\o/

why not both? :)

yeah why not both? just creates pointless hostility between the modes 8(

and we could also add team duel, FT and CA !

acting like an idiot on purpose makes me cool!

Cool idiots ftw !

Because as it will be a pretty strict and well organized cup that runs in less than one month, it will take some manpower from the admins as well. One cup is easier to organize.
There are also many nations whos TDM and CTF team are pretty much the same or at least key players are the same. We do not want players to have to choose and mix up teams etc.

well ok then... just do ctf, tdm has a shitload of tournament as it is+lan events. do something for ctf.

your vote will count as much as any other vote in the poll, thank you.

So no ENC?

guess not

wow, after all this time, a new nations cup, great news!

TDM!

TDM TDM TDM TDM TDM TDM

scrolling text? h4x!

Attached Place Image: 83908-wtf.jpg (8KB)

le fu :(

attentionwhore.

lol.

braggin with my html skillz since 2011, you got me

h4x

your vote will count as much as any other vote in the poll, thank you © xou

I think considering how much momentum TDM has gained recently both online and LAN; for both player and viewer perspective it has to be the only choice for this tournament.

Simply making it CTF because "loads of cups for TDM already" would be silly, TDM is winning the mode battle for a reason, it brings in more viewers and is more interesting to watch.

Plus there's a lot more effort into pushing TDM right now.

cast this shit

If its TDM we will stream. If it is CTF nobody watches so no real point in having any stream.

Nobody watches? You're showing the exact same behaviour as those people dropping Quake for LoL. CTF hasn't had any support lately and it needs it desperately so that we can get new CTF maps. ESL should run both anyway.

Hardly anybody watches our CTF streams, Dis doesn't like CTF, so he wouldn't stream it. Doesn't mean other people can't stream it, if they have the motivation to promote it.

Totally agree, its kind of what i meant with the momentum thing, everyone that's in to quake still right now is picking up TDM, be it players or tournaments.

I just think we need a couple more maps!

@ raw: TDM is only winnin the battle because there has been lan tournaments, ofcourse more people is willin to play that mod, bring lans for CTF (DH?) and im sure it would get alot of more viewers also. tdm is boring to watch if its not toxic or noctis playing :)

I got more viewers for my JK2 stream then the ESL CTF cup we did. Go figure.

JK2 is total shit as well, so that's a bad sign.

So why does CTF get such bad viewers on streams?

I'd mainly put it down to sporadic coverage, theres no regular streams for ctf really.

Perhaps, Dis and yourself have pretty much sealed up the market place as far as TDM streaming goes!

I suppose we won't know about viewers and CTF at a LAN as no one has picked it up. To be honest though even if CTF was on, i can't say i would be interested in the slightest!

You could ask yourself why CTF isn't being picked up for LAN tournaments? Even quakecon went TDM.

You could ask yourself why CTF isn't being picked up for LAN tournaments? Even quakecon went TDM.

Quakecon took TDM because DH tdm was a sucess yes?
Regardin viewers. LAN + Money bring more ppl to the mod and viewers.
Before it was CTF that was the main mod and none played TDM.
Even now when TDM is active ill say CTF is equal, just more div1 players in tdm.
If there would be new ctf maps + alot of cash on a ctf lan in .eu it will destroy tdm. Just like it happend other way around: )

"QuakeCon took TDM because DH was a success" within reason yes and again yes there are more active TDM teams in division 1, with quite a few decent teams just outside the EuroCup bracket making for a bigger pool of players, which of course will also bring more viewers. With that said, why wouldnt you want to pick TDM for the ESL nations cup?

TDM was always the main mod in Quake 3, CTF had a brief spell in Quake Live which ended earlier this year but has fizzled out quietly and has been firmly replaced by TDM again. The following TDM has both from players, views and event organisers would tell me TDM is the sensible choice for any cup.

Btw next LAN? DH, next mod choice? Probably TDM, whats everyone going to want to be practicing? You guessed it.

I think with the points you made above, you have already conceeded it should be TDM :-)

id tried to kill TDM and promote CTF from day 1. We had 15 min time limits and 12 second gun spawns in TDM. We had only 3 map pools and the major event (Quakecon) id chose to support CTF. They split the public play with two rule sets (normal and pro). It just became silly.

All the original map development went the way of CTF and yet still TDM came out on top. I think that tells you all you need to know about which mode is superior.

The changes they made back in beta are why i stopped playing, we barely finished the uk.tdm beta NC if you remember due to lack of interest. Having two sets of rules for 1 mode was stupid but i think they hoped to bring new players in by making TDM easier, it failed.

I am really pleased that TDM has since recovered and is now back to being the number 1 mod :)))))

what map development? there hasn't been a playable ql ctf map since they first added ironworks in beta, and there hasn't been a "new" playable map since last qcon update of p1 and p5.

stop sayin shit, ctf was equally forgotten about by id as tdm with the difference that ctf still is and if it wasn't for dreamhack tdm still would be. from my pov, only thing that ever mattered to id from birth of ql was duel competitions.

Originally CTF got the two new maps of Siberia and Ironworks, TDM got a changed DM7 which nobody wanted, and was stuck with DM6 and luckily the great map that is DM14. We had 12 second gun spawn settings and 15 mins time limit. CTF's rule set was essentially what it is today.

CTF had Quakecon and all the online events that TDM had, including cups like Quad that shared $1000 btween the four teams that signed up.

The first new map TDM got was Hidden Fortress, which lets remember still gets strong reactions against it to this day and is in essence not dissimilar to the tempo you find on both dm7 and dm6. It was only after the ENC that we had any new maps to play with which was relatively recent.

The point is not that CTF is supported, it isn't, in fact its a joke the level of support each of these modes gets from the developers. The point is simply TDM was in the shadow originally but was still able to keep going despite having to fight a harder battle then CTF does today. Now TDM is the major team mode that we can build on and promote into perhaps regular LAN events, why would we suddenly support CTF which as draven says is not really in a suitable position at present, and possibly scupper both modes chances of future competition.

In an ideal world I would like LANs that include all the modes of play, but it wont happen if we switch randomly between two modes constantly.

And this pretty much sums up and justifies why we should select TDM over CTF for this cup.

Fwiw i am not trying to upset any CTF players i know enough and play with one in ek, i would like to see everyone get their choice in game mode for the cup but if its a choice of one or the other then its been pretty well justified by various points made in the comments here that it should be TDM.

unless CTF gets some proper maps we shouldnt do it.

what I thought.

Just simple question how we going to get new maps if nobody would play ctf? its fucking closed circuit.

people dont play CTF cause the maps are horrible.

Maps arent horrible, most of the maps is from q3 and its not bad. And if people wont start playing CTF we wont get new maps anyway...

People didnt play TDM either in begin when we just had dm6 dm7 dm20 dm14 ... later we got the good maps like deepinside and 2 new maps... and then TDM got alot more active... with good mappool and new goodmaps... your point?

this.

Purely from a viewer perspective i'd agree. I cannot sit and watch a CTF stream because its just so dull. The maps... Japan over and over again, whyyyyyyyyy.

At least in TDM they did something to fix this by removing the stuff we played to death in Quake 3. Maybe if id stepped up and arranged for some new maps to replace some existing, CTF might get a bit of interest again, though i still can't see it replacing TDM any time soon.

you're calling ctf dull to watch? :D

of all the spectator unfriendly modes, even duel with bad commentators doesn't come close to tdm.

You just need to look at the viewers on the streams to see which mode is enjoyed by spectators the most, it aint ctf.

And yes, usually you join to watch a ctf stream and its the same 2 maps played religiously.

Some with TDM, same 2 maps over and over again...

??

moppz for german captain!!!! +1

TDM <3

Its moment to push TDM, one of the best things about TDM is that duelers have less problems to adapt than with CTF. And theres some nice rivalry. I like CTF but everything seems to indicate that its time for TDM.

I think the main problem with CTF is that most of the "pros" have never been interested in that mod and viewers don't want to see players that they don't know . TDM is a lot better anyway for competitive play because of the luck factor involved in CTF and the horrible maps.

tdm ftw