapon range-wise from the very get-go, which is ludicrous when you think about it.

You still need to have good hitscan aim for mg, and dodging comes to first place so you can use pummel to finish or make additional damage, or just take enemy attention so you can steal some item or you mates will come to help. It's still very easy to say who's good or not even if he has only mg.

MG sess a problem? The fuck? I haven't played TDM in a bit but last time I did MG does like no damage at all armor or no armor unless you hit like 50%... Which is easily possible, but you're still not going to get the kill unless the other guy is low as hell.

Are you thinking of the Painkiller start weapon with that projectile based weapon?

Do you not think it would improve TDM to have the start weapon with an optimal range which would allow the spawnee to defend himself, and hinder attacking?

want old mg back. more +forward

this

I think it's kind of lame that weak players can even compete with strong players. The whole point of TDM is not to have team FFA but a game where strategy (getting items) is how you win.

If armors and mega become worthless then it's just organized FFA.

maybe thats what he wants? i hope tdm will not go that way but i can understand that some people prefer a game where you constantly attack/fight
anyway saying that "strategy = items" is really narrow minded cause positional play in fights and working together as a team also requires strategy and is no easily mastered

thank you

noctis needs to approof first

needs flash grenades

a feather

its fine now

Stake gun.

a sword would be lovely

get a [+] for making me laugh this early in the morning

i dont think that cess is much of a problem atm but i dont really like how it was achieved

the starting weapon really doesnt need to be any stronger or completely useless, but i would like to be able to use the weapon for more than 3s before its empty and i would like if it required more skill to use it efficiently. decent players using mg always look the same and people will only slightly deviate in the damage hey are able to deal with it.

that being said i have no idea how the weapon should like like to achieve that ;)

the weak "lg" from warsow maybe

well if i want a waggly yellow stream i usually just pee standing up

but okay, it would at least put more emphasis on prediction, sill i dont really like that weapon

Lol :D I agree, I dont like that weapon either, but your metaphor... wow. :D

nunchaku

A giant dildo.

handgrenades like in q2

i would start playing tdm :)

i would stop

best weap ever

Fuck no! :)

Those things just kill u..

l4d2 chainsaw! (instagib-ish)

QW-esque shotgun

Stop begging for something that you will get sorry for 2 days later guys.

gimme 100 mg bullets at spawn and I'll be happy as a clam.

quad damage but no weapon at start

u petter pick something up fast / have mates sharing :P

I'm disappointed no one said a thing about lowering weapon respawns. Maybe that's because it's "pro" to play that MG cess. For 2v2 the current resptimes are fine imo but more players and it gets boring.

I'm disappointed no one said a thing about lowering weapon respawns. Maybe that's because it's "pro" to play that MG cess.

o0
well thats because most people dont wanna play ca, controlling resources in tdm means controlling weapons as much as controlling armors and areas. ql started with a really low weapon respawn time and it was changed because its such a big loss for tdm above public level of play

It's fine for like 2v2 but for 4v4 it's xdplz mg only.

ever heard of weapon dropping?

Ever heard of #care? Even if there is weapon dropping it doesn't make it suddenly all better. Maybe QW style backpack dropping would work in QL TDM with these weapon respawns.

boomstick ftw =)

portal gun

to frag ppl with fall damage.

strafe left and forward and press fire with gauntlet = hadouken! :)

fine as it is

seems okay as it is now with previous mg nerf, but a qw-esque shotgun would be awesome to at least try out on devpick servers

I agree, the devpick is a great idea, and I wish they would do more of them.

I would love to see the QW shotgun as the starting weapon; with say a max damage of 40, and a similar spread to the current sg.

I think it could bring much more creativity to TDM; the mg cess adds nothing, and you can't tell one top player from another when they only have an mg. You can't do anything special with it.

you can actually, it just shouldn't be a starting weapon. it is needed in ql's balance setup though, we need something to disturb long range railers, plasma is to easy to avoid at that distance.

60 or 70 Ammo for MG instead of 50 would be cool. there's no new weapon needed.

The thing which bugs me about the mg is that it takes the least skill out of all the weapons available; it works well at every range; there is no skill in working your way to the correct range to fully utilise the weapon, as every range is the ideal range.

At least with a weaker SG like weapon, you would have to use skill to ambush your opponents and make full use of your weapon. It would also give a player with a weapon a way to negate being outnumbered by one or more freshly spawned opponents, which is currently impossible to do without leaving the room.

I definitely think the machine gun is lacking in that regard; every other weapon has an optimum range, the mg really doesnt.

The optimum range for machine gun is any range where the spread doesn't effect your aim. You could load up something like DM17 to get a feel for that, over the longest ranges it isn't just an opponent dodging that will make you miss, but the actual spread of the bullets as well. There aren't many situations on the TDM maps where this comes into play though.

Now that MG is 4 damage yeah you can't differentiate much between who is good or bad with it. At 5 damage I'd rely on it for kills and actually value picking the ammo up for it, running around hitting 40-50% with it made it strong. Now you have to hit that to make it barely useful. Annoying for someone like me because I always think I can still make a kill with it even after the nerf.

It used to be that someone with abysmal LG (as an example) could be fended off by strong MG but not anymore, I can be killed by people who wouldn't know good aim even if they played for a millennium. I suppose in some ways this rewards the fact they have the item in the first place but I don't like it, having the item plus the ability to use it should be rewarded for sure, but having no clue how to wield guns properly should be punished.

Longer post than I intended but oh well.

I agree with you that ofc the mg is affected by very long ranges, and that as you said this rarely comes into play in TDM.

I agree that good aim/use of the weapon used to make a difference with the higher damage per bullet, but wouldn't you enjoy a weapon which would reward even more skillful use than just raw hitscan ability as the spawn weapon, as in its weaker than an mg outside its non optimal range, and more powerful in its (rather small ofc) operating range?

It would bring more options to a spawnee, and the team on the back foot; bring in something like I mentioned in post #41 with armor that doesn't decay, and I think that would be brilliant to try out as a dev pick, and go from there. It would allow more creative play.

What do you think?

Yeah I'd like to see some devpicks to test the sort of weapon you're talking about. I do like the idea of a weapon off spawn that is effective at short ranges, this would allow for defending against people who are attacking you but not be a suitable attacking weapon which I don't think any spawn gun should be.

rephrased "I don't think any spawn gun should be be a suitable attacking weapon."

this is so right!

there's no easier weapon than the sg, take a look at the spread on a wall and think about what you wrote :p

I find it easier to be consistent with the mg than the sg.

Also, the sg spread is not accurately depicted by the spread shown on the wall unless you enable some cvar which displays the now non-varying pattern of the sg.

A SG with low damage, quick reload and a reasonably low spread would be a lot of fun.

Plasma is pretty good at distracting long range railers too, and if I wouldnt let a mg'er or two put me off firing off a rail either.

please take a look at the spread (with truesg 1 of course, anything else wouldn't make much sense?!) and come back and tell me mg is easier to aim than sg. it's really really not the case, what you "feel" might not be necessarily right anyway.

pg is easy to avoid, at a distance i could take smoking breaks in between the plasma balls and still be able to dodge them.

this in turn makes mg the only option to annoy long range railers, the weapon being unable to kill someone is not the point, it's simply the only viable option left.

yes, a low dmg (qw-esque) sg would be a lot of fun as a starting weapon, a slightly buffed mg as a pickup would probably work out fine too.

oh and btw, regarding the 'two mg'ers don't matter' statement:

2 x 4dmg x 50ammo x 50% adds up to 200dmg. i'm pretty sure that will stop you from railing them. either you start dodging heavily/hide behind a wall or you will eventually die.

maybe you won't let that happen, but then the two mg'ers achieved what they wanted: they made you stop railing :)

hard to hit 50% mg at long rail distances :@

if he doesn't move because he doesn't care about a mg'er or two... it is possible, i've seen people like this :p

even if they only hit 25% they will do 100dmg to him, and 25% is very low, long range or not.

Yes, and the person using the rail would stand still in-between shots...

When the railer steps out, takes the time to aim, shoots and then goes back into cover; he will take a very small fraction of the damage your proposing.

And as kg said, hitting 50% accuracy with mg at long range is very difficult, which is required to make your damage output numbers even remotely possible.

And something akin to the modified CG i proposed in post #41 would help to negate long range rail dominance.

With regards to the shotgun; yes, it is easier to hit with this gun at its optimum range. It's also a weapon which you have to pickup, so it should be more powerful than the spawn weapon by its very nature, WITHIN its operating range. The mg is effective at all ranges, the sg as it stands certainly isn't. You cannot say it's easier to do more damage with the sg at long range than the mg, can you?

And no-one has said anything about a shotgun esque spawn weapon being anywhere near as powerful as the current sg. It would require good tactical use rather than raw hitscan ability, and good aim would also be rewarded.

Yes, and the person using the rail would stand still in-between shots...

When the railer steps out, takes the time to aim, shoots and then goes back into cover; he will take a very small fraction of the damage your proposing.

...and like that, already achieved everything they wanted: to distract the railer. what i wanted to proof is that mg is the only viable option to counter long range railing, thank you for agreeing with me after at first stating that you wouldn't care about a mg'er or two aiming at you while taking that railshot...

no, the question was: which weapon is the easiest to aim with, mg or sg? to what you replied: mg, which undoubtly was wrong. again, i get the feeling you're already agreeing with me :p

edit: cg wouldn't work as an anti-rail weapon because of it's spin-up time, if the railer spots you aiming at him he has enough time to hide before your bullets start flying.

You created a scenario where it was two mg'ers vs a railer, there are no other weapons used in this scenario, so why would there be another "option" or weapon used to negate the railer in this case? As I've said before, plasma is a good option for hindering a railer; it hinders his line of sight, and he has to dodge it, which will "distract" him; something you seem so obsessed about. I have not agreed with you that the mg is the only weapon which can negate/counter the rg.

And I still think its easier to aim mg than sg; it's essentially impossible to dodge good mg work, whereas with a sg its possible to dodge and avoid significant amounts of damage. All you have said to the contrary is, "your wrong". :P

no, all i'm saying is that 'you have no idea what you're talking about', but in a nice way (up until now).

there isn't much to say anymore anyway, please continue to play the way you do, i need people like you to make fun of.

plasma simply becomes less and less effective the longer the distance, up until the point where it makes more sense to use mg if you're up against a railer. why is that the case you ask?

mg is a hitscan weapon while pg shoots projectiles, that should be enough of an argument to make you understand why getting out of the way of one of the two is possible while it's an entirely different game with the other.

regarding mg/sg: you can dodge neither, they're both hitscan weapons (afaik), that's like saying you can dodge a railslug, you can't.

thing is, firing the sg just once creates these rings of instant hit pellets that will hit anything in their way. no matter if it was in your crosshair or your mind or just randomly happened to be there.
this is very different with the mg, the spread is by far not as big, which means you will hit where you aim (mostly) and will not hit where you do not aim - contrary to the sg, which in turn becomes the easiest weapon to aim with in ql thanks to this particular reason.

No need to attempt to be patronising.

Yes, when the rail itself has been fired, its impossible to dodge it; but what about making the railer aim in the spot where you were a few tenths of a second ago? Your implying that no-one has ever avoided a rail through unpredictable movement.

Good dodging makes a bigger difference when avoiding a sg than an mg. I don't see any arguments against this.

not easy to track-aim a good dodger either

but i'm patronising alltimes... :d

no arguments you say?
how about the mg needs constant tracking of the target with almost no spread meaning you have to aim to hit while the sg shoots rings of pellets that go everywhere (not only where you aimed) and do not require constant tracking; in contrast a lot of people will "wait" for the target to move inside the crosshair which requires even less aim.

re-nerf sg to 80 damage

swap weapon 2/weapon 3 values so that mg spawns on map instead of sg, and you start with sg (5 ammo)

I would love to see something like this in a dev pick :)

I think 80 dmg would be a little high imo, and it still leaves the problem of the mg working well at every range.

I think your proposal, and introducing a modified changun with a much short/no spin up time, with a lower spread and a lower DPS output would be a nice change, and gets rid of the god-awful mg too :)

I wouldn't be opposed to the modified CG at all.

80 was just a number that's been played with before, I'm sure if it was to be implemented there'd be a much more appropriate value.

i think it would be worth trying

how about this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8

i want him on my tdm team.

Oh yeah, how about one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEu9LLQpOF8

Imagine something like that with 30 or 40 belt feeds...

hello Cooller

Dont try this at home Im a professional russian

start with nades which do little damage with big knockback (so you can block off a doorway someone is chasing you through)

xdplz

vehicles

Leave Mg as it is, buff gauntlet to 100 dmg.

What about an mg with 5 damage, and a higher spread?