he should try reading esr.

I would email/phone him if i could and tell him what's up, but cant reach a bitch

its ok the last thing ql needs is someone who acts like a prepubescent three 6 mafia member pretending to be a spokesperson

swag

ROFL, you think i act like this in real life? haha, such a sweet kid.

no you're probably a pussy in real life (:

hahaha

totalled

[-]

"The game is an entertainment success"

its entertaining... but a success? hardly, could have been much much better by now.

Registered: 3 Mar 2002

QL was never meant to be second Q3, deal with it

It was a supportive comment to yours.....

at best it would be a waste of time for him to dig through all the shit slinging, at worst he would outright close the project

eh you are right, but I still think if someone who had followed esr for say 5 years was involved with the creation of qlive from the start (someone who has influence) things MIGHT have been different.

I thought arqon was involved at the beginning of QL?

Also, several pro players (iirc particularly fox) were providing lots of feedback when the game was in closed beta, and several of them said to "do everything in syncerror's to do list" as they agreed with the vast majority of it, so I don't think reading esr would have done anything other than see the elite-end of the community's distaste of their actions thus far.

I think the main problem was not putting enough manpower behind the game.

Thats what I meant with 5 years. Listening to pro players is all good but after you have designed most of the stuff and you are already beta, I bet they went "these are all good and well but we have to overhaul the stuff we already did/these will take too much time, we have a deadline until x date to release".

Most of the games goals and overall design is usually determined before you start coding anything, usually what you envision then will be coded in and doing changes / adding new stuff (even trivial stuff) will take a much longer process compared to doing it from scratch. This is why ppl sometimes will just get rid of a buggy design and start anew.

Anyways, tldr version: preparation and knowing BEFOREHAND what pros and the community in general wanted may have resulted in a much better qlive, hence the esr comment.

well, the czm comment i think well sums up the 'corrective' course of action, and i think it was there at the initial stage? I think everyone was focusing on the in-game stuff initially, while brackets and other game-extraneous stuff was more key to the development. now, this is the bandwagon everyone is jumping on. communities are like that, swayed by frugal notions without necessary any logical backing and out of context. i'm pretty sure they knew what they wanted to do with QL from day one, and reading opinions of anyone on ESR would have just confused them with the range of conflicting random crap. and of course, there is this idea that when you are working on a revolutionary product, the consumer doesn't even know how great it is, until after the product comes out.

The gtv example comes to mind..

I bet they knew what their game was gonna be from day one, yes. But it sure did not involve gtv or some other variant to enable ppl to follow the scene, which is so important for quake (especially newbies to draw in). Q3 had it, it was succesful even though it was too complicated tbh, but thats no excuse for a game studio.

your example truly is great, in light of what i've been saying =p

i think GTV is by far the best way to spec quake, but I really don't think its important at all for the larger adoption and even retention rates of quake, as those that prefer GTV to stream, are already customers, while streams are way more accessible to general public.

if they spent more time on site usability and figured out strategies for retaining and easing advancement of new players, figured out the fun factors at that level, etc, we would have a multiplier effect based off of popularity, which would in turn finance the features more hardcore players enjoy. but actually, first of all, marketing is extremely important, and we haven't seen almost any from them, slasher made some good posts about that. i guess they tried to rely on word-of-mouth strategy, but it doesn't work without the new player satisfaction.

all the things you mention work best at the beginning of the product though, an half assed effort and you get yourself low sales/low users, marketing yields less results later on unless they do something drastic/change significant amount of features.

marketing must go on continuously, and yields results continuously, half-assing it at the beginning is totally recoverable, it just means the half-assed efforts were wasted

I don't agree with you that marketing will yield the same results as the beginning would, don't feel like trying to persuade you though :D

no need to persuade me, just answer:
does anyone know what quakelive is?
is there a difference between someone who doesn't know about QL now seeing an ad about QL and trying the game and seeing an ad a few years ago?

both are equal yes, but the difference is what happens when he delves deeper. Right now he'll run into disgruntled messages on the web, or at least a general tone that suggest that the developer did not deliver exactly. He might join the game but then he will be faced with the current mind set of the users even faster, then he will probably say "its been 2 years and they have not delivered their current customers, why should I be a customer myself" and move on.

At the beginning you market something new, there is still patience in the customer to see how things unfold, to see the potential. Its like advertising to sell your new cruise ship's tickets. You fail to deliver several times, hit a few icebergs here and there, then you decide to advertise again.

long comment, what I am trying to say is advertising is only a part in the whole marketing of a product, if you blemish the product's reputation or it has just lost it's "wow" factor it won't be as effective as before.

i guess you give the people more credit than i

close the project? best thing that could happen at this point.

if they're not going to listen to the community, they might as well. I just hope they dont' attempt another quake. id has proven itself a failure.

wow this explains everything. No wonder they're so out of touch... i

being ironic? what exactly does it explain?

EVERYTHING

I really doubt you'll see anything huge for QL until RAGE is out in early October, pretty sure Syncerror and Sponge are the only two people even working on QL right now, the rest of id is way out of touch with where QL is at.

Todd is on base with the rest of the interview, development on RAGE took way too long, Christ, what are we looking at for tentative release dates for Doom 4 and Quake 5, 2015 and 2018? Fuck that.

I'm quite surprised that there wasn't any info about Doom 4 this Quakecon.

I would have settled for some concept art of the demons, at the least. But yeah, two years in a row they bullshitted with it.

well .. not realy a surprise since id has to hype up rage and not doom4. Alltho Carmack mentioned some details in this years keynote Q/A. Like running this game on a higher fps and things like that.

lower fps

fuck

Well I mean, 60 on rage and 30 on doom4 sp ( I think I remember him saying that 60 would be nice for mp though )

i was hoping for something in the 120hz line :P

You're hoping for something that was already irrelevant back with each quake episode release.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

I'm talking about a business perspective, not what you'd do with your oc'd p2 to get 125fps in q3.

It's id, the people who always say, "it's done when it's done." What did you expect?

indeed nothing big before Rage is out, but we might see some resources switching back on QL after...

this interview still rings a bell to me as Quakelive was totally absent from any id interview I had read this past year and even before, so perhaps there is a light in darkness :)

I hear diablo III is making progress too. They just don't have resources to spare for unprofitable project as ql.

trololololo

My life have no sense without Quake Live.

By the way. they should bring servers to Brazil they have a ton of players waiting for servers and much more potential players behind if they bring servers in that location.

That would be $$$$$$ for ID.

india plz

Maybe not necessarily that he should read ESR; maybe just listen to what pro players say. This, for improving the overall experience of the game. For gaining popularity...hire better marketing people :))

marketing isnt all...

the game needs buffer zone for new players who never touched quake, so they wont be raped in first 200 matches... also big tutorial section with REAL practice maps for strafe and rocket jumping... plus some hints written by pr0s, so ppl wont waste time praccing unimportant factors of game eg becoming plasma master :|

This. Other than this strange idea that the way to promote QL is advertising on the site itself, there has to be a "noob mode" or something. If they aren't willing or able to pay people do it, they have a community full of people who would be willing to help with some of these things.

They might end up making things worse than they already are in an attempt to "repair" their business model.

the man has got the biggest bicepts out of all the CEOs I know, so he's probably going to deliver on the promises you frivolously attributed to him

that's why Arnie is doing so well in California!

Advertising IN the game, ON the website really doesn't mean that much when the # of people looking at the site is decreasing. Try advertising the game OUTSIDE of its own little community. I don't see ads for QL itself anywhere. You don't need outside ads ON QL, you need QL ads everywhere else.

Oh, and you need to make it worth advertising outside itself, not to the pro-gaming niche. Also, catering to just what pros think might be good for gameplay, but listen to what the community wants for casual play- casual players is where the numbers you want lie.

2gd can fix ql easy.. but it wont helpp now too late.

the business model we use in our f2p game + competitive features work without changing the core of the game (selling power or hats...and i'm sure Quakelive could use the same. I'm not overly keen on this subscription model. but I buy it cus its quake, but i'd rather play for free for fun, and buy stuff like avatars, titles, audio packs and just fun and enjoyable stuff.

Earn points by playing, or buy points which you can spend on items or servers.

see u know how to do busines

lol.. i stopped playing bloodline champions because it has like 25 ppl total in america and europe is crap too. It's got all the nifty features.

Nice tutorial, good characters and gameplay, ladders, built in chat for the browser and you only pay for champions + get to try a new champion to test play every so often, but there is still 1 problem:

STILL NO FUCKING PEOPLE PLAY IT.

Quite a lot of people here in Europe.

I'll always have fond memories of Toddh raging in CTF games and banning people that are trying to stack teams :D

He really does love Quake, so maybe he really will do something with Quake Live. Whether it's something current players will like or something silly to rope in some TF2 players remains to be seen.

Anti-cheat.

Cp9.

And advertise via playboy (Win a weekend to Playboy mansion!)

Success.

Someone needs to hire this man for having those ideas.

Who would of known that those 2 or even 3 simple things would surely lead to success!

Keep em coming Martel.

Haha hardly.

Just tap into what sucks in every male (literally) - women!

Sex sells:

http://inventorspot.com/articles/ads_prove_sex_sells_5576

they removed hunter and kept bitterman. Apparently the people at id think only homosexuals play their games.

I think the quote "you can make money with money" applies, however if u recreate an old game, don't use any money to advertise that it's there and then expect it to be a money making machine is not exactly how things usually work.

The ingame advertising is ofcourse not working when the visitor count is too low, expensive subscriptions added to it just to get old "new" content without having anything like a ladder system or inbuild cup system, or online prize money cups hosted by ID for the subscribed users.

It's funny how the people in ID keep saying that they're working on stuff and really want to improve everything, however nothing ever happends and there is no sign that anything ever will. Ignorance is bliss.

cg_makeBlueThingGreen 1
cg_squaredCircles 1

1. Make it free-to-play, all maps and all mods.

2. Add ton of additional features that can be bought with money, eg. gtv, more skins, more statistics, server creation etc

3. Make a big patch which changes a ton of stuff, like Quake Live 2.0

4. Release it and run few big add campaings for it

5. Get tons of money and be happy

1. Make it free-to-play, all maps and all mods.

This is gold, i would sure play in pickup chanel. I would play zotac jeesports sure alot ppl would play and it would be popular imo.
But i don't have CC and i dont have oportunity to pay.

he loves his ponytail more than quake

I put it simple... AU/NZ has been doing a great job in rising the Quakelive awareness till MSI,Razer,Vox & many more sponsers...

However,

Theres another part of countries in SEA has been sending email to ID for server setup with the help of local ISP sponsering...

Guess what...

ID reply saying, We do not have the manpower to maintain current servers...

Guess it GG for Quakelive afterall...

They might as well send out an email that says

CBA

let Rage finish, and i strongly believe that we will see better days for quake live.

denial much? did they produce ladders? did they produce edge? Did they announce or pruduce anything at quakecon? oh wait, no, they only talked about rage and carmack quoted ql as a business failure. Ya, welcome to reality dude.

[img1]

haha. +1. Someone's gotta do it. If we can't rely on ordus/syncerror than we gotta take charge. That's what i've been saying for over a year now. When more of you start helping out, we can finally take care of the problem with or without punkbuster. If you keep attacking me however... well then nothing will change.

sigh

The only help you can get is from a psychologist.

Best thing ive read from him in a long long time :D

ladders + tournaments built into the browser of a game that is made for these things creates a defined niche for advertising (computer hardware/energy drinks/new games)

ex. the weekly ZOTAC cup -- if ladders + tournaments are built into the browser, companies such as zotac get a TON more exposure than just a weekly tournament advertised on esr

Dude, people have been asking for ladders this entire year expecting it at quakecon. They are obviously not working on it or something would have been announced. Just face it, it's not going to happen in quake live. quake 5 maybe, but not ql.

1. Make all maps free.
2. GTV (all can view, pro can create)
3. Demo player with Pause/Stop/Rewind e.t.c. for subscribers
4. New and old gametypes: QuadHog, Deadzone, Domination, Last man e.t.c.
5. Ladders ofc, maybe only for subscribers

0. Make it 100% free. (Charge only for useless shit like avatars or w/e)
1. Proper ladder. (ICCUP style?)
2. Proper tutorials (movement, aim, settings, ITEM CONTROL!)
2. b. Make a newb mode where you can see the items above items or smth. Item control is the most important and non-obvious thing.
3. Finish competitive features, remove bugs. (GTV, servers, custom maps, mousebugs, etc)

Then you can add less important features like mode gametypes or maps.

If you add 1&2 to CPMA/CPM, make it free and do some promotion it's gonna be superb.

It's a good interview and, while everything he said are just words, I think having the support of somebody like him - in terms of position within the company - is crucial. It may easily make the difference between the game being shut down, or another business model being tried out.

For those complaining that nothing is going on, I think it's a matter of scale. When he says they want to do stuff, it may be within the next 12-18 months. That may be huge for gamers that feel they should get something monthly (as they are paying a monthly subscription), but it is probably not much for people planning the company strategy.

Todd Hollenshead played shirtless Quake Live with us. You're all jealous

WOO WOO WOO!

i hate this Todd guy

"Carmack's QuakeCon keynote mentioning that Quakelive isn't the expected success."

That must be some kind of a bad joke: If you put 99,9% effort in Rage and then the other 0,1% into QuakeLive how in the hell can be it a success?. Come on... tell me the next one.

Advertisement system. That's what they are referring to as failed, and factors external to id played a crucial role.

true, but he also mentioned thru out the keynote about the lack of resources (manpower) for anything else then rage. I mean u cant blame them... the game is in dev for 6 years... ofc its gona be every hand on deck, especiaky now... i just hope after the release not every1 goes to doom4 ... gief method!.

Imagine this... whole id team for a month on QL ... monster update :P

Imagine this... whole id team for a month on QL ... monster update :P

ya but we don't need another 100 cvars...

It was still executed pretty poorly, for example the video ad before the game usually took ages to load, then showed a few seconds and ended abruptly, so you couldn't even tell what the hell they are advertising and there was literally no way to get to product/company website (and probably it hasn't changed since then, I don't have a free account to check). In-game ad space was never used, and the banners on main page usually advertised id/Bethesda own products, so they produced no external income, etc.

You are 100% right. Focus is a powerful thing and quakelive hardly received any focus, all their proper attention is on Rage atm.

"The game is an entertainment success, so now we have to figure out how to make the business model work."

See Riot Games' business model for League of Legends, oh wait you're just making shit up and don't really give a damn.

step 1) steal league of legends ideas
step 2) sell pony tail to black women for weaves
step 3) win internet

I don't believe him. Actually he's the guy that I dislike the most in iD for quite some time now. Hopefully I'm wrong about him and he's valid but I doubt it.

why do you dislike this person?

He knows what the quakecon audience is made of : fat virgins.

Inb4 someone links to lilie's thread.

isn't lillie syncerror's wife?

I agree. For me he's almost as annoying as Danny Dyer - the most annoying thing on earth.

Anti Cheat

1. When Rage is out, ID focuses all resources on QL, and thrusts the world with the huge ID penis of power, represented by the game that results!

Tried to read. U CPIK INGLISH UNGOOD

Tried to read. Realised you are fucking retarded

umad?

No.... Yu BWAIN JUS N WUK NUT UNGOOD

New gametype! something new and refreshing that we dont know what it is yet.

q43a last man standing with 8 respawns, loosers can go take a shit and have a smoke while others are still fraggin it out, and be stuck on spectator until next match starts

"But, if you want to impress your friends, it’s not about showing them how much you can score in Angry Birds. It’s running your iPad 2 with RAGE HD on it."

He's right keeping people playing and coming back for competition with friends isn't impressive, its all about HD GRAPHICS ON THE IPAD!