the only advantage to "certain" gaming keyboards are 1.) nkro or 2.) mechanical switches.

nkro is the amount of keys you can press at one time before the keyboard locks up, this is useful for obvious reasons.

mechanical keyswitches are technically " better" but if you're comfortable with rubber domes there's honestly no reason to invest that much into it.

personally I use a $10 rosewill "gaming" keyboard that has 6key nkro w/ rubber domes and it's fine for gaming. would I like a mechanical? sure, but honestly it wouldn't be _that_ big of deal.

how can i found out how much nkro a keyboard has? and what lockdown exactly means? is it when the computer starts beeping? cos i didnt heard that sound for like 5+ years and i had a series of really shit keyboards =)

so all in all unlike with mice, my gameplay wont suffer a tiny bit having these shitty ones?

thanks for helping

no, your game will suffer without nkro, it's really annoying once you notice the keys not registering. mechanical switches are a huge plus too, imo. your mileage may vary of course :p

cheapest nkro (and 6kro over usb) keyboard with mechanical switches (cherry mx black) is the steelseries 6gv2 afaik.

cherry themselves produce even cheaper ones, but they lack nkro, other keyboards that do all of the above tend to be pricey (think filco, das keyboard, etc.).

last edit: if you take a look at the galleries of recent quake events you will notice that most if not all players have either the 6gv2, a similar razer keyboard or the "enthusiast" ones, like filcos.

did i see right, that many razer sponsored players used Blackwidows on dreamhack?
Well, that one doesn't have NKRO either, and when you just play WASD you won't miss NKRO anyways if you play quake.

that depends on your binds, lots of the time you can get into trouble when having binds on most of the surrounding keys (like tab/caps/shift/ctrl/space, qwert, asdf, yxcv, 12345), especially with +zoom, +movedown and +speed thrown in the mix.

i was under the impression the razer keyboards have "anti-ghosting" on wasd though?


edit: actually, https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Rollover_%28key%29 i don't understand your post at all.

quake live is in need of more than the standard 2key rollover because we use +forward/+back in combination with +moveright/+moveleft to create a "strafing" movement.
that's already 2 keys pressed at most times, add something like +speed or +zoom which happens frequently AND then try to change weapons... you will run into lots and lots of problems.

You have 5 fingers on left hand.
...
But anyways I never noticed ghosting on G11.

You have 5 fingers on left hand.
...

true, nice one anon. with my 5 fingers on left hand i can press 5 buttons at once, can you do that too?

that 2-,6-,N-key-rollover relates to the minimum keys being registered at the same time.
Most keyboards allow enough keypresses registerd at once around WASD already, even when they jsut offer 2-key rollover.

that 2-,6-,N-key-rollover relates to the minimum keys being registered at the same time.

"minimum", is that what you meant? i'm pretty sure it's the maximum of registered keys at one time.

Most keyboards allow enough keypresses registerd at once around WASD already, even when they jsut offer 2-key rollover.

hm? if they offer 2-key rollover, how do they allow for enough keypresses registered at once?

again, example being q3/ql movement and weapon selection:
w (+forward), a (+moveleft), z (+speed) are being pressed down while you are trying to select e (weapon7), if you want to, add space (+zoom) to this too.

logically, how am i not going to run into problems, am i completely missing something here? what you are saying goes against years of experience playing quake :f

the only way this scenario is going to work out on a 2-key rollover keyboard is when every one of those keys is on a different matrix, that is very, very unlikely though.

it's the minimum, it's the worstcase that only 2 keys are registered at same time.
If it was maximum you couln't even do a single strafejump when u jump on space.
I used to play with a cherry cymotion, it has 2-kro and i used WASD, SPACE, CTRL,SHIFT and the surrounding keys, and never noticed a lock-up.

edit: maybe if i had +movedown on Z instead of CTRL, then I could got in trouble.

yes, in the worst case scenario it's the maximum number of keys being registered at one time.

you probably didn't run into problems because shift/ctrl/alt/space are modifier keys, wasd+surrounding keys are not and you are at the mercy of the keyboard layout. if you happen to hit 2+ keys on the same matrix, they won't register.

edit: ok :p in the end, we don't seem to disagree with each other.

You are very wrong

a mechanical keyboard is technically better in every way

the low actuation point, the consistency of the keypresses, the durability and the NRKO are just some of the benefits of them

Says a random Anonymous guy... BELIVE HIM HE DEFINITELY TELLS THE TRUTH!!! </irony>

The only really positive thing about mechanical keyboards is, that some of them habe 6kro or nkro (nkro is normally only possible over PS2-connectors altough if I remember correctly there is one keyboard that manages full nkro trough USB), since some keyboards tend to not register special combinations of pressed keys. This can really be annoying in Quake, but there is a series of Keyboards "developed for gaming" that feature something called "Anti Ghosting" (the term is wrong since Anti Ghosting is something different but the companies like to use it for marketing).
For example my Razer Tarantula supports Anti Ghosting for up to random 10 keys (this means I can press up to 10 completely random keys at a time and all of them will be registered, altough I never was able to test it but all combinations I use ingame work).
Most cheap Keyboards (cheap for me is <20€ and expencive starts at 80€, everything in between is a aceptable price for a keyboard imo) don't support more than 3 keys pressed at a time so you eighter had luck with all of your keyboards, or you did not notice keys not being registered.

Everything else the companies try to sell as "super sick mechanical-only features" in their mech-keyboards is only a matter of preference. Some say that rubber-based keyboards tend to get "unprecise" after some time. I have mine since 2007 and it still feels like I bought it yesterday.
Also some say that typing on a mech-keyboard is more ergonomic and gives you a better feeling while typing. Thats total bs! I can't stand the "clicky"-noise when writing on mech-keyboards (tried black, bues and even red switches) and the thing about ergonomy is more a matter of how you position your hand/arm on the desk and the keyboard than about the actual switches.

7 years ago people owned in Quake with a WMO and a random keyboard. Now everyone needs the newest mech-shit for >100€ to be good. That's total rubbish, it only matters what you like and not what is "perfect" for gaming. If you can play with a 5-10 USD or € keyboard then keep on playing with it, when you will realize that it keeps you from getting better, get yourself a "better" keyboard, it's as simple as that. Only thing that matters for Gaming/Quake is the PC and your Mouse/Headphones, perhaps your mousepad but that's also not really important.

nvm, brainlag, overlooked the quake thing in op's post :/

U mean what? I'm speaking about Quake Series not about SC cuz there I have no clue what was/is used. I think that the first guy who used a mech-keyboard and got attention trough it was a korean SCII player, but it might be normal in SCII/SCBW.

I was like "hey, this dude has a point".

















then I read anti-ghosting and Razer.

If you can play with a 5-10 USD or € keyboard then keep on playing with it, when you will realize that it keeps you from getting better, get yourself a "better" keyboard, it's as simple as that.

A little pearl of wisdom in the stuff the guy spews.

You then should read on since I myself say that most of the companies use "Anti-Ghosting" in a completely wrong way (so does or did Razer).

I don't see how me being anonymous is relevant

And then you go saying that razer tarantula is 10kro? Its no where near that as its 2KRO. What it have is a key matrix(WASD + 2keys next to it) that allow SOME combinations of keys more than the 2KRO

The price is preference and the way you argue you seem more like a guy who try to justify not having the money to buy a mechanical. I rather pay 80euro for great mechanical keyboard that will last ATLEAST 10xtimes longer than a rubber dome and that will feel exactly the same after 1keypress as it does after the 49million keypress. The low actuaction point is also a huge plus as well as being able to double tap fast with cherry mx blacks or reds.

Being from germany I seriously doubt you ever tried reds as they are not available there which. That with you sounding so ignorant about mechanical keyboards saying things like they are annoying for typing when only blues are clicky leads me to believe you lied about ever laying your hands on one.

And while full nrko might not be needed for quakelive, some of us actually like to play other games than quake sometimes

@Anonymous blah blah blah again:

1. I would easily be able to afford a Filco Ninja Majestouch-2 or Das Keyboard Model S Professional but I simply won't cuz they do not appeal to me because of the things I said above about mech-keyboards. I (if you can read you will realize that I always talk about my opinion not about general facts when it comes to comfort) don't like the feel of a mechanical-keyboard, so do several people I know. The clicky sound some of the mech-keyboards produce is also something that bothers me.

2. I only can repeat myself, I have my Razer Tarantula (when I bought it it costed exactly 100€) since early 2007 (which makes 4 years by now) and it still feels like I have bought it yesterday, keys respond fast and all keys work on it. I also seriously can't find any "normal" key-combination of atleast 5 keys that won't register on my keyboard so I assume you never used a Tarantula and are trying to justify bying a overpriced pice of hardware that will bring you minimal advantage over a good ruber-dome keyboard but will make you look so much more 1337 (atleast in your eyes). Btw. who told you that Germany has some sort of law that keeps you from buying a keyboard from another country?

you write so much bullshit, one can only hope that no one takes you seriously.

if you can read you will realize that I always talk about my opinion not about general facts when it comes to comfort

no, from the way you present "your views", that is not clear at all.

btw, your razer tarantula (with "anti-ghosting" on wasd and rubberdome) was surely more expensive than my steelseries 6gv2 (with actual nkro and mechanical switches), so who actually bought overpriced gaming hardware here?

Did I ever say that one is not alowed to by overpriced stuff if he likes it? I never said that anyone should ignore mech-keyboards because they are expencive and do not give too much advantage, everyone is free to by what he wants.
I support a great company who builds a lot of really good devices and I will continue buying Razer untill the day I don't have enough money for their stuff or I quit gaming. My Tarantula works perfect since 4 years and my DeathAdder does the same, so I see no reason to switch to any other gear atm. If my DeathAdder breaks I buy a new one (unlikely to happen), if my Tarantula breaks sometime I will buy eighter a BlackWidow or a Lycosa and so on. End of discussion.

/wall of text

yes, you paid 100€ for a plastic keyboard with a green lit snake on it, congratulations. unlike you, i don't share your enthusiasm regarding said company, i believe they are full of shit.

you spent 100euro on a cheap piece of plastic with flashy lights that cost no more than 5euro in production cost? Thats hilarious when the 6gv2 cost 67euro here

It seems like you buy gaming equipment on how many flashy lights and snake logos it have while I choose on how it will help me reach my potential

And saying you don't like mechanicals because of some of them sound is even more funny. Its like saying you dont like all cars because you dont like how some of them drive, or that you dont like food because you don't like how some of it taste.

You keep claiming you had used a mechanical with red switches just shows how much you lie. Leopold just released their FC500R with red switches 1week ago otherwise its been impossible to get your hands on on. So either you been in japan the last week or you are lying.

And why do you keep saying that NRKO is the only good feature in mechanicals? Are you honestly implying that a much lower actuation point is a great feature?

Ok let me sumarize it up: "Anonymous blah blah, random insults, blah blah, there is only one Keyboard with red switches atm, I can't read anything as soon as I see Razer in a post by someone else I need to insult him, blah blah"

1. Cherry with RED Switches can be bought from Ebay

2. You still don't get that not everybody wants to hear the click-noise all the time he types/plays and that it can be distracting to someone.

3. Actuation Point is a matter of preference. I can type quite fast with my normal ruber-dome board and in games I preffer actually putting some effort to press a key and not to randomly press everything around of the key (that's what happened when I tried mech-boards), but I agree that it could be something good for some players/users and you probably can learn typing/playing on both quite good in a matter of days.

End of discussion with you, don't even bother posting another of your "Mechanical Keyboards are so 1337, you only care about lights and snakes!!!"-posts

1) it only been out for 10days

2) You still don't get that not all mechanical switches make a click noise. Its only the mx blue that makes that noise and that makes me think that even if you did try a mechanical keyboard it must only have been a mx blue

3)No its not a preferece . Its a huge benefit that you only need to press the key down 2mm instead of 6mm to get the key o actuacte

You saying that rubber domes require more effort is also wrong. Obviously you never tried the mx blacks as you claimed

You also need to mention that domes do degrade over time, so a new keyboard will feel harsher as time goes on.

I use a mechanical keyborad atm. I like it better because of the feel it gives, but other than that I guess its just the same, advantage wise.

I should probebly mention that the Black Widdow keyboards hangs a bit once in a while. So if youre concidering to buy one, dont buy it from razer. (and yes, I've have it fully updated)

As long as your keyboard doesn’t ghost (meaning it won’t register multiple keystrokes) when using your in game binds, then you got all you need to play.

However some keyboards might offer you a better feel or have higher durance but these things won't affect your performance in game.

I myself use the mechanical Steelseries 6Gv2 because my former keyboard did ghost and I heard that keystrokes on mechanical keyboard feel very nice and that they are very durable. It was all true and I love it! But as I said, as long you are not experiencing ghosting you are all good to go and no “gaming”-keyboard will boost your performance.

steelseries 6gv2 here. i hope it lasts 10 years (for the price one might hope so :P)

It'll probably last 5-7 years. Depends how much you use it.
I'm currently using a Dell AT102 which has Complex Alps. Lovin' da noize.

My Logitech UltraX Flat is still going strong after 7 years. Some serious bang for buck I'd say.

a mechanical will last 70years then

Depends how much you use it. Like iirc cherry blacks have a life of 20 million key presses? ikr. But within at least 10 years you could use up all those key presses.

it's not like they are going to self-destruct after 20m presses...

No, they'll just stop working. What made you think that they'd explode? :o

ok, you're probably kidding but... 20 million clicks is the average lifetime not an absolute, it's a point in time at which you could start looking to replace (single) faulty switches.

That is true.

Actually its 50million not 20million

Rubber domes are 1-5million

Yeah but that's membrane?

Some kind of scissor switch I believe. Point was, people keep bringing up durability as one of the main pro's of mechanical boards. Considering the amount of abuse my Logitech has taken and still working as well as always, being a "inferior" keyboard and all, you'd think mechanical ones would last way longer than that.

i don't think they help

just find one that u feel comfortable with

is there going to be any cherry red tenkeyless keyboard coming out soon? i missed that limited edition filco on amazon.

You could get the kbc poker with cherry mx reds

where?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KBC-Poker-Mechanical-...45fb933bf6

Model M for lyfe.

Totally agree, but so not lannable!

You want to go for Black or Red cherry switches, perhaps even going for the browns but they are a little heavier if you simply want to play games with it.

www.geekhack.org is a great host of information on the topic, check out the wiki there to see differences. Personally i'd avoid any 'gaming' brands because build quality design as branding increases.

could you guys say some authentic (non-gaming) trademark? i tried to look for cherry, filco, leopold, ducky so far and nothing available in my country =/

Maybe it would help if you told us where you are from

hungary

why not buy it in some other EU country then?

keyboardco sell filco and ships to hungary
http://www.getdigital.de/products/Das_Keyboard_Model_S/lng/en

getdigital sell das keyboards and ships to hungary
http://www.getdigital.de/products/Das_Keyboard_Model_S/lng/en

Posted the same link twice :D

Heres the link to keyboardco
http://keyboardco.com/

ebay, amazon & buy from .uk/de/nl?

Access-IS
Apple
Cherry
Chicony
Costar
Deck
Dell
Ducky
Filco
Key Tronic
Leopold
Marquadt
Matias Corporation
TG3 Electronics
Topre
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Unicomp
Vortex

AND LOADS MORE!

thanks!