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Forums > Quake Live Forum

Conference-Demo Server - Concept (32 comments)

( Forum: QL)

Posted by Memento_Mori @ 15:03 CDT, 30 July 2011 - iMsg

How does it work?
1) Users/Admin connect to the server.
2) The admin tell the server to start a demo.
3) All clients receive the demo stream, mostly in sync (modulo ping, like gtv).
4) The server accepts command for playback (stop, play, rewind/go to time), either from the admin, or any user.

How?
Ioq3 based server / client. FTP to store demos on the server.

Why?
The main goal is to allow multiple people across the internet to watch a demo together, enabling in depth demo analysis while on voip. This is mainly intended for coaching, match preparation or debrieding, as well as casting/shows.

Is this already there?
No, this is just a concept. The idea crossed my mind recently, and I wanted to share. This is actially not too far from GTV, with the difference that the source is a demo and not a match being played. If somebody is interested in the development, let me know.

Edited by Memento_Mori at 15:04 CDT, 30 July 2011 - 5753 Hits

1%

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<< Comment #1 @ 15:16 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

BalkanFM

its pretty easy to just stream a recorded video and its easier for the user too.. so why go into all the work to create this and split the experience of the user on two applications(ql, audio)?

edit: above was meant for streaming to a larger audience with ql in mind as its the only part of quake thats still broadcasted on the net... as for the coaching and match preparation, a team of 5 can easily go on skype and launch a demo simultaniously...

Im not saying its a bad idea, its a good one that would definitly help to further advance the proffesional competitive part of game. i respect you if you want to dedicate your time and work to create this but i just cant see many people using it.

Edited by BalkanFM at 15:28 CDT, 30 July 2011

<< Comment #2 @ 15:22 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

Memento_Mori - Reply to #1

Streaming introduces a big delay, of about 5 seconds, which is way too much to be effective.

<< Comment #3 @ 15:30 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

BalkanFM - Reply to #2

sorry for the edit... whats the problem with delay?

Edited by BalkanFM at 15:30 CDT, 30 July 2011

<< Comment #5 @ 15:43 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

Memento_Mori - Reply to #3

The idea is to get a similar experience of being in the same room and watching a demo together. People may want to stop the demo to ask questions, or slow it down to have time to discuss things and so on. Interaction is the thing. And for that, you want to see the same thing at the same time as the others. Delays kill the discussion.

Edited by Memento_Mori at 15:44 CDT, 30 July 2011

<< Comment #4 @ 15:33 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

faerie_

welcome back to broodwar in 2002 ( not that the idea isn't good )

<< Comment #6 @ 16:38 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

bubu^

This is how GTV works...

Streaming a demo file over the internet.
But you don't have to wait to have completed the demo which means almost realtime broadcasting.

Now, if you wanna pay me, i'm interested to code it.

<< Comment #10 @ 16:57 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

zealot - Reply to #6

this was done in q3 at some point iirc?

<< Comment #13 @ 17:04 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

Memento_Mori - Reply to #6

you got an imsg

<< Comment #15 @ 22:41 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

BalkanFM - Reply to #13

mind me asking if youre really prepared to pay for this?

<< Comment #32 @ 02:59 CDT, 1 August 2011 >>

By

Memento_Mori - Reply to #15

I'm crazy enough to think of it. But there are several things to figure out before even start talking about money.

<< Comment #7 @ 16:46 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

dream on...

/thread

<< Comment #8 @ 16:46 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

noctis

wonder whatever happened to that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB6r5yXZ2-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8meYxAijBNA

<< Comment #9 @ 16:48 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

bubu^ - Reply to #8

give the source or it never happend :)

<< Comment #16 @ 02:15 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

T1E ' - Reply to #9

source:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB6r5yXZ2-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8meYxAijBNA
http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1879967

<< Comment #18 @ 02:41 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

kapca - Reply to #16

Is there an option for 30+ seconds delay like in gtv? Imo, it's a must for fair online competitions.

Edited by kapca at 02:45 CDT, 31 July 2011

<< Comment #19 @ 04:02 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

p0rt - Reply to #18

thats called a buffer, games only use 25kbs tops with 32 people on a map, you dont need a buffer unless you have a dialup modem or use 3g, 3g doesnt have the up speed for ping

clients are sent the demo list like a map list, and demo is played server side, client would be sent the demo snapshot messages

Edited by p0rt at 04:08 CDT, 31 July 2011

<< Comment #21 @ 04:34 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

kapca - Reply to #19

No, it's a feature so spec can't see realtime what the other team is doing and they can't "leak" important info.
When I was streaming with GTV, iirc I used to set it to 60 sec, since I mostly broadcasted CTF where the FC could hide for a long time on the same position, and spec could inform the nme team about his location or what is he doing.

edit: I checked for you in a backup, and indeed, I used gtv_delay 60 in my config.

Edited by kapca at 04:48 CDT, 31 July 2011

<< Comment #23 @ 04:46 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

KittenIgnition - Reply to #21

This is for demo playback, not connecting a GTV server to a comp. Huge difference. The buffer isn't needed because this is only 1/4 of the functions GTV actually provided (multiple clients connecting to a server for the purpose of watching a demo).

<< Comment #24 @ 04:49 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

kapca - Reply to #23

ah, I see, so no broadcasting option... sorry then:)

Perhaps it could be implemented into wolfcam then?

Edited by kapca at 04:52 CDT, 31 July 2011

<< Comment #25 @ 05:05 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

p0rt - Reply to #21

not talking about gtv and its buffer, if you want to sync demo`s out and what the thread is about you wont need a buffer, if a client ping is lagged, then the client would just resync like playing a game

if clients download missing demo`s when they connect to the server, the only real thing that would need to be synced from the server is demo frame and time

Edited by p0rt at 05:12 CDT, 31 July 2011

<< Comment #26 @ 05:43 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

kapca - Reply to #25

but you were talking about gtv buffer, since you replied to my post about gtv delay, like this:

port@#19 "thats called a buffer...."

Anyway, we should drop it, since I understand now what Memento_Mori meant, and I also familiar with the tech required for the idea.. it was just a misunderstanding from my side, ofc I know you don't need a 30+sec giant buffer for that:)

<< Comment #28 @ 06:23 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

p0rt - Reply to #26

judt a normal game server running with a si_demoserver cvar, no real tech, just the game engine and run as a server demo mod

but its QL, so it should be added as the only kind of private clientside server that can be run, and work the same as a listenserver

Edited by p0rt at 06:37 CDT, 31 July 2011

<< Comment #27 @ 05:49 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

PerpetualWar - Reply to #8

guys who started that not into quake anymore xD

<< Comment #11 @ 17:02 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

Raist

we did this with gtv before, was great :(

<< Comment #12 @ 17:04 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

Memento_Mori - Reply to #11

You are not doing it with QL because q3 GTV does not play demos? Or are there other reasons?

<< Comment #14 @ 18:53 CDT, 30 July 2011 >>

By

Raist - Reply to #12

what do you mean "with ql"?

I meant for q3 gtv of course, back in the day

<< Comment #17 @ 02:29 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

unihumi - Reply to #14

He was talking about playing back QL demos with Q3 GTV.

<< Comment #30 @ 12:55 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

Raist - Reply to #17

ah i see, well its an ok idea of course but the real deal would be to have it work with qlive itself :(

<< Comment #20 @ 04:24 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

GIEF US GTV....

FREEDOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

<< Comment #22 @ 04:41 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

Old idea, been suggested many times already, since open beta.

I would love this, though.

<< Comment #29 @ 07:17 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

The QuakeWorld QTV saves all the demos on the QTV website. If you choose to view the demo, just like with a live game stream, then this shows up on the live stream page and other players are able to connect to it and you can chat to them etc.

Unfortunately it's only the "local QTV's" (for example http://quakeworld.fi:28000/nowplaying/ - click the demo tab in top right corner) that has this and not the "Meta QTV" (http://qtv.quakeworld.nu)

Edit: I think even the "follow" command works when observing a demo. I.e. you can have 4 of the 5 viewers to follow the 5th observer, who he choose to spectate etc.

Edited by �ke Vader at 07:23 CDT, 31 July 2011

<< Comment #31 @ 21:10 CDT, 31 July 2011 >>

By

Lorfa '

I've done this before on quakeworld's qizmo + some conferencing software.

It certainly could use a dedicated utility.

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