tox use something similar.

in theory using mouse just to aim is smart, because theres no pressure put on it... i tried to play like that, feel unnatural after god knows how many years of playing with mouse1 as trigger...

on the other hand - u use ur mouse to move fwd and back, so theory doesnt exactly work here


and apparently im also faster when clickin keyboard :S

I heard a few times the contrary, i.e. that shooting with the mouse may spoil your aim. None of this has ever been proven.

While there might actually be slight advantages by using particular configurations, the variety of styles at all skill levels seems to suggest that whatever you are used to, is good, or more specifically, any presumed advantage is ininfluential compared to other factors.

Any scientific study is hard to make, and likely inconclusive. Reaction time, as any other measurement, should be done within the game in an actual game situation. Measurements should be repeated multiple times with multiple candidates in similar conditions. And even then, the interpretation of the data may still drive the conclusions wherever one wants.

While I share the raw intererst for these things, I somehow gave up on figuring anything out of them. I think aiming is more a brain matter, with ramifications in dodging, rested eyes / concentration, and mouse settings. What exactly pulls the trigger is just a tiny detail, within a mess of things.

ive tried this before a long time ago, trying to flick rail by pressing spacebar to fire is hawkward.jpeg

....and not just a little bit.

maybe u can get used to it if ur young but not after a decade of hardcore gaming.

For me, doing flick shots moving the mouse and hitting the F key is super natural. Been doing it that way for 15 years. Doing it with the mouse feels really weird, haha. I'm only 29 now, I could probably switch to WASD if I really wanted to, but I think I'll stick my ASDF setup out...

toxjq plays like this, i think gopher did too and spook from ck.

It's fine, probably helps mouse become even more stable without having to click fire on mouse when aiming too

hmm if you play fps games for 15 years you should be tearing people apart in ql but from what i've seen u're worse than me and i only started playing fps games 2 years ago when i got internet..

btw tox is owning like that for years

bind SPACE "+moveup"
bind d "+moveright"
bind s "+moveleft"
bind z "+movedown"
bind MOUSE1 "+forward"
bind MOUSE2 "+back"
bind SHIFT "+speed"

bind x "weapon 1; set fv_weapon 1" //Gauntlet
bind f "weapon 2; set fv_weapon 2" //MG
bind e "weapon 3; set fv_weapon 3" //SG
bind r "weapon 4; set fv_weapon 4" //GL
bind a "weapon 5; set fv_weapon 5" //RL
bind q "weapon 6; set fv_weapon 6" //LG
bind w "weapon 7; set fv_weapon 7" //RG
bind c "weapon 8; set fv_weapon 8" //PG
bind v "weapon 9; set fv_weapon 9" //BFG
//bind g "weapon 11; set fv_weapon 11" //NG
//bind n "weapon 12; set fv_weapon 12" //PM
//bind b "weapon 13; set fv_weapon 13" //CG
//bind mwheelup "weapprev"
//bind mwheeldown "weapnext"

I played q1 kb only using s/d for strafe keys and arrow keys to move around. When I started playing q3 I just put the foward/back on the mouse as my left hand was already familiar with binds around s/d. Years ago I tried WASD for a while and I never saw any improvement or anything so I switched back.

What's your +attack?

Doh! Thought it was there with the weapon binds, (left) CTRL. And I got +zoom on CAPSLOCK.

I am a person who experiments with everything whether I want to or not , I just can't stop my self , I taught my self to play inverted and un-inverted and switch constantly ( seem to have given me a new perspective on my mouse movement and improved my feel )
and as I did this I messed with my controls constantly and with the controls I think I found something that suits me.

at the moment I use RDFG in the same way most people use WASD I jump with mouse2 and zoom with mouse1 and fire wtih space , Basically it's something similar to noctis's controls.

I used to use a number of different types of controls and I'll go through them for you.

I started off with the arrow keys in UT99 was 4 years old then playing with what ever my brother used when he went to LAN , I think it was something like this control to jump arrows to move and mouse1 and mouse2 to fire.

and as my brother changed his controls I just used them he moved to WASD later on and used different variations.
At first we both used WASD for movement m1 and m2 for firing , space to jump , c to crouch
Then we later moved to mouse2 to move forward ASD stayed the same ctrl for secondary fire and the rest was the same of the last as it seemed to make dodging forward easily.

we moved back to the first set of WASD controls for UT2003

stopped playing PC FPS when we got a Xbox.
mind you I did play a bit of q3 and q2 before the Xbox

I came back to play q3 on the PC in 2008.

used a sort of variation of CS's default controls then with WASD and started morping round until now moving to QWES , ESDF , RDFG , TFGH , YGHJ , UHJK . WERD , ERTF , RTYG , TYUH , YUIJ with similar variations to those CS controls.and my weapon binds until early 2010 where I started playing online more often at high ping though ( lowest 125-150ms).

At around that time I Stabilized at RDFG with a to crouch , x to walk , mouse2 to jump , mouse1 to shoot, space to zoom.

I tried switching zoom and fire around and i liked it, but I didn't stick to it until later.

At around this time I started experimenting with odd control ideas that came to mind

First one was F forward V back G shoot D zoom space jump A crouch alt walk mouse1and 2 to strafe
It was decent movement felt quite nice , firing railgun was great as it provided the same stability that I got firing with space with quicker reaction times but tracking while dodging was quite odd as I was constantly pressing Mouse1 and mouse2 to dodge and it hindered with my lg and mg.

then moved to toxjqs controls for kicks which is similar to yours and was quite decent but I had the same problem of the previous controls with the dodge aiming but rather it was with the projectiles and felt quite decent with all the hitscan weapons, but It came with new issues with the weapons especially when I used the bottom row of keys which were more comfortable , the second row felt ok but binding was best at the third row but it would give me cramps and as with my previous controls I moved for left to right on the keyboard.

So yes I did use your ASDF variation it was quite good but it felt a bit crippled with the projectiles.

but with my reaction time I get similar times with my pointer finger and my thumb on my left index finger and left thumb with is around 230-260ms my best time though was with my thumb 132 ms.
I get better reaction time averages with the mouse though 180ms~ but my aim feels a lot smoother with keyboard firing which I prefer to clunky mouse firing aim my rail is better with the mouse to fire but that's about it everything else is better with the keyboard.

and I stuck to the first set of controls I mentioned because it's the middle point and I feel I can train my reaction time to be quick enough.

At the moment I use a 13 year old ratty old siemens keyboard it's a membrane keyboard, so maybe my reaction time would be better on a mechanical counterpart.

EDIT1:Also when I said crippled with the projectiles I meant that I felt a bit less in control with them but statistically nothing changed for me I was hitting the same things so it was just a matter of taste.

EDIT2:The reaction times I wrote where of your pages test or in other words they are recent if I tested myelf before I would have a faster reaction time with my index finger on the keyboard than my thumb on space.

I think LG'ing with +attack binded to the keyboard could be beneficial for low sensitivity players as mouse movement at least for me seems less restricted. But for me as a high sensitivity player I like being able to slow down my mouse down by pushing downwards and tensing up my hand. Which I find handy for very close battles because can transition from slow to fast movements depending on what my opponent is doing.

And as for flicking the mouse and shooting I think both traditional wasd and mouse1 = attack and keyboard = attack are pretty equal (As long as your not compromising movement by using the same finger to press fire and +move). But I gotta admit syncing my left and right hands to some action (eg. shooting) feels good... For me I'll just stick with what I got.. why devote so much energy for a drastic change with minimal to no results.

Although using the mouse for movement just blows my mind for wouldn't it effect your aim somehow??, but I guess it can help reduce finger conflicts :)

Toxjq uses mouse1 +forward, mouse2 +back and ctrl or C (can't remember) for attack


If he uses it, then you know it's not bad

This kind of shit is actually really good to hear. For years I've had this nagging feeling that maybe not using WASD was holding me back a little bit aimwise. I actually really like having +forward and +back on the mouse, it seems to free up what my other fingers on the keyboard are doing a LOT.

tox uses c to attack.

Anyhow it has proven to not be a bad config, but there is still something quite off about your movement

I have always used a rdfg for movement and mouse2 for jumping. But in q3/ql im using mouse1 for +attack and in qw im using keyboard to shot with different weapons(shaft +attack; space). They both work well for me since I got pretty steady hands.

But whenever I see someone ingame that shakes enourmously when they make a shot, it often almost looks like a musclecramb or just way to hard click so it will move the mouse. The best tip for them is unbind mouse1 as attack and move it to keyboard :)

If you dont have the above problem when using mouse to attack then both setups are good. Just get what you feel confident with.


QL:
/// Movement
//____________________________________________________________

bind r "+forward"
bind f "+back"
bind d "+moveleft"
bind g "+moveright"
bind space "+movedown"
bind mouse2 "+moveup"
bind z "+speed"

// Weapon Bindings
//____________________________________________________________


bind 3 "weapon 1" // Pummel
bind w "weapon 2" // Machine Gun
bind y "weapon 3" // Shotgun
bind 5 "weapon 4" // Grenade Launcher
bind t "weapon 5" // Rocket Launcher
bind h "weapon 6" // Lightninggun/Shaft
bind e "weapon 7" // Railgun
bind 6 "weapon 8" // Plasmagun

bind mouse1 "+attack"


QW:

/// Movement
//____________________________________________________________

bind r "+forward"
bind f "+back"
bind d "+moveleft"
bind g "+moveright"
bind mouse2 "+moveup"

// Weapon Bindings
//____________________________________________________________

bind s "weapon 5 4 3 2"
bind y "weapon 3 2"
bind w "weapon 1"
bind z "+grenade"
bind SPACE "+shaft"
bind mouse1 "+rock"

bind l "say [14:26:30] <sassa> When I tried to give him oral sex, I practically choked. How do I do it without gagging? Please help!"

in ql ca, now that +attack is disabled during the countdown before a match starts, you can regularly see people "flinch" the second the countdown kicks in... they were trying to shoot (probably flick at) someone :p

so yeah, using the keyboard to +attack is probably a good idea, i could never get used to it though. in qw people have several +attack binds, because of the instaswitch, didn't work for me either, heh.

I succesfully switched to +attack on the keyboard earlier this year. I use +walk on mouse1 and +jump on mouse2. I feel like it has increased my accuracy by a little bit, but if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't switch.

Since I have +zoom on shift and +crouch on ctrl, the biggest problem is that I cannot crouch and zoom at the same time. This isn't something that you do every games and I learned to play without that, but it's something to consider.

One more issue is that if you feel like playing a game that requires more buttons you are kinda screwed. Counter-strike with moving + walking + crouching + shooting on the left hand and zooming + jumping o nthe left one is a bit too much to handle.

For years I have mouse1 and space both bound to +attack. I use space for mg and lg, mouse1 for everything else.

nice idea

your aim is pretty good for your skill I would say (judging from 2 of the commentary videos)

my own take on the situation: for clicks (rocket, rail, quad-lg, initial lg burst) I prefer the mouse button, but if i know i will have an extended lg duel vs my opponent, firing with the pinky finger on the left hand removes the pressure from the mouse hand

Seems like it should be the opposite; reflex shots should be with kb, while extended, unavoidable conflicts should use mouse1 (because your [mine, OP's, a few other people's] reflexes are faster with keyboard).

Maybe my logic is flawed because of my lack of sleep. Still seems to make more sense to me like this.

I don't play QL: only defrag, so reflexes don't mean much. :D

I get better reaction time averages with the mouse though 180ms~

Well nevermind then...

Especially since: http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=2127252#pid2127252

weirdly enough when i click your link, the last line of the previous post is still visible:

I think this is a good example for the main-rule of the "right" config: What ever feels good for you is good and not anything else ^____^

:D

It's true that whatever feels good is the "best" config, but if you never experiment much then you won't know if something "better" might feel just as good, or even better, than your "best" config.

For example, for the purposes of this example, let's say that mouse2 was just all-around better for +moveup than spacebar. But you've been using space for +moveup for years, and you've gotten used to it, all the while not knowing that mouse2 is better. Moving to mouse2, after realizing it's better, can be a pain in the ass, but once you get used to it, it will feel just as natural as space, except you would also get whatever benefits mouse2 provides.

I love long sentences.

I'm with you on this. but that post was just about how my browser looked >DD

you linked to the technical problem, but it showed that line to me

I know.

esdf > *

I was playing the old keyboard only style in the doom-days. Since Quake 1 I switched to Mouse with +attack on Mouse1. I'm still using this today.
At the beginning of this year I tested with +attack on Space since I heard it might be better. Tested it for 5 months and came to the conclusion that it is not better: for me! Other players might have problems with +attack on Mouse1 instead of Space.

I think this is a good example for the main-rule of the "right" config: What ever feels good for you is good and not anything else ^____^

The problem with the reaction test u made is, that you have to release the mousebutton too until it registers, unlike the keyboardkey. ;)
(You made me almost considering binding +attack on keyboard too, after having about 100ms average more with the mouse)

I didn't think about that! I will fix it today.

It's fixed now, and sure enough, I average about the same now with kb or mouse (~275ms). Nice catch! Thanks again.

:D

do you take heavy drugs or smth o:

or is smth wrong with the pc?

average for the populace should be around 230, but gamers prly have considerably better results with this

what your average with THIS test then?

switched to crt+abyssus and most of the time i hit the green thing between 145-160 ms, with some outliers at 180 (with 60hz lcd + wmo it was 180-190 overall avg iirc)


tell me how to do it with the keyboard and i'll test it

i average only at 250ms too, but im old arlready :D

just press a key on keyboard?

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/index.php

I always have used this one, maybe you get different results

250ms, no matter what :(

now i get it, u overlooked the reaction-test linked in the OP.

TOX aims with the mouse, he uses right click and left click to move left and right and shoots with a keyboard key, he is the best aimer in the world.

He is not the best aimer ffs.

His rocket aim is LOLZ and hitscan aim is not everything -.-

Aim i not all about rockets either.
quake live weapons:
Rail: hitscan
LG: hitscan
MG: hitscan
SG: hitscan
Plasma: not hitscan, but tox owns with it.
Rocket and nades, not hitscan but he is good with them.

double air rocket on cooller on lostworld....

tox aims rocket fine, he just doesnt fucking need to use it since his aim on other weapons are stronger and easier for him to use

humm, about that reflex training tool you have, i would suggest a moving particle, that you should click when it pops up on the screen. The particle should move at different speeds , different paths! it would be awesome man!

http://missionred.com/

I recommend reflex and reflex_2 if you want to messure your reflexes. You wont get a lucky click which will give you a better average result than those click tests. I was once pretty good at the reflex_2 test now I suck :(

pretty cool games :D

mouse back AND forward simplifies your moveing a bit.

especially with wasd like setups you have trouble playing with the treshold of fine back-forward dodges.

the main reason for thinking about it is because you have 1 finger vs. 2 finger for back/forward.

may be easier.

If the idea about having +attack on keyboard helps tracking aim then would it be fair to say that having +forward and +back on mouse is the same because you would still be pressing mouse buttons while aiming. In fact wouldn't it hurt tracking aim more since you just hold +attack on mouse while in a lg fight but be pressing mouse1 and 2 repeatedly the other way? So has anyone tried not binding anything to the mouse at all? perhaps that is theoretically more smoother. Just my two cents worth.

i think noctis used to have mouse only for tracking, but im not sure.

ye, zoom on m1, jump on m2, +attack on space iirc

QWES here, space to jump

tfgh, you have more space for binding shit