EDIT: Damn, I sounded a tiny bit like ray right there.

oh look its one of those threads

lack of upkeep. simply put. When bugs and general issues arose in quake live, they were ignored and lackluster infrequent updates were full of things at the bottom of the priority ladder. Instead of fixing the most pressing issues, they gave us more cvars and to this day this trend continues.

They just didn't listen to the community and basically used up bethesda's money on mapping shitty maps that noone plays because they were either too small (full of tiny corridors, restricting movement or too big, In lamens, a lack of new competitive maps.

They continuously jumped back and forth between the people they were listening to and for that reward we got constant shotgun and hitbox changes. They simply didn't understand the latest trends in the gaming industry and the fallout of fast paced fps.

With syncerror leading the way, the team failed to follow through on promises and gave excuses instead of owning up to their mistakes.

There's so much more that went on behind the scenes, from allowing tierslumming from their friends to catering to pro players and neglecting the public crowd (majority).

With a failed subscription model and limited payment options, discouraged customers got the run around on the forum and from ordus.

This game was just an experiment and now we know once and for all that browser games are NOT the future of gaming. Thank god.

also the lack of a regulated space ctf

jones killed ctf4

Mo money mo problems...

Life after death.

oh look its one of those threads

oh look its one of those threads

Last time I checked, QuakeCon is a month away. It ain't dead yet. Not to mention, do you know how many times quake has had a brief hiatus in major events?

I mean c'mon, enough with the doomsayer bull shit. Just because LoL gets 180K on a stream and QuakeLive doesn't, doesn't mean the game is dead.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the relevant people still play this game. You know who I mean? The people who consistently are playing well at the events, the top 16-24 players world wide as far as I know are still playing quake. In other words, the main people that make you want to watch a stream, still play.

ESL is 1 event, and the prize money was garbage/late anyways. Is it really such a big loss? And are we really worried about ESWC? I mean why are we putting so much stock in ESWC all of a sudden? Any tournament that puts "trackmania" or source as a main game, obviously doesn't care about the #s. So why not QL? Doesn't make sense.

From a realistic perpsective I'm not seeing much of a difference here, with the exception of ESL.

oh look its one of those threads

The sad truth is that exponentially more people play CS at Quakecon than every Quake game combined. People go for the vendor booths/BYOC, and because it's free to attend.

you're in denial dude

tbh as a guy who used to play ut (not that its terrible but ...) over quake you shouldnt really have a say on all of this

that might be the most dumb thing i've ever read on ESR, and that is saying something.

I played UT for 2 years when it was a part of major organizations like WCG and then I played CS for 4 years during its *prime* when it was a part of every major league in existence. Played PK during world tour and I have played q4/Q3/qlive since 2006 at cpl/eswc/esl/qcon/dreamhack, etc etc etc...

clearly you are clueless

Exactly my point, you play where the money is ever since ut "died", not because you love the game per sé

But yeah i'm obviously clueless :-)

lol so now you can speak for me about which games I enjoy?

clueless.

Kinda convenient you happened to lose interest in every game you 'love' right around the time the money involved started going downhill innit :P

But the reason i say what i did is because

a) youre very much a newcomer to the quake scene
b) your main feats have been whining (Chance anyone) and supposedly retiring

I'd much rather have input from an oldschool "not-relevant" person , all youve contributed to the quake scene thus far has been attention seeking

hes played quake for 5 years, yet is a new comer

both weird and true at the same time

Wat

5 years is new when it comes to quake

QL has never been "alive" so to speak, compared to Q3 golden era or other more successfull FPS competitively (namely CS).

What is alive? Some lame ass online tournaments (that you can only win if you have a good connection, plus paying for shitty-ass Premium to play more maps, including 8 year old maps that used to be free) and like 3 or 4 LAN tournaments were you can only get there by invite or by trying to beat the same boring cunts over the net, PLUS having the money to travel and for the hotel since there is only a couple of dudes who get that paid.

QL is a failure. To consider a game successfull and calling this whole thing pro-gamming, that would constitute the game allows you to make al living out of it placing top10 worldwide. This is clearly not the case. One would have expected that in 2002 this was still not the case, but even back then you made more money from tournaments (WCG anyone?). Back then, you could go to a local network area with your friends and you could find people playing Q3 on LAN. You know, that human interaction, talking to the people you play with in real life, organizing little tournaments for little prices LOCALLY so you can feel the nice pressure of playing in a tournament with mates without having to travel overseas in order to get beaten on the first round. If Cooller and all those people are so good and so relaxed during tournaments it's beacuse they didn't grow up playing on their bedrooms alone, they grew up playing at local tournaments, so they are used to play with people walking around and so on. You can't train this sort of thing if there is no fucking way to host a LAN server. This stupid decission by id has killed a unique opportunity where you would let owners of LAN locals to install a free, official Q3 version where you woulndn't need to install ANYTHING (no patches, endless search for different maps, no mods etc). It would have been a win-win investment but those morons wanted you to stay at home like an antisocialfag if you wanted to train for some tournament, or just play for fun.

Well now it's too late. Only Q5 being awesome and lots of TV ads can bring the Quake name back again into something that it's worth calling pro-gaming and not just "16 guys trying to win the equal of the average worker salary". And im pretty sure it will be even a bigger failure than Q4 was because they don't learn.

Even if id did everything right, even if they listened to every request of the community, included every needed feature, I don't think QL would have so much better life. Yeah we may would have had increased player base/stream numbers in the beginning but in a long run I don't think it would save the game from slow death.

Quake is just too hard for today's pc/console (casual) players. It's not casual enough. You have to dedicate a lot of time into it to be so-so, and more and more of time/dedication to be fairly good (generally speaking). It's a years taking process for most of people. Then you have games like CoD and clones where you can be hero after few games coz these games doesn't require as much skill/time as Quake, they're not complex at all.

Other than that I agree 100% with what Carmac said on LO3, why Quake has failed.

Id's fault is only small part of Quake's failure. Quake's nature as a game is what makes it so unique in FPS world, but sadly it doesn't really belong to this world of shitty shooters where every new title is going easy (casual) mode. Plus every FPS title is mostly focused on team-based play, and other FPS games which could be a 1v1 game, but no company is focusing really on multiplayer.

Guessing SC2 is easy then..

It's completely different learning process, and yes this process is easy comparing to QL.

SC2 is really easy to pick up, mastering the game is uber hard.

in its core, quake is so much simpler, you just take a gun and shoot at someone
its all about how you get people into the game and make them learn and progress while having fun, see my below post

Yea I've read it. I agree that in-game/browser ladder/league would help hugely in every aspect of the game/community. Something where you can check your progress, see where you're at in rankings, climb to different leagues/ladder positions. Sadly Quake as of now is just jumping into random/meaningless games without any real purpose/motivation. Even I do get bored by it recently since I can't find (at a time) a proper 1v1 duel opponent since its either below my skill or way above and I won't spend 10-15 mins finding proper opponents (so I enter almost everything at a time :c) :s Gladly, there's TDM pickup which is great but still too small.

Still SC2 is quite different learning process, it's for sure more fun (mainly due to ladders and rts's nature of the game).

actually, public ladders and stats and shit totally inhibit me.

I cannot understand how somebody can want to play knowing that all that stuff can be seen by anybody else. I don't mind having my personnal record and keeping track of all that stuff myself / in private ( that's what I used to do when I played on iccup with a gazillion accounts ) but I really dislike having it all public. It doesn't motivate me at all, it just makes me NOT want to play.
If I have a bad streak, seeing it in the latest games played thing bums me out. If I see a game that was close yet I lost it, it bums me out. If I see a game that was close and I won it via some random lucky shit, it bums me out aswell.
When I had a bad streak on an iccup account, I just put it aside for a moment and played on another one until I felt like grinding back from D- to D+/C-. Rinse and repeat over a dozen random accounts.
Checking my progress : yes.
Trying to gauge how big my epenis is : nah.

But erh, whatever, my ql sub will be over in a month, I'll just create a dozen random aliases then.

care too much about what others think

Errrhhhhh no. I care too much about automated failure tracking. ( so terribly worded in yesterday's post )

i know what u mean.

really?

yes, i care way too much about stats :/

I wish I could disable all of that shit.

yepp. I would not mind! Stats should not matter but kills and wins should.

If having your record private doesn't bother you and you don't care what others think, why does it bother you if your record is public?

don't like e-penises competitions.

So you could play under one alias, nobody would know it's you and you would have stats in one place.

boring to have to wait 15seconds + 12 vid_restarts + I paid for an account anyway.

You know it's easier to admit you're ashamed of your losses.

I don't like to get my losses rubbed in by the game itself. There's a difference between playing like utter shit and only getting a w/l record ( my experience on iccup ) and being bad yet being laughed at by the game itself ( hello quakelive )
I'm sorry I'm still a human being with feelings and shit like that.

What is the difference between iccup and quakelive? Both save your win/loss and both save your match history.

You don't get detailed stats unless you dig for them on iccup.
gl having one account on ql for each map and matchup ( understand opponent ).

I don't understand why would you have a different account for each matchup with the advanced stats iccup had.

In ql you have to look for your match history too, so I don't know what your point is.

Because the sole purpose of said account is to massgame ?

Why can't you have one account instead of N?

You've never played on iccup, have you?

I played a few games.

That's probably why you didn't think of dodging korean hours/ having an account to be used during their user peak/ dodging good people specifically playing during the korean user peak/ new season when everybody gets back down to D.

I'd have killed myself if I had to play all my games on a single account then check the stats and take out every single one against a guy who was B- during the previous season or games against koreans ( even though there's pretty much no need to check their nationality as they trashtalk even more than russian quake players ), learning a new map ( aka getting my ass filled with pepper a hundred times - then "only" get raped another hundred times ) which would make the whole account drop down to d-.

Launch starcraft, log into your gazillion accounts, just note the w/l to see if there's any change. Problem solved.

So we're back to the drawing board. You care about your stats too much (regardless of whether they are public or not).

just play on iccup, you'll see how much time you can play on a single account, just for the sake of dropping to d- everytime you try something new.

I think I played 20 games before I won my first one.

e: but you might have a point because of the different division channels (unless you were d level, then not)

I kept bumping between D+ and C- on most of my accounts, with some stuck on C for a while.

So you've played 20 games before winning one. That's actually pretty nice, In what unusual spot had you built that proxy gateway ? :D

In what unusual spot had you built that proxy gateway ? :D

rofl

I probably won against someone with even worse macro than me.

I wouldn't say "easy" so much as intuitive. You don't have to learn awkward control abuses - you get better through strategy and speed. Strafejumping is an unnatural concept, and a newbie coming over even from any other FPS game simply won't be able to relate. Item timing is another concept that most players probably would never think of if they weren't told about it.

Im a high level duel player at QL and couldn't even beat the noobest noobs at SC and SC2 when I tried.

maybe you are all aim and you are very good dodger and your worst part is strategy?

Actually the opposite.

Quake is just too hard for today's pc/console (casual) players. It's not casual enough. You have to dedicate a lot of time into it to be so-so, and more and more of time/dedication to be fairly good (generally speaking). It's a years taking process for most of people.

but thats not quake failing as a game, that quakelive faling as a platform.
quakelive gives a new player no way to see his progress, no near time goals. you shouldnt need to learn how to time 3 items, know every jump on a map and have 30+lg to get a first feel of accomplishment.

give something to a player just for playing, additional skins or so, maybe even unlocking maps. then enable him to see progress on a ladder for example. i am a really casual sc2 player and i play with a mate who is just horrible but we can have a lot of fun and motivation to play and get better with the sc2 ladder. doesnt matter that we suck and have low apm and so on cause our opponents are as bad but slowly we are climbing up the ranks and leagues anyway.
now imagine the same for quake. 2 buddies that dont even need to know how to strafejump could do a party with one click and play 2v2 ca on a ladder and get hooked to learn and get better. when they realize they should use rockets in close range fights, it should make them feel good cause they can finally beat those bronze league guys with smarter weapon selection, then they get promoted to silver and the see people rocketjump for the first time and just go "shit i wanna to that". thats how progress and motivation should work. not getting raped in ffa with 3:40 for the first 2 month.

quake is a great game and i believe that it can still be popular nowadays, it just needs to keep up with the time and offer a decent platform for players of all experience and skill levels.
remember that feeling when you managed to do some strafe jumping for the first time or when you pulled off bridge2rail after trying so hard? this kind of stuff will still have the same magic on the new generation of players, we just have to take them by the hand a little bit more nowadays to get them there.

god the unused potential and missed opportunities make me so angry
i love quake and what id is doing with ql is a disgrace

/rant

I agree with everything

and the potential was huge. I hope there is still time. I mean time for ql becoming greater, because I don't believe those nonsense that it will die.

Even if it dies, which won't happen, I couldn't care less. It is not like my life is depending on a game. Therefore, I don't need to whine, cry, whine some more, cry more, write threads, find stats about it, argue, hunt cheaters, play the prophet role and obsess about it, waiting for it to happen.

I think if they ramped up QL development after Rage release and added:



- ladders
- skins/achievements/other visual crap, for money and for playtime
- fixed some major bugs, not that many are left
- released freeze tag and most of the paid content for free users
- released map making tools for PRO users
- added more social features, pickup chat and integrated streaming (or GTV of course, that's not a priority anymore tho)
- added a tournament organizing system (like in BLC?)
- improved clan and player pages to include information from both the ladder and the tournament system

if they added the ones in bold, the game would be able to keep its players

if they added all, in half a year or a few big updates.. the game's popularity would grow many a time and who knows what would happen then.

The most important thing is keeping players, but with a playerbase that big QL would need more buzz, which could be generated by those silly little social features and\or a marketing campaign

the 5 remaining people left would be very happy ...

- released freeze tag and most of the paid content for free users


-> That shouldve been in bold aswell. The most retarded move ever was to not release it for free. None is playing this when it could be even more popular than instagib or ffa....

freeze tag, probably yes. But I'm afraid they cannot afford releasing a lot of the other content for now

but it would be great for the buzz, definitely.


Just like bomb and defuse :)

I remember when i first played q3. I started against bots. Then when i had a good internet connection i decided to try and play online. I was convinced most everyone was cheating. There was no way possible anyone could aim that well.

Then i met s4t4n. He told me about this magic thing called strafe jumping. Told me there were these community made maps and mods. He taught me how to strafe on trickhouse beta 3. I still remember my first bridge to rail. Took at least 2 months to get it...and then another month to be consistent with it. He taught me all the console commands.Bardok and -O- nebula also helped me a lot.

Now days, there arent people willing to teach anyone anything in the current quake community. Plus there aren't any defrag maps in QL that could be run on a server to teach people on.

yeah, thats what clans used to do. the further back in time you go, the more of a community effort there was. the mod scenes, the clan scenes and clan wars. i remember clans actually recruited promising looking newbs to train them, or hpbs because they would be good when they get broadband. but all this was because quake *was* the only multiplayer. the moment CS burst in popularity and other games started to compete and put serious effort in MP.

quakelive is just not being marketed well enough. if they continued to run as many ads as they did for the public release, (and we got *a lot* of newbs joining the game all of a sudden back then), invested in communities, tournaments, websites, and ladders, quake would be pretty popular. I think they're not investing much in it because they think its just not as good a return on their money as something else.

The point is that there are things definitely worth the time.. It might not be beneficial to run a marketing campaign or move into intensive development, but ladders, for example, would be able to keep many players and would definitely pay for themselves back in time...

With that many interviews (if they read any), and their general knowledge, I bet they know that well enough. They're not doing it because they're busy with Rage and other crap.

Things have changed. It isn't 1999 anymore.

i started in march 2005. it was like this for me until 2008-2009.
My clanmate/founder s4t4n taught...everyone he met everything he knew. he wasnt the best. he just loved the game so much he wanted everyone to love it to. Hell wee all went on to make some defrag maps :D Minions cpm runs...other friends..bardok...pornstar...ghost ect ect...bardok taught us the map making....anyone know if he's still around?

I think I might have seen him.

Go to #dfmap on quakenet. All the mappers are there.

he's oldschool ..im sure you've played one of his gazillion maps :D
Bardoks the man.

i dont use irc..never have

Of course I've played his maps, but there aren't a whole lot of really memorable ones. They're all good from what I do remember :)

THIS, I started playing sc2 too lately and though i was totally shit at the start it was still fun playing. I just love ingame ladders, it takes like 20sec to find a even matchup and climbing from leagues to higher gives a great deal of motivation.

In quake i am semi-high skilled, but usually I dont care enought to play since I dont have anything where I can check my progress, only times I have had any motivation playing quake was the times I was constantly playing against same opponents and seeing my development compared to theirs.. But usually I just wanna go for a few fast games which means I have to either rape pub newbs or wait +10mins for even matchup, which is something i am not likely do...

the beauty of sc2 ladder is that you dont even have to improve youll be moved forward just by playing. a false progress is precoded in it. not that it wouldnt be a genius idea but lets be honest a ladder itself wouldnt save quakelive, only if it would have some faked progress encoded to it.

id software should pay pro players to play worst and worst

you're definitely right about LADDERS for new players to see their progress

it has been said 1 trillion times

If done properly it will almost double ql’s value

... yet we are still w8ing

absolutely. part of the problem is that quake doesnt give a way in which to learn the basic skills offline. there should be a structured way to learn things like aiming, timing and movement without doing it on a server where anything u try to learn is likely to get u raped in the beginning.

there should be defrag like maps, not just for learning movement but also for the other skills. sort of obstacle based maps where u need to hit say certain points on the map with very little time or be at certain spots on the map at certain times etc. u can get pretty creative with that sort of thing and i dont think its that hard.

honestly i think if we did quake 5 and did a good job of selling the game and having lots of goal oriented lessons for new players, with some good community involvement like videos and stuff like day 9 does for sc, it would have a good shot at becoming quite popular imo.

however id needs to do its part and do a good job of marketing the game really really well initially. shouldnt be that hard. they had zenimax do a good job of going viral with brink, which was such a shit game compared to quake. just repeat that with a new quake game.

it might also help to have a single player version for the console players. and then use that to lure them into the multiplayer pc version.

lol sif brink really went viral..

it did BEFORE it got relased. everyone was giong to try it. then ofc they realized it was a pos.

well i guess viral might be the wrong word. but they certainly did a good job of reaching a fairly large initial audience.

No, viral is a good word. It was like an infection that spread, then was cured and disappeared.

I think having defrag in would be like having a movement school. If they implemented it correctly. Ghosts, button presses, etc and any other cool stuff the client has these days. It's always good to spec good runners.

oh i remember doing my first bridge2rail jump. that was a great day. i was young and I soooo wanted to do it again :D

b2r is too easy these days but is better for noobs. My favorite was in the cpma vq3 days I could do it 90% of the time, 10% mistakes.

Thank you. It's hard to get the masses here on esreality to understand because they are rather out of touch.

Id software is not hte problem. Quake Live would sell itself if there was a demand for it. There isn't and that is the core of the problem.

While there are some demand issues, QL is certainly both failing in demand, and supply. Quake 3, Quake 4, and Quake Live have all failed in sales. UT3 sold well over a million copies, so the problem is more than just demand.

I doubht that q3 failed in sales (if q3 failed in sales, the engine made up for it because it got sold xxx times)

q3 did fail in sales


and the engine did pay for itself. Multiple times, I bet.

ok good to know. but as long as they can market the engine, everyone should be fine. let's just hope they make a ton of money with rage and then move on to make something better :p for example, quake 5 :)

just a few features (or even just 1, ladders), a little upkeep and QL could be so much better ;(

For QL, I merely meant players who have played it. To look at it as far as sales, it was a catastrophic failure of epic proportions.

I just bought 1-3 on the steam sale for the crack

Gee, i wonder whose responsibility it is to advertise the game? I guess you're in the camp that think we, as consumers/customers/players of ql need to contribute more instead of being leeches. Sorry, but id's advertising campgaign never got off the ground because.... wait for it... THEY NEVER ADVERTISED QL AFTER LAUNCH. THAT is id's fault, not the community's like yakumo, tucker and anhedonic may have you believe.

Do you realize several millions of people have tried this game?

Yet the retention rate is incredibly low. Why? Because no one in 2011 plays the tough, difficult, hard, complex fast paced shooters.

They play COD and games like that.

People just don't want to admit that video games have changed since 1999. It is a console world, and it is a casual gamer world.

Do you realize several millions of people have tried this game?

Citation needed.

Several hundred million.

What are you smoking. several hundred million? ROFLLMAOLOL

Several billion.

dot dot dot

Exactly what I was thinking

Hang 10
Accumulate 10 hours of time played.
Date awarded: 08/11/201061 friends (83% of total) have earned this award
138565 players (7% of total) have earned this award
Testing One..Two..
Complete 1 online match.
Date awarded: 06/02/201065 friends (89% of total) have earned this award
553597 players (28% of total) have earned this award
gg
Create an account and complete a match against Crash.
Date awarded: 03/24/200947 friends (64% of total) have earned this award
412424 players (21% of total) have earned this award

So about 600k players have tried out the game. Many more have made accounts.

How many people actively play and watch competitive Quake? 8k-10k is the usual amount of viewers, but quite a few of those people are from other games such as SC2 or are general MLGd/dreamhack/IEM fans watching.

That's a 1.6% retention rate at best, and it's probably closer to 1% when you consider viewers from other sources.

do you even trust on ql global stats? anyway based on that info ql has about 1.98E6 accounts

you can see the how many people have gotten awards again, if you count by those you can get 2-3 million depending on which you count from. the players have been there, they just didnt stick around

have you ever tried searching names on ql? Search using the letter a sometime, then the letter b, i'm sure you'll figure out real quick that 80% of those accounts aren't real...

have you ever tried to tie your dick in a knot?

lol i can't say i have. Please teach me obi wan kenobi

Have you ever wondered why it's like that? For instance I looked up the user "AB". Played for 7 minutes. Now why the hell woudl someone quit after 7 minutes of playtime?

Because the game is too hard.

Have you ever wondered why it's like that? For instance I looked up the user "AB". Played for 7 minutes. Now why the hell woudl someone quit after 7 minutes of playtime?

I looked up the user CZ too. 39 minutes, 3 quits. Never completed a match. So if you look at my other reply with statistics, you can see that 600k completed a match, but likely millions more have played but just quit the match.

Because the game is too hard.

Since most players seem to have multiple accounts (even people on ESR seem to have 5-10), the awards don't mean much. Even if you were looking at the awards as if they were individuals, it still isn't that much.

1. quake lost his mojo
2. always favour 1v1 but not tdm at lans

QL duel > QL everything.

false

q3 defrag > ql everything

I wasn't denying that, because I never even mentioned defrag or q3.

its not dead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCFMDLakxaY

do you?

what do you care, you only play pub duels on ztn/dm13. you can do that forever if you feel like it, IEM, ESWC and whatever dont have anything to do with it

or pay for some "new" maps? I would rather LoL

I do care about quake. I would like to play quake in future too, mostly for fun though. Its just sad that if id Software will take failure of quake live as of "QUAKE IS DEAD, THERES NOTHING WE CAN DO TO MAKE IT BIG AGAIN"

That would require a redefinition of "forever" to "until id pulls the plug".
Oh well, at least chances are QW will still be around by then.

QL isn't dead. Back in the old days, when you young lot were still in short-pants, there was an organization called the CPL. They were basically the only esports organization. When id refused to let them use Q3 anymore (because of a leaked email exposing the unscrupulous practices of the CPL), Q3 lost basically the only tournament support there was. Did that kill Q3? Absolutely not... people kept playing, new organizations cropped up and featured Q3, and so the beat went on.

Losing IEM isn't nearly as bad as losing the CPL back then, and even that didn't kill Quake. Seems some people just want Quake to be dead, so they fail to view the situation objectively.

hello this is 2011 calling, I heard u are stuck in 2000

Jonesy,

QL may not be dead, but it is dying. I grew up with Quake as well, but I'm not so naive to deny that this game is a pale shadow of its once glorious self. I even still enjoy breaking out Q3 every now and again for a couple of rounds with the bots, or an impromptu LAN game with a friend.

Q3 was able to survive after losing that major tournament support because it still had a huge playerbase and a very active community of individuals making mods, new maps, etc. However, QL has a shrinking playerbase as people get pissed off at a variety of things, ranging from lack of adequate payment options, lack of new content on a regular basis, lack of new gametypes, lack of anti-cheat measures to keep the aimbots at bay, etc., and QL relies exclusively on id for providing "new" maps and "new" gametypes. I've seen the number of new and old players shrink drastically from the earliest of the beta days to where we are currently.

Bottom line: QL is definitely not another Q3. At this point, I'd rather they put QL out of its misery and develop a Q5 game -- I think that's honestly were the future hope of resurrecting this once proud franchise lies. Judging by comments from Carmack in an MTV article recently, it sounds like there are developers within his crew that agree with me.

The game has not changed too much - it is the people that played it that have matured. I don't need ladders, gtv, or extended stats. It is okay - but the casual noob needs it. And nowadays, everything that is hard is ultimately bad. I laugh at people that play tf2, cod or cs.

and the millions laugh back at you

No, they envy me because I am capable of playing this game after 10 fucking years.

I think it just needs a real sequel. with everything else that everyone suggested

jumbro whines in every tread, how ql is bad, players who play it are losers / fags, ql dead , bad this and that.
you don't have talent for quake, you are random noob from other 1000 ql mids, play it for fun , or leave it alone. stop whine kid, you won't get ql skill doing that.

and yes, Q3 was already dead in 2003, it always had little player base , compare to cs , sc and lot mmorpg, players playing it for fun, not for cash. Quake will never rise again, that gametype dead years ago and won't comeback.

to be honest if i cared enought i can quarantee that i would get so good that i would atleast rape you :)

lol

Well, if that's the case, I'm sure Guard is sorry.

I think too that he really is :)

Do you know that if I cared enough I would rape you both?

Do you know that if I cared enough I would comment!

But you just commented.

What does it mean? WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN, MAN? OH MY GOD MY EYES ARE BLEEDING, HELP MEEE, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHDSISDHFSDFSHDJFSD THE BLACK SERPENTS GNAWING AT MY BRAIN AAAAGGHG

u mad?

if i cared i'd rape you all at the same time with half of my screen covered
just sayin.

lmao

lol gtfo back under a rock.. you couldnt do it even with cheats :D

love ur constant rage, grow up :)))

rage, is this ur reply!?!? and those fake smileys dont bring shit to your credibility virgin

Im perfectly calm when im writing this.. you need to realise Im gonna bring up ur cheat history every time u make such brilliant statements.

as for topic related:
You played a game before, that was at its peak in 02-03, yet the last ban you received for cheating was in 09?Why did you continue to play "dead" game for so long time?Im sure ur stalking Pelitutka servers even today.. Quake is not dead it always had a small playerbase and I dont expect every 13y old kid to like it as theres tons of games with super graphics and dumbed down gameplay for their taste.

p.s. haista paska vittupää

the peak of it was foc 05, i stopped playing it like 07 or something and after that i just pub cheated on servers which were anyways full of cheaters, cuz i couldnt care a shit about it. Also your being idiotic as you think that I care a shit about you bringing up the fact that i cheated 1000 years ago in a different game just for fun :::D

But the most fun part is that it just shows how much it got to you that i developed so fast to one of the scenes best players back then :DDD

nice smileys, trying to show some confidence?I bet ure very silent irl.. fucking sociopath.

edit:
I cannot see how that lan is proving game was at the peak in 05 when community shrinked for over 50% in that time.. get some brain dum8o.

quite the opposite, to be honest some people say i have adhd just cuz i am hypersocial :D

And peak was just before foc05, after fail of it and cancellation of up coming focs scene started to slowly dive down and it died something like 07-08

:DDD

mikä vittu siinä on et kaikenmaailman tonnit jotka ei oo ikinä saavuttanu mitää missää luulee olevansa vitu hyviä

mikä siin o et joku noin säkki ees kehtaa huudella ::D

Mitenköhän mun taitotaso liittyy tähän asiaan mitenkään.

lähinnä site ettei jaksa kuunnella sun tasoste naperoide avautumista ku ei ois hirveesti varaa sanoa :DD

rofl

why is the game dead? looks the same to me...

Guys. Time to start upgrading your M16s because it's time for some next gen FPS action. Remember, like the guy they hired to 'fix' STALKER said, there is such a thing as "too much fun". People don't want fun - they want to be rewarded with a rewarding list of rewarding achievements.

ql is dying because TONY was too awesome for the community to handle, therefore self destruction was the only possibility.

his argument. QL died because cg_gibs 0

exactly. Let's think back shall we. What made quake so special. Was it the beautiful graphics and the outstanding gameplay? NO. it was the fucking gore and the fucking Nine Inch Nails grunge music coupled with some cool looking monsters! NOt this pussy shit. let's get real. There's a reason quake died after the release of q3 because it wasn't q1 or q2.

Bring back the real quake, not these spacemarine halo knockoff battles. Where's the gore? Problem is, id thought they could appeal to the masses by rating the game for teens instead of stickign with their guns. Fear hasn't sold out now have they? f3ar comes out soon and its' gonna be just as good as the previous 2. Quake looks like a yahoo game at this point. Syncerror and his team sold you out.

While I some of the reasons you have mentioned in the past I agree have lead to the downfall of quakelive. I don't think gibs are honestly a significant one of those.

While I am sure it had some impact there were far bigger issues many of which have been mentioned in this thread that make this pale in comparison

now yes, but back then, when q3 was announced ... it turned a corner. Now we're used to the lack of gibs/gore/nin music/monsters/etc but that is what the original quake fans remembered about quake and what got them interested in the first place. Quake needs to shake things up again. Go back to it's glory days.Anything to turn this train around, cuz it's heading down a dead end tunnel.

ray what got me interested in Quake was the promise of a next gen 3d title from the makers of Doom and Wolfenstein. Not gore, gibs or anysuch crap, even though i was a teen back then (the people usually associated with being fascinated by gore)

Back on track, Q5 will come out. The franchise name with this kind of long history is not likely to get canned. As witnessed by Fallout 3, elitist history of a game attracts masses.

The question is what will makers of Wolfenstein, Doom and Quake do with Q5? Both gameplaywise and marketingwise

i'd like to see some co-op missions against monsters at diff difficulty levels.

I really think there's something more to what ray said. There was just SOMETHING subversive about quake with the gloomy, NIN tracks, in-your-face gnarly bestiary and the faux-gothic architecture. Kinda set it apart from more generic types.

Maybe an analogy: from an advertiser's point of view, take two bands who play hard rock: Aerosmith and Motley Crue -- Aerosmith is considered "safe" and sells lot of other products; whereas Motley Crue still seems a bit more dangerous and "not nice" to the generic shopper. Yes, therefore Quake=Motley Crue :()

exactly. Quake was different. Cutting edge even. They need to do something drastic to get people to pay attention again. All that blood and gibs is what got fear in the news when it was first released and it was, as i remember it, deemed as the bloodyist game ever made (on cnn).

I say, its' time for Quake to get back to its roots and up the ante so to speak. Something to get people talking. No more catering to 9 year olds. Take away the stupid pg rating and let's get back to the real quake. Who the hell plays with the background music anymore anyways? That was a huge part of the original quake series,

when quake was released it had the best engine on the market by far, this is always a big seller and popularity-maker for a game ...
see Wolfenstein/Doom/Quake/DonkeyKongCountry/FarCry ...
Donkey Kong Country would never have become as famous if it looked like Super Mario ...noone would have noticed a game like FarCry/Crysis ...

All this 'Quake live died' stuff makes the people here seem like drama queens.

Anyway, how can we improve QL? I think someone mentioned instituting a fraglimit for duel. Maybe that could be good, if the timelimit was removed. You can't win if you don't frag, so you can't really +back too much. Plus, until the fraglimit has been reached, it's always possible to mount a comeback. The same could be done for TDM, which may or may not make it more entertaining. There is at least one pro-sport with no timelimit (baseball), and it works fine.

...really....

seriously though these kind of fixes are not the kind of thing that ql needs to be "improved by". They may help the gameplay for ql vets but its really just more of the lets do shit to the shotgun to make it more fair.

It isn't going to help the popularity or bring in new gamers, and I honestly doubt it is going to do much for keeping the base that it has already.

Yeah man, it would be so awesome if they made Quake Live as exciting as baseball.

that was sarcasm i hope

Don't worry, it was. I went to a baseball game once and it was the most boring sport I've ever seen.

then you haven't seen curling

No, but I've heard all about it and I figure I'm not missing much... must resist... youtubing... curling... argh.

don't. for your own good.

rofl

QL TDM has atleast grown from fall to spring season on CB and i find it easier to find TDM praccs at my teams skill level compared to last year. Duel might be going down but TDM is still here and do we really need LAN tournaments to have some competition? Ive been playing UT1 since it came out and it has only had a few LAN tourneys and it's not until the last few years that the activity has died.

But yeah...the problem with UT and probably quake is that all players who grew up playing them have grown older and dont have the time to play enough anymore....very few new players are joining up....

QL just didnt kick off with the masses because everyone knows that it is a game from 1999. People want new things.

i dont believe that, did you follow the MLG stream? there were a lot of questions what the game was and how awesomely fun it looked. most negative comments were simply about graphics, but they were outnumbered by how cool the game looked like to play. the problem is, the guys who start it dont stick around because there is no casual-support like in _every single game_ thats been done this decade.

skillmatching and wc3-style ladder, implement those 2 and you can see the playerbase grow

amen

Agreed.

dunno why some people are in denial of the fact that learning quake is hard, no matter how much noob friendly tutorial shit you make it wont change the situation, there is only like 1% people who have got good at it at the expense of only 2-3 years, most people I have played have been playing quake 3 mods or some related game / mod for 4-5 years and have only got semi-decent, not to mention those fags that are playing from 1996 or 1999 and still suck. Just accept it, only way it could have survived was not to make people learn everything rather make them play people of their level whenever they want (which SC2 has), to do that we need millions of people playing in the first place..which never happened..so can you now see the circular dependency which makes quake fail ?

Also disagree with dkt that quake survives alone on the fact that the top 20 people are still playing and they are worth watching.

A lot of people tried QL. If it had ladders and all the learning tools from the start, then a marketing campaign, was two times as successful as a tournament game and then also got spread by word, who knows what would have happened.


How you can call quake beyond hope when QL was such a failure and drove away what, 95% of the people that tried it due to technical\site features? Right, you can't. Even if there was no marketing campaign... The coverage QL got could be easily enough for a community twenty times as big as this.

If QL hadn't had queues in the first few days/weeks(?) of open beta maybe vast majority of casual/new players wouldn't abandon the game so early. It was so frustrating for everyone and id never informed anyone that those queues were only temporary thing. Would you play any game if it had queues? Would you wait for your "turn" for 5-10-15 mins? Don't think so.

It was a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge nail in the coffin in the early stages of the game, its first steps in the light. Carmack was talking about "millions trying/playing QL" yet when id went open they weren't even prepared for hundred of thousands.

mmo's never had queues?

you're very wrong

I don't know since the only mmo I played is Ultima Online for several years and two months of WoW. I suppose some of the over-populated severs may have queues but I don't think they had them 1-2 days after game's release.

I might be wrong but the thing is, you can't compare Quake to any MMO. Generally in Quake you hop in and play some (few) games on a ONE particular server, then you have to change a sever (not enough people left/too high/low skill/trying other modes/stupid people etc.) --> quit it and wait again in queue. When you play MMO it's mostly a several hours experience, so you can wait those 5 mins and you won't be frustrated since you're in the world where you have everything available at once.

when rift was released there was a 10 hour queue to the most popular server, for weeks. think you still need to queue to get in and the game has failed ages ago.. but yeah you cant compare quake and mmo's, but queueing is quite common nowadays

Still no one really expected queues in Quake, an FPS game in a browser. It was hilarious and I bet due to that we lost really, really a lot of potential newcomers.

Well id didn't expect such a numbers in the first days (prolly) but still it's such a shame...

imagine that, no critical bugs and ladders


would've been huge

bitter much? xD

Wrong. My friend has played quakelive for 1 year now. I've been teaching him for about 3 months. He is tier 4 now, about 43 % rail and 35 %lg average. He isn't good yet but very close to breaking into the upper tier for ctf/ca.

I taught him the weapons, how to dodge, how to strafe, how to time etc. If you teach them properly you can be good at quake in 1.5 years..

Still that is a long time but shit nigga, ITS QUAKE SON, IT AINT EASY.

btw butcher u suck, since q3 till now, how can u suck still wtf

fuck u bitch u dont even have the balls to tell here whats your quakelive nick, so that u can use hacks to cover your lack of skill. In your case it will take me 2 days to teach someone, 1 day to teach strafing and 2nd how to use the hack.

GTFO troll.

rofl, the truth offends does it not?

yeah. you talk a lot for someone who doesn't give their name.

you telling me to register? I never had an esreality account and I never will. don't worry about me, worry about your self, you scrub.

is that a question or self reflection?

just post your quakelive nick right here.. simple ?

problem?

I already have a big dick, i don't need to flaunt shit on the internet, you know you suck, which is why ur mad, this is the same reason i dont care if ppl think i cheat or think im whoever, cuz it aint true. rofl

lol @ jamalz saying "i don't need to flaunt shit on the internet", this has to be a quote :)

This is why Quake died.
http://www.youtube.com/gaming?c=20&p=1

/thread.

fuck you, i went off on a tangent and wasted an hour of my life playing spot the difference

Imo one big factor that i don't read alot about is the lack of real servers.
I remember when I started playing FPS with Warsow, I was as clueless as you can be. But after a couple of hours I found one or two servers that I liked and stuck with them. On that server there were more or less the same players every evening. And not only did I have people to ask stuff (since i've seen them a couple of times), I could see myself getting better by comparing me to the same players every night.

Stats and ladders got me hooked later, trying to get into the weekly server top5 or something. Not to mention the community feeling you get by having your favorite servers.

QL lacks that feeling. There you have a bunch of randoms most of the time, unless you have a big friendlist or do pickups etc. which is nothing noobs have or do. They join a server, get destroyed, after the round everyone leaves (another thing that didn't happen with real servers). They join the next game and get destroyed by 15 other guys. That's about as demotivating as it gets.

Spawning servers as pro is really nice, but imo they should have let people spawn "normal" servers, maybe for a monthly fee.

idd, with "real" servers you know which ones to avoid and where to get the best personal experience. The QL tier system can't deliver that.

Absolutely right.

Majority of people would prefer having no servers at all and setup games similar to how pickups are organized.

People even get mad if you don't press f3 within 30 seconds, I doubt that they would patiently wait 20 minutes before their pickup is ready. For 1v1 and 2v2 that could work though, combine it with a ladder system maybe? :)

so true :( they took away the old server based "skill system/match making" and didn't replace it with anything proper.

Totally agree, I used xs4all ca server when I was a noob

Changing shit around a year later as if it's still in beta just makes you fucking angry. The hitboxes did not need increasing even if the hitboxes are not as big as the vq3. The rockets are borderline hitscans (exaggerating). Leave shit alone when it's good and fix the crashes and add some new ctf maps not more space maps like skyward, some good 4v4 ctf maps that perhaps are not regenerated oldies.

It almost makes me not want to renew my pro subscription because of the lack of new ctf maps and the aim being retardedly easy atm for most people.

well then, don't renew ?

I will, I don't play anything else, and hey, with id's track record all you have to do is wait 6 months and they will fundamentally change shit up again-then perhaps they will change it to being fixed on the next turn around, until the next 6 month cycle expires.


Plus, it's always cool to see the people who used to hit 65 rail and 65 rocket and 40 lg now hitting 77 percent rail and rocket and 45 lg while getting 29 lg kills and upwards to 14 railgun kills with that accuracy, go hitboxes, oh yeah and trolling their profile you can see all the back to back 8-0 wins, yeah those hitboxes rule make the game cool.

you obviously care and think about the game wayyyy too much.

it failed because of one and only one thing :

ID doesn't let the people host there own servers.

The system they have pick would have been good 10 years ago, with crapy connections peeps could style run servers with very high tick rate.

But nowaday most of the people have at least ADSL/ADSL2/XDSL / OPTIC FIBER / CABLE.

The only thing that i wonder is what was the objectif of QL.

Yeah it sucks to have to have a session and then no filter of the trolls too. If the game had a dedicated server that could be up 24/7 it would be awesome.

yeah ofc, every guy who'd put up a dedicated server back then would have the machine sitting in his bedroom, hooked to his isdn connection, that's the reason why sv_fps was 20.

Dedicated servers were totally not hosted on professional nodes and sv_fps was clearly not set at 20 because otherwise the server would flood clients with too much data that random Joe's connection would struggle to handle.

Retard.

The objective of ql ? Go listen to carmack back in 08-09, pretty obvious they were trying shit out with another licensing scheme ( infrastructure + browser based + financed by ads ) to sell, picked quake3 because they'd have a following and it was pretty easy to set up with their system. Then it failed because they actually had way more work to do than planned and their whole "financed by ads" stuff took a massive nosedive.

Ok retard, I rented from a dedicated server from a company that let me edit the command line and run it at max hahaha.

Well I guess they had a lot of fun in 2001 not being to hit shit because their bandwidth was cannibalized by the server.

Probably like 10 people out of 50000 QL players would ever think of hosting their own dedicated server, and only maybe 100 other people would ever care to prefer to play on those servers instead of ones provided by id. It's so specialized feature that it's utterly moronic to assume it could have anything to do with QL success.

What about all the people whose countries don't have servers? E.g. Israel.

It failed because the game is bad. It's a less good version of Q3.

When some tournaments dropped Q3, the top players started playing a shit game called PK because it was new. Then they moved to Q4 which was shit and became -at best- decent only because the players wanted it to work so much.

And now it's another crappy attempt at making Quake 'hot' again that fails.

Meanwhile, a small bunch of players sticked to the quake game they liked, be it QW, Q2 or Q3 and enjoy themselves in a GOOD game with good gameplay and all the necessary tweaks and tools that got developped by the community during the last 10 years.

What criteria do you use to tell that QL fails while QW/Q2/Q3 don't?

All the 3 mentioned games are taken care of the community - players, who listen to other players. Unlike Quakelive, where the professionals from ID think GTV is nonsense, best timelimit for duel is 10mins, for 2v2 15mins and that it was awesome to lose 2 years and a bunch of money trying to improve 1999 Quake 3 instead of buying OSP or CPMA. Because...they do it better than amateurs, right?

What I don't get: There are less than 30 players on a premium server and less than 20 on a private one right now worldwide (all gametypes, any difficulty, all arenas, all locations). Player numbers clearly show that their way to believe they know better and to ignore what the players like doesn't work. It couldn't be more obvious. Yet they don't change this stuff? Why? There are many little things like changing the timelimit that could greatly improve the game immediately, i. e. /kill for CTF, spawn system, ammo system, etc. Why still don't change? What are they waiting for?
Is it that their egos are too big so they rather let the game die than to admit they were wrong? I hate this psychological stuff over internet, but I guess we're running out of other explanations of what they're up to. At least I have no idea anymore why they still don't pick up what all those endless discussions have shown what the players like most ...

I use the whine criteria, it's very accurate !

I haven't seen any complain from the players regarding the gameplay of Q2 since the last patch got released which was around 1999.

I don't follow the QW scene but I doubt those guys would play a game for 15 years if they weren't perfectly happy with it.

There was some whine about Q3 and that only means it's a little bit weaker than the 2 previous instalments.

Now when you see all those threads on ESR about things that need to be fixed in QL, it's ridiculous. Moreover, most of the suggestions tend to make QL closer to Q3... Why not play Q3 instead of trying to fix its lousy clone ?!

Don't fix what isn't broken. Just go with Q3 specs with QuakeLive---we do not need hitscan rockets.

But it was broken, you just don't remember.

LG whoring = CPMA.

Yeah that's why tight hitboxes are good for this game. The way the hitboxes are now--they should put fall-off damage back on the lg.

the current hitboxes are nearly as big as the q3 hiboxes if you were to face them ( and not watch them at an angle of 45° ). Even without cripple, lg 8*20 would be completely broken.

But I have to admit that lg 8*20 and a 100dmg rail would somewhat balance the game back ( instead of qw rockets vs peashooters as it is right now )

Yeah one or the other, yeah with the fast rockets 100dmg rail is justifiable with the lg too and of course the plasma is so fregen badass now so I agree.

A great reason we're happy with it is that we're able to improve on it ourselves, both server side and client side. If QW was still the same game as in -99 or even -05 i'm not sure i'd still be playing (or well, i probably would but new features etc makes it much more exciting :D)

I was playing q3 in 2002+, i was doing it for fun with bots but i played alot,not so long ago i heard about QL and decied to try it, at first was playing CA for fun and get used to controls but after some time i realized its useless and i should play the real game aka duels, i lost my patience quite fast, its so hard to find anybody at my level whos not 20-0'ing me i stopped playing (i love this game i just rage alot when i lose ...), if anything this game lacks proper ladder and match making system it isnt too hard or hardcore by itself i would still be playing if the match making was good (the way blizzard did it in sc2 would be perfect)

tbh. they should release Q3A for free and close down QL ...
this would be the best thing for Quake ...
but in a way I don't want to see the Q3A gameplay again ...
it should be a CPM-Quake ...

Vote 4 Quake

http://esfiworld.com/polls/iem-6-which-game-w...n-included

not like these votes would matter much when some lol ceo sign a fat check for iem

Still doesn't hurt to vote.

tl;dr - Shitty game, shitty community, shitty developer, shitty tourney rules, shitty everything.

and you have a shitty nerd face.

And you're shitty at talkin shit about people with 5-year-old pictures on their profile. Your point?

Then get a not-5-year-old picture on your profile so people stop talking shit about your shitty nerd face.

Shitty nerd fatty face much?

syncerror that you?

if there's a guy called syncerror and you think that's me then no.
if that wasn't the question then I don't have a clue what you're on about.

oh sorry, i saw a shitty nerd face....

The bottom-line is, if id software will not provide the necessary developer support, we need to find another game and another company who will.

They don't even establish dialogue with the esports community or their own esports players. Even the least expensive of things, they fail to do. Esports is unlike regular sports, in that it requires developer support. So where the fuck is it?

f1

I've heard that if 50% of the premium and pro subscribers donate 100 dollars each, they will listen to the community and provide a ladder. On the Quakelive homepage will be implemented a direct link to the esl ladders.

i heard that if every free player donates his free time to the homeless than id will listen to the community. On the Quakelive homepage will be implemented a direct link to the homeless shelter.

good point. and then ID would sponsor the homeless with premium accounts so that they can get addicted to quakelive instead of booze and crack.
oh wait

sounds plausible

the biggest problem with quake live isnt all the shit they dont do about it, good players will always find a way around it, the biggest problem is that there is no dialouge and the noobs and veterans being dumped in on the same servers. there is no ownage in quake any more, its seriously boring, boring to watch and boring to play. people want more, less balance and faster gameplay. screw the shit most of u say about that the game is too hard people dont stick. why should we fill up the servers with casual players just to have a certain amount of players just so that its popular? screw that. it just ends up with more shitty games. its about quality not quantity. and why give the game to people who doesnt even want to be good in it? who doesnt understand it and just quits because its hard? lock them out in some quake lite version and let them them have their fun there. what about the rest of us who are serious about this game and want to play it and go on owning those who are less and have great players beside us who know wtf they are doing? why should we be ignored because they want to make it popular? i suggest they kick out the team that is working on this title now and bring back quake to how it was, plus the extras the commited playerbase loves about this game and hire those who want quake back. and get a team that has a dialogue with the community and make us know that they are here for us. then whoever comes in are free to enter. thats how it goes. and its too late. and why theres another thread like this... its like when you hit your dog, it wont trust you again and it will shit in your shoes.

all i saw was: f the noobs. On the other hand, i agreed with your 1st sentence hence why i plus'd you. I also agreed with you in regards to firing the current management of ql. They've done a piss poor job.

This is what happens.

Majority of whiners are basically whining about the same thing; campers, stackers, slummers, spammers, quitters, too much dmg... whatever.
All of a sudden theres a group and its got a name and all the ppl in that group are using it putting themself in a class of their own, noobs.

We who have been around know where they stand and why they whine. Its a part of the game, the learning experience and fighting your obstacles mentally. I'm not saying everyone, but most have probably been there.

This class hands of the whine to the QL Dev team and their forum as a request to save their ass. The QL Dev team then takes it to their concern and puts it on "things to fix".
What do they do? They go in the trap of setting it up forcing the gameplay on everyone, and its been going on in a constant rate since the game went out of beta.

All of a sudden this game is setup for the majority, the majority of quake live=newcomers.

What does that leave us who has been playing this game for 10+ years?
What does it even leave for competitive gameplay when those whiners are out of that box and have overcome the obstacle of being able to handle it from getting good in the game? Quake Live.
A dead Quake Live catered for the noob and the whiner.

This game has been going for over 15 years and we are now supposed to set it up for the weakness of the majority.

I doubt they even had a single fucking clue to begin with, i mean, Carmack's idea of making it a free quake 3 browser game was great, thats where it ended.
The idiots who got their hands on it have totally fucked it up, for the majority, 50 steps down in catering it for the noob.


And the annoyance in that they never make a word about anything, just leave everyone hanging making up for thoughts and speculations.
Probably the reason we are making up threads like this cause there is no answer, we just feel that its dead and we have to make some facts between ourselves for some consolidation of taking this crap of a game out in the physical world in taking a big fucking dump on it and leave it behind.

It has no place in the competitive scene any more, casters are abandoning it, old school players are whining, ESL, IEM... so yea, fuck the noobs(whiners), but fuck the ql dev team 1 more cause of listening to them. The truth is that iD has gone console and has given up on this crap 3 years ago.

stopped reading after first line, you're full of shit

and you are a clueless fuck.

inb4 vedic: "Quake live IS dead already"

But ya man, their communication is so beyond reprehensible. It's almost a crime really. Lots of people paid into the subscription model and many of them feel lied to for a number of reasons.

Syncerror and his team have really done a terrible job managing this game. Probably the worst iv'e ever seen for any game.

Bethesda, zenimax, id: They've failed consumers one too many times. Anyone who invests any kind of time and money into rage would be stupid to do so at this point.

Rage won't be fun for more than ~ 10 hours because it isn't Quake.

theres no pie either

* Remove losses/quits and Deaths out of the profile. People will care less about their stats and more people will try getting into it.

* Tiers should be more balanced.

* Get rid of some play modes. The community is being split up to much.

* Now the flame part, competitive scene should move to CTF and Duel only. If you want viewers (where it all is about) you need a mode which is understandable for the viewers. People who are not into TDM don't understand sh*t of what is going on and CTF is easier to learn.

* Stop crying about new maps, CS1.6 has the same maplist for years and that's how teams/players can improve. By constantly changing maplist new players need to start over and over again and the skill gap with the better players will never get smaller.

* Stop living in 1999, this is 2011.

exactly. hardly anyone in north america knows what tdm is because ... wait for it... NOONE IN THE US PLAYS TDM!