I think u should get Samsung 2233rz

too small ! he should get the LG (like i did) or the ASUS, they're better than the benq :)

Disregarding the price, how are they 'better'?

They both have less input lag.

Yeah, well those figures vary GREATLY.

Some tests say the LG and BenQ have zero input lag. Some claim the BenQ has around 4ms.

Some reviewers claim the Samsung has around 12ms.

For example, www.flatpanelshd.com claim that both the LG and BenQ have zero input lag, and their reviews are usually decent, unlike Digital Versus.

reviews are overrated. most important info comes from pro players advertising hardware and benq is obviously the best deal in this case.

Have a + for sarcasm.

i played with samsung 2233rz and benq ( summmer / winnter DH). For me, samsung was better.

i remember you said that. your opinion indeed is valid since you are not advertising any product. also stermy mentioned similar experience with both monitors as you.

Are you talking about the BenQ XL2410T specifically?
Or another BenQ model?

You mentioned "summer". This BenQ wasn't out yet last summer, if that' what you meant.

perhaps it was like this:

Dreamhack @ summer - Samsung
Dreamhack @ winter - BenQ

and I'm sure he means exactly the XL2410T or else he would be an idiot imo ^^

maybe I am an idiot :))
Check what was monitors in DH winter (it was benq 120hz, but I dont know model).

there is only one BenQ capable of 120 Hz kthx : )

as I thought.

thing is, if they didn't bother to configure every single monitor through the osd the picture quality is bound to suck and the overdrive will produce some trailing. out of the box the benq does not look very good, as i said below.

the Acer isn't good out of the box either, changing color management profile to eco fixes nearly anything though.

I believe in you, I talking, what I saw.

apparently linkin did that on every monitor

i'd actually trust flatpanels over digitalversus aswell... best idea would be to play-test the monitors yourself.

can you give review on your LG ? i cant find any review on LG, only unboxing...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lg+2363d+review

Thers is the flatpanels hd review that is quite detailed.
e: forgot, but the tester's calibrating values are full of shit. Colors looked ugly with them.

I'll just add that compared to my crt (viewsonic pf97+) i don't feel any difference in reaction time. The refreshrate difference (i used to play at 160 hz) is a bit noticeable, but that's not really a problem. I hit the same accuracies ingame.

Colour wise, it's not quite as good as the crt (except for the black, but my crt was so contrasted that anything greyish would be black :/). I don't have the space to put them together on my desk so I couldn't try to get the same colours on both.

The screen mat, which is kinda nice (better than my crt !) but LG are fucking dumbasses and put a glossy frame around it, so you don't get reflexions from the screen but from the frame.... also the power / osd buttons are tactile (and flat), without backlight: you can't possibly find them in the dark :/ and as the frame is glossy, you'll let huge fingerprints all over them when setting up the screen.
There's an option to disable the power led, which is nice, but then again retarded engineers forgot to disable it aswell when the pc is sleeping/off ... so the led is off when the pc is working and blinks when it's off. Which is awesome when you put a movie while going to sleep, then you get awoken by the fucking blinking led.
Other than that, the screen isn't adjustable in height, but it isn't a problem for me. It is tiltable, and enough to let me watch movies from my bed.

tl,dr: frenglish + good screen with shit frame

random question a long way down the line - im looking at replacing at 22" crt with one of these at the moment, can you check and see if it can do 120hz at various resolutions??

im not sure my graphics card will be able to run 1080p all the time in everything, so would like the option of 120hz at non native resolution??

down the line a new graphics card is in order.

last time i checked i had 120 hz on any resolution

i think you should go away.

Damn you started building new PC!
New mouse DA 3.5g, Mx518 and now Benq gaming monitor!
I am waiting for new thread of gaming keyboard from you!

:DDD

next up:

mousepad!!?!?!

steelseries qck heavy. It's like hax

Well, I trashed the DA already. :(

I shall replace the MX518 with the Spawn mouse. (I hope)

My CRT monitor is on it's last breath.

But I plan on to continue to use my old AMD64 3200+ with a full GB of some slow-ass RAM. :)

Not more needed for UT and Quake, tbh.

I checked my NVidia 6800GT, and it does seem to have that dual-link DVI output that is needed for a 120Hz flatpanel monitor.
Pretty lucky, or I would have had to invest in new mobo, new RAM, new CPU, new video card and even new PSU, and possibly new chasis.

"Well, I trashed the DA already. :("

how did you manage that?

he disassembled not carefully enough and broke it

Correct. :(

I expected it to be as sturdy as the Logitech mice I've messed with over the years.

the DA is actually a very easy mouse to disassemble and good designed inside (it's hard to mess up). try to disassemble the CH - that mouse gave me nightmares - disassembling it is tricky to say the least, but assembling it is even worse.

I didn't have trouble disassembling/reassembling the DA. But that damn cable that connects the two boards broke off.

Unless you have some very, very tiny soldering equipment, I don't think I can save my DA. :/

yes, the monitor can be purchased without the mouse and yes, in my opinion it's awesome.

the default configuration is bullshit though. the fps mode is a joke (all it does is put gamma at 100% which is terrible) and the overdrive ("ama") is horrible.
once configured everything is very very good, this is the first tft i use so my only comparison is 10 years worth of playing on crts.

i can't complain about much except the price which is far beyond what i would've wanted to pay :)

there's a short discussion with paradoks/renzo on the quakeworld.nu forums who both share my thoughts and they play an arguably faster game than me.

sneaky edit: the backlight bleeding is annoying, there's no buzzing sound though which is something some of the other tfts seem to produce.

my osd settings are:

PICTURE
brightness 45
contrast 50
sharpness 4
gamma 2.2
color: R 93 G 89 B 97
ama off

PICTURE ADVANCED
picture mode standard
(dynamic contrast 0)
instant mode on
pbp off

...and i had to turn off gpu scaling in my gfx card drivers for 120hz to work.

I have backlight bleeding (really extensive and therefore annoying, at the bottom) with my Acer HD235HQ too :/

yup, the benq has it at the bottom too, pretty annoying unless you mostly play/watch in fullscreen.

One weird thing is I can't adjust to playing ET with things being generally bigger (4:3 fov 95, 16:9 fov converted to 111), so that I keep on playing in 4:3 aspect ratio. I don't mind the way it is dealt in Qauke Live though (extra view on the sides, fov remains unchanged).

i don't mind the 16:9 and use it for quake eventhough the benq has these profiles for 4:3. i like the added screensize tbh :)

TN panels are crap but sadly no IPS/PVA/MVA with 120hz or OLED monitors are available yet so we have to live with that kind of shite :/
TN panels are also terribad because of the colour banding and poor colour linearity (noticeable in films and pictures mostly) but that's not a problem for Quakers since they use picmip etc anyway :P

i wanted to buy this monitor, seemed good at first. but apparently the backlight bleeding is way too annoying, plus most settings on the screen are completely useless unless u dont mind extremely poor colour reproduction :/

srsly how hard can it be for them to make a good gamers monitor that doesnt endup looking like it can do 16 colors maximum or w/e

true, but you have to modify the color settings on almost every monitor as most produce shit colors out of the box.

i know, but this one still isnt a monitor id want to buy, too many issues making it a step backwards from an old CRT

sadface :<

OLED panels would be the solution, if they are ever released and they manage to increase their life span (right now it's way too low, like 10000h or something).

120hz IPS wouldn't be bad either but they're taking their time...
If your CRT's working fine just stick with it that's for sure.

problem is my crt is getting darker and darker, worst contrast ever :P

just love beeing forced into horrible technology

lol yeah I was forced into getting a LCD because I'm moving quite often these days and I don't have cooller's muscles to carry a CRT around :(

once an ET legend claimed: muscles = aim

means you have no aim and hence you don't have to go to LAN : )

:D
so true but I would still gladly make the effort of carrying my CRT around if I had a car, it's only in the train/bus that I find it really problematic.

Did you ever get to play/use this monitor? Or are you going by what others/reviews said?

i read many many reviews and take an average. and so far every single LCD monitor seems to come with a ton of bad points. so before u tell me to 'buy one and then comment', theyre reviews, they exist to tell ppl what a monitor can and cant do. and they make me sad everytime a new monitor review is out :(

What I'm sad about is the general lack of 120Hz monitors out there in general.

There's a like zillion new monitors coming out each year........ yet there's a total of, what?, 10 or so 120Hz screens in total. Pff.

7 tft + 1 ips for ridiculous price

They only produced 120hz for "active 3D" reproduction, but since there is "passive 3D" seems that some brands stopped manufacturing them, like LG. Now they can get 3D working with 60hz, so will be harder to get 120hz LCD monitors unless they're gamer-specific oriented products.

backlight bleeding is fixed on this version T iirc

I actually got myself the Asus VG236HE monitor, and im happy with it. Kinda bought it on impulse while also knowing it had decent reviews, my crt was just too crap to wait any longer ^^

Why not wait and buy the new Benq xl2420t/TX?

It apparently got great reviews too.

Yes, I heard it solves the back light bleeding issue and some other stuff..

I kind of want it but every time I try to play wide screen I always revert back to 4:3 crt

You can adjust the screen to 4:3 format, I think.

there is no back light bleeding with the latest firmware of the xl2410t nether.

is a monitor "updatable"?

Really? I didn't know the monitor had firmware!

This might change my decision.

you can't update it yourself

yeap, as far as I know there are 2 different firmwares out. 003 and 005. 005 fixed the backlight issue. you can't update your firmware by yourself. but u can check your current version by pressing some button combination.
i have this monitor with the 005 and i didn't see any overdrive trailing or what so ever. it runs just fine, i don't miss my crt at all.

i plane to buy it so i m really interrested in your opinion about this monitor. Does the input lag is better than 2233rz? How are the colors etc

I never had the 2233rz so I can't compare. But I had a 120 hz CRT before. I let it run with the stopwatch test against that CRT. I took about 50 pics with AMA and Instant Mode On. None showed input lag. Yeah I know this method is inaccurate. But when my camera doesn't notice any lag how would I ever be able to notice it? The only thing I noticed when I switched the monitor was that my shaft and my plasma became slightly less accurate. But I think that's only a matter of getting used to. Now that I have played several hours with it I am almost back at my CRT accuracy which is about ~ 35 % in tdm.
Out of the box this monitors comes with the FPS preset, which has shitty colors. I guess this setting is for games like CS to see perfectly even in darker corners. Just switch it to the Standard or sRGB preset and you have as decent colors as every other modern TN panel.
In summary I don't miss my CRT at all. I enjoy the big space to work and browse, watch movies and play my fps games. I don't think anyone's aim will suffer significantly under this monitor. The guys at dreamhack played with it and showed some amazing aim aswell.

I think I will wait and see how the new Benq xl2420t/TX compares to the XL2410.

Err, what?

Backlight bleeding is a manufacturing defect and can go away (or get better/worse) with TIME but certainly not with a firmware update or anything like that.

I received my XL2420T a few days ago and for the moment the only "issue" i noticed is the osd randomly closing itself when i'm configuring my screen.

It only happend about 3 or 4 times over 4 days of use but i guess this can be fixed with a firmware update. Other than that, everything is just fine, really! Default presets aren't that great btw.

The next firmware update? How long will that take?

I don't know, i heard the monitor is not available in countries like France atm so i guess benq will wait for those countries to sell the product before you can download a new firmware update.

I might be wrong but i think it will take at least 3 weeks.

God damn, that means....I want have a decent lcd gaming monitor to buy in my country for at least one more year. The sadness...

So has anyone else got XL2420T already?

still waiting for the TX version ..

Like someone said earlier, TN panels (such is the case with this model) are not as high-quality as IPS panels. I recently switched from a model with TN to a model with IPS and there is a difference in picture quality and color display.

I was actually wondering why it is so cheap (compared to other 120Hz models) and this is probably the reason.

I would wait for something better to show up in the panel tech before spending my cash just for the extra Hz.

The monitor is over $330, how exactly is that cheap?

The XL2420T model looks better.

I thought all 120hz panel's at the moment were TN's

Kinda offtopic but does anyone know whether there will be a decent ips 120hz tft in the near future? I don't really want to buy two monitors but my crt just drew his last breath today and I just can't play on a 60hz ips panel. I start to rage and don't enjoy it a bit :(. If there is no 120hz ips in the next 2 months I'll have to get a tn but cba to spend 350 bucks on a shitty tn panel :xxx

nope

Well then samsung 2233rz or do you know a better alternative? Fullhd would be nice but not really necessary as I only use it for games :|

Fucking crt why WHY

soon perhaps, LG just released some very fast IPS panels, now we just have to wait until Dell puts them into a new model and prad.de tests it:)

Just read about it but I don't really trust lg in that regard :P. A real 120hz 27' won't sell under $x000 :(.

Guess I have to swallow the pill and get both an ips and tn monitor and after 6 months I'll be raging about the new up and coming monitors ffs

LG makes horrible monitors, but they produce very good panels.
I would be OK with a 100Hz DELL IPS tbh (well NEC or EIZO could be better, but they are too expensive).
I won't say I would drop out my CRT, but a 100Hz IPS would be tempting:)
I have a 75Hz IPS for more than a year now and that's already enough for everything except online first person shooters, and I would never give a cent for a TN crap.

i wonder why they limit LCD to 120hz i mean what s the deal with this? Why not try and achieve highest refresh rate..

The pixels on LCD display are never switch off between two frames, so there is no flickering because of display refresh, and you simply don't need that for anything else than high fps in games, so 60Hz for each eye was enough to form a "standard".
There are higher Hz figures achieved already in TVs (400Hz+). While it's true that those are only interpolated frames, the screen is still refreshed at a high rate, so it's possible.

I see two main reasons while we don't have such monitors already.

1, There was simply not enough demand for a 120Hz IPS/PVA monitor to speed up the development like how it was with TN panels.
Only a very few of us care about quality and efficiency. The story with TN vs IPS/PVA is kinda the same like how it is with fps games: the mainstream plays COD while we play QUAKE ;)
No matter how many times you tell them that the 2ms TN equals 5-6ms in IPS terms + you also get more than 16 colors, a usable viewing angle and less input lag, they won't understand.
A year ago, 90% of the LCD computer monitors were based on shitty TN panels... that's a market share you just can't ignore:(

2, For 120Hz refresh, you need less than 8.33ms (1000/120) true panel response time (without RTC / overdrive applied) which was too expensive to produce until now...

but it's gonna happen very soon